S01.E04: Episode 4

[Cranberry]

Laura feels vindicated when Mattie tells her that she has seen Anita acting strangely. Laura insists that the family take Anita for testing and they're shocked to discover she's 14 years old. After meeting Leo through the Headcracker forum, Mattie thinks she might have an idea. Pete becomes stir crazy, stuck in the house with Simon.

[ApathyMonger]

That Joe/Anita sex scene was awkward as hell.

 

The teenage party scenes were a bit too on the nose, especially paired with the smash club. Maybe we'll see the asshole teenagers again, but on their own, those scenes seemed fairly pointless.

 

I didn't see that final reveal with Karen coming. They can only do that twist so many times, but it worked here.

[ottoDbusdriver]

I didn't see that final reveal with Karen coming. They can only do that twist so many times, but it worked here.

 

Me neither.  I didn't see the reveal that not only is Leo a synth/partial synth, but is a version of the synth inventor David Elster's dead son.  Add that to Anita's outburst/cry for help when Mattie was trying to hack her, it does appear that somehow David Elster managed to capture and download entire copies of the personalities of real people -- and then upload them to synths.  I'm curious how he did that exactly -- because that seems like an incredible scientific breakthrough that he kept secret from the world (even from George).

 

How many of these special synths are out there -- in addition to the ones we know about (Leo, Anita, Niska, Max, Fred, Karen) ?  Tens ? Hundreds ? More ?

 

I was surprised there was no followup about what happened to Odi.

 

The teenage party scenes were a bit too on the nose,

 

I thought the teens deciding it was "no big deal" to sexually assault that powered off synth really hammered home the point that Niska made to the brothel madam when she escaped, saying "Everything your men do to us, they want to do to you". And all the girls at that party needed to be worried for their safety and to get the hell out of there pronto.  Toby turning down making out with an actual girl his own age because he's got Anita at home to fondle -- that's pretty messed up.

 

Laura is lying to Tom so he thinks she's having a affair when she is really investigating odd synth behavior, and that drives him to enable the 18+ options on Anita and bang her.  He's going to be feeling guilty about that for a long while, especially when he finds out that Laura isn't having an affair.

 

Now that they know that Anita is 14 years old (instead of two weeks), Laura is keeping her to continue to investigate what's what with Anita.  I wonder what else Elster hid in her base code.

 

That smash club was really reminiscent of the Flesh Fair from the move 'A.I.'  Considering that William Hurt also played a robotics inventor in that movie, I hope there's no mention of a 'blue fairy' in this series.

Edited July 5, 2015 by ottoDbusdriver

[Athena]

That sex scene was hard to watch. The close up on Anita/Gemma's face was interesting and discomforting. 

 

The woman Laura was interviewing made some interesting points about humans make the synths and there is so much projection on them. There is some positivity (George and Odi, Anita and Sophie..), but it is a warped society that relies on robots for so much and abuses them. Of course, what is abuse when robots aren't sentient.

 

Leo is not that clever or he has not dealt with enough teenage girls. He was very stupid to let Mattie go to the washroom like that. They should have at least talked about Mia a bit. The plot is slowing down on the Anita and Hawkins family storyline. I wish it would move a bit quicker though we got the inappropriate Joe/Anita sex out of the way.

 

I have watched too many TV shows because I wasn't surprised about Karen. I think the actress has done a good job of it because from the beginning, I thought there was something slightly robotic of her. She seemed self-conscious in most of her scenes as if calculating how to appear.

[NorthstarATL]

 

I thought the teens deciding it was "no big deal" to sexually assault that powered off synth really hammered home the point that Niska made to the brothel madam when she escaped, saying "Everything your men do to us, they want to do to you". And all the girls at that party needed to be worried for their safety and to get the hell out of there pronto.  Toby turning down making out with an actual girl his own age because he's got Anita at home to fondle -- that's pretty messed up.

 

I thought both scenes were interesting because they touched on the Synths replacing both the good and the bad behavior of the boys. The girls at the party really had nothing to fear,since they were not as "easy" as the Synth, and therefore could probably have no worries, but at the same time the Toby situation brought up the idea that positive contact might be affected negatively as well. A standard complaint about porn made manifest. Of course, we also see adults behaving like animals with the Synths, both sexually and violently and it makes us seem less than human. Or just makes "human" as lesser species.

 

I have watched too many TV shows because I wasn't surprised about Karen. I think the actress has done a good job of it because from the beginning, I thought there was something slightly robotic of her. She seemed self-conscious in most of her scenes as if calculating how to appear.

When she found him sleeping in the office,  I was surprised how their conversation went, because I was certain she was a Synth detective and was paired with him because of the Synth apsect of the investigation! Niska was more convincing in her disguise last week.

[OrientalAmish]

Pete's anger towards synths pisses me off.... ;-x

[John Potts]

I have to admit the cop turning out to be a Synth caught me by surprise too. I was just congratulating them on NOT having the two of them have an affair, which would be such a cliché (it could still happen, I guess, but seems less likely now). Though I also thought "Wow, she can fit her whole fist in her mouth!" (OK, it was probably CGI assisted), but I've never claimed not to be shallow!

 

I thought the teens at the party were believably dickish (pardon the pun!) because teenage boys really ARE sex obsessed and when you have access to a robot that satisfies 99% of being a girl without most of the consequences of abusing a real girl + alcohol - parental supervision and the result was pretty inevitable. Teen daughter was pretty brave (and right!) to confront them over it though, especially when you remember she was shooting at a synth in episode 1. What I didn't believe was Teenson - he may be in Lust with Anita, but that girl was clearly prepared to let you (at least) touch boob and was right there. What, is he waiting to turn 18 so he can activate Anita's Adult options? Yeah, coz that would be believable behaviour!

 

And on the subject of Adult Options, that scene with Anita and the Joe was just loaded with unpleasantness. "Just trying it out"? That's like "I found it like that!" "The cheque's in the post" and "The Star Wars Prequels are as good as the originals!". And I'm glad we saw that Laura wasn't having an affair (or at least, not on this occasion) - I've always suspected she was checked out of the marriage and using work as an excuse, not that she was playing away from home.

 

Still don't care about Niska. Given the (not exactly subtle) Nazi analogies with the Smashing Crew, I guess we're meant to be on her side, but the woman (well, Synth) is a fricking psychopath. Also, since I get annoyed when humans do it, I was yelling at her to "Get a fucking move on!" when she was in that club - I wish she could have acted less human there (she's not human and she'd not shown any emotion except anger previously) so she shouldn't be angsting over the fate of her fellow Synths there when she needed to get a move on (even if the cops hadn't showed, the Smashers would be back soon with reinforcements). That said, I thought her escape was pretty badass (if still psychotic).

[henripootel]

Carried over from the previous thread to avoid spoilers.

 

I thought Joe's discomfort with examining Anita for damage was a sign that he is NOT a perv.

I thought it was an odd scene in light of this episode.  

 

Either Joe thinks Anita isn't human (and so he might as well have been examining a roomba) or she is human (in which case a good guy might feel pervy for doing this).  I think we're supposed to think the latter, that Joe's a good guy in an unusual situation with a supermodel.  In which case he's also a fucking roofying rapist.  I think the show wants it both ways, that Joe's essentially a good guy who made a 'bad call'.  Uh, no, and stop trying to make me sympathize with him, show.  And this isn't a question about what Anita is or isn't, it's a question of what Joe thinks Anita is or isn't.  If he thinks she deserves her modesty but coerces her into sex anyway, it's rape and he's a rapist.  Writers shoulda thought that one through.

Edited July 16, 2015 by henripootel

[Primetimer]

And at this point, she really needs one.

Read the story

[TomGirl]

I wasn't surprised that Karen turned out to be a synth. Something about her just seemed synthy. I think it's the hair.

[Bryce Lynch]

Carried over from the previous thread to avoid spoilers.

I thought it was an odd scene in light of this episode.

Either Joe thinks Anita isn't human (and so he might as well have been examining a roomba) or she is human (in which case a good guy might feel pervy for doing this). I think we're supposed to think the latter, that Joe's a good guy in an unusual situation with a supermodel. In which case he's also a fucking roofying rapist. I think the show wants it both ways, that Joe's essentially a good guy who made a 'bad call'. Uh, no, and stop trying to make me sympathize with him, show. And this isn't a question about what Anita is or isn't, it's a question of what Joe thinks Anita is or isn't. If he thinks she deserves her modesty but coerces her into sex anyway, it's rape and he's a rapist. Writers shoulda thought that one through.

I think what happened with Anita and Joe was a textbook example of how people give into temptation. He is upset with Laura and a bit drunk. Then he decides to activate Anita's adult function out a curiosity and for "her sake" so they can both know what it is like for her to "feel"... or so he convinces himself. I think he is rationalizing his lust for her and setting up the situation to act on it, but doesn't fully understand that he is doing it.

I think the ambiguity of what Anita is and what Joe thinks she is makes the situation very confusing (in a good way for the story).

As you said, if he thinks she is merely a machine, he might consider what he did a glorified form of masturbation. If he sees her as human, then it is akin to rape. Since he probably sees her as something in between a human and a machine, he probably doesn't know exactly what to think of it.

I wasn't surprised that Karen turned out to be a synth. Something about her just seemed synthy. I think it's the hair.

The only reason I wasn't surprised was that the episode preview on my TV mentioned Karen not being what she appeared to be. It is unusual to have such a spoiler in those. Edited July 20, 2015 by Bryce Lynch

[Amelie06]

 

I think we're supposed to think the latter, that Joe's a good guy in an unusual situation with a supermodel.  In which case he's also a fucking roofying rapist.  I think the show wants it both ways, that Joe's essentially a good guy who made a 'bad call'.  Uh, no, and stop trying to make me sympathize with him, show.  And this isn't a question about what Anita is or isn't, it's a question of what Joe thinks Anita is or isn't.  If he thinks she deserves her modesty but coerces her into sex anyway, it's rape and he's a rapist.  Writers shoulda thought that one through.

I actually think the writers are well aware of the implications. I don't think that they were saying that Joe was a good guy. Joe may see himself as a good guy. but that isn't necessarily the reality. He may have tried to avoid ogling Anita's naked body one time, but that hardly makes him a saint. His kids were in the house and his wife would soon be home. The fact is, the first time he was home alone and had the opportunity to sex Anita, he did. I think Joe knows he isn't such a good guy, that all of his wife's early concerns were totally right. It was all there after he finished. The self loathing and fear was instantly clear.

 

Merlin continues to interest me. I find his story to be very compelling.

 

Niska is a dumbass. I get it, but she needs to look at the bottom line! She knows they would all be screwed if she were to be captured. Does she lie low? Nope. She keeps showing up places, causing a problem. Sit down, girl!

 

The Karen situation is like the "Sixth Sense" for me all over again. I always thought she was a synth. Always. That chick does not really blend.

 

Pete is a terrible little man. If he wasn't raging against synths, it would probably be immigrants that were ruining civilization. He's the worst! I wouldn't be surprised if the season ends with him committing a murder/suicide with his wife.

 

Laura is very irritating. What a nag! I know she's right, but I can't stand to agree with her. Mattie is also a bit annoying. Smug little jerk. Don't even get me started on Toby, who clearly wants to take a one-way train to Rapeville. I was rooting for the truck to hit him in the last episode. Why did Anita have to ruin it for me?

[CarpeDiem54]

Mattie's at a party with dumbass brother, Toby*; Laura's out checking up on other synths to see if they have feelings; where was Sophie while Joe was boning Anita? Were these two "adult mode" characters supposed to be watching her? Good thing Joe's got a synth to clean cum stains off the couch. Asshole.

*Toby's an idiot (must take after his Dad). He's got a real live, breathing, bosom heaving girl just dying to be felt up kissing him and he rejects her because he "might like someone else". Dude, I hope your teeny, tiny penis dries up and falls off before you ever get to really use it. Moron.

ETA - On rewatch, I see Sophie's at a sleepover. Good thing. Can you imagine the trauma if she walked in on Daddy sampling the 18+ options?

Edited July 20, 2015 by CarpeDiem54

[sluggish neko]

I thought they were going the affair route with Karen. When she shut her bedroom door and locked it, I thought, Good thinking girl. Lots of sexual assault going on in this episode and Pete is awful... then she had to go and pull out her stomach sack. So yeah, they got me... does this mean she's a sentient synth working with Leo's group on the inside or part of something else?

 

And Leo, I thought he'd be smarter to let a teen trick him so easily. Why offer the option of a bag? Just take the frikkin' phone! Teens can't live without their phones. Plus, you can hack a phone. Gah! At least we got some new info about him from Dr. Millican. I'm guessin' that shared memory of the car sinking in water is how the real Leo died.

 

Niska did look cool escaping with her nail gun even if her original intent made no sense. She's on the run for killing a human. Her response: go beat down more humans where she can be captured on camera. Riiiiiight. With her history in the brothel and her predilection for violence, maybe she's modeled after Pris from Blade Runner?

 

As for the Joe/Anita scene that I hoped we wouldn't have to see... I just finished Aziz Ansari's new book and I had the misfortune of learning what a tenga was. Assuming Joe thinks Anita is simply a human shaped machine, he's using one exceptionally expensive tenga.

[dramachick]

To me, this show seems to be about two different things: 1) how humans can project feelings onto inanimate objects, and 2) the science fiction aspect of giving a robot consciousness and thereby declaring it a "living being."

 

George feels affection for Odi because he's the repository of a lifetime of memories that he can share with George, which is a comfort. It's through the sharing that Odi is "family" to him.

 

Karen is actually living as a human being but to what end? What is the point?  Has she been placed in the police department by powers yet unseen?

 

When Joe had sex with Anita I saw it as high-end masturbation much like the sex that many men engage in with mannequin size sex dolls as they fantasize. It's not like she was moaning or whispering sweet nothings in his ear.  She didn't even fake an orgasm. She was a machine he put in "adult mode" in order to get off. 

 

The teenage boys at the party started to engage in disturbing behavior that they could have just as easily done to a vulnerable teenage girl who they would have seen as an object no different from the powered-off robot. Good for Mattie for nipping that behavior in the bud.

 

I call bullshit on Toby turning down a real live girl unless the writers actually want him to be an abnormally weird kid.

 

 

 

[itainttippithebird]

So, if Leo and the four consider themselves family - with the same father, calling each other siblings, etc - then isn't it kinda weird/creepy for Leo and Mia to be in love?!

[glory92]

I wonder if she is a maternal figure. She seems hung up on the idea of protecting Sohpie.

[henripootel]

It was all there after he finished. The self loathing and fear was instantly clear.

True, but what was the cause?  I'm guessing Joe thinks he's betrayed his wife (with an appliance, true), not that he betrayed Anita (by raping her).  His first action was to keep anyone from finding out by telling Anita not to say anything, not to minimize any damage he might have caused (maybe) by telling Anita to delete any memory of what happened.  I don't think Joe feels ambiguity here about Anita so much as he seems to feel two entirely different, mutually exclusive ways, hence my 'bad writing' comment.

Edited July 20, 2015 by henripootel

[MizArk]

Mr G and I still haven't decided if we actually like this show, but we keep watching. I'd have been more surprised by Karen's reveal if they hadn't styled her from the beginning to look like Data's daughter. I've been calling her Officer Lal from the start, so the reveal just made me laugh.

[riverheightsnancy]

I don't read the previews, just because I want to be 100% surprised regarding shows I like. Silly me thinking that Karen was bulimic when her hand first went to her mouth! I think that the way synths sit in chairs (the actual how they get into the chair), gives them away. I think that the acting coach/director is doing a great job on this show. I really felt like Anita showed more warmth in her eyes in general. The minute Joe turned on the 18+ features, it was like she went dead in her eyes. Maybe I am projecting, but I do not think that Mia liked what happened and possibly, Joe will pay for this. 

[shrewd.buddha]

I like the fact that Laura and Mattie slowly emerged as sympathetic protagonists, but still having significant flaws and annoying traits. Most television characters are almost literally given a white hat or black hat when they are first introduced because the average writer can't imagine the average viewer being able to appreciate the concept of layers. 

 

Pete seems headed towards a major wig-out - probably with a lot of collateral damage. He's going to blame the synths for everything wrong in his life and when he discovers the secret that his most loyal supporter is keeping .... 

 

I am torn on the Joe/Anita situation... Anita is supposed to be an appliance. Would Laura have any more cause to be upset if she had walked in on him having a wank in the shower? Again - no good can come from putting faces on robots.. 

 

I am NOT torn on the Toby/Anita situation. That kid needs help.  

.... although, I would like to see the reaction if/when Joe and Toby discover they have been "using the same toothbrush" ... 

Edited July 20, 2015 by shrewd.buddha

[Bryce Lynch]

If the synths can be shut down by a simple touch under the chin, why doesn't George shut off Vera when she badgers him? The men being attacked by Niska might also be able to do this if they could get close enough.

[rubyred]

Mattie! You go! Was pleasantly surprised to see her clock those guys for taking advantage of the synth - to me, in that situation, it's immaterial that she's an "appliance" - they knowingly and deliberately disabled her for their own purposes.

 

Toby has lost his everlovin' mind -- he can't ever touch Anita without her informing Joe and Laura, so what's he going to do, love her from afar?

 

The food bag removal scene squicked me out a bit; I had had fleeting thoughts in previous episodes wondering if Karen was a synth, not because of her behavior but because her appearance is so symmetrical.

 

I thought it was going to be more of a scandal that this underground "Smash Club" existed, but apparently they're known and accepted. There are just so many different threads to pull on re: attitudes towards synths and their role in society.

[EricJ]

"If the synths can be shut down by a simple touch under the chin, why doesn't George shut off Vera when she badgers him?"

Vera clearly has settings that prevent George from having the full range of control over her that most Primary and Secondary owners have over their synths. Not being able to turn her off would obviously be one of the first things to be blocked.

Is anyone else bugged by the fact that there don't appear to have been any other technological advances besides Synths? And that there don't appear to be any non-humanoid AIs doing the kinds of things that would be more appropriate for them to do - like self-driving cars.

The moral of the story for me is, keep the robots out of the Uncanny Valley, and you'll keep the owners out of the robots' Uncanny Valleys.

[Mabinogia]

I actually caught a lot of Syth-like movement in Karen and kept wondering if that was on purpose, if the actress wasn't sure what her roll was. She would occasionally make these very sharp movements that always struck me as odd when I thought she was meant to be human and got me wondering if she was maybe at least part synth like Merlin.  Now it all makes sense.

Disgusted by those kids at the party and LOVE Mattie for stopping them. It was interesting to have that play out in the same ep as Joe using Adult Mode because I'm slightly more okay with Joe, mainly because he does not know, like we do, that Anita is more than a mindless machine. I think Laura is starting to get it, and I would kind of love for her to become some kind of advocate of Anita and her "family".

For me this show is just getting better and better.

[thuganomics85]

I actually also had wondered if something was up with Karen, because while the actress is good, she always felt slightly off, in a way I couldn't quite explain.  So, the idea that she is actually Synth wasn't too surprising.  Plus, this is obviously a set-up for major drama, since Pete is so anti-Synth to the point that it isn't healthy.  He totally think it was the Synth's fault for his marriage failing, and not because he was being a dick.

 

Wish I could say I was surprised over Joe going there with Anita, but I wasn't.  Had a feeling it was only a matter of time, as soon as they showed the 18+ card.  I'm sure the show wants it to be somewhat gray; if you consider Synths appliances, then it could be argued that it was more like using a sex doll or toy; but it really felt creepy to me, and like he was cheating on Laura and raping Anita.  Sort of like how on fantasy shows and whatnot, characters using love spells and whatnot.  Either way, I really think less of Joe now, and felt bad for Anita.  Gemma Chan was great in the aftermath of that scene.  Despite being robotic, she still played it like there was a part of her that was disgusted and felt violated.

 

Meanwhile, I'm finally, finally warming up to Laura.  She's actually now trying to figure out what Anita's deal is, and isn't just complaining and trying to get rid of the problem.  She actually wants to know details and see if they can help her.  I can get behind this Laura, compared to the one from the past.

 

Toby truly is an idiot.  He has some girl, who even in the brief time, comes off like she's way out of his league, who totally wants to spend time with him, and he tosses her aside because he truly thinks his heart belongs to Anita.  Idiot.  I really hope if/when Anita become Mia, she laughs in his face.  Meanwhile, at least Mattie is there to stop assholes from randomly trying to rape a turned-off Synth.  Got some future date-rapists right there, I see.

 

Leo really doesn't watch much TV, if he fell for the whole "I just need to go to the bathroom" act.  Get it together, Merlin!  At least he did find George and now knows that all of these particular Synths have a message from his father, so he needs to get them all together.  Curious to see where this goes.  I also hope we get him and George together again, because I enjoyed seeing Colin Morgan and William Hurt in a scene together.

 

As soon as I saw the "Smash Club", I knew it was going to end with Niska destroying them.  Not sure why a bunch of them didn't just rush her and overwhelm her, but I guess panic just set-in.  That said, as enjoyable as it was to see that, I do wonder if they are setting it up that her violence streak will end up being a bad thing: either for herself, her companions, or innocent humans, who accidentally crossed her.

[fauntleroy]

Is anyone else bugged by the fact that there don't appear to have been any other technological advances besides Synths? And that there don't appear to be any non-humanoid AIs doing the kinds of things that would be more appropriate for them to do - like self-driving cars.

 

Yea, but I put this down as budgetary constraint. Easier to pay actors to pretend to be robots picking oranges, than mocking up specialized orange-picking robots. There really is little point in bothering to construct human-looking work units.

 

Similarly though, the fact that the synths are so very human, and are still being treated so badly, seems out of synch. By the time they have reached this level of sophistication, I'd have thought that society would already have had, and resolved, the debate about whether these objects/creatures are conscious/sentient. Which they seem quite obviously to be already, or nearly so.

 

The debate is going to happen long before we have robots that look like Gemma Chan--when our refrigerators and washing machines start giving us sass about our dietary and hygienic standards. Or our self-driving cars won't take our shortcuts. Basically the intelligence is/will be built into things, pervasive but not visible, rather than residing in perfect-looking humanoids. But that would be less interesting to watch.

[Armchair Critic]

I would like to see the reaction if/when Joe and Toby discover they have been "using the same toothbrush"

 

Did I miss something? The only sexual interaction I saw Toby do was grab her breast, did he do more than that? I admit on Sunday nights I sometimes am doing other things while watching.

[shrewd.buddha]

The only sexual interaction I saw Toby do was grab her breast, did he do more than that? I admit on Sunday nights I sometimes am doing other things while watching.

No, Toby has not yet checked Anita's "oil level", but it's clear he is heading in that direction. If he can't figure out how to bypass her protocols, I would imagine that he would still not be happy to discover that his father has already been plugged in. 

Edited July 21, 2015 by shrewd.buddha

[TexasGal]

So, if Leo and the four consider themselves family - with the same father, calling each other siblings, etc - then isn't it kinda weird/creepy for Leo and Mia to be in love?!

Oh! Total speculation here, but maybe Leo and Mia were married and drowned together in that flashback Mia/Anita keeps having. And they had a child that she wasn't able to save which explains her attachment to Sophie.

[henripootel]

No, Toby has not yet checked Anita's "oil level", but it's clear he is heading in that direction. If he can't figure out how to bypass her protocols, I would imagine that he would still not be happy to discover that his father has already been plugged in.

Thing I can't understand - Anita has an 'off' switch.  Can't figure out why Toby hasn't taken advantage of that to go to boob-town.

 

It crossed my mind that a worse father than Joe might 'accidentally' leave Anita's restrictions off and let Toby do as he pleases.  If Anita's just a toaster then what of it?  Hopefully he'll learn that masterbation, fun as it is, won't take the place of an actual human, and what better way to learn this.  I think I'd restrict Anita from saying 'that's not how your dad does it', but aside from that ...

[Chicago Redshirt]

 Toby turning down making out with an actual girl his own age because he's got Anita at home to fondle -- that's pretty messed up.

 

Laura is lying to Tom so he thinks she's having a affair when she is really investigating odd synth behavior, and that drives him to enable the 18+ options on Anita and bang her.  He's going to be feeling guilty about that for a long while, especially when he finds out that Laura isn't having an affair.

 

 

Anita disclosed that Laura had made a work-related appointment on that street, so any fears that she was going to be hooking up with someone should have been alleviated.

 

A few people have commented on Toby's not hooking up with the real girl in favor of a fantasy with Anita as unrealistic.

 

I'm of a different mindset.

 

It's easy to idealize someone who is more of a challenge and seemingly unattainable. It's probably even easier when you factor in that Toby literally owes Anita his life. It happens a fair amount in fiction, and probably is not unheard of in real life, where someone goes gaga for a potential girlfriend who is neutral to the notion of a romance or has even shut it down as an idea, while ignoring that there's a perfectly willing and able potential girlfriend right in front of them.

 

Pete's anger towards synths pisses me off.... ;-x

 

Pete has every reason to think his wife is banging her synth physical therapist. Said synth is an adonis, which has to contribute to his feeling inadequate. She has kicked him to the curb, presumably because of said synth physical therapist. And he has been stuck in a job portrayed as second-rate because no one really cares about crimes involving synths. And then finally when a real crime does happen with a synth, he's directed to bury it, because Big Synth doesn't want an investigation.

 

I think he's got every right to feel salty.

 

Either Joe thinks Anita isn't human (and so he might as well have been examining a roomba) or she is human (in which case a good guy might feel pervy for doing this).  I think we're supposed to think the latter, that Joe's a good guy in an unusual situation with a supermodel.  In which case he's also a fucking roofying rapist.  I think the show wants it both ways, that Joe's essentially a good guy who made a 'bad call'.  Uh, no, and stop trying to make me sympathize with him, show.  And this isn't a question about what Anita is or isn't, it's a question of what Joe thinks Anita is or isn't.  If he thinks she deserves her modesty but coerces her into sex anyway, it's rape and he's a rapist.  Writers shoulda thought that one through.

I think Joe doesn't give a fuck about Anita's feelings or lack thereof. 

 

Joe only cares about potentially being caught by Laura.

[Armchair Critic]

This is a  topic for debate but I look at the husband doing Anita as more than just masturbating, I view it as cheating. He had been lusting after her so to me it's like she is more than an object to him.

[Bryce Lynch]

This is a topic for debate but I look at the husband doing Anita as more than just masturbating, I view it as cheating. He had been lusting after her so to me it's like she is

more than an object to him.

I agree that it is a form a cheating,though I was also say that masturbation is a light form of cheating as well.

I don't think what he did with Anita was as bad as doing it with a real woman, but given how real she lookd and that he knows how threatened Laura feels by Anita, it was definitely a form of betrayal.

I still think Laura is probably cheating on Joe as well, though.

[RealityCreator]

Oh! Total speculation here, but maybe Leo and Mia were married and drowned together in that flashback Mia/Anita keeps having. And they had a child that she wasn't able to save which explains her attachment to Sophie.

 

 

Oooo...Good one!

 

I also knew (or strongly suspected, anyway) that Karen was a synth.  When she was first introduced, I thought that the actress was particularly stiff, and then I laughed to myself realizing that she was supposed to be acting that way because she was a synth!   I also suspected that Leo was a synth or synth hybrid of some sort, not because of any acting choices, but because it would be a good plot twist.  I'm particularly proud of myself for being right about these two because I'm usually terrible at figuring out these kinds of plot twists before they're revealed on the show.

 

The Joe/Anita discussion has been so interesting.  I think that from Joe's point of view, because he has no idea that Anita/Mia is sentient, he has not raped her, and because he truly believes  - and has every reason to believe - that she is a machine and nothing more, he has no obligation to feel guilty about hurting or violating Anita.   His misgivings, I believe, are directed toward himself   (What kind of a man has sex with a machine?), and he feels terrible about the deed after the fact because he does feel that he has betrayed Laura in some way, but he's ambivalent about how, exactly, he has betrayed her.  He likely would not have and never has masturbated with a blow up doll, but because Anita is so like a flesh and blood woman, he had sex with her (or *it*  - from his viewpoint), and that made him feel like he had done something wrong in a way that masturbating with a truly inanimate object likely would not have.  

Edited July 23, 2015 by RealityCreator

[Quilt Fairy]

Who is the man that is after the sentient synths (not the policeman, the scientist who's referred to as "the man from the government")? Does he have a backstory I missed in one of the earlier episodes?

[tatterd]

Who is the man that is after the sentient synths (not the policeman, the scientist who's referred to as "the man from the government")? Does he have a backstory I missed in one of the earlier episodes?

 

You've not missed the backstory, you'll get to find out slightly more about him in the next couple of episodes.

[SlovakPrincess]

Color me pleasantly surprised that Matty told her mom about hacking Anita and had a good convo with her. Matty was great at the party, too. And setting up the meeting on the hacker site and tricking Leo. Go Matty!

OMG, Pete's wife is leaving him for a synth. It's not funny ... but it kind of is. Also her yelling out "Pete, the deposit!" to stop him from hurting the synth. Hee!

It was a bit heavy handed, but I liked him yelling "I'm not perfect! We're not supposed to be!" That said, Pete has a temper, and the marriage might have been in trouble anyway. But I do feel bad for the guy - everything is going to crap for him ... and he already had the stress of work and his wife's accident. And now his partner is a secret synth!

Joe, you creepy bastard.

Howard and Odi should be friends ... if Odi ever gets out of the forest before he runs out of battery!

Yay, George is finally looped into the bigger plot!

This show really needs to stop setting up scenarios where I cheer on Niska's killer tendencies ...

Edited July 26, 2015 by SlovakPrincess

[BensBritches]

Oh! Total speculation here, but maybe Leo and Mia were married and drowned together in that flashback Mia/Anita keeps having. And they had a child that she wasn't able to save which explains her attachment to Sophie

 

.I have a somewhat different take.  I thought George said Leo died when he was younger, so maybe rather than being a couple, Mia was like a synth mother to Leo (there has never been a mention of Leo's mother).  I wonder if maybe they were in a car accident together, Mia could not save Leo and he "died."  Mia/Anita may have some residual memory of that event and now promises to keep all the children in her care "safe."  She may have carried Sophie away in the first episode as she had tried to carry Leo away from the river (or whatever body of water they wound up in).

 

While I am really enjoying this show, I do sometimes get taken out of it by how truly human and diversified the synths are.  I get distracted by the spots, freckles, moles whatever that the synths have.  And that they are all so human looking other than the eyes.  Have the "developers" (who makes these synths and are there different companies?) all agreed to keep the eyes as the one distinguishing factor between human and synth?

 

In reality, though... my most pressing question is why Leo is wearing a jacket, hoodie, sweater and t-shirt all at once?  Could we get at least one scene where Colin isn't so bundled up already?? 

[OakGoblinFly]

Howard and Odi should be friends ... if Odi ever gets out of the forest before he runs out of battery! ...

 

 

Howard?  Who's that?

[John Potts]

BensBritches In reality, though... my most pressing question is why Leo is wearing a jacket, hoodie, sweater and t-shirt all at once?  Could we get at least one scene where Colin isn't so bundled up already??

 

Probably because he's homeless and the most convenient way to carry his clothes is to wear them.

 

SlovakPrincess Also her yelling out "Pete, the deposit!" to stop him from hurting the synth. Hee!

 

Particularly given he (presumably) put down he deposit. I guess it's possible he might care about getting his cash back when he pretty clearly wouldn't mind kicking the crap (or errm... bluish fluid) out of her lover.

[SlovakPrincess]

Howard?  Who's that?

 

Howard is the theater-loving synth that Laura met.  Remember how the other lawyer at Laura's law firm was talking about a lawsuit a woman filed, claiming it was discrimination not to allow her to take her synth to plays at the theater?   When Laura went to meet the woman, she called her synth Howard.  

[LeGrandElephant]

I don't really see how the timeline makes sense. Anita is 14 years old and remembers a drowning incident with Leo where Leo was "a boy", but Leo doesn't look that young... Also, the old man said Leo was too young to have known Elster, but if Elster was alive as recently as 14 years ago and presumably awhile past that, why wouldn't someone Leo's age have been able to know him? 

Edited July 30, 2015 by LeGrandElephant

[Which Tyler]

Colin Morgan is 29 (and I'd guess, playing a slightly younger character in Leo). 14 years ago, he'd have been 15; so certainly counting as a "boy".

 

Elster had retreated as a recluse, he may only have been dead for 2 years, but if he'd been in seclusion for 14 (I don't see how he'd have worked on Mia in secret, as part of a team, before becoming a recluse) then he'd be highly unlikely to have known him (as opposed to have heard about him).

[LeGrandElephant]

Wow, to me he looks older than that, but I guess its because he's so scruffy and stressed all the time. 

[BensBritches]

Anita is 14 years old and remembers a drowning incident with Leo where Leo was "a boy", but Leo doesn't look that young...

 

I think they said Anita was "at least 14 years old." So maybe she's been around for more than 14 years.  Also, at some point they described Leo as "20's", but didn't say early, mid or late.  Maybe he's only supposed to be in his early 20's. When Colin is shaved, he looks very young (IMO), so yeah, his scruffiness may make him look older. 

 

I am not sure we really know at what point the "accident" with Leo happened and we don't know when his father died? Disappeared?  But I also thought the "you're too young to have known Elster" line was odd.

[LeGrandElephant]

"too young to have known Elster" made me think that Leo doesn't age and that Elster died many decades ago. Instead, it seems like it just meant "I think Elster wouldn't have been hanging out with teenagers."

[OakGoblinFly]

Howard is the theater-loving synth that Laura met.  Remember how the other lawyer at Laura's law firm was talking about a lawsuit a woman filed, claiming it was discrimination not to allow her to take her synth to plays at the theater?   When Laura went to meet the woman, she called her synth Howard.  

 

 

Sheesh, I must be having a senior moment .... thank you for the memory refresh.

[Captain I0]

Carried over from the previous thread to avoid spoilers.

 

I thought it was an odd scene in light of this episode.  

 

Either Joe thinks Anita isn't human (and so he might as well have been examining a roomba) or she is human (in which case a good guy might feel pervy for doing this).  I think we're supposed to think the latter, that Joe's a good guy in an unusual situation with a supermodel.  In which case he's also a fucking roofying rapist.  I think the show wants it both ways, that Joe's essentially a good guy who made a 'bad call'.  Uh, no, and stop trying to make me sympathize with him, show.  And this isn't a question about what Anita is or isn't, it's a question of what Joe thinks Anita is or isn't.  If he thinks she deserves her modesty but coerces her into sex anyway, it's rape and he's a rapist.  Writers shoulda thought that one through.

 

This is way off-base. What the kids in the party were going to do is akin to be being a "roofying rapist". No matter what Joe thinks of synth's level of sentience is, what he did is not. If you knock someone out with a roofy, it doesn't make them want to have sex with you. It makes them unconscious.

 

Joe had the capability to make somebody want to have sex with him & then had sex with her. To bring it back to your point, he either thinks the synth is an inanimate object and therefore was masturbating with an adult toy, or he thinks they are sentient and what he did was commit adultery. But he didn't rape, or force himself on anyone. He first verbally asked for consent to turn on her adult options and then verbally asked for consent to have sex. That's pretty far removed from roofy rape on the spectrum of sex crimes.

 

There was not even any reason shown to think that Anita didn't "want to" have her Adult options turned on as she initiated physical contact with him many times throughout their conversation before he went through with it. In fact, there was certainly some suggestion leading up to this point  in the series (I haven't watched past this episode) that Anita was actively trying to (and wanting to) replace Laura in many ways in the family and this would be another logical step for her to take. So, if you take the "He thinks she is sentient" stance, many of her prior actions could even be construed as attempts to seduce Joe. 

 

It's science fiction, so there isn't an apt allegory in real life. And rape certainly isn't one.

 

Now, because we, the audience, know she actually has a fully sentient personally hidden underneath her synth one it certainly creates more uncomfortability in how we see her treated than other synths we know to not have emotions. And I imagine this will set up issues down the line when Mia gets control of her body back,  but I have to totally disagree with your characterization of this situation.  

Edited August 11, 2015 by Captain I0

[henripootel]

No matter what Joe thinks of synth's level of sentience is, what he did is not.

Don't misunderstand me - when I said 'it only matters what joe thinks', I was speaking only of Joe's own motivations.  To me, they seem mixed up because Joe seems to think different things depending on what the plot requires.  Of course it matters whether or not Anita is sentient but we know things Joe doesn't, like the fact that she is apparently sentient.  Joe seems to think she is sometimes (like when he's examining her and feels bad for violating her modesty) and sometimes not (like when he has sex with her without regard to what she might think about it).  For me, this isn't Joe being confused, this is bad writing, worse because I think we're supposed to think Joe is basically a good guy.  I as a viewer am not so quick to overlook sexual assault just because Joe didn't 'know' at the time about Anita's sentience.  He obviously suspected something (and was bashful with her) and knew others would feel the same (he took steps to keep anyone from finding out about the sex).  I'm okay with him being a bad guy but I'm uncomfortable with him being presented as a 'good guy who made a mistake', which is what I think the writers are going for.

 

It's science fiction, so there isn't an apt allegory in real life.

I disagree - an allegory for real life is pretty much exactly what science fiction is.  Take a simple story, change one aspect of it (often a technological development), and see what that reveals about humanity and how people think.  In this case it's an interesting take on rape.  Is it rape if you molest something that just looks human but isn't? What if they don't mind getting raped because they're programmed not to mind?  Is that rape?  Is it the same as raping a human?  These are interesting questions and the existence of humanoid robots can examine people's real-life thinking on these questions, if the writers are smart about it. It's allegorical for the real-life problem of human sex trafficking, as it raises many of the same issues in a way that provides insight.