Figure Skating

[absnow54]

9 minutes ago, Tippi said:

Sorry for Jason and Adam.  Prefer Vincent's line and elegance to Ross, but Ross really gave the performance of his life.  USFSA has to really analyze this to see who can help out the most in the team event.  They can't wear out Nathan by having him skate SP and LP. 

See, that's why I get why they'd put Adam on the team for the team event, since he could cover the SP. But cutting Miner over Zhou is brutal, because Zhou has another two Olympics in him, and this is Miner's last shot. 

[Dots And Stripes]

3 minutes ago, Tippi said:

If Bradie is used for the SP and LP in the team event, and hits all her jumps and levels, she could make a pretty strong case for herself in front of the international judges. I could see her possibly making the final flight if all the chips went her way.

 

If the rules are the same as last time (you can use subs in two disciplines) I think it’s almost a given that Bradie/Mirai split the team event. Their scores were so close in the short program that it’s not likely to make such a differnece. Plus, I think you want both to conserve some energy and both to have a chance to gain some confidence on Olympic ice. 

The real question for me is do you let Nathan rest and sit out the team short? The pairs can’t be subbed. It kind of makes sense to let another ice dance team do the short as they we have 3 very competitive teams that are likely to place third in the team comp behind the Canadians and the French, so making a substitution there wouldn’t hurt the US. I think what it comes down to is do you do what’s best for Nathan or the team? What’s best for Nathan is probably only doing the long and what’s best for the team is using Nathan as much as possible. 

[displayname]

Well, the tier criteria pretty much laid this out.

[SophiaD]

Miner isn't even first alternate.  Jason Brown is.  Wow, that hurts.

If I were Ashley, I'd be fuming even more this morning.

[MaKaM]

Aaron got 3rd alternate. USAFS owes Miner big time. Worlds and 4CC? But I get dropping him for Rippon since they are chosing teams more like Gymnastics does--what have you done for me overall and how do you fit into this picture. Miner hasn't been making a case for himself for long enough. If he had been seriously nibbling at the edges for two years, he would be in a stronger place but... The US is unlikely to get a figure skating medal except in Ice Dance and maaaaaaybe Nathan (and isn't that  reversal of history) so they should just be trying to stem the bleeding at this point. They managed 3 spots for the Olympics and they should just work on keeping 3 spots until some stars emerge. And maybe an overhaul of whatever is going on in coaching in this country that is producing such headcases and underrotaters.

[Dots And Stripes]

17 minutes ago, SophiaD said:

Miner isn't even first alternate.  Jason Brown is.  Wow, that hurts.

If I were Ashley, I'd be fuming even more this morning.

Why should Ashley be fuming this morning? Adam made the Grand Prix final, she did not. Adam vs. Ross or Vincent is still a very different conversation than Ashley vs. Karen. Karen beat Ashley in several of the other events the committee is supposed to look at. Ashley already got selected over Mirai once, expecting it again would be madness. Ditto with Ashley hoping to get a spot over the new national champion. I don’t think it’s as simple as looking at reputation vs. nationals. Adam has a stronger recent track record than Ashley and was selected with someone with a weaker recent record than Karen or Mirai.

[Maelstrom]

Nathan, Adam and Vincent going to Olympics with Jason, Ross and Max as alternates. Official link: http://usfsa.org/story?id=91145&type=media

OK, this is some seriously fucked up shit here. Everyone knew that Nathan was going barring any injuries. The rest, to be frank, have zero chance at medalling or at even a top 5 finish internationally. Adam choked last night, plain and simple, and even on a good night his lone quad is hit or miss. Vincent may have raw talent for quads but is very much in the early trajectory of his career with little (any?) international experience on the senior level. Jason, don't get me wrong I love him dearly, has no quad as everyone frequently points out yet is named first alternate after a rough FS. Ross, the silver medalist, is second alternate? Granted his season hasn't gained much notice before last night but Nationals should either be the deciding factor across the board, or not. Period. Max had a terrible Nationals this year and makes third alternate. Ugh. Shit like this is why I get so disgusted with competitive figure skating. Unfortunately I live in podunk with no way to see any ice shows in person, so the televised crumbs of competitions are the only way I ever get to watch skating. 

OK, rant over, sorry everyone. This shit raises my blood pressure far more than it should.

Edited January 7, 2018 by Maelstrom

[Dots And Stripes]

3 minutes ago, MaKaM said:

Aaron got 3rd alternate. USAFS owes Miner big time. Worlds and 4CC? But I get dropping him for Rippon since they are chosing teams more like Gymnastics does--what have you done for me overall and how do you fit into this picture. Miner hasn't been making a case for himself for long enough. If he had been seriously nibbling at the edges for two years, he would be in a stronger place but... The US is unlikely to get a figure skating medal except in Ice Dance and maaaaaaybe Nathan (and isn't that  reversal of history) so they should just be trying to stem the bleeding at this point. They managed 3 spots for the Olympics and they should just work on keeping 3 spots until some stars emerge. And maybe an overhaul of whatever is going on in coaching in this country that is producing such headcases and underrotaters.

I don’t think the team event fully explains it. Even if they wanted Adam for the team short, there’s still the question of Vincent vs. Ross. Also, if Adam has a history of crumbling under pressure, he’s still a risk. If he US wants to do its best in the team event, they have to use Nathan for the short and the long. I’m not sure that they will, but I do think they’re considering that possibility. 

[iMonrey]

I feel really bad for Ross Miner after having the skate of his life at Nationals, winning Silver, and then not even making the Olympic team. What a bunch of bullshit. Look, you can admire the artistry of skaters like Adam Rippon or Jason Brown all you want, but the reality of today is that you need strong quads to medal at the Olympics and they just don't have them, period. I don't think I have ever seen Rippon land that quad lutz cleanly. Component scores aren't going to get you onto the Olympic podium. You can argue all you want about the sport having turned into a jumping competition but it is what it is. Rippon has no more chance at winning an Olympic medal than Miner does, and he simply did not deliver where it mattered. Why the selection committee thinks he'd do any better a month from now is baffling. Give it to the guy who earned it. 

[Moxie Cat]

Shocker: the Knierims are the pairs team going to the Olympics.

Wow, I can't wait to see which three dance teams will be named! The suspense is killing me.

[ombelico]

Placing Rippon on the Olympic team over Miner makes sense to me based on the criteria as set out and the fact that he did well on the GP circuit, but naming Jason Brown as first alternate over Miner is ridiculous. At this point, Jason is an engaging show skater who is simply never, ever going to be competitive. Forget the lack of a quad, he couldn't even land a clean triple Axel at nationals.

They have the same team list (and alternates order) for Worlds, too, which is also ridiculous. At least name Miner to that team, or make him first alternate so he gets to go if, say, Chen decides not to go to Worlds after the Olympics.

[Crs97]

I don’t enjoy watching Nathan since all he does is jump, I didn’t like Vincent’s programs, and I watched Adam choke after having to listen ad nauseum to reports of his bragging.  I guess I can focus on other events this Olympics because I could care less if the American men medal.

Edited January 7, 2018 by Crs97
Edited because Adam Rippon and Max Aaron are two different people. Thanks, Maelstrom!

[BelleBrit]

The Olympic team is not surprising. I thought that there would be a good chance they would split assignments and give Ross as a farewell gift/prize with a Worlds spot,, but apparently the only farewell gift went to Max,  who now gets to go to 4CC instead of Grant?!  Also don't agree with 1st alternate Jason Brown for BOTH worlds and Olympics. They should have at least given Ross first alternate for worlds.

Thinking more about the Ashley situation...I think that USFS/judges took a gamble when they went with Karen for US champion over Ashley last year.  They could have easily given Ashley national champion and called Karen's unders on the combo last year, but they didn't. Karen hasn't even earned a grand prix medal, like Bradie or even Mariah.  The gamble did not seem to be paying off after 4CC when Karen imploded/hasn't really paid off elsewhere, but when Karen was able to get 4th at worlds, maybe they thought "Hmmm, maybe we don't need Ashley and Gracie like we thought we did, if we get behind someone", and the the judges did not feel the need to fluff up Ashley's nationals scores as an insurance policy, like they had at other times...it does seem wrong to me that Starr only got three points less than Ashley in the long, all things considered. I think that Ashley's spin levels hurt her a lot. 

Edited January 7, 2018 by BelleBrit

[kitmerlot1213]

2 hours ago, specialj67 said:

In 2006, Michelle Kwan missed nationals (and the whole GP season, I think) to recuperate from an injury, and had to petition to be named to the team. They put her on the team and made Emily Hughes, the bronze medalist from nationals, the 1st alternate. However, Kwan ended up withdrawing before the start of the ladies competition, and Hughes got to compete anyway.

And didn't Michelle withdraw from the Olympics at the last minute, giving Emily Hughes a couple days notice before the short program was to start?  I always thought that was kind of crappy especially because Michelle had her chance at two previous Olympics and her waiting until the last minute didn't give Emily enough time to prepare.

I'm okay with Adam being named to the team over Ross Miner because Adam has proven himself internationally while Ross hasn't and I think USFSA believes that Nathan is our chance at medaling--I would love it if Adam skates up and wins a medal too :):)

Edited January 7, 2018 by kitmerlot1213

[MaKaM]

3 minutes ago, kitmerlot1213 said:

And didn't Michelle withdraw from the Olympics at the last minute, giving Emily Hughes a couple days notice before the short program was to start?  I always thought that was kind of crappy especially because Michelle had her chance at two previous Olympics.

I'm okay with Adam being named to the team over Ross Miner because Adam has proven himself internationally while Ross hasn't and I think USFSA believes that Nathan is our chance at medaling--I would love it if Adam skates up and wins a medal too :):)

Wait, you are simultaneously not okay with a skater with a stellar international reputation/results (5x World Champion, 2x Olympic medalist for instance) getting named to an Olympic team over a no-name and okay with a skater with a decent international reputation/results (a few top 20 Worlds results) getting named to an Olympic team over a no-name?

 

I am confused...

[Maelstrom]

18 minutes ago, Crs97 said:

I don’t enjoy watching Nathan since all he does is jump, I didn’t like Vincent’s programs, and I watched Aaron choke after having to listen ad nauseum to reports of his bragging.  I guess I can focus on other events this Olympics because I could care less if the American men medal.

Yup to all this (though I'm guessing you meant Adam, not Max Aaron?) Though I'll still have to watch the mens' event because of my (non-Jason) faves should all be there (Shoma, Yuzuru, Misha Ge, even Javi). But the US mens' team is a giant Don't Care for me this year.

[Tippi]

Ashley, Gracie, Jason, and Marissa Castelli are all Olympic bronze medallists due to the 2014 team event.  The team event gives skaters a chance at an Olympic medal that many would have no chance of getting as individual skaters.  With the strength of Nathan and the Shibs, with hopefully some strong support from Adam/Vincent and Bradie, the US team might be able to get bronze this year.  Russia is probably a lock for gold (unless the whole Russian participation affects that--I don't know how this will work), Canada will likely get silver, then it comes down to US vs Japan for the bronze.

[honeywest]

Quote

23 minutes ago, Maelstrom said:

 

 

24 minutes ago, Maelstrom said:

 

 

25 minutes ago, Maelstrom said:

I'll still have to watch the mens' event because of my (non-Jason) faves should all be there (Shoma, Yuzuru, Misha Ge, even Javi). But the US mens' team is a giant Don't Care for me this year.

 

Make that “Shoma, Javi, Misha Ge, even Yuzuru,” and I agree completely.

[ombelico]

Are the committees that select the teams made up of the same or different people for men's vs. women's events?

If they're composed of different people, I could see the women's committee weighing things differently than the men's. For example, no US women made the Grand Prix Final, and so came into Nationals more evenly matched (despite what people were saying about Ashley being a lock for the team) compared to the men's event, where Nathan was clearly ahead of everyone else, and Adam had made the Grand Prix Final with two GP silver medals. 

[MaKaM]

1 minute ago, PoshSprinkles said:

The “body of work” argument doesn’t hold water when you consider they’re sending Bradie for the women who has little to no work to show besides this national championships and a bronze medal at Skate America. It would have looked bad if they didn’t send her though, considering she skated very well and is the current US champion. 

I’ve always believed picking team members for any subjective sport is always political and determined in advance. Look at gymnastics and all the drama that went down with their 2016 team selection. Their policy was “who’s ready right now” and not body of work, but many felt they went back on this with their team selection. 

I think you can make both "body of work" argument and a "what have you done for me lately" argument. Bradie has nothing to show other than 7th at Jr, worlds a GP medal, and now a National title. Her "lately" outweighs her "body of work" portion. You can't really punish her for not making the GP final since she only had one assignment and for not having a deeper body of work since she just went senior. It is a balance and I am betting they are just gambling on who will bring in some advertising dollars. Adam is definitely higher on "body of work" and his "lately" is a bit uneven but still superior. It makes sense. It sucks, but it makes sense. In a subjective sport, you make teams by either being indispensable (winning events) or being engaging enough to bring in sponsors and good enough to not embarrass your federation. Frankly, I'm surprised they didn't find a way to put Jason directly on the team--he's the most marketable one after Nathan due to his charming personality and engaging smile.

[Dots And Stripes]

3 minutes ago, MaKaM said:

I think you can make both "body of work" argument and a "what have you done for me lately" argument. Bradie has nothing to show other than 7th at Jr, worlds a GP medal, and now a National title. Her "lately" outweighs her "body of work" portion. You can't really punish her for not making the GP final since she only had one assignment and for not having a deeper body of work since she just went senior. It is a balance and I am betting they are just gambling on who will bring in some advertising dollars. Adam is definitely higher on "body of work" and his "lately" is a bit uneven but still superior. It makes sense. It sucks, but it makes sense. In a subjective sport, you make teams by either being indispensable (winning events) or being engaging enough to bring in sponsors and good enough to not embarrass your federation. Frankly, I'm surprised they didn't find a way to put Jason directly on the team--he's the most marketable one after Nathan due to his charming personality and engaging smile.

I agree except for the bit about marketability. That shouldn’t be in the equation. Besides, NBC has shown they’re excellent at creating storylines. They’ll find a way to market a handful of skaters no matter who US Figure skating chooses.

[MostlyC]

I cynically wonder if some of the US skaters will be (understandably) tired from the Olympics and withdraw from Worlds (like Yuna Kim did after she won her gold), leaving a spot  (or two) for the alternates.  The odds are against it, but I wonder nonetheless.

Have they announced 4CC yet?

[Moxie Cat]

17 minutes ago, MostlyC said:

Have they announced 4CC yet?

Jason Brown, Ross Miner, Max Aaron.

I doubt that Nathan and Vincent would withdraw from World's. I imagine that Nathan wants to redeem last year's performance (and, potentially, build on an Olympic medal) and IIRC it is Vincent's first opportunity. Who knows with Adam - it would be graceful if he stepped aside to give Ross that opportunity, but Jason is first alternate.

[kitmerlot1213]

1 hour ago, MaKaM said:

Wait, you are simultaneously not okay with a skater with a stellar international reputation/results (5x World Champion, 2x Olympic medalist for instance) getting named to an Olympic team over a no-name and okay with a skater with a decent international reputation/results (a few top 20 Worlds results) getting named to an Olympic team over a no-name?

 

I am confused...

No confusion, just my personal preferences--I am not an uber Michelle Kwan fan. never was, so I don't think she has a "stellar international reputation/results"--there were many times I think MK was over-marked, so yes, when she was named to the 2006 Olympic team on reputation alone and then withdraw shortly before the games began, I thought it was crappy to do that to the alternate Emily Hughes, especially because Kwan had been to two previous Olympics and she knows how nerve-wracking that can be for a skater.

As far Adam Rippon, I like him, I like his moxie, and his sassiness and that he keeps improving himself artistically and technically.  He has also been a presence for the US men for quite some time so I love that this 28 year old will be a first time Olympian.   I  hope he does well.

[MaKaM]

7 minutes ago, kitmerlot1213 said:

No confusion, just my personal preferences--I am not an uber Michelle Kwan fan. never was, so I don't think she has a "stellar international reputation/results"--there were many times I think MK was over-marked, so yes, when she was named to the 2006 Olympic team on reputation alone and then withdraw shortly before the games began, I thought it was crappy to do that to the alternate Emily Hughes, especially because Kwan had been to two previous Olympics and she knows how nerve-wracking that can be for a skater.

Yeah but she withdrew because she re-injured herself--not exactly something can plan a few weeks earlier. It wasn't like she was thinking "when can I withdraw to screw over that other skater" or something.

[legaleagle53]

THIS, ladies and gentlemen, is what being a good sport looks like:

Well done, Jason!

[Jeddah]

Poor Ross. This is just a terrible message to send skaters. For some skaters, no matter how they do at Nationals, they are not going to the Olympics. They won’t even be first alternate for the Olympics. I wish Ross had known going into Nationals that nothing he did would matter. US Figure Skating only gave him one Grand Prix assignment, and then basically penalized him for that.

Edited January 7, 2018 by Jeddah

[Dots And Stripes]

Watching the replay on NBC, Ross was my favorite skating performance in long time. It had a sense of fun most skaters save for exhibitions. I’m disappointed I won’t get to see him perform it next month. 

[Moxie Cat]

30 minutes ago, legaleagle53 said:

THIS, ladies and gentlemen, is what being a good sport looks like:

At the 2014 Olympics, Jason came in 10th, and one of the reporters asked him if he was disappointed. Instead he said, "are you kidding? I made the top 10!" I was so impressed with his attitude then and have never forgotten that moment. He knew in the K&C last night that it was all on him (unlike some others). 

What I wish for Jason, though, is that he'd be a little harder on himself. It's one thing to accept that you blew it. It's another to let that motivate you to do better and work harder. The latter is what I think he is missing. He loves to skate and perform, but I'm not sure, deep down, if he really cares if he gets a quad anymore because that's not the most important thing to him. Unfortunately, that's what men's skating has become.

[legaleagle53]

1 minute ago, Moxie Cat said:

At the 2014 Olympics, Jason came in 10th, and one of the reporters asked him if he was disappointed. Instead he said, "are you kidding? I made the top 10!" I was so impressed with his attitude then and have never forgotten that moment. He knew in the K&C last night that it was all on him (unlike some others). 

Yes.  I didn't want to name any names, but I definitely had a certain female singles skater in mind when I posted that tweet of Jason's.  I'll let the other posters figure out for themselves at whom I was looking when I wrote my comment.

[carrier76]

It’s a real mystery. Who could it be?????

[Bewitched]

At this point, I'm willing to believe they picked Jason as the alternate just to prevent any further drama among the team members.  He's (at least publicly) a team player and maybe he can work with Vincent on being a little more lyrical.  Sometimes its about the intangibles, and if for some bizarre reason he had to compete, his SP isn't terrible if he can land his big jump.

[displayname]

I like Vincent's performance quality. He isn't perfect (needs work on skating skills), but I can see him emoting, and he tries. He won't be medaling this year, just like everybody else on the American team except the Shibs and Nathan (he'll likely be a huge contender 4 years down), so I'm glad he was chosen over Brown.

Edited January 7, 2018 by fan94

[carrier76]

I am going to enjoy watching Nathan and Vincent this cycle.

[attica]

It would be one thing if Nationals were the team determinant, but it isn't. And all the competitors know that going in. So I disagree that Miner's exclusion sends a terrible message.

[Jeddah]

2 minutes ago, attica said:

It would be one thing if Nationals were the team determinant, but it isn't. And all the competitors know that going in. So I disagree that Miner's exclusion sends a terrible message.

I know it’s not the team determinant. But in Ross’s case it didn’t seem to hold any weight. Surely Nationals should count for something.

[Dots And Stripes]

Woah! Shibs are not going to be national champions. At least they will not be a question mark for getting to the Olympics. This might complicate things for the team event though. 

[BelleBrit]

One way that I think the body of work thing can get tricky is...some people just naturally seem to peak later in the season than others. Some do better during the grand prix season and then kind of fizzle out by the time they make it to worlds. IDK. Ross definitely deserved at least ONE of the first alternate spots for either worlds or Olympics...

Another thing, someone on Golden Skate posted a few months ago that the USFS members only section of their website listed more information on the selection process, and I believe said that progression (using charts/graphs) and improvement throughout the season and detailed results sheets  from competitions are closely looked at during the selection meetings.  In the press conference yesterday, the USFS president said that Bradie did not "miss an element" all season, and then mentioned the specific elements (spin levels) that held back Ashley's scores this time at nationals. Even though Bradie only had one grand prix, she had a few senior Bs,  I think that the judges pushed for her so hard here  because they knew they needed a lady who could skate a clean short in the team event. I think they'll split the team event and use Bradie for the short and Mirai for the long.  You  lose more points by getting behind in the short, and even if Mirai came in last in the free skate, it doesn't affect the overall score as much.  I think they'll split the teams in general (Nathan for short, Adam for long? Though not sure after last night...), but who knows. 

[displayname]

20 hours ago, Jeddah said:

I know it’s not the team determinant. But in Ross’s case it didn’t seem to hold any weight. Surely Nationals should count for something.

It's inconsistently applied for sure. Polina Edmunds made it, but not Miner. In 2014, Polina should have been left off and Ashley/Mirai/Gracie should've been it (not least because Polina was not even that good -- like Bradie, especially when you consider she has a similar body of work as Polina did in 2014).

 

I think it's really up to whom the USFSA likes. But the criteria themselves are clear.

 

I think Miner should have been confirmed for one of the major ones, apart from 4CC, at least. But honestly, I'm fine with the Olympics team. Miner should at least be first alternate for Worlds.

EDIT -- NVM, Polina did well in the junior circuit. That team was fine, then.

Edited January 8, 2018 by fan94

[Dots And Stripes]

At least the top 3 ice dance teams all made the podium. Shib sibs need to do some more fixing on their free dance.

[specialj67]

That was a surprising result in the free dance! Only a half of a point or so separating the top 3. So jazzed Hubbell and Donohue won it—their free dance is my fave of this season. I’m only disappointed the Shibs couldn’t do a three-peat. That stumble toward the end of their program was so unlike them.

i love all 3 of the top U.S. teams and would be pleased for any of them to medal at the Olympics next month, though the Shibs are my sentimental faves.

[MrsClaus]

Do any of the men besides Chen have a realistic chance at a medal?

[displayname]

3 minutes ago, MrsClaus said:

Do any of the men besides Chen have a realistic chance at a medal?

No.

[kitmerlot1213]

3 minutes ago, specialj67 said:

That was a surprising result in the free dance! Only a half of a point or so separating the top 3. So jazzed Hubbell and Donohue won it—their free dance is my fave of this season. I’m only disappointed the Shibs couldn’t do a three-peat. That stumble toward the end of their program was so unlike them.

i love all 3 of the top U.S. teams and would be pleased for any of them to medal at the Olympics next month, though the Shibs are my sentimental faves.

This has been the craziest National championship and while I feel badly for the Shibs, I couldn't be prouder of Hubbell and Donohue for taking their free skate and running with it--they were so gorgeously intense and  H/D just smoldered.  WOO HOO!!  All three teams should do well at the Olympics.

[MostlyC]

How many Ice Dancing Teams can go to the Olympics for the USA?

[ombelico]

3 Ice Dance teams can go to the Olympics, and they will certainly be the top 3 from nationals, barring injury or other unforeseen circumstance.

[annzeepark914]

Wow - the looks on the faces of the Shibs both after their FD and then when they learned they were not a three-peat champion team.  I wonder what's going on.  Their FD had to be changed since the GP finale. Why?   I have to confess I was pulling for anyone but H/D to win today (I think their training up in Montreal has brought about a new "attitude", one I don't care for...but that's just IMO).  So, although I loved getting to see so much figure skating this long weekend (hey, starting Wednesday night for goodness sakes!!), I'm not all that thrilled with the results (except I knew Nathan would win and rightfully so; hope he wins the Olympic gold next month).  Looking forward to the O's (what time will we be getting them? in 2014, I was glued to NBCSN every morning and loving it).

[redpencil]

Quote

They have the same team list (and alternates order) for Worlds, too, which is also ridiculous. At least name Miner to that team, or make him first alternate so he gets to go if, say, Chen decides not to go to Worlds after the Olympics.

Worlds determines the number of spots next year, so it's not too surprising that they stuck with the same team as Olympics. They've been bitten in the past and lost spots. You really don't want to find yourself with only two spots next year. Not keeping that in mind would be malpractice on the fed's part and could hurt the men's team next year (and possibly beyond).

As for the team, I think they made the right choice, though I would have flipped the alternates (hopefully that doesn't end up mattering). All skaters and all coaches knew going in that Nationals didn't guarantee you anything, and they had a very specific list of tiered events that would be looked at, of which Nationals was just one. This was not a surprise to anyone. As for those saying that only Nathan has a chance at a medal, so why does it matter, I think it matters in principle. They've specifically said that their goal is to send the skaters with the best chance of a medal. Sure, Adam's chances may be low, but they're quite a bit higher than Ross's chances, and Ross doesn't have anything to show in any of the other stated criteria that they used. So, Nationals does count for something, but in Ross's case, that's almost literally all he had going for him. Both Adam and Vincent had success in multiple other events that were part of the criteria.

Side note, I was there in person last night and LOVED Ross's skate. But I still think this is the right decision. Also, I know Vincent has a ways to go artistically (and he needs to fix those under-rotations), but he also captured the entire arena with that performance. He got one of the very few immediate standing O's of the night. His first jump combo (one of his clean quads) was one of the most spectacular jumping passes I've ever seen. Nathan also has a presence that I think maybe doesn't always come across on tv. I think the criticisms about his artistry are often overstated. He maybe doesn't always emote or project the feeling of the program as well as other skaters, but he has beautiful posture/lines, his skating skills are top notch, he has difficult transitions, etc. (all of which is part of the PCS score). I will say that I think his short program allows him to connect a bit more than the long. That short program is brilliant, and you can tell how much he feels it (plus it has my favorite footwork sequence of any skater this season). It has a cool, modern vibe that really suits him.

 

ETA: The other program that really surprised lower down in the standings was Tomoki Hiwatashi. He wasn't shown on tv, so I'd encourage everyone to check it out; it was immensely entertaining. He also got a standing ovation. He must have had a rough SP, as he was 15th going in, but his FS was 7th and he finished 11th overall. He's only 17, so hopefully we see a lot of him going forward. He was named to the worlds junior team, so I hope he does well.

Edited January 8, 2018 by redpencil

[blackwing]

Two questions:

1) Why do the allegedly "clean" Russian athletes get to call themselves "Olympic Athlete from Russia"?   Russia was banned, so they don't get to send a team.  But it seems ridiculous to me that there will still be a Russian team, it's just semantics that they are called "OAR" and not "Russia".  The only difference is we will see the Olympic flag and theme if any of them win.  

Two years ago when there were those refugees from places like South Sudan, they competed as "Independent Athlete" or something like that under the Olympic flag.  Why not the same treatment?  Russia isn't allowed to compete so all of these people from Russia should be treated as independent athletes.  The media had better not list "OAR" in the medal standings.

 

2) Does the absence of Russia mean that no race/judging officials from Russia are allowed to participate?  If so, good.  I still remember four years ago when that little blond Russian girl was all but anointed as the gold medalist, and then she did horribly in the free skate.  So the judges obviously overscored the other one so that Russia would win the gold for ladies figure skating.  It was so obvious and atrocious.  How come there was never any media attention  like what happened to Sale and Pelletier?

[AuntieDiane6]

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I’m so over Adam Rippon. It will suck if he gets the Olympic spot over Ross. And how ironic that Mark Mitchell is his coach. No wonder skating’s popularity is on the toilet. 

That's not the reason.  Nobody's heard of Ross Miner.  The problem is that figure skating is too old-fashioned and the stars quit too early.  When I hear yet another skater use PEGGY FLEMING's music while dressed in a costume Peggy's mother wore, it's difficult to attract anyone younger than 50.  And nobody enjoys watching the splatfest.