S02.E06: Church In Ruins

[Consternation]

Oh, David Morse is her dad?  I have just been referring to him as Don Draper.  Wait, I just googled him, wasn't he the cop on House that chewed nicotine gum?

 

So was the molester guy from the flashbacks supposed to be the young version of David Morse?  That is what I thought when I was watching it, but after reading this topic I am second guessing it.

[FemmyV]

Oh, David Morse is her dad?

 

So was the molester guy from the flashbacks supposed to be the young version of David Morse?  That is what I thought when I was watching it, but after reading this topic I am second guessing it.

 

David Morse is her dad. Flashback guy wasn't him. I don't think. If nothing else, flashback guy doesn't look like someone the uber-rich are going to take spirit advice from. Preview for next week, it looks like

Ani and her dad reconcile.

[Bannon]

The best word I can use to describe this episode's plot, dialogue, direction, hell, even musical score, is INEPT! I feel bad for the actors. I can barely believe that professionals put this together.

However, after one crappy scene after another, I was amused to see a contract read in a speeding car, apparently by the light of the moon

[scrb]

Ray gave in to his ex-wife, agreeing never to see his son again, after the son made him watch Friends.

[Consternation]

It hasn't been Ray's day, Ray's week, Ray's month, or even Ray's year.  But he'll be there for Chad, when the rain starts to pour...

[Captain I0]

That was the conversation in my household, too. Give me a break. Ray is no longer a young person. That should have been the END of him or at least made him wish it was the end when he sobered up... but nope, next scene he's perfectly fine, lah-dee-dah.

A habitual user, or even someone just used to coke binges (actually, probably even more so, somebody that is used to binges) could definitely handle that much coke. It's a lot, but that happens all the time. He's definitely playing with fire, and a batch that's more potent than he's suspecting could end him any night, but the odds are he's not going to go into cardiac arrest on any one given bender like that.

The comedown was him crying and breaking shit, so I wouldn't say he was perfectly fine at all from it. The effects of Coke are very short lasting. We got the high and the comedown all in a few hours.

[miss carousel]

Hey, Little Stan! I know you're going through a horrible time right now and you'd probably prefer to throw and catch your baseball over and over again in an effort to zone out and not think of the nightmare that has befallen you and your mother. But, instead I'm going to talk to you about the upside of having your childhood blighted by the murder of your father. Give me a hug!

Is this the end for Ray and Junior? After all the exclamations of how the boy is all he has, is his reason for living, is the one good thing in his life, Ray bails after one uncomfortable court supervised sober visit with the kid? Will we ever find out if he is Ray's biological son or did this episode wrap up the Ray and Junior's storyline? Were all those redheads just red herrings?

This episode was a mess.

[Guest]

I was amused to see a contract read in a speeding car, apparently by the light of the moon

Not to mention the LOL-worthy, "These are contracts...with signatures all over them!" Well, yeah, they're contracts -- people, you know, SIGN THOSE THINGS.

I also laughed out Lou's when Frank told Son of Stan there was "gold" inside of him and he didn't follow up with, "Stay golden, Pony Boy."

[shapeshifter]

Josh Clark, who played the retired cop (the one who investigated the theft of the blue diamonds during the LA riots)  is also playing Hildy and Junior's father (also a retired cop) on "Murder in the First"

Ooooh! Thank you! I was so confused, and for once, it wasn't this show's fault (I don't think?).

...while I know Ray has a ton of issues, I really think less of his ex for all of this.  I can understand not wanting to give him much responsibility, but it really ended up becoming "He never sees his son again or everyone has to find out he might be the product of a rapist" scenario, and I can't see why she wouldn't just let him see his son on a limited basis. Instead, he's agreeing to never see him again, and while she feels somewhat conflicted, seems content to let it happen..

I'm guessing she knew him well enough to know he'd eventually offer that deal, and that Chad was really terrified of Ray's outbursts. The problem is, the show didn't really show us either Chad's or the wife's thinking on the matter. Heck, I don't even recall the wife's name.

Any chance that Little Stan is really Frank's kid?

As far as casting goes, he looked more like a Little Ray.

Show's on the verge of devolving into a frickin' soap opera.

[Ellaria]

Shortly into the party sequence I, too, realised I had no idea what the actual plan was supposed to be.

 

I hope Ani sends her sister Athena somewhere safe because 'Athena' is who the party security will be searching for.

 

Ignoring the Ray & Paul contrivances, Ani at the party was intense!

 

 

I'm confused.  Was that the real plan with the Eyes Wide Shut party?  That Ani would go in and, I dunno, have a look around for something incriminating?  And to keep her from having to actually sex-up some old rich dude, Ray and Riggins were just gonna sneak up and find her by peeping in windows?  What if some guard took a shot at them, they gonna shoot back?  How they gonna explain that to the tough lady DA?

 

And did they really go with 'character overhears exactly the type of incriminating conversation he needs to overhear'?  Just how are they supposed to present this 'evidence' in court?  'Don't worry where we got it - it's all right here!'?  

 

Yes to both of these statements. I, too, was thinking "what's the actual plan here, guys." And the amount of contrivances were absurd. Ray & Paul overpower each and every security guard, stumble upon the contract-signing room, get into that room thru the use of Paul's pocket knife and then just happen to come upon Ani's escape route at the precise moment when she is trying to escape. And let's not forget that she found Vera - who she had only seen photos of - among the seemingly hundreds of people at the orgy.

 

And yet, despite these contrivances, I found it entertaining, mostly because they weren't discussing Stan or fertility issues.

 

I have to re-watch and pay closer attention to the identities of the male party-goers.

 

As far as the excellent list of questions from LilaFowler, I don't think that most of them will be addressed in a way that provides closure to the story line. Much will be "hand waved" away under the explanation of corruption and greed. The children that survived the jewelry store robbery will not be identified. They can be added to the long list of characters that had miserable childhoods. Birdman and the extent of his deeds will be identified but perhaps not brought to justice.

 

I think this ends much like S1: our three detectives will face down their inner demons and accept an imperfect world. As far as Frank - have no idea where this character ends up. Maybe he continues to mourn Stan.

[terrymct]

Chekhov's knife and Ani did not disappoint, even while fucked up. Who was the Manson looking dude in her drug-induced flashback? Was he with her dad or something?

 

I think he was a guy at the commune who raped her when she was a kid.

[terrymct]

I thought Retired Cop said that the murderers/robbers were the ones wearing masks, hence why the kids couldn't identify them?  The Show made such a big deal out of those two kids surviving the ordeal and then going into foster care that it makes me wonder if they are somewhere else in the show.  Chessani's kids?

 

Chessani's kids was my first thought, too, along with the idea mentioned by another commenter that one of the kids is probably the person in the bird suit.  I think it's the daughter because the bird mask person was slightly built and the son was built big.  Also, the son appears to have set up a life for himself that satisfies him.  The daughter, not so much.

Edited July 27, 2015 by terrymct

[33kaitykaity]

All stick women -- puh-leeze.  If you're going to put together an orgy, at least have the courtesy to cater to the tastes of your clients.  Some men like saggy tits.  Some men like a little cellulite.  Some men like a woman with something to grab onto.  Yeah, I know, I know, it's Hollyweird, but it just completely takes the heat out.  

[Pike Ludwell]

Unrelated: Ray's son is a dullard.

 

I understand the instincts that go with parenthood, but it was almost comical the attachment Ray felt to this dolt who is such a completely different person from him. Especially since Ray knows he's likely not the father. Didn't seem like Ray at all. It was great to see him finally do the right thing and just give the kid up. I was actually laughing out loud at that scene with them watching "Friends" - such a hilarious dichotomy, and I think the humor was deliberate.

Edited July 27, 2015 by riverclown

[blixie]

 

I thought Retired Cop said that the murderers/robbers were the ones wearing masks, hence why the kids couldn't identify them?  The Show made such a big deal out of those two kids surviving the ordeal and then going into foster care that it makes me wonder if they are somewhere else in the show.  Chessani's kids?

 

That is exactly what he said, not that the kids were wearing masks, and I agree that they are the Chessani kids.

 

 

Who set up Frank to set up Ray in regards to his wife's rape? (Is that significant?)

 

I don't think anyone set up Frank to set up Ray, he just threw Ray a guy he probably wanted/needed to be dead already. I took the whole conversation/confrontation being that Frank fairly obviously just needed a cop on his take. The thing is out of all those questions in your list the only one I actually care about is who killed Caspere, I care about nothing else and no one else.

 

 

Also, the rapist turned about to be dark skinned, possibly Hispanic.  With the mother also being Hispanic, where did the red hair and pale skin come from?  I

 

Yeah neither one of them is Hispanic. 

 

 

Speaking of inaccurate portrayals of drugs, if that was supposed to be MDMA, or something similar to it, then I have to call bullshit on Ani hallucinating, and having flashbacks to a repressed molestation.

 

Srsly. Also Pure Molly? That's redundant, the entire marketing of Molly is that it's pure MDMA v. adulterated stepped on pills sold through most of the ninties raves.

 

 

Why is Frank so central to the storyline?

 

If anything he was behind the diamond robbery.

 

I thought Flashback Fucked Up  Place molester was William Mapother. But IMDB seems to say no.

[Constantinople]

Ray and Chad should have watched Breaking Bad instead of Friends.

 

That might have given the showrunner some pointers on how to wrap-up storylines rather than drop in Frank's musings on the meaning of life with Son of Stan.

[teddysmom]

I'm with Chad - is Friends on? Anything would be better than this. 

 

I have a question about Pizzolato.  Is he writing every episode by himself? No staff to break an episode and make sure everything makes sense?  

 

Reason I ask is I've been rewatching Seasons 4-6 of Breaking Bad, and one thing I know about Vince Gilligan from listening to every Inside Breaking Bad podcast is that he and the writers relied heavily on each other.  Even if one person wrote an episode, the entire staff and Vince would sit down and go thru each scene, making sure that something was, at least in the BB world, feasible, make sure details were thought through, not introduce something that was never followed up with ie, Chekhov's Gun rule.   Not to say that occasionally I didn't have to go back and rewatch an episode because I didn't catch something key to the next episode, but I do not recall Breaking Bad needing this much thought.   I can take complicated plots, but True Detective needs a Venn Diagram, and somebody standing next to the tv with a pointer and the remote to pause a scene so we can discuss what just happened. 

 

Maybe that's a lot of the problem with this season of True Detective, if Pizzolato is writing every episode by himself, there's no one to say, this makes no sense whatsoever, this dialogue is just first year creative writing student bad, etc. 

 

Just a thought.....

[Bannon]

Not to mention the LOL-worthy, "These are contracts...with signatures all over them!" Well, yeah, they're contracts -- people, you know, SIGN THOSE THINGS.

I also laughed out Lou's when Frank told Son of Stan there was "gold" inside of him and he didn't follow up with, "Stay golden, Pony Boy."

I really wanted The Ghost of Stringer Bell to suddenly appear in the back seat, to intone "Those fools formed a written contract to outline a criminal f*cking conspiracy?!".

[Ottis]

This is the ep where I decided this season of True Detective is awful, and won't be rescued by a stunning finale where all the threads are tied together.

 

Poorly thought out, and poorly executed. The music at the whore house was annoying and bizarre (and not in a "murderer plays a classic 60s song while being stabby" way) ... someone upthread described it as 80s, and that's about right. The whole scene felt like it came from a crappy USA Network movie from Up All Night.

 

I care even less about these characters than I did before this ep. It's one thing to be reckless as a detective because something is driving you to know the truth. It's another to put yourself at deadly risk with a nonexistent "plan" because you ... are bored? WTH? Why do any of the three of them care about this case? The show cares far more about their personal lives.

 

I don't think Chad is a dullard. I think, given the situation he is in, he is practically paralyzed with fear that anything he says or does may result in craziness or a change in his life. And I think his weight and eating is a symptom of that.

 

The guy in jail for the rape(s) looks *nothing* like Chad.

 

I think this ends much like S1: our three detectives will face down their inner demons and accept an imperfect world. As far as Frank - have no idea where this character ends up. Maybe he continues to mourn Stan.

 

 

I think Col. Crittendun saves the day.

Edited July 27, 2015 by Ottis

[islandgal140]

As far as the excellent list of questions from LilaFowler, I don't think that most of them will be addressed in a way that provides closure to the story line. Much will be "hand waved" away under the explanation of corruption and greed. The children that survived the jewelry store robbery will not be identified. They can be added to the long list of characters that had miserable childhoods. Birdman and the extent of his deeds will be identified but perhaps not brought to justice.

 

 

Last season, Pizzolato's response to the large amount of questions left unanswered was that the show was about the detectives and not the crime. I was willing to buy that last season because of the chemistry between the actors and their ability to make that dialogue work., but this season, NOPE. Not buying it. Maybe it should be the opposite - about the crime; or at the very least stop trying so fucking hard by making the crime so got dang complicated and intricate. I feel like that is what happened this season. Pizzolato was so busy trying to create his own private Chinatown involving land and threw in everything, including the kitchen sink (prostitution, sex orgies, politics, police corruption, tensions between political bodies i.e. state vs local, corporate malfeasance, gangsters, cults - you name, its damn near in there) and then went to the writers bag of tropes when it came to the detectives. I feel like the story got to big for the writer. 

Edited July 27, 2015 by islandgal140

[teddysmom]

I also laughed out Lou's when Frank told Son of Stan there was "gold" inside of him and he didn't follow up with, "Stay golden, Pony Boy."

 

"You're so money, you don't even know it!"  

 

Please tell me that kid's name was Michael.  

[Jextella]

Frank set up two of the major, intersecting, corruption stories: He set up Ray to kill his wife's (assumed) rapist, "go bad" as a cop & become part of his team. Then his waste company devalued the land under the future rail corridor, making it easier for the partners to buy up the land at a cheap price.

 

So, let's try this out: Suppose James Frain and the newly dead chick were the kids in the diamond heist story. And maybe Caspere and Stan pulled it off. But why would Caspere still be holding the diamonds 20 years later?

I get the parts of Frank involvement as noted above, but I still don't see how his character has such a big role in the show.  He's not on either side in a big way.  He's not a cop and he's certainly not a big or relevant player in the land deal stuff.  He was/continues to be a gullible thug at best in the eyes of governors, developers, etc.

 

Where/when was it discussed that Stan and Caspere were in on the diamond theft?  I'm mostly confused about how Stan was/could have been involved.

 

...if Stan were involved in the diamond heist, it could explain Frank's relevance to the the cops' story and the land-deal story a great deal more. I just haven't seen anything suggesting Stan's involvement.  Odds are I missed it though.

Edited July 27, 2015 by Jextella

[DEM]

That score at the end reminded me of something out of an 80s fantasy film.

 

I thought it sounded Los Angeles noir, and I wondered whether the score had always been like that and I hadn't been paying attention.

 

A minor thing: The writer is trying to have it both ways with the time jump. It's supposed to be 2 months after the shoot out, right? Yet some things seem like they should have already taken place -- including, but not limited to, Osip the Russian shaking hands with Catalyst and Frank paying a visit to Mrs Stan.

[susannot]

The song at the end was The Cardigans, I think. Very 80's LA punk scene. When all the girls were lining up for the bus, I wondered where they were. And Ani just showed up? The man on the bus said "a free-lancer?" So anyone can show up if they have the right $2000 a night look?

Not a good idea to give her sister's name to the security men.

Edited July 27, 2015 by susannot

[DEM]

The song at the end was The Cardigans, I think.

 

Oh, I was referring to the underscore during the party sequence (being LA noir).  The end titles song was Black Grease by The Black Angels (2005). My apologies for the misunderstanding/confusion!

Edited July 27, 2015 by DEM

[penelope79]

Let me start saying that, no matter what, Colin Farrell and Rachel McAdams were both particularly amazing this episode.

I'm not comparing the 2 seasons of TD either, mostly because I never felt that MUCH love for s1 that so many people seem to have. That said... if someone can kindly explain what's happening, with some basic English, I'll be very much grateful, because for the first time I admit I'm having an hard time following the (supposed) main plot.

 

McCandless was in the room with Tony Chessani? There was a shot of a grey-haired man in a white shirt that she seemed to look at for a split second longer than other people. Who was that?

I agree with the speculation that Ani was molested at that commune as a child.

The first 40 minutes were not compelling, particularly Frank and his wife visiting Mrs Stan and his son. I guess we were supposed to feel Frank's compassion for Stan's son but ehhh. With each passing episode, I become less and less interested in Frank and whether he finds what he is looking for. (I'm not even sure what that is, at this point.) He seems to be a few steps behind every other bad guy in the show. Of course, his inability to properly assess a situation gets Irina killed. Lots of short-sighted decisions.

Those last scenes at the lodge/orgy were well - done. Suspenseful. Love our three detectives together.

Since Vera was not killed in the bloody cabin, who was?

Also, didn't Irina tell Frank that the man that gave her the money and the items to pawn was "white, thin...a cop?" That sounds like James Frain to me.

 

I thought: "That's James Frain she's talking about", too. Because come on, of course it's him!

Ani was definitively raped when she was a child. That creepy, Charles Manson-like guy telling her to follow him because "he found a unicorn" and Ani seeing herself entering the infamous 70s Volkswagen van with him seemed to cement the theory pretty clearly, to me.

 

Stan... my dear Stan! This episode, we found out that Stan not only was THE GUY, but he also was a very much beloved husband, father and friend. Apparently, gold was inside him. And now he's dead.

 

As soon as I realized VV and his wife were at Stan's house, I started to laugh.

 

I'm pretty sure I saw the gray-haired man who was in that room with McCandless with Frank, at least a couple of times. IIRC he denied him some loan or something. But I could be wrong, because I gave up understanding what's going on with Frank's business.

 

 

I'm wondering if some posters who had theories on Frank and his girlfriend somehow being involved with the redheaded kid might be right. 

 

When Ray left Frank's house after their discussion about his son and the rapist, Jordan came out of the shadows and the look they exchanged seemed to indicate the conversation affected her.  Also, the rapist turned about to be dark skinned, possibly Hispanic.  With the mother also being Hispanic, where did the red hair and pale skin come from?  I don't think they cast a redheaded kid randomly.

 

You know, seeing how much the rapist does NOT look like little Chad AT ALL and I, too, doubt a redheaded kid had been casted randomly, my mind went basically everywhere. I mean, this is a show where "what happened to Stan" is a turning point, by now (his wife made Frank suspecting Blake even more), so I started to wonder several things, even more randomly:

 

-Could the guy Ray killed actually be the rapist while the one arrested is innocent? He actually never admitted and seemd to be caught completely off-guard when Ray confronted him. Even though he conveniently said that he has brain condition and can't remember lots of things.

-Could it be that Ray ex-wife cheated on him and turn out to be pregnant where the rape occured? (and that's why Chad doesn't look like neither Ray or the alleged rapist).

-Could Blake be, in this case, her past-lover or the actual rapist (therefore, Chad's biological father)?

-If so, how did she meet him?

-Do I really care?

 

 

You know what this show needs?  More Birdman. At this point nothing is gonna save this shit stain of a season but I would at least like that plot point explored or have him be more prominent in the show. You know people actually knowing he exists and trying to track him down and shit. We haven't seen him since he shot Velcoro full of riot bullets.

 

I agree. I also agree that the two traumatized kids are somehow involved.

 

Not to mention the LOL-worthy, "These are contracts...with signatures all over them!" Well, yeah, they're contracts -- people, you know, SIGN THOSE THINGS.

 

hahah I laughed, too. I was waiting for a big revelation: "These are contracts, with signatures all over them..." and I was sure TK was about to add: "... and the signature is [Add whatever character would've worked as a cliffhanger]'s!"

Instead was just: "Guys look, contracts! With signatures!" :D Really?

[Cardie]

Maybe that's a lot of the problem with this season of True Detective, if Pizzolato is writing every episode by himself, there's no one to say, this makes no sense whatsoever, this dialogue is just first year creative writing student bad, etc.

 

He wrote every episode last season; this season he has had at least one co-writer credited. Suspicion is that the one director who directed every episode of S1, Cary Joji Fukunaga, was a major contributor to S1's success. (He and Pizzolatto had a falling out and he's absent this season.) I thought S1 was horribly written and carried only by the perfect casting and the direction. S2 shows what happens when those elements are lacking.

[henripootel]

And let's not forget that she found Vera - who she had only seen photos of - among the seemingly hundreds of people at the orgy.

While running for her life and drugged out of her mind, while Vera was all dolled up like a Robert Palmer girl.  Quite the feat, that, but this is after Ani professionally julienned a guy with what looked like a cheese knife.

The man on the bus said "a free-lancer?" So anyone can show up if they have the right $2000 a night look?

 

The logistics of the Orgy House bugged me too.  I'd think that part of the screening process for orgy girls would be a health check.  I mean I'm all about getting my freak on in full view of my weird mob partners but bumming a Valtrex off one later - awkward.

 

How did Frank rise to prominence in the thug community?  I'm expecting a scene where he has a sit down with some girl scouts who tell him 'here's the deal: we're moving thin mints in all your clubs.  Your cut: nothing'.  Frank silently fumes. 

[Primetimer]

Sarah D. Bunting is not a crackpot. She just thinks Caitlyn Jenner has everything it takes -- starting with much-needed goodwill -- to take over as True Detective's head baddie in charge.

Read the story

[teddysmom]

Could the guy Ray killed actually be the rapist while the one arrested is innocent? He actually never admitted and seemd to be caught completely off-guard when Ray confronted him. Even though he conveniently said that he has brain condition and can't remember lots of things.

-Could it be that Ray ex-wife cheated on him and turn out to be pregnant where the rape occured? (and that's why Chad doesn't look like neither Ray or the alleged rapist).

 

I thought they got a DNA match from the rapist that was caught and in jail.  If he was a serial rapist, saying he didn't remember Gena isn't that far fetched. 

 

I would think if she was cheating on him, the last thing she'd want to make public would be that neither Ray nor the rapist was the father.  Maybe it WAS the original Frank tip guy.  Maybe it was......Stan.  

 

Too soon? 

[mercurius]

 

And yet, despite these contrivances, I found it entertaining, mostly because they weren't discussing Stan or fertility issues.

 I know, right!? Who knew that fertility issues could be so dull?

[hendersonrocks]

The best thing about this episode was the absence of the lounge singer. Which is about as depressing as she is.

[blixie]

Aw I love Lera Lynn, and to be fair, her own stuff is a lot less glum for glum's sake, most of what she's signing on the show has been written by/with T. Bone Burnett. 

[shapeshifter]

I thought they got a DNA match from the rapist that was caught and in jail.

Right. So maybe it was a faked match from the corrupt matchers?

 

Aw I love Lera Lynn, and to be fair, her own stuff is a lot less glum for glum's sake, most of what she's signing on the show has been written by/with T. Bone Burnett. 

Yes, but maybe both better suited to upcoming the Twin Peaks remake?

[Penman61]

Things this episode taught me:

 

• Being closeted gives you super-sensitive night vision.
   
• Among dozens of wealthy sex-seeking men, there's not even one who wants a man-whore, even for a cuckold fantasy or a spicy three-way (Doesn't Pizzolatto know it's not gay if it's a three-way?).
   
• Stan, oh Stan, we hardly knew ye.  No, seriously, who the fuck were you?  

[MrsRafaelBarba]

Just realized Stan The Plot Device's widow, was played by Sprague Grayden.

 

 I barely recognized her last night.

[Bannon]

While running for her life and drugged out of her mind, while Vera was all dolled up like a Robert Palmer girl.  Quite the feat, that, but this is after Ani professionally julienned a guy with what looked like a cheese knife.

 

 

Good grief, what a lost opportunity, to not have Ani slicing up Russian henchmen, as we hear "Gonna haavve to face it, you're addiccttted to lovvve...." on the soundtrack! 

[Bannon]

 

Things this episode taught me:

 

• Being closeted gives you super-sensitive night vision.

   

 

It occurred to me that maybe Woodrugh is a closeted vampire as well, and maybe HBO is looking to reboot "True Blood", with a mash up with "True Detective" next season. Call it "Truly, What the F*ck?" or something.....

[Penman61]

Also, when VV made his "a literal Mexican stand-off" joke, we had a fleeting glimpse of how perfect he could have been had the role been much better conceived and written.

 

Also also, Frank's sit-off with Ray at the opening was just laughably incredible and clunky.  And then when pistol-packin' wifey slinked (slunked? slanked?) out of the bedroom afterward in her sexy kimono robe and teddy...

 

What do you call it when pulp turns to mush?

Edited July 27, 2015 by Penman61

[meep.meep]

David Morse is her dad. Flashback guy wasn't him. I don't think. If nothing else, flashback guy doesn't look like someone the uber-rich are going to take spirit advice from.

 

Am I the only person old enough to think that Flashback Guy looked just like Bob from Twin Peaks?

 

And anything they got from the sex party is going to be fruit of the poisoned tree, right?  They were breaking and entering, no warrants or identification.

[islandgal140]

Okay, so thinking about that little scene where the Catalyst guy and the Russian are talking in the office and Paul overhears them at the super secret sex party at the not so secure location, it does appear that Caspere did indeed give Frank's $5 mil to the corporation. They just entered into the books as something else. So Catalyst is in bed with the Russians, took Frank's money and cut him out

 

One scene that is playing over in my mind now is when Frank first approached this guy about WTH he money was. Dude act like he never got it, never heard of him, etc., and since he didn't have contracts, he didn't have a deal. Now we know he knew damn good and well that the corporation had his money, they just pocketed it. At the end of their 1st scene together, we got that rather pointed scene of Mr. Corporation saying that they weren't gangsters. LOL! Of course they are, they just go by a different name. I'm thinking he and/or the corporation is behind Caspere's death (with the help of the Vinci PD and the mayor) because he tried to blackmail them with what was on the harddrive. I bet Caspere had no intention of cheating Frank.

 

So now he is offering to cut Frank back in, which he shouldn't have been out anyway because they do have his money and they know they do, if he finds the harddrive. 

[Crim]

I took frequent breaks during the first part of the episode because it was numbingly boring.

 

The Frank vs Ray "with kids" parallel scenes would have worked in a longer show, but with so little time left, wtf, NP? And, while I didn't take Chad's behavior in that scene as necessarily relevant for his personality as a whole, I agree with those that found it funny/annoying that Ray would go to such lengths for this kid. On the whole, the storyline is sad, and Ray giving everything up like that would have been a powerful scene... if only the show weren't about something else. Too much family drama!

 

What NP didn't seem to take into consideration was that in season 1 there was only Marty's family, but having family or relationship drama for multiple characters... multiplies the number of such scenes, duh. The result is way too many of them, in every episode.

 

This is the ep where I decided this season of True Detective is awful, and won't be rescued by a stunning finale where all the threads are tied together.

ITA. With each episode, I found myself interested in less and less. Finally, this was rock bottom: I was only interested in Ani. Her story is cliched and predictable like everything else, but I like knives and I like Rachel McAdams in those party clothes (and in tank tops and in tight jeans... good decisions taken by the show there!). Yeah, I now watch the show just for what's essentially fanservice. I no longer care about the plot at all.

[DEM]

Okay, so thinking about that little scene where the Catalyst guy and the Russian are talking in the office and Paul overhears them at the super secret sex party at the not so secure location, it does appear that Caspere did indeed give Frank's $5 mil to the corporation. They just entered into the books as something else. So Catalyst is in bed with the Russians, took Frank's money and cut him out

 

I got something different from that exchange. I thought Osip the Russian was being cheeky or sarcastic.  They were talking about the security of Osip's investment, and McCandless (Catalyst guy) was trying to assure him that his money would be kept safe, to which Osip replied, "Like you did with Semyon."  McCandless corrected him by saying that Frank's problems were due to Caspere, not Catalyst.  (Which begs the question of why Osip would want to enter this deal if he had qualms, but idunnowhatever.)

 

On the subject of family drama and how it can fit into a limited-series detective mystery, look no further than Broadchurch series 1 (UK).  Even when I was frustrated with certain characters, it was by writer's design, not because the plot was overstuffed and meandering. The relationship stuff felt like it fit and had a point.

Edited July 27, 2015 by DEM

[WhiteStumbler]

Also, when VV made his "a literal Mexican stand-off" joke, we had a fleeting glimpse of how perfect he could have been had the role been much better conceived and written.

 

It is as if this season of TD wants to rely on background music and (brilliant) cinematography to paper over some sketchy plot elements, uneven acting, and (occasionally turgid) dialogue and make it deep and profound. S2 seems intent on heading into more pulp territory, while I feel like the noir elements are the parts that are really clicking. I have been hearing good things about Bloodline. Maybe I will check it out.

[scrb]

All stick women -- puh-leeze.  If you're going to put together an orgy, at least have the courtesy to cater to the tastes of your clients.  Some men like saggy tits.  Some men like a little cellulite.  Some men like a woman with something to grab onto.  Yeah, I know, I know, it's Hollyweird, but it just completely takes the heat out.  

Well remember, they've been surgically altered to be "top gear."

 

Plus judging by the age of a lot of the men, some of them probably have older wives back home.

[teddysmom]

Also, when VV made his "a literal Mexican stand-off" joke, we had a fleeting glimpse of how perfect he could have been had the role been much better conceived and written.

 

Seriously!!! Write to your cast's talents!  

[terrymct]

Is this the end for Ray and Junior? After all the exclamations of how the boy is all he has, is his reason for living, is the one good thing in his life, Ray bails after one uncomfortable court supervised sober visit with the kid? Will we ever find out if he is Ray's biological son or did this episode wrap up the Ray and Junior's storyline? Were all those redheads just red herrings?

 

 

Ray agreed to be out of his kid's life to make sure that his son never knows that his biological father was actually a rapist.  Ray was trying to protect Chad from the knowledge because he knows it would be devastating for the kid.

[33kaitykaity]

Well remember, they've been surgically altered to be "top gear."

 

Plus judging by the age of a lot of the men, some of them probably have older wives back home.

That may be true, but not everyone is turned on by "top gear."  People come in all shapes and sizes for a reason.  And it plays into the social stigma that women are only sexually viable at a certain age and size, which is pathetically sexist.  

[MrWhyt]

Am I the only person old enough to think that Flashback Guy looked just like Bob from Twin Peaks?

 

And anything they got from the sex party is going to be fruit of the poisoned tree, right?  They were breaking and entering, no warrants or identification.

I doubt that they would even try to enter anything they've gathered into evidence in court with those facts, plus Ani killed a guy.

 

That may be true, but not everyone is turned on by "top gear."  People come in all shapes and sizes for a reason. And it plays into the social stigma that women are only sexually viable at a certain age and size, which is pathetically sexist.  

These are supposed to be high priced hookers at an exclusive party for high rollers, I find it hard to believe any of them would resemble average housewives. It's sexist by nature.

 

edited:

If you had a line up of what you claimed are "Average" women and showed me a bunch of supermodels there'd be a problem. But if they're supposed to be high end escorts and they look like a suburban 3-kid housewife there'd be a problem too.

Edited July 27, 2015 by MrWhyt

[FemmyV]

Right. So maybe it was a faked match from the corrupt matchers?

 

Or maybe she was banging Blake and just happened to get raped by someone else.

Edited July 27, 2015 by FemmyV