S04.E04: Beyond Redemption

[Chaser]

I just saw the gif of Oliver and Laurel zip-lining. LOL

 

Was it that funny in real time? It looked mechanical. They didn't even look at each other.

[Primal Slayer]

Which episodes were you speaking of? Because they had about a minute of time in the last couple of eps, too. The most amount of time spent on O/F as a couple was in the premiere, and Laurel hadn't thought about grave robbing at that point, so it didn't steal time from this storyline. 

It's the fact that they take time and effort into developing them, which is fine and dandy while everything else is rushed over. It has nothing to do with them stealing time from this storyline. Basically all of my anger is just how they treat Laurels storylines with crap majority of the time.

Edited October 29, 2015 by Primal Slayer

[wonderwall]

I started watching the Republican debate in the middle of the episode. Do you understand the seriousness of that statement? That's how bored and uninterested I was. The Republican debate!

IDK man. Trump can be very entertaining. 

[SmallScreenDiva]

Not really. There are plenty of shows that allow their supporting characters to grow just as much as their main character and take center stage time from time.

 

There's truth in that, actually. Like in this ep, Quentin got a chance to shine. But, IMO, it still has to be Oliver's show, Oliver's story. That ridiculous BC arc last year showed Arrow is at its weakest when the spotlight it taken away from Oliver Queen.

[Angel12d]

How nice of Laurel to keep her sister in a dark basement. Like she didn't even keep the lights on or give the girl a blanket. Just because she's cray cray doesn't mean she can't feel the cold, Laurel. Ugh, she's the worst.

 

 

I just saw the gif of Oliver and Laurel zip-lining. LOL

 

Was it that funny in real time? It looked mechanical. They didn't even look at each other.

 

 

FANSERVICE. LMAO. Hey, I'm allowed to call it as I see it too, right? Honestly though, I must have turned away from the screen because I didn't even notice it. Haha.

[apinknightmare]

It's the fact that they take time and effort into developing them, which is fine and dandy while everything else is rushed over. It has nothing to do with them stealing time from this storyline. 

 

They aren't really developing them though, that's my point. We found out what they were up to over the summer, we know that they live together, and that Felicity was the first person he told about wanting to run for mayor. That's pretty much it four eps in? 

Edited October 29, 2015 by apinknightmare

[wonderwall]

It's the fact that they take time and effort into developing them, which is fine and dandy while everything else is rushed over. It has nothing to do with them stealing time from this storyline. 

 

Did you not see last season? That is where most of their development should've taken place. And Olicity took a major hit last season where fans complained that it was too 'rushed'. 

 

S4 is about them already developed to the point where Oliver wants to marry Felicity. 

 

They don't have a lot of screentime, and the issue here ISN'T olicity like you claim, it's the fact that they just don't care about Laurel Lance. Either that or they are rushing this development because this show isn't about Laurel, it's about Oliver and that her arc was always meant to be the B-Plot which obviously means it won't be as thorough. That's a structural issue, not an Olicity one. 

Edited October 29, 2015 by wonderwall

[Chaser]

How nice of Laurel to keep her sister in a dark basement. Like she didn't even keep the lights on or give the girl a blanket. Just because she's cray cray doesn't mean she can't feel the cold, Laurel. Ugh, she's the worst.

 

 

 

 

FANSERVICE. LMAO. Hey, I'm allowed to call it as I see it too, right? Honestly though, I must have turned away from the screen because I didn't even notice it. Haha.

Total FanService.

 

It looked so awkward it was funny. You could tell they were thinking of England.

[dtissagirl]

Also great:

 

Laurel takes Lance down to her creepy basement where she keeps her zombie feral sister in chains. Lance's reaction: Low-key what? Laurel? Sara? What?

 

Oliver sits in the dark in Lance's apartment. Lance's reaction: OH MY GOD WHAT THE FUCK I HAVE A HEART CONDITION I COULD HAVE DROPPED DEAD RIGHT HERE RIGHT NOW ARE YOU TRYING TO KILL ME?

[calliope1975]

It's the fact that they take time and effort into developing them, which is fine and dandy while everything else is rushed over. It has nothing to do with them stealing time from this storyline. 

 

I could agree with this if TPTB had shown any kind of competency in writing for the supporting characters, but they haven't. The show suffers when OQ isn't the focus. I don't know if it's because they're incompetent or have no interest in changing the focus. Lance was the focus tonight, and it was a snoozefest. I take it back - the Suicide Squad episodes were pretty good. Maybe they just can't or won't write for specific characters.

 

IDK man. Trump can be very entertaining. 

 

He's his own supervillain who thinks he's the hero. OMG, he's Malcolm Merlyn!

[MuuMuuChainsmoker]

Ok, the discussion is going in circles.  Time for everyone involved in the "More Oliver vs More Supporting Character(s)" debate to hang back and silently be convinced of the rightness of their own position without trying to convince anyone else. 

 

[Angel12d]

Total FanService.

 

It looked so awkward it was funny. You could tell they were thinking of England.

 

Hey, I don't begrudge it. I hope their fans were good and serviced. LOL. ;P

[Chaser]

BABY!

[catrox14]

 

Not really. There are plenty of shows that allow their supporting characters to grow just as much as their main character and take center stage time from time.

 

That's true. But in shows that are not ensemble pieces like ARROW, supporting characters need to be in service of the main character's arc even with their own development.  That happened this episode with Lance.  Last season they basically excised Oliver for several episodes in order to advance Laurel to Black Canary. Now she's just doing batshit crazy stuff but she actually does have her own SL.

[Angel12d]

Ok, the discussion is going in circles.  Time for everyone involved in the "More Oliver vs More Supporting Character(s)" debate to hang back and silently be convinced of the rightness of their own position without trying to convince anyone else. 

 

 

I've gotta say, I prefer ragey baby.

[apinknightmare]

Hey, I don't begrudge it. I hope their fans were good and serviced. LOL. ;P

 

I hope he shot that zipline into the MOON.

[MuuMuuChainsmoker]

I've gotta say, I prefer ragey baby.

 

Ragey baby still makes me laugh, but he is resting up until he's really needed.  :)

[Chaser]

Ragey baby still makes me laugh, but he is resting up until he's really needed.  :)

I have a feeling Ragey will be back for 4x05. 

[kismet]

Loved PB & SA moments, they really were phenomenal & well acted. I loved that they were 4 years coming and in the brief minutes it took up on the show it actually covered a lot of basis.

[Cthulhudrew]

Funny how opinions differ. This was actually my favorite episode since #1 (I think), since for once it didn't feel like half the episode was setting up Legends. Or at least when it was doing that (Ray references, Sara) it wasn't as heavy handed and awkward about it as the last couple have been.

 

Glad they finally did something with the running for Mayor bit that Ollie dropped back at the end of ep 2 and didn't even acknowledge last week. The SuperBad Cops were kind of meh, to me, but otherwise, I thought the episode was pretty good.

 

On another note, for some reason I thought Diggle's mask was a helmet, but this week it was clearly just a facemask, which seems kind of... odd.

[Angel12d]

Ragey baby still makes me laugh, but he is resting up until he's really needed.  :)

 

D'aww. Ok. He can sleep for now. :)

I hope he shot that zipline into the MOON.

 

We can only hope. 

[kismet]

I've got to say my favorite resurrection this season so far has been the Resurrection of SALLY!!! All hail the genius in the writers' room that thought to save us from the stupid of that other resurrection story by giving us back one of the show's True Loves!! :)

 

Bonus - No chains required for this resurrection.... :) They are optional for later of course, should the moment lend itself ;)

[wonderwall]

Ok, the discussion is going in circles.  Time for everyone involved in the "More Oliver vs More Supporting Character(s)" debate to hang back and silently be convinced of the rightness of their own position without trying to convince anyone else. 

 

 

DAMN YOU AND YOUR BABY PICS. THEY WORK SO WELL :p

[KenyaJ]

Funny how opinions differ. This was actually my favorite episode since #1 (I think), since for once it didn't feel like half the episode was setting up Legends. Or at least when it was doing that (Ray references, Sara) it wasn't as heavy handed and awkward about it as the last couple have been.

 

It is funny.  :-)  I felt like all they were doing in this episode was setting up LoT and setting up Quentin's redemption so he can die in a few episodes.  And since I don't care about LoT or Quentin (anymore), it was total snoozeville for me.

Edited October 29, 2015 by KenyaJ

[catrox14]

 

IDK man. Trump can be very entertaining.

 

He's his own supervillain who thinks he's the hero. OMG, he's Malcolm Merlyn!

 

Whoooooaaaa.  Now, look, Malcolm Merlyn is a dick but no one deserves to be compared to Trump.  :(

[BunsenBurner]

Yeah, EBR went a bit over the top with the Ray thing. We know she wasn't in love with Ray seeing as that was a whole plot point in s3 but the tears were too much. I can understand her not wanting to relive things or hear his voice but at the same time I was like, huh? That whole thing made me uncomfortable. I'm not worried though, I feel like I should stress that. But EBR definitely overplayed it which I had a feeling she would anyway. 

I really don't think EBR went over the top on the Ray thing.  She didn't want to hear his last words and she might not have done it if Curtis hadn't told her the story about his brother. IMO she acted appropriately for that scene. She also is probably overwhelmed by everything that is going on in her life so crying is her go to for  relief. I also liked the way she looked when she cried this time it looked real.

[apinknightmare]

It is funny.  :-)  I felt like all they were doing in this episode was setting up LoT and setting up Quentin's redemption so he can die in a few episodes.  And since I don't care about LoT or Quentin (anymore), it was total snoozeville for me.

 

Yeah, that's how I took it too. 

 

The reason this LoT setup is so shitty is because they're writing this crap as a means to an end - to get these people back so they can go on another show. All of this will be completely moved past after 3x09, so of course they're not giving anything its just due, because in 5 eps none of it will matter anymore and they can move on. 

[Angel12d]

I really don't think EBR went over the top on the Ray thing.  She didn't want to hear his last words and she might not have done it if Curtis hadn't told her the story about his brother. IMO she acted appropriately for that scene. She also is probably overwhelmed by everything that is going on in her life so crying is her go to for  relief. I also liked the way she looked when she cried this time it looked real.

 

In all fairness (to me LMAO) I just hate everything to do with Ray. And I don't like that, once again, Felicity is being used to service his journey to LoT. 

 

But I do understand why she would be hesitant to listen or whatever. I said as much in a previous comment too. :)

[wonderwall]

Yeah, that's how I took it too. 

 

The reason this LoT setup is so shitty is because they're writing this crap as a means to an end - to get these people back so they can go on another show. All of this will be completely moved past after 3x09, so of course they're not giving anything its just due, because in 5 eps none of it will matter anymore and they can move on. 

 

I have a feeling this season will be like S1 where the first half was meh, and the second half will be awesome. 

[Angel12d]

Yeah, that's how I took it too. 

 

The reason this LoT setup is so shitty is because they're writing this crap as a means to an end - to get these people back so they can go on another show. All of this will be completely moved past after 3x09, so of course they're not giving anything its just due, because in 5 eps none of it will matter anymore and they can move on. 

 

This. I just want Arrow back to being about Arrow. I feel like it's being held hostage right now by LoT and it SUCKS. If there were lasting consequences of the things happening to set this up, I'd be more accommodating and accepting but we all know everything will be back to normal once

Ray and Sara are shipped off on their time ship or whatever the hell they're doing

.

Edited October 29, 2015 by Angel12d

[BunsenBurner]

In all fairness (to me LMAO) I just hate everything to do with Ray. And I don't like that, once again, Felicity is being used to service his journey to LoT. 

 

But I do understand why she would be hesitant to listen or whatever. I said as much in a previous comment too. :)

I can't stand Ray so I'm in agreement with you. Just wanted to put my two cents in! 

[dtissagirl]

A summary of this episode, in GIF form:

 

[wonderwall]

 

I really loved this moment :p Most of all, I love how every episode manages to have cute moments like this without getting in the way of plot :') This is all I've ever wanted out of Olicity

[Chaser]

I haven't seen the episode but I'm youtubing the Lair reveal scenes. Felicity is looking adorable. 

[catrox14]

 

I really loved this moment :p Most of all, I love how every episode manages to have cute moments like this without getting in the way of plot :') This is all I've ever wanted out of Olicity

 

These two. All my heart eyes

[SmallScreenDiva]

You know what? It does help. *cuddles moment forever*

 

 

Thought you might enjoy this ;)

 

Ooops, didn't see those GIFS posted, HAHAHA!

Edited October 29, 2015 by SmallScreenDiva

[Primal Slayer]

I guess the team rarely has to suit up during the day since having your new lair in your base of operations for your campaign, is not smart. And I didn't get Felicity using company funds to endorse Oliver when they aren't in the best position to be doing so at the moment.

[Angel12d]

 

Thought you might enjoy this ;)

 

Ooops, didn't see those GIFS posted, HAHAHA!

 

I did. I do. You know me well. *heart eyes emoji*

[EmeraldArcher]

A summary of this episode, in GIF form:

I find EBR's acting choices a little too, um, effusive. Wouldn't a simple crossed-arms stance and stink eye convey that Oliver has committed yet another act of dumbass-ery? I feel like I've been systematically programmed to react to Oliver's decisions whenever I see a rigid pose with crossed arms...huh, can't think why.

EDITED: Because "systemically" and "systematically" are not the same thing--damned clumsy fingers and autocorrect!

Edited October 29, 2015 by EmeraldArcher

[Chaser]

Watching this episode in gifs is the best thing ever.

 

Laurel screaming at the guy and blowing him over. HAHAHAHA

[apinknightmare]

I guess the team rarely has to suit up during the day since having your new lair in your base of operations for your campaign, is not smart. And I didn't get Felicity using company funds to endorse Oliver when they aren't in the best position to be doing so at the moment.

 

Especially since they made it pretty clear that Felicity herself has money now. 

[Angel12d]

Watching this episode in gifs is the best thing ever.

 

Laurel screaming at the guy and blowing him over. HAHAHAHA

 

That was such a poser moment too. I thought for one moment she was in a L'Oreal ad with all the hair flipping she did. 

[quarks]

 A few strong scenes here and there, but overall, I don't think this is going to go down as one of Arrow's better episodes.

 

Good things:

 

1. Yes to the Neil Adams shoutout. That was fun. I understand that he tunes into Arrow now and then, so I hope he saw it or someone forwards the clip to him.

 

2. Also, yay new Arrow Cave! And let's give a shoutout to Cisco for helping with it.

 

3. And yay, the salmon ladder is back and safe!  The one true love of Oliver and Sally is back with us!  And Felicity is back ogling it!

 

4. Damien Darkh continues to be great. I loved how he managed to come across as both sensible and compassionate while advocating murder. Slick, Damien. Slick.  

 

5. Loved that Thea knew about the ring and assumed that was the announcement, and Oliver's attempt to mentally think at her "Don't bring this up now."  Also loved their later moment in the campaign offices, and Thea writing his campaign speech. This is turning out to be a solid season for Thea, at least.

 

6. Evil flashback guy has found the ARGUS communication device, so we might - might! - have some plot movement on this front.

 

7. This was definitely the Quentin Lance episode, and despite having to work through a plot line of evil cops who were not exactly making a lot of sense, Paul Blackthorne made the most of this. His confrontations with Oliver were pretty strong, as was their final scene where Oliver told Lance to keep working with Damien.  And he got the official Welcome To Team Arrow Handshake. I was less fond of his speech to Evil Cop Lady, but Blackthorne did what he could with it. I also really liked his bitter realization that despite all of his work, so many city cops had given up. 

 

8. It was corny and filled with way too many callbacks to past episodes, but I admit - I kinda liked Oliver's mayoral speech. There. I've said it.

 

Questionable things:

 

1. I know that we saw Oliver use that knock a person out to the point where the person looks dead in the first season, but only in the present day timeline with the Bratva, right?  When, exactly, did he learn this in the flashbacks? He was struggling with just shooting a bow in the first year on the island; I don't think that Slade, Shado or Sara or anyone else knew this the second year, and ARGUS was teaching him how to torture people and break through windows, so how does flashback Oliver know this now?

 

2. Also, where is the Baron guy? Why is flashback Oliver dealing with lesser evil guys?

 

3. Wait, Thea owns a club again? Does this mean Verdant is open?

 

4. I know that Laurel and Thea managed to smuggle a corpse into New Jersey without anyone noticing, but how did they smuggle a raving, chained up woman out of New Jersey without anyone noticing? And if we're still meant to think that Nanda Parbat is outside the U.S. (I've stopped thinking this, but I think that's still supposed to be the general idea) look, I'm the first to agree that U.S. Customs and Immigration and Homeland Security misses things all the time, but a raving woman in chains trying to bite people and strangle them?  This is not really not like the typical person trying to sneak across the U.S. border.

 

5. Speaking of logistical issues, great that Cisco helped, but I'm still trying to figure out exactly how Oliver, Felicity and Cisco, within the last month, managed to buy up Sebastian Blood's headquarters, clean it up, install all of the wiring and other stuff, and get all that heavy furniture and other things down there without anyone noticing? Even if Oliver bought Blood's headquarters earlier (which he probably couldn't have, last season, and wouldn't have, over the summer, since he was busy not vigilanting) or even if he got them at a major discount because they were associated with an Evil Dude, this still seems awfully fast. And why did they take Barry's costume slot away? That seemed mean.

 

6. And speaking of wiring issues, RAY. WE TALKED ABOUT THIS. A LOT. Hacking into Felicity's phone was bad enough, but INTERRUPTING TEAM ARROW when they are trying to catch bad guys because YOU have electrical problems and didn't follow basic safety standards when testing weird things with your suit is 50 SHADES OF WRONG, DUDE.

 

7. What was with that stopping to pose for a group shot at the end of your fight scene, Team Arrow plus Quentin?

 

8. And Evil Cop Lady, I get that Delusional Thoughts are a side effect of being on this show, but how exactly do you square away getting drugs and putting guns into people's faces with not being a criminal?

 

Bad things:

 

1. Holy television gods, Arrow. Announcing, in script, to your audience, that you are reusing a set is one thing. (Especially since the set you are reusing is itself a reused set - it's the CNRI set.) Following up that announcement - which drew attention to your set issues -  by reusing five separate sets from previous episodes and last night's episode of Flash, with bonus negative points for reusing the old Arrow Cave set to chain Sara up with the identical stairs and reusing some of the props from Flash is a new low even for you. Triple negative points by spotlighting the car that you used in every other episode of Arrow in the first two seasons and a few episodes of Flash last season in your cold open. Look, we all know this is a low budget television show, but unless you can make a joke of this, just don't.   And also, can we maybe have these mysterious nightly meetings in other locations for once?

 

2.  And speaking of incompetence, ARGUS, WTF with sending Oliver to Evil Island with a computer/communications device that didn't even require a password?  You clearly trust Oliver more than I do.

 

3. I get narratively why this had to be done, but I'm really not happy that Oliver, who has fought off countless bad guys and was incredibly competent, at least at that level, in the first season, was so easily brought down by a mere cop.  Remember when it was a total shock when the Dark Archer brought him down in the first season, and how difficult that was to do? Can we go back to that, please?

 

4. And ok, yes, people recover very quickly from wounds on this show, but Oliver was just knifed, so, exactly how was he able to give that speech so easily?

 

5. I know a spinoff is coming. I'm even looking forward to it. But I gotta say, a lot of the spinoff set up stuff, on both Arrow and Flash, is feeling really forced - last night's "let's stop the hunt for Zoom so we can bring in the new Firestorm!" and this night's "Hi, I'm Felicity Smoak. Usually I can identify exactly what's up with any phone or computer, but in this episode, I need to have some expository dialogue so I can remind the audience about my ex boyfriend, coming to a spinoff near you."

 

6. That "I came home to save my city - and I did!" is really ringing false now, isn't it? Maybe that should have been saved for season 10.

 

7. Needs more Diggle.

 

And now, Laurel:

 

The bright spots first.  One, once again, her clothing was generally on point.  Also, finally, the Canary Cry worked! I admit I have no idea how, exactly, it targeted just one person and not the van he slammed into, but hey, it worked.  Also apparently she has found her father an apartment in her building so that was nice. Plus, even after a presumed housing shortage thanks to earthquakes, Mirakuru attacks and so on, she's found an apartment with unlocked access to a nice big basement. Laurel, I may not agree with most of your choices in life, but I applaud your real estate sense.

 

And then there was the rest of the episode:

 

1. Number of times Laurel fails as an attorney: 1) failing to suggest that Oliver and Felicity just might want to talk to an attorney about campaign financing issues, 2) failing to inform Oliver that in political circles, it's generally frowned on to keep a secret lair stocked with weapons beneath your campaign offices if only because 3) you're going to really be carrying a huge liability load when/if the bad guys find your headquarters and blow it up (which, since Team Arrow already let a cop into the lair, is bound to happen, especially given what's happened in previous seasons, 4) despite being an ADA, apparently completely unaware that the equivalent to an entire precinct of cops has gone bad for two months, 5) making exactly no efforts to try to collect/protect the evidence behind two cop killings like this is your job, Laurel, not just your father's, 6) not knowing that the vigilante task force had some nonstandard cop equipment like again what were you doing at the ADA's office, Laurel? 7) apparently not knowing that the vigilante task force had been reinstated (plus, Laurel, as a vigilante, you really should have known about this,  8) chaining her sister up in a basement which I am pretty sure is not something that most state bars approve of, and 9) failing to recognize that they're standing in her old CRNI office. Ok, that one's unfair.

 

Number of times Laurel fails as a vigilante: 1) it was quick, but Quentin pointed out that he's been working with Darhk for two months, and only started after the city had already been failing for a few months, meaning that as a vigilante, Laurel was ineffective without Oliver, 2) Failing to help Team Arrow track down the cop killers because of her need to explain the chained up woman in her basement, 3) not recognizing that the chained up woman in her basement could use the chain as a weapon thus nearly getting herself killed 4) needing to grab onto Oliver and use him and his zipline to get down, like POOR PLANNING, LAUREL, 5) after knocking down the evil cop in her hallway, continuing to fight the evil cop instead of pursuing the rest of the evil cops who had just kidnapped her father like SERIOUSLY WTF LAUREL  which then left her sleeping in the hallway like THAT WAS HELPFUL, LAUREL (for a moment, I actually thought we were about to go back to Laurel getting kidnapped again) 6) pausing, in the middle of a fight, to take credit for one of Cisco's innovations, 7) failing to keep the dangerous assassin without a soul secure, allowing said assassin to escape, presumably to go murder people like thanks again, Laurel and while I'm at it 8) bringing a dangerous assassin who has already tried to kill her food on a regular plate which could also be used as a weapon like Laurel, first of all, Sara already tried to kill you (yay Sara) and second of all, you supposedly trained under Nyssa. Were you paying any attention at all?

 

Number of times Laurel fails as a human being: I have to sleep at some point tonight, so this won't be comprehensive, but 1) announcing that she didn't need Oliver's judgement, and then, less than two minutes later, judging Oliver for his first attempt to get a real, full time job in years, 2) chaining her younger sister up in a basement and not even leaving her with a bottle of water. Dehydration kills people, Laurel, and while I understand that you may have had some sanitary concerns given that you also didn't leave her with anything even remotely resembling a chamberpot, but water would have been nice. Also a change of clothing. 3) leaving said, deadly dangerous sister in a basement in her apartment building that is presumably visited by other people from time to time, like, Laurel, what if a water pipe broke and the landlord called someone in to fix it?  The Star City plumbers don't have the steady work that the window repair guys do, and they don't deserve this sort of thing! 4) failing to warn her father, who, if we all recall, last year had a deadly heart condition that could kill him at any second, that his younger daughter had come back to life yet again and was now chained up in a basement, 5) failing to leave her sister with a nice pillow. No wonder Sara took off. I'm on her side.

 

All of this aside, this was a genuinely weird episode for Laurel. It had at least two obligatory "Green Arrow and Black Canary" shots, one, granted, which made her look mildly incompetent, but let's move past that for now. It had a few other Because Comics Superhero moments - a lot of spinning and Canary Crying and all that. (Though honestly she had better stunts in the previous two episodes, so that was kind of a failure too.)  But otherwise, it seemed to focus on just how disconnected Laurel is to Team Arrow and Oliver, despite being in the secret. 

 

And I'm not just talking about the fact that she's lying to most of them about something fairly huge, or that she doesn't know that Oliver was/is planning on asking Felicity to marry him - it's not clear that Diggle knows that last bit either, and there's no reason why Oliver would tell Laurel that he wants to marry Felicity. It's more things like missing the major scene where Team Arrow discovered just how corrupt Star City has gotten. Oliver's heavy scenes about guilt and saving the city and hope were all between him and Lance. She was nowhere around when Oliver made his mayoral announcement, although Thea, Felicity and Diggle were in the audience, and Oliver stated that he was inspired to run in part because he'd always wanted Lance's approval - not Laurel's.  Laurel may not want or need Oliver's judgement any more - but he also clearly doesn't need hers, even as he still needs Quentin's.

[dtissagirl]

I find EBR's acting choices a little too, um, effusive. Wouldn't a simple crossed-arms stance and stink eye convey that Oliver has committed yet another act of dumbass-ery? I feel like I've been systemically programmed to react to Oliver's decisions whenever I see a rigid pose with crossed arms...huh, can't think why.

 

This GIF is actually kinda spooky for me because the way EBR raises her hands and makes the face on top of it is EXACTLY what my sister does when she wants to make the same point. Hee.

[kismet]

The gif of this episode are truly TOP notch!! The entirety of the episode was Meh...

[tarotx]

The episode was ok. The rush feel is something I also feel on Flash this season.

Again the stunts are awkward. It's annoying.

I thought Laurel was going to get her "real" canary cry for a second when she was zapped.

I felt Lance's arc was really developed in this episode. I liked him ( well paul's acting).

Olivery needs to be connected to the big moments or the story doesn't pop even when they are given screen time. He's why I watch.

I think KC had potential to shine in her scenes with Lance and Sara. I've seen a ton of amnesia movies and TV episodes that similar scenes and diologue was raw and emotional. Not here. I think it is on her. She had stuff to work with needing and pleading Sara to come back and Lance not to kill Sara. Those scenes needed KC to be powerful and nuanced in her delivery, facial expression abd the way she held her body.

Not enough Diggle but I felt like I got something powerful from him in his voicing of his fear for baby Sara.

This episode felt very moving people into place for future plot.

[jay741982]

Loved everything with Oliver and Detective Lance LOL I love that is his code name.

 

Loved Rutina Wesley.

 

But WTF is with Felicity being all fucking weepy about Ray.  She wasn't in love with him! And the whole HE WAS MY BOYFRIEND WAHH.  WTF show just WTF??  She used his suit to save Oliver. She made it clear to him that she wanted to be with Oliver.  UGH

 

Laurel is a complete and utter wackadoodle fool. I'm tired of her. I'm tired of KC's shit acting with one move of folding her arms. I'm tired of the whole fucking thing.  How dare Laurel be so shocked and shaming towards Lance for trying to do the probable right thing by sending Sara back to her resting place.

 

Fuck off, Laurel.

Felicity liked and cared enough about Ray that she was his GIRLFRIEND. She can't cry over someone she actually cared about? Her crying wasn't even that much why is it different when she cries over someone else. I was no fan of Ray but she is allowed to cry over someone she once dated and was friends with. Geez

Yeah, EBR went a bit over the top with the Ray thing. We know she wasn't in love with Ray seeing as that was a whole plot point in s3 but the tears were too much. I can understand her not wanting to relive things or hear his voice but at the same time I was like, huh? That whole thing made me uncomfortable. I'm not worried though, I feel like I should stress that. But EBR definitely overplayed it which I had a feeling she would anyway.

Geez you would think Felicity was on the floor bawling her eyes out! She wasn't!

[Chaser]

Did anything trend?

[thuganomics85]

Man, I thought this episode was just dull, and I think that might even be worse then what I would consider "bad" episodes of Arrow, because at least those can be kind of entertaining, and leave an impression.  I honestly forgot about half of the stuff that happened after an hour, and I'm pretty much using this thread as a refresher course on a lot of levels.

 

My biggest takeaway though it that Lance as shot up as one of the top contenders for the body in the grave from the premiere.  I think he is going to end up working undercover for Oliver, and Damien Darhk will find out and kill him.  This would explain Oliver's big (for him, at least) reaction at the grave, because Oliver will feel guilty, since he was the one who told Lance to go undercover, instead of just turn himself in.  Can't have a season with out some Ollie-angst, after-all.

 

It's all pretty obvious that all of Felicity's phone hijinks are due to Ray.  About time to set him up for the spin-off, I guess.  Glad to see that pinging her cellphone has other benefits besides stalking.

 

Diggle pretty much did nothing, so that's never a good thing.

 

The ending made me laugh.  Nice one, Laurel.  Now, a crazy-ass Sara is out there, doing who knows what, because of your lame attempt to chain her.  And, of course, it once again ended with Katie Cassidy giving the strangest reaction shot possible, looking less like her resurrected, crazy sister just escaped, and more like her dog pooped on her floor.

 

I did find the mayor stuff kind of entertaining.  I just hope Oliver doesn't run unopposed, because I want to see a rival that is even more unlikely then him.  Like one of the past villains or something.  Like, say, Count Vertigo got all his charges dropped somehow, so he's running and promising everyone free healthcare benefits, which may or may not include a certain type of drug he is familiar with.  Just go crazy!

 

I was nice seeing Rutina Wesley here, at least.

 

Flashbacks continue to be pointless.  Even with Ryan Robbins.

 

At least next week looks better, but I found this to be a bust.  Maybe it needed to borrow from The Flash, and have King Shark randomly show up.

Edited October 29, 2015 by thuganomics85

[WaitandHope]

So I get it, Felicity looked at a picture of DD and did not recognize him, so it's not her dad. That theory appears dead. But DD did say to Quentin, "from one father to another." I doubt that's a throwaway line. He's got family. Just not the Smoaks. Interesting.

There was a lot of foreshadowing this episode and tons of set up. There were some good scenes between Oliver and QL and Oliver and Thea, but the sum of all the parts was a let down. I wasn't bored per se, just sort of waiting for something to happen...and then it never did. I didn't dislike the episode. I just found it wanting and disjointed. It was, however, much more enjoyable than last night's Flash, which suffered from many of the same problems.

Brian Ford Sullivan has let me down.

And Dammit! We need more Diggle. We were PROMISED!