S14.E13: Finale, Part 1

[NorthstarATL]

FWIW, my take on Ashley:  She SEEMS (I don't know, of course) like she might be part of the "fat acceptance" movement.  Therefore, her philosophy would be that you can wear whatever you like and should not be constrained in any way by size.  That's the only rationale I can come up with for her plethora of crop tops, open backs, etc.  IMO, most people, regardless of size, want to wear clothes that flatter them and hers do not.  Her clothes. however, do say, "This is what I want to wear and if you don't like it, that's on you."

I do agree with the people who say PR kept her around to male a political statement. I just hope they don't take that all the way to giving her the win because she simply does not deserve it - regular size, plus size, petite, whatever.

In that case, though, what is the point to wanting to "design for" plus sized women? It seems to me that the "movement" would be advocating making available in plus size anything that was out there being sold to any other size, rather than designing with larger proportions in mind. (Then, again, I am a guy, and only recently realized that there is a difference between "young men's" and men's; even though the sizes are the same, the fit is different. Sadly, I am no longer a "young man".

 

Wow, she looked so much younger without all that makeup! Like taking off a mask. In the first episodes I thought she was in her mid-thirties.

What with the heavy make-up, the wig-like hairstyle and meeting on the beach, she may have been the first Witsec contestant! Or a spy! (Now all I can think of is Natasha Fatale!)

[ratgirlagogo]

 

PepperMonkey:Ashley's was way overpraised, as per usual. That said, I did at least FEEL the vibe of her inspiration. I wore a vintage 50s Mexican wedding dress when Mr Monkey and I tied the knot before most of you were born and she definitely captured that feel.

 

millennium:In any other challenge, if Ashley had put those ghastly designs on regular models, she would have gone home.

 

film noire:Ashley: Frida flower crowns? Okay -- then DO THAT. Riff on Frida in Mexico City in the late forties/ early fifties, when her clothing had become a kind of armor for her shattered body. The sicker she became, the more intricate her fashion. And yes, being fat is not necessarily being physically shattered (I have been on both sides of the scale) but using Kahlo's emotional connection to her clothing -- a feeling almost every fat woman has endured (I have literally screamed at pieces of clothing for not behaving) -- could be a powerful inspiration. Instead, pastels and fucking flower crowns. Wonderful. Now all the plus-sized, fashion forward women of the world can look like a giant Necco wafer sprouting pansies -- as their back fat explodes everywhere -- Nina golf clapping the whole time.

I got the Frida Kahlo thing immediately and was trying to figure out why she didn't mention it to Tim when he was questioning her use of the flower crowns. The crowns were the GOOD part of her collection.  And why didn't  Nina tell her - "Frida Kahlo can be Frida Kahlo - you can't" - when clearly Ashley is no Frida Kahlo either. Frankly without the crowns all her dresses were hideous - poorly made and terribly fitted (the peach quilted crop top and circle skirt disaster) and then those two grandmother of the bride monstrosities.  I get what she was trying to do with the pastels, which I actually do think of as very Mexico City, but yikes, you could find dozens and dozens of those lace overjacket straight skirt numbers in any thrift store in America, usually in plus to super-plus sizes - so way to design New! Exciting! Sexy! Different!  for today's plus-size gal, Ashley.  Even if her clothes fit properly I would kind of hate her collection.

 

Sarah D. Bunting:The thing is, it's what she's done all along. Now you clock her for a Trash & Vaudeville aesthetic she's never tried to hide and can usually execute on? 

Thank you!  This was complete bullshit from the judges.  No wonder Candace was shocked.  Why kiss her ass for it all season and then rip her a new one in the finale?

 

KittyRedstone:Edmond's parents were lovely.  How cool that he became interested in design because of how much he liked his parents' style.

That picture of them! They were the BOMB!  The afros! plunging neckline! leather carcoat!  Who wouldn't be inspired by high style parents like that!

 

KLovesToShop:Kelly's three outfits looked cheap and nonsensical. I thought fanny packs were a no-no for at least the past 20 years. Back in the day, even Louis Vuitton and Gucci had a fanny pack, but that was in the mid 1990's. And you certainly don't see them now, except for little old men touring Europe in their plaid shorts, and sandals with socks, or the old ladies wearing a parachute fabric one, while sitting at a slot machine in downtown Vegas

That's EXACTLY what was so great about Kelly's collection!   When she said she was doing fanny packs I laughed out loud.  The fanny packs, the headphones, the woodgrain pattern, diamond/metal pattern fabrics - that's all the stuff that put it into the fashion  as opposed to clothes arena for me.  The more over the top the better - in that I did agree with the judges.  I hope she takes Zac's advice and just DOES go for it.  Fearlessness is crucial to personal style, and she seems really unafraid.  For that matter whatever happens Kelly is one I think that can make something out of her tenure on this show.  She seems fearless and when it comes to style courage is the first virtue.  She and Edmond are two of the most likeable PR finalists in years.

Edited October 31, 2015 by ratgirlagogo

[JosieThePussycat]

But the thing is that whether Candice's mother was an addict or Ashley's father was an alcoholic or Edmond's brother is addicted to gambling or their cat died last, while tragic, has nothing to do with whether or not these people can design and make clothes. My mother was an alcoholic. Sure, I have personal feelings about that and about her but I've never injected that into anything in my professional life. Personal lives have little business being injected into a workplace. No one I've ever worked for knows anything about it and there's no reason why they should. Was it fun? Hell no. Would that have made any difference if I missed a meeting or a deadline? Shit no and it shouldn't. Of course, on a human level, it matters, of course it has to be dealt with and hopefully successfully addressed but does your boss want to know about it when an order has to go out this afternoon?

 

You can make excuses and rationalize til the cows come home but the bottom line here is whether or not you can get the job done.

 

I agree with you as far as a strictly professional situation, but - isn't the whole point of these pre-finale home visits to fill out the picture of the designer as a person, with a family and a home (or access to a beach ;) and a backstory?

 

I mean, if I had an order to get out, I wouldn't call in the client to meet my boyfriend or hand him a sandwich I'd named after him, either. This was all about "who are you, where did you come from, who are your people, what formed you?".

[ratgirlagogo]

 

RealityCowgirl:I feel a little sorry for Kelly, for the same reasons others have mentioned. The judges have been stroking her for a while now about staying true to her aesthetic. Her collection is exactly that, with what she probably, legitimately thought were "luxurious" fabrics

Geeze louise.  Not to hammer away at my previous point - but for god's sack of COURSE she doesn't consider those fabrics "luxurious", any more than she did that terrifying fake alligator vinyl stuff she used in the avant-garde challenge.  She's picking horrific fabrics on purpose.  Oh baby, that IS punk rock, way more punk rock than Candace.  Brings me back. 

Edited October 31, 2015 by ratgirlagogo

[JosieThePussycat]

As soon as the camera went to Kelly's collection during Tim's visit, I said out loud, "Oh my god, that looks so cheap". Then I was stunned when Tim praised it. Get mesh in different colors?? How about losing the mesh? She pulled out one or two hangers with outfits you'd swear were designed for young ice skaters or child pageants.

 

Tim's been off the mark sooo much, and it's impossible to miss now that we're into the third season of him embracing something only for the judges to spit on it. And yes, his shaking is noticeable. I hope he's well but I wonder what's going on.

 

The instructions for the finalists to go off for 48 hours and come back with a completely overhauled collection for FW is pure Project Runway. I'm grinning at the comments here that they should be given five or seven days. Ever watched the show before? ;)

 

To their credit, though, and to my eye - they're moving ever so slightly away from drama for drama's sake. Maybe they've been called out on  it so often it's started to sink in. The final four are all basically decent, mature adults. It's more like Face Off in that sense than it's ever been. Unfortunately they haven't absorbed Face Off's genuine commitment to honoring craft and skill, and still have producer fingerprints all over the judging and horribly contrived scenes like Edmond's "surprise" save. Bottom line: this show doesn't trust its viewers to care enough about the art and craft of fashion creation to keep it going, so it gets shoved into the corner like some extraneous but necessary bother. Thus the "do this all over in two days!" instead of giving the designers a chance at actually designing something with care, and judging that.

 

Ashley: quilted fabric on a larger woman? shksabelle is definitey onto something with the "fat acceptance" theory, because only that or sheer silliness could account for this choice. "Let's add another inch to your hips, that'll be great!" Not so much.

 

I love Edmond. I love that almost childlike, joyous cast to his bright, open smile. I love his humor and his warmth. Not a darned thing to do with the clothes he makes, but I just wanted to get that off my chest. ;) He's not the strongest contestant, but he's very good, especially under pressure. I wonder if that's why he left so much to do in the last couple weeks of prep time: he's better with a tight deadline.

 

I want Kelly to win, and I wish her sneak peek gave me any confidence she could do it. She's not just my emotional favorite. I love the personal style that speaks in her designs. But with that tacky concept ... argggh. I'm afraid she won't pull it off. I really want to be wrong! Prediction: it's Candace. I'm more than okay with that, she's done some beautiful stuff, and imo has the strongest, most consistent construction skills.

 

The conflation of Springfield with Boston and (apparently) any location within fifteen miles of San Francisco with the city itself is irritating.

 

ETA: Nina had the perfect take on Ashley's headpieces: she interrupted the endless conversation about them to say, "Do you want them to talk about the clothes, or the hats?" Bingo!

Edited October 31, 2015 by JosieThePussycat

[Julia]

If Kelly is working a retail food service job I'm going to guess she needs that money, and given what Boston costs I'm going to guess her place isn't all that shiny. Dad's place in Springfield was the same house she used in her home visit.

[Jobiska]

What was up with Edmond? He still needed to create two whole looks when he arrived for NYFW? Wtf?

 

It's the dreaded Swapnil Laziness Virus.  Tim tried his best to save them all, but alas, because Edmond roomed with Swapnil, I guess he caught a mild case.

 

[guilfoyleatpp]

Thank you to PP who pointed out that Candace lives in OAKLAND, not really Silicon Valley, which is south of San Francisco. Oakland (and Berkeley and Piedmont and lots of places) is east of San Francisco. 

 

I also found their picnic at Ocean Beach odd. Ocean Beach (in San Francisco) is neither the most convenient or pleasant beach. From Oakland, there is a vast amount of beachy bay front area about 30 minutes closer and considerably less windy than Ocean Beach usually is.  But ok, whatever, They wanted the beach in SF and they got it.  Yes, it's fucking cold and windy and mostly foggy. I lived in SF for close to 2 decades and was out there less than 10 times total, usually with out of town guests.

 

And as far as SF designers go...Chris March and Christopher Collins and even Esprit and Gunne Sax (Jessica McClintock), there is a costume-y thing. There just is. I recognize it in my own clothing selections. I had my SF wardrobe and I moved to DC for a couple of years and...yeah. It's a different vibe. People do dress a little outrageously in daily life, even the finance people. I mean, you see dudes walking down the street in mesh shirts and pierced nipples and sometimes in nothing. That raises (or lowers) the bar for everyone. It's hard NOT to be influenced by a generally high level of costumery, mostly because it's so fun.

 

Not that I love Candace or her somewhat off-putting superiority and her overly coiffed hair (she looks SO CUTE without bangs though) and makeup. But I get her style. And I get how it's not necessarily intentionally Alexander McQueen.

Ashley...ok, two days before FW and so many fit issues is just...perplexing. I love the idea of Mexico City in the 50s. I liked the pale pink quilted fabric that looked almost like leather. And the Frieda Kahlo head dresses.  But none of her stuff fit and it's just too late for that to happen. and I'm a size 18 and I might buy that skirt on clearance and put it with a different shirt...oh wait, I have bought that skirt.  A few years ago at Macy's.  And it sits in my closet because it's hard to find stuff to go with that much pink. I like the idea, but the execution, not so much. 

 

I'm going to say Kelli will win. 

[itainttippithebird]

Crop tops, form fitting pencil skirts, everything Ashley is doing is actually SUPER of the moment in plus-sized fashion - maybe even TOO on the nose, if anything. I find it humorous that so here many seem to find it shocking she'd do a crop top for plus fashion, when that's practically de rigueur in your average plus collection these days! If she's to be criticized for her plus-specific fashion design, I think it would be way more accurate to say she's mimicking too much, rather than way off the mark.

[Shibori]

My issue with Ashley's work is not that crop tops are inherently evil, but that the kind of girl shopping in plus who would buy them and wear them with pride would not be the same kind of girl who would choose mumsy lace in mauve and eggplant. That seems like a weird intersection of disparate styles that would be challenging to pull off in a collection, and I've seen nothing to suggest Ashley has that kind of talent.

[NewDigs]

My issue with Ashley's work is not that crop tops are inherently evil, but that the kind of girl shopping in plus who would buy them and wear them with pride would not be the same kind of girl who would choose mumsy lace in mauve and eggplant. That seems like a weird intersection of disparate styles that would be challenging to pull off in a collection, and I've seen nothing to suggest Ashley has that kind of talent.

Agree completely. Doesn't a collection dress one woman for different occassions?

Not Ashley's.

And I didn't get her whole, I dyed everything myself, thing.

I would think those colors are available off the shelf.

[theatremouse]

I thought Ashley's looks were very mother of the bride, and I don't mean that as a euphemism for "not young". I mean very seriously that the lacy, and the color palette, and probably not helped by the floral headpieces (which in general I'm not against) but the combination looked exactly to me like the sort of outfit a mom would wear to her kid's wedding. To me the two lacey looks might as well have been mother of the bride Halloween costumes. If not specifically "mother" it certainly read "adult female relative attending family wedding as guest" to me. That vibe is not what I expect for fashion week. It's not fun, it's not new, it's not interesting. Fit issues aside what I saw of her collection wasn't terrible and it also had zero wow factor. It made me think "ok, fine, and?"

(I'm not saying fit is not super important for the final runway show, it is, but I'm saying "aside" for now under the assumption they're basically not done yet since they have more time to tweak)

I do think whether the designer decides to go sexy or flirty or kooky or whatever adjective they're hoping people will think of when they see the show, the point of the finale if nothing else is "wow factor". Whatever your angle is, you're still going for "wow".

I saw no wow in this episode, except for maybe one or two we barely got a glimpse of when they unpacked garment bags. But none of the three selected for judging in this one came close to "wow" for me.

[Shibori]

Unless they are guaranteed the same models for fashion week they had for these mini collections, I wouldn't go too far in making alterations for fit for fear I'd get to FW and find that I made a prior alteration in the wrong direction. Letting out seams/darts/straps may leave marks or not be reversible, so that could be a factor. That said, Ashley's quilted top was an abomination in terms of fit in a way I can't see her being able to fix no matter what.

Edited November 1, 2015 by Shibori

[RemoteControlFreak]

Crop tops, form fitting pencil skirts, everything Ashley is doing is actually SUPER of the moment in plus-sized fashion - maybe even TOO on the nose, if anything. I find it humorous that so here many seem to find it shocking she'd do a crop top for plus fashion, when that's practically de rigueur in your average plus collection these days! If she's to be criticized for her plus-specific fashion design, I think it would be way more accurate to say she's mimicking too much, rather than way off the mark.

Not sure if this is in reference to my post, but I never said that crop tops or pencil skirts, per se, were a bad choice for Ashley. I said that her clothing made the models look fatter than they really are largely (no pun intended) because the cut, colors and patterns often cut the women in half at the widest part of their bodies.  If you are correct that crop tops and pencil skirts are trending right now in plus size fashion (I don't know if that is really true), I doubt those clothes are as unflattering as Ashley's creations.  

Edited November 1, 2015 by RemoteControlFreak

[PepperMonkey]

I guess it's conceivable that Ashley is part of the fat acceptance movement, but I think she's just more confused than anything.

 

I mean her best designs on the show were for AUBE. She won the first challenge on a modelesque model. When she had the opportunity to design for a normal woman, she blew it big time. I still contend she WANTS to be a plus size designer but her reason is because she is plus size and has trouble finding clothes she likes. Also, when she does find something, she doesn't always want it to be black. I guess it's preferable to have it be hand dyed baby pink or eggplant lace. I think Ashley is in love with the IDEA of plus size designing but hasn't got the skills to accomplish same.

 

And as for fat acceptance versus women who want to possibly look longer, leaner, slimmer in their clothes even if they're larger, I say do what you want. Ashley's message is just mixed and all over the place and I still don't believe she actually is a plus size designer. Not a very good one, anyway.

Edited November 1, 2015 by PepperMonkey

[hoodooznoodooz]

Golly, I have such a crush on Edmond! Does he have a girlfriend?

The long black dress with the ruffle was not so bad. I could see Nicole Kidman wearing it and looking very sexy.

There is nothing more fun than watching Kelly's face while Tim is tossing around his SAT words.

[hoodooznoodooz]

Reviewing the first episode, Road to the Runway. The first three contestants they introduce are Candace, Kelly and Ashley, in that order.

[Knuckles]

"I think Ashley is in love with the IDEA of plus size designing but hasn't got the skills to accomplish same."

 

That's it in a nutshell. And the judges are in love with the IDEA of a plus size designer, but Ashley is not the one they seek. Just on basic construction skills she fails...hems are uneven, zippers are badly placed, the fit is off...where is her eye? Her fabric choices are terrible...as has been noted by almost every poster. 

Her flower headdresses are a distraction from the clothes...deliberately so. When the clothes themselves fail, she hopes an accessory will carry the idea.

 

I am on the lanky side myself, but larger women should not be encouraged to hide themselves, their clothes can suggest they are voluptuous, and very attractive, with beautiful fabrics and sophisticated cuts. A designer needs to employ a lot of skill, as high-end clothes demand, plus size or not. Ashley doesn't have the chops.

I wish they had found a better designer to explore the idea...but maybe their were few entrants to pick from.

It does suggest to me that a really skilled designer could use PR to find a corporate home...say Target, for example...where well-designed pieces in good if not the very best fabrics, would be available to larger women. Skip the sad polyesters, the cheap lace and busy prints...and showcase it, don't hide in some off-corner.

At the right price point, a lot of American women would be much happier.

[Ladyrain]

I was very confused by Kelly's home visit to.....Springfield.  All season her screen ID said Kelly Dempsey, Boston.  Those two cities are on opposite ends of the state (Commonwealth, lol) ; I live 'kind of' near Springfield (which isn't that far from the NY border) and Boston is a good 2 hour drive away, on the eastern shore.  That said, I like Kelly.  As others have said, she doesn't have an over-inflated ego.  What she does have is a true sense of what she's trying to accomplish as a designer, even though her looks certainly aren't for everybody.  The same can't be said of Edmond, who seems to flail around trying to find his true direction.  Candace seems to know where she'g going design-wise, but she's a little off-putting to me. Can't pinpoint why, she just comes off as a bit cold.  Ashley seems to have lost her way; her designs early on were innovative and seemed to be well-made (I can't sew on a button, so I don't really know what I'm talking about there) but now the contruction flaws are evident-even to me-and her designs are not creative in the way that they were at the beginning.  But we've only seen 2 looks from each of the collections, so hopefully they'll all surprise us.  My fingers are crossed for a Kelly win because, in my opinion, she's the most genuine in terms of her direction, aesthetic, execution.

[Beden]

 

I agree with you as far as a strictly professional situation, but - isn't the whole point of these pre-finale home visits to fill out the picture of the designer as a person, with a family and a home (or access to a beach ;) and a backstory?

I agree with you Josie on a human level and hear what you're saying but back in the day, back in college the professors would purposely go easy on their students as they took the position that they were young and still forming themselves and their skills. They were kind to their students but I believed then that they weren't doing them a favor. Unfortunately criticism is a fact of life and one we have to learn to cope with, unpleasant as it may be. I understand that it can, indeed, hurt a young designer but dealing with bad press or bad reviews is, sadly, often part of the job and one which has to be learned if you're going to succeed or even last.

 

I also get that with the at home visits the producers are trying to humanize their contestants and, as far as a TV show goes, it makes perfect sense. But as professionals, curves and slings will be thrown at them--maybe not on national TV, but they'll be there and are part of the job.

 

I guess it's a question of tough love. And being cruel to be kind (cue the music...)

[StrictTime]

I have deliberately avoided all spoiler pics/stories about NYFW. I want to be surprised at the outcome of PR this season.

That said, after viewing the mini collections on the latest episode, I firmly believe that the clothes those designers sent before the judges were the production gremlins purposefully throwing the audience off. There is NO WAY those garments walked the runway in front of those judges because the designers believed them to be 'the best representation of their collections'. I bet (and remember, I don't know what anything looked like at FW) the collections, especially Ashley's, will be remarkably, DRAMATICALLY better.

I'm so done with all the manipulation for dramatic effect. Ugh.

[dgpolo]

I think, for me, the thing with floral headpieces is that they seem to be the same size as the models heads. If they were bigger or smaller I think they would have looked better.

[potatoradio]

Is there a mad scientist available who can inject about half of Candice's delusional self promotion into Ashley? Because I would like to see a line of clothes from a Candice with a self-critical eye and a line of clothes from an Ashley who doesn't curl into a ball of pathos when given the opportunity to perform.

 

Wasted opportunity on that runway for the judges to actually discuss plus size design. Instead, we get vapid, pointless "politically correct" responses that clearly indicate they don't think much of Ashley or plus size design and she's just there as a "diversity" card. I agreed with Nina that Ashely did some interesting things at the beginning (the Polaroid dress, the partner outfit with Candice) and I was curious to see those transformed from Aube (who could wear a potato sack and look incredible) to bigger sized models. But I guess her true aesthetic is pastel lace and an uber feminine/Laura Ashley/Holly Hobby vibe, which I personally think looks stupid on anyone except eight year old girly girls, but whatever...I just don't think Ashley has a solid enough point of view (oh god...I can't believe I just said that) yet. And the judges should have called her out on that long ago.

 

 

You can design fun, pretty, sexy plus size clothes, but you have to follow the rules about what big women can, and cannot wear

 

I was really hoping Ashley had the chutzpah to be a designer who challenged these "rules". Alas, she does not.

 

Am I the only one who thought the red/white pants Candice showed the judges looked like the model had a menstrual accident?

 

Most definitely not. And I can't believe nobody made a junior high vagina joke about it. Perhaps when Tampax sponsors the accessory wall?

 

 

Now all the plus-sized, fashion forward women of the world can look like a giant Necco wafer sprouting pansies -- as their back fat explodes everywhere -- Nina golf clapping the whole time.

 

Winner winner chicken dinner...thanks for this!!

 

[Kromm]

The big thing is the apparent disconnect between Tim's analysis and what Zac and Nina bitch endlessly about. There's just a total mismatch, and this mini-collection once more emphasized that. You could REALLY see that most with his reactions to Candice's mini collection. Tim seemed very positive not just about her individual looks, but also the grouping of the three (and in fact pushed her into her choices to a big degree).

And I agree with others who have pointed out Candice was panned for doing exactly what the judges URGED and applauded her doing before (and them telling another contestant they they had to be themselves was even more laughable with them basically telling Candice she shouldn't be). And sure Candice is an egotist, but I don't think that has anything to do with her designing talent, either negatively or positively. And it's just eyerollworthy that the judges didn't talk about her construction skills at all.

Candice's ACTUAL worst quality is not her personality, but rather that she lives in cliche-land. But to be fair, all of these designers do. Ashley's color story takes any sense of bravery from her work and reduces it to pastel cliches. Kelly is hitting those 80s/90s cliches super-hard. And Edmund? Well he doesn't have a personality quirk like the others to MATCH his clothing cliches, nevertheless what he turned in looked cliched.

Getting back to Candice and HER cliches, I will say in her defense that it's ludicrous for the judges to act like McQueen owns lock stock and barrel all of those elements. That stupid hat? Sure. The rest? I don't think she needed to go more boring/safe like they were puzzlingly pushing her... I think she needed to go even FURTHER out. Maybe with specific touches McQueen never did, but the Drama is what defines her looks. Asking her to cut back on that is asking her to deliberately lose.

Oh... Ashley getting a total pass on the garbage she turned in? Amazing.

Zac, who in the past few years has turned into the ass to beat all asses, was actually right about Edmund being King Of Ruffles. That annoyed me too. Also Heidi contradicted herself in the same 60 seconds. First she bitched that Edmund needed something unifying besides Black and White to make it a collection. Then she bitched that the ruffles were on everything (so... unifying) but "they don't have to go on everything". Huh? I mean I hated the ruffles, but her statement just contradicts what she'd just said before.

I could go on and on about how contradictory these judges are.

[Julia]

If McQueen owned that hat, he bought it at Audrey Hepburn's estate sale. 

[itainttippithebird]

 

Not sure if this is in reference to my post, but I never said that crop tops or pencil skirts, per se, were a bad choice for Ashley.

 

It wasn't specifically about any one post, just the general trend of people seeming boggled by her choices, when every one of her outfits could come direct from the front page of Eloquii or Evans or ASOS Curve.

[ratgirlagogo]

I'm not posting this to be difficult.  But here are the front pages of the three sites you mention.

http://www.eloquii.com/new

http://www.evansusa.com/en/evus/category/apparel-3499454

http://us.asos.com/Women-Curve-Plus-Size/1122im/?cid=9577&channelref=paid+search&affid=12497&gclid=COGbtJa48MgCFYsTHwodt1gCcg

 

Only in the Evans site do I see a anything along the lines of anything Ashley made - the dress with the little lace bolero/overblouse with skirt:http://www.evansusa.com/en/evus/product/new-in-942923/little-mistress-black-and-light-grey-lace-dress-4933807?bi=0&ps=20 and it's not in peach or shell pink or deep mauve.  It's in black and dove gray, which has a very differerent look and feel - don't like to say more "hip" but maybe more urban.

 

My problem with her designs is not GASP! plus size crop tops! It's mostly that her stuff didn't fit, but even beyond that looked like something you'd see on Mamie Eisenhower rather than Sophia Loren (to take two plus size celebrity women from the late fifties).

[itainttippithebird]

Ok, you're right, you got me, the winter lines for Eloquii and ASOS don't prominently feature crop tops. This summer, they were everywhere. I have no idea why this is such a bone of contention? All I'm saying is that crop tops have been hugely fashionable in plus size this year. I'm not arguing with anyone about the fit, about the attractiveness, anything. I have no bone to pick with you about this. My only point is that they have been very popular and for people to act shocked about that is just to not know much about plus size fashion right now.

Edited November 2, 2015 by itainttippithebird

[klarsonovsky]

Agree that Ashley was foreordained to make finale based on PR's desire to feature a plus-sized collection, but have to defend her here-- 

 

What regular plus size woman would wear a crop top? These "plus" models are really just bigger gals, young, firm, pretty much toned just a little larger,but real plus size ?

No offense to poster-- just chose this as representative comment-- but my reply:

 

What regular woman of any size who is older than 26 and doesn't live in a fashion capital/work in publishing/regularly attend black-tie fundraising events would wear almost anything you see during fashion week? Runway isn't about practicality or regular women. It's meant to be aspirational-- a fantasy-- and I think Ashley achieved that. Her collection wasn't about what the average plus-sized woman actually wears; it was a vision of what plus-sized women could wear in a world that embraced and celebrated their curves, silhouettes, thighs, busts, even their back fat. A world where "sexy" isn't a size or shape, but a frame of mind.

 

That's what makes Ashley's collection truly new for PR. Sure, we've seen "real women" challenges that involved people larger than model-sized, but as many have noted-- most real, everyday larger women (and designers working with them) tend toward "slimming, covering, camoflaging" type designs. This collection went in a totally different direction. It makes me want to search online for other major plus- sized collections (I don't really have any idea what the norm is), but certainly for this show it was new and interesting, and Ashley undoubtedly benefitted from the fact that the judges basically had no real frame of reference in their critiques. (And I wonder how much the construction issues-- poor fit in busts, misaligned visible zippers-- had to do with not fitting models until last minute? Is there perhaps more variation in measurements and proportions when it comes to plus-sized models?)

 

The others however-- WOW! That was maybe the worst collective pre-finale smackdown EVER! Which basically came down to "Everything we've rewarded you for all season? We totally hate now!"

 

Still think Kelly has best chance at the win. Judges' comments were on the mark, but really Kelly showed her worst 3 pieces-- better styling may be all she needs to worry about. She seemed to have other pieces on her rack that that make her collection come together and make better sense than what she showed.

 

Edmund made a lot of lovely dresses. Don't know what else to say.

 

Candace definitely suffered most from the schizophrenic judging. All season long she was lauded for derivative, costumey pieces. And now suddenly the judges are calling her on it? Based on what we saw of the rest of her collection, her only hope is to fix the styling and ignore the rest of the commentary-- choose to lose with your own vision, or lose with a watered-down version of it.

[RemoteControlFreak]

I was very confused by Kelly's home visit to.....Springfield.  All season her screen ID said Kelly Dempsey, Boston.  Those two cities are on opposite ends of the state (Commonwealth, lol) ; I live 'kind of' near Springfield (which isn't that far from the NY border) and Boston is a good 2 hour drive away, on the eastern shore.  ...

Here's an article in the local Springfield paper that might clear up the confusion:

 

http://www.masslive.com/entertainment/index.ssf/2015/10/project_runway_host_tim_gunn_visits_season_14_finalist_kelly_dempsey_in_springfield.html

 

She grew up in Monson, a suburb of Springfield.  She has lived in the Boston area for the past 12 years. The deli she works at is in Medford, a close-in suburb of Boston. The house shown in Tim's visit is her "family" house in ... Springfield, Monson, East Longmeadow?  It's not clear. The restaurant is in East Longmeadow, also a suburb of Springfield.

[QuantumMechanic]

Reprehensible?  That's a little harsh.  My first thought was that maybe Kelly's parents are divorced, as another poster surmised, so maybe it was one-or-the-other.  And as much as I Iove Tim Gunn, I think her fashion show at NYFW will be a bigger moment in her life than a home visit with Tim.  Oh, and yes, Kelly might be from the deli, but she's not from Boston!  Springfield is not Boston!  Not even a suburb.  Weird how they did that.

She must've moved out there for making the collection because the deli she works (worked?) in is in Medford, which is all of two miles or so from Boston.  And I doubt she commuted 90 miles each way from Springfield to Medford to work at the deli.

[Kromm]

The eloquii site has a yellow lace tunic dress that looks very similar (other than in color) to something Ashley might make.  They also have a lace color blocked skirt.  The asos site has a lace jacket and a lace boho dress, both in black but it does looks like lace just won't go away.  I don't think the problem with Ashley's choices are necessarily that they are lace, but the color and the fit.

 

I am thinking we are going to get tossed to the Ashley thread if the focus continues on her in this one.

Seems to me when you only have four contestants.. you're going to talk a lot about what what any of them did in an episode. And we ARE talking about what she designed FOR this episode, right?  

She must've moved out there for making the collection because the deli she works (worked?) in is in Medford, which is all of two miles or so from Boston.  And I doubt she commuted 90 miles each way from Springfield to Medford to work at the deli.

Yeah, this doesn't really seem that confusing. People, most of us, have parents. Who we often move out from and set up lives in another town. That's all that happened here, it seems.

[Kromm]

Candace definitely suffered most from the schizophrenic judging. All season long she was lauded for derivative, costumey pieces. And now suddenly the judges are calling her on it? Based on what we saw of the rest of her collection, her only hope is to fix the styling and ignore the rest of the commentary-- choose to lose with your own vision, or lose with a watered-down version of it.

And I think at least here and perhaps on Twitter she's suffering in reactions to her work as a backlash to her arrogance. And in a way, as annoying as she is, that's unfair. The show IS supposed to be about the work and not the personality (because if it WAS about the personality, Kelly would have already won this). Candice is a real piece of work as a person, but her craftsmanship is probably the best there (maybe Edmond's is as good, perhaps). Just for that alone, her work would deserve better than a viscous pan. And for GOTH clothes specifically, the taste level wasn't bad on those outfits (other than people's observations that one of the red spots on her red outfit perhaps was in a bad place). The problem is mostly that it's derivative. Which perhaps does't make for a winning collection, but it hardly makes it all garbage. This really DOES all fall on the heads of the judges. If they had a valid complaint that this was all too derivative, it wasn't just these three outfits that indicated so. It was everything she's done since Day 1, and... they only "revealed" these opinions in time to generate drama and a freakout and a plotline for the finale.

 

As someone who seems like she may be a bit of a rhymes-with-witch, it's hard to feel sorry for Candice being put in that position. But not feeling sorry for her doesn't mean it isn't worthy of huge disdain/eyerolls at the show and the judges for doing it.

[Kromm]

Agree that Ashley was foreordained to make finale based on PR's desire to feature a plus-sized collection, but have to defend her here-- 

 

No offense to poster-- just chose this as representative comment-- but my reply:

 

What regular woman of any size who is older than 26 and doesn't live in a fashion capital/work in publishing/regularly attend black-tie fundraising events would wear almost anything you see during fashion week? Runway isn't about practicality or regular women. It's meant to be aspirational-- a fantasy-- and I think Ashley achieved that. Her collection wasn't about what the average plus-sized woman actually wears; it was a vision of what plus-sized women could wear in a world that embraced and celebrated their curves, silhouettes, thighs, busts, even their back fat. A world where "sexy" isn't a size or shape, but a frame of mind.

 

That's what makes Ashley's collection truly new for PR. Sure, we've seen "real women" challenges that involved people larger than model-sized, but as many have noted-- most real, everyday larger women (and designers working with them) tend toward "slimming, covering, camoflaging" type designs. This collection went in a totally different direction. It makes me want to search online for other major plus- sized collections (I don't really have any idea what the norm is), but certainly for this show it was new and interesting, and Ashley undoubtedly benefitted from the fact that the judges basically had no real frame of reference in their critiques. (And I wonder how much the construction issues-- poor fit in busts, misaligned visible zippers-- had to do with not fitting models until last minute? Is there perhaps more variation in measurements and proportions when it comes to plus-sized models?)

For me the problem with Ashley's outfits in this trio were the horrible choice of colors, and to a degree even the fabric choices. I have less of a problem with the actual cut. The judges may have had no frame of reference for some of this, but I don't know if that was really needed to see how bad those color and fabric choices were... for anyone. Whatever size they are.

[JosieThePussycat]

And I think at least here and perhaps on Twitter she's suffering in reactions to her work as a backlash to her arrogance. And in a way, as annoying as she is, that's unfair. The show IS supposed to be about the work and not the personality (because if it WAS about the personality, Kelly would have already won this). Candice is a real piece of work as a person, but her craftsmanship is probably the best there (maybe Edmond's is as good, perhaps). Just for that alone, her work would deserve better than a viscous pan. And for GOTH clothes specifically, the taste level wasn't bad on those outfits (other than people's observations that one of the red spots on her red outfit perhaps was in a bad place). The problem is mostly that it's derivative. Which perhaps does't make for a winning collection, but it hardly makes it all garbage. This really DOES all fall on the heads of the judges. If they had a valid complaint that this was all too derivative, it wasn't just these three outfits that indicated so. It was everything she's done since Day 1, and... they only "revealed" these opinions in time to generate drama and a freakout and a plotline for the finale.

 

As someone who seems like she may be a bit of a rhymes-with-witch, it's hard to feel sorry for Candice being put in that position. But not feeling sorry for her doesn't mean it isn't worthy of huge disdain/eyerolls at the show and the judges for doing it.

 

I just don't see those qualities in Candace (arrogance, rhymes-with-witchness). I see a woman who is assertive and confident, who speaks straightforwardly. In our culture I think that often gets read as arrogance in a woman.

 

ETA: The rest of your post - her craftsmanship, the disingenuousness of the judges, Kelli's personality - agree 100%.

Edited November 2, 2015 by JosieThePussycat

[Kromm]

I just don't see those qualities in Candace (arrogance, rhymes-with-witchness). I see a woman who is assertive and confident, who speaks straightforwardly. In our culture I think that often gets read as arrogance in a woman.

 

ETA: The rest of your post - her craftsmanship, the disingenuousness of the judges, Kelli's personality - agree 100%.

I personally have defended her for most of the season. I don't mind her talking confidentially about her own work for the most part, but it does come off as arrogance in the edit, whether or not it truly is. That said, and it took most of the season for me to finally come around on this because I argued it for most of it, I DO see why other viewers think there's often a barb in a lot of how she talks about some of the other contestants, even when she seems to be complimenting them. I mean take her "you never give compliments" thing.  That really seems like a bitchy comment, not just some random observation. It might even be TRUE, but there just seemed something terribly untactful about it.

 

It's clear she especially doesn't like Ashley, and that's fine. A lot of people wanted to turn that into proof of a bias earlier in the season, but I still don't agree it was--sometimes you're just competitive with people or sometimes you just plain don't like them.  It's hardly automatically bias. I'd argue the work we eventually saw from Ashley, despite the show lathering her with praise on occasion, showed she's not really all that good. That almost seems why Candice backed off on any early desire to get her booted as competition. And as Kelly grew as competition (at least with the judges' verdicts) we didn't see any sign of Candice "turning" on Kelly, and I do think that speaks well of Candice and shows that any beef she had with Ashley was more likely just them not being compatible personalties.

Edited November 2, 2015 by Kromm

[OakGoblinFly]

What's up with the judges reaming 3 designers and gushing over Ashley's so-called plus-size collection? I guess the fashion world's idea of plus-size is Sofia Vergara, because I don't know any larger woman who wants to wear crop-tops and giant quilted skirts.

 

Edmond's 1st 2 dresses were gorgeous, but that black ruffled gown looked like a Morticia Addams reject. Hideous. 

 

Kelley's looked so much better in the home visit; on the runway it looked cheap & tacky, and not in a fun way.

 

I want Candace's black lace coat, it was beautiful and wearable.

 

 

Didn't Heidi pretty much admit that Ashley was a finalist so she could show a plus-sized collection?  At least that was my take-away during the introduction ...... <shrug>

 

 

I hope either Kelly or Edmond win - I thought Ashley's looks were terrible; really what plus sized woman is going to want to wear a backless lace top with NO lining?  Or granny pants with an unlined skirt?  Or a quilt?

 

 

Candice went off the rails - 

[Julia]

Well, if you believe her press, it's actually Candice's job to project confidence in social situations, and she's managed, however she's managed, to get a few well-funded angel investors to support her nascent career. I can see both why she would go into this playing the ice queen and why Ashley's insecurities, and more than that, the constant reassurances Ashley got because of her insecurities, would annoy her. I also think the incident with the team showed up a real weakness in Candice - she's a terrible manager - and that she most likely blames Ashley for that. 

 

I also think someone who was as big an asshole as all that would not have gone out of her way to support Merlene. And I suspect that Candice's stuff was cherrypicked for negativity, which means probably what we saw was the worst she said. I don't think she approaches the worst contestant for that.

[ElectricBoogaloo]

While I agree that fit is very important, especially for the final runway, I thought that the fittings they did this episode were only for the models who wore the 11th outfit that they designed. If that's the case, they I am going to give Ashley a partial pass on that issue for now since she may not have decided which models will wear each design in the final show and therefore didn't tailor the other two outfits to present her mini collection to the judges. We'll see if she manages to improve the fit on her designs for the final runway.

 

It's also possible I just wasn't paying attention and didn't notice the models for the other two outfits being fitted though. Honestly, I have started multitasking and/or not giving this show my full attention when I'm watching it these days.

[Knuckles]

This is totally off the mark, but I rematched the finale last night, and I was struck by how supportive the families of Edmond, Kelly and Ashley were...and how cold and blustery the family moment of Candice. Her mom looked apologetic and somewhat miserable, Tim himself uncomfortable...was this an effort to give Candice a more sympathetic edit? It seemed calculated to me...one of those reality show tropes that really misfire. Would have preferred to see Candice as a stand-alone woman who pulled herself along thru a difficult childhood/adolescence.  Assuming that that is the truth. Candice strikes me as less authentic than a carefully presented construct.

Kelly though seemed to have the support of everybody who knows her...family, coworkers et. al. So she really is a good egg.

[backgroundnoise]

Fashion designers shouldn't make things that make the customer look worse than the customer can.  It's just as possible to design something totally inappropriate for a too-thin person as an overweight one.  Remember S1 Alexandra's micro-bikini for skeletal Erin?

 

To me, Ashley's designs in this minicollection would make true plus-size females (size 20+) look worse than they could and would subject them to ridicule.  The judges can tiptop around that as much as they like, but picture a truly large women in those crop tops and skin-tight see-through skirt or with her bra hanging out.

 

I'm sorry, but I am a plus size women and I don't see anything wrong in admitting there are things I simply cannot wear.  Ashley did not design for me, she just made regular designs in a slightly larger size.  The elephant in the room is trumpeting away but no one will acknowledge it.

 

Ashley herself provided a good example.  She wore two different skirts in the episode, that voluminous yellow one with the gathered waist, and a sleeker one in an animal print(?).  She looked much better, IMO, in the brown one that wasn't gathered.  YMMV.

[Miss Ruth]

ElectricBoogaloo said,  "We'll see if she manages to improve the fit on her designs for the final runway."

 

As I see it, she can fit the outfits perfectly, but they are still butt-ugly! 

[PepperMonkey]

I totally agree with most of you about the mini runway show and the judges asking them to make changes with less than 48 hours remaining, EXCEPT:

 

The styling on Candice's, Edmond's and Kelly's models all needed to be fixed and that is a valuable insight for these finale shows. Remember how Gretchen actually WON the damn thing with flannel granny panties and big hats because she changed her STYLING???

 

Edmond's did not flatter his fashions at all, it was horrendous. Candice's was too fu manchu/Spock. Kelly's was not over the top enough to highlight the wonderful wack that was her collection. Sure, it was cheap looking, but I still think if she can get the styling just right, they will give her the win. If she goes full out huge afro-y hair and glitter makeup everywhere Nina will fall out of her chair in rapture, because it's all about the styling, not the clothes. (TM Project Runway since Season 8)

 

I'm still pulling for Edmond, but either him or Kelly would make me happy.

[Qoass]

It's so strange that they take two hours to show us all who these designers are and where they're from on "Road to the Runway" and then completely retro-fit their backstories to create a finale story later on.  Do they think we're amnesiac?  That said, Kelly's aesthetic is definitely Medford/Revere.

 

I can only say that while I liked something about each collection, I didn't love any of them enough to root for.  I think Kelly has the least chance of winning because her story is just that she's likable.  On the other hand you have Ashley doing the first plus-sized collection vs. Edmund who has tried out for every single season vs. Candace who has overcome a difficult childhood and could overcome a difficult pre-show review.

 

I think some of the confusion over what constitutes plus-size is the constant downsizing of women's sizes.  I'm the same size I've always been but what was called a size 12 in the 80s is now a size 8.

 

Almost forgot: shut up, Candace.

Edited November 2, 2015 by Qoass

[eurekagirl mOo]

Oh well just hold the phone......Candance is 27?????? Seriously?? I would have thought 37. Not trying to be mean but she really looks a LOT older then 27.

I missed the visit the house bit. I don't want to visit a beach or a restaurant. I want to see your home and your studio.

Kellys looks did look cheap. Very Hot Topic or Forever 21 or wherever the younger kids shop. Butt ugly all of it.

Some of Edmunds were beautiful. The black and white with the big bow? to die for. Just stay away from the scissors Edmund! Just because Heidi wants 90% of her body showing doesn't mean the rest of the world does.

Candance--UHHH I liked it, It was big and dramatic and good for a runway. I to think she should have gone MORE over the top,not less.Runway shows are not meant to be ready to wear. They are couture ...not meant for every day life unless your every day life is to be on the runway. 

And lastly Ashley.. I've been saying every week her personal style is ..well...less then flattering. And she's under the impression that plus size is just regular size only cut bigger. Nope. I'm a 12/14 and I wouldn't be caught dead with my tummy sticking out or my bra showing. And you want to ADD a heavy quilted fabric to a plus size waist??? Nope again. She has no idea how to sew, her construction is laughable and her taste is nonexistent. If Micheal Kors were still on she would have been out long,long ago.

[Nutjob]

Candice's explanation of her family history totally flipped the light switch on her whole persona for me, to be honest. It's all a put on, IMO--a carefully constructed façade to help her distance herself from her family's troubled, questionable past. I used to have a friend very much like her who was an aspiring musician, and her persona to the public was all a fake to hide her family history and some of her own past struggles. Doesn't make it right for her to be so critical and high/mighty, but I totally get it now.

 

This might be the worst F4 ever on this show. I like Kelly, but I just don't get her aesthetic at all. There is no mainstream market for what Candice does, and most of it looks like standard stage wear for the singers of various European symphonic metal bands (Floor Jansen and Sharon den Adel come to mind). Edmond's final collection is pretty, but boring. Seriously boring. And Ashley? Like so many others, I'm certainly not sold that she actually knows what flatters a plus sized figure. This season is largely a throwaway at this point, as far as I'm concerned.

[Pattycake2]

I love Tim's visits to the designers at home.  And he did give some solid advice to each of them.  He told Ashley that perhaps the floral crowns were best used only on some of the models - and those crowns were very Mexican.  Very Day of the Dead.  He told Candace that she was bordering on drag queen.  Tim told Edmund that some of his dresses were not airy, but heavy, and he told Kelly that the mesh was cheap looking and to be careful.  That all said, I'm pulling for Kelly.  A runway collection is supposed to be the distillation of a designers creativity, not particularly to be worn and Kelly's is certainly a representation of who and what she sees as design.    

[still hoping]

I am also rooting for Kelly (or Edmond I guess)

 

I think if a non plus size designer presented that collection they would be laughed at and "aufed"

 

It is a case of "empress has no clothes">>> they are afraid to tell Ashley just how much she has gone downhill  from her first design which won

Even that design - full skirt - crop top - "paperbag waist"...would make a slim model look heavier

 

I now wonder if Ashley's idea of "plus size" is to make women look plus size? I am not plus size but I am not a young 'un and I tried pulling up a shirt and tucking it

under (like a crop) and it made my boobs look bigger and my wast look thicker and cut off and made me look shorter and heavier

 

Think about it  - many of her designs even make the models - slim and plus - look cut off , bigger than they are...the back peekaboo of the beige "big girls" bra was totally unappealing. While not plus I have shopped Lane Bryant and Avenue for minimizer and larger/support bras so I "get it" ...I just do not  "get" Ashley's  vibe Note to Ashley - crop tops cut you off, tucking in your top into dirndl skirts looks ridiculous, showing a "support bra back" (3 or 4 rows of hook/eyes( is ludicrous

And the colors? OMG...the prints?? Geared to a baby's nursery or a retiremeent home

 pale washed out colors are so hard to wear for most women. They drain the color out of your face....they might flatter a natural platinum not gold b

blond or look good on an older womn with silver hair....and they look good on babIes... guess the young gals who dye their hair lavender or gray somewhat look ok but not really....notice that Ashley herself has to wear a ton of makeup to overcome the baby pastels she favors. Ugh

[halkatla]

Very pleasantly surprised by Candace, her three looks were great. Loved Kelly´s, with her (almost) every outfit is a good surprise. So retro, so young, so different <3 One of Edmund´s looks was ok, the first one, the other two were horrible. I almost don´t want to comment on Ashley´s... I think it was a huge mistake for her to try to make a plus size show. I´m plus size but I´m not that plus size and I´d never wear anything see through, looking at some fat stomach poking out through lace is horrible. Those clothes did not flatter fat women at all and the flower thing on top of their heads made them look extra clownish, not exactly what big girls need. The ideas she had might have looked good and been really original on regular models, and if well made they could be evolved into a plus size range, but as it is I think it looked awful.

Edited November 3, 2015 by halkatla

[Kromm]

This is totally off the mark, but I rematched the finale last night, and I was struck by how supportive the families of Edmond, Kelly and Ashley were...and how cold and blustery the family moment of Candice. 

Well I don't think we're going to get super-warm-fuzzies from a recovering addict, no matter what. That's a big burden you're putting on the lady.