S05.E07: Nimue

[LizaD]

I admit I was too distracted by the pretty of Merlin and Nimue to care about the timeline. Now both are guest stars I could watch unlike obnoxious Merida. I also liked their story enough if I don't think about the plot holes big enough for an 18 wheeler to drive through.

  

 

It's a good story, except there is a minor retcon: the Apprentice said Merlin bound the darkness to a human soul that could be controlled with a dagger in the Season 4 finale.  Turns out, the darkness came from that human soul, and all Merlin did was make the dagger to control it. Oops!  Mickey must've gotten forgetful in his old age!

But yeah this really bugged. The apprentice also said something like there was a huge epic battle and he couldn't match the power of the DO so he had to tether it to some human. Talk about false advertisement.  Merlin getting tethered at the end also really really bugged.

 

Must say I liked the end scene with the cult of DOs. But man how awkward is that meeting? Besides Emma, all of them killed someone standing next to them to gain exclusive entry to that club. It's probably too much to ask that we just get an episode of DOs anonymous hashing this out.

[Bluerang1]

Best believe that we were all expecting to see Blue's face under the mask after the first reveal. But nope it was some rando guy. Did anyone notice how Nimue looked stunned, like "I know this person" stunned when she saw Fortegan's face? I thought they'd elaborate on that, maybe not yet anyway. I wonder who he's related to.

 

Arthur is so annoying. How tall is the actor? The character screams short man syndrome.

[pezgirl7]

Finally a good episode after two clunkers. Zelena and Regina actually didn't annoy me. I like those two in moderation. I didn't even mind Regina's shivering timber pirate line. Hated that Snow was so dumb, but I guess someone had to be. And of course I loved the CS scene, and Emma's I am not nothing line gave me chills.

I'm dying to talk about the spoilers in the sneak peeks! Does anyone know why that thread always get closed? I think only once were a few posts accidentally made in there that should have gone in the episode thread.

[scarynikki12]

it was awesome to see Emma battling Nimue in her head—and winning!

 

Such a great moment!

 

I really liked the backstory for Merlin and Nimue.  The timeline discrepancies HAVE to be on purpose at this point because there's no reason to go from specifics to generalities otherwise.  I have no idea what the purpose could be, mind you, but I feel there must be one. 

 

Once again Snow being called Mary Margaret annoyed the crap out of me.  The only thing I can think of is that we're supposed to believe that Regina cast a secret new curse on Snow just before the shenanigans with Jefferson's hat in the 2A premiere, in which she loses part of her brain every time someone calls her Mary Margaret.  So, after 3+ seasons of this, she's now as dumb as a hat.  If they were to start calling her Snow again I'd imagine her brains would grow back. 

 

I hadn't realized Henry was absent until I came here but it certainly explains why I enjoyed the episode so much (Snow being called the wrong name notwithstanding).  Henry free episodes are rare but always the best.

[tennisgurl]

Oh, and I do have to call bullshit on Snow falling for the fucking *sick prisoner* gambit. Come on Snow, no way are you that stupid! Thats prison guarding 101! Then she gets captured by Zelena, of all people? I refuse to believe Snow could be that lame. 

 

Also, damn it Zelena! Curse your sudden but inevitable betrayal! In retrospect, they probably should have seen that coming...

[Randomosity]

I refuse to believe Snow could be that lame. 

 

It really is a stark departure from the Snow we met in season one, pre-Charming, pre-Emma, pre-curse, isn't it? I guess I don't stop to think about it all that often, because somewhere along the line, it because less Charming/Snow for me, and overwhelmingly Captain Swan. But yeah, what we saw today makes it glaringly obvious that she's SO not the Snow of the earlier seasons. Perhaps that's why they keep calling her Mary Margaret instead, because it would be an insult to the character of Snow that we once knew...

[mjgchick]

The Snow White who realized Lancelot was actually Cora no longer lives on this show. She died after she killed Cora.

Maybe we'll get an arc where MM gets sick of being called MM because she's lost who she once was because of the curse or having the baby or something because damn she's not my Snow White. I'd take Kristen Stewarts Snow White before this one.

Edited November 9, 2015 by mjgchick

[TwistedandBored]

I admit I was too distracted by the pretty of Merlin and Nimue to care about the timeline.

 

 

Me too. The story was generic but they hired actors that actually made you feel it and care about them in one episode. 

 

I loved JM's "I have never been nothing." moment. It was just totally intense and made me sit-up. You go girl!

[Curio]

Henry free episodes are rare but always the best.

 

Amen!

 

Are we supposed to assume that the Belle/Merida adventure took place during the events of this episode? Why didn't the writers bother name dropping one or both of them during this episode? And what happened to Lancelot? Wasn't he just recently hanging with Merlin, Hook, and Charming in the woods after the jail break? Did the four guys ever realize Merida and Belle went missing? What was the point of Merlin, Charming, Hook, and Belle rescuing Lancelot from the cell if it didn't even lead to anything important? Why not leave Lancelot's dungeon rescue for this episode when the gang actually had a legitimate reason to storm the castle? Or why not steal Excalibur during their first prisoner break in last week's episode? Or why didn't they bring Lancelot along with them in this episode to retrieve Excalibur because he knows the castle layout better than anyone? Hadn't he been sneaking around the castle for a while before Snow discovered he was alive? 

 

So many questions...

[KingOfHearts]

 

Oh, and I do have to call bullshit on Snow falling for the fucking *sick prisoner* gambit. Come on Snow, no way are you that stupid! Thats prison guarding 101! Then she gets captured by Zelena, of all people? I refuse to believe Snow could be that lame.

Snow, being a bandit who has been captured by Regina multiple times, should know better. Did they not restrain Zelena somehow? Couldn't Regina conjure up some handcuffs or something? I think everyone on the team got a share of the idiot ball for leaving her with the person who totally believed she was a midwife and spared Regina from execution to terrorize another day. Zelena's "meltdown" made me LOL though.

 

 

Maybe we'll get an arc where MM gets sick of being called MM because she's lost who she once was because of the curse or having the baby or something because damn she's not my Snow White.

This seems pretty unlikely since its Snow herself who is insisting people call her MM.

Edited November 9, 2015 by KingOfHearts

[Curio]

Snow, being a bandit who has been captured by Regina multiple times, should know better. Did they not restrain Zelena somehow? Couldn't Regina magic up some handcuffs or something? Zelena's "meltdown" made me LOL though.

 

They wouldn't even need magic handcuffs, just some simple non-magical rope would have sufficed. 

[KingOfHearts]

 

They wouldn't even need magic handcuffs, just some simple non-magical rope would have sufficed.

Didn't mean magic handcuffs - just meant that Regina could conjure some normal ones up with magic. Edited original post for clarity.

Edited November 9, 2015 by KingOfHearts

[mjgchick]

When Snow was pregnant with Emma she was a bad ass and the result is an even bad asser child. Ever since she had the new kid however I'm scared the child's going to be even more useless than his parents.

I did cackle when Zelena had her meltdown. She was speaking half truths about it as well when she talked about Regina getting everything she wants. I almost felt like the writers used Zelena to mock Regina because some of the audience do see her as whiny as Zelena was in that scene.

[Lexx]

It's a good story, except there is a minor retcon: the Apprentice said Merlin bound the darkness to a human soul that could be controlled with a dagger in the Season 4 finale.  Turns out, the darkness came from that human soul, and all Merlin did was make the dagger to control it. Oops!  Mickey must've gotten forgetful in his old age!

 

That bugged me a lot for some reason.  But this show makes slight retcons on a near constant basis, so you'd think I'd be used to it by now.

 

Something else: we saw Merlin's apprentice talk to him via magical means after Lily was eggnapped.  If he could do that, and appear to Emma later on, why couldn't he appear to young Arthur to give him some guidance and steer him down the path of non-douchebaggery?

[MaiLuna]

How amazing Emma's development has been that she was able to defeat Nimue with self-love. Amazing and beautiful.

 

CS are precious. I know a lot of people were talking about Hook's old new ring, but when he took the chain off, it looked like it was long enough to not be seen in his very deep cleavage. So it could've been there, just covered. He really sank his hand to get it.

I want Bandit Snow back so much. Zelena was fun but Arthur was meh.

 

I wanted to care about Merlin/Nimue but even from the start I could see that something was off with her.

 

I'm glad the plot is moving along but we won't get full answers probably until the midseason finale or the episode before. And I can't wait to get them. I don't think I've ever been this interested in trying to figure out what happened/will happen on this show.

[Leia1979]

I love it when we focus more on Emma. Maybe it's because I've grown to dislike many of the other characters (I'm looking at you, Mary Margaret). I enjoyed the majority of Emma's scenes.

 

I knew* (okay, had a strong feeling) Nimue was going to be the Dark One, although I actually started to doubt it for a moment when warlord dude "killed" her. I'm getting a kick out of everyone's various flashbacks inspired by this episode (I haven't thought of the first slayer from Buffy in years!). I had Indiana Jones on the brain from the start of this episode and thought Nimue looked a little bit like Karen Allen (Marion from Raiders of the Lost Ark). And then we went to "You can spend the rest of your life with me, but I can't spend the rest of mine with you" (from Doctor Who) with Nimue and Merlin. 

 

Nimue's special plants at least explain that field of long stemmed roses Emma and Hook were in a couple weeks ago. I was so confused by that.

 

I also thought Zelena's lovely dress was reminiscent of Giselle's curtain dress in Enchanted. I want that fabric. Apparently it has magical powers that made Mary Margaret gullible and Zelena easily able to bind an incredibly powerful wizard.

Edited November 9, 2015 by Leia1979

[YaddaYadda]

I wanted to care about Merlin/Nimue but even from the start I could see that something was off with her.

 

At least there was something consistent with the whole Arthurian legend. He loved her more than she loved him, she got immortality out of it.

 

When she was holding the heart, about to crush it, it was clear that she had nowhere near moved on from what happened to her family, and her village.

[KAOS Agent]

Oh look, an episode that advanced the plot. How novel. This is the episode I've been waiting for for three weeks now. No stupid teen dating, no random adventures in Not!Scotland. The actual Dark Swan story moved forward.

 

- So Captain Swan is adorable and Hook is totally going to die. They don't even use anvils these days, now it's like a 50 ton concrete slab.

 

- Once again, Emma is doing everything and getting shit done while her family sucks and can't do anything right. At least Snow got the idiot ball this week and not Hook.

 

- Zelena's double cross could be seen coming from a mile away. You're planning to steal her baby and lock her up for the rest of her life, why the hell would she help you, Regina? Idiot.

 

- The casting people find the most beautiful actors to be their guest stars. I really liked Caroline Ford, so I hope she sticks around for a couple of episodes.

 

- Emma rejecting the Dark One's power was the best. What a great fuck you to the Darkness.

 

- I thought it was really interesting how intensely Emma was working on that dreamcatcher. She didn't even respond to Merlin. No wonder Hook was so worried about her. She's clearly not all there and both Emma & Hook know it.

[kili]

Did the Neverengers stop for some fish and chips and a nap while in Camelot? How exactly did Zelena get a chance to get ahead of them, make a deal with Arthur and have Arthur have enough time to find the spell?  And Zelena had to drag an unconscious or struggling Snow with her the entire way. Seriously, what happened?

 

Or did Zelena play charades with Arthur before they all left the castle and she's just been pretending she's had the cuff on for quite some time? If she didn't really have the cuff on, she would have magicked Snow into unconsciousness instead of making her hold the idiot ball. 

 

Merlin is such a total complete dumbass. Why did he write that binding spell down? What good could ever come of that?

 

So, is it evil to burn a village or not? I can't tell with this show. 

 

Nimue was pretty awesome. Emma is even more awesome. The timeline is whack.

 

Are the Dark One's stupider than Merlin and Mary Margaret put together? All they have to do is not lose control of the dagger and they don't wind up dead. Looks like we had a streak of Dark Ones that only survived a few weeks to rack up that many of them in the 200 years (or -100 years) until Rumple. Well played you idiots.

 

Arthur kind of has a point being annoyed with Merlin (who still has not taken the time to explain himself), but he is still being a douche. 

Edited November 9, 2015 by kili

[KingOfHearts]

 

- Zelena's double cross could be seen coming from a mile away. You're planning to steal her baby and lock her up for the rest of her life, why the hell would she help you, Regina? Idiot.

And what's funny is that I didn't get any angrier at Zelena for doing it. The heroes had it coming to them.  I honestly don't blame her for using the better option for herself and (what she thinks is for) her child. If I had to watch Regina get all the toys every day, I'd probably make a deal with Arthur too for my freedom. So yeah.. thanks Zelena for continually exposing the stupidity of the main cast.

 

She's still a bad chick, but at least she has half a brain. #TeamZelena

 

 

So, is it evil to burn a village or not? I can't tell with this show.

If you're not a Regina. Only she can exercise true, righteous judgement on evil peasants who can't see the goodness in her heart.

 

 

Vortigan or Vortigern is part of Arthurian Legend. Not random.

He wasn't anything like the Arthurian legend counterpart though. They could have sticked any name on that part. He was a ruler, not a masked serial killer.

 

 

I still don't understand how the Holy Grail in the shape of a sword can "cut away" his magic.  I was curious to see how he would attempt to do that.  I'm assuming this would not be stabbing himself, since even Merlin can't be that stupid.

It would have made more sense if he forged it as the only weapon that could kill the immortal. That way, when Nimue died, he could die as well. Then that would explain why the Dagger could kill Dark Ones...

 

 

And why would Merlin in a tree be micro-managing miscreant Authors throwing Lily down a portal?

When he could have been stopping Arthur from becoming a tyrant? Nope - Lily is more important.

Edited November 9, 2015 by KingOfHearts

[Camera One]

I thought that was a pretty decent origin story with Merlin and Nimue, but this thread pretty much whittled it to Swiss cheese, LOL.

 

Kudos to the casting people, though, since I was reasonably engaged in the flashback story.  I figured Merlin would be dumber and more gullible than a doorknob, but he really did have the endearing deer-in-the-headlights look down pat (cue the "Even now I would live through it again" line... sure, submit generations to the tyranny of the Dark One would be worth it for a few years of bliss with Nimue).  I still don't understand how the Holy Grail in the shape of a sword can "cut away" his magic.  I was curious to see how he would attempt to do that.  I'm assuming this would not be stabbing himself, since even Merlin can't be that stupid.  Ditto for how Dark Emma is supposed to "cut away the light".  

 

Why didn't Nimue also turn to sand when she drank from the Grail without permission?  Surely, that random slave in the beginning was more worthy than her.  So one murder is a total gateway drug... "If you kill [Vortigen], you will commit untold atrocities".  I thought the show said anyone could come back from making mistakes like murdering villages?

 

Why was Regina so sure that Arthur didn't know any magic.  Did she forget how he mind-controlled Snowing?  Why does Merlin keep having spells and magical objects that enable villains to do their work?  He even has a spell for someone to put him under their control with that sword that *anybody* could do?  When the good guys need a spell, the ingredients are soooooooo rare, but when a baddie needs a spell, there isn't even a subplot to find the ingredients.   So basically, this means no one actually needs to have any innate magic.  

 

Why do they always need to have Snow be such a dumbass?  It was obvious as hell that she would fall for Zelena the moment they left her behind as guard.  The writers just despise her, don't they.  The farewell scene with Emma and Hook was very nice, but they couldn't budget 2 minutes for a goodbye scene with Emma and Snowing?  

 

Merlin said "first me and my Apprentice made sure the sword was safe, and then created a Dagger, to control her".  None of that explains why the Apprentice is so clueless.  And what about the Hat that could have allowed the Dark One to cleave themselves from the Dagger?   What the hell?  And why would Merlin in a tree be micro-managing miscreant Authors?  But he didn't think to have the Apprentice let Arthur know the tip of the sword is pending?  Oh right, he was too busy taking a bus trip with Lily and chatting it up with August in Phuket.

Edited November 9, 2015 by Camera One

[KAOS Agent]

I just remembered my favorite part of the episode. The please spare me look Arthur gave David when he started yammering on about being a hero. That was the moment in which Arthur was me. 

[Coconuts]

So, I need this explained. How could Nimue drink/touch from the Grail without poofing? She was already at her village, so all of the old anger would be there then if that's the excuse for her going bad.

 

Second part, you know the Grail-whether cup or sword- poofs people. Why defend it? Tell them not to, if they grab it, oh well. Problem solved, no use of magic required on your part.

[InsertWordHere]

So, I need this explained. How could Nimue drink/touch from the Grail without poofing? She was already at her village, so all of the old anger would be there then if that's the excuse for her going bad.

I know we assume it has to do with someone's worthiness because that's how it goes in the legend, but maybe it's something else. Merlin's pal didn't seem that bad. Rumple, after all, was able to pull Excalibur out and I refuse to believe it's because he's a hero. I really hate to use this as a reason, but maybe "the gods" wanted Nimue to drink from the cup.

 

Second part, you know the Grail-whether cup or sword- poofs people. Why defend it? Tell them not to, if they grab it, oh well. Problem solved, no use of magic required on your part.

Or perhaps leave it in a room with a bunch of other shinier, more ornate cups that will kill them if they choose poorly?

[Camera One]

Merlin would probably say that's a big no no since it taints one's soul.

[Wishing Well]

So if Nimue's one kill turned her into the axis of all evil, the first Dark One, the one who created dark magic...

Hey Regina how's everything going for ya

[thuganomics85]

So, first, the Dark One Dagger was part of Excalibur.  And now it turns out both of those things were created from the Holy Grail.  Totally can't wait to find out what kind of well known relic help create the Holy Grail!  I'm sure if they put their minds to it, they can keep this thing going on forever!

 

That said, I thought this episode was much better then the past two.  Sure, it had it's normal Once issues; wonky time-line, characters being idiots, etc.; but there was actually movement in the story-line, the flashbacks actually seem significant and not just an accuse to watch an obnoxious redhead yell at people, and the episodes ends on a note that makes me curious about what is to come.

 

The Merlin/Nimue flashbacks prove that ones without the leads can work, as long as the acting is good and the plot is relevant.  I thought both actors did real well (only recognized Nimue/Caroline Ford from a guest spot on Sleepy Hollow, so I was pleasantly surprised how much range she had here), and I thought the outcome made sense enough.  Nimue need for revenge caused her to become the First Dark One, despite Merlin's warning.  Now, it still doesn't explain why Merlin has been so cagey these past few weeks, but I'll take wha I can get.

 

Loser of the week easily goes for Snow.  Not only does she fall for the oldest trick in the book, she goes down like a wallflower.  Zelena's kick wasn't that hard at all! When did you get so soft, Snow?!  Still, the entire gang should learn that next time you bring along an enemy that hates your ass, and you don't treat her any better, maybe you should leave more then one guard.

 

Thanks to Zelena, Arthur can now control Merlin with his sword, so I'm sure that is going to be the reason why Emma still ends up on the Dark Path, despite their victory tonight.  Kind of sucks, since it was nice seeing Emma get a brief victory.  Poor Emma.

[Camera One]

It's almost impressive how the writers can make an episode with half the narrative about unknowns work.

 

Or as in the case of last week, *not* work.

Edited November 9, 2015 by Camera One

[Camera One]

What's with all the dumb callbacks to the dumb flashback scene at the movie theater?  In the middle of the all-evil ceremony of evil dark hooded Emperor Palpatine wannabe's, Evil Emma stops and goes, "Oh yeah!  Merlin told me not to do this!"  Do A&E&J think that theater scene is *that* clever to recall over and over again?  Or is there an actual point?  They already had Emma go, "Oh yeah!  You were in the movie theater!" to Merlin previously.

Edited November 9, 2015 by Camera One

[KAOS Agent]

I was thinking that this episode did a lot to make a bit more sense of Merlin and his stupidity. We've all been assuming that he was this wise and powerful wizard when really he was just some escaped slave/prisoner who was given great power and tried to muddle his way through with dealing with it. He's not portrayed as particularly bright, just earnest and well meaning. When Nimue went all evil on him, he really didn't know how to deal. His actions with the hat and the Author and the scroll and all the other stuff don't make any sense because he's not real wise, more naive and trusting in his visions.

 

Then there was that whole part about how that kind of power weighs on the soul. He was acknowledging that having all that power really does suck and Emma's got a double dose now as both the Dark One and the Saviour. He was just as trapped by his power as Emma felt as the Saviour. A couple of normal people tasked with way too much and no help as to how to deal with it.

[ImogenLeFay]

I miss Snow White... In season one, she would have pulled that prisoner trick herself, only convincing. But I can't blame Zelena, I totally get where she's coming from. How come she was the most annoying person ever when she was the main villain, the most obnoxious plot twist when she was revealed to be Marian, and now that she's only a side character she's becoming one of the most entertaining characters on this show?

[andromeda331]

Besides Emma, all of them killed someone standing next to them to gain exclusive entry to that club. It's probably too much to ask that we just get an episode of DOs anonymous hashing this out

That would be so fun!

[kili]

Why didn't Nimue also turn to sand when she drank from the Grail without permission?  Surely, that random slave in the beginning was more worthy than her.

I don't think it was the grail alone that turns people to dust. I think the rock is involved. Emma could not touch the sword when it was in the rock, but she could easily pick it up once it was pulled. When we first see the grail, it is sitting on a rock and I think that is the same rock the sword becomes embedded in. The other slave never managed to pick the grail up from the stone. Once Merlin did pick up the grail, anybody could. Otherwise, Merlin should have gone on the mission to retrieve the sword as well.

 

Are we ever going to learn what Merlin intended Arthur to do with the sword? We know Merlin is disappointed, but maybe if he told Arthur a few details, he might actually calm down.

[ElectricBoogaloo]

When Merlin went to drink from the Holy Grail, I was hoping they would go Angel style and it would turn out to be Mountain Dew. So I already had the Buffyverse on my mind and then Emma had to go on her vision quest and do the hokey pokey so she could meet the first Slayer.

 

Loved Zelena rolling her eyes while the Scoobies tried to plan a way into Arthur's castle.

 

That scene where Merlin stood around while Vortigan stabbed Nimue was oddly staged. Merlin didn’t have to use magic to help her and could have physically tried to do something about it, but instead he just stood there dumbfounded and did nothing.

And then after Nimue fake died, Vortigan just very politely stood there and watched instead of snatching the sword off the ground immediately.

[Mrs OldManBalls]

Emma screaming "I am not nothing! I have never been nothing!" is quite possibly my favorite moment in the entire series.

 

Yeah, that was pretty great.

 

 

Loved the episode but I gotta say, dark hoods and glowy eyes is never not gonna be Jawas.

 

Lol! I knew it reminded me of something, but I couldn't figure it out. Thanks! 

[Curio]

Any chance we'll ever see that deadly cauldron of acid Arthur cooked up in a later episode? Or was it just a random menacing plot device we'll only see in this episode?

Edited November 9, 2015 by Curio

[chrisvee]

Nimue reminded me of Kate from Lost. Took me a bit out of things. Hard to get invested in a love affair of one episode but acting was good. Loved all the Emma bits but...her family and friends are dolts. I wish they didn't have to write the characters to behave stupidly just to make the plot work.

[kili]

Still, the entire gang should learn that next time you bring along an enemy that hates your ass, and you don't treat her any better, maybe you should leave more then one guard.

Too bad there weren't any other trusted people like Granny or Grumpy or Happy or Doc who could have helped Snow guard Zelena.

[sharky]

OK, this is going to bug me now, but a day after and I'm still thinking about it. Where the hell did that ring from Hook come from? Totally random. Totally totally. I thought we would at least get a bit of an explanation for that one but nope. Even a simple, "I carried it in my pocket with me," or some sort of magic pocket that's bigger on the inside (that's what she said).

 

And I was so into the episode I missed just how idiotic Snow was to fall for the prisoner gag. It's my own fault for reading this thread. But really, for as good as this episode was, there were some glaring holes that will probably just be hand waved away. Oh well.

[YaddaYadda]

It's almost impressive how the writers can make an episode with half the narrative about unknowns work.

 

Or as in the case of last week, *not* work.

 

Last week was also a case of who gives a bleep about Merida?

 

Any chance we'll ever see that deadly cauldron of acid Arthur cooked up in a later episode? Or was it just a random menacing plot device we'll only see in this episode?

 

I think that might've had to do with Guinevere's reaction. I'm not sure she's going to take much more. I wouldn't be surprised if she didn't steal the sword from Arthur, and let Merlin go.

Edited November 9, 2015 by YaddaYadda

[mjgchick]

Guin even while enchanted knows Arthur ain't shit. He had crazy eyes all episode long. Also I guess we now know he knows Emma's the savior. God why did they have to make the Nevengers stupid especially Snow. They couldn't have think of another way to get Zelena let go?

[kili]

They couldn't have think of another way to get Zelena let go?

They could have had Zelena start working with Arthur sooner (she couldn't talk, but she could write) and had him remove the cuff during the first couple days they were in Camelot. Then, Zelena could have been faking it all along that she still had the cuff on (In the past, I would have said that Zelena wouldn't have been able to avoid gloating for that long, but then the Zarian plot happened and we found out that Zelena can stick to a plan and avoid Mwahahaing for months). Then, she could have magically knocked out Snow and re-joined Arthur. 

 

It makes far more sense that could happen then Zelena managed to beat Regina/Hood/Charming/Hook to the throne room, win his trust and broker a deal before they showed up. Bonus: Snow doesn't look like an idiot and ruin the entire "Save Emma" plan herself.

Edited November 9, 2015 by kili

[YaddaYadda]

Normally, Zelena would just turn around and stab someone in the back. Imagine now that she's pregnant, with the threat of losing her baby being held over her head. I don't even know why they would bring her with them to Camelot in the first place. Nurse Ratchet could've kept feeding her broccoli, and Brussels sprouts.

[coops]

Perhaps the Zelena/Snow scene would have been better if Snow hadn't fell for the sick prisoner trick and just rolled her eyes but then straight after fell for the 'what's that over there in the bushes' trick while Zelena conks her on the back of the head. Then at least Snow wouldn't look as stupid just overly cautious.

I'm wondering where Granny and the dwarfs are in all this? They made a big dong and dance about coming to be involved in the adventure and they are... totally not involved in the adventure.

[Delphi]

Good episode, I guess. Mostly for Emma since everyone else was stupid. I really wish they would call Snow Snow and that she could be a badass again.

I loved all the Emma stuff.

I enjoyed the apprentice being dressed like Wart from the Sword in the Stone, all I need now is an obnoxious sugar bowl.

Timeline makes absolutely no sense.

I'm glad that I figured out that Nimue was the original dark one. It was all sorts of obvious but still handled very well.

[mjgchick]

No wonder why Emma is a "I save myself" kind of gal.

[Curio]

Also I guess we now know he knows Emma's the savior.

 

And there wasn't any huge reaction to the news, it was as if everyone in Camelot was like "oh yeah, obviously everyone knows that." So why the hell did we have to suffer through a bunch of meaningless Regina-has-to-pretend-to-be-the-Savior scenes if it didn't even amount to anything important? Was it literally just an excuse to give Regina dance lessons?

 

Compared to last week, this episode was such a breath of fresh air, but they still need to fix a lot of the plot holes. A simple line that says Lancelot went off to search for the missing Belle and Merida would have gone a long way in making some sort of connection to last week's random adventure.

[HoodlumSheep]

I'm kind of disappointed that we haven't seen the dwarves or granny for 3-4 episodes in the Camelot flashbacks. And no, a blurry image of Granny in the background doesn't count. Why bring them along at all? They once again promised to shake up the status quo with them tagging along, but it's like they don't exist. Why bring them along in the first place?

The dwarves or Granny could have easily come along to help watch Zelena.

Heck, Granny would have never fallen for Zelena's trick.

[Primetimer]

Also: Emma continues to struggle with her dark side, Zelena makes funny faces, and Jesus Christ enters the OUAT mythology.

Read the story

[BoPeeps]

Not a happy camper here. Fair warning! Not positive.

Still a nonsensical mess with pretty costumes. Or should I say nonsensical "Holy" mess? Bringing in the Holy Grail and organized religion history of any sort was hugely disappointing and jarring to their whole fairy tale/happy ending theme.

Too much vapid and directionless baloney packed in this sub sandwich of the series plot direction. They have almost totally obliterated the whimsy and hacked to pieces their own self- definitions of good and evil, light and dark as series writers. At some point concept must be supported by cohesive tale telling, not just random one liners buried obscurely in the script.

They have sucked the power and previously built up awe of Merlin and made him insipid. His "power" is sporadic, random and very uninspiring.

Arthur is in the running for biggest scenery chewer of the series and his insane, over the top Zelena-esque obsessive egomaniacal ranting has whacked the Arthurian Legend until it is unrecognizable. There is nothing clever, witty or remotely believable about the way the writers have approached this portion of their twisted story telling.

The whole Zelena inclusion is ridiculous and mocks the (continually disrespected) intelligence of the viewing audience.

Amid brief moments of intestinal fortitude and impressive character building lines of dialogue, where the better of the actors shine, they are presenting an immature mish mash of disingenuous wtf-ness. Strong remnants of the power of love are still showing in their best relationship-Emma and Hook, but others have fallen into an Arthurian cauldron of hot molten magic underwhelming goo.

They don't even try to hide their lack of story telling skill anymore.

Apparently, I am too old for this dishonest Shit. It isn't just eye-rolling, it is ... sadly, becoming a bore.