Episode Discussion: TFGH

[Melgaypet]

Even now, I haven't entirely let go of the idea that Stavros is Sam's father, though it makes me feel like part of the problem re: the prevalence of rape stories on soaps.

[Greta]

Kristina Bergman was Stavros and Stefan's nanny who became an opera singer after becoming Mikkos' mistress, which strongly suggests he bought at least the start of her career.  Also, the fact that she stayed with Helena Cassadine's husband long enough to conceive two children with a few years between them indicates she was not that bright in terms of self-preservation.  And yet Kristina and Mikkos are still more interesting characters, with more dimensions, at least in my head, than the entire canvas of on-screen GH characters.

 

I always thought Stavros and Alexis should have had a consensual teenage experimentation that led to Sam and to Helena telling Stavros that he'd slept with his half-sister, leading to his complete breakdown into psychosis. Much more interesting than born evil Stavros and the usual Alexis is such a strong woman, victimized by cruel outside forces,  blah, blah...

[dubbel zout]

I can appreciate a certain gothicness with the Cassadines, but I find incest in any form so repellent that I can't get on board with Sam being Stavros's.

[Francie]

What I never understood was the back pedaling on Sam's Father, we were told at one point he was more evil and dangerous than Mikkos and he turns out to be Julian? Julian more evil than Mikkos......Ha

You misheard.

 

Alexis said that Sam's father was more primeval and dang porous than Mikkos.

 

I agree with the former, and I'll take Alexis's word as to the latter.

Edited November 30, 2015 by Francie

[Oracle42]

Julian Jerome's new backstory and the casting of WdV are both a bust for me

[Oracle42]

I always thought Stavros and Alexis should have had a consensual teenage experimentation that led to Sam and to Helena telling Stavros that he'd slept with his half-sister, leading to his complete breakdown into psychosis. Much more interesting than born evil Stavros and the usual Alexis is such a strong woman, victimized by cruel outside forces, blah, blah...

Timeline would work and it would make much more sense that Mikkos got rid of Sam and faked her death - because why would he bother to do that otherwise, who cares about Julian Jerome?

Edited December 1, 2015 by Oracle42

[Francie]

Timeline would work and it would make much more sense that Mikkos got rid of her and faked her death - because who cares about Julian Jerome?

Only poor dead Duke, who's looking down at him from cat heaven, waiting for the next of his 9 lives to begin.

[OnceSane]

What I never understood was the back pedaling on Sam's Father, we were told at one point he was more evil and dangerous than Mikkos and he turns out to be Julian? Julian more evil than Mikkos......Ha

  

Even now, I haven't entirely let go of the idea that Stavros is Sam's father, though it makes me feel like part of the problem re: the prevalence of rape stories on soaps.

Yep. I always thought they'd write Stavros as Sam's father.

[backhometome]

WTF @ Valerie blaming Lulu entirely for her marriage being done.

 

How on earth is Lulu, the one who got cheated on, the one to blame. How is Lulu lying, to protect her family, worse than her husband screwing her cousin in her bed. 

 

Date/Valerie both need to jump off a cliff.

 

Lol @ Sam trying to get creeper Jake to spill the beans.

 

Of course Liz brings up Sam/Jason divorcing. She is itching for it to get done ASAP.

[Lillybee]

Val is dead to me now. She is pretending that she has the moral high ground.

[HeatLifer]

Dante and Val can DIAF.

What is Patrick's drug of choice? Jason JUST came back into their lives. WTF w/ his "it's about time" BS? He's dated Sam for not even a year. Like, the writing is a mess.

Lol @ Carly. This is why I want Jason Q.

[ulkis]

Did DZ run over Frank's cat? Take his parking spot? That is the only reason I can think of this bizarre 180 for him in the writing.

 

Unless they are setting up Lulu for a new love interest, I don't see why they would make Dante so damn awful. Unless they're just that dumb.

[backhometome]

Like I'm not even attached to Dante/Lulu as a couple, or Lulu individually, and its making me so angry. Last time I was this angry was when Sam was raped and Jason was acting like the traumatized victim and Sam had to beg her husband to hug her. 

[HeatLifer]

Did DZ run over Frank's cat? Take his parking spot? That is the only reason I can think of this bizarre 180 for him in the writing.

Unless they are setting up Lulu for a new love interest, I don't see why they would make Dante so damn awful. Unless they're just that dumb.

Girl, this is the same show that thought it was a beautiful love story to have Robin a years-long prisoner because she wanted to save Jason while the douchebag she loves moved Jason's wife into their home after 3 months and designated her as Emma's new step-mommy and designated himself as Danny's daddy.

The writers are that dumb.

[aw86]

I can't Lulu Spencer hasn't punched Val in the face or kicked Dante in the balls yet.  They are AWFUL

[bannana]

Did DZ run over Frank's cat? Take his parking spot? That is the only reason I can think of this bizarre 180 for him in the writing.

 

Unless they are setting up Lulu for a new love interest, I don't see why they would make Dante so damn awful. Unless they're just that dumb.

And it feels like even DZ knows it is OOC and he is having trouble playing this.  It would have been better for Dante to realize he'd screwed up again, express his shame and regret to Lulu, and to shoo Valerie out of there as quickly as possible.  This Dante seems like a guy who has been in a marriage he has hated since the beginning and couldn't wait to get out of.  

 

Valerie is a complete bitch.

[backhometome]

 

This Dante seems like a guy who has been in a marriage he has hated since the beginning and couldn't wait to get out of.

Did TG become a writer?

 

I love how Val acts like Dante has done nothing but grovel for months and months. More like 1 singular month. 

Edited November 30, 2015 by backhometome

[ulkis]

Did TG become a writer?

 

I love how Val acts like Dante has done nothing but grovel for months and months. More like 1 singular month. 

 

Not even one month! Lulu found out on Halloween!

[JaggedLilPill]

Did Dante really have the balls to ask Lulu how long he should be expected to wait for her? Whoa. Well, gee, I don't know, Dante. Three weeks, yeah, that's long. Like torture. 

 

I'd love to know how long Dante would have kept Lulu at arm's length if she really had screwed Dillon. I'd say more than a few weeks. But I guess groveling isn't convenient for Dante anymore.

 

Screw off, Dante.

[WhitneyWhit]

The scene with Sonny singing to Avery gave me flashbacks to Sadam Hussein playing with those kids before the first Gulf War.

 

The scene with Jason and Carly makes me wonder if the writers are just fucking with us.

 

"Jason you're sitting on the couch, safe, you're not getting shot or blown up, you're not ruthlessly killing someone on the orders of a bipolar mobster, what's wrong with you? You're a lifeless cyborg, damn it, now you start acting like it".

Edited November 30, 2015 by WhitneyWhit

[WendyCR72]

ABC is a business, so I realize this is not the case, but it seems like this shitty writing is on purpose to get this sucker cancelled.

 

At this point, it's all the show deserves.

[dubbel zout]

This Dante seems like a guy who has been in a marriage he has hated since the beginning and couldn't wait to get out of.

 

I know. The whole story has been so stupid from the first second it started. But I do like that Valerie doesn't let Lulu shame her. Valerie is entirely in the wrong, but it's not up to her to fix things—it's up to Dante.

 

Curtis tried too hard, but so far, I like him. 

 

I like how Laura not so subtly told Nik he thinks with his penis, not his brain, when it comes to his girlfriends. Heh.

 

Sam was terrible at trying to get secrets out of Jake. And way to poke the bear. Does she want to be murdered in her sleep?

 

When did TC get bloated again?

 

Avery's expression when Paul was talking was hilarious.

 

Oh, Ava. She's in the mob yet she's shocked—shocked!—to find weapons. What did she expect was in the crate, matryoshka dolls? Her attitude toward this whole thing is inexplicable to me.

[LeftPhalange]

Dante and Val need to be beaten into a coma. 

 

Liez needs to be sedated. 

 

LOL at mobster Ava being shocked that mobster Paul is smuggling guns.

Edited November 30, 2015 by LeftPhalange

[TeeVee329]

All I caught was the last few seconds...

 

Shut up, Carly.

[Syndicate]

Dante was downright awful today, almost vicious.  If the writers' goal is to get most of the audience to hate Dante thoroughly, then BRAVO, I think they've succeeded.  I would love to have seen Lulu punch Valerie to the floor, then grab her by the hair dragging her out of the house while punching her some more.  Valerie deserves that and so much more.  As for our newcomer Curtis?  Don't know yet!  He seems passable enough in his acting but as a contract player, I'm just not sure what they're going to do with him.

[Blackie]

 

Sam was terrible at trying to get secrets out of Jake. And way to poke the bear. Does she want to be murdered in her sleep?

haha!

 

if they are trying to "make" Dante Sonny's son. then they are definately making Valerie the new Carly.  I guess since they are making Sonny and Carly the new matriarch and patriarch then they are wanting to start a dinasty.  AND its crap!!!  I really thought DZ was doing a good job at first at playing the guilt, the loss for words or knowing what do etc but this writing is totally OOC and DZ is giving up.  What is Dante thinking ? He definately wouldn't do this to his marriage OR his career...risking a sexual harassment charge.  there is no way that Jordan would have ever allowed Val to be rookie ride-a-long with Dante, knowing what she knows.  This storyline sucks.

 

And I'm not a proponent of Valerie, but I think I would have punched her in the face. eta:  I hate to admit it but I meant to say I'm not a proponet of violence but I would punch Valerie.  This show is making us all Valerie=violence. 

ETA: I didn't watch Friday, did they really show Dante and Val getting "together" then, I thought from reading posts that it was prob going to be on today.

Edited November 30, 2015 by Blackie

[WendyCR72]

Not GH related exactly, but

Greg Vaughan is out over at Days Of Our Lives.

I wonder if that means a return? Hope not, really. The actor/character deserves better.

[Lillybee]

Snarly, Jason Morgan should scare the life out of almost everyone. I don't blame nuJason for not wanting to go back to that life, especially if it means that he doesn't have to be at Snarly's beck and call.

[dubbel zout]

I thought it was typical Carly (and therefore, rather enjoyable) that she demanded Jason dump Liz, Liz give up Jason, and everyone do her bidding. Because it's what Carly wants that's important here. Hee.

[FilmTVGeek80]

 

I'd love to know how long Dante would have kept Lulu at arm's length if she really had screwed Dillon. I'd say more than a few weeks. But I guess groveling isn't convenient for Dante anymore.

 

Dante didn't even bother to talk to his wife when he thought she was having an affair. He instead choose to climb all over her cousin in their marital bed. By the time Lulu came back, Dante practically had her bags packed and was declaring their marriage over, yet he somehow can't grasp that Lulu might be conflicted over this and need time to cool down, even with the separation papers. 

 

I don't even know what DZ is doing. When Dante was torn up over the possibility of Lulu finding it, he was delivering mostly good performances. When he talked to Sonny about how much it hurt to think of losing Lulu and how much he loved her, I bought it. But now he can't even be bothered to feign any kind of real sadness over the potential end to his marriage or guilt that once again he rushed into sleeping with Valerie.

 

And Valerie can die in a fire. Give me a break that she actually felt any real uilt before this. Trying to put the entirety of what is wrong with Lulu and Dante's marriage on Lulu was ridiculous. And you know what Valerie, considering that Dante was the one who cheated, he should be groveling for forgiveness, but Dante can barely manage to do that.

 

It would be one thing if I actually thought the show were trying to villainize Dante and/or Valerie, but I don't think they are. I think we're supposed to agree with Valerie that this is all Lulu's fault and root for the two scumbag cheaters to rise above and get together.

 

Shut up, Laura. Uh, I know Nikolas is her son and I don't expect her to not love him or hope that he turns his life around, but I couldn't take her caring on about Hayden and how poor Nikolas might get his heart broken. When she started talking about how Nikolas deserved better because Hayden had deceived him for months I rolled my eyes so hard. Nikolas had her SHOT IN THE HEAD. If anyone needs to be counseled on ending this before it begins, it would be her.

 

I don't care how cute MB is with that baby. I had ffwd right past Sonny sharing "cute" bonding time with Avery and "singing" with her. Sonny is not Pa Walton and never will be.

 

Tomorrow is going to be difficult. Who do I hate more - Carly or Liz? Can't they just both choke on their own smug and die?

[Darklazr]

I give no fucks about Hayden being shot in the head or how Nik is basically bored out of his mind.

 

Cujo is and will always be the one that is obsessed with Jason Morgan!

 

Liz and Jake/Jason looked adorable.

 

Little Jake should have hauled off and socked the crap out of the baby terrorizer asking questions about his Mom.

 

Is Danny a mute?!  

 

Valerie owned Lulu's behind in that scene with Dante.  Dante is just so p*ssy whipped now that he's bedding someone other than Lulu!  Get it, Valerie!

 

Laura needs to STFU and have a seat.  This grown woman does not have a J.O.B and she's talking smack and living off her grown ass son.  I like Laura, but she's been meddling for the last six months in Liz and Nik's business instead of just telling Jason or Sam what's really going on.

 

I kept waiting for baby Avery to smack Sonny upside the head with that plastic doll.

 

Here we go with another dumb mob story where Sonny wins and wins and then we start all over with a new villain of the week.

 

Damn.  Curtis?!  is freaking hot and the fact that stupid Hayden just sat there instead of offering up her vagina means the show has turned her into a heroine who can do no wrong!  Why the 180 degree turnaround with this not needed character?!

[KerleyQ]

Did Dante really have the balls to ask Lulu how long he should be expected to wait for her? Whoa. Well, gee, I don't know, Dante. Three weeks, yeah, that's long. Like torture. 

 

I'd love to know how long Dante would have kept Lulu at arm's length if she really had screwed Dillon. I'd say more than a few weeks. But I guess groveling isn't convenient for Dante anymore.

 

Screw off, Dante.

 

He truly is Sonny's son, now, isn't he?  

 

I don't get what the show is going for with these two.  Do they really think Dante/Valerie is some long term, root-able couple?  There's a way to write a pairing like this - where one or both are married, and they try their hardest to ignore their feelings, but this is not it.  We're not seeing this overwhelming chemistry.  We're not seeing this love that can't be denied.  We're not seeing how Dante gets from point to point.  He went from being devastated that he'd cheated on Lulu based on inaccurate assumptions, to being terrified she'd find out and he'd lose her, to "eh, screw her, it took more than five minutes for her to get over it, so I'm going to go screw her cousin in our apartment...again."  And I never even get the impression that he particularly likes Valerie, as much as she's just constantly there, telling him how awesome he is, so why not screw her?  So, so, gross.  

[DanaMB]

And it feels like even DZ knows it is OOC and he is having trouble playing this.  It would have been better for Dante to realize he'd screwed up again, express his shame and regret to Lulu, and to shoo Valerie out of there as quickly as possible.  This Dante seems like a guy who has been in a marriage he has hated since the beginning and couldn't wait to get out of.  

 

Valerie is a complete bitch.

 

 

So true! When Lulu was at the door, it was like SHE was the one who ruined their marriage the way Dante was acting.

 

Dante is a dick.

 

And I don't think DZ is enjoying this either. It looks like he doesn't want to say these lines but knows he has to.

 

Valerie can die any time now. Send her to Salem, everyone's dying there.

Edited November 30, 2015 by DanaMB

[HeatLifer]

I just had another rage-y fit thinking about the horrible writing on this show. It makes NO SENSE for Patrick's pissiness about Jason to be solely about Sam. There is NO HISTORY there. They're engaged. Yeah, I get it. But Patrick's hate for Jason has ALWAYS been about Robin. How is that POV still not there!? How!?

/oh hi I'm ok.

[peachmangosteen]

I like the new guy. Can he be Hayden's love interest instead of Nik, please?

 

WTF is TC doing? His acting was so bad today. I got a good laugh though, so at least there's that.

 

I can't even comment on the Dante/Valerie bullshit because I am just full of rage. OK, wait, I will say one thing, and I don't care how horrible this makes me, BS is awkward looking. Her terrible acting is extenuating how weird her mouth is.

 

Dead Now Alive Jake continues to be my fave character. I hope he goes on his murder spree soon!

 

I'm so ashamed of myself, but they got me with Sonny singing to Avery. Dammit!

 

Ava being so aghast at the guns was just awful. Sigh. And I still have no fucking clue what this Ava/Paul thing is about. Why does he keep rubbing her chin? The whole thing is so bizarre

Edited November 30, 2015 by peachmangosteen

[HeatLifer]

I can't even comment on the Dante/Valerie bullshit because I am just full of rage.

Omg, I know. I'm shocked this show is written by women.

[LeftPhalange]

I continue to be disgusted that Lulu hasn't beaten the shit out of Dante and Val. Even fucking Sabrina probably would have snapped by now. I actually think I hate Val more than Dante. Dante is a piece of shit but Val is practically gleeful over Lante's marriage busting up. And on what planet does the side piece get to blame the spouse that got cheated on? Then she pretends like she used to feel remorse when she knows damn well that she's been scheming to get that dick this whole time. Dead Now Alive Jake needs to come get her. 

[dubbel zout]

And on what planet does the side piece get to blame the spouse that got cheated on?

 

To be fair, she's not going to blame the spouse she's sleeping with: "You're terrible for sleeping with me and wrecking your marriage." 

[OnceSane]

He truly is Sonny's son, now, isn't he?

Well, he has to be something since he's no longer interested in being Lulu's Husband.

[ulkis]

To be fair, she's not going to blame the spouse she's sleeping with: "You're terrible for sleeping with me and wrecking your marriage." 

 

Why blame anyone though? Why not just say, "we had feelings for each other, we're sorry we hurt you but we want to be together?"

[AgentRXS]

Damn, why is every character being written so pathetically? Who are these women writing this show? Have they ever been in a real relationship?

 

Liz/Patrick need to be punched in the face.repeatedly. These are the two people in town who know better than anyone how it is when the love of your life returns from a supposed death, and how long to process who they are now and where they fit in your "new" life. Sam can't even get 5 minutes alone with Jason without the pressure from LizPatrick. Desperation is not a good look on anyone and its even more annoying to watch.UGH

 

If this were real life, Valerie would have been shoved out of the loft wearing only that bedsheet and her clothes thrown out the door before she got a word in edgewise. I know no one is going to talk to me like that in my house, whether I'm actually living there or not.  If I were Lulu, I would be using Nik's Cassadine resources to fuck Dante and Vals shit up. My inner Helena would be full force, minions and all. Fuck that shit. 

Edited December 1, 2015 by AgentRXS

[dubbel zout]

Why blame anyone though? Why not just say, "we had feelings for each other, we're sorry we hurt you but we want to be together?"

 

Because Valerie has to justify her behavior somehow. I can't see her being that magnanimous, and as KerleyQ wrote above, it's hard to believe Dante even likes her. 

Edited November 30, 2015 by dubbel zout

[rur]

Once Sonny started singing, my first and only thought was, "Oh, Sh**! Somewhere down the line, we're going to have a death montage with that song in the background." 

 

 

 And on what planet does the side piece get to blame the spouse that got cheated on? 

 

If this were real life, Valerie would have been shoved out of the loft wearing only that bedsheet and her clothes thrown out the door before she got a word in edgewise. I know no one is going to talk to me like that in my house, whether I'm actually living there or not.  If I were Lulu, I would be using Nik's Cassadine resources to fuck Dante and Vals shit up. My inner Helena would be full force, minions and all. Fuck that shit. 

 

Amen, brothers and sisters, Amen! I am now firmly convinced that she wrote that ambiguous "last night was wonderful" note in hopes that Lulu would find it. 

[WendyCR72]

Liz/Patrick need to be punched in the face.repeatedly

 

I'll grant you Liz needs a punch. Patrick is acting like a moron, but Sam's ass is still living in his home while chasing that "love of her life", yes? Then as far as I am concerned, Sam is giving him the tacit encouragement to butt in since she seems to be fine having him in reserve.

 

Move to the damned Metro Court, and then yeah, Patrick can shut his dumb mouth up.

[AgentRXS]

 

h. Patrick is acting like a moron, but Sam's ass is still living in his home while chasing that "love of her life", yes? Then as far as I am concerned, Sam is giving him the tacit encouragement to butt in since she seems to be fine having him in reserve.

i guess I don't really see her "chasing" Jason. I guess i see her just trying to figure out how to have him in her life as her child's father and how to help him remember who he is, for his sake.I don't see Sam pathetically forcing herself on Jason like Liz is. Only the kiss, which any person would be curious about regardless if they actually intended to get back together or not.  And if Patrick is feeling any kind of way about it, he could suggest her moving back to the penthouse until she figures out what she wants. But Patrick and Liz seems to act like Jason and Sam will forget they exist if they aren't around them every single second. Its really pathetic soap writing.

Edited December 1, 2015 by AgentRXS

[WendyCR72]

i guess I don't really see her "chasing" Jason. I guess i see her just trying to figure out how to have him in her life as her child's father and how to help him remember who he is, for his sake.I don't see Sam pathetically forcing herself on Jason like Liz is. Only the kiss, which any person would be curious about regardless if they actually intended to get back together or not.  And if Patrick is feeling any kind of way about it, he could suggest her moving back to the penthouse until she figures out what she wants. But Patrick and Liz seems to act like Jason and Sam will forget they exist if they aren't around them every single second. Its really pathetic soap writing.

 

Well, we do agree the writing is pathetic.  :-)

[Chairperson Meow]

https://youtu.be/rFLuAaxDf5I

At 5:13, there's the thing that's missing from this Jason story.

[mybabyaidan]

I really don't think Sam is intentionally leading Patrick on.   Do I think she is fooling herself staying with him?  Hell yes.  The second she heard the words "I am Jason Morgan" there was really no doubt where her heart would be.  But I think she is desperately trying to move on, since it's pretty clear he doesn't remember her or their life.  I think her telling him today she wouldn't fight a divorce was sincere....She really has no idea what this secret even is... or that it will break Liz and Jason up.  I think her hackles are definitely up, and since it involves Liz, it's something she needs to pursue.

 

Little Jake seemed more animated today than he has in a long time.  This poor kid needs proper therapy, not adults in his life tricking him into things. 

 

Liz....just....my god.  Of course SHE is the one that brought up divorce to Jason.  He didn't look too thrilled at the thought.  I think mostly because he doesn't want to hurt Sam, but it's interesting that he never got to properly answer how he felt about it.  With Liz, or with Sam.  They both kind of took the lead and he just let them.  I really hope dude gets his own personality soon.   I guess that's too much to ask.

 

ETA:  I have no horse in the Dante/Lulu/Valerie mess.....but STFU Dante and STFU Valerie.  That was just.....gross.  I didn't hate or like Val, ut today pushed me toward hate.

Edited December 1, 2015 by mybabyaidan

[Bringonthedrama]

The writing made both Sam and Liz look bad today. Liz: for pressing Jason to divorce Sam, rolling her eyes when Sam called, volunteering to drop Jake off at the Drake house instead of Jason doing it, and then her triumphant announcement to Patrick that Jason is going to divorce Sam. Sam: for telling Patrick she wants to sleep with him tonight, then closing the door, plotting to get Jake over to the house, and then trying to manipulate him into spilling the secret. I rolled my eyes at her telling Jason Danny's "climbing the walls" when he was just coloring at the table, not making a sound. She looked so sad when Jason left. Liz and Patrick are both utter idiots for thinking they've 'won' in this mess. 

The writing made both Sam and Liz look bad today. Liz: for pressing Jason to divorce Sam, rolling her eyes when Sam called, volunteering to drop Jake off at the Drake house instead of Jason doing it, and then her triumphant announcement to Patrick that Jason is going to divorce Sam. Sam: for telling Patrick she wants to sleep with him tonight, then closing the door, plotting to get Jake over to the house, and then trying to manipulate him into spilling the secret. I rolled my eyes at her telling Jason Danny's "climbing the walls" when he was just coloring at the table, not making a sound. She looked so sad when Jason left. Liz and Patrick are both utter idiots for thinking they've 'won' in this mess. 

 

 

[Tiger]

Who are Curtis and Hayden?

I can't Lulu Spencer hasn't punched Val in the face or kicked Dante in the balls yet.  They are AWFUL

I want Olivia to throw a pot full of scalding hot marinara sauce on his dick.

All I caught was the last few seconds...

 

Shut up, Carly.

Didn't even watch, but this? A thousand times this!

 

If this were real life, Valerie would have been shoved out of the loft wearing only that bedsheet and her clothes thrown out the door before she got a word in edgewise. I know no one is going to talk to me like that in my house, whether I'm actually living there or not.  If I were Lulu, I would be using Nik's Cassadine resources to fuck Dante and Vals shit up. My inner Helena would be full force, minions and all. Fuck that shit.

First off, PREACH!

Second, this would the perfect time to do a real OUaT-esque 'a hero embraces the dsrkness' story instead of that ridiculousness with Dark Nik. Lulu, wearing black fur, walking around the docks with Helena plotting the destruction of Dante & Valerie would be fun stuff.