Kelly File: Duggar Interview Part 2 2015.06.05

[Janet Snakehole]

So I tuned in to the last few minutes. I suck.

But point being, the pundits were going over how the victims were confirmed in the article. No they weren't. Every site and media I read had policy about not naming the victims/survivors. If anyone was named, posters were admonished. Which I think is the right thing to do.

Megyn and the advisor she had had the end (did not catch his name) lamented how the names were obvious. Ok, maybe people could have figured them out, but two of the girls were interviewed on Fox. If they were so opposed to the names being revealed, they could have refused this interview. They just confirmed who the victims were, while being so upset that the vague story got out.

Edited June 6, 2015 by Janet Snakehole

[NikSac]

On one hand I have sympathy for what they went/are going through. But...I don't know, they seemed more soulless at the same time. The story was obviously not the truth, their truth, remotely accurate, or honest. To go on national TV and willingly put out stuff like this, was just so self-serving, calculating, and cold. I guess all cults start looking alike, if you get deep enough.

 

This is what I had a huge problem with too. I have a lot of sympathy for them, I really do.  But they're willing to go on TV and lie, potentially minimize the experiences of other abused children, and lash out at the media instead of lashing out about what happened to them. I agree with everyone who said it's their right to express this and deal with this however they need to, but I find myself drawing a line at outright lying. If this was supposed to get me interested in a spinoff, it sure did the opposite.

[wanderwoman]

One thing that I think the Duggars keep missing... this isn't the same thing as a premature birth or a stillbirth or the death of Grandpa. Those WERE all very, very tough things, that's true. And, I truly and sincerely believe that the girls have every right to be furious that it happened and that it was exposed without their consent. I would be missed, too. But, it's not slander and it's not a lie. The girls wrote a book "all about relationships"....and you don't mention ANYTHING about the biggest relationship struggle in your life? It's precisely because your parents put all your crap on television that there was even an audience for this. Your parents bear 100% of the responsibility for your life being on front street. Had the parents said, "no...we're not doing a show because our family privacy is important" or "there's no money worth this", then this wouldn't be a story. Do you think Josie is going to feel good about ALL of her pain being put on tv? Like Jill and Jessa, Josie is due protection from having her accidents broadcast to millions. If the parents had turned Josh in at 14, then that would've been it and the case would've truly been completely unavailable to the media. But, dad couldn't have a slot on that political campaign.

Jill and Jessa, the reason people think they know you is because, as adults in your own right, you're continuing to sell your privacy away. We think we know you because you had a platform to really support victims of abuse, bullying, or molestation,...and you chose to talk about, and get preachy about, sexual purity without acknowledging that some things are beyond your control and WERE beyond your control.

[MyPeopleAreNordic]

I wish Megyn Kelly hadn't asked the girls if there were any more family secrets.

That question should have been for Jim Bob & Michelle to have to answer.

I hope I am wrong, but I have a feeling another shoe is going to drop. If it does happen, I'd much rather see a repeat in the new cycle of a scene of Jim Bob & Michelle denying there were any more secrets rather than the girls, especially with Jill's strange almost-laughing-with-her-mouth-open-super -wide response.

Edited June 6, 2015 by MyPeopleAreNordic

[Wellfleet]

Well this is a tricky one. I wrote a long post, but erased it because I prefer to err on the side of caution and I don't know if I was being innapropiate.

 

I will just say that I am not fully buying what all four of them are selling, and leave it at that.

 

I find myself in the exact same position. Don't know what to say other than it sounded totally coached, which of course is not surprising. Jessa spoke of things that up until this incident, I'm sure she had no idea existed. If there wasn't a well-paying television show in the mix here, neither one of these girls would have appeared on TV to do what they did tonight. Just the idea of it would have mortified their parents.

Edited June 6, 2015 by Wellfleet

[cheatincheetos]

MK asks if they were ever angry at their abuser. 

Jessa replies: [word-for-word transcript]

Like, the girls didn't catch on, y'know?

It was like, OK, if he catches a girl sleeping, y'know, like, a quick feel or whatever.

And, or, like, y'know, if you're just not really aware, y'know? 

 

So, like,  yeahh.

[Sew Sumi]

I lost my money post. But DAMN, I threw the Duggar Math out of the window. Yay. :)

[MyPeopleAreNordic]

After watching these interviews, if I was Marjorie's parents, I would encourage her to break off her courtship/pre-engagement with Josiah. I know none of this is his fault and he shouldn't be punished, but there's no way in hell I'd want my daughter emeshing herself with a family that so clearly devalues women and chooses a son over several daughters. Marjorie- Look at how your potential in-laws treat their own daughters. Are you sure you want to be part of that or you want your daughters to be a part of that?

Edited June 6, 2015 by MyPeopleAreNordic

[bluebonnet]

I have to say that Jessa's issue with legal pornography really did not sit well when coupled with the family statement that Josh touched them while they were sleeping because he was just curious about girls.  He probably could have dealt with his girl curiosity in a healthier way if he had looked at consenting adults.  I mean, normal boys his age are often sneaking looks at Playboy and such.  

[kitkat68]

Why did they have to repeat that Josh paid for his own counseling?

[Muffyn]

It kind of seemed like Jessa was bragging about Josh’s stealth ability to molest.  Isn’t it great that he could get in a quick brush across a breast without the girls even being sure it happened?  Yuck.  It hadn’t occurred to me until now that Jessa was also pre-pubescent when this occurred.  So he went after a 5 year old and a 9 year; the creepiness is so overwhelming. 

 

I feel terrible for Josh’s victims.  It is horrific that Jill and Jessa were asked to participate in this interview.  If their parents cared about them at all, they would quietly go away and let the women go on with their lives without having to talk about their molestation. 

 

As to rates of sexual abuse among siblings, I’ll refer you to Pandora’s Project website:  http://www.pandys.org/articles/siblingsexualabuse.html
“It is estimated that approximately 15% of all people report some kind of sexual activity with a sibling in childhood. More specifically, studies have shown that between 2% (Leder, 1991) and 4% (Finkelhor, 1999) of people have been sexually victimized by a sibling as the sexual contact involved some degree of forced or coercive activity.”

 

I assume Jessa didn’t comfort Jill because they are now afraid that if the girls hug it will lead to lesbianism.   I’ll let myself out.

[MyPeopleAreNordic]

So I tuned in to the last few minutes. I suck.

But point being, the pundits were going over how the victims were confirmed in the article. No they weren't. Every site and media I read had policy about not naming the victims/survivors. If anyone was named, posters were admonished. Which I think is the right thing to do.

Megyn and the advisor she had had the end (did not catch his name) lamented how the names were obvious. Ok, maybe people could have figured them out, but two of the girls were interviewed on Fox. If they were so opposed to the names being revealed, they could have refused this interview. They just confirmed who the victims were, while being so upset that the vague story got out.

I used to spend a LOT of time on a true crime forum. I often read court documents and discovery documents where children were the victims of adults who they are related to. Although the names of the children and the addresses were redacted, one could almost always identify the victim if they wanted to thanks to searching the Internet and spying around on Facebook. (The forum did not allow members to post their names.) When newspapers write articles about such cases, they'll often say a "young relative age seven who lived in the home" or a "six-year old child of perp's girlfriend," etc. The very nature of these crimes happening in families - so both the victim and the perp are related and probably live together - means that, unfortunately, victims can be easily identified thanks to the Internet or in some cases, even small town gossip, church gossip, etc. It is awful and unfortunate. It has to further hurt the victims. However, that is unfortunately the way it is in 2015. In no way is it some sort of special persecution against the Duggars or unusual. It was magnified by the fact that the girls are celebrities so it was big news compared to a blurb in the local paper or a court case some true crime junkies are discussing on an Internet forum. It's not right, but the way it is, people can do a little leg work and ID children who are victims in cases where the perp was a family member. It's not something specific only to the Duggars. Sometimes I think they might be implying it is with all the "these girls' privacy was breached" talk because really, all victims can easily have their privacy breached in similar situations. They just aren't on TV. /end rant

[tabloidlover]

DISCLAIMER: I have not read any posts yet.  I just went to watch and my TIVO revolted and refused to tape FOX....  The first time must have been too much for it.  Will now look for video clips and catch up via your posts.  Carry on...

[bluebonnet]

Why did they have to repeat that Josh paid for his own counseling?

I'm really surprised Kelly didn't address this point.  I also do not understand why Michelle and Jim Bob acted as though it were a good thing that they required Josh to pay for his own health care.  It mostly left me wondering if they force their other kids to pay for health care.  Like, will Josie need to reimburse them for her lengthy hospitalization or for that ambulance ride she took when she had a seizure?  

 

I just don't get the school of thought on having a child pay for their own treatment.  anyone have an explanation for this?

[WedgeOfSpite]

I'm absolutely livid that those women  were made to be mouthpieces to denying their own abuse. And I am especially livid that in doing so, that other abuse victims of the same kinds of crime, had their experience/pain diminished as well. I don't blame them for being brainwashed drones and doing so, but what they were saying is not a message abuse victims should a.) be forced to say b.) hear. Especially from a fellow victim. So their parents suck even more for making them do this, and be a party of that. 

 

I am also totally skeptical of their forgiveness, in that I don't think they had a choice in that either. After all, what is there to forgive if nothing bad really happened to them? So clearly their feelings were given zero validation, which they display to this day. 

 

And while it clearly sucks to have one's abuse made public, that's also on their scummy parents deciding to take them all on national TV and packaging themselves as moral arbiters. All while knowing what their son had done to five girls. But maybe there is some good that can come out of it being public, because maybe they're finally hearing from a lot of people, that what they went through really was wrong. That they have a right to be upset,  if they want to, however they want to. That it's all Josh's fault, they are not in any way shape or form to blame. And that their parents weren't looking out for them, the way they did their son. Sure their brainwashed minds aren't going to let a lot in, but maybe some of that gets through to them, and gives them some deserved validation. 

[Janet Snakehole]

I think the Duggars viewed Josh paying for his own therapy as some kind of adequate punishment for what he had done.

[bluebonnet]

But wouldn't that mean that they purposely made him associate the treatment as part of the punishment, rather than as treatment? 

 

Maybe I shouldn't really expect any sort of logical answer to this.  Though I do wonder how common that sort of thing is.  

[Literata]

Get them off my TV, forever. I don't even know where to begin.

Laughing when Megyn asked them if they ever fought with Josh about the abuse ... bragging about Josh's stealth molestation techniques ... blaming an "agenda" for their issues ...praising their parents' handling of the situation...

I can't imagine a more horrifying hour. There's no rehabilitating any of them. They need to go.

[JoanArc]

I wished we'd seen them interviewed one-on-one. Jim Bob, Michelle, Jill, and Jessa. We'd have gotten closer to the truth without your accountability buddy sitting in and talking over.

[Julia]

I just assumed they're claiming Josh paid for his own counseling because there are no records showing that they provided any.

[ZoloftBlob]

Why did they have to repeat that Josh paid for his own counseling

 

Because it makes it sound like Josh was punished in some way. "Josh had to PAY for his counseling" is their little "eff you internetz" to the idea that Josh basically got off scot free.

 

Personally I think I need to see receipts before I believe this narrative anyway in that I don't believe a family that shopped at thrift stores and Aldi's when their reality show started could afford any counseling for one child, let alone at least *five*.

[Janet Snakehole]

But wouldn't that mean that they purposely made him associate the treatment as part of the punishment, rather than as treatment?

Maybe I shouldn't really expect any sort of logical answer to this. Though I do wonder how common that sort of thing is.

Nope, I am with you. That was just my attempt at weird Duggar logic, where spending 75 dollars a session makes up for messing with your sisters' lives. This logic also applies to a world where Josh gets to work for the FRC and the J-slaves (some of whom were assaulted) get to stay at home all day and raise Michelle's kids for her until they get married off to be under the headship of another fundie boy and get pregnant within a year of the wedding. Yay! Edited June 6, 2015 by Janet Snakehole

[Quilt Fairy]

I just don't get the school of thought on having a child pay for their own treatment.  anyone have an explanation for this?

All I can make of it is that they think it makes it look like they were really serious about Josh going to counseling (and that he actually did go).

 

.....and get pregnant within a year of the wedding.

That's too much delay. It's "and have a child within a year of the wedding."

Edited June 6, 2015 by Quilt Fairy

[UsernameFatigue]

I have never watched 19 Kids and Counting, and did not watch Michelle and Jim Bob's interview. But decided to watch the girls tonight. Fascinating. Jessa very early on forgot her talking points and drifted off, looking at Jill to carry on. Obviously they were coached. I was struck at how, especially Jessa, said several times that Josh was a completely changed person after he came back from being sent away. But if neither Jessa or Jill actually knew he molested them without their parents telling them, what was to change? They supposedly didn't know there was anything wrong with him to start with.

 

Also Jessa said at one point that she has talked to many girls who had it way worse than they did. If this was a family secret, who in the world did she talk to? And since from what I understand they only associate with other people who share their religious beliefs, I guess all of these other girls were church friends? Yikes. But really, I just think she was lying.

 

I also laughed when Jessa complained about seeing their faces on magazines now that this has come out. I have been sick of seeing their faces on magazines for years, when their only claim to fame is the parents breed like rabbits. And Jill and Jessa have been non stop on the cover of People for a couple of years now - so much that I refuse (even before this came out) to buy any magazine that they are on the cover of. Except I did buy In Touch when the story broke, because I like to support porn empires. Lol.

 

Lastly, I don't watch the show so do not know how much makeup the girls normally wear. But I was struck by how much makeup they had plastered on. I would have thought that if they are supposed to dress modestly so as not to attract male attention (because men just cannot help themselves) that makeup would follow along the same vein. After all, isn't the point of wearing makeup to make yourself more attractive?

[Darknight]

Jessa defense mechanism is probably keeping it inside and forgetting. Jessa laughing and her not wanting to kiss in front of the alter is probably her way of dealing with things.

I didn't know Jessa knew what porn was.

Jill - there may be an agenda. The tabloids are USED TO EXPLOITING WOMEN. But you're on People magazine with your husband and child making money and selling your wedding pics

Jessa - the parent company Bauer publishing, they're a major porn provider I dont know, maybe theyre just used to MAKING OBJECTS OUT OF WOMEN. Maybe we didnt seem any different. No Jessa your parents and bill gothard made sex objects out of women. Totally a JB response.

Jessa saying Josh was a teenage boy who had raging hormones speaks volumes about how brainwashed they are. These girls want their spin off badly. JB is willing to go at all lengths to get it.

[Wellfleet]

I used to spend a LOT of time on a true crime forum. I often read court documents and discovery documents where children were the victims of adults who they are related to. Although the names of the children and the addresses were redacted, one could almost always identify the victim if they wanted to thanks to searching the Internet and spying around on Facebook. (The forum did not allow members to post their names.) When newspapers write articles about such cases, they'll often say a "young relative age seven who lived in the home" or a "six-year old child of perp's girlfriend," etc. The very nature of these crimes happening in families - so both the victim and the perp are related and probably live together - means that, unfortunately, victims can be easily identified thanks to the Internet or in some cases, even small town gossip, church gossip, etc. It is awful and unfortunate. It has to further hurt the victims. However, that is unfortunately the way it is in 2015. In no way is it some sort of special persecution against the Duggars or unusual. It was magnified by the fact that the girls are celebrities so it was big news compared to a blurb in the local paper or a court case some true crime junkies are discussing on an Internet forum. It's not right, but the way it is, people can do a little leg work and ID children who are victims in cases where the perp was a family member. It's not something specific only to the Duggars. Sometimes I think they might be implying it is with all the "these girls' privacy was breached" talk because really, all victims can easily have their privacy breached in similar situations. They just aren't on TV. /end rant

 

This fact has been very surprising to me too. Who the heck do people THINK Josh abused? He was never around girls other than his sisters! Once a year they all went to the homeschool conference but that was about it. There weren't any other opportunities to be in the vicinity of sleeping females, were there? It wasn't because of poor redacting or InTouch magazine that the nation knows who Josh's victims were. Any bright five-year old who could read could have figured this out.

[melanie]

Usernamefatigue -- They wear so much makeup because they want people to notice and focus on their "countenance" -- the thing that the rest of us call a face.  They were wearing a little more than usual.  

 

The one thing that stuck out to me was that when they described Josh after his magical transformation through his stint in construction rehab, they described him a both changed and humble.  They used the word humble several times -- I am sure they were coached to do this.  Has anyone seen Josh act in any way that can be described as humble?  He did get the nickname Smuggar for a reason and it was not for his humility.  If the new and improved Josh that we all got to see was the "new creature" with all of the humility, can you imagine what he was like before?  

 

Everyone keeps asking about "Where's Josh?" and that is a valid question, but I am extremely concerned about him and his mental health at this point.  These allegations come out, he loses his job, has 3 children and one on the way, feels responsible for destroying his dad's little empire, etc. etc. etc. Men have cracked under much less stress.  He was also never really allowed to grow up.  His dad still pulls all the strings, so emotionally he is probably still a child.  That which does not kill us makes us stronger and hopefully in Josh's case this will also make him a little more humble.  

[mynextmistake]

Well, huh. I won't make any substantive comments about Jill or Jessa's interview because I respect Jill and Jessa as survivors and support their right to their own experiences.

Two things about the broader issues raised by the interviews, though. First, I wonder how they will be received by the general public? And second, I'm not sure who advised the family to go after In Touch, but I don't know if it was the best move. They have more money and a MUCH bigger pulpit than the Duggars, and now they have no reason to keep the gloves on. At the very least, I expect an article that outlines every single inconsistency between these interviews and the police report. I can't imagine that was what the Duggars or their handlers wanted.

[Happyfatchick]

I do not have a molester in my home but as a victim of abuse as a child believe me there are safeguards in my home.  My kids are mostly grown but the rules I had were strict and we did not bend them.  EVER.

 

It's not 2/3 but it is really high based on this report I found.  Full disclosure, I know nothing about the website I just googled and this came up.  A study conducted in 1986 found that 63% of women who had suffered sexual abuse by a family member also reported a rape or attempted rape after the age of 14. Recent studies in 2000, 2002, and 2005 have all concluded similar results (page 8).  The typical statistic I see is 1 in 5 women have experienced sexual abuse. Honestly, in my circle of friends it's higher. Which makes me wonder if the statistic is off because so many girls still don't report and when they do it's brushed off like this case.

 

ETA: I understood the 2/3 as referring to the sexual abuse in general not necessarily by a sibling.

I hadn't planned to post at all tonight, was just going to read through and think over the information. But when I read the statement in red, my brain screeched to a halt. I was absolutely blown away by the thought that I am in a MINORITY by not having been molested by a family member. Seriously??? Can I be a minority??? Is this the norm? I am frightened and appalled if this is true. As we say in the south DAY-UM! I read it again, slower and more carefully digesting the sentence. Much to my relief, it reads to me as though 63% of the women WHO HAD SUFFERED SEXUAL ABUSE BY A FAMILY MEMBER went on to report an actual rape later.

In other words, I'm not getting that 63% of all women are molested by family members. I'm getting that 63% of the women who DO suffer abuse at the hands of family members (whatever THAT number may be) are then reporting rapes or molestation later in life. [For every 100 women who ARE molested by a family member, 63 of them will report a sexual crime up to and including rape later. Is that correct?]

I don't mean to gnit-pick,

One case is too many, this is so painfully true. I just cannot BEAR the thought if I look out at a group of 100 of my friends, 63 of them have suffered molestation at the hands of a family member. This is just not possible. im not that naive, I'm pretty well versed and plenty rounded. however, this HAS caused me to pause and I will do my research and report back.

[mynextmistake]

Usernamefatigue -- They wear so much makeup because they want people to notice and focus on their "countenance" -- the thing that the rest of us call a face.  They were wearing a little more than usual.  

 

The one thing that stuck out to me was that when they described Josh after his magical transformation through his stint in construction rehab, they described him a both changed and humble.  They used the word humble several times -- I am sure they were coached to do this.  Has anyone seen Josh act in any way that can be described as humble?  He did get the nickname Smuggar for a reason and it was not for his humility.  If the new and improved Josh that we all got to see was the "new creature" with all of the humility, can you imagine what he was like before?  

 

Everyone keeps asking about "Where's Josh?" and that is a valid question, but I am extremely concerned about him and his mental health at this point.  These allegations come out, he loses his job, has 3 children and one on the way, feels responsible for destroying his dad's little empire, etc. etc. etc. Men have cracked under much less stress.  He was also never really allowed to grow up.  His dad still pulls all the strings, so emotionally he is probably still a child.  That which does not kill us makes us stronger and hopefully in Josh's case this will also make him a little more humble.

You know, I'm not all that concerned about Josh. I don't mean that I'm not concerned because I want bad things to happen to him or anything like that. I mean that I'm not concerned because I don't think he's capable of the level of introspection that would lead to the kind of breakdown you're describing. He's been raised as the "precious" oldest son of a highly patriarchal family in a highly patriarchal system. Basically, it seems like his whole life he's been brought up to believe that he's the second (only to JimBob) most important member of the family and that everyone else is, to an extent, there to serve him. To me, his smugness is a sign that he's internalized that message and, at some level, really believes it. I could see him being angry about this, and maybe even embarrassed. But I just don't think he's self-aware enough to be ashamed or depressed about it.

[leighroda]

One of the victims is still a minor, so I'm guessing that may be part of the reason she wasn't interviewed, i guess they just decided to allow Jessa and Jill be the spokespeople.

Here's what I don't understand, how both Megyn and the Duggars are going on and on about how evil the media is, while doing a media interview. I mean, I get that they have a right to tell their side or what they were told was their side, but if the media is as bad as you say, then why not just walk away? And as far as Megyn is concerned, it's all the evil media, but you sure did swoop right in to get your interview, and without this interview I would still not know who you were.

I don't know what to say about this interview, I don't really want to criticize them because I do agree that regardless of how much was dealt with prior to all of this coming out, it is in a sense a revictimization, so I don't want to take that lightly, but I also don't think they did anyone any good with their interview by minimizing the pain of being molested. If they really are ok and have moved on, then good for them, but I guess I would feel better if they fessed up to it being scary, hurtful, creepy, violated... Whatever they felt, but that they worked through it vs how they are saying it really wasn't a big deal.

[mynextmistake]

I hadn't planned to post at all tonight, was just going to read through and think over the information. But when I read the statement in red, my brain screeched to a halt. I was absolutely blown away by the thought that I am in a MINORITY by not having been molested by a family member. Seriously??? Can I be a minority??? Is this the norm? I am frightened and appalled if this is true. As we say in the south DAY-UM! I read it again, slower and more carefully digesting the sentence. Much to my relief, it reads to me as though 63% of the women WHO HAD SUFFERED SEXUAL ABUSE BY A FAMILY MEMBER went on to report an actual rape later.

In other words, I'm not getting that 63% of all women are molested by family members. I'm getting that 63% of the women who DO suffer abuse at the hands of family members (whatever THAT number may be) are then reporting rapes or molestation later in life. [For every 100 women who ARE molested by a family member, 63 of them will report a sexual crime up to and including rape later. Is that correct?]

I don't mean to gnit-pick,

One case is too many, this is so painfully true. I just cannot BEAR the thought if I look out at a group of 100 of my friends, 63 of them have suffered molestation at the hands of a family member. This is just not possible. im not that naive, I'm pretty well versed and plenty rounded. however, this HAS caused me to pause and I will do my research and report back.

You're interpreting the statistic correctly, I think. 63% of women who are abused by family later report a rape. Nowhere does it say that 63% of women are abused by family.

[NikSac]

Who is Mary, please

 

"Grandma" - Jim Bob's Mom. aka the laundry-doer who does something like 80 loads of laundry per week, if I remember right?

 

IMaybe the PR professionals could weigh in on whether that was a prudent point to raise.

 

I am also curious to hear what the PR pros might say, but frankly I think public opinion is a bigger deal in this case, regardless of what an expert might say.  I'm going with no, not prudent.

 

Why did they have to repeat that Josh paid for his own counseling?

 

Because it was on their script?  Now why it was important I have no idea... but apparently it was on their list of stuff to cover.  Their list was surprisingly similar to JB and Michelle's.

 

It kind of seemed like Jessa was bragging about Josh’s stealth ability to molest. 

 

You're absolutely right, and I just realized THIS is what bothered me so much about that part of the interview. It was like she was proud of her brother for being so sneaky and sly about it.

[Muffyn]

Happyfatchick, please check this site:  http://www.pandys.org/articles/siblingsexualabuse.html   The numbers for sibling abuse are much lower than the ridiculous, pulled out of thin air 2/3 that they stated. You are reading the above correctly; that is, of thise who have been molested there was later a rape 63% of the time.  This does not specify whether the subsequent rape was committed by the family member either.

Edited June 6, 2015 by Muffyn

[NikSac]

Also Jessa said at one point that she has talked to many girls who had it way worse than they did. If this was a family secret, who in the world did she talk to?

 

<snip>

 

Lastly, I don't watch the show so do not know how much makeup the girls normally wear. But I was struck by how much makeup they had plastered on. I would have thought that if they are supposed to dress modestly so as not to attract male attention (because men just cannot help themselves) that makeup would follow along the same vein. After all, isn't the point of wearing makeup to make yourself more attractive?

 

I am assuming they must have talked to the same people JB talked to who said that "inappropriate touching" is nothing compared to the families he talked to. The girls are just lucky they weren't raped!  (yeah right...)

 

I only watch sporadically but the girls always have a ton of makeup on.  They seem to spend hours on their hair, too.  I think they're allowed to make their "countenance" (aka face/hair) look attractive, but otherwise they have to be modest.

[buddabing]

"Grandma" - Jim Bob's Mom. aka the laundry-doer who does something like 80 loads of laundry per week, if I remember right?

 

 

I am also curious to hear what the PR pros might say, but frankly I think public opinion is a bigger deal in this case, regardless of what an expert might say.  I'm going with no, not prudent.

 

 

Because it was on their script?  Now why it was important I have no idea... but apparently it was on their list of stuff to cover.  Their list was surprisingly similar to JB and Michelle's.

 

 

You're absolutely right, and I just realized THIS is what bothered me so much about that part of the interview. It was like she was proud of her brother for being so sneaky and sly about it.

They aren't allowed to show any other emotion than smiling. Something is really not right here. They are so stunted in their growth, they are not adults. They sound like 15 year old high schoolers. 

[buddabing]

I am really bothered by the thinking their "safe guards" worked. People molest others of the same sex as well. They do not understand at all  what the roots of abuse are and how to deal with it. This is tragic that they don't even get that they were violated.

[buddabing]

I am a very sensitive person and cry easily. I didn't feel anything when Jill cried at all. House of lies!

[Darknight]

I am really bothered by the thinking their "safe guards" worked. People molest others of the same sex as well. They do not understand at all what the roots of abuse are and how to deal with it. This is tragic that they don't even get that they were violated.

Safe guards doesn't do shit. I don't think Jill or JimChelle realize anyone can molest a child. Men women young old black white christian non christian. A female can molest another female or male. I wonder how they would handle a female doing this. Preventing your kids from hugging touching etc is making things worse.

I'm happy this interview is over. Now can these people go away Anyone notice the paper on Jill's lap? Jessa looking to the left...

[Happyfatchick]

Seriously, Photofox, I think my sister would recoil with "ARE YOU HIGH? OR DRUNK? WHY ARE YOU TOUCHING ME!!!"

 

It's just not how we were raised - I'm not british but Dad is and um... British people don't touch!

HahahaHAAAA!!!!! I'm in the south, and we are hugging fools! We can actually hug total strangers. Currently, we have a Spanish exchange student among our family. She's very airy and self sufficient, extremely euro-urban. She has adjusted now (took her a year!) but when she first came, it was HILARIOUS watching her submit to our hug fests!

I would have thought it awkward if Jessa had offered a hug - clearly that's not her personality and she's said as much. Not a musher, that one. BUT... your sister is C.R.Y.I.N.G., and it's heartfelt and she could have at the very least acknowledged it. Reached over and squeezed her hand or someThing. (I think Jill herself may have thrown up her hands to fend off a hug, but I think she'd have been grateful for a little hand Pat).

Turning left (or even hanging a u-ie), when Jill was mentioning the safeguards her parents put in place and what an awesome job they did, and went on to say she hoped she could do that in her own home someday...

Yes, that was odd.

You're HOME, Jill! Honey girl, you are launched. You can put up baby gates every 3 feet, you can cook what you want, eat what you want, you can even have a glass of wine if you want. (Frankly, you've earned it). You can double, triple, quadruple lock every door including the linen closet if you want. You can waste toilet paper and eat off REAL DISHES AND HONEST-TO -GOD silverware. You don't have to "hope" you can implement safeguards against your children doing inappropriate things; you are allowed to do whatever you think is necessary. Don't have to pass "go", don't have to collect your $200 in Monopoly money - and most important and exciting of all, you don't have to run it by your parents. YOU.ARE.FREE!!!!!

My fervent and most heartfelt, sincere prayer for you, Jill, is that you have the most normal happy family in the history of EVER. I hope it NEVER EVER is necessary for you to have safeguards to protect your children from one another.

[cheatincheetos]

Mrs. Betty Bowers ‏@BettyBowers 4h4 hours ago

#TheDuggars PR team told them: Talk about Josh's miraculous "change." But the only change they care about appears when they cash a TLC check
35 retweets 67 favorites

 

Mrs. Betty Bowers ‏@BettyBowers 7h7 hours ago

#TheDuggars told @FoxNews "We had no duty to report abuse." They homeschool. Arkansas law requires teachers to report

[Micks Picks]

HappyFatChick, you are a hoot!  With all the stats being thrown around on frankly all topics to support any and all stupid statements, and with the plethora of abuse going on, I feel very strange that I was never abused.  Went to 12 years Catholic school and was never hit on by a man of the cloth (figures, they went for boys) but also never got hit on by a woman of the cloth and we were in boarding school.  I've traveled alone to many places both touristy and exotic and survived with no gross injustice to my body.  Hey, I ain't that damned ugly.  But I feel like I'm the only one left.  Not to insult anyone, hell, sometimes 90 year old women get raped.  If I saw that happen I'd shoot the SOB right in the …..

[Kromm]

I think they need to move on and not be on TV.    Give Iz and Jessa’s baby a chance at a real life.    I get that you love your film crew.  Have a little get together once a year.  Call and write each other.

People like this show their true colors in that as much as you'd think getting off TV once they've made their fortune would be best for them... unless maybe FORCED off (like might happen here) or ratings going through the floor, they don't leave.  Because they do it for the fame just as much as the financial security.

[cmr2014]

It kind of seemed like Jessa was bragging about Josh’s stealth ability to molest.  Isn’t it great that he could get in a quick brush across a breast without the girls even being sure it happened?  Yuck.  It hadn’t occurred to me until now that Jessa was also pre-pubescent when this occurred.  So he went after a 5 year old and a 9 year; the creepiness is so overwhelming. 

 

This is one of the reason why I don't think they actually hired a PR person -- or if they did, they didn't listen to the advice. I can't imagine any reputable PR firm coaching them to say over and over that the "girls were asleep," and "barely felt anything," and "didn't really understand what was going on." I think to JB this makes the entire thing less of a violation, and really not that big of a deal.

 

It really seems obvious to me that JB and J'chelle haven't spent 5 minutes in the past 12 years researching sexual abuse. If my son had abused my daughters, I would have read everything I could find on the subject. I would have contacted specialists and used whatever resources I had at my disposal to make sure that 1) my daughters received proper counseling and felt safe (and were safe) in their home and 2) that my son received actual counseling (not just punishment) and that I had some understanding of the risk of his re-offending.

 

Their lack of empathy for their own children combined with their rigid refusal to look beyond the limits of Gothardism and "Widsom Booklets" is mind boggling.

 

And, one more thing. I'm sure that JB and J'chelle highlighted the talking point for Jill and Jessa  that DFS thought that JB and J'chelle were "great" and they had "never worked with such a great family," but I cannot believe -- in my wildest imagination -- that a PR firm suggested that they stress this as a talking point. It's just simply preposterous.

[txvoodoo]

I have to say that Jessa's issue with legal pornography really did not sit well when coupled with the family statement that Josh touched them while they were sleeping because he was just curious about girls.  He probably could have dealt with his girl curiosity in a healthier way if he had looked at consenting adults.  I mean, normal boys his age are often sneaking looks at Playboy and such.  

Exactly. If the choices for your son to satisfy his puberty curiosity are A) read porn or B) molest his sisters, and you think B is a better choice, well...I don't know what to say.

[CofCinci]

You can tell when Jessa had a hard time regurgitating the script because she'd stall and say "like".

"He’s very subtle anyway. Like, he knew in his mind, ‘My actions are wrong and I have bad intentions.’ But he was very sly, like, ‘The girls didn’t catch on.’ Like, you catch the girls sleeping, a quick feel or whatever… Or like, in the situations that happened where the girls were awake, they weren’t aware of what was happening. It was very subtle… It wasn’t a horror story.”

[Brooklynista]

I just can't rectify in my mind how Josh fondling the girls was no big deal but seeing Jessa hold Ben's hand during prayer almost made Michelle go apeshit.

[starfire]

What kind of state-accredited, licensed counseling program would require a juvenile to pay for his or her own counseling? I am guessing none and I tend to doubt it would be legal. I hope not anyway.

 

So basically Josh did construction work for some friend of JimBob and this guy kept the money Josh would have earned and paid himself to counsel him? Am I missing something?

[silverspoons]

I am really bothered by the thinking their "safe guards" worked. People molest others of the same sex as well. They do not understand at all  what the roots of abuse are and how to deal with it. This is tragic that they don't even get that they were violated.

What was worse was Jill said she planned to use the same safeguards in her home!

 

As for Josh paying for is counseling, several ideas:

Jim Bob said he had insurance then so maybe Josh just made a co-pay?

Lets say the insurance did not cover mental health or had a high deductible , I can't imagine there wasn't a sliding scale facility so how much would they make a family of 16 pay for therapy pre-TLC money? Not much

or the therapy was at the Church of Gothard and the payment wasn't money.

 

Plus how much could a 15 year old young teen boy have when he made .03 a chore or did he get therapy once he was a 16 year old adult with his own business?

[WalrusGirl]

I wished Jessa had stuck a hand out to Jill too, but I think that could be a few things. I don't watch avidly enough to know if she and Jill are affectionate the way she can be with Jinger (hugging her at the rehearsal dinner), or any contact may make it harder for Jill to pull herself back together. Jessa was also visibly fronting - contact may have eroded her coping mechanism too.

How dare Josh let the other members of the family bear this incredible burden. I guess having to live with himself and the hell he has wrought is punishment enough in his eyes.

I know he'd be a PR disaster, but really, how much more do these girls have to shoulder for this family? Their childhoods weren't enough?

I agree, but really Josh has very little to gain and an awful lot (more) to lose by doing any interview. Legally he's surely been advised not to - while the statute has run out, he has his own little kids, and the odds are, what, 100%? that any answers to interview questions will be creepy and disturbing at best. Even if it were 15 year old Josh speaking the words, but especially coming from the mouth of someone pushing 30. He isn't getting his FRC job back, he's off TLC no matter what, there's literally nothing he can say to repair his public image right now - but any interview will be watched by CPS (and reported to CPS by thousands of viewers), and even an investigation with nothing actionable to be found isn't at all worth risking (from his perspective). With them, he has nothing to gain and everything to lose.

So while it's disgusting that the girls are out there trying to help the family business recover (for my own coping, I like to believe that they're adults and truly wanted to do the interview at this point, for their own interests), doing an interview is the most idiotic thing he could possibly do at this point. It's surely the legal advice he's been given, but may have also been a stipulation in his quick resignation from FRC. Any interview brings their name up a few more times in connection with this, so no public statement or media from him (for a certain period of time) beyond the initial statement that included his resignation seems entirely plausible.

We've seen Jill, Jana, Jinger and Joy all become emotional over various things, but Jessa? Not really. She's rather cold.

Except with Ben - based on her voice, I believe her tears were real when he proposed, and her voice goes emotionally soft sometimes when she's talking to and looking at him. That connection/relationship is how I got on board with them.

I just don't get the school of thought on having a child pay for their own treatment. anyone have an explanation for this?

My guess is that Josh didn't pay for the three month "treatment" program his parents sent him to. My impression from both interviews is that he had to pay for the "accredited" (quotes because that's how they've referred to it) counseling, which - again, my impression - was probably mandated after the 12/2006 investigation. So he probably wasn't paying for what they really thought of as his treatment/rehab, but for the state-ordered consequence a few years later. I can see their logic - especially since he was then 17/18 at that point and probably earning the money directly from them with jobs for JB anyway, then paying it back to them as reimbursement for the mandated sessions.

(I'm not co-signing this approach, it's just my impression of the thinking behind it! I'd have wanted him to get everything he could out of it, and been worried about making him resent the therapy and negating that goal, but if my kid were court-ordered to pay restitution or something, I wouldn't pay that for them. Since it was likely mandatory several years later and after what they saw as the successful treatment/rehab, they probably viewed it as his being responsible for the consequences.)