S04.E04: Beyond Redemption

[bijoux]

That last gif is faulty. Where is Oliver's grin at Felicity's incense line?

[AyChihuahua]

Yeah, I think that's just her face.

However, resting bitchy face may be an acceptable condition for most people, but not ACTORS. Has NO ONE told KC that she should stop looking pissed off in all her scenes even though her character has no reason to be?

The scene gif'd up above is worse.  She totally death glares at O/F.  Plus, is that even "resting" bitchface?  She's not in the background chilling, waiting for her lines/waiting to boot up.  She's front and center, in a well-lit elevator. 

[Delphi]

I love the lair. Though, I really wish it had been Felicity who had done the work.

I have absolutely no problem with Ray trying to get in touch with her. He's tiny, I'd rather not be tiny as well. Plus I like the Atom on the phone nod to the comics. I don't think he's at the lair, I think it's exactly what Felicity said, her servers are just working the kinks out.

That entire scene with Oliver telling everyone about running was hilarious. And for those who wanted it Oliver himself mentioned that he didn't have a great academic record.

I love Thea. I love Willa. Slay girl. And while Verdant is presumably closed, I assume she still has all her social media contacts. She was a much better at running a business than Ollie, and good for Ollie not mentioning that they wouldn't have lost all their money if Thea wasn't being a brat.

Crooked cops? What is this Gotham City or Bludhaven? That story was weak. But I didn't mind this episode. I don't mind set up episodes. Things should get more interesting next week and we have the whole mayoral thing happening. If you guys hated it I recommend a rewatch of Midnight City to get some perspective.

Eta: by the way wasn't Laurel's reaction in the elevator due to being told that it was Blood's former lair?

Edited October 29, 2015 by Delphi

[SonofaBiscuit]

KC tends to make some bizarre acting choices.  In that first gif, she isn't even acknowledging the fact that Oliver is speaking.  Felicity nods her head and Thea & Dig both have their eyes and heads turned toward him.  KC just stares straight ahead, no change in expression or anything.  She appears as if she's daydreaming about something.  

Edited October 29, 2015 by SonofaBiscuit

[Chaser]

This is the first reminder of the ring since 4x01. Maybe they were filming this episode when KC found out Oliver and Laurel weren't going to hapoen. Like someone mentioned earlier, KC got her NOTP face on.

[Writing Wrongs]

I really wish they would ditch the flashbacks. It takes me right out of the moment.

 

So know one else ever goes to the basement of Laurel's apartment building?

[lemotomato]

The scene gif'd up above is worse.  She totally death glares at O/F.  Plus, is that even "resting" bitchface?  She's not in the background chilling, waiting for her lines/waiting to boot up.  She's front and center, in a well-lit elevator. 

¯\_(ツ)_/¯

I have no idea. I can't decide whether KC makes bad choices on how to play her scenes, or if she's incapable of more than two expressions-- angry or confused. Oh wait, three expressions: she has a good smug face when she fights as BC.

Edited October 29, 2015 by lemotomato

[nksarmi]

I didn't get any jealousy or anything from Laurel asking Felicity about what Thea thought she would be wearing. I think that was just used as a comedic type of moment, I guess, and to reiterate that Felicity has no idea but also that Laurel is clueless too. So Oliver only confided in Thea about proposing. 

Yea it was just a bit.  But I do agree with those who said it would have made more sense for Laurel to ask Thea - I don't think they would have gotten a chance to show the clueless Felicity moment if they did that.

[nksarmi]

Ok guys, I think you all are playing off each and making a bigger deal of that face than is needed.  She doesn't even look that pissed off to me.  In fact, Diggle's face is rather expressionless so it's only her face in contrast to - "Weeeee! A new lair!" Thea and "We are so happy and in love that everything makes us smile" Oliver and Felicity - that even really makes her look bitchy.  I don't remember her being bitchy once they were down in the lair.

 

But IF - and I don't even think this is the case - IF it was an acting choice, I would assign that look to being connected to Felicity's line of having to burn incense.  I mean Blood was into some crazy, violent, weird shit and tried to kill Laurel.  She's allowed to have a bad look on her face when remembering him.

[Password]

Funny enough Felicity seemed entirely clueless when Thea POINTED AT HER HAND and asked why she's not wearing it.

A scene between Thea and Laurel would've been funny because perhaps everyone else would know before Felicity. Then maybe DD could ask her "so when's the special day?" And she'd be all "what day?"

Running gag show.

[dtissagirl]

Ok guys, I think you all are playing off each and making a bigger deal of that face than is needed.

 

Nothing else happened in this snorefest, please let me have fun reading the Lolololaurel Face Decryption crowdsourcing?

[SonofaBiscuit]

Ok guys, I think you all are playing off each and making a bigger deal of that face than is needed.  She doesn't even look that pissed off to me.

 

 

But it's not even just this one instance?  Peruse some stills from the episodes, and it's hard to miss.  Arms crossed, pissy face...that's the Laurel aesthetic.

[AyChihuahua]

Ok guys, I think you all are playing off each and making a bigger deal of that face than is needed.  She doesn't even look that pissed off to me.  In fact, Diggle's face is rather expressionless so it's only her face in contrast to - "Weeeee! A new lair!" Thea and "We are so happy and in love that everything makes us smile" Oliver and Felicity - that even really makes her look bitchy.  I don't remember her being bitchy once they were down in the lair.

I'm going to go ahead and stick with my opinion, which is my opinion and not based on or increased by others' opinions.

[blixie]

I actually thought the episode was really entertaining and that Katie Cassidy was great. I liked the new Canary cry and that corny as fuck line she had about it. I liked Curtis/Felicity hanging out trying to figure out what's up with the phone/Ray's password.

 

Like let's be clear nothing really made sense but ti was fun and directed really well IMO. Oliver tryin' to be Mayor is hilars. 

 

It progressed things along a trajectory that ends with dead QL that makes me happy, which can only marginlize Laurel MORE. 

 

But best of all was Sally, sniff, aw I have missed you and Oliver together. 

 

I love dumbass Laurel being surprised Bad Ass soul less Sara got away, because she was keeping such a good eye on her. 

 

For once I liked Damien Dahrk, his mystical shit angle is the only thing I like about him so it was cool to see him not Bond villaining and just giving Quentin the straight but self serving answer about putting Sara out of her misery when he most certainly knows there are ways to cure her crazy/restore her soul.

 

I loved Oliver laying to Quentin, and that it did feel like a years in the making justifiable rant, and not just an episode specific DD driven thing. Can we just jump ahead to him dying already?

[Tara Ariano]

In case you missed it, here's the Previously.TV post on the episode!

 

Arrow Makes Friends Of Enemies
Also there's a new Arrowlair. And yes, it has a salmon ladder.

[lexicon]

Yeah, I think that's just her face.

However, resting bitchy face may be an acceptable condition for most people, but not ACTORS. Has NO ONE told KC that she should stop looking pissed off in all her scenes even though her character has no reason to be?

 

See, I see that expression on her face coupled with Oliver's 'There's a reason we had Felicity buy..." and all I can think is "Marcia Marcia Marcia..."

[nksarmi]

Nothing else happened in this snorefest, please let me have fun reading the Lolololaurel Face Decryption crowdsourcing?

LOL ok. :)

[TwistedandBored]

I don't know if I was meant to feel this way or not but I got depressed every time they showed us how and where Sara was being kept. I keep yelling at Captain Lance or her anyone else to rescue her from Laurel. Being kept in an empty, dark, and cold basement while chained to a wall is not going to make anyone remember anything but the need to just kill these people and get away from them. Soo freaking inhumane. 

 

Also, please stop down playing Oliver's skills as a fighter in order to make others shine. A better writer would find a way to do that. 

[jb0495]

I'm not a Laurel fan but don't hate her either. She's been nonexistant since S1, imo. I just watched S1-4x3 in a binge over 2 weeks/weekends. Don't know why I didn't get into this show sooner! Loved Oliver & Thea and the small Olicity moments.

I hope its QL in the grave, it certainly seems like it could be! I didn't mind Ray and can understand how Felicity would be feeling about his "death". They were close friends, she felt close enough to call him her boyfriend for however brief it was-not surprising that she would be emotional talking about him or listening to the recording.

Love Mr. Terrific, interesting that they made him a gay character.

I hope the episodes start to pick back up--this one wasn't too interesting. Can't wait to see when/how Oliver proposes!

Also, who is Sally? Everything sort of blends together when you binge.

[nksarmi]

I'm going to go ahead and stick with my opinion, which is my opinion and not based on or increased by others' opinions.

My comment wasn't meant to offend - it was just said after reading page after page of people seemingly one-upping each other in dissecting Laurel/KC's malfunctions.  I was just shaking my head going shesh, it wasn't THAT bad. 

 

I mean really I don't know why anyone is bitching about anything this season - if LAST season didn't lower people's expectations enough that this season looks like GOLD - I don't know how they are still watching.  I mean really upthread someone commented about the time it took to get from Palmer tech to the new office/lair???  How does this even register on a show where people jet back and forth from the West Coast to NP like they are hitching a ride with Superman airlines?

 

I guess I am just amazed than anyone expects BETTER than what we are getting enough to bitch about it.

[wingster55]

Maybe Laurel was just remembering Blood and what he did. Maybe she was impatient.

[arjumand]

 

One of the odd beats for me was the intercutting to Felicity listening to the recording and crying during Oliver's speech, when she was standing there in real time grinning at her adorable boyfriend in a suit.  It was a jarring juxtaposition, and added to the "cobbled together" feel of this episode.

 

That was so weird. I mean, I started wondering if I was seeing things now, or if Felicity's having flashbacks now, or flashforwards. Who the hell edits these things?

 

And it's still bugging me that Oliver is stabbed in the back, and controlled by a tiny, tiny woman with a length of wire, but a few seconds later gets up like it's no problem. And an hour later he's sneaking in to Lance's apartment and moving with no problems. I mean, at least wince a little, man. I fell off a chair the other day (look, the chairs where I work are crap, it was Monday morning, and I was under-caffeinated) and hit my shoulder on the wall behind me on the way down. Besides a massive bruise, my shoulder hurt like a motherfucker for the next week. And Oliver was stabbed! In the back! Close to his spine, or what bullshit was she spouting and ugh.

 

What I'm trying to say is, either he's incapacitated enough that a very very small lady can hold him on a leash, or he's fine. You can't have both in the same scene. Or you can, I guess. It just looks really stupid.

 

I miss the Oliver who used to take down an entire building of baddies, without a bow, while recovering from being dosed with Vertigo.

[statsgirl]

Random thoughts from the episode:

 

The sign on the office says "For Lease".  I know Oliver said Felicity bought it but why is the sign still up?

 

Oliver: Did you pay them?

Thea: That's why they're called interns.

I shouldn't find that offensive but I do.  If they're doing work that makes you money, interns should be paid.  Or maybe I'm so old that I remember when internships were paid, which is why they were called internships instead of "volunteers".

 

 

Diggle:  "Thea and I will do recognizance, see if CSI missed anything."

So now he and Thea are better CSIs than the professionals?

 

Why does Felicity have to fund the drug buy on top of everything else?  Thea still has Malcolm's billions, doesn't she?

 

Laurel is ziplining with Oliver now.  sigh. I remember when that was a signature Felicity thing.

 

Quentin giving Felicity complete access to police computers -- I thought she already hacked in to all of those.

 

Felicity:   "Oh my god,  this must be what talking to me is like."  Nicely played.

 

Why was Sara in the cold basement and not in Laurel's apartment where it's nice and warm?  Maybe she could watch some TV to help her calm down and get used to life again.

 

I"m glad Lance at least knew about DD being part of LoA and knowing about the Lazarus Pit. 

He played the heart condition card with Oliver. All I can say is, if after seeing Sara suddenly, learning that his cops are dirty, almost shooting Sara and being beat up by said cops and he's still alive, his heart has to be in pretty good condition.

 

If police money is so tight, they could have saved a bundle by not rebranding it into Star City and issuing everyone new gear.

 

Diggle's costume looked too much like the cops' ones and Oliver's still bugs me with the bare arms.  I'm beginning to think that Laurel's costume is the best of the new bunch. if only they would remove some of the buckles.

 

Why did Diggle, Thea and Laurel just walk away in the warehouse and not wait to see if Oliver is safe?

 

This show has a habit of giving actors good stuff just before it offs them (e.g. Tommy, Moira, Slade). And now Quentin's going to be a mole in DD's organization. The odds that it's him in that grave just shot through the roof.

 

"I guess you don't need Miranda rights."  Uh, I'm pretty sure she does.

 

Re Curtis talking about how much he would like to hear his brother's voice again:  In a strange coincidence, last week a friend told me about the Simon Fraser Oral History Project and that there was a 20 minute recording of my father's talking about his experiences emigrating.  My father died 16 years ago so to have a recording of his voice was a gift.

 

I understand why Felicity didn't want to hear Ray's voice and why she was crying, because it's a recent wound but I very much like that she listened in the end.

I don't think it was a big deal that she was crying because she did care for Ray and he loved her, and now he's gone.  We cry for our pets when they've died, crying for  Ray didn't lessen her relationship with Oliver any.

[quarks]

Also, who is Sally? Everything sort of blends together when you binge.

 

Sally is the nickname used by fans here and on some other sites for Oliver's salmon ladder. I don't think this nickname has been used (yet) on the show, but given that the writers started using Team Arrow after fans did, it might come up in future episodes.

[Happy Harpy]

Nothing else happened in this snorefest, please let me have fun reading the Lolololaurel Face Decryption crowdsourcing?

I lolololove your nickname for her.

[Tallis]

Well I'm about 20 hours behind everyone else because my normal (totally legal! *ahem*) method of watching let me down but I seem to disagree with pretty much everyone on the first page of this topic at least because I really enjoyed this one. I knew Rutina Wesley was appearing at some point but didn't realise it was this ep so really happy to see her. Less happy to realise it seems to be a one-off as I was under the impression it was a recurring role. Oh well. Damian continues to be the best baddie they have ever had on this show - and given I was *really* not looking forward to him, that's saying something. Loved Paul Blackthorne in this and although I still hate Lance and think he is basically irredeemable as a character at this point, his scenes with Stephen Amell were wonderful. Yay! to the new Lair (and the acknowledged Cisco involvement). Ray, if you are messing with the Lair's computers STOP IT right now, you ass. Loved that Thea thought the big announcement was Oliver and Felicity's engagement - and that it passed completely over both Felicity and Laurel's heads. Did I mention I loved the Lance/Oliver scenes?

 

Flashbacks: still don't care. Sara: can't get interested till next week. Curtis: likeable but kind of exhausting in a new puppy way.

[Andromeda]

So Laurel sticks her sister in a dungeon and chains her up, and expects her to become normal again? I had to laugh when she finally does get a reaction from Sara, instead of answering her question, she turns her back on her and grins at her dad. Talk to Sara, she's trying to communicate! No wonder Sara attacked her.

 

Love the new digs, amaaazing! I also love that Oliver is running for Mayor.

 

But mostly I love that Oliver found out about Lance's secret, and they talked it out. I like when they work together.
 

[Delphi]

I'm not complaining! :D

I'm loving every second of this not season three train wreck.

I know I already mentioned it but I love Thea's enthusiasm. It's quite infectious to be honest.

And I don't think Felicity crying a little over Ray is an issue in the least. Sure people see him as a creep, but Felicity dated him, not liking Ray can't erase that. She wasn't in love with him but she liked him, they were friends for a year. I cried my eyes out when my boyfriends friend died and I'd only known him for a few months.

I like that Lance is part of the team, but I'd really like someone to just go, "Oh, thanks for arresting my protege/boyfriend and letting him get murdered in prison, doucheface"

[apinknightmare]

My comment wasn't meant to offend - it was just said after reading page after page of people seemingly one-upping each other in dissecting Laurel/KC's malfunctions. I was just shaking my head going shesh, it wasn't THAT bad.

I mean really I don't know why anyone is bitching about anything this season - if LAST season didn't lower people's expectations enough that this season looks like GOLD - I don't know how they are still watching. I mean really upthread someone commented about the time it took to get from Palmer tech to the new office/lair??? How does this even register on a show where people jet back and forth from the West Coast to NP like they are hitching a ride with Superman airlines?

I guess I am just amazed than anyone expects BETTER than what we are getting enough to bitch about it.

This is a discussion board, and we're discussing the show? Pointing out ridiculous plot points and working through them isn't bitching? The speed with which these people move from place to place is a valid point of discussion no matter where the points of origin/destinations are. Not sure why it bothers you that people are talking about these things on a site that's designed specifically for us to talk about them.

[KenyaJ]

Oliver: Did you pay them?

Thea: That's why they're called interns.

I shouldn't find that offensive but I do.  If they're doing work that makes you money, interns should be paid.  

 

But it's a political campaign, not a business. And a local campaign, at that. Oliver will have paid staffers, of course, but a mayoral campaign office being overrun by interns is maybe the most accurate thing about this storyline so far.

[blixie]

 

if LAST season didn't lower people's expectations enough that this season looks like GOLD

 

Yeeep. Yep, yep,yep. I am loving this season, it's so much better than last year. And Katie is really impressing me and reminding me why I liked her before Arrow. Unfortunately Laurel as written is still a wreck, but if she continues to be marginalized in each ep to A) landing a truck, B)nodding her  head next to GA, and C)throwing a Canary Cry w/o every really having a storyline, than GREAT. Killing off her Dad and moving her sister to another show? Extra hot GREAT. I'll enjoy her as some kind of glorified bitchy extra. Just quite asking me to care/pay attention to her. 

[Tallis]

Oh and shallow but I really *really* want Felicity's shoes that she wears with the black and white stripe Sandro dress. Not identified on any of the Arrow fashion sites yet and will probably turn out to be either prohibitively expensive or sold out when they are but WANT.

[apinknightmare]

But it's a political campaign, not a business. And a local campaign, at that. Oliver will have paid staffers, of course, but a mayoral campaign office being overrun by interns is maybe the most accurate thing about this storyline so far.

Yeah, and those people agreed to work on the campaign as unpaid interns, so if they had a problem with not getting paid, they wouldn't be there.

[AyChihuahua]

My comment wasn't meant to offend - it was just said after reading page after page of people seemingly one-upping each other in dissecting Laurel/KC's malfunctions.  I was just shaking my head going shesh, it wasn't THAT bad.

 

I mean really I don't know why anyone is bitching about anything this season - if LAST season didn't lower people's expectations enough that this season looks like GOLD - I don't know how they are still watching.  I mean really upthread someone commented about the time it took to get from Palmer tech to the new office/lair???  How does this even register on a show where people jet back and forth from the West Coast to NP like they are hitching a ride with Superman airlines?

 

I guess I am just amazed than anyone expects BETTER than what we are getting enough to bitch about it.

 

Also, saying everyone's opinion that is not yours is wrong and overwrought is not inviting discussion, it's shutting it down. 

But it's a political campaign, not a business. And a local campaign, at that. Oliver will have paid staffers, of course, but a mayoral campaign office being overrun by interns is maybe the most accurate thing about this storyline so far.

I think they'd have no problem getting unpaid interns.  Getting to hang out with Thea and Oliver Queen?  They'd have a line out the door of people dying to sign up for that.

Edited October 29, 2015 by AyChihuahua

[Racj82]

I never know how to anticipate reactions TV. Over on AV Club this got A- rating and a lot of support. Here, its a boring snoozefest. You just never know. I'm glad to see the team working well together, I loved that Thea and Diggle basically went undercover as their season one selves. I loved that Oliver Smackdown. I'm glad Oliver continues to not be a stick in the mud. Thea's enthusiasm for the superhero stuff is always welcome. They continue to make Laurel the least effective fighter on the team which makes perfect sense. Felicity isn't just the girlfriend or just the techie. She has her own stuff going on which I appreciate. Not because she's a woman. I just like characters to have multiple functions and goals. Secrets are out far faster than usual. Good fight scenes. I don't know. I really enjoyed it just like I usually do with this show.

[Password]

Yeeep. Yep, yep,yep. I am loving this season, it's so much better than last year. And Katie is really impressing me and reminding me why I liked her before Arrow. Unfortunately Laurel as written is still a wreck, but if she continues to be marginalized in each ep to A) landing a truck, B)nodding her head next to GA, and C)throwing a Canary Cry w/o every really having a storyline, than GREAT. Killing off her Dad and moving her sister to another show? Extra hot GREAT. I'll enjoy her as some kind of glorified bitchy extra. Just quite asking me to care/pay attention to her.

We're in the same corner. If the writers want me to laugh at Laurel I will humbly oblige. I've found her extremely entertaining this season. I simply can't wait to see the end of this resurrection Sara arc.

[morakot]

Perhaps Laurel was upset because when she was dating Sebastian Blood he never told her about his lair but his friend Oliver (and his girlfriend) did know.

 

I'm guessing the apartments in Laurel's building are fairly well soundproofed -- she's had people break in through windows and doors and hasn't been kicked out -- why isn't she letting Sara stay there? The one bedroom place may be crowded (is Thea sleeping on the couch?) but Thea knows about Sara, and, if necessary could either help her with Sara or go move into the giant loft with Oliver and Felicity. If she needed to be chained up, couldn't she be chained up in the bedroom rather than on a cold concrete floor in a damp, dark basement?

[Racj82]

Perhaps Laurel was upset because when she was dating Sebastian Blood he never told her about his lair but his friend Oliver (and his girlfriend) did know.

I'm guessing the apartments in Laurel's building are fairly well soundproofed -- she's had people break in through windows and doors and hasn't been kicked out -- why isn't she letting Sara stay there? The one bedroom place may be crowded (is Thea sleeping on the couch?) but Thea knows about Sara, and, if necessary could either help her with Sara or go move into the giant loft with Oliver and Felicity. If she needed to be chained up, couldn't she be chained up in the bedroom rather than on a cold concrete floor in a damp, dark basement?

I have to admit, this is a question I don't have. She's completely unstable. Second, Thea is the one that technically killed her so she will have bloodlust for Thea who is with her and most of the group aren't supposed to know yet. A surprise visit blows that up. She's not a human right now. She's basically like a rabid animal at this point. I don't know why you would put that in your house. I also don't care what she's wearing. That should be the least of anybody's concerns on the show.

[nksarmi]

Also, saying everyone's opinion that is not yours is wrong and overwrought is not inviting discussion, it's shutting it down. 

 

Look really I'm not trying to be confrontational here, but I never said everyone who doesn't agree with me is wrong.  I just said, I don't get what all the bitching is about.  This season is so FAR and above the crap they delivered last year - I honestly don't get it. 

 

But to be 100% honest, the constant bashing on Laurel/KC just gets old.  And it would be kind of nice if the dissecting of her particular facial expression or eye twitch could be restricted to her thread - which I won't even venture into.  That comment of course is not aimed directly at you - it's just after three pages, please someone just say "hey let's take the Laurel dissection to her thread so people who want to talk about the episode as a whole don't have to suffer through it!"

[statsgirl]

 

She's completely unstable.

 

Laurel is convinced that in a couple of days, Sara's head will clear up and she'll be like she was before.  If that's the case, wouldn't it make more sense to have her in the apartment she used to live in (s2), where it's warm and there are things that will help her get her back to what she was, instead of being chained in the cold basement with a bunch of photographs on the floor?  Not to mention, Thea knows about the need to get back at the person who killed you, Laurel doesn't as far as we know.

 

And since that clearly and apartment building from the corridor, what about if someone else came down to the basement for something? Maybe the janitor because there's a problem with the lights or plumbing?

 

I guess Thea is going to be the person dealing with Oliver's campaign.  Felicity's got PT,  Diggle's got his HIVE/brother storyline and Laurel's got Sara.  All of Team Arrow multi-tasking.

 

But it's a political campaign, not a business. And a local campaign, at that. Oliver will have paid staffers, of course, but a mayoral campaign office being overrun by interns is maybe the most accurate thing about this storyline so far.

 

I think they'd have no problem getting unpaid interns.  Getting to hang out with Thea and Oliver Queen?  They'd have a line

out the door of people dying to sign up for that.

 

Maybe it's a problem of terms then.  Speaking as someone who just spent a whole bunch of hours as a volunteer for a political campaign earlier this year and who has had unpaid practica and paid internships for my profession,  there's the implication that an intern is there to learn the ropes but also to help the company with real work.  If they're doing real work that makes the company money, they should get paid.  I remember back when I was in the newsroom at Global TV, they reduced the copy clerk employee workforce down 30% from the book amount because they got journalism students to work for free who were hoping to get jobs at the end of it.  (The boss got a good raise though.)

 

Also, "volunteers" sounds like people who are working because it's something they believe in and they're willing to give up their time for it.  "Interns" sounds like people who are in it to get something for themselves.

 

The last time I talked to a second year medical student, he was angry that he was only being paid something above minimum wage.  Can you imagine a medical intern's reaction to someone saying he should work for free?   Legal interns also get paid, at least they do here.

 

Volunteers work for free, interns should get paid.

 

Goldman Sachs reduced their unpaid interns to working only 17 hours a day after that 21 year old young man died after working for 72 hours straight. Unpaid.  It's not like Goldman Sachs doesn't have money to pay these people (hello, billion dollar bailout) but they choose play on the desperation of people trying to get a good job.  Let's give internships and interns the valuation they deserve.  [/ rant]

Edited October 29, 2015 by statsgirl

[AyChihuahua]

The writers didn't even see any problem with a billion-dollar corporation at least initially entirely funding the mayoral campaign of the CEO's boyfriend.  They suck, is my point.  I'm just going to go with the campaign workers being volunteers and not interns, seeing as how Thea found them through her nightclub's social media and boom, a day later they were all there...no paperwork or internship system setup required.

[wonderwall]

An issue I'm having with Felicity being rich is that, why is she spending so much when PT is essentially 'flirting with bankruptcy'??? Ugh. Writers don't think things through. 

[Tallis]

I think they'd have no problem getting unpaid interns.  Getting to hang out with Thea and Oliver Queen?  They'd have a line out the door of people dying to sign up for that.

And that's without mentioning the hot bodyguard lurking in the back of all those pictures of Oliver and Thea...

[apinknightmare]

Good fight scenes. I don't know. I really enjoyed it just like I usually do with this show.

I enjoyed it, but also found it to be kind of a slog? It's weird, so much was happening, but when I looked at the clock I was like, "How are we not even halfway through yet?" I guess maybe it's a matter of engagement in the storyline - I liked the mayoral stuff and the lair stuff, but the crooked cop plotline didn't grab me, and I generally hate Quentin, so I didn't really care about him finding redemption with Oliver, although at the same time I thought Paul Blackthorne put in a really good performance. Last night's ep was weird like that for me.

[nksarmi]

statsgirl - I totally get your rant but the biggest difference between interns and volunteers is usually the fact that interns are earning college credit. When I was working on my masters I was fortunate to get a paid internship. 

 

Now of course the really fun thing about unpaid internships is that you typically have to pay for the college course that you are receiving credit for - so in essence, an unpaid intern is kind of paying to work for free.  Not fun. 

 

Oh and my impression about Thea and the nightclub was that when she owned it, she got a bunch of followers and then she just sent out a message requesting volunteers/interns for her brother's campaign and bam! full campaign office.

Edited October 29, 2015 by nksarmi

[Racj82]

I enjoyed it, but also found it to be kind of a slog? It's weird, so much was happening, but when I looked at the clock I was like, "How are we not even halfway through yet?" I guess maybe it's a matter of engagement in the storyline - I liked the mayoral stuff and the lair stuff, but the crooked cop plotline didn't grab me, and I generally hate Quentin, so I didn't really care about him finding redemption with Oliver, although at the same time I thought Paul Blackthorne put in a really good performance. Last night's ep was weird like that for me.

Hey, if Quentin is sometimes a enjoyment issue for a person, I see that viewpoint. There is still so much going on that a thing or two I could do without doesn't really mess with my viewing. I mean, I still give zero shits about the flashbacks and I don't really care about the Lance family as a whole but all I can ask for is the good to outweigh the bad. But miles vary of course.

[apinknightmare]

Hey, if Quentin is sometimes a enjoyment issue for a person, I see that viewpoint. There is still so much going on that a thing or two I could do without doesn't really mess with my viewing. I mean, I still give zero shits about the flashbacks and I don't really care about the Lance family as a whole but all I can ask for is the good to outweigh the bad. But miles vary of course.

No, I get you. I didn't think it was bad at all, just boring. But I think that's more to do with what I enjoy out of the show personally (which there wasn't a lot of last night) than actual quality. If that makes any sense.

[txwatcher]

Yeah the poorly "hidden" satchel was very unArrow like. Other than that I loved this episode. Can't wait for Constantine walk on next week.

[Racj82]

No, I get you. I didn't think it was bad at all, just boring. But I think that's more to do with what I enjoy out of the show personally (which there wasn't a lot of last night) than actual quality. If that makes any sense.

Yeah, I get that. Hopefully it picks up next week for more people.

[SmallScreenDiva]

Which would be fine if all I was interested in seeing was Felicity and Oliver together as a couple. Make no mistake I love me some Olicity but seeing Felicity as an important and contributing member of the Team is important too and sending her off to PT to banter with Curtis or look for Ray and then only popping up to hack for the few minutes necessary to track down the location of the team's next mission, is  not enough. The Arrow and team Arrow that I fell in love with had Felicity as an integral member. That was reduced last season as she was sidelined because of the need to prop RP and I'm fearful it'll happen again this year. 

 

Oh, I didn't take Laura's words to just mean Felicity/Oliver as a couple-couple. It goes past the actual relationship. By virtue of being half of the main couple, Felicity will be in the know and more connected. I'm not sure I'm explaining this properly, LOL. Anyway, I think we're getting Felicity as an important and contributing member of the team. The last 3 eps specifically highlighted some things the team wouldn't have been able to do without her (can't recall if there was one in this ep, though). But it's not going to be like it was in the past, just because there are so many more people in the lair now and "everyone" has to have their contribution. I am looking forward to her getting her own arc soon, though. I don't think it's going to be just about PT, but will tie into the main DD story.

 

To keep on topic, there was one Olicity scene in this ep that kinda bugged me: the salmon ladder scene. I couldn't figure out why earlier but now I know why it irked me a bit. The writers basically repeated couple of beats Felicity had with Ray last season. Her being speechless over Oliver in the salmon ladder (Felicity did the same hand to forehead gesture with Ray) and Oliver asking her if she was OK after noticing her crinkling her eyebrows (Ray made the same observation in 3x20, I think). I'm not saying a shirtless Oliver shouldn't render Felicity speechless anymore, but why is she hiding her reaction? I guess I expected the exchange to be a bit more flirty. I mean, sweaty Oliver seems to be her jam from the season premiere ;) Although I guess it being in the lair they wanted to be super professional? It was slightly saved by what I see as Oliver showing off for the wifey. He definitely was trying to hide a smirk.