S09.E07: The Spock Resonance

[TheOtherOne]

Sheldon struggles to keep his emotions in check when he is interviewed for a documentary about Spock; Penny and Leonard make a surprising discovery; Wolowitz and Bernadette get into a disagreement about remodeling his childhood home.

 

Poor Sheldon.

[ZuluQueenOfDwarves]

Please no Rostenkowolowitz baby, show, prettiest of all pleases! Please let Howard happily play uncle (a role for which his lazy ass is better suited than dad, anyway) to his friends' eventual kids, and let Bernie remain gloriously childfree. Some women truly don't want children, and we are really happy that way, and that reality would be greatly appreciated if it were reflected on tv ever.

[AshleyLyn]

I'm a Bernadette when it comes to kids. Don't want them. I don't hate kids or anything, but have no wish to get pregnant and have them. And something like this would normally be discussed in a drama really, then the decision to end the marriage in a heart rending episode would come followed by half of season of wailing and all that. But in this show, it looks like Bernadette's wishes may get compromised.

 

I get it on Howard's side though. He wants a kid to not only be a father, but also prove in some way to his father, he wouldn't be a deadbeat and run away. Unfortunately he's married to a woman who really doesn't want kids but because she loves him may brook a compromise that won't make her happy really. Kind of sad. 

 

As for the other part of the show- Sheldon's meltdown... I thought Will Wheaton and Sheldon were friends now? Why would he want Sheldon's meltdown on the documentary??? *shrugs* 

 

I liked that it looks like Amy's moving on. Or at least attempting to. Nice to see her on a date and actually getting a kiss without having to argue for one. 

[CinAZ]

yeah, I felt bad about Sheldon.   Now Amy will see the 'Spockumentry' and know Sheldon was going to propose, and that is how they are going to get back together.

 

If a baby shows up, the show is over.

[QuelleC]

I think they have shown Bernadette's viewpoint.  A lot.

 

I didn't quite get what Adam and Will were setting Sheldon up for...I get distracted during the long commercial breaks.

 

Thanks for starting the thread for this episode.

[Spartan Girl]

Damn, Leonard Nimoy's son looks just like him!

This was a good episode. I know I'm probably in the minority that feels sorry for Sheldon, but whatever his faults are, his reaction to seeing Amy with another guy was heartbreaking. And I thought his attempt to propose to Amy was not stalker behavior; he obviously saw it as a logical way to put it behind him...and yet the fact that he didn't storm up to Amy and the other guy was very mature of him.

The documentary parts where he explained how Spock was important to him in terms of using logic to deal with bullies also gave his scenes death. I'm glad the show used this as a way to pay tribute to Leonard Nimoy.

I wonder if Amy is going to find out about the ring. I highly doubt Penny will be able to keep it a secret.

[greekmom]

As for the other part of the show- Sheldon's meltdown... I thought Will Wheaton and Sheldon were friends now? Why would he want Sheldon's meltdown on the documentary??? *shrugs* 

 

At a convention way back when, Wil Wheaton was saying how he went to a workshop about the type of roles he should play and roles that are a bit of "jerk" suit him. He and Sheldon do better as semi-friends than full on friends or enemies.  

I loved the fact that Sheldon went to Amy's to propose. I agree with an above poster. Penny will let it slip asap.  

Howard and Bernadette can always get a foster kid. That way they are old enough but don't need to be in every episode. Kid would be old enough to kind of fend for themselves but not enough they don't need guidance.

[anna0852]

I was very pleased to see that when Bernie's dad was giving her the speech about how wonderful raising kids is, that she fired back that he didn't do the work. Her mother did. She has very valid reasons for not wanting kids. I do think putting the blame on Howard was pretty bad though, especially considering the chilly relationship between him and his father in law.

 

At the same time, I can see that Howard genuinely wants to be a parent and would be a pretty one. Unfortunately this is something they can't compromise one. Not that I think they'll go there but I think the relationship ending in divorce over the issue would be pretty realistic.

[CleoCaesar]

This was probably the first episode I've seen where Sheldon was, well, normal. Yes, a little offbeat, but a normal dorky dude who's not much different from his friends. Not the obnoxious, cartoonish jerk he is 99% of the time. It was very good to see.

And I'm glad to see Amy is dating. She even got a kiss, and NOT after waiting 3 years.

The Howard/Bernie subplot was nicely handled. She really doesn't seem to want kids, but I think she will compromise. It's not ideal (by far) but it is realistic.

Good episode. Probably my favorite one this season so far.

[Kanner]

Oh Sheldon. Though it was painful, it was nice to see a "normal" reaction from Sheldon. I am glad the ring came out. I liked hearing about Sheldon and Spock.

For a minute I thought it would turn out that the napkin was fake. When Penny didn't want to talk about it. That would have ruined one of the best moments in this shows history. I was so happy it just led to the ring.

Regarding Bernadette and children - if she really doesn't want children I am totally ok with that. But it seemed her reasoning was more about having to carry the load herself because she didn't think Howard would help out. Also, why wasn't this discussed before they got married? Wanting children is a pretty big thing not to be on the same page about.

[Jediknight]

Wil Wheaton is usally good, and Bernadette's dad is usually good as well, and both delivered in this episode.  You had to love Bernie's dad starting to walk back in the kitchen as Howard was talking about having sex with Bernie, and just getting the hell out of there.  Speaking of Howard, Simon Helberg may be the MVP of this season, he's hit all his stuff perfectly.

 

Everything with Sheldon was fantastic.  And nice little mention of Sheldon changing.  He knows Penny and Leonard had sex on the couch, but he still sits there.  That's not the Sheldon of old.  All of his comedic bits hit their mark such as the stories with his brother, Aquaman protecting them since 2012, and hiding the Pop Tarts.  And the dramatic stuff he nailed perfectly, which shows another way Sheldon has grown.  He went to propose to Amy, saw that she was on a date and smiling, and he turned around.

[Rhetorica]

Too much Rom and not enough Com for me.

[flyingdi]

I remember Bernadette saying that she didn't want kids before they got married. I though Howard just assumed she'd change her mind.

[okerry]

This show is now so crammed with commercials that the story itself has been carved down to bare-bones nothing. All of the throwaway jokes and witty dialogue exchanges - the things that gave the show its charm in the first place - have been scraped away to allow more time for commercials. If they keep ruining things like this, there will be no show to carry all those commercials in the first place.

 

And Sheldon, you'd better fight for Amy or you will lose her. She already thinks that you don't care. You don't win the girl by walking away at the first sign of competition.

[Unclejosh]

Amy's date really looked like Stephen Merchant to me

[TheOtherOne]

Yep, that was Stephen Merchant.

 

And Bernadette not wanting to have children originally came up in "The Shiny Trinket Maneuver" (AKA the one where Sheldon gives Amy a tiara) back in Season 5. So it did come up before the wedding, but they kind of ignored it and got married anyway. Not a good move in real life, but kind of unsurprising for a sitcom.

[Calamity Jane]

My recollection of the issue about children was that Howard came to Bernadette and said that since she made way more money than he anyway, he would stay home and raise their kids.  No?

[chocolatine]

I hope Stephen Merchant's character sticks around for a few episodes and has scenes with Sheldon. That would be an epic dork-fest.

Like most of you, I was happy to see the emotional development in Sheldon, but I hope Adam Nimoy cuts the meltdown and only leaves in the parts that actually pertain to Leonard Nimoy/Spock, like the brother/bully stories and the napkin, because I think if the meltdown goes public, people (like Kripke) will be really mean about it.

I wish that for once, a TV show would respect a woman's choice to remain child-free. But since this is a Lorre sitcom, I foresee Bernadette magically changing her mind, having a baby, and doing all the work herself because Howard still won't lift a finger to help her.

Edited November 6, 2015 by chocolatine

[CherryAmes]

I don't think anyone should have a baby if they don't want one but if the major issue is who does the work Bernadette earns more than enough money to pay Mary Poppins to move in and raise her children.  No Howard required.

[Ouisch]

In the preview for next week's episode, that girl at the door (Sheldon's date?) was Analeigh Tipton, a former contestant on America's Next Top Model. In fact, she previously appeared on BBT as one of America's Next Top Models.

[jjj]

My recollection of the issue about children was that Howard came to Bernadette and said that since she made way more money than he anyway, he would stay home and raise their kids.  No?

No, Bernadette and Howard had several discussions in that episode, with her explaining why she did not like children nor want children.  Then at the end of the episode, it was *Bernadette* who came to Howard and said the solution was to have children and have him stay home with them so she could have a career and spend her days with grownups.  She seemed fine with that; him less so.  That was where they left it. 

[LADreamr]

I don't think anyone should have a baby if they don't want one but if the major issue is who does the work Bernadette earns more than enough money to pay Mary Poppins to move in and raise her children.  No Howard required.

Well, Bernadette would be making a huge compromise by having and raising kids when she's been clear she didn't want to. Howard wants the kids and would be their father, so yes, very much Howard required.

I hope if they decide to go this way, that Bernadette makes him prove that he'd step up. As it stands now, I wouldn't trust him.

[Jediknight]

And Sheldon, you'd better fight for Amy or you will lose her. She already thinks that you don't care. You don't win the girl by walking away at the first sign of competition.

You also don't win the girl by going up to her after a date, where she just kissed the guy and obviously had a good time, and proposing to her.  Sheldon did the mature thing in that situation, he saw that Amy had just gotten back from a date she enjoyed, and walked away.  He didn't run up to her and propose, he let her have her happiness.

[Chit Chat]

Then at the end of the episode, it was *Bernadette* who came to Howard and said the solution was to have children and have him stay home with them so she could have a career and spend her days with grownups.  She seemed fine with that; him less so.  That was where they left it

 

Didn't she also say that she had to help with her siblings and that she didn't enjoy wiping their snotty noses?   Howard told Raj & Leonard at that time that the issue was a deal breaker for him.  Bernadette offered the solution of him staying home with the kids so she could enjoy working.  Howard knew what he was getting into before he married her.  At least he hasn't been pressuring her about it, seeing as how it wasn't mentioned until her Dad brought it up.  Her parents need to back off of the issue.  I hate when parents pressure their kids to give them grandchildren.  

[starym]

 

I wish that for once, a TV would respect a woman's choice to remain child-free. But since this is a Lorre sitcom, I foresee Bernadette magically changing her mind, having a baby, and doing all the work herself because Howard still won't lift a finger to help her.

 

On the Drew Carey show I recall Kate and Drew breaking up because she didn't want children and he did. Of course they did get married later on and I don't remember if she changed her mind on having kids or not at that point. Sadly that's the only example I can think of and I do agree they need more cases of women happy not being mothers.

[benteen]

Fun episode.  I definitely enjoyed the interview stuff and Wheaton is always amusing.  Loved Leonard wondering what Adam Nimoy did to Wheaton to deserve this.  Parsons is doing good work here with the Amy stuff but it's hard to feel bad for Sheldon when he was such a shitty boyfriend to her.

[Kanner]

Thanks to those how remembered Bernie not wanting kids did come up before. As someone who knew very early she did not want kids, I hope if they have her change her mind they take the time to do it justice. But probably not.

[AriAu]

Too much Rom and not enough Com for me.

 

I agree-very few laughs other than a few Will Wheaton lines and Sheldon's typical Sheldoness, which is getting old.

Maybe it is just me, but this is "America's top rated comedy", but the Sheldon and Amy stuff is just not funny. The Bernadette/Howard kid issue was funny in the episode where we first heard she did not want kids (the one with the magic act), but it is getting increasingly depressing.

 

Speaking of Howard, Simon Helberg may be the MVP of this season, he's hit all his stuff perfectly.

 

But I miss me some "skeevy" Howard.

[CherryAmes]

Well, Bernadette would be making a huge compromise by having and raising kids when she's been clear she didn't want to. Howard wants the kids and would be their father, so yes, very much Howard required.

 

Totally agree if the issue is still that Bernadette doesn't want children, full stop. But if the issue becomes Bernadette is happy (or reconciled which sucks) to have a child if the solution is Howard stays home with it then that's just stupid IMO.  In today's worlds most parents, mommy and daddy, don't stay home with their kids all day.  There is no reason at all for Howard to quit his job because they decide to have a child.  Where I really part ways with the solution that Bernadette have a child if Howard look after it is (a) Howard can't even do laundry or cut his own meat, but mainly (b) how far is Bernadette going to take that?  Is she going to turn into an upperclass Victorian parent and never have anything to do with her children?  If she wants to go to that extreme I still advocate hiring Mary Poppins and then she can see the children for half an hour once a day and feel she's done her duty to her parents and to Howard (insert rolling eyes here).

[ari333]

Too much Rom and not enough Com for me.

 

Word.

That is all.

[Chit Chat]

I found it quite poignant that Sheldon realized he probably wasted all those years trying to emulate a character from a Sci-Fi show.  I liked Leonard's suggestion to him that he start focusing his energy on the real people around him.  I liked how Penny pointed out to him that he does have feelings.  He is human after all!

[ari333]

I found it quite poignant that Sheldon realized he probably wasted all those years trying to emulate a character from a Sci-Fi show.  I liked Leonard's suggestion to him that he start focusing his energy on the real people around him.  I liked how Penny pointed out to him that he does have feelings.  He is human after all!

I agree, it is sad. this is a comedy for cryin out loud.  Sheldon still loves Amy imo and Amy loves him. Why cant he express it? .

[bichonblitz]

No, Bernadette and Howard had several discussions in that episode, with her explaining why she did not like children nor want children.  Then at the end of the episode, it was *Bernadette* who came to Howard and said the solution was to have children and have him stay home with them so she could have a career and spend her days with grownups.  She seemed fine with that; him less so.  That was where they left it. 

Why are they emphasizing Howard quitting his job and staying home with the kid? That is rediculous. There is a thing called nanny's, daycare, etc.... It's not 1950. Jeez. 

Edited November 6, 2015 by bichonblitz

[Homily]

 Is she going to turn into an upperclass Victorian parent and never have anything to do with her children?  If she wants to go to that extreme I still advocate hiring Mary Poppins and then she can see the children for half an hour once a day and feel she's done her duty to her parents and to Howard (insert rolling eyes here).

 

 

I wondered about that in that first (and I think only up to now?) episode where they talked about kids.  It was like they thought that Bernadette not wanting kids really came down to Bernadette not wanting to quit her job.  And since when is that an issue anymore for most parents?  Utterly bizarre. 

 

They made it very clear Bernadette didn't like children and that's not the same thing at all as not wanting to stay home with children.  Do the writers really assume most women have to quit their jobs if they want to have a baby?  And there are a lot more hours in the day than the hours spent at work.  Is Bernadette going to completely ignore any child she might have and never have anything to do with them?  Obviously not!  But you have to wonder if the writers of the show actually know anyone who has kids and kept a job.

 

ETA:  I really messed up the quote feature!!  Sorry if this makes reading my post confusing!

Edited November 6, 2015 by Homily

[roughing it]

 

This show is now so crammed with commercials that the story itself has been carved down to bare-bones nothing. All of the throwaway jokes and witty dialogue exchanges - the things that gave the show its charm in the first place - have been scraped away to allow more time for commercials. If they keep ruining things like this, there will be no show to carry all those commercials in the first place.

They've got to pay those salaries somehow.

 

No babies for Bernie and Howard.  Maybe he should join Big Brothers.

I like that Sheldon is back to being socially awkward rather than grown-up-baby-ass.  I can't wait for Sheldon and Amy to finally have sex and he realizes how great it is and that he's been missing out this whole time.  And they don't want to stop and can't get enough.  And they will have the first baby of the group.

Edited November 6, 2015 by roughing it

[wendyg]

I think the current showrunner, Steve Molaro, is trying to make the show into FRIENDS.

[rab01]

I kinda liked this episode. It was tighter than some of the episodes by focusing on just three characters (Bernadette, Howard & Sheldon) with a few jokes/comments/greek chorusing from the others and a brief Amy sighting.  The kids discussion has been pretty well set up for a while and is a nice sign that the writers haven't totally forgotten who these people are. Of course Bernadette was going to lie to her parents and her original response on kids was that she was willing if Howard took care of them - that was largely a "shut up" joke when she first said it but now we see where it came from. She loves her dad but doesn't want to repeat her mom's life.

 

I don't think they are selling out Bernadette's character.  This kind of discussion is pretty common among married couples before and after kids and I've met relatively few working people who were 100% certain beforehand that they wanted kids or didn't want kids.  There is always room for second thoughts.  All that said, you can't believe that Howard is going to actually take a full 50/50 share of the work (or more) of a baby until he starts doing it without kids. So, if they are still doing stupid "Howard's a spoiled baby" jokes, then all kid discussion has to disappear until he is regularly acting like an adult around the home.

[jjj]

I watched the show at the cbs.com site, and the time on the show was 18:42 -- so, over one-third commercials in the slot.  And that time includes the theme song and credits, so really more like a 17-minute show.  Yikes. 

[AriAu]

This show is now so crammed with commercials that the story itself has been carved down to bare-bones nothing.

 

I think that the show (and I think all network sitcoms) are the same 22 minutes. They have an extra commercial by having the episode run for an extra minute-7:31 end time in Chicago according to my dvr. Has it really gotten shorter?

[FineWashables]

I'm going to disagree with most posters here:  I don't think Sheldon needs to move on. He tells us flat out that he's spent his life trying to live without feelings. It took him years to trust Amy enough to let her into his heart and now that he has, it's time for him to grow up enough to risk rejection in pursuit of what he loves. So no, I don't think he needs to find another girl.  I think he needs to find the courage to cope with a situation that is all about feelings and nothing else, and to tell Amy how deeply he does feel for her.

[Cementhead]

Please no Rostenkowolowitz baby, show, prettiest of all pleases! Please let Howard happily play uncle (a role for which his lazy ass is better suited than dad, anyway) to his friends' eventual kids, and let Bernie remain gloriously childfree. Some women truly don't want children, and we are really happy that way, and that reality would be greatly appreciated if it were reflected on tv ever.

 

Thank you!  Your post is so awesome and hit so close to home for me that I just copied & pasted it and sent it to my hubby at work. 

 

King of Queens almost got this right ..... until the final season when they decided that Doug & Carrie just had to have a baby in order to live happily ever after.  It would be SO nice to have a couple on TV Land to prove that no, you don't.  Happily ever after can happen sans baby.  And I don't know any tv show that got better because they added a baby.  Friends?  Nope.  The Mindy Project?  Nope.  That one just kills me because it was such a WTF move for that particular show.

[Artsda]

There is no way that Sheldon would watch the camera video of Penny & Leonard and not sanitize or do something to the couch. He wouldn't just continue to sit on it. I'm all for character growth, but it seems like they're trying too hard to make him a different character. A "Ross" like from Friends, instead of the Sheldon we know. 

 

Baby talk, engagement ring reveals, Sheldon walking up at the exact time to see Amy on a date & kiss a guy. not a fan really of the formula changing into a rom com like Friends.

[CleoCaesar]

He didn't run up to her and propose, he let her have her happiness.

 

I think it was more Sheldon realizing that Amy's not pining for him and that, if he proposed, she would turn him down. I don't think it was him letting her have her happiness so much as it was him realizing defeat. Sheldon has never prioritized Amy's happiness before. Why would he start now?

[caligirl50]

Everyone wants the show to be hysterical every episode...it can't. But I do miss laughing out loud while watching.

Comedies, when on the air for as long as this show has been on, need to grow, just as the characters need to grow.  

I know this is a bad example (for this board) but SEX AND THE CITY went from being pretty one dimensional to poignant and emotional just as this show is.  There will always be humor, it is a comedy, but the storylines need to show a mixed bag of human experiences.

For the record, this show was the best of the season, in my opinion. The writers seem to have gotten their groove back.

Sheldon and Amy's relationship, Leonard and Penny's marriage, and now Bernadette and Howard's marriage may be complicating the funny but the show NEEDS real life in order for these characters to be relatable.

My two favorite characters are Penny and Raj (Sheldon being next) but neither are being given much to do right now.  Penny used to be a great character. Now, not so much. I know she has grown from the "pretty single neighbor" into something more but the writers are bogged down with the Sheldon and Amy storyline.  I miss a good Penny-centric episode. And for god's sake, give us more Raj!!!!  If you want funny, he's the funniest of them all.

 

To comment on Penny's hair: I believe she is growing it out but I agree that the show's hairstylist is not doing her justice with the sloppy looking ponytail (which we will see again next week).

Cheers!

Edited November 6, 2015 by caligirl50

[LADreamr]

I love that they are exploring Sheldon like this, mainly because Jim Parsons is an incredible dramatic actor and I love watching him show that side of his range. But mainly I'm hoping it's leading up to an honest discussion of what he thinks would happen if he married Amy. Would he demand everything stay as it was between them, or is he open to it evolving? I hope cracking him open in this episode is leading to more of an understanding of what he wants.

[caligirl50]

LADreamr - I think Sheldon doesn't want anyone else to have Amy but he doesn't want anything to change.  At least that is what the writers have shown to us thus far.

Edited November 6, 2015 by caligirl50

[jjj]

I think that the show (and I think all network sitcoms) are the same 22 minutes. They have an extra commercial by having the episode run for an extra minute-7:31 end time in Chicago according to my dvr. Has it really gotten shorter?

Yes, it really has gotten shorter -- as I noted above, the actual show/dialogue time is a little over 17 minutes.

 

I agree about Sheldon needing to explore how he can crack himself open and still be all right -- his whole life and persona we have seen shows us someone needing to control not just everyone around him and the temperature (!), but to insulate himself from any potential disruption of circumstance or emotion.  There is a real boy in there, and watching Jim Parsons tap into that and then tap dance away from it is fascinating to watch.  For me, Sheldon is the most poignant character on the show; not sad, just full of untapped possibility.  And Amy is the one who can get him there. 

Edited November 6, 2015 by jjj

[LADreamr]

LADreamr - I think Sheldon doesn't want anyone else to have Amy but he doesn't want anything to change.  At least that is what the writers have shown to us thus far.

Right. That's what we've seen so far, but since they are now going deeper with him, I want to see if they will explore that too. If he really won't budge on having it exactly his way, or we don't see that he actually has come to want more, then I don't want them back together. They should just both move on, so they can both be happy.

Edited November 6, 2015 by LADreamr

[benteen]

I'm going to disagree with most posters here:  I don't think Sheldon needs to move on. He tells us flat out that he's spent his life trying to live without feelings. It took him years to trust Amy enough to let her into his heart and now that he has, it's time for him to grow up enough to risk rejection in pursuit of what he loves. So no, I don't think he needs to find another girl.  I think he needs to find the courage to cope with a situation that is all about feelings and nothing else, and to tell Amy how deeply he does feel for her.

 

The first thing Sheldon needs to do is develop some self-awareness and realize what a lousy boyfriend he was to Amy and how he's acting like a deranged ex, practically stalking her.  If he can setttle down that way, then he can talk to her about his feelings.

[theatremouse]

Like most of you, I was happy to see the emotional development in Sheldon, but I hope Adam Nimoy cuts the meltdown and only leaves in the parts that actually pertain to Leonard Nimoy/Spock, like the brother/bully stories and the napkin, because I think if the meltdown goes public, people (like Kripke) will be really mean about it.

Had it been real, I would hope they'd leave out the meltdown not necessarily out of consideration for his feelings, but rather because it has nothing to do with Spock and therefore isn't actually useful footage to them, given the film they're trying to make.