Gender On Television: It's Like Feminism Never Happened

[Spartan Girl]

Yeah the show let Robin down big time. It would have better a much ending if she stayed happily single -- or even stayed with Barney. Because for all of Barney's many, many, many faults, he always understood Robin and admired her independence and never cared that much about having kids, unlike Ted, who was dead-set on shoehorning Robin into his Norman Rockwell fantasy family.

[Hiyo]

Plus, Ted was a pretentious annoying douchebag.

I mean, when someone like Barney is the more appealing choice, something is wrong.

[supposebly]

I liked neither and had mixed feelings about the other characters except Robin. I'm still not cure why I kept watching.

[Wiendish Fitch]

 

Oops, wrong thread

Edited April 25, 2020 by Wiendish Fitch

[Spartan Girl]

2 hours ago, Hiyo said:

Plus, Ted was a pretentious annoying douchebag.

I mean, when someone like Barney is the more appealing choice, something is wrong.

Since Ted is known to be an unreliable narrator, it wouldn't surprise me if, in true Nice Guy fashion, he exaggerated Barney's womanizing in order to make himself to be the better choice.

[Blergh]

3 hours ago, Spartan Girl said:

Since Ted is known to be an unreliable narrator, it wouldn't surprise me if, in true Nice Guy fashion, he exaggerated Barney's womanizing in order to make himself to be the better choice.

Ah, but even WITH his self-serving spin to his kids, the kids STILL wound up believing him to consider their late mother  to have been  barely a footnote to his life which was supposedly a paean to this other woman! But take heart!

The audience can imagine them afterwards seeking out the cheapest nursing home they can find then dumping him  there for the rest of his existence    to never visit him. And,from that point onward, he will only have other neglectful old parents constantly throwing pity parties (like the Friends pack) s to commiserate with while vainly trying to convince everyone else what wonderful parents and dedicated spouses they weren't! 

[aradia22]

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Why is that hothead Eliot Stabler getting his own show and not the awesome Alexandra Eames? Eliot's temper should have gotten him fired decades ago. I'll never understand why it's ok for men to lose their tempers and not women. 

I'm torn. On the one hand, yeah Stabler was never a great character and his rage and unprofessionalism was such an issue the show had to call him on it. There's good cop, bad cop and there's throwing suspects against the wall. On the other hand, I like Meloni and I don't think his other projects have been terribly successful. Respect for taking the role in Pose but I'd be shocked if anyone watched Happy and it's part of everyone's Netflix subscription. I'm not going to watch the show regardless. SVU was always the worst of the franchise and it's only become more of a mess.

I found Eames boring. That show was all about Vincent D'Onofrio. I know she had her moments but come on. She was a sidekick. Has Milena Govich played the only other non-SVU female detective? Her character was fine but not terribly notable. Now, if you wanted a female-led Law and Order spin off I would watch, make it about Angie Harmon and Annie Parisse. I would watch that ALL DAY.

[Dancingjaneway]

For me Brooklyn 99 has done the best job of tackling women's issues, f/m platonic friendships & making their female characters more than just one dimensional. Even when they had a female character that was the main characters rival she wasn't incompetent & she wasn't teased about her looks. I also really appreciate that Rosa(who is bi) has dated both men & women. They haven't made her sexuality for the male gaze. Another show that I find refreshing is the Golden Girls. I mean this was a show with an all female cast, the women talked freely about women's issues & they lived together without clawing each others eyes out. Normally the trope of "women are just catty & can't be good friends" ends up coming up but Golden Girls managed to dodge that. Sure they had disagreements but so do men with other men and men with women. It was also nice to see women who weren't  considered "young" being given boyfriends, sex lives & jobs. 

[Mabinogia]

15 hours ago, Dancingjaneway said:

Sure they had disagreements but so do men with other men and men with women. It was also nice to see women who weren't  considered "young" being given boyfriends, sex lives & jobs. 

I like that, despite their disagreements, and even if they fought over a guy, in the end, they always made up because yeah, people disagree, people fight, and friends sometimes do fall for the same person, but they work it out and the GGs always sat down with their cheesecake and showed that in the end, their friendship/relationship was the most important. 

I also agree about B99. Amy is one of my favorite characters on TV. I love Rosa too, but she can run a bit standard tough female cop whereas Amy is a hot nerd who is strong/tough, super competitive and cute as a button. lol 

[callie lee 29]

17 hours ago, aradia22 said:

I'm torn. On the one hand, yeah Stabler was never a great character and his rage and unprofessionalism was such an issue the show had to call him on it. There's good cop, bad cop and there's throwing suspects against the wall. On the other hand, I like Meloni and I don't think his other projects have been terribly successful. Respect for taking the role in Pose but I'd be shocked if anyone watched Happy and it's part of everyone's Netflix subscription. I'm not going to watch the show regardless. SVU was always the worst of the franchise and it's only become more of a mess.

I found Eames boring. That show was all about Vincent D'Onofrio. I know she had her moments but come on. She was a sidekick. Has Milena Govich played the only other non-SVU female detective? Her character was fine but not terribly notable. Now, if you wanted a female-led Law and Order spin off I would watch, make it about Angie Harmon and Annie Parisse. I would watch that ALL DAY.

I think pretty much every detective on SVU should probably be fired (with he exception of Munch). Granted I haven't watched in a while due to the obsession with Olivia Benson so there may be some new ones who are decent. 

 

D'Onofrio is the entire reason I never watch Criminal Intent. Once they got Noth on there I started watching.

[proserpina65]

2 hours ago, callie lee 29 said:

D'Onofrio is the entire reason I never watch Criminal Intent. Once they got Noth on there I started watching.

I watched CI despite Goran because I really liked Eames.  I watched it because of Noth when he joined the cast.

19 hours ago, aradia22 said:

Has Milena Govich played the only other non-SVU female detective?

No, Mike Logan had three different female partners on Criminal Intent (Annabella Sciorra, Alicia Witt & Julianne Nicholson) and Zack Nichols (Jeff Goldblum) had two (Nicholson and Saffron Burrows).

[aradia22]

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I think pretty much every detective on SVU should probably be fired (with he exception of Munch). Granted I haven't watched in a while due to the obsession with Olivia Benson so there may be some new ones who are decent. 

Any time I get a glimpse of that show (my parents watch) it's so cringe. The newer blonde woman (Kelli Giddish) is awful. I know the actress from when she played a character who came back from the dead with plastic surgery on All My Children... but then it turned out she was just a con-woman pretending to be that character. Her acting has not gotten better all these years later and from what I can tell, she's Olivia-lite but messier. I also hate the swoopy haired male detective (Peter Scavino). I can't tell if he's doing an accent but it's way over the top and he feels like a less-punchable version of Dean Winters. I don't know. Everyone on that show now is unlikable. 

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No, Mike Logan had three different female partners on Criminal Intent (Annabella Sciorra, Alicia Witt & Julianne Nicholson) and Zack Nichols (Jeff Goldblum) had two (Nicholson and Saffron Burrows).

I just did a quick google when I wrote my last comment and didn't turn up anything. Maybe google thought I was only interested in the main franchise. Anyway, I don't really remember Sciorra but I do remember the others. They didn't make a huge impact but I never love when the show gets too into the detectives home lives (which is part of why I hate SVU). I'd be up for Witt or Nicholson on a spin off though. 

Better spin off characters? Alexandra Cabot, Casey Novak, Dr. George Huang (BD Wong). This conversation is making me realize how much I liked most of the female DAs. 

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D'Onofrio is the entire reason I never watch Criminal Intent. Once they got Noth on there I started watching.

Different strokes. To me, Goren fit that brilliant detective thing that was the backbone of the USA network for years. Monk, Psych, House, Burn Notice, etc. I roll my eyes at all the recent attempts. I've had enough of that trope of genius men who need to do things their way and not listen to the people around them (especially not women who care about silly things like rules and procedure and human empathy and consequences). But I did enjoy all those early shows.

[callie lee 29]

I  always kinda felt bad for Milena Govich. She just seemed ill suited for the show, both in capability and maybe expectations. They really didn’t help her with the writing or character development. 

[kathyk2]

On 4/30/2020 at 12:00 AM, aradia22 said:

I'm torn. On the one hand, yeah Stabler was never a great character and his rage and unprofessionalism was such an issue the show had to call him on it. There's good cop, bad cop and there's throwing suspects against the wall. On the other hand, I like Meloni and I don't think his other projects have been terribly successful. Respect for taking the role in Pose but I'd be shocked if anyone watched Happy and it's part of everyone's Netflix subscription. I'm not going to watch the show regardless. SVU was always the worst of the franchise and it's only become more of a mess.

I found Eames boring. That show was all about Vincent D'Onofrio. I know she had her moments but come on. She was a sidekick. Has Milena Govich played the only other non-SVU female detective? Her character was fine but not terribly notable. Now, if you wanted a female-led Law and Order spin off I would watch, make it about Angie Harmon and Annie Parisse. I would watch that ALL DAY.

Eames wasn't boring she was professional. If she was the one behaving like Goren viewers would have wanted her fired. The Logan CI episodes reminded me of old Law and Order where the focus was on the case not personal drama.

[aradia22]

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Eames wasn't boring she was professional. 

She was boring by the standards of Criminal Intent. I didn't care too much about Goren's personal life either but it was definitely a show like Cold Case or Bones that was all about the dramatics of interrogations and getting suspects to confess. Courtney B. Vance was great but CI definitely underplayed the "Law" part of the title.

[GHScorpiosRule]

9 hours ago, aradia22 said:

Courtney B. Vance was great but CI definitely underplayed the "Law" part of the title.

I think you mean the "Order" part of the title. The Law portion was always the detectives side. Well, according to the opening credits, anyway.

It took me awhile to get into Criminal Intent. Original Recipe/Mothership of Law & Order, was/is/will always be my jam. Especially the first five seasons. That's right, the Michael Logan years, and ESPECIALLY the Ben Stone Years.

And I know that's an unpopular opinion, because I thought the show was best the first three/four seasons.

[Mabinogia]

19 hours ago, aradia22 said:

Different strokes. To me, Goren fit that brilliant detective thing that was the backbone of the USA network for years. Monk, Psych, House, Burn Notice, etc. I roll my eyes at all the recent attempts.

Different strokes indeed because D'Onofrio always sent my eyes a'rollin. Dude was trying SOOOOOO hard to be "quirky" I couldn't do anything but laugh at him. I always saw the acting as opposed to being able to enjoy the character. 

I did love all the CI female detectives now I see the list. Eames was my least favorite, but that is probably because she was with Goren who irritates me more than sand in my bikini bottom. I didn't dislike Eames, I just didn't see her as anything special enough to suffer through Goren for. lol

[andromeda331]

5 hours ago, Mabinogia said:

Different strokes indeed because D'Onofrio always sent my eyes a'rollin. Dude was trying SOOOOOO hard to be "quirky" I couldn't do anything but laugh at him. I always saw the acting as opposed to being able to enjoy the character. 

I did love all the CI female detectives now I see the list. Eames was my least favorite, but that is probably because she was with Goren who irritates me more than sand in my bikini bottom. I didn't dislike Eames, I just didn't see her as anything special enough to suffer through Goren for. lol

Same here. I tried to get into CI and I hated Goren so much I finally stopped watching until Noth's character joined with his partner. I liked both so much better. I probably would have liked Eames better if it she wasn't paired with Goren.

[possibilities]

Parks and Rec had female-female friendships and female-male friendships. It was one of the strongest aspects of the show.

I never knew that females were supposedly clawing each other or backstabbing until I discovered it was a TV trope. It's really weird to me. But then again I never dealt with a love triangle in real life, either. Or married couples who seem to hate each other and have nothing in common. It makes me wonder what kind of people are making TV shows and also what kind of world we live in where people apparently want to watch that stuff. I don't even think I've been surrounded by particularly extra nice or extra happy people. But the kind of conflicts and misery I see is not the kind I see on TV.

[Annber03]

36 minutes ago, possibilities said:

I never knew that females were supposedly clawing each other or backstabbing until I discovered it was a TV trope. It's really weird to me. But then again I never dealt with a love triangle in real life, either. Or married couples who seem to hate each other and have nothing in common.

Same here. Especially the love triangle stuff-I've never fought with my sister or my friends over a guy. Not once. Granted, part of that is likely due to the fact that my taste in men is very different from that of my friends and my sister (and I haven't dated nearly as much as some of them have), but still... That's not to say I never had disagreements or fights with my friends or my sister, I have, but we always worked things out in the end. 

For the most part, I think a lot of the shows I watch have really good female friendships, both on screen and off. There might be the occasional storyline where a couple women don't get along for some reason or another, but those storylines are brief and don't last long. And the men on the shows I watch have their own competitive moments and fights as well, so it's not like it's something that only the female characters go through. 

[aradia22]

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I never knew that females were supposedly clawing each other or backstabbing until I discovered it was a TV trope. 

Aside from my contentious relationship with my mom, my genuine fights with other women probably number in the single digits. People talk about how jealousy and competition is natural among women and I'm just like... what kind of messed up community did you grow up in? Sure, we all have internalized misogyny but, for the most part, I've always gotten along with other women. Unlike TV/movies (which need to rationalize the terrible ratios of male and female characters) I've always had more female friends than male friends and the male friends I do have tend to be gay/queer.

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 Or married couples who seem to hate each other and have nothing in common. It makes me wonder what kind of people are making TV shows and also what kind of world we live in where people apparently want to watch that stuff. I don't even think I've been surrounded by particularly extra nice or extra happy people. But the kind of conflicts and misery I see is not the kind I see on TV.

I suspect just from reading a lot of memoirs and pop culture stuff that the people working behind the scenes are not as "normal" as they'd like you to believe. Certainly, there's a wide spectrum of experience and it's valid to represent those things on screen. But if you've been divorced multiple times or you're a child of divorce, you're going to write that sitcom about a nuclear family or that lighthearted romantic comedy differently. I don't think we interrogate our preconceptions enough or acknowledge how our generalizations about the world and universal experiences are actually highly influenced by our biases and specific lived experiences. 

[Hiyo]

American TV and movies have taught me that it's ok for teenage boys to take much older women as dates to their senior prom. Strangely enough, you don't see the reverse happening much, no?

[Luckylyn]

10 hours ago, Hiyo said:

American TV and movies have taught me that it's ok for teenage boys to take much older women as dates to their senior prom. Strangely enough, you don't see the reverse happening much, no?

I remember in my high school one of my classmates brought her 30 year old boyfriend to prom. The teachers looked uncomfortable but couldn’t say anything because she was 18.  She was an old 18 whose parents treated her like a fellow adult instead of a child so I suppose that made her more mature.  It’s been 20 years and they are still together and have a young son.  I always assumed the age difference would lead to problems but it worked out for them.  

[proserpina65]

On ‎05‎/‎01‎/‎2020 at 10:45 AM, GHScorpiosRule said:

It took me awhile to get into Criminal Intent. Original Recipe/Mothership of Law & Order, was/is/will always be my jam. Especially the first five seasons. That's right, the Michael Logan years, and ESPECIALLY the Ben Stone Years.

And I know that's an unpopular opinion, because I thought the show was best the first three/four seasons.

I agree with you 100%.  The show lost something when Ben Stone left, and once Mike Logan was gone, I didn't watch for years.

[Hiyo]

Funny, for me, my L&O "golden years" would probably be seasons 4 to 10.

[meep.meep]

On 5/2/2020 at 11:23 PM, Hiyo said:

American TV and movies have taught me that it's ok for teenage boys to take much older women as dates to their senior prom. Strangely enough, you don't see the reverse happening much, no?

On Derry Girls, one of the girls takes her grandfather to the prom.  

[Hiyo]

Not quite what I was referring to...

[Zella]

As cringy as it was, I loved the It's Always Sunny episode where the Gang (male and female), all easily in their 30s, go to the prom as teenagers' dates but get called out for the sheer creepiness of it at the end. 

Edited May 5, 2020 by Zella

[Spartan Girl]

I haven't watched Xena: Warrior Princess since I was a kid, but SyFy has been marathoning it every Thursday.

Writers, take note. THIS was fucking feminism!

Edited May 8, 2020 by Spartan Girl

[Spartan Girl]

Perfection.

And now, The Take, it is time to destroy Xander Harris. I know you can do it.

[Wiendish Fitch]

1 hour ago, Spartan Girl said:

Perfection.

And now, The Take, it is time to destroy Xander Harris. I know you can do it.

Yes, yes, YES! Take down that loathsome, sniveling, hypocritical Nice Guy once and for all!

[Hiyo]

I think this posted comment from the video sums it up:

"Ted is stuck in his mindset and doesnt grow in this series. He kinda reminds me of carrie bradshaw. Narcissistic, self-centered, delusional. But he maintains this delusion of seeing himself as virtuous. He’s the worst character in the show."

[Spartan Girl]

My God, Ted IS Carrie Bradshaw! 

The one thing the video should have mentioned was when Lily got pissed about Ted randomly inviting his latest girlfriend to her birthday party which led to Marshall calling out Ted on how he and the gang were constantly cleaning up after Ted's breakups...and yet at the end of that episode instead of forcing Ted to take a good long look at his own crap, he was let off the hook for the whole thing. AGAIN.

Marshall wasn't completely wholesome though. By the end of the show, he was Ted's biggest enabler, goading him after Robin all so that he could win his stupid bet with Lily. And let's not forget how he took that judge position without discussing it with Lily despite their agreed upon trip to Italy for her art. On the other hand, he did realize what a shitty thing that was to do and even when they found out she was pregnant he postponed the job for Italy. At least how I think it went down.

[Hiyo]

The thing about Marshall, and the others - Lily, Barney, and Robin - was their capacity to admit they were wrong, and that would occasionally try to evolve or change their ways. We would see spurts of growth and maturity with them, even if was fleeting. We rarely, if ever, saw that with Ted.

[Spartan Girl]

Re the Stella situation, Stella was just as guilty as Ted about rushing things, because she didn't want to admit she still had feelings for Tony, so even though Ted shouldn't have invited him and Robin to the wedding, Stella chose to dump Ted at the altar for Tony. And the only reason Ted bad mouthed Stella to Tony was because Tony shoehorned himself advancing Ted's career to appease his own guilt.

And making a movie out of their love triangle was a shitty thing to do, although now that I think about it...if Ted exaggerated Barney's womanizing, maybe his portrayal in The Wedding Bride was ALSO an exaggeration just to make himself to be more of a victim?

I wish The Take had mentioned Zoey as another example of Ted willing to inconvenience his friends for his love life. He almost got Barney FIRED because he wanted to appease Zoey by saving the Arcadian. Even though he didn't wind up doing it, the fact that he had to actually think about it is just awful.

Huh. Now that I think about Ted has a lot in common with Rebecca on Crazy Ex Girlfriend. Except Rebecca got called out on her projecting obsessive behavior and realized that her romantic fantasies weren't going to make her happy and grew from it. Ted did not.

And there we have it again, people: the great double standard.

[angora]

11 hours ago, Spartan Girl said:

Huh. Now that I think about Ted has a lot in common with Rebecca on Crazy Ex Girlfriend. Except Rebecca got called out on her projecting obsessive behavior and realized that her romantic fantasies weren't going to make her happy and grew from it. Ted did not.

And there we have it again, people: the great double standard.

What's ironic about that double standard is that Crazy Ex-Girlfriend is a much better show BECAUSE it recognizes the damage that Rebecca's romantic delusions cause herself and others, whereas a big part of How I Met Your Mother's flagging quality over the years is the way it continually lets Ted off the hook.

[Danny Franks]

I guess this belongs in here, as I can't find a thread for the show itself - I don't know if anyone has watched Condor, but it has a really problematic way of handling the female characters.

It's a show about a CIA analyst who accidentally stumbles onto a conspiracy that has spooks within the agency trying to kill him. Along the course of it, both his prospective girlfriend and his past significant love interest are killed to give him lots of angsty manpain, and they're both killed by a stone cold, psycho-bitch assassin who already slept with the hero and seems to have some weird, obsessive attitude to him even while trying to kill him.

The stone cold, psycho-bitch assassin, of course, survives to threaten our hero another day (literally, she calls him to tell him he's "the one who got away" in the season finale, again muddling murder and romance in a really creepy way). Unsurprisingly, he now has a new, disposable love interest who will probably also be killed to give him even more angsty manpain.

[possibilities]

Yikes! That's practically a "reverse bechdel" situation.

[magicdog]

On 7/17/2020 at 10:08 AM, Danny Franks said:

I don't know if anyone has watched Condor, but it has a really problematic way of handling the female characters.

It's a show about a CIA analyst who accidentally stumbles onto a conspiracy that has spooks within the agency trying to kill him. Along the course of it, both his prospective girlfriend and his past significant love interest are killed to give him lots of angsty manpain, and they're both killed by a stone cold, psycho-bitch assassin who already slept with the hero and seems to have some weird, obsessive attitude to him even while trying to kill him.

The stone cold, psycho-bitch assassin, of course, survives to threaten our hero another day (literally, she calls him to tell him he's "the one who got away" in the season finale, again muddling murder and romance in a really creepy way). Unsurprisingly, he now has a new, disposable love interest who will probably also be killed to give him even more angsty manpain.

I didn't know they made a series out of this!  It was a classic film made in 1975 called, "Three Days of the Condor"starring Robert Redford.  It's a nail biter and awesome film.  However, the assassin wasn't female, and those who do end up dead are just to force Redford's character (code name: "Condor") into a corner.  Gender never entered my mind.

To be fair, I didn't read the novel it was based on, but the material seemed better suited to a film than a TV series.

[Trini]

Women Rocking Hollywood 2020: Supporting Female Helmed Film and TV | Comic-Con@Home 2020

Quote

What is so great about working as executive producer and director on a Frank Miller/Tom Wheeler project? What is it like to direct Charlize Theron and Kiki Layne in complicated fight scenes? How does working with women above and below the line make a film with Kelvin Harrison Jr, Tracee Ellis Ross, and Dakota Johnson more nuanced and believable? What does a producing director on Queen Sugar do? Find out all this and more, including why supporting women in film is so vital to equality for all, and how fans can make a difference, on this exciting female filmmaker-focused panel.

Watch Nisha Ganatra (director: Late Night, The High Note), Lauren Wolkstein (director: Cloak & Dagger, supervising director: Queen Sugar), Gina Prince-Bythewood (writer/director: Love and Basketball, director: The Old Guard), Zetna Fuentes (director: Jessica Jones, executive producer/director: Cursed) and Alison Emilio (director of ReFrame) as they share their experiences and insights. Moderated by Leslie Combemale (creator: Women Rocking Hollywood, freelance writer: AWFJ.org).

 

 

[Grrarrggh]

Am I the only one who felt like the guys on The Big Bang Theory were incredibly homophobic and sexist? 

[Luckylyn]

3 hours ago, Grrarrggh said:

Am I the only one who felt like the guys on The Big Bang Theory were incredibly homophobic and sexist? 

Pop Culture Detective did videos on that topic.

 

 

 

[Bastet]

One of my close friends loves that show, but I've always had a strong sense just from seeing commercials for it that I'd find it sexist.  When that "adorkable misogyny" video was posted a couple of years ago, I watched it and thought, "I knew it!"

[Spartan Girl]

I guess it was too much to hope that The Falcon and the Winter Soldier (and the MCU in general) would give Sharon Carter, a renowned heroine in the Marvel comics, a proper character arc and storyline after she got sidelined in the movies. I’d elaborate but apparently I can’t do spoiler tags on the new layout anymore.

Edited April 23, 2021 by Spartan Girl

[GHScorpiosRule]

26 minutes ago, Spartan Girl said:

I guess it was too much to hope that The Falcon and the Winter Soldier (and the MCU in general) would give Sharon Carter, a renowned heroine in the Marvel comics, a proper character arc and storyline after she got sidelined in the movies. I’d elaborate but apparently I can’t do spoiler tags on the new layout anymore.

You can use the spoiler icon and type in your post in the box. The spoiler icon is next to the quote icon in the editor bar above.

[Spartan Girl]

1 minute ago, GHScorpiosRule said:

You can use the spoiler icon and type in your post in the box. The spoiler icon is next to the quote icon in the editor bar above.

Oh thank you! I’m still getting used to the new stuff.

So back to my original point about Sharon Carter and The Falcon and the Winter Soldier:

Spoiler

Turning Sharon Carter into a villain just to whitewash how Steve and the Avengers just kind of forgot about her and left her to be on the run as an enemy of the state after she helped them out in CW just sticks in my craw. It feels too much like the “yeah, she’s bitter but she’s evil so who cares what she thinks” crap I expect from Joss Whedon. I mean, seriously? The male hero isn’t perfect but we have to tarnish the female lead’s character so his fuckup isn’t so bad?

And no, don’t paint this as a “Steve didn’t owe Sharon anything, she knew what she was getting into, she made her choice” scenario. It doesn’t make it any less wrong. Pre-Endgame Steve would have tried to at least track her down or get Fury involved instead of leaving the niece of “the love of his life” high and dry to fend for herself.

But the writers of TFATWS seriously didn’t have any better ideas for Sharon? It had to be “love interest” or “evil” not a fun squad fighting alongside Sam and Bucky as a trio for more than two scenes in the whole series? Then again, the MCU fridged Gamora and Natasha so maybe it’s my fault for expecting more.

[GHScorpiosRule]

5 minutes ago, Spartan Girl said:

Oh thank you! I’m still getting used to the new stuff.

So back to my original point about Sharon Carter and The Falcon and the Winter Soldier:

  Hide contents

Turning Sharon Carter into a villain just to whitewash how Steve and the Avengers just kind of forgot about her and left her to be on the run as an enemy of the state after she helped them out in CW just sticks in my craw. It feels too much like the “yeah, she’s bitter but she’s evil so who cares what she thinks” crap I expect from Joss Whedon. I mean, seriously? The male hero isn’t perfect but we have to tarnish the female lead’s character so his fuckup isn’t so bad?

And no, don’t paint this as a “Steve didn’t owe Sharon anything, she knew what she was getting into, she made her choice” scenario. It doesn’t make it any less wrong. Pre-Endgame Steve would have tried to at least track her down or get Fury involved instead of leaving the niece of “the love of his life” high and dry to fend for herself.

But the writers of TFATWS seriously didn’t have any better ideas for Sharon? It had to be “love interest” or “evil” not a fun squad fighting alongside Sam and Bucky as a trio for more than two scenes in the whole series? Then again, the MCU fridged Gamora and Natasha so maybe it’s my fault for expecting more.

You're welcome! I don't think I ever used the icons for the quote and spoiler tags! 

While I haven't seen the finale yet, I will say this--no spoiler tags as this came out a month ago in Sharon's first appearance on the show, and it relates to my opinion of Steve, ignoring the last five minutes of Endgame.

Steve wouldn't just not try to find Sharon even if her name was on the snapped wall list; nor would Sam or Bucky. 

I've stated in the movie threads and even this show's thread that I'm not a fan of Sharon Carter--and don't think Emily is a good enough actress to portray this character. But it's all moot. 

That said, I find it so unfuckingbelievable that her character 

Spoiler

is the Power Broker, and that she was able to amass all that wealth either during the five years everyone thought she'd been snapped, or within the few months after returning like Bucky and Sam did.

But my ire is mostly for her trash talking Steve and acting as if he'd forced her to help him, Sam, and Bucky in Winter Soldier and Civil War. It was her choice. She made that decision and she even acknowledged the government would now "go after her" for her helping them.  So she can just STFU right away anytime now.

[WinnieWinkle]

On 8/4/2020 at 3:04 AM, Grrarrggh said:

Am I the only one who felt like the guys on The Big Bang Theory were incredibly homophobic and sexist? 

I really like BBT but it doesn't bear close watching if you don't want to go into a tirade on this!  I actually prefer the Sheldon character's blatant sexism because I know people like him (in terms of the sexist behaviors) so I can accept that they are conveying a real world view that some have, which makes sense.  But it's the other ways the show is sexist that drive me straight up the wall. 

They pay lip service to the idea that women can be as smart as men but constantly torpedo that with having many of the female characters strident shrews (Bernadette and Leonard's mother leading the parade).  The idea being that women who are smart are dominating bitches apparently.

 The worst episode though in this regard, and one that I cannot watch, is when Bernadette is approached to do a sexy women of science magazine article and when Amy raises perfectly valid and legitimate criticisms of this the show ends up twisting things so that it looks like the only real reason Amy is concerned is out of jealousy.  What the ever living hell??

Edited April 23, 2021 by WinnieWinkle

[Spartan Girl]

1 hour ago, GHScorpiosRule said:

But my ire is mostly for her trash talking Steve and acting as if he'd forced her to help him, Sam, and Bucky in Winter Soldier and Civil War. It was her choice. She made that decision and she even acknowledged the government would now "go after her" for her helping them. 

I think she knew all that, and it’s understandable that she still a little bitter that they all got pardoned after Endgame and it wasn’t until Sam and Bucky met up with her in Madripoor that they even remembered she existed or she was on the run. But chalk all that, and 

Spoiler

her becoming Power Broker

to another example for lazy writing for a female  character.

[Danny Franks]

On 4/23/2021 at 2:48 PM, GHScorpiosRule said:

Steve wouldn't just not try to find Sharon even if her name was on the snapped wall list; nor would Sam or Bucky. 

Steve, in particular, would not have been able to live with someone suffering because of a choice they made to help him. That wasn't ever in his nature.

This could all have been averted with a quick bit of foresight when making Civil War (a movie I find disappointing, because I wanted to watch Captain America 3, not an Avengers movie) by having Sharon be one of the people broken out of the Raft by Steve at the end. 

Then they'd have had her set up to be part of Steve's team in Infinity War, and just written that they had a romantic relationship that had developed. Does one more character who gets two lines and a couple of fight scenes make a difference to that movie?

Sure, they'd have had to give him a different ending in Endgame, but that wouldn't have been too difficult. Just have him officially retire without the whole time travel thing - Give Sam the shield, then walk off into the sunset with Sharon, to live a peaceful life.

Edited April 24, 2021 by Danny Franks