S06.E03: No Apologies

[MyPeopleAreNordic]

I think Jenelle is just a very special and fucked up mix of sociopath, narcissist and borderline personality, as she exhibits traits of all three disorders.*

*All of my knowledge comes from reading mental health evaluations in a criminal defense context. Which basically means I don't know shit and am totally talking out of my ass right now.

In my totally non-professional opinion as an armchair psychologist who took three college psych classes and has a family member with narcissistic personality disorder & borderline personality disorder, I believe you are 100% correct. (Although we are both talking out of our asses, I still think we're likely onto something.)

I laughed at Leah & Jenelle's cats meeting at the litter box to discuss their PTSD from living with these idiots. Then I remembered how absolutely DISGUSTING Leah and Jenelle's houses must smell - you know neither of them regularly scoop or change cat litter. I bet you're hit with the overwhelming stench of dirty liter box when you enter either of their houses, but especially Leah's (Jenelle's homes do usually seem surprisingly clean....maybe Nathan likes to clean or something, cause we know cleaning would require Jenelle getting out of bed for longer than 5 minutes)

Edited July 29, 2015 by MyPeopleAreNordic

[NikSac]

i haven't actually seen this episode, so i may be wrong, but from reading the comments throughout this thread, it almost seemed to me that Leah thought/figured/assumed that no one would know it was close to midnight? i know she got a good edit in earlier seasons, so there could've been a thought that no one would know. with the comments here mentioning her saying "come eat your snack!" or whatever, sounds like she tried to make it seem like it was earlier, when it wasn't? i don't know, like i said, i haven't seen the episode, so i don't know for sure. just a thought i wanted to share :)

 

She didn't even call it a snack until after they ate though... first it was "your ravioli's ready" then later Ali asked for a snack and Leah said she'd just had one.  So either it was dinner or they were having a very, very late snack. (did I mention I've thought way too much about this?) It's entirely possible she was trying to make it sound better too.  If so she definitely missed the mark (or the editors/producers said "nope!").

Edited July 28, 2015 by NikSac

[TonAmi]

As a current psych major planning on going to graduate school, she certainly exhibits symptoms of multiple disorders, so comorbidity is certainly in effect, I think borderline (along with Farrah) is a given though. It becomes dangerous to do these diagnoses without actual assessment but like myself and others have said, she does exhibit some of the symptoms. I'm still 6-7 years away from practicing though!

[GreatKazu]

In that case, it's possible that Leah's kitty was trying to write "HELP ME".

Just like Regan in The Exorcist who had the words "help me" etched on her stomach. That demon clown doll from last season has possessed the cat.

[FozzyBear]

What does Borderline mean? Sometimes when people use it, it sounds like "self centered, irrational bitch", but I know it's more complicated than that. So what does Janeele do that looks borderline and what does that all mean?

Edited July 28, 2015 by FozzyBear

[TonAmi]

What does Borderline mean? Sometimes when people you it it sounds like "self centered, irrational bitch", but I know it's more complicated than that. So what does Janeele do that looks borderline and what does that all mean?

I'm at work on my phone so please forgive my somewhat rushed & cluttered answer but it's a combination of factors such as instability and intense difficulty in personal relationships (Barb, her list of ex friends, tumultuous romantic partners. These people vacillate between loving and hating you), impulsive/risky behavior (the stealing of the credit cards and running off with Kieffah. The drug use), heightened and seemingly inappropriate emotional responses (such as when Nathan was running late for her appointment and she couldn't fathom just going without him), fear of abandonment whether real or imagined (her constant need for a boy toy. The scene with Nathan making her late and her intense need for his support. Most of us would just simply leave without him but Jenelle cannot do this)

It's one of the more common diagnoses. Hope this helps and the "instability in personal relationships" would be the biggest take home w/ borderline.

Would also like to add that drama and crises seem to follow these folks throughout their lives. Mood swings are prevalent as well

[Empress1]

My ex's mom (I didn't know her; she's been dead for quite a while) had borderline personality disorder. She was formally diagnosed and institutionalized a few times. I pray Jenelle doesn't have it because it's a doozy, and God help her kids.

 

For example, my sense of humor is to tease - tossing jabs back and forth, that kind of thing. Playing the dozens. Shortly after we met, Ex and I were texting and I made a sarcastic comment. He responded with really hurt feelings, and I realized he didn't know I was joking. He could pick up on teasing face to face or voice to voice because he could read and hear my cues, but via text those cues weren't there so he thought I was intentionally saying mean things to hurt him. And he assumed that because he was conditioned to take mean comments at face value, because his mother used to say horrible things to him and his siblings. The impulsive behavior that TonAmi mentions manifested in promiscuity with her; she was a single parent (Ex's dad died suddenly when Ex was a kid) and was apparently sleeping around with half the neighborhood - they'd move and it would start all over. She became REALLY clingy when he left for college (that classic "I hate you! Don't leave me!" thing).

 

Ex is a wonderful person - kind, loving, sensitive (maybe moreso than others), funny, professionally successful, intelligent. But he's been in therapy on and off for many years to deal with the scars his BPD mother left, including spending most of his 20s literally fearing women because the first woman he ever met was such a monster. So if Jenelle really does have BPD, I hope there's still some MTV money left for therapy when those boys get older.

 

I do think some of Jenelle's behavior is just plain old drama queen and boy craziness. I think she's the type to always put her guy first. Actually it's good that she has sons because she'd probably be really competitive with daughters.

[BitterApple]

Wow, reading about BPD makes me fear for Kaiser. We already know Jenelle could give two shits about Jace, so he's reasonably safe with Barb, but Kaiser is stuck with his mother until she gets bored with him. It's awful to say, but for his sake I hope the sooner the better.

[lovesnark]

I just had a disturbing thought. I'm heading over to the where the wedding is going to be (a couple hours away) Thursday afternoon and don't know if the house I rented for he weekend gets MTV on the satellite package. I'll be so damn bummed if I can't watch and get my snark on to help me make it through the crazy weekend. I'll take my laptop and hotspot so I can potentially watch online if I need to. 

[Fosca]

Did Javi really say he couldn't imagine waking up without Lincoln and Issac?

While a sweet sentiment, why exactly did he pick a career in the military?

I'm not sure he picked it himself; it seemed like Kail was harping on him joining the military ("for the benefits") from the moment she met him.

As was said before, I really think Kail thought he'd be deployed and she could live with the kids in her own little fiefdom with her MTV money and Javi's benefits, no need for compromise with anyone else.

Edited July 28, 2015 by Fosca

[cheatincheetos]

I laughed at Leah & Jenelle's cats meeting at the liter box to discuss their PTSD from living with these idiots. Then I remembered how absolutely DISGUSTING Leah and Jenelle's houses must smell - you know neither of them regularly scoop or change cat liter. I bet you're hit with the overwhelming stench of dirty liter box when you enter either of their houses, but especially Leah's (Jenelle's homes do usually seem surprisingly clean....maybe Nathan likes to clean or something, cause we know cleaning would require Jenelle getting out of bed for longer than 5 minutes)

 

It's possible that Jenelle's home is cleaner than Leah's because she moves often and burns through her TM2 check taking frequent vacations. Plus she probably spends a lot of money on hotel rooms because she storms off and spends the night away from Nathan after every little squabble. I don't know if Nathan cleans house...he seems to spend too much time already just on primping for the mirror. There is probably a part of the bathroom kept clean because it serves as background for the selfie studio.

I'm at work on my phone so please forgive my somewhat rushed & cluttered answer but it's a combination of factors such as instability and intense  seemingly inappropriate emotional responses (such as when Nathan was running late for her appointment and she couldn't fathom just going without him), fear of abandonment whether real or imagined (her constant need for a boy toy. The scene with Nathan making her late and her intense need for his support. Most of us would just simply leave without him but Jenelle cannot do this)

 

"Im asking for your support-ah! I'm begging you for your support!"

*Nathan hands her the unwashed athletic supporter from his webcam show*

I don't understand why any of these girls rush to have a second baby. It's not like they're forty with screaming biological clocks. Why not give the relationship a few years to work and then consider having another child?

http://www.urbandictionary.com/define.php?term=Trap+Baby

 

Also not to excuse but I don't think it's entirely coincidence that these moms keep being from parts of the country that place strong expectations on marrying and having children at a young age (statistically also tied to a higher divorce rate).

Edited July 28, 2015 by cheatincheetos

[TonAmi]

^LOL. Covered in whipped cream no doubt.

[lezlers]

The mother of my ex's daughter had BPD.  It was scary.  She'd go from calling him and screaming at him on the phone, to calling him begging him to come over and sleep with her (she had ZERO respect for our relationship, despite the fact that we had been engaged and living together for 3 years.)  She was often drunk or high and their poor daughter had a host of psychological issues thanks to her mother's crazy.  I feel for the children of anyone with BPD.  

[Mkay]

I haven't been through all the posts so I don't know if this was posted yet.  If so, I apologize.  

 

Dang Jenelle, really? https://www.facebook.com/LeahMesserAndJeremyCalvertFanpage/photos/a.674832755874476.1073741843.313456958678726/1156135624410851/?type=1&theater

[lovesnark]

I haven't been through all the posts so I don't know if this was posted yet.  If so, I apologize.  

 

Dang Jenelle, really? https://www.facebook.com/LeahMesserAndJeremyCalvertFanpage/photos/a.674832755874476.1073741843.313456958678726/1156135624410851/?type=1&theater

Hey, she spent good MTV money on those knockers! Keeping it classy, as usual. I wonder if she's wearing her more classier court heels?

[BitterApple]

I hate to say this, but fake tits aside, Jenelle cleans up really well. Ditto for Leah, she actually looks much healthier with a few more pounds on her frame.

[Shelby]

I only have a Psych 101 level of knowledge about NPD (and a bit of experience with very brief but exhausting friendship with a woman who suffered from it), but it seems like it would be just as bad or worse for a child to be exposed to than BPD.

IIRC, it's the least treatable of personality disorders, because the person who suffers from it never sees that they have a problem. It's always everyone else who has the problem to them. They're victims, martyrs, and place the blame squarely on everyone else.

[Shelby]

I wish there was a breakdown of all the Teen Moms and their particular personality disorders available.

I'm too tired/lazy/uninterested to look, but what are Dr. Drew's qualifications? Is he a Psychiatrist, or at least a Psychologist?

He does these girls such a disservice, patting them on the back for things any moron would do, and never calling them out on anything.

[TonAmi]

Thankfully, borderline is treatable and many do recover and go on to lead normal lives and mend relationships (I know of one such family). Wikipedia has some nice explanations of treatment if anyone's interested.

You're thinking of narcissistic, Shelby. Definitely very tricky stuff for the therapist to handle (all 10 of the different disorders are though).

Regardless of what Jenelle's got going on, I do think her relationship with Barb is mendable. Would also echo what others have said that the scenes of her and Jace playing brighten up the episodes!

[NikSac]

Wow, I didn't even recognize Leah in that pic! 

[GreatKazu]

How would a therapist treat someone who is NPD? First of all, how would one with NPD even make that step to the therapist since their attitude is, everyone else has a problem? Jenelle gives me a friggin' headache. I can't imagine having to deal with her on a therapeutic level. Thanks to you all for the information you provide. It is an eye-opener.

[ChocolateAddict]

Currently doing a psych unit at uni (not planning on being a psychiatrist though) so this is my not-qualified-but-I-like-to-think-so view.  I think it is clear to most people that Jenelle's personality falls outside the normal distribution and in at least some aspects, would certainly be in the very top or very bottom of the continuum.  Using the Five Factor Model I imagine that she would get

-a low score for openness = she isn't interested in others or new experiences

-a low score for conscientiousness =she doesn't give a damn about the rules or what anyone else thinks

-a mid to low score for extroversion = being an extrovert isn't about being loud, it is about sharing thoughts, being outgoing and engaging 

-a low score for agreeableness = this one writes itself 

-a high score for neuroticism = she is angry, loud, impulsive and falls into "depressions" 

I think that Jenelle is scary because she is not only emotionless but also vindictive.  Look at the way she treated Barb in the last episode, saying that she wanted to completely control where, where and how Barb would see Jace plus the upcoming argument with Nathan.  When she gets angry, she doesn't have any ability to empathize or understand the other perspective and when she is insulted, her instinct is revenge.  

BTW, this is all written in the spirit of armchair observation as opposed to actual, educated opinion, lol. 

Edited July 29, 2015 by ChocolateAddict

[anarchyangel84]

I have a little bit of experience in Psychology. I don't think anyone can really diagnose her just by watching her on TV. There are symptoms we may not see & a lot of disorders have a lot of the same symptoms. Just from what I've seen though, I don't see it being Narcissistic Personality Disorder. I don't really think it's BPD either, though she has a few BPD symptoms. I don't think it's anything that severe. She has a few symptoms of Bipolar- but I can't tell for sure. I could be totally wrong here, I don't know. I do know that when you see someone acting a certain way, it's easy to blame it on some kind of mental health issue. But the truth is, some people are just that way. The way she was raised probably didn't help her. She has some issues- anger, addiction, and she becomes way too dependent on the guys she dates. She depends on them for her happiness. That is why I don't think she should EVER get Jace full time. Most women will put their kids first. Not Jenelle. She NEEDS a man. When she was living with Barb and Jace, she spent more time looking for a boyfriend than with Jace. This doesn't mean she has a fear of abandonment. She would want to keep Nathan- but if he would leave her, it wouldn't take her long to find another boyfriend.

Personally, I can't STAND the bitch. She doesn't deserve to be on Teen Mom and she doesn't deserve Jace. She deserves to be punched in her face.

[cheatincheetos]

 

Did Nathan say "god given vagina" during their fight? Because, wut?

Were it not for Jenelle's Godgiven ladyparts, there would be no Kaiser Roll and no anchor baby to keep Nipples on the TM2 payroll. Maybe that was what he meant to say.

[mittsigirl]

Nathan just scares me-reminds me of the crazy man in The Shining!

[Kellyee]

 

Nathan just scares me-reminds me of the crazy man in The Shining!

 

Nathan actually concerns me a lot more than Adam does. If one of Adam's kids got hurt, it would be because he did something stupid or was neglecting their safety, but I don't really think he would hurt them on purpose. He does seem to have some genuine affection for Aubree, even though he's totally messed up and irresponsible.

 

With Nathan, I wouldn't be totally surprised if he one day hurt Kaiser or Jace on purpose. He just seems to have that kind of anger in him. I wouldn't put it past him to either beat one of the kids really bad in a fit of rage, or hurt one them on purpose to stick it to Jenelle. As ridiculous as Jenelle is, I think she does love her kids. She's totally unfit and irresponsible, but I don't get the feeling that she doesn't love Jace. Nathan seems completely detached from any emotion except anger.

[ghoulina]

I haven't been through all the posts so I don't know if this was posted yet.  If so, I apologize. 

Dang Jenelle, really? https://www.facebook...?type=1

 

Jenelle looks really stoned, and like she's leaning on Kail for support. 

 

Leah's forced smile is always terrifying. 

 

Nathan actually concerns me a lot more than Adam does. If one of Adam's kids got hurt, it would be because he did something stupid or was neglecting their safety, but I don't really think he would hurt them on purpose.

 

Didn't the viewers catch him pinching her on camera on purpose once? To try and get her to shut up or something? I get what you're saying about Nathan, he seems very ragey. Whereas Adumb seems a bit too lazy to work up a good rage. However, Adumb is very shady and manipulative. I can see him being calm, but trying to get little pinches and slaps in where he can. Also, he just flat out is being emotionally abusive to his daughter by grilling her about his other kid, her mom, etc. Nevermind all the games he plays with coming to see her. 

[Tatum]

Didn't the viewers catch him pinching her on camera on purpose once? To try and get her to shut up or something? I get what you're saying about Nathan, he seems very ragey. Whereas Adumb seems a bit too lazy to work up a good rage. However, Adumb is very shady and manipulative. I can see him being calm, but trying to get little pinches and slaps in where he can. Also, he just flat out is being emotionally abusive to his daughter by grilling her about his other kid, her mom, etc. Nevermind all the games he plays with coming to see her. 

 

It's really hard to "rank" the parents (other than the obvious ones, like clearly Chelsea > Adam), because all the bad parents are damaging in their own ways, with the effects of their parenting not always being present until years later. Aubrey could potentially be more affected down the road by her father's emotional detachment to her than Jace may be by an isolated incident of physical abuse with Nathan (hopefully this is and continues to be purely theoretical).

 

I mean really, Adam, Jenelle, Nathan, Leah, and Kail are all kind of shitty parents in one way or another, but in a way that's apples and oranges when compared to each other. So much depends on outside influences and the individual personality of the kid. All we can hope for is that these are all really resilient kids.

[Shelby]

Nathan actually concerns me a lot more than Adam does. If one of Adam's kids got hurt, it would be because he did something stupid or was neglecting their safety, but I don't really think he would hurt them on purpose. He does seem to have some genuine affection for Aubree, even though he's totally messed up and irresponsible.

 

With Nathan, I wouldn't be totally surprised if he one day hurt Kaiser or Jace on purpose. He just seems to have that kind of anger in him. I wouldn't put it past him to either beat one of the kids really bad in a fit of rage, or hurt one them on purpose to stick it to Jenelle. As ridiculous as Jenelle is, I think she does love her kids. She's totally unfit and irresponsible, but I don't get the feeling that she doesn't love Jace. Nathan seems completely detached from any emotion except anger.

 

I wouldn't be surprised if it is discovered that Nathan is a serial killer.  Not even a little.

Edited July 29, 2015 by Shelby

[Kellyee]

 

Aubrey could potentially be more affected down the road by her father's emotional detachment to her than Jace may be by an isolated incident of physical abuse with Nathan (hopefully this is and continues to be purely theoretical).

 

Jace is completely screwed by his entire environment. Even Barb is a yeller who has threatened, on camera, to make Jace go live somewhere else if he doesn't behave. Aubree has an awful father, and a mother who wants too much to be her friend, but her mom is at least loving and parenting and she has very nice grandparents. Aubree may end up pregnant at 16, but her odds of ending up in jail some day remain low. Jace is definitely going to jail some day.

[JocelynCavanaugh]

I wouldn't be surprised if it was discovered that Nathan was a serial killer.  Not even a little.

 

My only, and I mean only, reservation about this is that serial killers have to be at least marginally intelligent to get away with the "serial" part of the killing. Nathan's good for two, three tops, assuming at least one was overseas Jack Reacher style. No way that dude is sly or level-headed enough to hide bodies effectively.

Edited July 29, 2015 by JocelynCavanaugh

[Tatum]

Jace is completely screwed by his entire environment. Even Barb is a yeller who has threatened, on camera, to make Jace go live somewhere else if he doesn't behave. Aubree has an awful father, and a mother who wants too much to be her friend, but her mom is at least loving and parenting and she has very nice grandparents. Aubree may end up pregnant at 16, but her odds of ending up in jail some day remain low. Jace is definitely going to jail some day.

 

I agree that Jace got dealt a shittier hand in life than Aubree did but I don't think it's out of the realm of possibility that he can still rise above it. Some people do overcome terrible childhoods.

[BitterApple]

I agree that Jace got dealt a shittier hand in life than Aubree did but I don't think it's out of the realm of possibility that he can still rise above it. Some people do overcome terrible childhoods.

I think if Jace can stay doing sports and extra-curricular activities where he's exposed to positive male role models, he might be okay. However I'm worried because his behavioral issues seem to be escalating. Barb really needs to have him in therapy. Once a kid gets labeled a "screw-up" it tends to stick and it affects how he's treated by his teachers and peers.

[smhjess]

Jenelle and Nathan both terrify me with their dead eyes.  They have no human feelings.  I see where the comment about him being a serial killer comes from  They are the worst.  Adam is a pretty awful person who is lucky he hasn't killed anyone driving.  I do think he enjoys having kids and has some real feelings for the girls when it is convenient for him, but I am not getting the potential for rage there.  I can see Jenelle leaving a kid in the car and either Jenelle or Nathan beating one of the kids.  

[Tatum]

 

Barb really needs to have him in therapy

 

I agree with this but I don't think it's going to happen. I wish MTV would spring for a real psychologist on staff who could counsel some of these participants. If a professional explained to Barbara that Jace would benefit from therapy due to being all but abandoned by his selfish psychotic mother- and recommended a local one- she might go for it, but I don't think it would occur to her to do that herself and I don't think she'd want to research all the options herself. It gets pretty overwhelming, and although I don't have much personal experience with therapy, I understand the patient and the provider don't always click which can discourage the patient from continuing to seek therapy.

 

I really, really wish Leah and Kail would consider therapy- by someone way more credible than Drew or whatever marriage counselor the girls find in the yellow pages. I honestly think Jenelle is a lost cause, but Leah and Kail could both improve with therapy.

[SlothLoveChunk]

Thankfully, borderline is treatable and many do recover and go on to lead normal lives and mend relationships (I know of one such family). Wikipedia has some nice explanations of treatment if anyone's interested.

You're thinking of narcissistic, Shelby. Definitely very tricky stuff for the therapist to handle (all 10 of the different disorders are though).

Regardless of what Jenelle's got going on, I do think her relationship with Barb is mendable. Would also echo what others have said that the scenes of her and Jace playing brighten up the episodes!

 

Poster here who's been diagnosed with Borderline Personality Disorder.  I was diagnosed in my early 20's after an emotional childhood and MANY of the same behaviors that Jenelle exhibits.  The "I Hate You, Don't Leave Me!" book tagline is a good summation of BPD.  When I was in my early 20's I displayed pretty textbook BPD behavior.  Substance abuse, promiscuity, intense unstable interpersonal relationships, feelings of real or perceived abandonment, ALWAYS having to be attached to a man, and cutting.  I either loved someone or hated them.  There was no in between, although the pendulum could swing instantly in either direction for the smallest thing.  Oddly enough, I graduated college and always held stable jobs.

Jenelle most certainly displays classic BPD symptoms, but the coldness in her is chilling and not exactly a BPD symptom.  Like other armchair psychiatrists have stated, she's most likely got multiple diagnoses.

 

On the plus side, intense Dialectical Behavior Therapy and counseling helped me get through my bad spots and I'm now a happily married woman with a 2 year old girl, and have a good career.  I definitely have times every few years or so where I can feel myself reverting into old habits, but overall I think I've "overcome" BPD and I'm confident my child will grow up with a loving, caring mom.

 

I shudder when I think about Jace and Kaiser's futures.  Lord help them.

Edited July 29, 2015 by SlothLoveChunk

[TonAmi]

Poster here who's been diagnosed with Borderline Personality Disorder. I was diagnosed in my early 20's after an emotional childhood and MANY of the same behaviors that Jenelle exhibits. The "I Hate You, Don't Leave Me!" book tagline is a good summation of BPD. When I was in my early 20's I displayed pretty textbook BPD behavior. Substance abuse, promiscuity, intense unstable interpersonal relationships, feelings of real or perceived abandonment, ALWAYS having to be attached to a man, and cutting. I either loved someone or hated them. There was no in between, although the pendulum could swing instantly in either direction for the smallest thing. Oddly enough, I graduated college and always held stable jobs.

Jenelle most certainly displays classic BPD symptoms, but the coldness in her is chilling and not exactly a BPD symptom. Like other armchair psychiatrists have stated, she's most likely got multiple diagnoses.

On the plus side, intense Dialectical Behavior Therapy and counseling helped me get through my bad spots and I'm now a happily married woman with a 2 year old girl, and have a good career. I definitely have times every few years or so where I can feel myself reverting into old habits, but overall I think I've "overcome" BPD and I'm confident my child will grow up with a loving, caring mom.

I shudder when I think about Jace and Kaiser's futures. Lord help them.

Good for you. I'm so, so glad everything's worked out for you. Truly. :)

[cheatincheetos]

Nathan just scares me-reminds me of the crazy man in The Shining!"

*Hack hack hack crash*

"Heerrrrrrrrrre's Nipples!"

Edited July 29, 2015 by cheatincheetos

[GreatKazu]

Slothlovechunk, glad to read you received help and are very happy in life. If I may ask, how was it you overcame all of those issues? What tools were you given and what did you have to do in order to move past these behaviors? I hope I asked that correctly.

 

 

I could be totally wrong here, I don't know. I do know that when you see someone acting a certain way, it's easy to blame it on some kind of mental health issue. But the truth is, some people are just that way.

I agree that there are some people who are what they are. I also believe in the case of Jenelle, she truly has something mentally off about her. There is being an asshole, and there is being Jenelle. I have been an asshole at times, but I can also realize when I have been an asshole and to feel remorse for it as well as apologize for my behavior. Jenelle doesn't seem to have any feelings whatsoever except when she perceives some kind of hurt that has been inflicted upon her. Jenelle is dead behind those eyes. She barely seemed to show any emotion when she gave birth. Twice. That is scary shit. Nipples is no different. The only emotions these two seem to emote, is anger. The times we have watched these two be happy, those times have been far and few in between.

[Shelby]

 

 

Jenelle doesn't seem to have any feelings whatsoever except when she perceives some kind of hurt that has been inflicted upon her. Jenelle is dead behind those eyes. She barely seemed to show any emotion when she gave birth. Twice. That is scary shit. Nipples is no different. The only emotions these two seem to emote, is anger. The times we have watched these two be happy, those times have been far and few in between.

Jenelle really is emotionless.  We've never seen her truly happy about anything that I can recall.

 

I don't see her enjoying being intimate.  I don't even see her faking it, she's not human enough to know what an appropriate response is.  She must either just lie there, or mimic something she's seen in a pornographic movie.

Edited July 29, 2015 by Shelby

[Darknight]

Jace is completely screwed by his entire environment. Even Barb is a yeller who has threatened, on camera, to make Jace go live somewhere else if he doesn't behave. Aubree has an awful father, and a mother who wants too much to be her friend, but her mom is at least loving and parenting and she has very nice grandparents. Aubree may end up pregnant at 16, but her odds of ending up in jail some day remain low. Jace is definitely going to jail some day.

Which would mean both kids repeated the cycle. Jace, gosh I hope he turns out semi okay. At least graduates high school and thanks his mom Barb for raising him. Aubrey I could see as a teen mom(I hope not). Chelsea is her friend and not a parent. Aubrey is going to walk all over her if Chelsea doesn't stop being her friend.

Isn't bpd often misdiagnosed as bipolar disorder? How would you treat bpd? I can't see Jenelle doing any long term therapy. It's all Barbs fault or someone else's fault she's like this.

Poster here who's been diagnosed with Borderline Personality Disorder. I was diagnosed in my early 20's after an emotional childhood and MANY of the same behaviors that Jenelle exhibits. The "I Hate You, Don't Leave Me!" book tagline is a good summation of BPD. When I was in my early 20's I displayed pretty textbook BPD behavior. Substance abuse, promiscuity, intense unstable interpersonal relationships, feelings of real or perceived abandonment, ALWAYS having to be attached to a man, and cutting. I either loved someone or hated them. There was no in between, although the pendulum could swing instantly in either direction for the smallest thing. Oddly enough, I graduated college and always held stable jobs.

Jenelle most certainly displays classic BPD symptoms, but the coldness in her is chilling and not exactly a BPD symptom. Like other armchair psychiatrists have stated, she's most likely got multiple diagnoses.

On the plus side, intense Dialectical Behavior Therapy and counseling helped me get through my bad spots and I'm now a happily married woman with a 2 year old girl, and have a good career. I definitely have times every few years or so where I can feel myself reverting into old habits, but overall I think I've "overcome" BPD and I'm confident my child will grow up with a loving, caring mom.

I shudder when I think about Jace and Kaiser's futures. Lord help them.

Sorry if this is personal you don't have to answer. But did you take any meds in addition to therapy? How did you recognize you had a problem? How's your relationship with your 2 yo and spouse?

I think if Jace can stay doing sports and extra-curricular activities where he's exposed to positive male role models, he might be okay. However I'm worried because his behavioral issues seem to be escalating. Barb really needs to have him in therapy. Once a kid gets labeled a "screw-up" it tends to stick and it affects how he's treated by his teachers and peers.

Barbs need to keep Jenelle away from him. I hope Jaces school recommends something. I can't believe MTV sits back and watch this go on. Jace is going to be fucked up. I could totally see him following Jenelle's path on the 10 year update

[Joe Jitsu913]

Jace worries me for numerous reasons. His behavioral issues along with wetting the bed are concerning. Add in having a teen "mother" like Jenelle. I would not be surprised to hear Jace getting arrested later on in life. I hope not as he seems like a sweet little boy, but his upbringing reminds me of Ted Bundy and Aileen Wuornos both of whom were born to teen moms and raised by dysfunctional grandparents.

[lovesnark]

In the preview for tomorrow's episode, Barb is trying (but not succeeding) to talk to Jenelle about Jace's behavioral problems that always happen after he comes home from spending the weekend with the beast that gave birth to him. My suspicion is that Jenelle harps on him about living with her and calling her mom (when she's not ignoring him) and  he's a nervous wreck the entire time he's there. He's a little boy and wants to please everyone. Poor kid doesn't want to live with Jenelle and Nipples but he's afraid to say so because she'll rage out and relentlessly question  him about it. He loves Barb and she's his mom but Jenelle undermines that at every turn and it confuses the hell out of him. I bet most of his behavioral stuff would gradually go away if he didn't have to deal with Jenelle and have that pressure put on him anymore. Just let the poor little guy grow up with Barb and leave him alone. 

[Rebecca]

Re-watching. Adam's friend at the restaurant looked like a 57 year old who had lead a rough life.

 

I  think Jenelle has traits of a narcissistic sociopath, as well as, traits of borderline personality disorder. One of my minors was abnormal psych, she'd make for an interesting case study.

Edited July 30, 2015 by Rebecca

[ChocolateAddict]

This is the promo about Jace's behaviour after being with his mother. 

 

Barb is trying to be calm and polite while she explains that Jace needs more stability in his life because issues are coming up.  IMO, Barb is doing the right thing in attempting to have a conversation with Jenelle about how to better manage Jace's behaviour but classic Jenelle makes it all about her.  Jenelle can't live with Jace calling Barb "mom" twice, she would rather crush his heart.  I seriously doubt that Jace is the perfect angel at Jenelle's place because he just loves, loves, loves being there.  He seems to be scared of Nathan and unlike most weekend parents, Jenelle isn't much fun.  Note to Jenelle: Jace isn't confused about where he lives and who loves him.  You are.  

[TonAmi]

Re-watching. Adam's friend at the restaurant looked like a 57 year old who had lead a rough life.

Agreed. He looked even worse in the gym scene from the sneak peek.

[ghoulina]

LOL, I love in the promo how Jenelle is like, "No! We haven't fought in awhile". What's awhile? Last week when you were mad Nathan didn't defend you to the dude you wished combat death upon? And you were bitching about it to Tori on the phone? And then you had a big struggle about going to the lawyer-not going to the lawyer? That wasn't a fight? Okay then. 

 

Also, you are not THE mom. You provided a womb for 9 months. That is all. 

 

I agree with the poster upthread who said Jace just wants to please everyone. That's the biggest issue here. He feels conflicted and it's making him very nervous. I'm sure he has a lot of fun at Jenelle's. It's the weekend, everyone's "off work" (ha!) and has fun activities planned. And yea, I'm sure he behaves pretty well over there - not only because he may be scared of Nathan, but also because it's not his usual environment. But I don't like all this asking him over and over where he wants to live and making him feel guilty about things. He's five! 

[ktwo]

Agreed. He looked even worse in the gym scene from the sneak peek.

So true. I just had dinner with my good friend and her boyfriend who is in his 50s and recovering from surgery and chemo for laryngeal cancer. Adam's friend looks worse than he does.

[lovesnark]

This is the promo about Jace's behaviour after being with his mother. 

 

Barb is trying to be calm and polite while she explains that Jace needs more stability in his life because issues are coming up.  IMO, Barb is doing the right thing in attempting to have a conversation with Jenelle about how to better manage Jace's behaviour but classic Jenelle makes it all about her.  Jenelle can't live with Jace calling Barb "mom" twice, she would rather crush his heart.  I seriously doubt that Jace is the perfect angel at Jenelle's place because he just loves, loves, loves being there.  He seems to be scared of Nathan and unlike most weekend parents, Jenelle isn't much fun.  Note to Jenelle: Jace isn't confused about where he lives and who loves him.  You are.  

This.  She is so jealous that Jace loves Barb and calls her mom. Not because it hurts her feelings, because it makes her look bad and reinforces what a piece of shit and miserable failure she is as a mother. Instead of scolding Jace for calling Barb mom, she should either ignore it or let him  know how great it is that he has a grandma who loves him to pieces.

[lovesnark]

Watching that clip again just infuriates me. Notice the womb says she 'caught' Jace calling Barb mom twice when she was showing Barb around. That tells me that Jace has hell to pay every time he refers to Barb as mom when he's at their house. Bitch probably punishes him. Her yelling that Barb needs to just accept that she's MOM (because, you know, poor Jenelle never gets to talk) is just too ridiculous for words. Call yourself whatever you want, Jenelle. You're nothing more than the uterus that housed that boy for 9 months.

 

Please, Barb. Change your phone number and get a no contact order.