After Paradise

[chocolatine]

I noticed that when Caila first came in on BiP, none of the other girls from Ben's season looked happy to see her. Usually there's squealing and hugging, but not with Caila. Seems like the dislike pre-dated BiP.

FWIW, I think it's possible that Caila is a stealth bitch. She's all sweetness and light around the guys, but has no shortage of subtle digs for those who cross her ("Jared loves you like a sister", "*we* are trying to make you comfortable", etc.). Obviously Ashley deserved it, but I can also see how that kind of behavior on Caila's part can come across as two-faced.

[Falafel]

Sean adds nothing to this show, but I have to say, I loved what he said to Jared about Ashley being obsessed with tearing his relationships apart and if it's not Caila, it will be something else. I was so annoyed that the co-host cut in and changed the question to Jared.

Caila: "Friends call and Jared answers." Caila was too nice to say it, but yep, Jared is still talking to Ashley even after the show. Ugh, he sucks and is the worrrrst. He is still stringing Ashley along, still enabling her, still rewarding her crazy behavior, still loving the attention Ashley gives him and still being a spineless wimp. I cannot stand him.

In Jared's words: "We're still really good friends." No, dude, you are not. You cannot be friends with someone who is in love with you and actively tries to sabotage your relationships with other women. You have to judge people by the company they keep and she is crazy. The fact that he keeps her around makes it look like he is just desperate for attention. It's truly pathetic. I also don't think he is attractive enough to have these women going nuts for him, but many of the women on this show don't seem too bright.

I also hate Ashley, but that goes without saying. She is crazy, completely humorless and uninteresting, her voice makes me want to claw my face off and it's a good thing the show is over because if she stuck around any longer I probably would've just stopped watching. She's not entertaining. Hearing her sob uncontrollably as she says "Jared makes everything better!" is not my idea of a good time.

I am Team Caila. Ashley and Jared can go move to Siberia together and stay off my TV.

As for the Nick V. introduction, what was with the suit he was wearing? He looked like a member of the Sharks in West Side Story.

Edited September 1, 2016 by Falafel

[kazza]

40 minutes ago, chocolatine said:

I noticed that when Caila first came in on BiP, none of the other girls from Ben's season looked happy to see her. Usually there's squealing and hugging, but not with Caila. Seems like the dislike pre-dated BiP.

FWIW, I think it's possible that Caila is a stealth bitch. She's all sweetness and light around the guys, but has no shortage of subtle digs for those who cross her ("Jared loves you like a sister", "*we* are trying to make you comfortable", etc.). Obviously Ashley deserved it, but I can also see how that kind of behavior on Caila's part can come across as two-faced.

I finally watched this episode tonight (because apparently 2 nights isn't enough) and got a different impression. There wasn't squealing, but everyone seemed at least neutral. The twins were jealous of her (Emily and Jared were a thing in the way early days) and openly described her as perfect, but not in a mean way. She seemed to have a good rapport with Sarah, and when she commented that it would have been better had Ashley joined earlier than her, Carly even said that it was important for Jared to feel free to pursue someone without Ashley there. When Jen arrived, they also seemed to get along, too. 

But, yeah, I hear you about the stealth thing. It is possible she has us all fooled, which would be kind of a bummer. Still, as others have said, at least she never called someone a whore or a hooker on tv. Ashley I - and Jared for not speaking up - came off much worse in my eyes. 

[Falafel]

I think Caila is viewed as a hot commodity who all the guys would want. I imagine if there wasn't enough enthusiasm from the women about seeing Caila (which I don't agree is the case), that would explain it. If you gave me a list of the women who would be on this show and I had to pick who all the guys would want, I would've picked Caila -- even before the season in speculating about who would be on, I figured Caila would have to go on after the whole Bachelorette switcharoo and she'd be a hot prospect. That's intimidating to the women who had to compete with her.

The fact that Ashley calls Caila a "whore," for doing, um, what everyone came on this show to do is completely disgusting. And she will call Caila a whore for dating Jared, who really wants to date Caila, and yet Jared, the man breaking her own heart, is... a saint or something? That is a pretty fucked perspective on the situation. Ashley is not a reasonable person. She is petty and destructive and maybe Caila smiles a lot (the horror!), but she is a rational human being who behaved in the most reasonable way, which is far more than we can say about Ashley.

I also think calling a woman a "stealth bitch" based on, like, no evidence (plus the fact that she is a woman) is kind of shitty too -- sort of like Ashley calling her a whore for no good reason (plus the fact that she is a woman) -- but... whatever.

Edited September 1, 2016 by Falafel

[chocolatine]

4 minutes ago, Falafel said:

I also think calling a woman a "stealth bitch" based on, like, no evidence (plus the fact that she is a woman) is kind of shitty too -- sort of like Ashley calling her a whore for no good reason -- but... whatever.

I did give a reason why I thought she might be. YMMV. And I've had plenty of unflattering words for several men on this show, so I'm not singling out Caila because she's a woman.

Edited September 1, 2016 by chocolatine

[MasalaCurry]

Just watched After Paradise. Jared was awful, just awful. Ashley didn't regret anything and didn't even want to apologize to Caila, she has such an entitlement like it is Caila's fault for not "listening" to Ashley and leaving Jared alone. So what if Caila said Jared is not her type? She can go after whomever she wants, she can change her mind, she is allowed to change her mind! It's not like she and Ashley are best friends who hang out a lot. Ashley was so awful, I am glad Sean called her out and "forced" her to apologize, but even her fake apology was just fake. As for whether Caila was as into Jared as he was into her, how can Ashley protect him? That is something he has to explore for himself and see if it is true, and whether Caila's feelings for him can grow. It is not a crime for one's feelings to be stronger than the other's. Ashley and Jared make it seem like Caila was committing a crime by not reciprocating Jared's feelings in the exact same magnitude. Ugh!

I absolutely HATED how Jared threw Caila under the bus while defending Ashley, saying "a few people came to me about Caila's feelings not being as strong and it wasn't just Ashley". The way he was defending Ashley was just too much. And throwing Caila under the bus, ugh. Caila looked so hurt and upset, and she was as always trying to be classy about it. Jared and Ashley deserve each other. After they left, miraculously Ashley got over it and started going after Wells. It just didn't make sense. And Ashley called the Russian girl a hooker, ugh. I really hate the words hooker and whore, it just shows more about Ashley than the women she is speaking against. I hope it comes back to her, but so far I just see Ashley encouraged in her behavior and Jared the wimp going along with it and actually doing trips with her. Just too much!

Edited September 1, 2016 by MasalaCurry

[Padma]

I'm sure those "few people" Jared claimed also talked to him about Caila not being as into the relationship as he was (horrors!!!  the nerve!!!) IF they existed at all, were probably just repeating what ASHLEY had told them.

We saw how mean she was and that she would stop at nothing in her war to separate Caila and Jared. I'm sure bad-mouthing Caila to others whenever she could was another big part of that "strategy".

That said, I wish Michelle had asked more about their vacation in St. Lucia. I had a feeling they might have tried to take it farther and Ashley decided it was a perfect Disney relationship after all.  I really wanted Sean or Michelle to follow up when she said, very convincingly I thought, "Well, one good thing about Paradise (or maybe the vacation) was that I got over Jared." 

Even so, Sean had to push her to apologize to Caila--and it was like pulling teeth for her to say it--not gracious in any way whatsoever. She was lucky that Caila seemed to be kind and well mannered enough to let her have her way with it all. I think the truth is a little different from what we saw--but, whatever it is, Caila can do much better than Jared. 

I wonder what past b-ettes they're going to bring on Nick's season?  You know there'll be some who ask to go on because they like him--and TPTB know it will bring some drama.

[GoldLeaf]

6 hours ago, ribboninthesky1 said:

Yeah, Jared was all over Caila - he has no problem being sexually intimate with a woman who reciprocates.  If he wanted to be with Ashley, he would be. 

Lissen, I need you to get on board the Cevan love train.  It's so genuine! Never mind she trashed the man on camera! Never mind that her body language doesn't line up with what she says! Choo-choo, okay?  I wonder what Evan thinks after watching the first couple of episodes. 

I disagree. He had the physical with Caila but he is mentally drawn to Ashley because they have so much in common and are best friends. Personally, I don't think you can be as close as they are (apparently texting almost everyday, hanging out often) etc and not have some desire. The only thing stopping him is that he really doesn't want to lose her. He said on after paradise that he was the one who called Ashley back after their separation. Their bond goes beyond what we are seeing on the show. Considering how Ashley is I think he would not risk it for the physical, he would need to marry her and I think that's why he's holding back.

Why go to St. Lucia with Ashley? Because Jared likes to spend time with her! You guys can say he doesn't find her physically attractive but he really goes out of his way to be around her. This didn't surprise me though, they have been hanging out like this all year. On Ashley's snap chat, they would be on a road trip with her, at her house, partying with him with other alumni etc.

Regarding Caila I don't think she is a stealth bitch but I don't think she is the victim either. Watch the episode, Lace says she can't stand Caila. I don't think it was her smiling. Ashley's Fab Fit commentary on snap chat revealed Caila told Amanda she didn't mind getting engaged to Jared and then breaking it off 3 months later. That's why the cast were not too happy with her. That was probably why Caila didn't bother to say goodbye to everyone. Of course since its from Ashley you guys won't believe it. 

Edited September 1, 2016 by GoldLeaf
Typo

[Seawolff]

1 hour ago, GoldLeaf said:

I disagree. He had the physical with Caila but he is mentally drawn to Ashley because they have so much in common and are best friends. Personally, I don't think you can be as close as they are (apparently texting almost everyday, hanging out often) etc and not have some desire. The only thing stopping him is that he really doesn't want to lose her. He said on after paradise that he was the one who called Ashley back after their separation. Their bond goes beyond what we are seeing on the show. Considering how Ashley is I think he would not risk it for the physical, he would need to marry her and I think that's why he's holding back.

Why go to St. Lucia with Ashley? Because Jared likes to spend time with her! You guys can say he doesn't find her physically attractive but he really goes out of his way to be around her. This didn't surprise me though, they have been hanging out like this all year. On Ashley's snap chat, they would be on a road trip with her, at her house, partying with him with other alumni etc.

Regarding Caila I don't think she is a stealth bitch but I don't think she is the victim either. Watch the episode, Lace says she can't stand Caila. I don't think it was her smiling. Ashley's Fab Fit commentary on snap chat revealed Caila told Amanda she didn't mind getting engaged to Jared and then breaking it off 3 months later. That's why the cast were not too happy with her. That was probably why Caila didn't bother to say goodbye to everyone. Of course since its from Ashley you guys won't believe it. 

Agreed, Jared and Ashley are friends and like to spend time together. They keep telling us that. I have no problem believing it. How that works out for the two of them is to be seen. A whole lot of vicious, jealous dishonesty has been revealed in Ashley. Jared is also revealing himself to be an ass. First, he led Caila to believe he saw a future with her. He even left the show with her. Ok then It sounds like he didn't give the relationship much of a chance if he was constantly allowing himself to be distracted by others. That's still all fine and good but what makes him an ass is that he has in no way been empathetic to Caila's position in this situation. He behaves just as badly as Ashley when he decides to defend Ashley by confirming the rumor, by saying that Ashley was just the only one shown to be warning him. (Again, who cares?! Ashley behaved badly about it and you will never know if it could have been something) It is insanity for Caila I imagine since she did in fact break it off.

Ashley is correct that she will go through more to keep Jarod than anyone else would...but that does not equal that she loves him more nor does it equate to her being better suited to him than anyone else.  Haha the phrase "no one loves you like I do" can take on horror film proportions.

The pettiness of the drama over who loves who more is only underscored if it is based on Caila saying to Amanda that she didn't mind getting engaged to Jared and then breaking it off 3 months later. If that is the big unspeakable crime that made Ashley into a saint then Caila really is better off washing those people right out of her fabulous hair. I mean, come on. I would think everyone, everyone, who goes on this show understands that they must be both willing to give an engagement a shot as well as being prepared that the engagement could fail once they are back to reality.  Such a comment, especially in this environment should be considered a mark of maturity. The engagement event for these couples marks the beginning of the period of time in which they get to know whether they are compatible in the real world. seriously, it's a conversation about whether you could handle getting engaged so soon, and whether you would just keep on going into a marriage no matter what or hope you could keep your eyes open enough to recognize whether it was working or not.

Edited September 1, 2016 by Seawolff

[bblancobrnx]

Yes it's me....the person who a mere two pages ago was saying how it wouldn't matter who they picked because I don't watch the Bachelor or The Bachelorette...well, they got me. Seeing as it is someone I have been enjoying so far on Paradise, I am going to give Nick's season a chance. I am gonna hope he keeps the ridiculous cheese to a minimum and has some quality over 30 women there to choose from. If it is a bunch of early 20's girls, I will pass. I actually have some hope for once, though, as I feel like I know something about this bachelor before the show starts so I am even slightly invested in it already. 

[waving feather]

To me, I don't give a crap if Jared and Ashley are perfect for each other. They are still trolls who I hope to never see on these shows again. The fact that Ashley called Caila all those nasty names on national TV and don't even feel a bit ashamed about it tells me all about her. And this is coming from someone who was kind of sympathetic about her in her previous appearances on this franchise. She has shown herself to be a nasty human being and Jared deserves her.

Edited September 1, 2016 by waving feather

[thehepburn]

I saw assley's snapchat tell-all. I waited until someone else uploaded it bc i refused to give her traffic. So a stupid game of telephone has resulted in them all bullying Caila? What a bunch of assholes.  I found this on reddit. It sounds way more truthful that Assley's BS.

 

https://www.reddit.com/r/thebachelor/comments/509o1q/does_anyone_know_who_lace_was_referring_to_when/d737q6e

Edited September 1, 2016 by OnceSane

[Jillibean]

Quote

There is nothing sinister that happened with Caila.  Ashley was referring to a conversation with Caila before they went on BiP.  Ashley asked her not to date Jared on the show.  Caila replied,  I won't, he is not my type.  Not wise of Caila to have that response. She strikes me as someone who would just be nice in the moment and tell someone what they wanted to hear.   

Ashley did a snapchat yesterday on the FabFitFun channel (I might have mixed up the order of those) in which she stated that the ladies and men were separated before rose ceremonies with the camera off to prepare. Allegedly, right before this last rose ceremony with the cameras off, Caila told Amanda that she would not be opposed to accepting a proposal from Jared, but didn't actually like him and would be open to breaking it off a few months later. Amanda then relayed this conversation to the other women, and Ashley confronted a producer about it. Naturally, she was told to go address the rumor with Caila directly. She claims that what we saw was a highly edited version of that conversation because any reference to anything that happened off camera was cut. She will apparently also explain this in her article for Cosmo that comes out today. Obviously, I think Ashley is nuts, and I'm sure her interpretation of what happened of what happened is completely skewed. That said, I don't think it's just mean girl mentality or loyalty to Ashley that has led to Caila not forming any real friendships on either of her seasons so far--and on Ben's season the women were pretty close, for the most part. I said at the time that Caila seemed like someone who had had emotions described to her and was doing her best to emulate them, and I still feel that way. She's mild, and smiley, and articulate and careful in what she says. But she's either the world's blandest person, or there's another side to Caila that she keeps behind her carefully crafted exterior, and either way, it seems to be off-putting to others. 

Ashley should have stayed out of this thing from the beginning, but I have to grant her this--what she told Caila about being Jared's main girl and Caila never becoming more important to him than Ashley ended up being correct. 

I'm happy about Nick being the Bachelor. Luke was my favorite on Jojo's season, but I was not at all looking forward to seeing a season all about him. I thought it would be boring, that his mumbling would make me nuts, and that a guy like Luke is just more appealing somehow as the man trying to win the girl than as the prize that women are all fighting over. I would much, much rather watch Nick.

[FamilyVan]

Quote

And let's not forget the gravity of calling someone a whore or a hooker. Not that BIP is anyone's idea of serious tv, but those are awful things to call someone. Awful. I don't know what's legally considered slander, but it certainly crossed a line.

Yes exactly.  When social media was saying things like this about Kaitlyn, Chris and TPTB made sure to make a point of saying how they did not appreciate reactions like this within BN.  But Ashley tosses the W word around and it does not even cause a ruffle?  

Quote

 2nd question. Ashley said she finally is over Jared.  She actually seemed to be from the way she looked at him and talked. I kind of believed her this time. 

Oh I do not believe her at all.  She kept touching his arm.  She is here to stay.  She got exactly what she wanted, proof that Jared and her are still "together" and no one else comes close.  She is his main chick, just like she said. 

Quote

 Watch the episode, Lace says she can't stand Caila. 

Are we sure it was Lace that said that?  Ashley was standing right next to her on the stairs, is it clear who actually said it?  Would make a lot more sense coming from Ashley.

Edited September 1, 2016 by FamilyVan

[waving feather]

1 hour ago, Jillibean said:

Ashley should have stayed out of this thing from the beginning, but I have to grant her this--what she told Caila about being Jared's main girl and Caila never becoming more important to him than Ashley ended up being correct. 

Phew, lucky for Caila. She dodged a bullet there and should be thankful she's not Jared's "main girl". Maybe Caila didn't become BFFs with those people because it's not her scene and they are not the type of people she usually hangs with. It happens. We don't need to get along with every type of people.

Regarding the so-called expose by Ashley, IF it's true, it looks really bad on Amanda. Caila confided in her and she went to blabbed and gossiped about it to everyone. What's the big deal if she is contemplating break-up after a few months? It happens to 90% of the couples, even on the main Bachelor/Bachelorette shows. It's nothing shocking nor scandalous. 

[thehepburn]

I will laugh my ass off if any of these mean girls get engaged and the engagement is off in three months. But they were there for "the right reasons". Right.

[GracieK]

1 hour ago, Jillibean said:

Ashley did a snapchat yesterday on the FabFitFun channel (I might have mixed up the order of those) in which she stated that the ladies and men were separated before rose ceremonies with the camera off to prepare. Allegedly, right before this last rose ceremony with the cameras off, Caila told Amanda that she would not be opposed to accepting a proposal from Jared, but didn't actually like him and would be open to breaking it off a few months later. Amanda then relayed this conversation to the other women, and Ashley confronted a producer about it. Naturally, she was told to go address the rumor with Caila directly. She claims that what we saw was a highly edited version of that conversation because any reference to anything that happened off camera was cut. She will apparently also explain this in her article for Cosmo that comes out today. Obviously, I think Ashley is nuts, and I'm sure her interpretation of what happened of what happened is completely skewed. That said, I don't think it's just mean girl mentality or loyalty to Ashley that has led to Caila not forming any real friendships on either of her seasons so far--and on Ben's season the women were pretty close, for the most part. I said at the time that Caila seemed like someone who had had emotions described to her and was doing her best to emulate them, and I still feel that way. She's mild, and smiley, and articulate and careful in what she says. But she's either the world's blandest person, or there's another side to Caila that she keeps behind her carefully crafted exterior, and either way, it seems to be off-putting to others. 

Ashley should have stayed out of this thing from the beginning, but I have to grant her this--what she told Caila about being Jared's main girl and Caila never becoming more important to him than Ashley ended up being correct. 

I'm happy about Nick being the Bachelor. Luke was my favorite on Jojo's season, but I was not at all looking forward to seeing a season all about him. I thought it would be boring, that his mumbling would make me nuts, and that a guy like Luke is just more appealing somehow as the man trying to win the girl than as the prize that women are all fighting over. I would much, much rather watch Nick.

Ahhh now this is all starting to make sense. So Caila mentioned something about accepting an engagement but having no problem breaking it which is like blasphemy to these kooks.. I mean even though they are all thinking that way I have no doubt they delude themselves into taking this whole thing way too seriously.. it's like a cult. So Amanda runs and blabs this to all the other girls and it gets interpreted as Caila said she doesn't really like Jared but she would say yes to an engagement.. you know for TV sake. And that's how Ashley and others justify warning Jared that Caila is insincere. 

I do think Caila was unwise in saying such a thing out loud because this is nothing more than high school cliques and drama, but it obviously doesn't justify the ultimate treatment of her. No wonder she looked so deer in the headlights at the After Show and didn't speak up.. because she is too timid to speak up against the whole construct of Bachelor Nation for fear of being further ostracized. 

And let's suppose that what she said and did was really underhanded and awful (it wasn't), that still does not make Ashley look justified or righteous in her handling of the situation. You can be right in your opinion or perception and still be oh so wrong in your handling of it. Come on.. you're almost 30. It's time to stop with the teenage dramatics over perceived wrongs involving your friends. Jared is a big boy and you are a big girl.  Time to start handling yourself with some decorum. My goodness she needs to get laid so she can start moving on in her thinking and relationships on a more mature playing field.  Like it's obvious that she turns these events into major issues because she doesn't have anything more serious to focus on. 

Edited September 1, 2016 by GracieK

[ljenkins782]

On August 30, 2016 at 10:26 PM, TiredMe said:

I'm completely indifferent. I always watch this shit show because it entertains the hell out of me. So Luke, Nick. Whatever. I'm always in. Lol

Caila looked annoyed at having to deal with Ashley again. Honestly it does seem like no one likes Caila. Is there something we aren't being shown on tv?

Caila's restraint is amazing. Her annoyance showed through clearly but she never stopped being polite and diplomatic. I really do think she's too normal for this show, she seems to actually consider acting a fool on TV to be a bad thing, which is a no-no for this franchise, lol. 

Was that Caila who walked up on Lace & co and got shooed away. I heard Lace say "I can't stand her" but I wasn't sure if that was Caila. It was such a weird little throwaway scene with no context.

Quote

Jared - what an asshole.  I get he and Caila didn't click but to continue a friendship with someone he should have a restraining order against? No, just no.  So from what I got from Caila, Ashley continued to call and call and Jared took each and every call and then chatted a bit.

Yep, that was exactly the impression I had too from that "he has friends who call and he always takes the call" comment. Jared could not have been that into Caila if he didn't consider how that was going to come across. At this point, I think he and Ashley are both co-dependent and neither one of them is ever going to have an actual relationship with anyone else. 

Quote

This whole Nick surprise makes me even more sure the whole thing between him and Josh was completely staged. And I think Josh is happy with Amanda and I also guess he could have been the bachelor if he had wanted it at some point. Nick has been trying for years. I always watch so I can't say I won't, but listening to his lisp for a whole season is going to be rough. 

Yeah, I have my doubts that Josh really cares about Nick getting the Bachelor gig and honestly, probably is laughing at him for still being on the Bachelor rollercoaster now that he appears to be happy with Amanda. 

And that lisp is my one big concern about a Nick season. I didn't like him on Kaitlyn's season because he seemed like a disingenuous shit-stirrer, but after watching him on BiP where he had actual friends, he seems like a fun guy. But that lisp... Very tough to listen to. 

ETA: 

Quote

Are we sure it was Lace that said that?  Ashley was standing right next to her on the stairs, is it clear who actually said it?  Would make a lot more sense coming from Ashley

Lace has a very distinctive, monotone sounds-like-she-has-lockjaw voice, it was definitely Lace. 

Edited September 1, 2016 by ljenkins782

[GracieK]

Exactly they aren't acting like adults.. but at their age they SHOULD be.  It's unattractive to be a 30 year old woman who still acts like a teenager. 

[Selkie75]

14 hours ago, wings707 said:

There is nothing sinister that happened with Caila.  Ashley was referring to a conversation with Caila before they went on BiP.  Ashley asked her not to date Jared on the show.  Caila replied,  I won't, he is not my type.  Not wise of Caila to have that response. She strikes me as someone who would just be nice in the moment and tell someone what they wanted to hear.   

Caila has actually addressed this on one of the podcasts, I think it may have been Here to Make Friends, and she owned what she said and that perhaps she should have let Ashley know that she had made the spur of the moment decision to go. Caila seems to be the one who everyone focuses on regarding this conversation BIP, but I find it hard to imagine that this was a mature, dignified conversation between two friends. Much more likely is Ashley devolving into histrionics at some point and manipulating to get what she wanted. During their first conversation in paradise, Caila never denied the conversation and when Ashley asked her why she went out with Jared when she said he wasn't her type, her response was that she talked to him. I have a hard time believing this was some nefarious plot by Caila to back stab Ashley but more likely that she felt in the moment they had that conversation that he wasn't her type. I think she probably wishes she never said it to begin with.

2 hours ago, GracieK said:

Ahhh now this is all starting to make sense. So Caila mentioned something about accepting an engagement but having no problem breaking it which is like blasphemy to these kooks.. I mean even though they are all thinking that way I have no doubt they delude themselves into taking this whole thing way too seriously.. it's like a cult. So Amanda runs and blabs this to all the other girls and it gets interpreted as Caila said she doesn't really like Jared but she would say yes to an engagement.. you know for TV sake. And that's how Ashley and others justify warning Jared that Caila is insincere. 

I do think Caila was unwise in saying such a thing out loud because this is nothing more than high school cliques and drama, but it obviously doesn't justify the ultimate treatment of her. No wonder she looked so deer in the headlights at the After Show and didn't speak up.. because she is too timid to speak up against the whole construct of Bachelor Nation for fear of being further ostracized. 

And let's suppose that what she said and did was really underhanded and awful (it wasn't), that still does not make Ashley look justified or righteous in her handling of the situation. You can be right in your opinion or perception and still be oh so wrong in your handling of it. Come on.. you're almost 30. It's time to stop with the teenage dramatics over perceived wrongs involving your friends. Jared is a big boy and you are a big girl.  Time to start handling yourself with some decorum. My goodness she needs to get laid so she can start moving on in her thinking and relationships on a more mature playing field.  Like it's obvious that she turns these events into major issues because she doesn't have anything more serious to focus on. 

I don't even think Caila was given an opportunity to say anything on After Paradise. When Ashley brought up this huge thing that happened off camera, she said she wasn't going to get into it then. The hosts just went along with it because heaven forbid anyone ever truly challenge Ashley. I do have to give credit for Sean for calling Ashley out on the vile things she said about Caila but one insincere apology later, it all seemed to be forgotten.

This whole bombshell that Ashley supposedly dropped is just ridiculous. I do wish Caila had been more careful who she was confiding in; let's not forget though that Amanda was sent home right before Caila during Ben's season, after Ben met her daughters, and I have to wonder if there is still some resentment there. But sadly there are those who will take any opportunity to take advantage and it's not surprising that Amanda ran off to the others to spill what she had heard. Caila told Jared, on camera, that she wasn't sure of her feelings toward him. She also dated him for six weeks, off camera, so how that equates to her being fake and  just wanting the attention, I have yet to understand.  Ashley is the girl who smiles at the other girls faces, then calls them whores and trash behind their back. Hypocrisy at its finest. The double standard is just baffling - everyone on this show has questioned their feelings. I brought it up (no pun intended) on another post, but Carly literally vomited after kissing Evan. She said horrible things about him but for some reason her indecisiveness is given a free pass. Lace was outright flirting with another guy in front of Grant, Izzy broke up with Vinny after one look at Brett, but they have all escaped the treatment that Caila has received. This was never about caring for Jared; Jared is a grown man. If this was about Jared, she wouldn't still be going on about it, months later, when Jared and Caila aren't even together anymore. Ashley had a clear agenda and it was about getting back at Caila. It's all baffling and unsettling and just gross to witness.

I had very little respect for many of the cast on this show and that has declined to no respect at this point. My respect for Caila has grown and I sincerely hope that the hatred stops being directed at her as it has to be difficult. I really don't even want to watch the finale at this point.

[gator12]

So Jen is mad that Nick is the Bachelor, her friend Lauren H. (from Ben season) is saying he dump her to be the Bachelor. If they mutual broke up on BIP, what the problem? Did they see each other in the 2 months after the show finish?

They sound like Ben and Tenley, except Ben and Tenley actually hung out outside of the show before he was announce as the Bachelor

Edited September 1, 2016 by gator12

[Mabinogia]

4 minutes ago, Selkie75 said:

The hosts just went along with it because heaven forbid anyone ever truly challenge Ashley.

It drives me crazy how everyone seems to tip toe around Ashley like she's special. No wonder she acts like a freaking brat and throws tantrums to get what she wants. It works! It disgusts me.

5 minutes ago, Selkie75 said:

I had very little respect for many of the cast on this show and that has declined to no respect at this point. My respect for Caila has grown and I sincerely hope that the hatred stops being directed at her as it has to be difficult. I really don't even want to watch the finale at this point.

THIS! Completely. I was just thinking about the finale and honestly, the only couple I even care about anymore are, much to my absolute shock, Carly and Evan! How that happened, I don't know. But I find most of the rest of the people there either non-existent or vile.

My wish for Caila is that she gets as far away from this stupid Bachelor Nation as she possibly can because this show and the people who become entrenched in it are toxic.

 

PS: Only a total psycho moron would NOT have doubts or questions about a relationship they have been in for a few days/couple weeks. It's called normal dating Ashley, go try it. (wait, no, I don't wish that on normal people. Continue stalking Jared, he loves it, just do it away from cameras please)

[Wings]

It will be hard to learn but I would love to know how Ashley and Jared are going to proceed.  They are both disturbed.  My guess is that this twisted relationship will last for years.  

[waving feather]

The only few people on the show who don't seem to approve of Ashley's behavior are Nick (in a direct manner) and Evan (who always looked annoyed and skeptical when Ashley is spinning her stories). I take it as a sign of maturity when people don't buy into her BS.

[BatesDidIt]

I finally signed up to defend Ashley I.  I can't help it, I kind of love her.  I think she's just as smart as Caila (probably more so), but much more down to earth and she has no issues being herself (and she's on the money about Hanson!).  Caila is polished and perfect and I don't believe a word she says.  An insult from Caila ("he loves you like a sister") is so much more cutting to me than Ashley's random name-calling.  I just honestly think Caila is meaner and emptier inside.

I think Sean is the simplest man alive and his Caila obsession/Ashley hatred irks me.  It's totally reasonable to like Caila and dislike Ashley I., but he's kind of spiteful at this point and it actually makes me root for Ashley more.

Various cast members have vouched for what Ashley said about Caila's sincerity re: Jared, so I believe it.  Caila was never going to date Jared in real life.

I also believe that Ashley is pretty much over Jared based ONLY on how much dreamier Wells is.  I actually thought Wells looked really uncomfortable next to Caila.  I'm kind of rooting for him and Ashley happening in real life, if not on BIP.  Did anyone catch that Wells said something like "Hey, I'm right here!" when Jared was talking about the one time he and Ashley ended up kissing...?  It gave me hope.  Wells is the nonthreatening, boyband-looking, V-card-swiping man that I want for Ashley (since I am an old 30-something and cannot have him for myself!). Get it, girl!

[Selkie75]

1 hour ago, Mabinogia said:

It drives me crazy how everyone seems to tip toe around Ashley like she's special. No wonder she acts like a freaking brat and throws tantrums to get what she wants. It works! It disgusts me.

100% agree that everyone, with the exclusion of maybe Nick, tiptoe around her and absolutely give in when she starts the tears. I am a very emotional person by nature, and do tend to cry a fair amount, but I feel that her tears, her histrionics are not about emotion, they are about attention. Case in point, when Jared confronted her about Caila leaving. He was getting upset, for once telling her is as not about her, and instantly she started crying, prompting Jared to coddle, hug, and enable. It's exactly like a child who wants a toy and will cry, and bang their fists and throw an tantrum. Rather than treating Ashley like an adult, everyone else gives her the toy, so of course, she will continue to behave the way she has. It's maddening to watch. Her "friends" are not helping her in any way, shape of form. If I was behaving the way she is, I would hope that my friends would sit me down and tell me the hard truth about how appalling I was being.

[Selkie75]

13 minutes ago, BatesDidIt said:

Various cast members have vouched for what Ashley said about Caila's sincerity re: Jared, so I believe it.  Caila was never going to date Jared in real life.

Caila and Jared did date in real life, off camera. Granted, only for 6 weeks but it was after the filming, she traveled to RI to visit him and met his family.

[Seawolff]

2 hours ago, Mabinogia said:

It drives me crazy how everyone seems to tip toe around Ashley like she's special. No wonder she acts like a freaking brat and throws tantrums to get what she wants. It works! It disgusts me.

Me too. Of course no one wants to poke the bear; but there also seems to be an undercurrent groupthink that treats Ashley as though her actions aren't as reprehensible as they would be if she were sexually experienced - this is so ridiculous-  that she is innocent or somehow childlike and not to be held responsible for her actions simply because she hasn't yet engaged in intercourse. Does this mean that women aren't to be taken seriously or be held accountable, that they are only children until active with a man? I realize we are talking about a dating show. The people on it are hot to find a mate and are more likely to have this attitude than other groups. But wow.

Her portrayal as the Virgin Mary in the opening credits really bothers me. The remote parallel to be drawn is ridiculously materialistic. Her behavior is not even in accordance with the Biblical admonition to remain chaste! Her history of avoiding the home plate is in no way to be compared to the unusual biological circumstance around the pregnancy of a selfless woman who might have remained happily and utterly unknown had she not given birth to the Christ. 

Just because you haven't had sex doesn't mean you are by default a saint, an innocent, or a hero.

Her apology was as forced and self serving as any made by a non repentant rapist.

Edited September 1, 2016 by Seawolff
All my editing and the sentences are still long. Sorry

[BatesDidIt]

1 minute ago, Selkie75 said:

Caila and Jared did date in real life, off camera. Granted, only for 6 weeks but it was after the filming, she traveled to RI to visit him and met his family.

I know, I saw the show.  I also noticed Jared's demeanor and saw his later tweet and it seems like he haaaates Caila now. This is the guy who can't even be mean to Ashley when she's being horrible!  There must be a reason for it.

I don't think Caila ever saw him as legit boyfriend material.  I could absolutely be wrong, but that's what I see.

[backformore]

The premise of the show is that people "fall in love"  and get engaged ON THE SHOW.   Just like on the Bachelor/ette versions.  I think a Bachelor-esque "engagement"  is really seen as more of a "lets explore this relationship further outside of a reality show"  then a "we WILL be married". 

  So if Caila indicated that she would be willing to accept a proposal and ring, I take it as her being willing to do the Bachelor franchise thing, and be a couple in public as they figure out if a "real" (as opposed to reality show) relationship could work.   She was willing to be "Bachelor-engaged", which we all know may or may not lead to an actual marriage.  So what?   In the Bachelor world, engaged means what "dating"  means in the real world.

I said before, if Jared ever wants to "find love"  with another woman, he needs to lose Ashley.  She will interfere with every relationship he ever has, because nobody is good enough.   If he really can't do that, if he has to have Ashley in his life, he should marry her.  One or the other, black or white, on or off, together or apart.  there's no in between, there's no "just friends".    

AND - Ashley needs that just as much.   What guy would want to date a woman who is so clearly hung up on her "guy best friend?"   She is in love with Jared, has been for well over a year, felt that way BEFORE she met him.  A guy would be crazy to try and have a serious relationship with someone who is that close to their "one true love who doesn't love me back."

(Edited to say I have never used so many quote marks in one post in my life. )

Edited September 1, 2016 by backformore

[Falafel]

Quote

Regarding Caila I don't think she is a stealth bitch but I don't think she is the victim either. Watch the episode, Lace says she can't stand Caila. I don't think it was her smiling.

If Lace, of all people, not liking you is some sort of indictment on your personality, then lord help us all. Everyone has people who don't like them -- that's normal. No person is liked by everyone. Lace and Caila have opposite personalities -- Lace is brash, Caila is polite, Lace rolls her eyes a lot, Caila smiles a lot, etc. It didn't shock me in the slightest when Lace said she couldn't stand Caila because Lace is so unlike her in every way. The fact that Lace would even announce to everyone, "I can't stand her," shows how different she is than Caila. And that's fine, they are allowed to be different and not like each other. It doesn't mean anything, and it certainly doesn't have anything to do with someone being a "stealth bitch" (completely offensive and ridiculous term that only a woman would be called).

I think it's really sad that Caila did nothing wrong, but walked into a situation where Ashley was going to vilify her, no matter who she was, and some people are actually believing it. Jared engineered all of this and is, I think, a jerk -- I think he sees himself as a nice guy and truly believes it, but he actually just sucks. It's so evident that he loves being around a woman who is obsessed with him and showers him with attention that he is willing to string Ashley and her crazy along. I've known guys like this, and they believe they've made it clear they are just friends so they are doing nothing wrong, despite them sending tons of mixed signals and leading the person on to boost their ego. People who do this, like Jared, are spineless and despicable, if you ask me. (That Ashley sucks and is insufferable goes without saying at this point. Jared is supposed to be the rational one here.)

Edited September 1, 2016 by Falafel

[Selkie75]

20 minutes ago, BatesDidIt said:

I know, I saw the show.  I also noticed Jared's demeanor and saw his later tweet and it seems like he haaaates Caila now. This is the guy who can't even be mean to Ashley when she's being horrible!  There must be a reason for it.

I don't think Caila ever saw him as legit boyfriend material.  I could absolutely be wrong, but that's what I see.

And this is exactly one of the reasons that I have completely changed my opinion of Jared, whom I actually liked before. Could there have been other reasons that Jared and Caila didn't stay together? Of course. But, Caila said on After Paradise she and Jared just couldn't get past Paradise and their major obstacle there was Ashley and her all out vitriolic campaign against Caila, which she continues to this day.  Who would ever want to have a relationship with someone who enables behavior like Ashley's and on top of that defends her when she said all out horrible things about the girl he was dating? As for Jared hating Caila, I don't see that in his tweet, but if he does, she's so much better off to have that energy as far away from her as possible.

[Nowhere]

1 hour ago, wings707 said:

It will be hard to learn but I would love to know how Ashley and Jared are going to proceed.  They are both disturbed.  My guess is that this twisted relationship will last for years.  

My ex-husband had a good friend that had an Ashley except not a very pretty one. This guy however was very good looking but he couldn't shake this girl who had been in love with him since high school. When I met them we were in our early twenties and this guy would let her come visit and stay the week. They were just friends though. The guy would always say he wasn't at all attracted to her (and everyone could see why), but that she was always bugging him, calling him, asking to visit so sometimes he would let her. And he did admit that she was a good friend to him. But it was always just a friendship. Strictly friendship. And then one day he married her. 

[BatesDidIt]

17 minutes ago, Falafel said:

Jared engineered all of this and is, I think, a jerk -- I think he sees himself as a nice guy and truly believes it, but he actually just sucks. It's so evident that he loves being around a woman who is obsessed with him and showers him with attention that he is willing to string Ashley and her crazy along. I've known guys like this, and they believe they've made it clear they are just friends so they are doing nothing wrong, despite them sending tons of mixed signals and leading the person on to boost their ego. People who do this, like Jared, are spineless and despicable, if you ask me. (That Ashley sucks and is insufferable goes without saying at this point. Jared is supposed to be the rational one here.)

Oh, I totally agree about Jared.  I just think Caila sucks too.  I felt the same way about her on the Bachelor; I don't believe a word she says.

[Mabinogia]

28 minutes ago, backformore said:

She was willing to be "Bachelor-engaged", which we all know may or may not lead to an actual marriage.  So what?   In the Bachelor world, engaged means what "dating"  means in the real world.

This is so true. I wonder what the generation of young women who grew up on this show (it's terrifying to think that is even something that is possible already) know about actual dating in the real world. Do they expect what they see on this shit show? I think that's half of Ashley's problem. She grew up with some inaccurate ideas about love and romance and doesn't get what the real world is like. A girl who goes out with a guy who is just your friend is not a whore. A woman from Russia who asks out a guy she thinks is cute who went out on one date with you is not a hooker. Meanwhile, she doesn't call Jared, who "dumped" her for Caila or Wells who "dumped" her for two other women whores or sluts or hookers. She is a woman hater. These guys could be her boyfriends and cheat on her and it would be the woman's fault, even if that woman didn't know he was in a relationship. Never the guys fault. I hate women like her.

[seacliffsal]

I can believe that Jared turned against Caila.  After all, he obviously loves attention, being worshiped and 'fought over' and if Caila didn't fall into that pattern he may be angry at her.  There are people (men and women both) who want others to compete for their attention, and if someone doesn't play their games, they out and out reject that person and tell others how the person never really cared for them, etc.  Not only does this franchise give unrealistic visions of falling in love, it always offers an unrealistic look of how people 'in love' act.  If one doesn't fit that pattern, then they are out.

I never like Ashley on her earlier seasons, but wow has my dislike upped about a million times after this season.  However, my dislike for Jared, which is new this season, surpasses even my Ashley dislike scale as he presents himself as 'nice' but by his actions (or non-actions) inspires and validates Ashley's despicable comments and actions.

[SassyCat]

Ok. Now that we've heard the "big reveal" from Assley, about the horrific actions supposedly dished out by Caila, we are all supposed to say ahh, now we get it! Send Caila to the lion's den! How could she possibly do something as unforgivable as not know right off the bat if she would be attracted to Jared and want to marry him after a weeks time had passed!

It's ok for Carly, to literally insult, vomit after kissing, and hem and haw about Evan for days on end, before changing HER mind and want to give the relationship a fair chance, but not Caila?
 
If Carly and Evan get engaged on bip, does Carly know for sure right now that she will marry Evan? 
What about shit stirrer Amanda? The quiet one in the background who claims to be a good judge of character and continues with this control freak after paradise even tho she hears nothing but warnings from people giving an objective view, from what they are seeing with their own eyes.
Does anyone think she (Amanda) may have gone into this with hopes that it WILL work out for her and Josh, but secretly wonders if it will, and is giving the relationship time to evolve into whatever it evolves into, or not?

Does anyone think Caila should not have the same human right as any of them to have a sudden attraction upon meeting someone in the flesh, face to face. (Re: Izzy Brent)? even tho Assley tried to handcuff her away from Jared with her phone calls to the possible female competition , manipulating and conniving to keep all away from Jared, don't even look at him , don't even think about it or I might go insane, preemptive strikes?

Supposedly every one knows Jared thinks of Assley as just a friend, so why the hell not go on a date with him. He's not taken. She is not the boss of Caila or anyone else!
This is not the Assley show, tho she thinks it is and has the others thinking it too!

Thank you Sean Lowe for being the only reasonable one on this show. I and many others appreciate that.

What I see is someone who was raised with an emphasis on etiquette, more of an aristocrat approach to living life (Caila) , like a Rory Gilmore girl, tossed in with a bunch of people who were taught minimal good manners. Just enough to get by maybe, but even that isn't showing in their atrocious behavior to Caila. Jealousy does bring out the worst in people huh? They can sense a bit of dignity in Caila, so Assley tried to make everyone believe Caila has no dignity. It's not working.

I see true slander on national tv going on here, out of the mouth of Queen Assley. Painful character assassination towards another without any valid proof Caila is a "whore". I always thought the definition of whore, was someone who would sleep with and have sex with alot of men, indiscriminately. 

That's a pretty big accusation on national tv to place on someone who did nothing but try to find a new beau like all the rest of the participants. None of us saw alot of Caila whoring going on either. Because none did. So Assley purposely lied about Caila, publicly on national tv, about her whoring character, which does not exist.

As you see, I could go on and on and on about this, but I end it here.

[backformore]

Ashley has convinced Jared that she is looking out for him and has his best interests at heart.   BUT - she believes that his best interests involve her chasing away any other woman who gets close to him.  

Ashley has some psychological issues.  She can remain a virgin forever because the one and only guy she wants doesn't want her.  So she can have the romantic fairly tale, pining for her prince charming, without having to do any of that icky sex stuff.  Her version of love is an 11 year old girl swooning over a poster of a boy band singer and imagining their fairy tale wedding in a castle (but not the honeymoon night), then crying her eyes out when she finds out he's dating someone. 

[Pixel]

1 hour ago, Nowhere said:

My ex-husband had a good friend that had an Ashley except not a very pretty one. This guy however was very good looking but he couldn't shake this girl who had been in love with him since high school. When I met them we were in our early twenties and this guy would let her come visit and stay the week. They were just friends though. The guy would always say he wasn't at all attracted to her (and everyone could see why), but that she was always bugging him, calling him, asking to visit so sometimes he would let her. And he did admit that she was a good friend to him. But it was always just a friendship. Strictly friendship. And then one day he married her. 

Same thing happened to a friend of mine. He had two kids with her and then came out of the closet. 

[backformore]

Quote

Same thing happened to a friend of mine. He had two kids with her and then came out of the closet. 

That thought has also crossed my mind.   Ashley serves a purpose for Jared.  MAYBE that purpose is helping him avoid romantic entanglements with other women until he figures out what the hell he really wants. 

(and then Ashley can have a gay best friend)

[ByTor]

1 hour ago, SassyCat said:

It's ok for Carly, to literally insult, vomit after kissing, and hem and haw about Evan for days on end, before changing HER mind and want to give the relationship a fair chance, but not Caila?

That's because Carly didn't tell some nut who is obsessed with Evan (haha yeah, I know) that she wouldn't date him.

[GoldLeaf]

2 hours ago, Falafel said:

If Lace, of all people, not liking you is some sort of indictment on your personality, then lord help us all. Everyone has people who don't like them -- that's normal. No person is liked by everyone. Lace and Caila have opposite personalities -- Lace is brash, Caila is polite, Lace rolls her eyes a lot, Caila smiles a lot, etc. It didn't shock me in the slightest when Lace said she couldn't stand Caila because Lace is so unlike her in every way. The fact that Lace would even announce to everyone, "I can't stand her," shows how different she is than Caila. And that's fine, they are allowed to be different and not like each other. It doesn't mean anything, and it certainly doesn't have anything to do with someone being a "stealth bitch" (completely offensive and ridiculous term that only a woman would be called).

I think it's really sad that Caila did nothing wrong, but walked into a situation where Ashley was going to vilify her, no matter who she was, and some people are actually believing it. 

Ashley cleared up the Lace comment with her Fab a Fit fun snapchat so no it wasn't about personalities. It was as I assumed, an issue with omission in the edit. Ashley acted truly terrible in this season and there is no excuse but I just don't buy that it is as black and white as it seems. It wasn't just lace, it was the whole house and multiple sources saying the same thing....there is just something so suspect about that. 

Ashley's reveal doesn't excuse her behaviour but it does raise concerns about Caila. It is fine to have doubts but to say you would be ok to break off an engagement is not ok especially when the guy is super into you. For all the criticism Ashley is getting for being selfish, that's pretty much on par with that. Saying that everyone does that on the show is not the point. Caila is priding herself on bring this kind person but that is a calculated thought. An engagement indicates  commitment. If you can imagine it ending in 3 months why get engaged....its a pretty massive gesture! When you add that to an already overly emotional Ashley, you get a lot of crazy (not ok of course!) - but there is no innocent party in this.

As for Jared and Ashley, I was surprised to see him on her snap chat again! I think she was backstage for access Hollywood or something. If they are not dating then it's very strange to spend so much time with a "friend."

[Jillibean]

Quote

Ashley has convinced Jared that she is looking out for him and has his best interests at heart.   BUT - she believes that his best interests involve her chasing away any other woman who gets close to him. 

I don't think she needed to convince him of anything. He basically lets her do whatever she wants with no repercussions to their "friendship." Even in this case, everyone besides Ashley seemed to realize that whatever frustration he had with her was going to pass very quickly. Jared isn't dumb. He knew exactly what Ashley was trying to do to Caila and basically let her do it. She wouldn't behave nearly as badly as she does if he actually showed her the door on occasion. She's horrific, but she also has no incentive not to be. I think what makes me dislike Ashley the most is how mean she is about people she feels threatened by, like Clare last season and Caila and Shushana this season. The comments about other women being whores, or old and decrepit or whatever else are so unnecessary and are the hallmark of a true spoiled brat with no self awareness. I want her to get a reality check maybe more than anyone else ever on this series.

That being said, I also don't care for Caila and have no problem believing that there is more going on with her than what we saw. 

[Padma]

After seeing Jared, Ashley and Caila on AP, I would wager anything--anything!--that while Caila thought she was "dating Jared" and "trying to have a relationship after Paradise", Jared was blabbing about every development  their relationship and asking Ashley for her thoughts about it. What Caila said to him. What they did. Where they went. And get Ashley's feedback (no question that it would put the worst possible spin on it). No wonder he seems to hate Caila (who, to her credit, came across better in  paradise and AP than as a b-ette). She seems pretty, quiet, kind and not interested in bringing the bitchy drama (of the above , only "pretty" describes Ashley).

Ashley said, very convincingly , that she's now over Jared and I believe her. I wish someone had asked more about it. Did something happen in St.Lucia?  She may not want him any more for herself, but I'll still bet she doesn't want anyone elese to have a relationship with him.

Personally, I'm guessing they "did the deed" in St. Lucia  and realized it wasn't meant to be.                        I wish Michelle had asked her (not really my business, but                         when you've c reated this  storyline about yourself for the public, why the heck not?)                                                                                                                                                                                                           Sh

[Mabinogia]

6 minutes ago, Padma said:

Personally, I'm guessing they "did the deed" in St. Lucia  and realized it wasn't meant to be.

I'm evil and I hate them both so I would LOVE it if Ashley's dreams finally came true and Jared professed his undying love for her, they fell down on a mattress covered in rose petals with Hanson's most romantic song gently playing in the background, the crackling of the fire tossing a warm glow on their naked bodies and....the sex sucked! Jared banged her, she thought "that's it!??!?". She leaves without her V card to lord over all those "whores" and "prostitutes" she looks down on and he looses his best friend and they are never on TV again.

[chocolatine]

4 minutes ago, Padma said:

Personally, I'm guessing they "did the deed" in St. Lucia  and realized it wasn't meant to be. 

St. Lucia wasn't really a couples' trip because Ashley's sister Lauren was also there. I saw some of the pictures from the trip on Instagram, and it didn't look like Ashley and Jared were being "romantic" with each other at all, and Lauren was in most of the pictures.

[GoldLeaf]

20 minutes ago, chocolatine said:

St. Lucia wasn't really a couples' trip because Ashley's sister Lauren was also there. I saw some of the pictures from the trip on Instagram, and it didn't look like Ashley and Jared were being "romantic" with each other at all, and Lauren was in most of the pictures.

I am sure this is true. But the first thing I thought when I saw the pictures was that Lauren was there to avoid rumours of some kind since the show was still airing. 

It was clear after this picture that both ended up single after paradise as I cannot imagine anyone they were dating would be happy with them going on a trip considering their history...

Edited September 1, 2016 by GoldLeaf

[Wandering Snark]

2 hours ago, Jillibean said:

He knew exactly what Ashley was trying to do to Caila and basically let her do it.

Not only that he lied to Caila about what Ashley had told him directly when he only passed on the vague "I guess some people have been saying things." He was defending her right to call other women whores and bitches I guess.

[Pixel]

1 hour ago, Padma said:

After seeing Jared, Ashley and Caila on AP, I would wager anything--anything!--that while Caila thought she was "dating Jared" and "trying to have a relationship after Paradise", Jared was blabbing about every development  their relationship and asking Ashley for her thoughts about it. What Caila said to him. What they did. Where they went. And get Ashley's feedback (no question that it would put the worst possible spin on it). No wonder he seems to hate Caila (who, to her credit, came across better in  paradise and AP than as a b-ette). She seems pretty, quiet, kind and not interested in bringing the bitchy drama (of the above , only "pretty" describes Ashley).

Ashley said, very convincingly , that she's now over Jared and I believe her. I wish someone had asked more about it. Did something happen in St.Lucia?  She may not want him any more for herself, but I'll still bet she doesn't want anyone elese to have a relationship with him.

Personally, I'm guessing they "did the deed" in St. Lucia  and realized it wasn't meant to be.                        I wish Michelle had asked her (not really my business, but                         when you've c reated this  storyline about yourself for the public, why the heck not?)                                                                                                                                                                                                           Sh

I don't believe her for a single second. She's smart. She's figured out that the next phase to eventually landing Jared is to convincingly play the part of girl who is over him because she thinks if she pulls it off he will eventually realize he's in love with her.  I've actually done this act myself, when I was in my twenties and stupid. It's so blatantly obvious. Ashley lives her life like it's a rom-com.  Waiting several weeks without contacting him so that he would text to see how she is? Textbook manipulation. 

Edited September 2, 2016 by Pixel

[chocolatine]

2 hours ago, Pixel said:

Waiting several weeks without contacting him so that he would text to see how she is? Textbook manipulation. 

The way Jared told it sounded like he had told her not to contact him anymore, but when she actually complied, he broke down and reached out to her. Which is why I have no sympathy whatsoever for Jared.

Edited September 2, 2016 by chocolatine