S05.E10: Mother's Mercy

[Knuckles]

So Jon is really dead, and GRRM and the show runners have been trolling us for five years. Cool. And the whole Hardhome epic, with the Night King fixing Jon with a stare-down was just a nice visual. Perfect. And all the bros conspire to kill Jon, but Edd never gives him a heads-up? Well, ok then. Since it took 5 years for the White Walkers and the army of the undead to make a major move, the 47 remaining NW at Castle Black can relax and play checkers for another 5. So that takes care of any action at the Wall. We can all move on.

 

A war between the Martells and the Lannisters? Even in their depleted state, should be a breeze for house Big Lion. There are only 6 people in Dorne...the sad snakes, Prince Doran, his valet Areo Hotah, and Ellaria, currently suffering from Borderline Personality Disorder. Trystane, or Kit Harrington.2, is on the holiday cruise with his now snuffed bride-to-be, Myrcella. My suggestion is that the small council subcontract Ramsay Enterprises to clean up Dorne...should take the better part of an afternoon.  Once again, we can all move on.

 

Dany, bless her little heart, is now back where she started, surrounded by Dothraki warriors. An admittedly terrible mother, she favors one dragon, while leaving her other two chained in a basement. Yes, they got a wise master as a shared entree, but since then, nada. Without food or water, fresh air or exercise, they may well be dead. Someone should have called Protective Services. Will she be taken prisoner, will she be threatened with sexual enslavement, will she charm her way out of danger, will she acquire a cavalry? Yes, yes, yes, and yes. We can all move on.

[AnnaMayWong]

Jon Snow is dead, long live Jon Targaryen!

It's my story and I'm sticking to it, and I'll enjoy my cruise on the Nile until next season's first leakage.

I loved the last shot last year, with Arya on the boat. Freedom and serenity, that was soothing.

This!

Based on his self-study in the NW library, I'm sure Sam will ace his AP exams. Between that and the credit he gets for lifetime experience, I imagine he'll enroll as a junior or thereabouts.

[AnnaMayWong]

Or, Sam may take International Baccalaureate courses in "maestering", thereby ensuring his spot in the Honors College.

[Hecate7]

I actually thought it seemed short, compared to the book.

 

I was disappointed in how short it was. I was really hoping for the second half of what happened with Melara, and for the rest of the prophecy.

[Sunsetlament]

Here's something maybe someone can explain for me ...

 

The High Sparrow is the dumbest guy on the planet, right?  Having not read the books, but pretty much reading all the book spoilers, all I've heard for years is that where the books end, Cersi awaits trial and Frankenstein/Mountain is going to fight for her in trial by combat.  But now that Cersi is inside the Red Keep, what possible reason could there be for her to participate (or even leave the Keep)?  The religious nuts will kill Margaery and Loras ... so what?  The only reason Cersi gave power to them in the first place was to get Margaery out of the picture.  We've been told 200x that the only people Cersi cares about are her kids; two of them are dead and the other one is catatonic in his bedroom.

 

Why wouldn't she immediately order the City Guard (or Lannister army) to absolutely annihilate the Sparrows as quickly as possible?  Why have book readers believed she'd even consider participating in a trial?  The only reason I can come up with is that Tommen won't come out of bedroom until his wife has been released ... so Cersi can't wipe out the Sparrows (out of fear they will kill Margaery immediately) - but as far as I can tell, that's pure speculation and has no basis in actual books.

 

Someone explain this to me ... wtf is the High Sparrow thinking?

[WearyTraveler]

Someone explain this to me ... wtf is the High Sparrow thinking?

 

I don't know how they'll handle it on the show, but in the books it takes a while for the sparrows to rise to power.  Basically what happens is a full blown revolution of sorts.  Think of France before their revolution.  All throughout Westeros, except the North, Dorne and the Citadel the sparrows are rising, they are everywhere. Thousands and thousands of them are on a pilgrimage to KL and the common people support them more than the Lords and Ladies.  

 

They control the masses now.

 

Cersei can have an army going in and killing all the sparrows in the High Sept of Baelor (where the High Sparrow is in the books and I think on the show, too), but that will mean flat out rebellion from almost every corner of the kingdom.  And that's not an outcome that would benefit the monarchy or the ruling classes.  There are more common people than soldiers.  They may hold the weapons, but they can't kill them all.

 

Kevan (Cersei's uncle, Twyn's brother), who is Hand of the King in the books and in the show when the Walk of Shame happens understands this and he is trying to fix all the messes that Cersei caused when she was ruling.  In the books her political messes are even worse than on the show.  She has alienated all the houses, particularly the Tyrells, and her Master of Ships, who spent a fortune building a fleet abandoned her too (that's in the books, but I don't think it'll ever come up in the show).  Kevan is basically trying to negotiate and fix the clusterfuck that is the 7 kingdoms by the time Cersei walks.

 

In the books, after the walk, she has no power.  Even if she is the Queen Mother.  The only ally she has is Qyburn.  Again, I don't know what they will do on the show with her character now. 

Edited June 16, 2015 by WearyTraveler

[Advance35]

I also really missed Jaime's book storyline because it was a great redemption story as we saw him realizing just how screwy everything really was. I don't feel like he got any character development at all in Dorne. He was changed after his stint in the Riverlands, but I don't think he's changed at all after Dorne.

 

I always feel so out of step because I never got the impression that Jaimie had changed or had any grasp of just what he and his family have done to the Kingdoms.   I don't think he's ever given a thought to Bran Stark or what became of him, he just seems to lament that even though House Lannister won the war they still aren't happy.  Boohoo.   It's why I can never really HATE characters for wanting revenge on the Lannisters even when they are willing to target some of their less guilty members.  

 

When Myrcella went on about how glad she was that Jaimie was her father all I could think of, was the blood-gushing succession war that's come because of that fact and how this dizzy girl couldn't care less about the other Houses and families that have been destroyed because of this fact (Stark, Tully, Baratheon).   It's not her fault but I could understand why people like the Martells have had it and are willing to answer in kind, when it comes to savagery.   Other Nobles are tired of eating House Lannisters crap with a knife and fork.   On the surface what happened to Mycella and Jaimie was horrible but at the same time, the lives of other children have mean't very little to him and now he see's what it's like on the other side of the equation.   Though I think had I been in charge of the storyline, I would've had a Sand Snake be the one to administer the posion to Myrcella (and said Sand Snake would have been cozying up the Myrcella all season and been seemingly pro-Trystan/Myrcella just to make the betrayal cut that much deeper).  I think the boundless hate would have played better coming from a Sand Snake who likely grew up hearing tales of how House Lannister hurt her family so terribly.   Hatred can last a long time.   One of the themes of this whole story IMO.

 

And the closest thing this show has in relation to a Sue/Stu would be Dany IMO.  Ramsay is many horrible things but I don't think I've been presented with anything that doesn't fit his characterization.  He excels at cruelty, violence, savagery (both physical and psychological), with a desire for legitamecy and social climbing.   He snuck into Stannis's camp and set fire to his food stores and than Stannis's subsequent actions weakened himself even further because he had mass desertions.   I consider Ramsay a much better evil character than Joffrey (who was WAY to pampered and on an individual level, non-effective).   I really like the pointed out paralell on the board, about Ramsay being the dark Jon Snow.

 

I cannot remember the name of the tool Sansa picked up so I'm going to call it "the tool".   As much as I've enjoyed Sansa's storyline this year I do think in terms of the BOOK it would have been in character for her to take it.   When she wen't to meet Ser Dontos in the Godswood the first time she bought a knife, she didn't think it would be effective but she was going to do her best to defend herself.   But I think the tv version is new to violence so probably still doesn't think in terms of violence.   She was only beaten once in the show while in the novels it was a consistent form of treatment she endured in Kings Landing.   This is the tv versions first exposure to consistent physical brutality.   For me it's not unforgivable that she wouldn't bring it, but it was a moment where I went "Oh, Sansa."   She's still one of the top 4 characters I'm curious to see, in terms of where she'll ultimately end up.

Edited June 16, 2015 by Advance35

[Haleth]

I don't quite understand why so many people thin Stanis might still be alive. Cutting away in the last second from a violent death is standard practice, even on this show. Not always, but often enough.

And for those people saying it wasn't Briennes duty to kill him, it very much was. If she couldn't protect her king, it was her duty to bring justice to his killer.

I think he's still alive precisely because of the cutaway.  The writers certainly would have created a juicy death scene for Stephen Dillane.  I have my own theory about where Stannis will end up... taking over command of the Night's Watch.

 

The show runners and Kit are being coy about Jon's fate.  Of course he is dead.  For now.  That doesn't mean he'll stay that way.  Jon's story isn't done by a long shot.

[BlackberryJam]

Ouchie. LH/not-LH's boobs looked vaguely self-familiar (sorry for the tmi), but I'm barely in my forties and have never had kids. If those were the breasts of a soon-to-be crone, well, society's expectations have really gotten fucked up with the prevalence of the rock-hard, stapled-on grapefruit tit.

 

HEE! That's the first time I've heard him called "Sexy Jesus." So wrong and yet so hilarious.

 

Yeah...those boobs were not the boobs of a 40 year old woman who nursed three children nor was that that stomach of a woman who bore four children and had no access to that lovely stretch mark cream. That was the body of a 28 year old woman who worked out, a lot. There was no shame to be had in that body, totally different from Cersei's fears in the books.

 

I did not coin Sexy Jesus. I think that was Gay of Thrones. 

Cersei = Blonde Cher

Tyrion = Munch Munch

Jaime = Brother D (Brother Dick)

Brienne = Some play on Tilda Swinton...Maybe Busted Tilda?

Sansa for a while = Orphan Brown

Dany = Kristina Aguilera (I think.)

 

I can't even remember them all. It's at funnyordie. It's hilarious.

[Miles]

To me, Jon survives in the books. I would have thought that that would be one thing that couldn't change, but maybe it is for whatever reason.

This is the Game of Thrones, not ASOIAF. He's not going to be sitting on the throne in the end, so maybe he isn't important in the show for the end. Vital to being Ice and Fire, but not the Iron Throne.

He probably is going to sit on the throne in the end. Technically Dany has a more legit claim on the throne, since she is true born and he is a bastard, but he is the oldest (and only) son of the crown prince, so that's not bad either.

His death does release him from his night watch vows, which leaves him free to sit the throne.

Remember Dany's vision where there was snow on the iron throne.

 

Cersei can have an army going in and killing all the sparrows in the High Sept of Baelor (where the High Sparrow is in the books and I think on the show, too), but that will mean flat out rebellion from almost every corner of the kingdom. And that's not an outcome that would benefit the monarchy or the ruling classes. There are more common people than soldiers. They may hold the weapons, but they can't kill them all.

I don't think he is there. He specifically made a point to say that he prefers that little old chapel we always see him in to the High Sept of Baelor. Probably because the High Sept of Baelor is a good part CGI (it's the place where the dead kings lie around for a while, afaik) and it would be too expensive to shoot there all the time.

 

I think he's still alive precisely because of the cutaway. The writers certainly would have created a juicy death scene for Stephen Dillane. I have my own theory about where Stannis will end up... taking over command of the Night's Watch.

If he is still alive I might quit this show. I can't stand all these character assasinations anymore and Brienne of motherfucking Tarth would have never left Stanis alive. Edited June 16, 2015 by Miles

[Avaleigh]

So Jon is really dead, and GRRM and the show runners have been trolling us for five years. Cool. And the whole Hardhome epic, with the Night King fixing Jon with a stare-down was just a nice visual. Perfect. And all the bros conspire to kill Jon, but Edd never gives him a heads-up? Well, ok then. Since it took 5 years for the White Walkers and the army of the undead to make a major move, the 47 remaining NW at Castle Black can relax and play checkers for another 5. So that takes care of any action at the Wall. We can all move on.

 

A war between the Martells and the Lannisters? Even in their depleted state, should be a breeze for house Big Lion. There are only 6 people in Dorne...the sad snakes, Prince Doran, his valet Areo Hotah, and Ellaria, currently suffering from Borderline Personality Disorder. Trystane, or Kit Harrington.2, is on the holiday cruise with his now snuffed bride-to-be, Myrcella. My suggestion is that the small council subcontract Ramsay Enterprises to clean up Dorne...should take the better part of an afternoon.  Once again, we can all move on.

 

Dany, bless her little heart, is now back where she started, surrounded by Dothraki warriors. An admittedly terrible mother, she favors one dragon, while leaving her other two chained in a basement. Yes, they got a wise master as a shared entree, but since then, nada. Without food or water, fresh air or exercise, they may well be dead. Someone should have called Protective Services. Will she be taken prisoner, will she be threatened with sexual enslavement, will she charm her way out of danger, will she acquire a cavalry? Yes, yes, yes, and yes. We can all move on.

I had to plus one this just for you calling Areo Hotah Doran's valet. 

 

I have wondered how Viserion and Rhaegal are fed. 

 

I also keep having this image of the Sons of the Harpy trying to feed Tyrion to the dragons only it ends up going horribly and unexpectedly wrong for Sons somehow. 

[WearyTraveler]

The show runners and Kit are being coy about Jon's fate. Of course he is dead. For now. That doesn't mean he'll stay that way. Jon's story isn't done by a long shot.

They remind me of Lena tweetting that picture of a heart made with stones and then tweetting that she wasn't sorry about it.

Edited June 16, 2015 by WearyTraveler

[WearyTraveler]

He probably is going to sit on the throne in the end. Technically Dany has a more legit claim on the throne, since she is true born and he is a bastard, but he is the oldest (and only) son of the crown prince, so that's not bad either.

His death does release him from his night watch vows, which leaves him free to sit the throne.

Remember Dany's vision where there was snow on the iron throne.

 

Well, we don't know if he is legitimate or not.  The Targs were allowed to have multiple wives, plus, I've been wondering recently why there would be three King's Guard (out of seven, almost half) at the Tower of Joy.  The King's Guard was established to protect the royal family, not the people they supposedly kidnapped.  And this is specially true in times of war.  In Ned's dream when he's recovering from his face-off with Jamie and his Lannister guards outside the brothel in KL, he recalls telling the three KG there that he had expected to see them at the Trident, when Rhaegar was killed, and at the palace, when Aerys was killed, to which they give him non-answers (had we been at the Trident, Robert would be dead; Jamie is not a true brother of the KG).

 

But the point remains, they were in charge of protecting Aerys and Rhaegar, the King and Crown Prince, with their lives; the unspoken question is "why are you here guarding my sister and not protecting those you swore to protect?"  This contingent of three included Dayne, The Sword of the Morning, a KG so revered and famous that he had songs made after him.  It looked highly suspicious to me.

 

My theory is that Rhaegar charged them with protecting his second wife, Lyanna, who, by marriage would be a princes of the royal family and their son, Jon.  By that time Rhaegar might have figured out that Aegon wasn't the prince that was promised, but Jon was.

Edited June 16, 2015 by WearyTraveler

[benteen]

On the whole point of Cersei being released, yeah, in the books it's a lot more clearer. Going after the Faith Militant would cause a full-scale uprising which they couldn't afford. Maegarey got released because Randyll Tarly brought his big army to the Sept of Baelor, forcing the situation. But even he had to swear a holy oath to return Maegarey for trial. He made it clear he didn't like the idea of answering to sparrows. If given the choice, the armies would prefer to smash the Faith Militant but there are too many factors in play.

I would assume (but again, the show often leaves important answers out) that Cersei has no power anymore so she can't order squat right now. Qyburn pretty much confirmed that Keven and Pycelle are running things.

Edited June 16, 2015 by benteen

[MrWhyt]

I don't think he is there. He specifically made a point to say that he prefers that little old chapel we always see him in to the High Sept of Baelor

I'll have to rewatch that episode but I believe it was explained that the little old chapel was actually the oldest part of the sept of Baelor, and was the first sept in King's Landing. The larger structure was built around it.

[dr pepper]

Which leads to the question: who is going to shoot Kevan?

[mac123x]

Which leads to the question: who is going to shoot Kevan?

 

Ollie, because why the hell not.

Gregostein accidentally steps on him.

Bland Snake number 3 teleports to KL flashes him and stabs him

 

The number of options are endless and nonsensical.

[Macbeth]

Someone explain this to me ... wtf is the High Sparrow thinking?

 

 

Kevan is in charge now and in control of the King's Guard.  He wasn't second in command to Tywin for nothing.  Tywin didn't suffer fools. And in now way is he going to assist Cersei - he let her stew in the clink.  He is too busy cleaning up her mess.

 

In re to who is shooting Kevan.  Cersei ends up killing him when she burns down the Red Keep.

 

[Avaleigh]

Which leads to the question: who is going to shoot Kevan?

I think it's still going to be Varys since they're clearly giving Kevan and Pycelle a bit of a reprieve. I don't see them dying until midway next season although I'd like it if next season started out with a bang in the first three episodes or so with those two going along with the Tyrells, Ramsay, and maybe Daario. 

 

I also like the speculation that Kevan and Pycelle will be taken out by Gregorstein. 

[Miles]

Well, we don't know if he is legitimate or not.  The Targs were allowed to have multiple wives, plus, I've been wondering recently why there would be three King's Guard (out of seven, almost half) at the Tower of Joy.  The King's Guard was established to protect the royal family, not the people they supposedly kidnapped.  And this is specially true in times of war.  In Ned's dream when he's recovering from his face-off with Jamie and his Lannister guards outside the brothel in KL, he recalls telling the three KG there that he had expected to see them at the Trident, when Rhaegar was killed, and at the palace, when Aerys was killed, to which they give him non-answers (had we been at the Trident, Robert would be dead; Jamie is not a true brother of the KG).

 

But the point remains, they were in charge of protecting Aerys and Rhaegar, the King and Crown Prince, with their lives; the unspoken question is "why are you here guarding my sister and not protecting those you swore to protect?"  This contingent of three included Dayne, The Sword of the Morning, a KG so revered and famous that he had songs made after him.  It looked highly suspicious to me.

 

My theory is that Rhaegar charged them with protecting his second wife, Lyanna, who, by marriage would be a princes of the royal family and their son, Jon.  By that time Rhaegar might have figured out that Aegon wasn't the prince that was promised, but Jon was.

Well the kings guard still has to follow the king's and prince's commands, regardless of their oath. See Barriston the Bold being fired. Rhaegar was a good guy so he might just have sent them to protect the woman he loved and his son.

That being said, if multiple wifes were still a thing at that time, your theory is very good.

[lucindabelle]

Ouchie. LH/not-LH's boobs looked vaguely self-familiar (sorry for the tmi), but I'm barely in my forties and have never had kids. If those were the breasts of a soon-to-be crone, well, society's expectations have really gotten fucked up with the prevalence of the rock-hard, stapled-on grapefruit tit.

 

HEE! That's the first time I've heard him called "Sexy Jesus." So wrong and yet so hilarious.

I watched the same way! I h the mid century mark th year and those boobs look about like mine (hers a bit bigger) so reading everyone here saying they are great perked me up (pun intended) no end.

To me though they really did look at least like a 40-something. Foul talking cutie sand snake had the books of a young woman. Cersei's were pretty but floppy and low.

Her belly though definitely looked like she worked out.

I've read the books but promptly forgot most of what was in them except for the walk so glad we did get to tht,

Did I mishear? I thought it was the sell swords who deserted meaning it really didn't ahve anything to do with the burning of shireen. Or were they the only ones who stayed?

[Unknown poster]

It was the sellswords (the bulk of Stannis' army) that deserted, taking the horses with them. I've seen it written on a few sights that they defected to the Bolton's, but that was never stated in the show. However, it seems likely, given that a few thousand men with few supplies and stuck in the deep north at the onset of winter, would probably attempt to join the nearest power, instead of setting off on their own.

[elzin]

He probably is going to sit on the throne in the end. Technically Dany has a more legit claim on the throne, since she is true born and he is a bastard, but he is the oldest (and only) son of the crown prince, so that's not bad either.

His death does release him from his night watch vows, which leaves him free to sit the throne.

Remember Dany's vision where there was snow on the iron throne.

Maybe it was Ramsay. They LOOOOOOOVE Ramsay. ;)

 

I guess I should have said he won't be the One True King of Westeros. I think even if he ends up on the throne IN THE BOOKS, he won't remain there by choice. Just my gut feeling.

[benteen]

I'm thinking Cersei is going to unleash FrankenGregor on Kevan and Pycelle.  I wouldn't rule out Varys but I have a feeling they are setting him up to be more "benevolent" in this war for Westeros.  Maybe my mistake of course.  D&D often do something different with the story only for it to play out in the end like it did in the books.

 

In any case, we know Julian Glover is returning for sure.  Pycelle weasels his way to live another day on this show.

[lucindabelle]

The sell swords might have deserted anyway, no?

Stan is was Macbeth when he saw his dead wife and Jon of course was Caesar.

Without the poetry.

[Pete Martell]

And the closest thing this show has in relation to a Sue/Stu would be Dany IMO.  Ramsay is many horrible things but I don't think I've been presented with anything that doesn't fit his characterization.  He excels at cruelty, violence, savagery (both physical and psychological), with a desire for legitamecy and social climbing.   He snuck into Stannis's camp and set fire to his food stores and than Stannis's subsequent actions weakened himself even further because he had mass desertions.   I consider Ramsay a much better evil character than Joffrey (who was WAY to pampered and on an individual level, non-effective).   I really like the pointed out paralell on the board, about Ramsay being the dark Jon Snow.

 

It's not just any effectiveness or evil ways, it's how they are presented. The ludicrous scenes with "Yara" and the pointless sexytime scenes with Myranda are the reason why I consider him to be a Ramsay Stu. And they are one of the reasons I can't take him seriously as a villain. I never get any sense in the text that we're supposed to be all that frightened by him or want him to be punished. Even after he beat and raped Sansa, I rarely got that feeling. Instead we got more superspy badass moments, and a scenario where we were invited to root for him to kill Stannis. At least I could say they wanted us to hate Joffrey.

[Edgehopper]

Here's something maybe someone can explain for me ...

 

The High Sparrow is the dumbest guy on the planet, right?  Having not read the books, but pretty much reading all the book spoilers, all I've heard for years is that where the books end, Cersi awaits trial and Frankenstein/Mountain is going to fight for her in trial by combat.  But now that Cersi is inside the Red Keep, what possible reason could there be for her to participate (or even leave the Keep)?  The religious nuts will kill Margaery and Loras ... so what?  The only reason Cersi gave power to them in the first place was to get Margaery out of the picture.  We've been told 200x that the only people Cersi cares about are her kids; two of them are dead and the other one is catatonic in his bedroom.

 

Why wouldn't she immediately order the City Guard (or Lannister army) to absolutely annihilate the Sparrows as quickly as possible?  Why have book readers believed she'd even consider participating in a trial?  The only reason I can come up with is that Tommen won't come out of bedroom until his wife has been released ... so Cersi can't wipe out the Sparrows (out of fear they will kill Margaery immediately) - but as far as I can tell, that's pure speculation and has no basis in actual books.

 

Someone explain this to me ... wtf is the High Sparrow thinking?

In the books, Cersei's arrest cues a more widespread palace coup, with Kevan Lannister taking over as Hand and all of Cersei's minions except Qyburn fleeing. The city guard and Lannister army won't do anything because Kevan is in charge. Tommen is even younger and more of a useless pawn in the books; after the walk, Cersei and Tommen are spending most of their time cowering together while Kevan, Randyll Tarly, and Mace Tyrell take over the actual governing.

Now, an event from the epilogue of Book 5 that hasn't happened on the show may change the power dynamics, but up to that point, the High Sparrow has a lot more friends in King's Landing than Cersei.

[Hanahope]

Lena's head was CGI'd onto her body double's nude body.

 

It had to be since Lena is a natural brunette, not a blonde.

 

Theon and Sansa, looked like they jumped on high sloping pile of snow.  I don't see why they would die but they may get hurt a little.

 

Myrcella did not die but looked to be dying, does not look good, high chance she is dead.

 

 

Both of those scenes has prior scenes that could make one think that all were dead.  We just saw Myranda fall from a similar height, so why would she die and not Theon/Sansa.  Yes, there appeared to be more snow, but that can only help so much.

 

As for Myrcella, we had the scene describing exactly how the poison worked between Tyene and Bronn, and we're shown Ellaria drinking the antidote.  So we know Myrcella is dead/dying.

 

 

that Brienne would indeed choose to honor her oath to Catelyn instead of her vengeance oath

 

But we did sortof get that scene because Brienne chose to abandon her post to watch for Sansa's candle and instead went Stannis hunting.

 

My question is what would she do if she did see the candle?  Was she in contact with other northerners to protect/help Sansa?  I have to presume the old lady meant more than just Brienne would be coming to her rescue.  Plus, we never saw a single scene where Brienne actually learned about the candle in the tower message.  How did she get other notherners on her side?

[BlackberryJam]

Just an FYI on the body double, I believe she was wearing a pubic wig, and Lena Headey was making fun of it. Not the body double, but the pubic wig. So the blonde pubes were do-able for Lena. I'm not sure why she choose not to do the walk.

 

Is there a specific term for a pubic wig? I do not want to google that.

[Matt K]

Just an FYI on the body double, I believe she was wearing a pubic wig, and Lena Headey was making fun of it. Not the body double, but the pubic wig. So the blonde pubes were do-able for Lena. I'm not sure why she choose not to do the walk.

 

Is there a specific term for a pubic wig? I do not want to google that.

I believe it's called a Merkin.  No idea where I know that term from, maybe early season Family Guy (when it was good).

[proserpina65]

In a story full of magic, dragons, wargs and zombies, the less realistic thing to me was the Walk of Shame. Westeros is too Middle Age. I just can't believe a Queen Mother would be humilliated like this. And while the Lannisters are in a weak position, they're still the ruling House. Tommen could make the Sparrows ilegal in a second. Besides, I said it before: I don't want Cersei to pay for her sex life. I want her to pay for her crimes.

 

Actually there is quite a lot of historical precedent for the Walk of Shame (although not necessarily for queens - the only one of note is in fiction).  Here is the link to a Business Insider article on this very subject: http://www.businessinsider.com/game-of-thrones-cersei-walk-of-shame-historical-context-2015-6

 

As for Cersei paying for her crimes and not her sex life: a) for the wife of a king, adultery is a crime, and b) the charges related to sex are the only one's to which she's confessed.  So that's what she's being punished for. If she's convicted of having a hand in Robert's death, the High Sparrow will do a lot more than make her walk naked through the streets of Kings Landing; the punishment for that would be execution.

[MadMouse]

Here's something maybe someone can explain for me ...

 

The High Sparrow is the dumbest guy on the planet, right?  Having not read the books, but pretty much reading all the book spoilers, all I've heard for years is that where the books end, Cersi awaits trial and Frankenstein/Mountain is going to fight for her in trial by combat.  But now that Cersi is inside the Red Keep, what possible reason could there be for her to participate (or even leave the Keep)?  The religious nuts will kill Margaery and Loras ... so what?  The only reason Cersi gave power to them in the first place was to get Margaery out of the picture.  We've been told 200x that the only people Cersi cares about are her kids; two of them are dead and the other one is catatonic in his bedroom.

 

Why wouldn't she immediately order the City Guard (or Lannister army) to absolutely annihilate the Sparrows as quickly as possible?  Why have book readers believed she'd even consider participating in a trial?  The only reason I can come up with is that Tommen won't come out of bedroom until his wife has been released ... so Cersi can't wipe out the Sparrows (out of fear they will kill Margaery immediately) - but as far as I can tell, that's pure speculation and has no basis in actual books.

 

Someone explain this to me ... wtf is the High Sparrow thinking?

 

In the books the realm is even a worse state. The Riverlands are a wasteland and that's where a majority of the Sparrows are coming from. The common people and faith are starting to blame not just the Frey's but the Lannisters for the RW. The show has undercut how massive of a crime that was. The Lannister armies are depleted except for the one being led by Jaime. Tommen's reign is being propped up by the Tyrells, their armies and food. But now they're being threatened by the Ironborn. Rhaegar's "son" has landed in the Stormlands and begun his campaign.  Again the show has undercut the love Rhaegar had of not just common people but highborn too. Rumors of Dany and her dragons have reached Westeros. The fear she may join forces with the pretender. And that's just the problems Crown knows about. They have no idea that the North is about to install a Stark back in control of the North and Littlefingers plans to press Sansa's claims over Riverlands, North using the Vale. Cersei is in a worse position than the Mad King was.

[Raachel2008]

Eh, like everybody else I DO think Jon is a Targaryen, but I don't put it past GRRM to just fuck up with fans and make him the son of Ned and some unknown woman.

[LiveenLetLive]

Eh, like everybody else I DO think Jon is a Targaryen, but I don't put it past GRRM to just fuck up with fans and make him the son of Ned and some unknown woman.

That would be so screwed--and it would completely negate everything that GRRM had us believing about Ned as a man. Personally, if he throws some sort of hissy fit and "betrays" Ned in that way I am completely out. I feel the same about Jon Snow, GRRM has promised a certain story arc with this character, to do a 180 on it would be the tantrum of a 12 year old boy writing his first "epic" (just ugh.)

[benteen]

In the books the realm is even a worse state. The Riverlands are a wasteland and that's where a majority of the Sparrows are coming from. The common people and faith are starting to blame not just the Frey's but the Lannisters for the RW. The show has undercut how massive of a crime that was. The Lannister armies are depleted except for the one being led by Jaime. Tommen's reign is being propped up by the Tyrells, their armies and food. But now they're being threatened by the Ironborn. Rhaegar's "son" has landed in the Stormlands and begun his campaign.  Again the show has undercut the love Rhaegar had of not just common people but highborn too. Rumors of Dany and her dragons have reached Westeros. The fear she may join forces with the pretender. And that's just the problems Crown knows about. They have no idea that the North is about to install a Stark back in control of the North and Littlefingers plans to press Sansa's claims over Riverlands, North using the Vale. Cersei is in a worse position than the Mad King was.

 

Seeing as D&D believe that argument that Tywin gave, that "saving thousands by killing a dozen at a dinner table" I don't think the appreciate just how badly the Red Wedding backfired for the Lannisters in the long run.  The Riverlands seem to exist and not exist on this show.  The extent of the damage done to the Realm often seems to be downgraded on the show.

[Attaboy000]

Why are people in here having a meltdown about Jon Snow actually being dead? 

Edited June 16, 2015 by Attaboy000

[Avaleigh]

Seeing as D&D believe that argument that Tywin gave, that "saving thousands by killing a dozen at a dinner table" I don't think the appreciate just how badly the Red Wedding backfired for the Lannisters in the long run.  The Riverlands seem to exist and not exist on this show.  The extent of the damage done to the Realm often seems to be downgraded on the show.

I feel like there's another way to look at that line and the interpretation from Tywin that D&D were responding to. From Tywin's perspective I think that saving thousands of lives translates to losing a lot fewer of his own men. He's thinking about his own strength in that statement IMO. I don't think it's about Tywin thinking about the preciousness of life in itself. 

[MadMouse]

Seeing as D&D believe that argument that Tywin gave, that "saving thousands by killing a dozen at a dinner table" I don't think the appreciate just how badly the Red Wedding backfired for the Lannisters in the long run.  The Riverlands seem to exist and not exist on this show.  The extent of the damage done to the Realm often seems to be downgraded on the show.

 

Exactly and you can say the same when it comes to the Martells and what happened to Elia and her children. In less than twenty years he made enemies of four great house by his actions and reputation. That's not even counting some of the lesser houses like Rowan, Blackwood, etc. All you have to do is look at what happens after he dies. All his moves are crippling the Lannisters.

[Fen]

In the books the realm is even a worse state. The Riverlands are a wasteland and that's where a majority of the Sparrows are coming from. The common people and faith are starting to blame not just the Frey's but the Lannisters for the RW. The show has undercut how massive of a crime that was. The Lannister armies are depleted except for the one being led by Jaime. Tommen's reign is being propped up by the Tyrells, their armies and food. But now they're being threatened by the Ironborn. Rhaegar's "son" has landed in the Stormlands and begun his campaign.  Again the show has undercut the love Rhaegar had of not just common people but highborn too. Rumors of Dany and her dragons have reached Westeros. The fear she may join forces with the pretender. And that's just the problems Crown knows about. They have no idea that the North is about to install a Stark back in control of the North and Littlefingers plans to press Sansa's claims over Riverlands, North using the Vale. Cersei is in a worse position than the Mad King was.

 

I know that the argument the showrunners make is that some stuff simply has to be cut in terms of time - but losing the wider picture of what's happening has a real impact on the overall quality of the show, imo.  They managed this much better in the earlier seasons, but this season the realm has felt 'emptier'.

[Pete Martell]

I know that the argument the showrunners make is that some stuff simply has to be cut in terms of time - but losing the wider picture of what's happening has a real impact on the overall quality of the show, imo.  They managed this much better in the earlier seasons, but this season the realm has felt 'emptier'.

 

I think they believe viewers are idiots - this has ranged from changing names so no one would get confused, to all the cheaply done soft porn padding so many episodes, to attempting to shame viewers for being upset about character deaths unless we were also devastated over the deaths of bit players or people we never saw oncamera - and they likely assumed we didn't want to know or need to know about any devastation in Westeros or any consequences. And that has caused what amounts to a huge sucking sound in terms of any impact or consequences of bad decisions. I tend to wonder how many viewers think the North is fine and dandy and that Roose is, other than killing Robb and Catelyn (who now barely exist to anyone who matters in the show - even Sansa and Theon, who adored him - unless you count "the North remembers" from the Septa Mordane knockoff), a pretty cool guy.

Edited June 16, 2015 by Pete Martell

[SeanC]

Eh, like everybody else I DO think Jon is a Targaryen, but I don't put it past GRRM to just fuck up with fans and make him the son of Ned and some unknown woman.

I do, because GRRM is not a bad writer, and he doesn't do things just to "fuck up with fans".

[MarySNJ]

Yeah...those boobs were not the boobs of a 40 year old woman who nursed three children nor was that that stomach of a woman who bore four children and had no access to that lovely stretch mark cream. That was the body of a 28 year old woman who worked out, a lot. There was no shame to be had in that body, totally different from Cersei's fears in the books.

 

I did not coin Sexy Jesus. I think that was Gay of Thrones. 

Cersei = Blonde Cher

Tyrion = Munch Munch

Jaime = Brother D (Brother Dick)

Brienne = Some play on Tilda Swinton...Maybe Busted Tilda?

Sansa for a while = Orphan Brown

Dany = Kristina Aguilera (I think.)

 

I can't even remember them all. It's at funnyordie. It's hilarious.

Arya = Baby Kristen Stewart. Love that one. 

Edited June 16, 2015 by MarySNJ

[Pogojoco]

 

The show has always been a series of turns, but at least for the first few seasons it still remembered to have a heart.

There is a moment, after the Pink Letter arrives, that Jon thinks about each of his siblings and it's a really lovely moment. He tried for a long time to block it out, but the letter just breaks something in him. It's that march south that gets him stabbed. 

 

The show is doing all these set pieces and hitting targets, but isn't building enough of the feeling or the scope that the books have. 

[Amtosbm]

I pretty much liked the episode though agree with most of you that it felt really rushed in some parts while others felt like they could have waited (cough Myrcella poison - really not till next year?).   I decided years ago that if I was only going to bitch about the show not following the books, which I did plenty, I would stop watching it. I did for awhile and then came back. The cooling off helped me seperate the two so I really enjoy the show more than I did before. I treat them as two different beasts.There is plenty to still criticize but overall I think this season was really no worse than any other and I don't think the show is beyond terrible, I think its still pretty engrossing and entertaining.  I don't mind the dangling plot lines. As long as they get resolved by the end.

But this was so true:

 

Good lord, Dorne was a complete mess and they really wasted Alexander Siddig  Is there anything more you can do with Dorne after this?

I really wish they had just cut the Snakes and kept Arianne. I think she could have served all the SS parts and Ellaria's and hopefully with a more charasmatic actor.  The Snakes were god awful and worse boring. Ellaria was ruined and Myrcella is dead anyway so what was the point?  Hated the whole arc and hope they are done.

 

 

I want her to go full Arya-on-Meryn-Trant on him for having the genius idea of marrying her to Ramsey Fucking Bolton.

This would be my favourite scene ever if it happened.

 

I loved seeing Sansa and Theon jump together, especially the look she gave him before taking his hand. I was hoping for more from Sansa but now that hope is transferred to next season when I think she will really have a backbone even if it means choosing to no longer play the game. We saw she was ready to die before being returned to Ramsay. I just wish we had been given a scene of seeing that smug look wiped off his face when he realized his two favourite playthings were gone. No doubt he thinks he will hunt them down quickly but I really doubt it. Its too bad I think they are bound for Castle Black and who the hell knows what is going to be going on there.

 

 

You could tell not only from Ramsay's massive numbers advantage but also the precise formations  of his troops compared to Stannis' disorganized clump of men that it was going to be a slaughter.

I actually felt bad for Stannis's remaining men. They had to know they were going to their death. He seemed to. I never liked Stannis but he really was his own worst enemy. I think his inflexbility would have made him a terrible ruler.

 

 

The Boltons will remain unchallenged at Winterfell until the White Walkers decide to invade the south.

Ramsay and Jon are so the anthesis of each other I just have a strong feeling that Jon is going to be the one to take him down. I have been wrong before but I've read so many articles talking about how alike their circumstances are but how different men they became.  Either way D & D seem to love over the top villians so I think Ramsay will be around for most of next season. 

 

I do feel like with the all deaths this finale makes it hard to have hope. I love Dany and Tyrion but realize not everyone does and some people will tune out. That said the show did break its ratings record.  Its only ten episodes and has a lot to cover but I really wish they would make better choices about what scenes to cut and add. I don't need SS slappies or Mervyn Trant beating multiple kids.

 

No way do I believe that Jon is not coming back. Total BS.  Mel showing up sealed it for me. There is no other reason for her to be there. I just hate that that child burning bitch is going to be labelled a hero out of this by some.

Edited June 17, 2015 by Amtosbm

[snowblossom2]

At the very least, Sam should be required to give a few lectures

 

"Wilding" Identity as Social Construct: A Critical Re-examination of the Realms of Men

 

and

 

Legalism and Custom in Interpreting Oaths: Sex, Wives & Children

 

I love you for this! Fellow sociologist ? :)

[TexasChic]

Why are people in here having a meltdown about Jon Snow actually being dead? 

Because his real parentage is the biggest mystery of the series, with speculation putting him up there with Dany as to the rightful heir of the throne (my vote goes to the Mad King being his father BTW). Also, there are tons of hints that he is crucial to the overall story (he and Dany have had the most hints of this nature, and fit the prophecies the best). That doesn't mean it might not all be a big fake out, but it seems to be building up to something big with either him, Dany, or to a lesser extent, possibly Bran (IMO). And since we've all been feeling really superior about figuring this all out, we simply can't believe Jon would just up and die!

[SeanC]

Ramsay and Jon are so the anthesis of each other I just have a strong feeling that Jon is going to be the one to take him down. I have been wrong before but I've read so many articles talking about how alike their circumstances are but how different men they became.  Either way D & D seem to love over the top villians so I think Ramsay will be around for most of next season. 

I expect next season will be Littlefinger vs. Boltons, with Sansa being involved somehow.

[benteen]

Exactly and you can say the same when it comes to the Martells and what happened to Elia and her children. In less than twenty years he made enemies of four great house by his actions and reputation. That's not even counting some of the lesser houses like Rowan, Blackwood, etc. All you have to do is look at what happens after he dies. All his moves are crippling the Lannisters.

 

Exactly. Tywin has managed to win in the short term and longer but long term has planted the seeds for his House's destruction.  Tyrion could have been a tremendous asset to House Lannister but his continually treating him like shit by Tywin led to Tywin's death.  With him gone, his House is absolutely crumbling.  But the ill will Tywin has generated by his actions (House Martell aside) is downplayed on the show by D&D.

I expect next season will be Littlefinger vs. Boltons, with Sansa being involved somehow.

 

You might be right.  First TV Stannis vs the Boltons and now Littlefinger vs the Boltons.  Talk about three groups I don't like and I have to imagine much of the audience feels that way too.  This is what happens when you kill off key characters and popular ones at that.

 

I don't mind the idea of Sansa "playing nice" with Littlefinger as long as she's actually playing him.

Edited June 17, 2015 by benteen

[SeanC]

I don't mind the idea of Sansa "playing nice" with Littlefinger as long as she's actually playing him.

I know I've seen a lot of people desperately hoping that this arc is meant to be terminating Sansa's trust/alliance with Baelish, but nobody actually involved with the show has so much as hinted at that, nor is there anything in the show itself suggesting she thinks that.  Between that and Bryan Cogman going out of his way to exonerate Baelish from any knowledge of Ramsay, I suspect the writers are planning to have Sansa and LF more or less pick up where they are in the books, as they so often do.

[Pogojoco]

Because his real parentage is the biggest mystery of the series, with speculation putting him up there with Dany as to the rightful heir of the throne (my vote goes to the Mad King being his father BTW). Also, there are tons of hints that he is crucial to the overall story (he and Dany have had the most hints of this nature, and fit the prophecies the best). That doesn't mean it might not all be a big fake out, but it seems to be building up to something big with either him, Dany, or to a lesser extent, possibly Bran (IMO). And since we've all been feeling really superior about figuring this all out, we simply can't believe Jon would just up and die!

How is the Mad King Jon's father?