Figure Skating

[SophiaD]

I am so heartbroken for Adam right now.  Good job, Ross, but I really wanted Adam to make the team.  :'(

[Bewitched]

I know Karen Chen had a stomach virus.  Maybe she passed it around and they ran out of energy?  Otherwise, it's a nightmare for the men.

[SophiaD]

Jason is in FIFTH right now.  No way he makes the team, not after this season.  What a crappy way to end the evening.  I hope Nathan stays focused and together.

[Moxie Cat]

Jason Brown. WTF. I was a huge Jason supporter in 2014. He was just the cutest thing and so positive. But where is the progress? It is so frustrating. 

Guessing that either Ross or Vincent will get bumped for Adam. Nothing against Vincent, but I hope Ross gets to go. I'm all for veteran/older skaters having a good year and I love that Queen routine.

[irisheyes]

4 minutes ago, PoshSprinkles said:

So they're the Russian women's gymnastics team? 

Or, most of the US women.  Watching the women lately makes me long for the days of Michelle Kwan. 

[alexa]

I feel that Adam had no reason to miss those jumps.  I would be disappointed if he bumps someone off of the team. I was rooting for him but he just lost it at the end. 

[Dots And Stripes]

2 minutes ago, Moxie Cat said:

Jason Brown. WTF. I was a huge Jason supporter in 2014. He was just the cutest thing and so positive. But where is the progress? It is so frustrating. 

Guessing that either Ross or Vincent will get bumped for Adam. Nothing against Vincent, but I hope Ross gets to go. I'm all for veteran/older skaters having a good year and I love that Queen routine.

I agree with all of this. I remember hearing in 2014 that Jason was ok not having the quad yet because it would come in time. It's frustrating to see that it hasn't. Then again, Vincent did too many quads he couldn't handle. I think that's another reason I liked Ross (in addition to having great music); he fit more of a happy medium. 

[Bewitched]

It's frustrating to me as a very casual watcher.  The only skater that I would pay to see is Jason Brown because I love his artistry and interpretation of the music.  I totally understand that he has no chance to medal so I'm fine with leaving him off the team but I hate that it happened with him splatting all over the place.  He didn't play to his strengths, he tried to play to the judges and it ruined his style and his ability to perform.

I think it's Chen, Zhou, and a toss-up between Rippon and Minor.

[Crs97]

Unpopular opinion - Nathan is clearly a great skater but I think his artistry is sorely lacking.  Sure, he wins gold but Ross was much more enjoyable.  Nathan to me just seems to skate between jumps rather than interpret the music.

[specialj67]

I feel bad for hoping that the committee picks Adam over Ross for the Olympic team, but I can’t help it! Adam has the international results of this season to warrant it.

Happy to see Nathan defend his title, but his LP just doesn’t do it for me as much as his SP. His LP costume does (way more than that minimalist Tron cosplay thing he wore for his SP).

as for the other also-rans of the evening, I feel for Grant and Jason. Jason hasn’t underperformed that badly at a nationals LP in awhile—I wonder if it was just the pressure? And it was too bad Grant couldn’t replicate the magic of 2016. I hope he gets named to the 4CC team and gives it his all.

Edited January 7, 2018 by specialj67

[gatopretoNYC]

Well, my joy from last night for Mirai, has turned to sadness for Jason, and to a lesser extent Adam, as I think they will still send Adam. But Jason has really been my favorite skater for the last several years. I'm so bummed. :(

[displayname]

So happy for the top 3! Especially 2 time national champ Nathan!

[Maelstrom]

5 minutes ago, Crs97 said:

Unpopular opinion - Nathan is clearly a great skater but I think his artistry is sorely lacking.  Sure, he wins gold but Ross was much more enjoyable.  Nathan to me just seems to skate between jumps rather than interpret the music.

You’re not alone. I can see that Nathan has made huge improvements in his artistry just since last season, but he’s still nowhere near the level of artists like Jason IMO. And I’m so bummed for Jason right now, it’s just heartbreaking :(

[gatopretoNYC]

5 minutes ago, Crs97 said:

Unpopular opinion - Nathan is clearly a great skater but I think his artistry is sorely lacking.  Sure, he wins gold but Ross was much more enjoyable.  Nathan to me just seems to skate between jumps rather than interpret the music.

I feel the same. I found myself bored with him in between the jumps.

[Dots And Stripes]

I loved watching Nathan. I kind of wish he would stay away from the all black costumes because it gives me Lysacek flashbacks. 

So who goes to the Olympics? Unlike Ashley, I think Adam has recent results that justify taking someone else off. There seems to be a lot of enthusiasm for Vincent. As a viewer, I didn't' care for him. He felt like a cliche. So many men failing at quad attempts and using the same music. I also wonder if the committee will remember that in 2014, they were saying Polina and Jason were the future. That didn't quite pan out. I want to see Nathan, Ross, and Adam go, but I think it will be Nathan Vincent and Adam.

[Moxie Cat]

Adam is the epitome of "he earned it during the season." If performance throughout the season is a criteria for getting a spot (as we are often reminded), he should absolutely get it. I didn't see anything special in Zhou during the GP, but Adam delivered and made it to the finals too.

And if you're going to bump someone, shouldn't it be the third place finisher?

Edited January 7, 2018 by Moxie Cat

[displayname]

4 minutes ago, Maelstrom said:

You’re not alone. I can see that Nathan has made huge improvements in his artistry just since last season, but he’s still nowhere near the level of artists like Jason IMO. And I’m so bummed for Jason right now, it’s just heartbreaking :(

I think it lacks in comparison to Rippon and Brown, who've both had more experience. 

 

But really, look at him otherwise. Look at his exhibition galas. Look at his skating in the programs, especially in comparison to skaters who aren't 4+ years older than him. Plus he has the jumps over all of them.

 

I think he holds up against the Olympic squad, too. Yuzuru, Shoma, Boyang, Javier, Patrick. It's not the best on both, or the best on one that counts. Nathan might be the best jumper, so his being a good artist is enough, IMO. Of course, Yuzuru might be the best on both ends... And Shoma can turn it on sometimes.

Edited January 7, 2018 by fan94

[Misslindsey]

51 minutes ago, CeeBeeGee said:

The ever-tacky and unartistic Plushenko, no? God, he's embarrassing. So glad Evan smoked his ass in Vancouver. I relished his pissyfit as well.

I always try to block Plushy out of my mind. That pelvic thrust routine that he did traumatized me. I never minded Evan, so I was glad he won. Though, that olympics I was hoping for anyone but Plushy to win.

[displayname]

5 minutes ago, PoshSprinkles said:

I just wish they'd quit hyping Nathan up. He has a good shot at bronze, but if Yuzu, Shoma, and Jin show up he has NO shot at gold unless all three of them are a dumpster fire. 

I personally think he has the jumps over Shoma and the artistry over Jin, so it's really only Yuzuru he has to worry about.

[CherryMalotte]

The description that came to my mind while watching Rippon was 'tight' or 'nerved up' - something seemed off and while I normally dig the artistry he can put into it, it was almost if you could see him mentally reciting to himself skate skate jump forward wave arm...he just seemed to much in his head.  It was sad to watch especially since I loved his short program so much.  Jason on the other hand, love him, but yeah he's a show guy now, enjoyable to watch, crowd pleasing, but not really among the highest caliber of skaters.  Shame too, he's such a likable dude.

I'm neither here nor there with Chen - jumps are wonderful, but you need to make it look in between all those quads and triples.  Otherwise it's a bore and a snore.  If he could just turn up that artistic side a touch or two he'd be near perfect.

[annzeepark914]

I hope they send the top three men to the O's.  I sure don't want to endure another switcheroo (like in 2014) and have to hear about it, ad nauseum, for the next 8 years.  If Adam couldn't pull off a pristeen LP here at Nationals, how will be do it with the world watching in Pyeongchang?  At least Ross has a quad now (and let's hope he holds onto it!!)

[displayname]

...Why?

[specialj67]

1 minute ago, fan94 said:

...Why?

 

IDK, but the mullet is splendid.

[Moxie Cat]

6 minutes ago, fan94 said:

I personally think he has the jumps over Shoma and the artistry over Jin, so it's really only Yuzuru he has to worry about.

This is true, but with the addition: if he lands his jumps. See: 2017 Worlds.

Shoma, Jin, Chan, and Javi, and even Hanyu, have all had their off nights. It all depends on THAT night. (As we saw tonight!) Nathan is capable of hanging with them for sure, but he has to hold it together.

[BlackberryJam]

I always found Plushy hilariously entertaining. I'd watch a ridiculous Plushy over a splat-fest Jason Brown anyday.

[Jeddah]

I think the people who deliver at Nationals should get to go to the Olympics, and I’m going to be so disappointed for Ross or Vincent if either of them get bumped.

Ross was not on my radar, but he picked the right time to peak! I love the Queen music.

Adam just threw it away. He seemed so ready and confident before this. What happened? Falls would have been more understandable than just not even trying two jumps.

Nathan is awesome. That kid is the real deal. I hate the zippers on the costume though.

Jason is such a beautiful skater even with errors.

[All That Jazz]

Just some thoughts from being a figure skating fan for decades. I remember when Rudy Galindo and Kristi Yamaguchi were robbed of a national pairs title when the sentimental favorites went splat so many times. The explanation was that they had to "wait their turn." Sigh. The evolution of the points system slightly improved the scoring system. It was harder to hide favoritism by the judges. But it's still there. Sure, it's easy to feel an emotional connection to a skater or a pair and root for them. And maybe you have an emotional disconnect from other skaters and it's easy to disparage their character. Who knows, maybe the skaters you "hate" kick puppies.  But EVERY skater who competed has dedicated years or decades of their lives to the sport.  Give them a frickin break. I wish the US could send five men to the Olympics. The reality is that only three can go. I wish there were an objective standard for figure skating like there is in the 100 meters. But there isn't and never will be. It's a subjective decision from emotionally biased judges because they are human. I feel so much sympathy for the skaters who blew their chance at the Olympics. It will haunt them forever.  If I were Ashley, I'd be pissed and so would you. Jason would win a competition that disallowed quads, but that's not the real world.

But... congrats to all who make the cut. And Starr is just adorable, I fully admit I am prejudiced in her favor.

[honeywest]

I couldn’t enjoy the men’s free skate because Tara and Johnny were annoying me so much. (Especially Tara.) I like Nathan Chen—I have ever since he was a little kid predicting he’d go to the 2018 Olympics—but NBC is cramming him down our throats. Terry Gannon even compared him to Dick Button. Really, Terry? Dick Button is there; you want to say that to his face?

 

And Jason Brown, whom I’d rather watch than any other American man (and some of the foreign men, too). I respect his devotion to Kori Ade, but maybe he needs a jump coach. Someone like Tom Z. I’m so happy Mirai made the team.

 

Too much braggadocio: Rippon, Cain and Leduc, Hubbell and Donohue (whom I love, but not as much as I love the Shibutanis). Don’t come in announcing you intend to win gold and won’t be satisfied with less. (Lots of non-Ashley Bridgestone ads tonight.)

 

It just occurred to me: Wasn’t Joshua Farris planning to come back this season?

[displayname]

44 minutes ago, honeywest said:

It just occurred to me: Wasn’t Joshua Farris planning to come back this season?

He's undergoing therapy to have his right side and his right eye work properly :(

 

Edited January 7, 2018 by fan94

[movingtargetgal]

1 hour ago, movingtargetgal said:

I saw Plushenko perform Sex Bomb in person....it was really personal for me.  He climbed up into the audience and gyrated about 18 inches from my face.  I was so embarrassed.  The friends that were with me have yet to let me live it down. 

I forgot to mention that it was really hot in the new Boston Garden that night and Plushenko's was really sweaty....and yes some of that sweat did land on me as he was gyrating.  I am having Plushy flashbacks.

[Silverglitter]

I'm a long time fan of skating, but COP has turned me into a 'just pay attention during the Olympics' fan. COP was supposed to fix a lot of things, but it's just almost completely destroyed the sport for me. Artistry has been killed. For the most part, the only real 'artists' are the skaters who can't even get close to top 10.

Papadakis & Cizeron are the only Ice Dancers than can compare for me since Anissina & Peizerat. And pairs is the only discipline that doesn't completely disappoint me.

[Moxie Cat]

Oh man, I didn't know that about Josh Farris. I was actually thinking of him tonight, how a couple years ago his name was right in there with Aaron, Miner, Hochstein, etc. I remember thinking, this guy is who we need to get a lot of girls interested in figure skating, lol! That really sucks that that happened to him - how horrible.

I bet that selection committee is trying to figure how how to rationalize subbing in both Adam and Jason. (Adam for sure, I just would guess they expected Jason to get third.)

I agree that Jason needs a new coach, just for the push it might give him.

[honeywest]

Oh, I’m sorry to hear that about Joshua Farris. I couldn’t imagine how he could make a comeback after all his injuries, but I didn’t know he was in such bad shape. I always liked his skating.

[HartofDixie]

1 hour ago, alexa said:

I feel that Adam had no reason to miss those jumps.  I would be disappointed if he bumps someone off of the team. I was rooting for him but he just lost it at the end. 

I wonder if Ashley not getting named to the team affected his performance. I wish they waited until Sunday night/Monday morning to announce the entire team.

[NUguy514]

That Ice Network article was about a hundred times more incisive and balanced than Brennan's Wagner-worship-fest.  Wagner didn't make the team because she didn't skate well enough this week and hasn't skated well enough all season.  The end.  It's like Brennan didn't even notice the multiple errors in Wagner's routine.

Evgeny Plushenko is but one of many human forms the devil takes to walk among and torture the rest of us unrelentingly.

[displayname]

Alexei Krasnozhon and Andrew Torgashev might become the next athlete vs artist story. I liked both of them.

 

(And also Rach 2 is forever Mao's and Tango de Roxanne is forever Yuna's. Just stop skating to them.)

Edited January 7, 2018 by fan94

[legaleagle53]

4 hours ago, specialj67 said:

IDK, but the mullet is splendid.

1986 called.  It wants you back!

[BelleBrit]

That was one wild ride in the men's event! I have no idea what decision the selection committee will make, I could see it going several ways. I'm glad that Nathan did not flop all over the ice (even though he would definitely still be going to the Olympics even if he had), it was just one of those nights where crazy stuff was happening. He ended the night on a good note for everyone. 

Ross-I really enjoyed his performance, and isn't nationals supposed to count for anything? It would be much more straight forward if he had come in 3rd, but he came in 2nd, they have to at least send him to worlds if he's not going to the Olympics. However, this (nationals) is also the only selection committee tier criteria on the list that he will have been competitive at. 

Vincent-He is the future, but he had a very disappointing grand prix debut, and to see him under rotate his quads wasn't unexpected.  However, I thought one of the quads was judged harshly and should have been called clean (the rest were definitely under), which could have been the difference here. The calling was not consistent, which always seems to happen at nationals (but also at international events a lot tbh).  I also don't agree with sending people just because they are the "future" and need Olympic experience (see Polina). However, he came in 2nd at nationals last year and was already passed over for 2017 worlds in favor of Jason Brown. Then he went to JR Worlds and got gold. I don't remember anyone on his team complaining last year about not getting worlds-I think that they were realistic about his goals, and were happy with JR worlds-but it seems tough for him to finish in the top three again and not get sent. 

Adam-He had fire in his eyes all season, and last night before his long program, I saw a lot of doubt in his eyes. But I was still shocked to see the two pops, even though he wasn't that solid at the grand prix final.  Did Ashley's situation spook him/did his pre-nationals swagger come back to haunt him? I think it is more likely than not that he is still going to the Oympics based upon the selection criteria, but it would have been a lot easier for the committee if Ross had finished in third instead of second.

Jason-Wow. I was expecting to see a number of minor errors, but do well  enough to hold him up for maybe third (with nationals scoring). So to see him implode was a bit surprising, but also not entirely unexpected? At least by placing 6th, the selection committee shouldn't have to deal with him in the equation. He'll go to 4CC.

Re: Christine Brennan's articles about Ashley and scoring.  She has been vocal in the past that Ashley Wagner is one of her most favorite athletes to cover from a personality standpoint. She also clearly has a lot of admiration for what she has contributed to the sport.  But I started to get suspicious last week when Brennan came out with an article to preview nationals and said that all of the US ladies were evenly matched going into nationals, but that the only one who has earned the right to be at the Olympics (not only that, but to perform in the team event) was Ashley Wagner, based on her status and contributions/being the most decorated US ladies skater for the past few years. If you follow figure skating, you should know that Ashley's status was far more vulnerable going into this nationals, specifically because she had been under-performing and this was probably one of the first nationals in a long time where her achievements on the list of selection criteria were not significantly better than the other US ladies in the field. Nationals would matter a lot more this time around.  And now Christine seems absolutely obsessed with Ashley's scoring-she just tweeted in response to the men's event that the problem would be solved if they gave two of the spots to Nathan, and the third (men's) spot to Ashley. Yes, it was a joke, but it's getting eye roll inducing at this point.  Does Ashley have a case to make that the scoring was wonky? Yes. But Christine keeps trying to make it about Bradie vs Ashley and component scores, when it was really Karen vs Ashley.  I think that Ashley should have scored higher than Karen (someone did an average of the inflation for each lady in PCS vs what they got in PCs at the grand prix, and Karen's was like 10 points higher in her total score) and made the team over her, but I've also read accounts from people who were in the audience that Karen's performance with the unders and repeat program was still more impactful/faster than Ashley's.  Ashley seemed to think she was a lock, she was already talking about "going back to the drawing board" and getting an new SP after nationals, after her sp. Christine's article states that she had talked to "experts/insiders" two weeks ago who had said Ashley was a lock as long as she did not implode.  Given that Ashley had not made the gpf or anything, isn't that suspect? Ashley is deserving of some of the PCs, but she also has weak points (transitions), and her PCs scores lately seemed to be more about reputation than rewarding what was on the ice.  I feel for her, but I also think that she should have just let Raf politic for her behind the scenes instead of just lashing out. She lashed out at the last Olympics and when she was told that her performance contained an under, she replied "I'll have to look at the protocols".  I also think that there is a lot more going on in the background, and that maybe she feels frustrated because she had been doing a lot of promotion for the Olympics and usfs, that could have compromised her training time.  This is a fickle sport. I read that of the top eight ladies who placed at 2015 Worlds, Satoko is the only one who made it to this Olympics. If Ashley is a competitor, she should really go to 4CC this time and not skip it for once. 

Edited January 7, 2018 by BelleBrit

[Moxie Cat]

I'm tired of seeing the argument that Vincent should go to gain experience and because he is "the future." No. You earn a spot based on your past performance. He has some good past performances and some not so good. We sent Polina and Jason in 2014 in much the same way, and how did that pan out? Conversely, Nathan Chen never had to attend an Olympics to "gain experience." He's going because he flat-out earned it over the past couple years. If they decide to send Vincent, it should be because of his finish last night and because the selection committee is satisfied with his previous work. But let's get rid of this "he's young, he's our future, so he should go" reasoning.

Looking around the interwebs, I'm surprised how many people are saying that Adam shouldn't get the spot because last night showed he cracks under pressure.

Announcement is at 11:15 am on Sunday. Clearly taking more time than the ladies did.

[annzeepark914]

9 hours ago, honeywest said:

Too much braggadocio: Rippon, Cain and Leduc, Hubbell and Donohue (whom I love, but not as much as I love the Shibutanis). Don’t come in announcing you intend to win gold and won’t be satisfied with less. (Lots of non-Ashley Bridgestone ads tonight.)

 

Oh, yeah!  It was getting really annoying after a while, hearing those quoted comments, especially coming from Adam Rippon.  So y'all won't be satisfied with less than gold at Nationals?  I realize they say that stuff to puff themselves up to face their competition (& bolster their nerves), but for goodness sakes, quit allowing the media to quote you with these inane comments. 

Here's hoping they go with the podium skaters.  Other than 2014, I just don't recall any skater substitutes for the Olympic teams (unless an alternate had to fill in due to injury).  Did this happen in the past and I just can't remember?  And that holier than thou phrase, "body of work" is really getting on my last, very sensitive nerve!

P.S. I did really admire Hubbell & Donohue until I saw the unpleasant expressions on their faces when they didn't beat the Shibs in the SD (which reminded me of another ice dancing team's behavior in the past).  Go ShibSibs!!!

Edited January 7, 2018 by annzeepark914

[specialj67]

17 minutes ago, annzeepark914 said:

Other than 2014, I just don't recall any skater substitutes for the Olympic teams (unless an alternate had to fill in due to injury)

In 2006, Michelle Kwan missed nationals (and the whole GP season, I think) to recuperate from an injury, and had to petition to be named to the team. They put her on the team and made Emily Hughes, the bronze medalist from nationals, the 1st alternate. However, Kwan ended up withdrawing before the start of the ladies competition, and Hughes got to compete anyway.

[Dots And Stripes]

Christine Brennan is reporting the committee selected Nathan, Vincent, and Adam. The official announcement has not been made yet.

[Moxie Cat]

53 minutes ago, annzeepark914 said:

P.S. I did really admire Hubbell & Donohue until I saw the unpleasant expressions on their faces when they didn't beat the Shibs in the SD (which reminded me of another ice dancing team's behavior in the past).  Go ShibSibs!!!

I'm sure the Shibs are frustrated that as long as V/M and P/D are around, they'll probably never get gold or silver at the Olympics - but you'd never know it. Those kids are a total class act.

Poor Ross Miner.....can't believe they would bump the silver medalist. Bronze maybe, but silver? I'm actually feeling a little resentful of Rippon after hearing this (unconfirmed) news.

2006 is interesting as a comparison....because obviously they never should have bumped Hughes.

[Rear Window]

I’m so over Adam Rippon. It will suck if he gets the Olympic spot over Ross. And how ironic that Mark Mitchell is his coach. No wonder skating’s popularity is on the toilet. 

[attica]

Boy, it pisses me off that Mike Tirico is still on my tv screen. I was hoping that this past year would get his sexual-harassing ass fired, but it looks like old accusations and settlements are outside current reckoning. 

In more cheerful news, I love Adam Rippon's answer to the doofus media inquiry 'what's it like being an out gay athlete?' He quipped "Just like being a straight athlete, but with better eyebrows."

[kayma]

I just watched the men's competition and think they should send the top 3. Adam has no chance at a medal and isn't really that competitive internationally anyway. Send the three that delivered when they needed to. 

I'm sick of the entitlement he and Ashley always display.

[Jillibean]

10 hours ago, HartofDixie said:

I wonder if Ashley not getting named to the team affected his performance. I wish they waited until Sunday night/Monday morning to announce the entire team.

I'm sure it didn't help matters for him, but what he did was a pretty clear choke. For the most part, he didn't fall going for difficult jumps. He lost his head and missed stuff that should be automatic for him with the amount of time he's trained this program. I thought he was absolutely dynamic during his short and that if he's clean he could do better at the Olympics than others, because he's a beautiful skater. But the choking should concern the federation, because history has shown us that if you lose your head like that at competitions under pressure, there's really no reason to believe you won't do it again. I understand Miner being passed over, and it's probably the decision that makes the most sense in terms of past results and potential, but that's still a really hard blow. 

Jason Brown basically made it impossible for them to sneak him onto the team, which I do think was their original plan. He's really my favorite both in terms of skating and personality, but he shouldn't be on the team, so it's just as well.

I am really not captivated by the argument that Ashley is owed something, which is essentially what both Ashley and Brennan seem to be basing their protests on, particularly given what happened in 2014. It's very nice that Ashley has gotten such a high PCS in international competitions, but I still refuse to believe that waving her arms more prettily or spinning in a better position should give her enough points to be ranked above someone who landed the planned jumps in her program, and I think it's a bit silly to pick that hill to die on. 

[Dots And Stripes]

I just saw Jason Brown is first alternate, which is insane if true.

[attica]

Written before the announcement,  this piece is a good, granular examination of why Adam is the better choice for the Olympic team:https://deadspin.com/is-adam-rippon-s-track-record-enough-to-earn-him-a-trip-1821850522

[Tippi]

If Bradie is used for the SP and LP in the team event, and hits all her jumps and levels, she could make a pretty strong case for herself in front of the international judges. I could see her possibly making the final flight if all the chips went her way.

I was very glad to see Nathan's performance.  This looked like the Nathan of last year's Nationals with his cool confidence.  Wish he could hit that danged triple axel!  That clip of 10 year old Nathan saying he'd make the 2018 Olympics is just too cute.  NBC must be over the moon how this worked out for him.  I don't care for these Vera Wang turtlenecks, but I will say they are different from all the other men's costumes.

Sorry for Jason and Adam.  Prefer Vincent's line and elegance to Ross, but Ross really gave the performance of his life.  USFSA has to really analyze this to see who can help out the most in the team event.  They can't wear out Nathan by having him skate SP and LP. 

Oh, no for darling Josh Farris!  I miss his skating so much.  Hope so much that he regains his health!