Star Wars: The Force Awakens (2015)

[anna0852]

I was wondering the same thing. I don't think it was ever said. I'm just using marriage more a a shorthand here than anything else.

[SNeaker]

They never said it for sure, My head canon until they either confirm/deny is that they did get married and were still married as of this movie, just separated and estranged. 

 

 

But Luke was starting with a blank slate. He could shape the Order how he chose. And he already disagreed strongly with the No Attachment rule (which is really the basis of the celibacy rule) when he left his training to save his friends, then later chose to have faith in his father rather than kill him as the old Masters wanted. I never really expected Luke to remake the New Jedi like the old. It would have been a big mistake anyway. The old Jedi got a lot of things wrong and were, in many ways, the architect of their own doom.

 

I agree. I wouldn't assume Luke would keep that rule when starting a new Jedi order. I don't think it was that aspect that made people assume Rey would be Solo rather than Skywalker when the photos/trailer first came out -- it was simply that Leia had a love interest while Luke had none at the end of the original trilogy, so it stood to reason she and Han would have kids, and here is a woman in the trailer with that same Carrie/Natalie look.

Edited December 21, 2015 by SNeaker

[InsertWordHere]

I think her ease with the Falcon points to her being theirs. 

And her understanding of Chewie. I doubt there were any wookiees hanging out on Jakku, so where did she gain an understanding of the language? Someone correct me if I'm wrong, but the only people who understood him in the OT were people who had spent a significant amount of time with him. If she was around him as a young child, when language skills are developed, it could easily explain how she immediately understood him. Plus, Chewie likes her. 

Did they actually say that Han and Leia were married? Or is everyone just assuming that because they had a kid? She's still Leia Organa, so she never changed her name. Not that that necessarily means anything, but I was just wondering.

No, they didn't say either way. I would actually be cool with never knowing if they married or not, but I suspect they did. 

[VCRTracking]

Again, if she hadn't had the visions when she touched the lightsaber I would have been really going "WTF?" but everything she had seen makes me think she was a child trained in the Jedi ways before being left on Jakku and she was just starting to memory or by instinct knew what to do.

[anna0852]

Again, if she hadn't had the visions when she touched the lightsaber I would have been really going "WTF?" but everything she had seen makes me think she was a child trained in the Jedi ways before being left on Jakku and she was just starting to memory or by instinct knew what to do.

That makes sense. Especially when you factor in that the Force can be used to tamper with memories. Her early childhood might have been suppressed by whomever found her and took her to Jakku. Or it was traumatic enough that her subconscious suppressed those memories.

 

I don't think Luke is the one who took to Jakku. Leaving her there screaming with people who clearly don't care is something he would have never done. I think she was brought there by someone we haven't met yet. And if she is a Skywalker or Solo child, she is believed dead in whatever happened with Kylo snapped. It would explain why a daughter is never mentioned when Han and Leia are talking about their son. And if she is a Solo child and is believed dead at her brother's hand, it would explain why Han has written Kylo off. One child dead at the hand of the other. Leia *not* writing him off could be what led to their relationship breaking up.

[Brn2bwild]

I just had a trippy thought: what if the major twist is that Rey was the one who went rogue and killed a bunch of people and had to have her memory wiped/be sent away for her own safety and the safety of others?  Like, she's so friggin' powerful, even at age 5, she would have dominated the Force.  Maybe that's why Han and Leia were afraid to tell her who she really was, or why Luke looked apprehensive.*

 

* To me, he didn't look pissed, just concerned and/or shocked.  I also saw tears in his eyes, so that tells me Rey is either his daughter or someone else near and dear to him. 

[JessePinkman]

I don't see how Rey could be Han and Leia's kid. Are we supposing they...forgot about her? Or simply didn't mention her in all the talk of their other child? I think it's as cut and dry that Han and Leia only had one kid.

[TVSpectator]

Is Yoda still alive?

 

Didn't Yoda died in Empire and his force ghost came back in ROTJ?

[SNeaker]

I don't see how Rey could be Han and Leia's kid. Are we supposing they...forgot about her? Or simply didn't mention her in all the talk of their other child? I think it's as cut and dry that Han and Leia only had one kid.

 

I could see how if they had lost another child when she was young -- and especially if Ben were directly or indirectly responsible --  it would be too painful to even discuss. She's gone (in their minds) but Ben can still be "saved," so that's what they discuss.

 

Yoda died in Jedi.

[Peace 47]

I think some causal fan might just as confused as why Han and Leia's kid is named Ben as they would be if be if he was named Bail.

That would be me. I had no idea why he was named Ben, but I didn't dwell on it. As soon as Han stepped out on the causeway, I knew he was dead, and so I was caught up in how that was going to go down.

I saw the movie tonight because I got a free ticket to it, even though I'm not sure I've ever seen any prior Star Wars movie all the way through. (Maybe the original a thousand years ago?) But the whole of the stories have seeped into my consciousness through various and numerous pop culture references, and so I am familiar with all of the major story beats.

All that said about being a non-fan, I thought it was an extraordinarily well-done film. I actually like the beginning to middle a little more than the end, just because the early story beats seemed kind of like "scrappy, humorous action" that was exciting and fun before the story re-centered itself on one of betrayal and legacy (which is sort of a downer). If there was one weak spot, I thought it was Ren. Someone upthread called him emo, and that's not a bad description. I was super-bummed that Han kicked it mostly because I had quickly grown attached to the little makeshift family of Han, Finn, Rey, BB-8, Chewy and Leia, and so I guess that made me dislike Ren all the more, lol.

I loved Rey. I kept thinking that J.J. Abrahms channeled the legacy of Sydney Bristow nicely here. Rey was principled and kind and tough and smart. It was nice to see a female action star (and let's see the toy companies not make an action figure for her, a la the Black Widow situation). I loved Finn and Poe, too. They had a great instant chemistry with each other, such that when they hugged upon seeing each other again, I really felt the joy of that reunion. BB-8 was a great invention, even though it made R2-D2 seem a little stodgy in comparison. And I vote "like" on the Grunberg cameo: I like to know I'm watching a J.J. production. And the end was powerful and well-done.

[Rick Kitchen]

Didn't Yoda died in Empire and his force ghost came back in ROTJ?

 

Oh, yeah, that's right.

[blackwing]

I am fully confident that Kylo Ren will be redeemed. One of the overarching themes of Star Wars is redemption. The articles pre-release also touched on the redemption theme. They will find a way. It seems that in Episode 8, Rey gets training from Luke and Kylo Ren gets training from Snoke. Maybe they battle a bit. Then in Episode 9, Rey will fight Snoke. Kylo Ren will assist Snoke and Snoke almost kills Rey but then Kylo turns on Snoke and kills him.

I see a lot of parallels between this series and the original three.

[Spartan Girl]

FINALLY saw it! Thank God I got through the week without getting spoiled.

Dammit I knew Han would die! The mentors are always the first to go, and Harrison Ford always said he wanted to get killed off. I hope he's happy *sobs hysterically*. And the fact that Han and Leia were estranged and didn't get the chance to get back together only makes it worse! My shipper heart died a little at that scene.

But now we have Rey and Finn...although I'm kind of shipping Finn and Poe a little too. That Oscar Isaacs...DAMN!

When Kylo Ren took his mask off to show Adam Driver, the guy sitting behind me muttered "Sexy as hell!" LOL love the theater.

Love Rey. I'm more convinced than ever she's Luke's. And that last scene was so awesome I'm trying not to be too pissed that we had to wait until the last 2 minutes to finally see him.

Ready for Episode VIII!

[Boundary]

I think it was pretty clear Rey was Luke's daughter. The light saber passed from her grandfather, to father then to her - which is neater than grandfather to uncle then to her. Also, only her and R2 and Chewie went to find Luke (when the whole universe was looking for him) but after landing the Falcon the other two stayed behind - that kind of privacy reserved for father/daughter. Finally, I think making her Luke's daughter improves the family drama in upcoming episodes: she's not immediately going to run into his arms and he will be pissed she has revealed herself to the world. 

[Peace 47]

I am fully confident that Kylo Ren will be redeemed. One of the overarching themes of Star Wars is redemption. The articles pre-release also touched on the redemption theme. They will find a way.

He does feel the pull of the light, which may be a bookend to his grandfather's journey in the prequels (and that pull may still be there despite Ren murdering his father in cold blood, which actually could be another bookend to Vader saving his son at the last minute). Ren's whiney-emoness over all this still wore a little thin with me, though.

I 95% think Rey is Luke's daughter (why else have that exact scene on the mountaintop end the movie, with the girl who thought she had found a surrogate father in Han having to seek out another man to fulfill that role). On the other hand, would there be more symmetry if Ren and Rey were siblings instead of cousins? (To contrast Luke and Leia being on the same side?) With Rey being Luke's daughter, though, you get the whole possibility of who's the mother, is she dark or light, what's her deal, etc. The movie did a great job of building all this mythology. Lots of interesting questions raised.

[anna0852]

Dammit I knew Han would die! The mentors are always the first to go, and Harrison Ford always said he wanted to get killed off. I hope he's happy *sobs hysterically*. And the fact that Han and Leia were estranged and didn't get the chance to get back together only makes it worse! My shipper heart died a little at that scene.

 

That was the one piece the pissed me off. Okay fine, Han had to die. But to leave him and Leia estranged just made it a 10000 times worse. One of the most iconic relationships in cinema history and this is how it ends?!

I 95% think Rey is Luke's daughter (why else have that exact scene on the mountaintop end the movie, with the girl who thought she had found a surrogate father in Han having to seek out another man to fulfill that role). On the other hand, would there be more symmetry if Ren and Rey were siblings instead of cousins? (To contrast Luke and Leia being on the same side?) With Rey being Luke's daughter, though, you get the whole possibility of who's the mother, is she dark or light, what's her deal, etc. The movie did a great job of building all this mythology. Lots of interesting questions raised.

I like the idea of Rey being Han and Leia's daughter because we know that's an established relationship. We have to find out how she ended up on Jakku of course but we don't have the complication of also having to have her mother's relationship with Luke explained as well. Especially since the mother would have to be an entirely new character. Solo siblings would also be a nice nod to the Extended Universe.

Edited December 21, 2015 by anna0852

[rozen]

I don't think she's a Mary Sue and I liked her character but she does raise questions. The biggest one is how did she manage to beat Kylo Ren, a guy that the movie established as a powerful Force user? The same guy who stopped a blaster bolt in mid-air manages to lose to someone who's never held a lightsaber before? And the Jedi mind trick is something that I find hard to believe because how would that even occur to her to use that?

 

Because Kylo Ren is a force user in turmoil. My impression is the whole point of The Sith was to channel their emotions to purpose. Every time Kylo was faced with an obstacle, he acted out petulantly, violently...and unproductively. His precision was impeccable when he was calm, which (imo) is kind of indicative that he should have be a light side force user in the first place. There's nothing that's going to mess with your emotions than murdering your own father and having his last action be to stroke your face in a sign of affection instead of hurling outrage at you. And having your alien uncle immediately shoot you in the leg and try to blow you up. His character is one clearly filled with inner turmoil and self-doubt, which makes Rey his natural enemy. He was at his weakest and Rey was at his strongest, so I found his loss believable.

 

Snok (sp?) has clearly trained Kylo enough to get the job done, but not well enough that he can't be eliminated when necessary.

[benteen]

They never made it clear if Han and Leia were actually married.  I suspect if they were, they never divorced but just separated.  I could see Leia keeping her last name of Organa either way.

 

I do hope there's another Solo/Organa kid out there because I'd hate for their legacy to be a son who fell to the dark side.

 

I'm okay with Leia not becoming a Jedi although I think she would have made the perfect old-school Jedi (warrior-diplomat).  But I wish we had seen that she uses her Force-ability in some way.

Edited December 21, 2015 by benteen

[InsertWordHere]

That was the one piece the pissed me off. Okay fine, Han had to die. But to leave him and Leia estranged just made it a 10000 times worse. One of the most iconic relationships in cinema history and this is how it ends?!

Not just that, but Han has regressed to what he was at the start of ANH, hanging out with Chewie smuggling and talking his way out of things. Only this time he didn't even have the Millennium Falcon because he lost that too. I have never thought of Han as a hero or a particular good guy, but I didn't expect him to fall that low again. I'm not upset about the sad ending, I'm upset about the sad middle. 

[VCRTracking]

They never made it clear if Han and Leia were actually married.  I suspect if they were, they never divorced but just separated.  I could see Leia keeping her last name of Organa either way.

 

Haven't read the novelization but it seems it says they were married but separated.

 

Not just that, but Han has regressed to what he was at the start of ANH, hanging out with Chewie smuggling and talking his way out of things. Only this time he didn't even have the Millennium Falcon because he lost that too. I have never thought of Han as a hero or a particular good guy, but I didn't expect him to fall that low again. I'm not upset about the sad ending, I'm upset about the sad middle.

 

But that's what fans wanted, the rogue and wiseass scoundrel who's always owing some gangster, not the Republic General who became a responsible husband and father.

[ybrik]

Actually Yoda dies at the beginning of ROTJ after Luke rescues Han from Jabba.

 

Speaking of Luke and Han I really would have liked one last scene with them.

 

Really interested what the two stand alone movies are going to be after Rogue One.

[Rick Kitchen]

Really interested what the two stand alone movies are going to be after Rogue One.

 

One is Star Wars Anthology: Boba Fett.

[Ruby25]

I would not put it past them to have a flashback or two in the next movie, just so we can see Han and Luke together one last time. Plus, we do have to get some of this backstory of what went wrong with Luke's botched Jedi training operation, so I would honestly be a little surprised if they didn't take advantage of that to get Ford and Hamill in at least one scene together.

[VCRTracking]

They don't have flashbacks in Star Wars and Rey's vision was a special case because it was her seeing images. Ford wanted Han to die and that was that. I think it really was the final time we see Han as played by Harrison Ford, since they're planning a pre-ANH Han Solo movie with a younger actor.

[SNeaker]

 

And the fact that Han and Leia were estranged and didn't get the chance to get back together only makes it worse! My shipper heart died a little at that scene.

 

 

That was the one piece the pissed me off. Okay fine, Han had to die. But to leave him and Leia estranged just made it a 10000 times worse. One of the most iconic relationships in cinema history and this is how it ends?!

 

 

I have never thought of Han as a hero or a particular good guy, but I didn't expect him to fall that low again. I'm not upset about the sad ending, I'm upset about the sad middle.

 

You guys are killing me. Killing me. This was exactly why I approached these movies with trepidation. Yes, the prequels were terrible and unwatchable, but ultimately...they just didn't matter. It was disappointing not to get good movies, but they were always extra. The backstory and history behind a story we already knew and which had a happy ending. These new movies may be technically better and have the "feel" of Star Wars, but at what cost? I had 30 years to imagine a future for these characters (with some help from the books -- I didn't read all of them and tended to pick and choose which aspects I accepted in my head canon) and now all these years later they're going in and messing with it. For what? What is this amazing and new story they are telling that makes it worth it? So far at least, I'm not seeing anything special or unique -- any new theme or lesson or story that just needs to be told. Other than "life is shit and the same cycles of tragedy will repeat forever so don't even bother." Er. Great message, there. Maybe the next movies will flesh it out and develop the story, but based on this one, I remain skeptical. Especially since...well, let's be honest. We don't have a new Star Wars movie because someone thought of an amazing idea for a Star Wars story. We have it because some people wanted to make a lot of money and they hired people to come up with a new story. I'm sure everyone involved wanted it to be good, but there is a difference between something that is the result of inspiration and creativity and something that is the result of an assignment.

Edited December 21, 2015 by SNeaker

[absnow54]

I do hope there's another Solo/Organa kid out there because I'd hate for their legacy to be a son who fell to the dark side.

This is why I'm still in the quietly in the "I hope Rey is Han and Leia's daughter" camp, even though it seems exceedingly unlikely. If she were there'd be some sort of "no, there is another" implication when they were talking about Ren, even if they believed she was long dead (Ben is basically dead too at this point.) I just hate the idea that the legacy of this epic romance is a a bratty emo-villain. That after everything Han has done, and the amazing growth his character had in the original trilogy, his living legacy is what's destroying it. I mean it's a great way to get me to care about Ren's redemption, but it really makes my Empire Strikes Back loving heart sad.

 

They don't have flashbacks in Star Wars and Rey's vision was a special case because it was her seeing images.

While I think it's unlikely we'll see Ford again in the trilogy, I think it's possible that we'll see more flashbacks in the form of visions through Rey and Luke and possibly Kylo Ren. Rey still has a lot of missing backstory and I believe it's somewhat connected to Ren's fall from grace, so it's possible Han could be a part of a future vision since all of these characters are deeply connected to him.

 

You guys are killing me. Killing me. This was exactly why I approached these movies with trepidation. Yes, the prequels were terrible and unwatchable, but ultimately...they just didn't matter. It was disappointing not to get good movies, but they were always extra. The backstory and history behind a story we already knew and which had a happy ending. These new movies may be technically better and have the "feel" of Star Wars, but at what cost? I had 30 years to imagine a future for these characters (with some help from the books -- I didn't read all of them and tended to pick and choose which aspects I accepted in my head canon) and now all these years later they're going in and messing with it. For what?

This is how I felt after watching the movie for the first time. I just felt kind of defeated. Sure, this is a good movie, and the prequel films are bad films, but the prequels never effected the way I watched the original trilogy, even though they hacked away at everything that made Vader terrifying. This movie? I already feel like so much from the original trilogy doesn't matter. Han's growth? Leia's dedication? Luke's revival of the Jedi? I'm being whiny and mopey when there are still two movies left, I just can't shake how it's making me feel about the original trilogy. 

[Conan Troutman]

Evil overlord advise #1892: Being able to magically pull lightsabers into your hand sure looks cool, but maybe sometimes you just want to walk those five steps and pick the damn thing up while you're facing the hero. Just sayin'...

 

That Han would die was a bit obvious and you could pretty much tell how that scene would play out, but at least it was handled well enough in execution. The resolution of his past after the events of RotJ wasn't all that satisfying (you really couldn't come up with anything better than "Han and Leia had a kid that turned to the dark side and then kinda split up"?), but at least it fits the character.

 

The plot was a bit thin and the main mission "destroy Death Star #192" wasn't exactly the epitome of original ideas, either. But then again, Star Wars never was known for its intricate and layered plotting and I'll take a simple, straight forward plot any day over whatever the prequels were trying to do. Maybe episode VIII will be a bit more confident in its storytelling. Just please not another Death Star.

 

The most important thing: They got the main characters right. Rey and Fynn weren't anything groundbreaking, but were believable (well, other than Rey being a little bit too adept) and sympathetic and both actors did a good job. I liked that they didn't do a one hour origin story, but jumped right into the action. We know about that Force stuff already, so it was nice to see that Rey was just able to use it intuitively and they skipped the whole training with Obi-Wan part. It was cool in the OT, but no need to redo that over and over again. I also liked that Fynn just used that light sabre - there's really no special Jedi training required for basic stuff like smashing and blocking. You could still see that he was lacking any real skill and stood no chance against Kylo. Although it was a bit unbelievable that Rey kicked Kylo's ass just like that (okay, he might've been not at 100% after killing his daddy and is probably not one the same level as Darth Vader was yet, but come on... at least let her use some trick or distraction instead of flat out manhandling him). At least she didn't let him live because of some inexplicable plot reason or due to some lame Jedi code.

 

They did follow the hero's journey maybe a little bit to closely for both Rey and Fynn (and leaned a bit too much on Luke's and Han's respective arc from the first movie), so they're decisions were pretty predictable throughout the movie and will probably continue to do so. But again, if it's executed well, I can live with that. Another plus: Fynn really did tell her that he was a Storm Trooper once they got a bit time and we skipped that whole worn out romantic comedy trope where she finds out some other way.

 

Thankfully, they didn't feel the need to shove in a lot of crap that's clearly only there to sell toys. The cantina scene was short enough, Maz Kanata (sp?) was gladly able to speak in a not completely silly way and no one stepped in poop. The comic relieve was well placed and BB8 was far better (and less annoying) than C3PO and R2D2, who thankfully only had a short cameo. No crappy new alien races either, so well done.

 

Overall, pretty solid effort. Hopefully the next one will be a bit more daring and original, but that was as good a start as you could reasonably hope for.

[lion10]

I also have a question about the Republic and the Rebellion.  Shouldn't the Republic be spearheading the fight against the First Order instead of a ragtag Rebellion?  And how are the Rebellion and the Republic politically related anyways?

[Joe]

The Resistance thing is apparently explained in one of the books. I listened to a podcast thismorning. There's the First Order, which is bad. There's the New Republic, which doesn't want to take direct action and end up looking like the Empire. But the higher-ups know something needs to be done, so they fund the Resistance on the quiet. You know what's funny? I get that the prequels were trashed at least in part because of the politics and exposition, but this time we could have done with just a tad more. :)

 

On another note, Han's ship had security cameras, but Starkiller Base didn't? It's something my mum noticed, and she's right. It's weird and doesn't quite fit right.

 

Another thing, C3PO's entrance was funny, but it feels awfully like Claptrap. I realise Claptrap was probably influenced by C3PO, but it's another thing that doesn't feel quite right. Anyone else get that vibe, or do I just need to cut down on the Borderlands?

[kili]

I also have a question about the Republic and the Rebellion.  Shouldn't the Republic be spearheading the fight against the First Order instead of a ragtag Rebellion?

I almost found that believable. The Senate we saw was more moribund than our UN. The UN debates things endlessly and has a tough time agreeing to send out Peacekeepers let alone attack forces. I imagine the Republican Senate was still debating what to do about the First Order (and probably if it even existed) so the Rebellion just decided to do the job because they can actually act.  The Senate couldn't resolve what to do about the blockade of Alderon either, so a ragtag force had to resolve that issue as well.

[Last Time Lord]

JJ and co wanted to copy ANH as much as possible so a little thing like something not making any sense wasn't going to daunt him.

You saw that (frankly, hysterical) image, too, huh?

[jah1986]

I saw it yesterday and, like many others, liked it but didn't love it. I loved the original trilogy and didn't really hate the prequels (ducks for cover) but somehow this movie didn't feel like Star Wars, I don't know how to explain that.  It was great seeing the Falcon and the original characters though. Really would have like to have Luke utter one word,  I kept waiting for him to show up but just the cameo at the end was kind of disappointing.

 

I knew Han Solo was going to die the moment he yelled "Ben" but it did not stop my heart from pleading for me to be wrong and I just wanted to cry when he really did die. I don't think there's any redemption for Ren, but I was intrigued by his instant interest in "the girl" like he knew who she was. He's an interesting character but he didn't feel scary to me, not like Vader.

 

I was glad there didn't seem to be any animosity between Han and Leia, just regret. Like others have said Leia's voice just kept taking me out of her scenes. It seemed to me like she was wearing ill-fitting dentures and it affected her speech.

 

 I also was expecting a hug between Leia and Chewie after Han's death, why is she comforting Rey if she doesn't know her?

 

Not sure if I'm going to see it again in theaters, but it would be good to just be able to focus on the details knowing what's coming. Looking forward to the next one.

[lion10]

The Resistance thing is apparently explained in one of the books. I listened to a podcast thismorning. There's the First Order, which is bad. There's the New Republic, which doesn't want to take direct action and end up looking like the Empire. But the higher-ups know something needs to be done, so they fund the Resistance on the quiet.

 

Uh... are they aware that the First Order's planning on conquering and/or killing them all?  Doesn't an existential threat require direct action more than just funding some rebels?

 

Another part of the film I found interesting was the hints of the first Jedi and the first Sith.  That holds a lot of potential storylines with Darth Bane and I really want to see Korriban.  Maybe we'll even see a terentatek!   Also, did Kylo Ren's mask remind anyone of Revan from the Knights of the Old Republic series?  It's a shame those games aren't canon.

[TattleTeeny]

OK, everyone, who cried? 

 

I may or may not have been forced (no pun intended) to wipe my nose with my scarf.

Edited December 21, 2015 by TattleTeeny

[Conan Troutman]

I am fully confident that Kylo Ren will be redeemed. One of the overarching themes of Star Wars is redemption. The articles pre-release also touched on the redemption theme. They will find a way. It seems that in Episode 8, Rey gets training from Luke and Kylo Ren gets training from Snoke. Maybe they battle a bit. Then in Episode 9, Rey will fight Snoke. Kylo Ren will assist Snoke and Snoke almost kills Rey but then Kylo turns on Snoke and kills him.

I see a lot of parallels between this series and the original three.

 

I hope that's not exactly what we'll be getting. I'd be fine with it, as long as it doesn't play out almost exactly like Vader's arc. The best thing would be if they threw us a curve ball and either kill him in episode VIII or bring him back to the light side way earlier than expected.

 

Uh... are they aware that the First Order's planning on conquering and/or killing them all?  Doesn't an existential threat require direct action more than just funding some rebels?

 

Another part of the film I found interesting was the hints of the first Jedi and the first Sith.  That holds a lot of potential storylines with Darth Bane and I really want to see Korriban.  Maybe we'll even see a terentatek!   Also, did Kylo Ren's mask remind anyone of Revan from the Knights of the Old Republic series?  It's a shame those games aren't canon.

 

Ah, that's what the mask reminded me of! Yeah, those were (or better, still are) great games. Don't care about the EU at all, but that's one element they easily could've kept, as those games were set thousands of years earlier and have pretty much zero impact on the "recent" events. They also were a great example of how you could tell creative and original stories in that universe (and even put the OT to shame in my opinion). I really liked TFA, but the a bit too conventional approach to storytelling seems to be the one thing that could potentially hold the new trilogy back from being truly great and not merely pretty good.

[SNeaker]

On the one hand, I want Kylo redeemed if just for Leia's sake and because it's what Han would have wanted. But I also feel like it would almost be cruel to do it. Kind of like giving a vampire back his soul. How could Ben ever live with himself after killing his own father? It would be torture.

Edited December 21, 2015 by SNeaker

[TattleTeeny]

Could I offer a small correction? The character you've called "Hans", with an S at the end (in the quoted post & the 1 you wrote after) is just called "Han", with NO S at the end.

While I assume the original "Hans" is simply the result of a mistyped apostrophe, I thought I'd share this...

 

[benteen]

Based on the new EU (which is part of the same shared universe as the movies) it seems that the New Republic defeated the Empire at Jakku a year after Endor and forced them to sign a treaty.  The Republic then stupidly de-militarized, reducing their forces by about 90% and returning security mostly to the planets.  The First Order rose from the ashes apparently after Luke's disappearance.  The Republic didn't want to engage them so Leia basically said "Fuck this!" and formed the Resistance as a check against the First Order.  This seemed to wake the Republic up and they began to quietly and then publicly back the Resistance.

 

The Star Wars Visual Dictionary explains this better than I did.

Edited December 21, 2015 by benteen

[InsertWordHere]

I don't think Kilo will get Vader's redemption arc. For starters, I could picture Kylo killing Snoke in a rage in VIII if he finds out Snoke isn't as powerful as he originally seemed. Then Kylo becomes Supreme Leader and spends Epidode IX bogged down in administrative duties, which allows Rey to swoop in and take down the whole First Order. Seriously though, I don't see Snoke having much better results than Luke in training Kilo. 

[JessePinkman]

On the one hand, I want Kylo redeemed if just for Leia's sake and because it's what Han would have wanted. But I also feel like it would almost be cruel to do it. Kind of like giving a vampire back his soul. How could Ben ever live with himself after killing his own father? It would be torture.

 

It does seem cruel but I wonder, if he isn't redeemed what is the point? Han would have died for nothing.

 

Ideally I'd want Leia to be the one to finally get through to him, maybe she could channel her latent Force powers (let me dream) somehow, I don't know.

 

I saw the movie again yesterday, still love it. I must say that this movie cost $200 million and you can see every cent onscreen, that isn't true for most big budget film. 

 

John Boyega is the hero we never knew we needed.

 

Edited December 21, 2015 by JessePinkman

[revbfc]

I know there is a set-up for Rey being the big hero, but I also see Luke taking responsibility for Snoke himself. If Luke is still alive and in good health for IX, I don't see him unloading the whole burden on his padawan. It'd probably be the mirror of the Sidious/Yoda fight.

[BizBuzz]

I stopped reading this thread on Thursday, and there is far too much for me to inhale before I make my comments on this movie.  So I am sure I will be repeating some stuff that has already been said ... I will read at my leisure after this ...

 

Dang, that was good.  

 

I am 53 and I felt like I was 15 all over again with the amount of squees that came out while watching this movie.  I enjoyed every moment, new characters and old.

 

When Han showed up, even though I knew he was coming, I was beside myself.  As old as Harrison is, the spark in his eyes was the same.

 

Strictly nostalgia speaking ... the movie (in my opinion) is second only to Empire Strikes Back.  Yeah, I still have to give ESB kudos for being the best in my book, but I have also had decades with it in the top spot, so who knows what the future holds.  

 

Whoever cast Rey and Finn, OMG, they should get an award.  Rey was amazing and Finn was perfect.  And I thought R2D2 could show emotion, but BB-8 blew R2D2 away with making me actually feel it was a real feeling being.  ::giggle::

 

The reveal of Han/Leia son, that was something, and I admit shedding a tear for Han.  

 

Luke!  The Millennium Falcon!  Chewbacca!

 

Ok ... I am a huge Lego Star Wars video game fan ... would it be horrible to admit while watching I was already thinking about how they were going to transform the movie to video game?  HA!

 

I don't do this much for movies at theaters ... but I am going to see this again at the theater.  That is how good it was to me.

[VCRTracking]

EW.com has some revealing tidbits with a post screening Q&A with the TFA screenwriters JJ Abrams, Lawrence Kasdan and Michael Arndt:

 

“Early on I tried to write versions of the story where [Rey] is at home, her home is destroyed, and then she goes on the road and meets Luke. And then she goes and kicks the bad guy’s ass,” Arndt said. “It just never worked and I struggled with this. This was back in 2012.”

The trouble was a simple case of upstaging. “It just felt like every time Luke came in and entered the movie, he just took it over,” Arndt said. “Suddenly you didn’t care about your main character anymore because, ‘Oh f–k, Luke Skywalker’s here. I want to see what he’s going to do.

 

’”

 

and Abrams on why R2 D2 suddenly wakes up at the end with the map:

 

“BB-8 comes up and says something to him, which is basically, ‘I’ve got this piece of a map, do you happen to have the rest?’” Abrams said. “The idea was, R2 who has been all over the galaxy, is still in his coma, but he hears this. And it triggers something that would ultimately wake him up.”

 

The director acknowledges that R2’s sudden “awakening” at the end was designed to be an emotional storytelling utility: “While it may seem, you know, completely lucky and an easy way out, at that point in the movie, when you’ve lost a person, desperately, and somebody you hopefully care about is unconscious, you want someone to return.”

 

[Danny Franks]

So I just saw it. Loved it. Was it 100% original and new? Hell no, but the iconography and themes of the original trilogy were used well. I got a huge kick out of crashed Star Destroyers, collapsed AT-ATs, the return of TIE Fighters and X-Wings. It all played right into the nostalgia of the franchise perfectly. Abrams used his resources wisely, and never really over-egged anything in terms of the aesthetics. I felt like a kid again, watching it. That's the power of Star Wars. When it's done well, it is the perfect escapist adventure, everything about it is engineered to evoke that sense of wonder and excitement.

 

I thought Rey and Finn were fantastic as protagonists. Instantly sympathetic and engaging, with lively personalities and sense of humour. Daisy Ridley generates so much pathos, that it should be illegal. Her isolation and sadness just came through the screen. But she's no damsel, and I loved the beat with Finn getting ready to step in and save her, only to stop and go 'huh' when she beat up those two guys herself. Even when she was captured by Kylo Ren, she wasn't a useless woman in need of saving. She got herself out, she got herself to the hangar bay, and probably would have managed to steal a TIE Fighter and escape if the others hadn't showed up.

 

I'm confused as to who she is, because one of my favourite theories going in was that she was the offspring of Han and Leia, hidden away for reasons that would become clear. Now, neither Han nor Leia seem to know her, but she knows how to fly the Falcon, she understands Wookiee, she seems to embody large parts of both Han and Leia. So I'm eager to find out more about her in the next movie. And what tops it all? She's the chosen one, this time. Not Finn, as the trailers led me to believe. Rey is the one destined to be a Jedi.

 

That was a nice bait and switch, because I complained a while ago that there were too many Jedis around, in this franchise. That everyone important bar Han seems to be one. But now Finn is not. He showed no Force sensitivity at all, but just used the lightsaber as a weapon because... it's a weapon. Boyega brought the drama and comedy well, and his chemistry with Daisy Ridley was fantastic. I completely believed how much they had bonded by the end of the movie.

 

Poe Dameron was less important, but I liked him too. I've somehow not seen Oscar Isaac in anything before, but I'll track down his movies now. He's got good presence, and does a nice line in swashbuckling derring-do. I like that none of the new characters are direct analogues to the originals, but combine different facets of each character. Poe seemed like a good mix of Han and Luke.

 

I was pretty sure that Han was a goner, to be honest. I felt from the start that Harrison Ford would only commit to revisiting the character if they gave him a clear out. He wanted Han to die in ROTJ, and there was no way I could see him agreeing to be a significant part of a new trilogy. But also, Han is so strong a character that he has to be one of the focal points. And what this movie did well was transfer that focus to the newbies. It was time. Doesn't mean it didn't hurt, though. And Chewie's howl and immediate rampage mirrored my feelings personally. And in a pragmatic sense, now Han is gone, it gives room for Luke to be a bigger part of Episode VIII, while not taking time away from Rey, Finn or Poe.

 

As for Kylo Ren himself, I'm seeing people complain that showing him as a petulant, tantrum-throwing boy undermines him. I have to say, it does not. It makes him scarier, because he's a petulant, tantrum-throwing boy with immense power and no apparent sense of right and wrong, who will kill someone just because he's annoyed. That's terrifying. That's what Anakin could have been, with decent acting, writing and directing. I don't see him being redeemed, because no fan will ever forgive him for killing Han. And there's no reason for either Rey or Finn to give him a pass on anything. I think that, in this case, he'll be proof that not everyone can be redeemed. 

[Browncoat]

Danny Franks, Excellent post, and I agree with pretty much the entire thing.

[anna0852]

I thought Rey and Finn were fantastic as protagonists. Instantly sympathetic and engaging, with lively personalities and sense of humour. Daisy Ridley generates so much pathos, that it should be illegal. Her isolation and sadness just came through the screen. But she's no damsel, and I loved the beat with Finn getting ready to step in and save her, only to stop and go 'huh' when she beat up those two guys herself. Even when she was captured by Kylo Ren, she wasn't a useless woman in need of saving. She got herself out, she got herself to the hangar bay, and probably would have managed to steal a TIE Fighter and escape if the others hadn't showed up.

 

I'm confused as to who she is, because one of my favourite theories going in was that she was the offspring of Han and Leia, hidden away for reasons that would become clear. Now, neither Han nor Leia seem to know her, but she knows how to fly the Falcon, she understands Wookiee, she seems to embody large parts of both Han and Leia. So I'm eager to find out more about her in the next movie. And what tops it all? She's the chosen one, this time. Not Finn, as the trailers led me to believe. Rey is the one destined to be a Jedi.

 

...

 

 

As for Kylo Ren himself, I'm seeing people complain that showing him as a petulant, tantrum-throwing boy undermines him. I have to say, it does not. It makes him scarier, because he's a petulant, tantrum-throwing boy with immense power and no apparent sense of right and wrong, who will kill someone just because he's annoyed. That's terrifying. That's what Anakin could have been, with decent acting, writing and directing. I don't see him being redeemed, because no fan will ever forgive him for killing Han. And there's no reason for either Rey or Finn to give him a pass on anything. I think that, in this case, he'll be proof that not everyone can be redeemed. 

I absolutely believe Rey is a Solo child. The flight skills, the Wookiee comprehension, the Force sensitivity. It all adds up. I think she was thought dead when Ren went off the rails and then ended up on Jakku. Neither parent mentions her or has been looking for her because they think she is dead.

 

Ren is his grandfather all over again, right down the pissy tantrums and emotional angst. Han got it right when he said there was 'too much Vader in him.'  

 

I like the idea that not everyone can be redeemed. I think the Original trilogy was far too forgiving of Vader. I always thought it was a bit of a smack in the face to Owen Lars that Luke got that worked up over Vader. Luke didn't know Vader as a parent, wasn't raised by him and most of their interactions consisted of Vader actively trying (and succeeding!) to harm Luke. 

[Ruby25]

I thought it was annoying that people seemed to be able to understand droids in this one. Luke talked to R2 in the old ones, but he didn't understand what he said unless it was being translated through his computer thing in their plane. In this one everybody seemed able to just have a back and forth conversation with BB-8.

 

Also, did they ever actually refer to it as the "Light Side" in the old movies? I thought it was just the Force, and if you abuse the force you go to the dark side of it. Saying there's now an official "Light Side" is another thing that screams of fan fiction to me. But there was a lot of stuff like that in this.

[Ronin Jackson]

I saw it this morning and managed to avoid any spoilers... not sure how long that would have lasted, but honestly nothing really surprised me a great deal. I was entertained but I agree it was very fan-service-y and to an extent I think that's fine.... I mean you gotta have your Wilhelm scream and a "I've got a bad feeling about this". The one plot element where I thought was too derivative was the Death Star/StarKiller bit... I mean the franchise has used that one too many times already.

 

But the new characters/actors were good... I see mixed reactions to Kylo Ren but I thought Driver did a good job, as did Ridley, Boyega and Isaac. The Big Death was easy enough to predict, but it was well staged. I don't agree that that's a deviation from fan service though... that part of it also followed the blue print of the original to a T, with the death of the elder/mentor. Driver did a good job in that scene but I don't know how compelling all the family relationships continue to be. Darth Vader being Luke's father was a great twist, with a meaty story behind it., but it's only surprising once.  They've set up something with Rey's backstory but how interesting can it be? I don't know if I really need her to be related to anyone we already know or think that will add anything to the story, but I'll wait and see what they come up with.

 

I'm looking forward to Rian Johnson's film and hope it is less fan service and more taking the series into a new direction, but we'll see. I'm still very unenthusiastic that Colin Trevorrow is closing it out. This movie didn't convince me the new trilogy would be anything more than musical chairs fan fiction, but that can still be entertaining. I don't feel it's going to be anything more special than something designed to make Disney corp. billions of dollars though.

[absnow54]

That was a nice bait and switch, because I complained a while ago that there were too many Jedis around, in this franchise. That everyone important bar Han seems to be one. But now Finn is not. He showed no Force sensitivity at all, but just used the lightsaber as a weapon because... it's a weapon.

I was looking for some clarification on this, because on Jakku when Finn didn't shoot at the village, it seemed like Kylo Ren could sense -- what I assumed was-- Finn's force sensitivity. Kylo Ren then immediately identifies Finn as the escaped stormtrooper without having to look up his call number. That was the only implication I saw that Finn could be force sensitive, but it could have just been me misinterpreting the scene. 

[Ruby25]

I don't know why they had to set up the First Order AND a new Death Star just so they could redo the exact same plot as ANH. At the end of ROTJ the Empire was defeated, the Emperor destroyed, and when we come back thirty years later it feels like nothing has changed. Everybody just has new names. But they still have the Empire's same stormtroopers and everything, the Rebellion is the Resistance but still in the same spot.

 

Why couldn't they make the First Order some kind of insurgency that rose out of the ashes of the Empire, and turn the Resistance into the actual government or something? Swap positions. At least it would make more sense with what happened at the end of Jedi. That seems easy enough.