The Annual Academy Awards - General Discussion

[Rebecca berkowit]

1 hour ago, Ms Blue Jay said:

I don't think anyone should be in a major panic.  I clearly remember my grade school classes misunderstanding some big issues in the news at the time.  Once you get older and get some more education all those things suddenly become clear.

They were certainly both assault.  What was she supposed to do?  Slap him?  Will Smith style?  She had no choice but to accept his actions.  It was a disgusting display.

Another horrible one you can see on YouTube:  Chris Isaak doing the same to Cameron Diaz.  It's a tradition of men thinking they are owed the bodies of beautiful women.   Would Adrien do that to Judi Dench?  Kathy Bates?  Or did he simply do it because he's owed Halle Berry's young beauty?  It makes me sick.

It’s like they think they won the award so they get to kiss the pretty girl! Like she’s the same as the statue.  This used to be mainstream culture, thank goodness it’s changing, and people are starting to realize the pretty girl maybe is also human.

[blackwing]

3 hours ago, Macbeth1966 said:

Exactly.  Any regular Joe would have been arrested.   There's no arguing about that.  It was caught on camera.  Millions saw this.  

Instead he won his award - and he got a standing ovation.  It was like WTF.

The rules are different when your rich and powerful.

Yep, and then he partied it up like nothing even happened.  Entertainment Weekly had at least one series of photos from an afterparty (I think Vanity Fair) and there was a disproportionate number of photos of Will and Jada.  He's smiling and laughing and posing and dancing, like he didn't embarrass himself in front of billions of people.  I'm sure at the party, he probably didn't think he did anything wrong.  He probably STILL thinks he didn't do anything wrong and disagrees with his publicist and those who forced him to apologise.

 

[slowpoked]

If true - so aside, from Will Smith refusing to leave after he was told to, I just learned he also refused to do the requisite press interviews and pictures backstage after winning his award (apologies if this was already mentioned earlier). No wonder he was back to his seat real fast after his category was announced WITH his Oscar (usually winners take a long time getting back to their seat because of all the backstage stuff they have to do.) And this is also the reason why he was missing on that annual Oscar picture of all the four acting winners. 

So he slapped Chris Rock and basically got away with the crime the entire evening, even dictating his own terms on what he wants to do and what he doesn't?! No wonder he was lighting it up at the Oscars' after parties like nothing happened. I mean, who wouldn't feel like a God in that situation?

[Bookworm13]

This thread has moved too quickly for me to keep up with, but has the TikTok video of Jada laughing when Will slapped Chris been posted yet? I know all relationships have their own dynamic, but if I were somewhere with my husband and he was about to embarrass himself in front of a group of people, nevermind the entire world, I wouldn’t just sit by quietly. I’d be grabbing at him as he stood up to try and stop him and shushing him afterwards instead of letting him continue to make a fool of himself. 

[Guest]

5 hours ago, susannah said:

I just saw the Brody/Berry kiss, and there is no way that was assault. She had her arms around his neck, kissing him back, and smiling at the end.  The Carrey/Silverstone one was different, and I am surprised there was no security onstage, since she had trouble pushing him off.

You can’t determine whether something is assault based on the potential victims response in the moment. Fight, flight, freeze and fawn are the four modern reactions to threats. Halle’s reaction was an example of fawn. It’s extremely normal particularly in women who are less likely to be able to physical protect themselves against someone bigger. In the modern world your more likely to be threatened by a bully than a bear so the stress response is different. 

[slowpoked]

41 minutes ago, Dani said:

I wouldn’t assume that. It’s a lot easier to just move people around than revoke an invite. Two people presenting together wasn’t consistent so there is a lot of room for someone to have been moved. Or she took a spot that hadn’t been finalized yet or someone who had to drop out for some reason. Elordi and a few others were announced as presenters at the same time as Zegler. It would be extremely unlikely on a show this big that the presenters list would be somewhat it flux leading up to the event. 

Presenters are always in flux. There's a reason why the Academy sends them names of presenters in batches - because there are a lot of things to work out, scheduling, availability, etc. Once they secure commitment, then they can send out a press release to drum up interest and attention to the show. They never send it out in one press release. 

[Guest]

5 minutes ago, slowpoked said:

Presenters are always in flux. There's a reason why the Academy sends them names of presenters in batches - because there are a lot of things to work out, scheduling, availability, etc. Once they secure commitment, then they can send out a press release to drum up interest and attention to the show. They never send it out in one press release. 

I agree. I had intended to write that it would extremely unlikely that the show wouldn’t be somewhat in flux leading up to the event. 

[Lady Whistleup]

40 minutes ago, Bookworm13 said:

This thread has moved too quickly for me to keep up with, but has the TikTok video of Jada laughing when Will slapped Chris been posted yet? I know all relationships have their own dynamic, but if I were somewhere with my husband and he was about to embarrass himself in front of a group of people, nevermind the entire world, I wouldn’t just sit by quietly. I’d be grabbing at him as he stood up to try and stop him and shushing him afterwards instead of letting him continue to make a fool of himself. 

I think Jada's reaction is typical if this is the way your husband regularly acts. It's like a very "eh, whatever" look.

[superdeluxe]

14 hours ago, SusanM said:

I am making no excuses for Will Smith but I have to admit I am becoming very uncomfortable with the pile on of hate that seems to be gathering steam and directed towards him and his family.  Shock and anger over what he specifically did at the Oscars is one thing but it seems to be going way beyond that now.

Seems like people have been wanting Will Smith to do down or whatever and he gave them opportunity for that to happen.  Now, they’re reveling in it with glee.  I’m just done with it.  The bigotry, the racist language, the dramatics, everybody coming out of the woodwork throwing their two cents in like we asked for it.  OJ and Alec Baldwin really shouldn’t be talking.

I’m just done.  There are other things going on.  The Grammys are happening on Sunday.  Anybody talking about that?

[slowpoked]

It's gonna get uglier. Of course, "sources" (left unsaid, "close to Will Smith") said that the Academy is in fact lying about asking him to leave:

https://www.tmz.com/2022/03/31/academy-lied-asking-will-smith-to-leave-oscars-slap-chris-rock/?adid=share-tw

Someone mentioned either here or on Twitter about how/why the need for an investigation when the crime was up there for everyone to see - Chris made a bad joke, Will slapped him. The end. I guess the investigation is for details like this. 

[Artsda]

1 hour ago, Bookworm13 said:

This thread has moved too quickly for me to keep up with, but has the TikTok video of Jada laughing when Will slapped Chris been posted yet? I know all relationships have their own dynamic, but if I were somewhere with my husband and he was about to embarrass himself in front of a group of people, nevermind the entire world, I wouldn’t just sit by quietly. I’d be grabbing at him as he stood up to try and stop him and shushing him afterwards instead of letting him continue to make a fool of himself. 

I saw that, she obviously thought it was great to do. 

[Hiyo]

Quote

, but has the TikTok video of Jada laughing when Will slapped Chris been posted yet?

"Yeah baby, that's how we do it!"

[Hiyo]

Quote

Seems like people have been wanting Will Smith to do down or whatever and he gave them opportunity for that to happen.  Now, they’re reveling in it with glee.  I’m just done with it.  The bigotry, the racist language, the dramatics, everybody coming out of the woodwork throwing their two cents in like we asked for it.

Some people, sure, but not everybody. To many, even some of his fans, his actions were uncalled for and just wrong.

[yowsah1]

15 minutes ago, Hiyo said:

Some people, sure, but not everybody. To many, even some of his fans, his actions were uncalled for and just wrong.

You don't have to be a Will Smith Hater to know that assault and battery are crimes.

Edited March 31, 2022 by yowsah1

[proserpina65]

18 hours ago, Rebecca berkowit said:

Why wasn’t she invited? Wasn’t her movie up for lots of awards?  Don’t they invite the whole cast?  A lot of the cast was there.  

Because she was filming a movie in London and the production schedule would've had to have been completely rearranged to accommodate a trip to LA.  Which is what happened.  A lot of people in the cast & crew were seriously inconvenienced so that she could attend the Oscars.

This happens all the time.  Hell, Michael Caine missed accepting his Oscar for Hannah and Her Sisters because he was filming Jaws: the Revenge.

19 hours ago, slowpoked said:

And to be fair, it's not the Academy's fault in her case. The Academy allocates a set amount of tickets to the studios, and the studios choose to distribute to their stars however they want to. Rachel found out she was not given a ticket, so she said she won't be attending. It sounded like she would have been fine just sitting in the audience. It's Disney's boo-boo in this case, not AMPAS. 

It wasn't a boo-boo.  Her attending the Oscars seriously screwed up the production schedule for Snow White.

18 hours ago, blackwing said:

ery interesting... the Academy released a statement saying they are initiating disciplinary proceedings against Smith.  They also said that after The Slap, they asked him to leave the ceremony, but he refused.  Ass.  How come they didn't get security to remove him forcibly?

"Please Mr. Famous Celebrity, will you leave so that we don't have to actually take any action?"

Seriously, this is why clubs have bouncers, to remove unruly guests.

 

[SusanM]

1 minute ago, proserpina65 said:

"Please Mr. Famous Celebrity, will you leave so that we don't have to actually take any action?"

Assuming the version going around that he was asked to leave and refused is accurate I can't help sympathizing with the Academy.  Talk about being in a no win situation.  Terrible optics no matter which course of action they took at that point. 

The only positive here is that going forward there will be a plan in place for how to deal with this kind of situation.  Which hopefully they will never have to implement.

[proserpina65]

7 hours ago, susannah said:

I just saw the Brody/Berry kiss, and there is no way that was assault. She had her arms around his neck, kissing him back, and smiling at the end.  The Carrey/Silverstone one was different, and I am surprised there was no security onstage, since she had trouble pushing him off.

Mileage varies on whether or not either kiss was assault, but at the time neither would've violated the code of behavior for the Oscar ceremony, if there even was one.

What happened Sunday night absolutely was an assault, I don't see how anyone could disagree about that, and it did violate the Academy's written standards.  That Smith wasn't immediately removed was bad enough, but that he was allowed to give his weepy, faux-apology acceptance speech is a disgrace.

3 hours ago, Ms Blue Jay said:

Would Adrien do that to Judi Dench?  Kathy Bates? 

I think he would have, no matter who the presenter was.  I also don't think he'd do that now.

 

22 minutes ago, SusanM said:

Assuming the version going around that he was asked to leave and refused is accurate I can't help sympathizing with the Academy. 

I don't have any sympathy for the Academy.  They could've dealt with this at the time.  They didn't.  They deserve the egg on their faces.

[Sarah 103]

23 hours ago, ProudMary said:

I'm not expecting all that much in terms of direct action by the Academy against Will Smith, but I do think action will come from SAG-AFTRA. Indeed, changes to future Oscar telecasts by the Academy, inspired by this incident, may very well come because of pressure from SAG-AFTRA.

Yes. If memory serves correct, actors make up the largest voting block at the Academy Awards, so pressure from SAG-AFTRA may be taken more seriously than some of the other unions, simply due the numbers involved. 

 

 

[slowpoked]

34 minutes ago, proserpina65 said:

Because she was filming a movie in London and the production schedule would've had to have been completely rearranged to accommodate a trip to LA.  Which is what happened.  A lot of people in the cast & crew were seriously inconvenienced so that she could attend the Oscars.

This happens all the time.  Hell, Michael Caine missed accepting his Oscar for Hannah and Her Sisters because he was filming Jaws: the Revenge.

It wasn't a boo-boo.  Her attending the Oscars seriously screwed up the production schedule for Snow White.

 

I didn't know she was on location for filming for Snow White. I became aware of it when it became a trending topic on why the lead star of a multi-nominated movie wasn't going to the Oscars after she had tweeted about it. Maybe Disney had a good reason all along to not give her a ticket. Rachel made it sound like she was overlooked. I wonder if she was just looking for the courtesy of being invited, but she would eventually turn it down due to her filming. Because it was made a big deal, she had no choice but to attend when things were moved and arranged for her to attend. Either way, you're right, it's not a good look, and not a feel-good story after all. 

As you mentioned the cast & crew - I remember a bit of Amy's monologue, where she said "in the middle of a raging pandemic, you made a movie, you did it!" I thought at first it was a joke to how Hollywood celebrates and brags about its self-importance. But Amy sort of clarified and made sure the audience know she was sincere and genuine in her congratulations. And I get why - it's not so much the celebrities but the rest of the people who heavily depend on movies (and TV shows) being made for their main livelihood. Yes, celebrating being able to make movies during a pandemic may seem so trivial, but not to the stunt people, caterers, cleaners, drivers, assistants, gaffers, the "small," working actors, etc. who need to have movies made so they can pay their day-to-day bills that celebrities do not ever have to worry about. So yes, like Amy said, big kudos for making it all happen. When you see all the glamour in these award shows, sometimes it's hard to remember that these celebrities are only 1% of the HW industry, and the 99% are hard-working folks just like the rest of us.

[blackwing]

49 minutes ago, slowpoked said:

I didn't know she was on location for filming for Snow White. I became aware of it when it became a trending topic on why the lead star of a multi-nominated movie wasn't going to the Oscars after she had tweeted about it. Maybe Disney had a good reason all along to not give her a ticket. Rachel made it sound like she was overlooked. I wonder if she was just looking for the courtesy of being invited, but she would eventually turn it down due to her filming. Because it was made a big deal, she had no choice but to attend when things were moved and arranged for her to attend. Either way, you're right, it's not a good look, and not a feel-good story after all. 

Right.  I think it just shows her complete inexperience as an actor.  The fact that her first thought was to whine on instagram about how she wasn't invited... ummm hello?  You're in London in the middle of production of a movie.  Yeah it would have been great if you had been in between jobs and were able to make the trip to the Oscars.  But you're not.  You're in an active production.  And you're the lead.  So either 1) people have to work to get the entire production schedule rearranged so that scenes can be shot that don't involve you, or 2) hundreds of people will get a free 3 day vacation from work while you are partying it up and having your "moment".  Either way, the little stunt probably cost the studio and a lot of people a lot of time and money.

We got a passive aggressive "oh how I wish I was going to the Oscars, but I didn't get invited, so oh well".  What did she think was going to happen?  Of course her fans were going to be all up in arms about how she deserved to be there, etc.  I still think Disney could have said, "sorry, we wanted her there too but she's in the middle of production".  Or she could have later posted something to that effect.  

When Judi Dench was nominated for Best Actress for "Philomena", she didn't attend the ceremony.  She was in India filming "The Second Best Exotic Marigold Hotel".  She knew it would be a disruption for everyone if she were to disappear for a few days to attend the Oscars, so she didn't go.  I'm sure she would have liked to have been there, but it wasn't possible.  And she understood.  And didn't whine about it.

[Avaleigh]

2 hours ago, yowsah1 said:

You don't have to be a Will Smith Hater to know that assault and battery are crimes.

Thank you for this. I was a fan of Will Smith as a little kid when I watched Fresh Prince. For the most part he doesn't do the kind of movies that I'm interested in seeing but I was excited for him when it looked like he was the favorite to win an Oscar this year because I've liked some of his past work (Mainly Ali, Six Degrees and Fresh Prince.) I even thought he was a lot of fun in Aladdin. That being said, my opinion of him completely changed with this incident.

For me too, I think what I really found upsetting in addition to the assault (which was the worst part about all of this just to be clear--Chris Rock has been very open about how it feels to be bullied. I can't imagine how complicated his emotions must have been in that moment. Not to mention how triggering this has been for countless people including myself.) was that there were no consequences for Will in the moment or even now up to this point. He gets to assault a person and minutes later collect a coveted award and have his king of the industry moment that continues all night long. At no point did he or certain members of his family think that he'd done anything wrong. Fast forward a few days later and now people want to make it seem like he's the real victim in all of this. 

Even more upsetting and frustrating is linking people who are genuinely upset that they witnessed an assault take place with the racists, bigots and misogynists who are making their own commentary--it's hurtful and unfair and makes the entire situation feel even more outrageous and unreal.

[Inquisitionist]

On 3/29/2022 at 5:13 PM, FilmTVGeek80 said:

Probably because back then, pre Me Too, it wasn't considered assault. It was considered a positive, happy moment. Now, if he did it there would be a bigger outcry. 

It was not considered a positive, happy moment by everyone.  I found it offensive then as did lots of my friends.  (We're referring to Adrien Brody's entitled grabbing/kissing of Halle Berry when he won his Best Actor Oscar.)

[proserpina65]

28 minutes ago, blackwing said:

The fact that her first thought was to whine on instagram about how she wasn't invited... ummm hello? 

To be fair to her, she wasn't whining.  A fan posted a comment about being excited to see what she would be wearing to the Oscars and she just replied that she wouldn't be there but would be watching the show on tv.  It was a segment of her fans who got up in arms about it.

 

[Ms Blue Jay]

6 minutes ago, Inquisitionist said:

It was not considered a positive, happy moment by everyone.  I found it offensive then as did lots of my friends.  (We're referring to Adrien Brody's entitled grabbing/kissing of Halle Berry when he won his Best Actor Oscar.)

Agree.  It's not fair to assume "everyone was okay with it".

[krankydoodle]

15 hours ago, ProudMary said:

Extended Twitter thread (19 tweets) from Joseph Monish Patel, one of the three Oscar winning producers of Summer of Soul, who talks about the events that occurred Sunday night. He's angry at both Will Smith and Chris Rock for different reasons in spoiling their win. 

For those who might not be able to read the entire thread in the original Twitter format, here's a link to the unrolled thread:

https://threadreaderapp.com/thread/1509323149820805125.html

Thanks for sharing the link since it looks like the tweets have been deleted. I was looking up more about the story and saw that Chris Rock said at an event the day before that he would be announcing Summer of Soul as winners that way if they won. Just another baffling element in this mess of an event.

Edited March 31, 2022 by krankydoodle

[blackwing]

20 minutes ago, proserpina65 said:

To be fair to her, she wasn't whining.  A fan posted a comment about being excited to see what she would be wearing to the Oscars and she just replied that she wouldn't be there but would be watching the show on tv.  It was a segment of her fans who got up in arms about it.

 

She was whining.  She said something about not having received a ticket, hoping for a last minute miracle, but "it doesn't seem to be happening".  

Here is the exact post:

Quote

Idk y’all, I have tried it all, but it doesn’t seem to be happening. I will root for ‘West Side Story’ from my couch and be proud of the work we so tirelessly did three years ago. I hope some last minute miracle occurs and I can celebrate our film in person, but hey, that’s how it goes sometimes, I guess. Thanks for all the shock and outrage — I’m disappointed too. But that’s okay. So proud of our movie.

That sounds like whining to me.  "I wanted to go, and I tried everything, but it's not happening, so I guess I'll be watching from my couch.  Maybe some miracle will occur and they'll let me go, but if not, it's ok."

It's very passive aggressive and she knew EXACTLY what she was doing when she posted that.

She could have easily posted "I'd love to go, but I'm happy to be in London filming 'Snow White' and it just wasn't possible for me to go."

Edited March 31, 2022 by blackwing

[FilmTVGeek80]

5 hours ago, Ms Blue Jay said:

Jim Carrey absolutely thinks everyone forgot that he assaults people on stage when he wins awards too.  He 100% thinks everyone forgot.  If he was really making a point he could admit his own wrongdoings and then talk about what Will Smith did is wrong.  Instead, I feel like a lot of celebrities are pointing fingers especially at someone they think is an easy target, thinking nobody will point fingers back.  Jim Carrey and other celebrities are not our moral guides.  We can decide for ourselves without their help.  They are not there to tell us how to feel about Will Smith.

I can appreciate the point of view of people who were actually there, like Joseph Monish Patel who won an award, or the people working, like Wanda Sykes, or even former hosts, etc.  But Jim Carrey and all these other celebrities who want to throw their two cents in without doing any looking inward really annoys the hell out of me.  It feels very opportunistic and a desperate way to drum up publicity, which is not exactly respectful to Rock either.

You're making it sound like this is some ongoing thing he does all the time when the last time it happened was, what, 20 years ago? It's possible he forgot about it because it's been so long. And, who said, celebrities are moral guides? Celebrities are real people with opinions just like everyone else that they're allowed to express. 

And, since when do you have to have witnessed an event to comment about it? Most of the people talking about it where either involved, were asked about it because they were at an event or promoting something else and it's the biggest story right now, or people who know the parties involved.

38 minutes ago, Avaleigh said:

 

Even more upsetting and frustrating is linking people who are genuinely upset that they witnessed an assault take place with the racists, bigots and misogynists who are making their own commentary--it's hurtful and unfair and makes the entire situation feel even more outrageous and unreal.

This! I get that it's cringe to share the opinion of racists and assholes, but I'm not going to hold back on saying something is wrong just because assholes are using the event to score points. They're reasons for condemning it are entirely different from my own.

56 minutes ago, blackwing said:

 

When Judi Dench was nominated for Best Actress for "Philomena", she didn't attend the ceremony.  She was in India filming "The Second Best Exotic Marigold Hotel".  She knew it would be a disruption for everyone if she were to disappear for a few days to attend the Oscars, so she didn't go.  I'm sure she would have liked to have been there, but it wasn't possible.  And she understood.  And didn't whine about it.

Judi Dench is also a seasoned actress who not only won an Academy Award already, but had already been there numerous times compared to Zegler who is an actress who got her big break straight out of school. 

7 minutes ago, blackwing said:

That sounds like whining to me.  "I wanted to go, and I tried everything, but it's not happening, so I guess I'll be watching from my couch.  Maybe some miracle will occur and they'll let me go, but if not, it's ok."

It's very passive aggressive and she knew EXACTLY what she was doing when she posted that.

She could have easily posted "I'd love to go to, but I'm happy to be in London filming 'Snow White' and it just wasn't possible for me to go."

It doesn't sound like whining to me. It sounds like she's expressing a grievance, which she's allowed to do on her own SM page. Again, celebrities are human, too. Like you said, it's not as if the production company had to rearrange things. They could have said no and chose not to. Studios are all about making money. If it really cost too much to rearrange things there's no way they wouldn't have just said no, especially since Zegler is not a big star yet. 

27 minutes ago, Inquisitionist said:

It was not considered a positive, happy moment by everyone.  I found it offensive then as did lots of my friends.  (We're referring to Adrien Brody's entitled grabbing/kissing of Halle Berry when he won his Best Actor Oscar.)

 

20 minutes ago, Ms Blue Jay said:

Agree.  It's not fair to assume "everyone was okay with it".

Who said it was considered a positive, happy moment by everyone or that everyone was okay with it? Somebody made a comment about why there wasn't a bigger outcry against Brody at the time and my opinion was that because it was considered a positive moment. Never said it was considered a positive moment by everyone.

[proserpina65]

50 minutes ago, blackwing said:

I will root for ‘West Side Story’ from my couch and be proud of the work we so tirelessly did three years ago.

This is the only part I had seen and it seemed fine to me.  The rest, well it is a little whiny, I guess.

33 minutes ago, FilmTVGeek80 said:

Like you said, it's not as if the production company had to rearrange things. They could have said no and chose not to.

After the social media outrage that the Latina starlet wasn't invited to the Oscars, Disney was put in a bad spot and really couldn't have said no without people saying it was racist.  Which some people were already saying.

[Guest]

3 hours ago, FilmTVGeek80 said:

It doesn't sound like whining to me. It sounds like she's expressing a grievance, which she's allowed to do on her own SM page. Again, celebrities are human, too. Like you said, it's not as if the production company had to rearrange things. They could have said no and chose not to. Studios are all about making money. If it really cost too much to rearrange things there's no way they wouldn't have just said no, especially since Zegler is not a big star yet. 

This is how I read it. To me a whining generally requires a certain tone or repeated complaining. Whining as also become a term that gets my back up (fairly and unfairly) because I nearly always see it referring to a women experiencing some kind of displeasure. It has become a loaded word in many aspects. 

I also think way too much has been made out of them having to change the filming schedule. Most movie sets can adjust to a couple of days with an actor. They just switch to shooting things without her in it or use a stand-in. If she had been nominated (which was a possibility) or asked to present earlier they would have had to make the same adjustments. 

Edited March 31, 2022 by Guest

[CountryGirl]

Jim Carrey likely has forgotten all about the incident and why his recollection would matter is lost on me.

I'm sure Alicia hasn't. That is the point.

He's also made some pretty gross comments, to a journalist as well as actress Margot Robbie as recently as within the last 2 years. Gems like how one of them was on his bucket list, a to-do item presumably. Or that the other had gotten ahead in Hollywood because of her physical appearance. 

His agent raised the "taken out of context" flag that is so often waved when someone has stepped in it. The "I didn't mean it that way" excuse. Both women were offended and clearly uncomfortable and it is their perception as they were on the receiving end of the comments that matters to me. 

[susannah]

10 hours ago, Simon Boccanegra said:

Berry has said since then that she wasn't really comfortable, but she just "went with it."

Yeah she went with it with her arms around his neck. I call false.

[susannah]

5 hours ago, Dani said:

You can’t determine whether something is assault based on the potential victims response in the moment. Fight, flight, freeze and fawn are the four modern reactions to threats. Halle’s reaction was an example of fawn. It’s extremely normal particularly in women who are less likely to be able to physical protect themselves against someone bigger. In the modern world your more likely to be threatened by a bully than a bear so the stress response is different. 

You also can't determine it isn't. People are making assumptions about it. I think it is highly unlikely that an adult woman would feel so helpless in an area surrounded by people. All she had to do was to take her arms from his neck and push him away. That would indicate to me that she did not like it. Her actions in no way indicated to me that she didn't like it.

[RunningMarket]

35 minutes ago, susannah said:

You also can't determine it isn't. People are making assumptions about it. I think it is highly unlikely that an adult woman would feel so helpless in an area surrounded by people. All she had to do was to take her arms from his neck and push him away. That would indicate to me that she did not like it. Her actions in no way indicated to me that she didn't like it.

Or, more likely, she "went along with it" to not make a fuss during a live, very publicized and watched event.

[PepSinger]

53 minutes ago, susannah said:

You also can't determine it isn't. People are making assumptions about it.

But, as another poster said, Berry said she was uncomfortable with it and just “went along with it,” and you said, “I call false.”  The viewing public isn’t making assumptions as the actress herself said she was uncomfortable, and you still don’t believe her, so it actually doesn’t matter what Berry said because you still don’t believe her. 

58 minutes ago, susannah said:

I think it is highly unlikely that an adult woman would feel so helpless in an area surrounded by people.

Not hard to believe at all. That’s why groping is pretty common at dance clubs despite the number of people on the floor, as an example.

[SusanM]

19 minutes ago, RunningMarket said:

Or, more likely, she "went along with it" to not make a fuss during a live, very publicized and watched event.

Agreed.  No woman working in the entertainment field would have been under any illusions about what the reaction would have been had she pulled away or pushed him away.  Maybe in today's world, maybe, she'd have been ok to handle things that way but in 2003?  Not likely.

[Crs97]

I remember watching back then, and consensus was that Adrien got swept up in the moment and Halle was a good sport.  If she had pushed him away, she would have gotten slammed.

[Chit Chat]

3 hours ago, Avaleigh said:

He gets to assault a person and minutes later collect a coveted award and have his king of the industry moment that continues all night long.

That pretty much sums up what is wrong with the Hollywood elite.  They make videos about how wrong bullying is but stay silent about this.  I'm glad that a lot of the comedians are showing their support for Chris.   

1 minute ago, PepSinger said:

But, as another poster said, Berry said she was uncomfortable with it and just “went along with it,” and you said, “I call false.”

I remember when that happened.  I found it to be a cringeworthy moment for Halle.  I don't know why some actors think that it's somehow okay to kiss a woman without her permission.  I always thought that Halle just rolled with it so as not to make a big deal about it, but in my opinion, Brody was wrong, and I hope he apologized to her for it.  

[FilmTVGeek80]

1 hour ago, proserpina65 said:

 

After the social media outrage that the Latina starlet wasn't invited to the Oscars, Disney was put in a bad spot and really couldn't have said no without people saying it was racist.  Which some people were already saying.

But this is Disney. A company who so didn’t care about Scarlett Johansen’s opinion it took her suing them to give in to what she wanted. Also, it took them ages - and tons of backlash - to do the bare minimum and say they won’t make certain donations after Florida’s disgusting new law. Not that my knowledge necessarily means much, but I didn’t even hear about this until reading this thread and I follow places like EW, Hollywood Reporter, People, etc. I doubt Disney cow towed to a Twitter controversy, unless they were getting something out of it. It doesn’t really matter that people would have said it was racist. Which makes no sense given that DeBose (granted she was a nominee) and Moreno were in attendance and a lot of white actors from the movie weren’t invited. And especially since Disney had an actual legitimate reason why she wasn’t invited.

1 hour ago, Dani said:

This is how I read it. To me a whining generally requires a certain tone or repeated complaining. Whining as also become a term that gets by back (fairly and unfairly) because I nearly always see it referring to a women experiencing some kind of displeasure. It has become a loaded word on many aspects. 

I also think way too much has been made out of them having to change the filming schedule. Most movie sets can adjust to a couple of days with an actor. They just switch to shooting things without her in it or use a stand-in. If she had been nominated (which was a possibility) or asked to present earlier they would have had to make the same adjustments. 

Whining definitely has a negative connotation to me. IMO it makes it seem like she went on a weeks long crusade or stomped her foot and demanded she be catered to.

1 hour ago, CountryGirl said:

Jim Carrey likely has forgotten all about the incident and why his recollection would matter is lost on me.

I'm sure Alicia hasn't. That is the point.

He's also made some pretty gross comments, to a journalist as well as actress Margot Robbie as recently as within the last 2 years. Gems like how one of them was on his bucket list, a to-do item presumably. Or that the other had gotten ahead in Hollywood because of her physical appearance. 

His agent raised the "taken out of context" flag that is so often waved when someone has stepped in it. The "I didn't mean it that way" excuse. Both women were offended and clearly uncomfortable and it is their perception as they were on the receiving end of the comments that matters to me. 

That may be your point, but it wasn’t mine. He’s being accused of being a hypocrite partially because of the Silverstone incident. My point is he may not even remember it, so it’s hard for me to say he’s being hypocritical. And, I’m not sure what these comments you’re talking about have to do with it. We’re talking about different forms of assault. Cringe-y comments are not the same thing. His point about the Smith/Rock incident was that it was wrong, but more than that, it was gross that Hollywood applauded Smith after that. To me, it doesn’t matter that Carrey has done questionable things in the past, because his point is accurate.

[FilmTVGeek80]

14 minutes ago, PepSinger said:

But, as another poster said, Berry said she was uncomfortable with it and just “went along with it,” and you said, “I call false.”  The viewing public isn’t making assumptions as the actress herself said she was uncomfortable, and you still don’t believe her, so it actually doesn’t matter what Berry said because you still don’t believe her. 

But, IMO, you're also putting words in her mouth. You and others seems to be saying only Berry can say if it’s assault. Well, in her comment being quoted she says she felt uncomfortable. She didn’t say she was traumatized or has dealt with nightmares or that she considers it assault. So according to the logic that it’s up to her to label it, she has never said (as far as I know) that she considers it assault.

[Bastet]

11 hours ago, Simon Boccanegra said:

When Brody presented Best Actress the following year and made a show of getting breath spray out before opening the envelope,

That was so gross.  In some ways it bothered me more than the kiss, because he'd had a year to listen and reflect (no, there wasn't a giant outcry calling out his actions as inappropriate, but it certainly was talked and written about) and still thought it so hunky dory it would be great to make a joke about it.

[RealHousewife]

24 minutes ago, PepSinger said:

But, as another poster said, Berry said she was uncomfortable with it and just “went along with it,” and you said, “I call false.”  The viewing public isn’t making assumptions as the actress herself said she was uncomfortable, and you still don’t believe her, so it actually doesn’t matter what Berry said because you still don’t believe her. 

Not hard to believe at all. That’s why groping is pretty common at dance clubs despite the number of people on the floor, as an example.

Yup, even with bouncers nearby. 

21 minutes ago, SusanM said:

Agreed.  No woman working in the entertainment field would have been under any illusions about what the reaction would have been had she pulled away or pushed him away.  Maybe in today's world, maybe, she'd have been ok to handle things that way but in 2003?  Not likely.

I've been told to smile after being assaulted at clubs. Some people really hate a woman who's not happy and smiley and easygoing all the time. Prior to MeToo, they really wanted you to take anything that wasn't a rape as no big deal. 

I have no idea how Halle felt and had forgotten about the incident until it was mentioned here. But I totally believe that even if she appeared okay with it, she may have just gone with it due to the shock and being on live television. 

[Ms Blue Jay]

32 minutes ago, Crs97 said:

I remember watching back then, and consensus was that Adrien got swept up in the moment and Halle was a good sport.  If she had pushed him away, she would have gotten slammed.

Yeah and I think that it's bullshit that Adrien got swept up in the moment.  Not disagreeing with you but that consensus.  If he said that, I also call bullshit.

9 minutes ago, Bastet said:

That was so gross.  In some ways it bothered me more than the kiss, because he'd had a year to listen and reflect (no, there wasn't a giant outcry calling out his actions as inappropriate, but it certainly was talked and written about) and still thought it so hunky dory it would be great to make a joke about it.

Adrien's done other questionable things too.  If anyone remembers how he infamously introduced Sean Paul on Saturday Night Live.  Shudder.  He's gross.

[slowpoked]

3 hours ago, blackwing said:

She was whining.  She said something about not having received a ticket, hoping for a last minute miracle, but "it doesn't seem to be happening".  

Here is the exact post:

Idk y’all, I have tried it all, but it doesn’t seem to be happening. I will root for ‘West Side Story’ from my couch and be proud of the work we so tirelessly did three years ago. I hope some last minute miracle occurs and I can celebrate our film in person, but hey, that’s how it goes sometimes, I guess. Thanks for all the shock and outrage — I’m disappointed too. But that’s okay. So proud of our movie.

That sounds like whining to me.  "I wanted to go, and I tried everything, but it's not happening, so I guess I'll be watching from my couch.  Maybe some miracle will occur and they'll let me go, but if not, it's ok."

It's very passive aggressive and she knew EXACTLY what she was doing when she posted that.

She could have easily posted "I'd love to go, but I'm happy to be in London filming 'Snow White' and it just wasn't possible for me to go."

So without knowing that she was filming Snow White, her original post sounded like it was mere oversight from the part of Disney, she's free to attend, but will not attend due to not having a ticket. And on that perspective, I understand the outrage of her fans, and casual movie fans, because she's the lead star of a multi-nominated movie, plus she's also Latina, and with the Oscars having diversity problems in the last few years, it doesn't look good that a lead Latina star of an Oscar movie is not going even though she wanted to.

Now I got curious and I looked backed at her past tweets. When she got confirmed to be attending, it seems like that's the first, or only, time she brought up filming Snow White and how everyone in the production was so accommodating to her attending the Oscars. Was that a deliberate omission on her tweet above? Could be construed so. But if she had been upfront and said "As much as I want to attend, I'm on location filming, etc., so cheering for our movie from afar. Good luck to all of you!" then I think there wouldn't be a lot of drama about how "the Latina lead of a major Oscar movie wasn't even invited to go," because that's the narrative that came out, and the narrative that made her look sympathetic to fans. And as I believe, most of the time, the narrative almost always wins over the truth. 

Then again, like some of you pointed out, she's young. She's a new movie star who had a big break and has a movie that will be celebrated on the Oscars' big stage. It is probable she was only thinking about herself and not the inconvenience it will cause the production. Immature and selfish, sure, but folly for most new, young people who got their big break. Maybe as she stays longer in the business she will mature enough to think of other things the next time this situation happens. 

Edited March 31, 2022 by slowpoked

[FilmTVGeek80]

3 minutes ago, Bastet said:

That was so gross.  In some ways it bothered me more than the kiss, because he'd had a year to listen and reflect (no, there wasn't a giant outcry calling out his actions as inappropriate, but it certainly was talked and written about) and still thought it so hunky dory it would be great to make a joke about it.

Back then, there was some backlash, but I don’t think it was widespread or considered that big of a deal. I think it was a spur of a moment thing he did, but it wasn’t something he planned on doing again when he was actually thinking. But, there were still plenty of people who thought it had been a fun moment, so he played on it with the breath spray thing. The fact he didn’t do it again speaks more to him learning his lesson, so to speak, then him joking about it. And Hollywood still seems to think it’s somewhat funny, though this time with the genders reversed given Hall’s extended “I’m going to forcibly stick my tongue down your throat and grope men onstage” bit.

[rcc]

16 minutes ago, Ms Blue Jay said:

Yeah and I think that it's bullshit that Adrien got swept up in the moment.  Not disagreeing with you but that consensus.  If he said that, I also call bullshit.

Adrien's done other questionable things too.  If anyone remembers how he infamously introduced Sean Paul on Saturday Night Live.  Shudder.  He's gross.

How did he introduce Sean Penn?

[Ms Blue Jay]

 

[Irlandesa]

42 minutes ago, Crs97 said:

I remember watching back then, and consensus was that Adrien got swept up in the moment and Halle was a good sport.  If she had pushed him away, she would have gotten slammed.

Right.  And she really didn't have much of an opportunity to push him away.  I just rewatched the kiss. I remembered a dip but I forgot how aggressive it was.  He went up to her and engulfed her.  She threw her arms around him, likely expecting a hug.  He put one arm right around her back to hold her tightly against him and the other hand grabbed the back of her head--and his hand is big enough that it basically engulfed her whole head.  He pressed her head to his lips. And then he dipped her back so she was off balance. 

It would have been hard for her to get her arms up in between them to push him away and basically impossible once he had her dipped.

48 minutes ago, FilmTVGeek80 said:

To me, it doesn’t matter that Carrey has done questionable things in the past, because his point is accurate.

Not liking the slap? Sure.  But his "I'm so better than 'Hollywood' attitude?" Nah. That's when his previous BS does matter. There are better people to speak on this.

[Simon Boccanegra]

25 minutes ago, FilmTVGeek80 said:

But, there were still plenty of people who thought it had been a fun moment, so he played on it with the breath spray thing. The fact he didn’t do it again speaks more to him learning his lesson, so to speak, then him joking about it.

Yes. The first thing he says when he takes the stage in 2004 is "Don't worry. They have me under a restraining order." Then there's the breath spray at envelope time. Then he and Charlize Theron (the winner, for Monster) appear to banter a little bit while they're doing the traditional hug-and-peck. It sounds as though she says something like "We're good" and he laughs. 

My issue is that all of it together is kind of horning in on the moment of the 2004 Best Actress winner, making himself too prominent. If I'd been advising him, I'd have told him just to make a classy, above-board presentation and move on from the previous year, rather than making people think about it again. But...eh. 

Edited March 31, 2022 by Simon Boccanegra

[CountryGirl]

42 minutes ago, FilmTVGeek80 said:

 To me, it doesn’t matter that Carrey has done questionable things in the past, because his point is accurate.

Which is your right. But one’s history does matter to me. Which is not to say that people cannot learn and grow from mistakes. Most people anyway  

Regardless, I hardly need him or anyone else to school me on what I saw with my own eyes.

In any event, I have said all I care to on Jim Carrey.

 

 

 

[FilmTVGeek80]

6 minutes ago, Irlandesa said:

Right.  And she really didn't have much of an opportunity to push him away.  I just rewatched the kiss. I remembered a dip but I forgot how aggressive it was.  He went up to her and engulfed her.  She threw her arms around him, likely expecting a hug.  He put one arm right around her back to hold her tightly against him and the other hand grabbed the back of her head--and his hand is big enough that it basically engulfed her whole head.  He pressed her head to his lips. And then he dipped her back so she was off balance. 

It would have been hard for her to get her arms up in between them to push him away and basically impossible once he had her dipped.

Not liking the slap? Sure.  But his "I'm so better than 'Hollywood' attitude?" Nah. That's when his previous BS does matter. There are better people to speak on this.

You’re basically giving the slow motion play-by-play of the moment. It wasn’t that aggressive IMO and happened pretty fast.

I’m sure all those other above reproach people in HOLLYWOOD will be allowed to comment about this without Twitter sleuths unearthing the time that person got in a brawl in high school and are just big old hypocrites who aren’t allowed to express their opinions.