S05.E04: Dog-Whistle Politics

[Tara Ariano]

A familiar face returns to help Huck and Quinn deal with the media uproar Olivia is facing. Meanwhile, Jake comes across someone he never expected to see again; and Fitz learns the true value of mercy.

[bmoore4026]

Well, what Mellie was worried about isn't an issue anyone, is it?  She doesn't care anymore if people see her impeach move as vindictive because that's exactly what it is.

 

Also, Cyrus is glad he left Mellie's office with his skin literally intact.  A sane woman, who just had her dead son thrown in her face, would have ripped the big mouth's skin off.

 

I like Harrison 2.0.  He gets shit done.

 

And Fitz had a major stroke induced in the former vice president.  I'm pretty sure he can do something similar with a bunch of asshole Senators.

 

And, Jake's "Let me in" scene made me wish this song was playing:

[SimoneS]

Figured out how I can keep watching, just change the channel when Jake and B-whatever comes on. 

 

I enjoyed Fitz going to take Olivia out on a date. Finally, something different on this show. 

 

Cyrus' rant about loving Fitz made me roll my eyes. The only person Cyrus loves is himself. He did not even love James. Hopefully, Michael is acting as Ella's primary's parent.

Edited October 16, 2015 by SimoneS

[Free]

Well, what Mellie was worried about isn't an issue anyone, is it?  She doesn't care anymore if people see her impeach move as vindictive because that's exactly what it is.

 

More like desperation, she lost her son, the affair has been outed, etc.  She had nothing to lose anymore.

[KaveDweller]

I like new gladiator guy. First for his speech in response to Quinn's job offer, then for defending Olivia to the press. I know Liv a aid she would have done what Abby did, but I don't really know what Fitz gained from that.

I did like that Fitz was all "screw the smart play, I work for the people," but only while I thought he was talking about saving his bill more than avoiding impeachment. Showing up to take Olivia out was just dumb. I know it was supposed to be some declaration of love, but it just came off as dumb.

[Free]

I like new gladiator guy. First for his speech in response to Quinn's job offer, then for defending Olivia to the press. I know Liv a aid she would have done what Abby did, but I don't really know what Fitz gained from that.

 

It was a nice throwback to the pilot's opening scene.

[Chaos Theory]

I like the new Gladiator and especially the interview stuff at the end....the rest not so much. I think I might be done with this show. I don't hate watch tv and hate watching is all this show is good for anymore. I am actually almost offended with the show making Mellie a bad guy getting in the way of Fitz and Olivia Twu luv. How dare she! How dare she feel hurt and betrayed that her husband cheated on her for years and then left her for his mistress and did it in full view of the public. How dare she!

[reggiejax]

And Fitz had a major stroke induced in the former vice president.  I'm pretty sure he can do something similar with a bunch of asshole Senators.

 

I thought that was Mellie who did that to the VP. 

 

And the Senators, or that one Senator in particular, may be assholes, but I really want them to take Fitz to the woodshed. If only for what he said toward the end, about his administration being about doing the right thing. Tony Goldwyn should get an Emmy for saying that with a straight face.

 

Cyrus must have just teleported in from a Douglas Sirk movie, what with all the melodrama he was bringing. 

Edited October 16, 2015 by reggiejax

[arty]

I truly wonder what Fitz's thought process was..."I am the President of the United States. I want to do the Right Thing, which means that I uphold the Constitution, which means that I serve the American people, all of which can only mean -- Eureka!-- I must take Olivia out on a very public date."

 

What??

[bmoore4026]

I truly wonder what Fitz's thought process was..."I am the President of the United States. I want to do the Right Thing, which means that I uphold the Constitution, which means that I serve the American people, all of which can only mean -- Eureka!-- I must take Olivia out on a very public date."

 

What??

 

Try not to think.  Thinking brings pain.

[sluggish neko]

Can we spin Jake and Paris and all that spy nonsense into a new show that I can ignore? They're completely disconnected from the main plot.

 

I'm disappointed that Olivia did nothing but hide in her tower (and read internet comments-- she should know better... internet peoples are mean!) until Fitz came to rescue her. As she herself mentioned, his constant need to rescue her is offensive. I had hoped Liv would have been more proactive. Maybe she couldn't leave her apartment, but she could have at least strategized instead of leaving it all to Huck and Quinn. Well, unless she wanted everyone criticizing her murdered and disappeared. Cuz that's what Huck and Quinn know how to do best.

 

Glad to see Marcus join the team. He seems competent and he has a moral compass. Wonder how long he'll keep it while working at OPA.

 

Who's idea was it to send Huck on tv? He's not the person to send to do talky public stuff.

 

David Rosen sighting! He still exists! I'm happy.

[Artsda]

I really don't understand the purpose of attacking and throwing Olivia to the wolves as a slutty social climber to the press only for Fitz to show up with a motorcade and take her on a public date. They could have easily sat down with the interviewer, done the interview and declare the same thing or Fitz could have done it alone declare he fell in love and spin it a different way too.

 

Like the new Gladiator a lot. Marcus is great and liked the nod to pilot and history in hiring him. 

 

Don't care at all about Jake, a wife, Eli and anything B13. Did love seeing Charlie though.

 

Really adding Liz as regular seem pointless. She seems to do be able to actually control or do anything. Liv is doing her job telling Fitz not to fire Abby. At this point Fitz should get Cyrus back.

Edited October 16, 2015 by Artsda

[buttersister]

Ha, Jake and Not!JenniferGarner in Paris were hilarious. Should he be bringing her home at the same time he's declared war on Rowan? No.

 

Fitz, you petulant teenager. You're going to work for the people by taking Liv out on a date---because that's what all the People-reading, TMZ-watching citizens of our great nation really want!

 

And Cyrus, have you had  a stroke?

[reggiejax]

Glad to see Marcus join the team. He seems competent and he has a moral compass. Wonder how long he'll keep it while working at OPA.

 

He has a moral compass, so long as it doesn't involve telling the cops what happened to the body of the Mayor's murdered wife. 

 

When Liv has that in her past, and it is one of her lesser crimes, I tend to not care too much that the mean remarks of a bunch of dorks on the internet made her cry.

 

Fuck her and her new gladiator.

Edited October 16, 2015 by reggiejax

[Anna Yolei]

Fitz, you petulant teenager. You're going to work for the people by taking Liv out on a date---because that's what all the People-reading, TMZ-watching citizens of our great nation really want!

I fail to see how this could be spun as a good thing. A sitting President openingly dating one of his mistresses--one he's been suspected of banging for years by now at that.

As someone else put it, it's something new beyond yet another breakup/makeup and it's not B613. Even with their toxic relationship in the foreground, this season is leaps and bounds more enjoyable that season three and the 30 minutes of season four that I sat through.

[Happycatisfine]

What kind of dumbass (Liv) has the curtains open on her "safe house"????  I have no respect for her as a professional or as a ladder-climbing ho-ah when she pulls this stupid shit that even the least of husband-stealers in the world's public eye would know not to do.  WTF?  Idiot!  And to think it's okay to go out on a presidential date with the Secret Service in tow!  They are both fucking idiots and I cannot stand them!  I hope Mellie takes them both down politically, and they end up disowned and together, just like they want.  Let's see how that ends.  I wish this show had not turned so much on these 2 idiots and their scandal and had given us weekly scandals that weren't so insultingly stupid.

[Oblique Angle]

So, wonder if we're going to find out that Jake doesn't know he's a father?

 

I was surprised one of Fitz' fellow Republicans (oh please) was actually allowed to give subtle voice to their political base's main issue with Olivia: she's Black. Perhaps in Scandalworld the GOP's base still is largely the Southern states where the older voters still don't cotton to race-mixin'.

 

Was glad to see the new guy finally but I was not thrilled to hear him use the made-up word "gladiate". AFAIC, it's bad enough that this show was founded on the misuse the concept of gladiators to begin with but five seasons in I'm mostly over that. However, I think their now trying to verb the misused noun is taking things to the next crappy level. Thousands of dead citizens of the Roman Empire must be spinning in their tombs.

 

Also, Cyrus is glad he left Mellie's office with his skin literally intact.  A sane woman, who just had her dead son thrown in her face, would have ripped the big mouth's skin off.

IKR? Cyrus has apparently lost most of his marbles. He considers Fitz like his child? Ugh. I feel so sorry for little Ella since her adoptive daddy has such a weird concept of parenthood. (And I know Cyrus' little speech to Mellie was probably written for Jeff Perry's Emmy reel but that had to be some of the most repugnant dialogue I've ever heard.)

 

I know it was supposed to be some declaration of love, but it just came off as dumb.

I agree. This show apparently exists in some sci-fi universe where the American public is no longer puritanical and is just fine with their married president openly "dating" someone not his wife. But since Fitz is a lame duck it probably doesn't matter unless this fantasy world's Congress actually does manage to impeach him before he finishes his term.

Edited October 16, 2015 by Oblique Angle

[Scootman]

So Mellie's plan is to impeach Fitz, and make Susan Ross the first woman president? And then run in a primary against President Ross (who would certainly change her mind about being the Prez once she actually has the job)? And of course, in such a case super-Liv would run Susan's campaign against Mellie (probably with Cyrus).

 

This doesn't sound like a great plan.

[Guest]

Ugh, this show. Was tonight supposed to be a parody?

From the ominous music that played whenever the Republican leadership was on screen to Quinn trying to copy Harrison's speech, to "oh, you're going by Jake?" when Jake was in the Navy as Jake before he was in B613 so I'm pretty sure that's his real name, to hidden marriage, estranged wife is the only one who can help solve the crime- it really felt like a parody.

But hey, Teddy does still exist! I was starting to wonder.

[TheOtherOne]

That little move Abby did when she saw Fitz in Liz's office and tried to run away? How old is she? That is not how an adult behaves.

 

It's funny how outraged Fitz was at Olivia's treatment by the media when he's the first one to invite that on her when he first leaked her identity as his mistress at the end of season 2/beginning of season 3. She would have gone through all of this back then, and he didn't give a damn, if Mellie and Cyrus hadn't covered it up.

 

Uh, Fitz is the worst. Just so, so stupid.

Edited October 17, 2015 by TheOtherOne

[Empress1]

I LOVED hearing all the racially coded language (I cannot tell you how many times I've been called articulate, "you speak so well," etc.) dropped in the episode because I know Shonda knows exactly what it means. And then to have ALL that shit laid bare in that media segment at the end was music to my "young[ish], gifted and black" ears. It was worth the whole episode (Jake ex Paris whatever).?When Marcus was talking about what he overheard in the grocery store, I was nodding. Shonda is excellent at describing and showing what it's like to be a black professional in a white world - which makes sense given her field. So many of those small "paper cut" experiences, like being mistaken for the assistant, are my experiences and it's refreshing to see them. Marcus is a good addition, and I've been saying they need associates.

I'm never going to accept "gladiate" though.

I found Cyrus's "Fitz is my son" dialogue completely repugnant. Just gross. That moment with Teddy, who I had quite literally forgotten about (he's like 5 now!) was cute.

[Mama No Life]

So much of this show doesn't make sense. Huck on TV?  I think I nodded off during the Jake stuff b/c I woke up and he was trying to talk some woman into returning home with him. Don't know, don't care.

 

And I know it's not cool to like Olitz but I do.  I loved her reaction to his showing up at the end...flabbergasted would be the best word.  Trying to be upset but so touched. I love them together happy.  It's okay, I know I'm alone.

 

I'm sure when he said he was going to do the right thing it meant he wasn't going to cave to the senators but instead just own who and what he is. I kinda liked it, and Abby did too.

 

Back to my closet for one....

[silverwings]

So I really liked the entire episode (until Fitz shows up to take Olivia out). She just said she doesn't want to be rescued and then he comes in and rescues her. Ugh.

 

Loved the gladiator. Please go back to S1/S2 type stories, show!  Less B613, especially when it is so obviously that Jake's undead wife is running Lazurus.  You couldn't have made that more obvious if you tried.

 

I finally thought we had a good Fitz moment - I work for the people! I thought maybe they'd leak how he was being blackmailed by senators to remove key legislation the people *like* over not impeaching him for the affair.  Also, for the affair? C'mon - impeach him for going to war to get his sidepiece back! I can totally get behind that.

 

The point of view of the lady senators was spot on, though. It's always the women who get raked over while the men remain blameless, as if an affair is just something that happens to them.

[Haleth]

Do the right thing?  Fitz wouldn't know the right thing if it bit him in the ass.  The right thing would have been to maintain appearances with Mellie for the next 18 months and then divorce once he was out of office.  The right thing?  Never mind all the corrupt and illegal things he's done in office... murders and going to war.  The right thing?  Maybe the right thing for his ego and libido, but not the right thing for his family or Liv or the country.

 

Jake's ex shot herself, didn't she?  I came in late so I have no idea what that plotline was about, but she's obviously a bad guy.  She messed with the camera and staged the shooting.

[Eolivet]

Man, Fitz is just damned if he does and damned if he doesn't.

 

I didn't see this as a "rescue" at all -- but rather Fitz allowing some blame to be tossed his way, putting himself in the line of fire, so to speak. I saw the White House strategy as "throw Liv under the bus," and then basically remain silent and allow the media to excoriate Liv. Which they happily did (and in the most coded language possible). And then Fitz was tossed a lifeline to avoid impeachment by basically compromising his principles. He had the chance to walk away from this, scot-free.

 

Sure, the "right" thing would've been to stay with Mellie, but after that, I believe the "right" thing is to say "I did the crime, so if you want to come at someone, here I am." Olivia is a good story, but the President is an even better story. With this public display, the attention immediately shifts to Fitz and his role in the affair -- and away from Liv. Which is right, considering they were both willing participants. Why should Liv have to deal with rape threats because the media is painting her as some trashy whore and the White House is letting them?

 

I liked Fitz a lot last night in those last few minutes -- the first few seasons of the show were about others cleaning up messes he created. Finally, I saw him accepting responsibility and owning his messes. He's compromising what little principles he has left and not accepting the easy way out of Impeachment. After years of everyone coddling him and protecting him and making him look good, he's throwing mud on himself. And I say it's about freaking time!

 

Yes, his decision makes for a very bad world leader, but for a few minutes, he wasn't all that bad of a guy.

 

I can't wait for the fallout -- I hope we get impeachment hearings. It's what the show has been heading to since day 1, in my opinion, and after years of spinning its wheels, I'm thrilled they're going there.

[SimoneS]

I liked Fitz a lot last night in those last few minutes -- the first few seasons of the show were about others cleaning up messes he created. Finally, I saw him accepting responsibility and owning his messes. He's compromising what little principles he has left and not accepting the easy way out of Impeachment. After years of everyone coddling him and protecting him and making him look good, he's throwing mud on himself. And I say it's about freaking time!

 

Yes, his decision makes for a very bad world leader, but for a few minutes, he wasn't all that bad of a guy.

 

I can't wait for the fallout -- I hope we get impeachment hearings. It's what the show has been heading to since day 1, in my opinion, and after years of spinning its wheels, I'm thrilled they're going there.

 

If I could have given your post 10 thumbs up, I would. I have always felt like Fitz wanted to take a stand and choose Olivia, but he allowed himself to be persuaded otherwise mostly because underneath it all, he wants to be President and have that power. At the end of last night's episode, it was Fitz finally choosing Olivia without the safety net. I liked that. He cannot be impeached for having an affair and wanting a divorce so they will have to find another reason. The show is finally moving the Olivia and Fitz's romantic plot and I like that.

[BigBlueMastiff]

 

The point of view of the lady senators was spot on, though. It's always the women who get raked over while the men remain blameless, as if an affair is just something that happens to them.

When Cyrus, whined, but he's a man, I just wanted to punch him in the face. I am so sick of men excusing their behavior by attributing it to being a man, eff you, be an adult.

 

Also, how did Olivia, ever think saying yes was a good idea? For someone of her caliber and in her profession to publicly out herself as the president's mistress is incomprehensible. This is/was never going to end well.

[Primetimer]

Olivia Pope and Associates hires hottie Marcus to help with their PR problem, and he gives them a master class in how the media perpetuates racism.

Read the story

[mwell345]

I was bored out of my skull.

 

I just wonder what went through Olivia and Quinn's minds when Huck said "Do you want me to kill the cable?"

[St. Claire]

David Rosen sighting! He still exists! I'm happy.

 

But is he still Attorney General of the United States? I don't think he had a line where he reminded us of that.

 

The hide-and-seek scene made me smile. Any good will I had toward Fitz because of that scene evaporated when he took his motorcade to Olivia's apartment, though.

 

I liked the episode calling out the idea of the dog whistle politics, although I hated Huck being on a talk show and just repeating the term. I've never heard the news reports/pundits refer to white shooters as "thugs" (I live in the suburbs of Baltimore, so I heard a lot of commentary during the riots).  I am "pushy" when I advocate my ideas at work, the male project managers are "strong advocates."  I've never heard the term "dog whistle politics" to describe that coded language, but I know it when I hear it about women, and I am learning to recognize it about race.

[Empress1]

I just wonder what went through Olivia and Quinn's minds when Huck said "Do you want me to kill the cable?"

When Huck said he'd rented the apartment across from Liv's for a few hundred bucks over market value, I was like "Oh, right, they did say one time that he's a billionaire. I remember that."

[Jade Foxx]

 

What kind of dumbass (Liv) has the curtains open on her "safe house"????

 

Those curtains especially offended me, they were hideous. 

Edited October 16, 2015 by Jade Foxx

[WhineandCheez]

Cyrus' rant was a bizarre as the finest of Papa Pope's rants.  All that was missing was that awesome 1970's wig he wore 6 episodes ago during his life flashback. I have a hard time believing that Quinn and Huck are handling clients, without murdering them all, as Liv implied.

Edited October 16, 2015 by WhineandCheez

[marcee]

I'm so disgusted with Fitz. How gross is he, really? A grown man, let alone the President, goes to his mistress' house while he's still married - in the public eye, on TV, in front of the world and his children - and tells his secret service to look away so he can make out with his girlfriend!? How are we supposed to be rooting for this? It's just so gross. How can anyone think he's a likable or respectable person?

[Iamsweetdee]

How are we supposed to be rooting for this? It's just so gross.

 

I'm rooting for it quite easily.  The name of the show is Scandal and well, they're giving it to me. All I could ask for, actually. About time he stepped up to the plate truly chose Olivia. They are messy, scandalous, outrageous and over the top. It's why I watch TV dramas. They aren't real and I don't get them confused.  I get my life lessons in real life. 

Edited October 16, 2015 by Iamsweetdee

[Jade Foxx]

 

I'm so disgusted with Fitz. How gross is he, really? A grown man, let alone the President, goes to his mistress' house while he's still married - in the public eye, on TV, in front of the world and his children - and tells his secret service to look away so he can make out with his girlfriend!? How are we supposed to be rooting for this? It's just so gross. How can anyone think he's a likable or respectable person?

 

Because, Shonda.

[reggiejax]

I thought maybe they'd leak how he was being blackmailed by senators to remove key legislation the people *like* over not impeaching him for the affair.  Also, for the affair? C'mon - impeach him for going to war to get his sidepiece back! I can totally get behind that.

 

The affair, in and of itself, is not what his impeachment will be over. The affair is a starting point as to whether or not improprieties (that's putting it lightly) took place in the Oval Office as a consequence of the affair. Just like what happened with Clinton. Which is surprisingly a realistic portrayal. I mean what Shonda Rhimes seemingly knows about how Washington really works could fit into a thimble with plenty of room to spare. But this they seem to be getting right.

 

But otherwise this episode was filled with things that made me howl. There was so much that a thousand posts couldn't begin to cover it, but one I thought was very emblematic of how ridiculous this entire fictional universe is was Quinn getting all smug towards the interviewer who shifted focus away from Liv to her past as Lindsay Dwyer, the Molotov Mistress. 

 

Quinn's past is not central to the issue of an affair Liv had, but when the light does shine on Liv's activities, as it no doubt now will during Fitz impeachment, it will become pertinent. It will because, if we all remember, Quinn is only not in jail because Liv got the late Verna to wildly overstep her bounds and influence the judge to, completely apropos of nothing, issue a motion to acquit Quinn. A move that made absolutely no sense, not even in Shondaland. Sorry Quinn, but if you are going to put yourself out there, that little nugget from your past cannot be ignored. And, affair or not, when Liv is that influential,  the press and the public have a right to know just what OPA is up to. 

 

Now I know Quinn was being set up and was completely innocent, but that doesn't change the fact that Liv, Fitz and their cohorts treat the institutions of this country as merely bothersome playthings. And that is before we even start with the body count.

 

No amount of spin changes the fact that Liv is only missing the white cat to complete her super villain ensemble. And just because her nemesis is her father, a man who makes Dr. Evil sound understated and reasonable, doesn't change anything about Liv's own villainy.

[Eliz]

I love the focus on the coded language stuff, but are we all just ignoring the fact that they got the definition of dog whistle politics wrong??

When people sound a dog whistle, the audience who is intended to hear the whislte is not the person being talked about, but the people who think like the speaker. When someone says racist things in coded language, the people who are supposed to be able to hear that and pick up the real meaning are the other people who know the code -- that is, other people who share those racists beliefs. The whole point of it is so that people can say things that sound innocuous on their face, but they are able to convey the real meaning to the rest of their group.

Pedant out.

[Eolivet]

I disagree with that, actually, because it presumes people intend to be racists/sexists more than racism/sexism is institutionalized or ingrained. It's true, I don't know the first person who ever invented those phrases "articulate" and "well-spoken", and if those people were intentionally racist, but I'm sure there are plenty of people who have used those phrases (including me, when I was younger and didn't know any better) and meant them as compliments, because they don't sound like secret racist code: they sound like compliments.

 

I know this is a very flawed analogy, but I also grew up hearing things about how a woman dresses dictates the amount of self-respect she has -- that you want to look "classy." It sounds perfectly logical: that women should adhere to certain standards of appearance in order to show their character. Until one starts to dissect who sets the standards (men) and what it reveals about a woman's character to a man (that if she does not look classy, she gives men permission to treat her as less than she is [sexually]). Now I hear that phrase and I know it's meant for me, as a woman -- even if it's from another woman: that I'd better adhere to the standards male society sets out for me to follow or risk being judged unfavorably. But at the same time...who wouldn't want to be called "classy?" So, I don't think every man who's called a woman classy is a sexist pig, because it sounds like a nice thing.

 

Also, in order for dog-whistle politics to be about the addressor and not the addressee, one has to assume that the media is intentionally making racist and sexist comments. Love or hate the media, I don't think you would ever see intentional racism or sexism from them. Unintentional/institutional racism, sure. But I can't believe the media is purposely spreading those messages.

 

And I thought that was the purpose of the Marcus/Quinn/Huck speaking tour: that the media thinks they're "reporting the story," but in doing so, they're using a bunch of phrases that sound harmless, but are actually harmful. I don't believe the media is rubbing its hands in evil glee to take down a woman of color, but by casually throwing out ingrained racist and sexist messages, they are unintentionally perpetuating racism and sexism. That was my interpretation, anyway.

Edited October 16, 2015 by Eolivet

[Tetraneutron]

Everything about Washington is good soapy fun. Completely unrealistic, of course, but that's not why anybody watches a Shondaland show. And they're finally addressing that Fitz is the least Republican Republican ever! He makes Obama look like Ted Cruz. You have intrigue, fighting, cheating, soapyness. It's great. I don't even care that it makes no sense for Mellie to try to impeach Fitz. 

 

The B613 plot? The dumbest thing on television, and I include every Kardashian show in that. I include every Donald Trump interview in that. First, last season's finale made such a big deal about every D527 agent being dead. But not only are Jake, Huck and Quinn still alive, but so's Charlie? And now Jake's mysterious ex? And of course Fitz and Cyrus and all the people who know about it? And what does Rowan want to do with Q856 anyway? If he's this all-powerful guy, who can make the whole world bend to his will with no oversight and limitless money to back it up, why doesn't he ever DO anything besides interfere in his adult daughter's love life? And why, if as this episode says, he life's goal is to raise a black woman who feels just as entitled as a powerful white man, does he constantly undermine her, belittle her, and treat her like a stupid little girl who made daddy mad? Why does he always get in her way and undercut her doing her job? Why is he so fucking obsessed with who her boyfriend is?

 

Anyway, if F963 were that powerful, wouldn't Rowan prevent that bald Republican Senator from going back on the Brandon Bill deal? I'm sure Rowan is if favour of racist trigger-happy cops being held accountable. So why doesn't he use his limitless power for anything but obnoxious speeches? Why not actually enact policy that would have any effect whatsoever on "The Republic"? What has he done with his unlimited power? Ordered Fitz to shoot down a plane to prevent a terrorist attack, and then what? He didn't prevent an election bevelling stolen. He didn't prevent a war? He was never responsible for any policy that ever benefitted anyone? Has there been any instance where Y538 actually does something positive? Instead he's a one-man terrorist cell with no goals that other characters inexplicably listen to. Am I wrong?

 

Rowan and Jake should be spun off into some Alias-type show I can ignore. 

 

And why doesn't any character ever tell him to shut up? I will seriously pay Shonda for that to happen, even once, before the show ends. 

[ThomasAAnderson]

 

Fitz, you petulant teenager. You're going to work for the people by taking Liv out on a date---because that's what all the People-reading, TMZ-watching citizens of our great nation really want!

Anyone who wants to fully exist in the 21st century knows there's a segment of society that will need to be dragged kicking and screaming into it. Then there are the others who don't know they hold bigoted ideas so they have to be thoroughly reeducated (i.e. intersectionality)

After Fitz called himself the 44th president I realized that the Scandal-verse is totally separate from reality.  

 

 

Love or hate the media, I don't think you would ever see intentional racism or sexism from them.

 

You mean the media that gleefully participated in the search for Barack Obama's birth certificate? Referred to his wife as his 'baby mama'? That routinely refers to his wife as 'angry'? That after getting called on saying "articulate" reduced his oratory skill to "teleprompter reading". There was actually a magazine article in which the writer complained that Obama walks too confidently.  This same  media that's obsessed with Hillary's hair and pants suits? The media knows exactly what it's doing when it refers to black boys as "thugs" and white criminals as "mentally ill". Biker gang vs. Motocycle club...I could go on but I'm sure you get the drift.

 

 

So Mellie's plan is to impeach Fitz, and make Susan Ross the first woman president? And then run in a primary against President Ross (who would certainly change her mind about being the Prez once she actually has the job)?

Someone said a while back that Mellie isn't savvy and doesn't have nearly the political chops she thinks she does. While it's terrible that she's being cheated on can we put to bed this notion that she's this genius being held back.

 

 

I'm so disgusted with Fitz. How gross is he, really? A grown man, let alone the President, goes to his mistress' house while he's still married

Rudy Guiliani moved his mistress into Gracie Mansion with his wife and kids. Only New Yorkers know that because it happened pre-9/11.  Sandford hiked the Appalachian trail; Gavin Newsome was elected Lieutenant Governor as the show emphasized last night, only the woman gets punished when these events occur.

 

Cyrus' rant was gross and creepy. It reminded me of the way gay characters were once portrayed as always frustrated and using affection in friendship as a cover for more lustful thoughts. Actually he was very much like Judi Dench in Notes on a Scandal!

 

As a black woman who's almost always "the only one" all of this episode resonated with me . Thank you Shonda for an amazing episode!

 

 

 

. 

Edited October 16, 2015 by ThomasAAnderson

[Oblique Angle]

Only New Yorkers know that because it happened pre-9/11. 

It was talked about on various forums on the internet. I knew about it and I've never lived anywhere near New York.

 

Actually he was very much like Judi Dench in Notes on a Scandal!

He was also like the character played by Will Patton in No Way Out, a gay man revealed to be in love with his shady, philandering boss, the Secretary of Defense. In the mid-1980s such a plot development could still come across as a bit scandalous. I was surprised Scandal didn't take that route but at this point it probably would have seemed silly for an older gay man to be lusting after a known poonhound.

 

But I can't believe the media is purposely spreading those messages.

OMG, watch Fox News any hour of the day, any day of the week.

[Eolivet]

Good point about Fox News. I was thinking more of the mainstream media, as I think they can be unintentionally racist or sexist, but I didn't consider deliberately incendiary media outlets. I thought the Marcus/Quinn/Huck speaking tour was supposed to be on more mainstream shows like "Meet the Press." The ones who call Hillary Clinton "Mrs. Clinton" not because they're sexist pigs deliberately reducing a woman's accomplishments to her marriage, but because it's just how they do things and nobody has ever told them it's wrong.

 

That was a huge gathering of media that Marcus addressed, so I thought it was speaking more to contemporary reporting than a deliberate smear campaign. If Marcus was talking about (and to) deliberately incendiary media outlets, I like the subplot less. That's less of an opportunity for education and more of an exercise in futility.

[Tetraneutron]

That Cyrus speech to Mellie was deeply bizarre. It's 2015, no one believes anymore that gay men are sexual predators in love with hapless pretty straight men, least of all anyone in Shondaland. And after 5 years, where just about the ONLY consistent characterization is that Cyrus is a ruthless power broker motivated by his ambition and the knowledge that he can never be the President he deserves to be because he's gay . . . now suddenly everything Curus did was because he saw Fitz as his child? That somehow manages to be insulting to Cyrus, Fitz, and Mellie. And his actual child, which the show may or may not remember exists. She's better off being raised by the blackmailing prostitute Cyrus married for political purposes. 

 

It makes no sense. Cyrus was (in his view) screwed over by Fitz, so he teams up with Mellie to either get back at Fitz or to enact his own agenda and taste power again. Fine, either works. But now he's motivated by his deep, personal love for a man he's used, lied to, and manipulated the last 4 years? And him working with Mellie is what, then? A long con? Does he want to use her to get back into power with her as the President? Is his advice to Mellie supposed to be helpful? Does he want Fitz to forgive him? What the hell were the Cyrus/Melliie scenes about?

 

Shonda is usually right on the money when she tries to make sociological points. But if they aren't grounded in developed characters, what are we even watching. 

 

Also, I like new Marcus, mostly because he hasn't had time to do anything stupid yet. And I hope adding a staff member to OPA means there are going to be more OPA plots. It's kind of dumb how we're supposed to assume her business is as thriving as ever when the staff is at 50% of what it was in season one and the boss spends all day hiding and googling herself. 

[CofCinci]

If I wanted to watch Alias, I'd break out the DVDs. The Jake/SD-6/B69 stuff is so disconnected from the main story.

[Eliz]

I disagree with that, actually, because it presumes people intend to be racists/sexists more than racism/sexism is institutionalized or ingrained.

I think this was in response to my comment? I respect everything you're saying, and I think it's smart and good and completely on point for how the Scandal writers were using the phrase dog whistle politics. My point is that they didn't make up that phrase; it's a thing that already exists in the world and has an established meaning, and its established meaning is not what the show said it was.

Also, while I think you make a good point about institutional racism being as harmful as intentional bigotry, I do think that in the show Marcus was in fact accusing the various media outlets of intentionally using all those code words about Olivia to say "look! the real scandal here is that the president has a black mistress!"

[ToukieSmith]

 

Rudy Guiliani moved his mistress into Gracie Mansion with his wife and kids. Only New Yorkers know that because it happened pre-9/11.  Sandford hiked the Appalachian trail; Gavin Newsome was elected Lieutenant Governor as the show emphasized last night, only the woman gets punished when these events occur.

I remember this (I am a Texan).  I remember how Donna Hanover was made to look like some homely, shrill bitch that was not as glamorous and wonderful as the sainted Judith who took care of Rudy when he had cancer.  I still cannot believe New Yorkers did not raise enough hell to get the mistress out of their house.  As I recall, this situation ended Rudy's chance to run for President....as it should have.

 

 

That Cyrus speech to Mellie was deeply bizarre. It's 2015, no one believes anymore that gay men are sexual predators in love with hapless pretty straight men, least of all anyone in Shondaland. And after 5 years, where just about the ONLY consistent characterization is that Cyrus is a ruthless power broker motivated by his ambition and the knowledge that he can never be the President he deserves to be because he's gay . . . now suddenly everything Curus did was because he saw Fitz as his child?

 

This does not sound like a good turn for the character.  I was hoping to see some Machiavellian moves, not a bunch of mooning over the fair Fitz.

Edited October 17, 2015 by ToukieSmith

[represent]

 

I still cannot believe New Yorkers did not raise enough hell to get the mistress out of their house.

Believe it, at least from this New Yorker cause I'm not gonna speak for us all. But I was born and raised there and this isn't something I gave a shit about. I heard it on the local news every night, didn't care for Guiliani, but...whatever.  Besides, Yankee Stadium was more the people's house for this New Yorker, not Gracie Mansion, LOL.

This show is when I get up and take a restroom break on TGIT, seriously. I always half watch it because I don't know how I feel about Fitz and Liv but my interest in them runs hot/cold. Maybe if they give the former first lady some wins it might get interesting.

 

Has she had any wins? Again, I don't watch consistently.

 

Oh and I did see Cyrus' rant and I truly thought that he was referring to the presidency itself, the oval office...I swear I did not think deep down he was referring to Fitz.  He's losing it right? 

Edited October 17, 2015 by represent

[Tetraneutron]

She had a win in that she got to be Senator, I guess. But since her stated goal for the whole show has been to be President, until that happens she can't get a win. She isn't going to get Fitz to love her the way he loves Olivia, because that's the whole show, and she isn't going to be President until Fitz's term is up (maybe) so she's destined to be screwed over. 

[represent]

 

She isn't going to get Fitz to love her the way he loves Olivia

But does she really love Fitz? Like in that love of my life, passionate way?  So would Fitz loving her be a win really? Maybe a win for her ego more than her heart I guess. I always got the impression that maybe she might have been fond of him a bit at one time, but that it was more a team that the two forged to make it to the White House and then once his time was over she would get her chance at power. I thought the main bond or passion that they shared was making it to the top in the political world. 

 

I never got this deep love, like Olivia was stealing the love of her life much less a man she truly loved. 

Edited October 17, 2015 by represent