Race & Ethnicity On TV

[jhlipton]

1 hour ago, Irlandesa said:

The problem with the "they should just walk away" is that it will continue to disadvantage certain groups of people.

They're not likely to say "oh we fucked up" until outside voices start pointing at them and saying "well you fucked up."

"Walk away to where?" is the question.  (Although it looks like Hill will be on a show -- Suits -- before Roday!)

And after TPTB finally say "We fucked up", they'll go and fuck up again -- FOX.

46 minutes ago, Ms Blue Jay said:

Don't you think it's kind of insulting to treat people of colour as interchangeable?  Kind of like, collectibles?  And I think it's horrible the show forced out 2 actors by refusing to pay them higher so they could hire some new actors that they don't have to pay as much.  It's just gross, bad treatment all around.  I don't know how anyone could even be okay watching.

Again, this conversation came up when we knew Kim and Park were leaving but before we knew why.  So, no, they're not interchangeable (in fact, I made point of this when Dark Matter seemed to trade Melanie Liburd [Nyx] for Ayisha Issa [Solara] before it looked like it was Liburd's decision to leave).  But I ask that you read @Trini's original comment -- it was solely about how many of the leads were minorities.  The financials will be f**ked no matter who they hire -- it's certainly not going to be anyone of Kim's or Park's caliber, knowing that they'll be the "hired help" to the white stars -- but they can keep the "majority is minorities" situation they have.

The character I've heard of -- a lifeguard who becomes part of 5-0 -- sounds ghastly though; like yet another of the "ditzy" women that troupe through the show without ever gaining a personality.  I can't think that anyone with any acting skill would want to take this role, know how little CBS values it.

[Raja]

35 minutes ago, jhlipton said:

 

The character I've heard of -- a lifeguard who becomes part of 5-0 -- sounds ghastly though; like yet another of the "ditzy" women that troupe through the show without ever gaining a personality.  I can't think that anyone with any acting skill would want to take this role, know how little CBS values it.

It sounds like a replay of Grace Park's Kono is a surfer turned 5-0 mixed with the running joke of the Baywatch movie

[Minneapple]

2 hours ago, Irlandesa said:

Priyanka Chopra was rather unknown in the US, although I had heard of her, but she actually had proven star power (which is why I had heard of her).  It was unknown whether or not that would translate to the US but she had some bonafides.  Alex did not.

But we don't know if he had a deal. 

 

According to his Wikipedia, he had one with CBS.

[Raja]

10 hours ago, Irlandesa said:

Priyanka Chopra was rather unknown in the US, although I had heard of her, but she actually had proven star power (which is why I had heard of her).  It was unknown whether or not that would translate to the US but she had some bonafides.  Alex did not.

 

 

It seems to work like the draft of college athletes into the pros. At a level, maybe in Australia Alex O'Loughlin showed promise like Priyanka Chopra did so they get a deal. He might flame out after three years like most pro athletes do or you might have secured the next Michael Jordan for your team, only time will tell. As of now CBS got 8 seasons of 5-0 and two one year and out seasons of other shows out of their draft choice, while ABC only 4 and counting on Quantico out of theirs, time will tell who wins in the end. With Priyanka Chopra now showing up in movies she could jump ship deal or no deal.

Edited July 8, 2017 by Raja

[Haleth]

9 hours ago, Ms Blue Jay said:

And I think it's horrible the show forced out 2 actors by refusing to pay them higher so they could hire some new actors that they don't have to pay as much.

This happens in the real (not Hollywood) world all the time and yes, it's horrible.  Kind of how I lost my job.

8 hours ago, jhlipton said:

I can't think that anyone with any acting skill would want to take this role, know how little CBS values it.

Hey, it's a paycheck.  I don't see any up and coming young actors turning it down for fear of being treated badly.

[Jaded]

10 hours ago, jhlipton said:

I can't think that anyone with any acting skill would want to take this role, know how little CBS values it.

It's supposedly the last season for the show since Alex's contract is coming to an end and he's hinted that he doesn't want to do it anymore. So whoever signs on this last season to fill these new roles might do it for money and some exposure since they would more likely then not be on for one season and done. Unless Alex is bluffing for more $$$. 

[Irlandesa]

4 hours ago, Raja said:

It seems to work like the draft of college athletes into the pros. At a level, maybe in Australia Alex O'Loughlin showed promise like Priyanka Chopra did so they get a deal.

I looked at Priyanka's IMDb page.  And I looked at Alex's.  Perhaps some Australian here can better address his fame in his home country prior to moving to the US but her work prior to moving to the US is extensive. She started about two years before he did but her credits dwarf his. It looks like he did a few things here and there, appeared on the Shield for a few episodes and then did Moonlight.  So definitely like a draft but a draft where a white man was deemed to be valuable with far less work than the Indian woman.

[Ms Blue Jay]

Yeah, Priyanka is a big big deal.  I totally get why she had her opportunities in the US.  Just read her Wikipedia or IMDB:  "One of India's highest-paid and most popular celebrities".  You're not going to see similar reading about Alex.

[jhlipton]

7 hours ago, Haleth said:

Hey, it's a paycheck.  I don't see any up and coming young actors turning it down for fear of being treated badly.

Someone just starting in the "biz", sure.  It would be a good entry level job. The saying is "You can't eat exposure" but a relatively low-paying job on 5-0 could lead to much better jobs down the road.

[DearEvette]

Industry mags and mainstream press are weighing in the the CBS situation and so far it looks like opinion seems to be in Park & Kim's favor.

This Vanity Fair article makes a lot of the same points we've made on this board

There is a Salon article that brings the shade:

Quote

O’Loughlin was another actor CBS was determined to make into a star regardless of the fact that he was the face of two failed series, “Moonlight” and “Three Rivers.”

Variety thinks CBS made the wrong call

In the Salon article there is an autoplay video that states that the call for increased diversity in tv and film has been largely centered on African Americans, Latinos and LGBTQ+ inclusion with Asian Americans left off to the side.  My immediate reaction to that is that is a passive statement. The call for diversity doesn't just happen.  White Hollywood isn't going to give up anything. It may feel like the the call for inclusiveness seems to be centered on Blacks, Latinos and Gays because they are louder about it and those are the voices you hear more?  Or rather they are so used to the struggle that the availability of a collective platform that can reach millions in the form of social media is has allowed them to amplifying those voices in a new way.  But no one was leaving Asian Americans out, they just weren't as loud about it.  And now I think finally Asian Americans are adding their voices to the chorus.  It is one of the reasons I love following Constance Wu on twitter.  She is very vocal and is one of the few women who speak out.    There is an LA Times article that sort of addresses it:
 

Quote

 

Asian Americans say they face unique challenges because of ingrained stereotypes, including a perception that Asians are not complainers and thus will show up and dutifully do the work. “We are always the model minority,” Hong said.....

“Five years ago, this wouldn’t have gotten this kind of attention,” said Janet Yang, producer of “The People vs. Larry Flynt” and “The Joy Luck Club.” She and others credited the #OscarsSoWhite controversy for encouraging Asian Americans to stand up for their rights.

“More people are emboldened now,” Yang said. “The African American community has led the conversation for so long, and now it’s expanded to other minorities.”

 

Edited July 8, 2017 by DearEvette

[xaxat]

On 7/7/2017 at 5:51 PM, Ms Blue Jay said:

Am I supposed to be impressed by fucking Alex O'Loughlin?  I never knew who TF this guy was.

Until I read this thread I didn't know Caan The Younger's name. I only know O'Louglin's name and work from reading this thread.

However I did know the work of Daniel Dae Kim, Grace Park (Who I have had a crush on ever since Galactica. Somehow I have gotten older and she hasn't.), Chi McBride, Jorge Garcia and Masi Oka (another POC who left the show recently).

10 hours ago, Haleth said:

Hey, it's a paycheck.  I don't see any up and coming young actors turning it down for fear of being treated badly.

For anyone who hasn't seen them, I highly recommend Kal Penn's tweets about scripts he auditioned for when he was starting out.

[Trini]

2 hours ago, xaxat said:

... and Masi Oka (another POC who left the show recently).

I'm the one who put the "5 out of 7" statement about the regular cast; I didn't know about Masi Oka leaving. I went with the cast list on CBS' webpage for the show. So I guess it's 4 out of 6 for minority regulars; although I don't think it changes the discussion.

[Ms Blue Jay]

O’Loughlin was another actor CBS was determined to make into a star regardless of the fact that he was the face of two failed series, “Moonlight” and “Three Rivers.”

Failing upwards.  Happens to a lot of white men in the biz, like super young white men who direct movies that fail or make zero money at the box office and then are offered big superhero movies or Jurassic World.  Lexi Alexander tweets a lot about it.

I watch a lot of comedy, so lately I've seen Jason Mantzoukas everywhere.  Brooklyn 99, The House, Sleeping with Other People.  He says he gets cast as Indian or Arab a lot, but he is "100% Greek".  Good for him for his career, but it disappoints me in these white movies I'm watching, when I think I'm watching a person of colour being cast as the buddy, he actually isn't one (Brooklyn 99 is of course a VERY diverse show, so I don't mean that.)  I just think it's interesting.  Somebody who's career is doing amazingly well in comedy (he's obviously very well connected to Will Ferrell's production team) is of course, not an actual person of colour.......

[Featherhat]

19 hours ago, Irlandesa said:

I looked at Priyanka's IMDb page.  And I looked at Alex's.  Perhaps some Australian here can better address his fame in his home country prior to moving to the US but her work prior to moving to the US is extensive. She started about two years before he did but her credits dwarf his. It looks like he did a few things here and there, appeared on the Shield for a few episodes and then did Moonlight.  So definitely like a draft but a draft where a white man was deemed to be valuable with far less work than the Indian woman.

Did he have the deal prior to "Moonlight"? That only went one season (I think partly because of the strike?) but as said above its fans were INTENSE about AOL and he did/does fit perfectly within the CBS wheelhouse of white male lead. IIRC there was a lot of speculation that he wanted to turn down H5O but then executive Nina Tassler eventually threw so much money at him that he felt he couldn't turn it down. It only takes being a favourite of 1 powerful person to get you pilot after pilot or series after series on a particular network. And for the CW, home of the pretty ( mostly white) and bland if you guest star on more than 2 of their show's you're practically guaranteed to either get your own pilot or join an existing show as a regular at some point.

[xaxat]

Interview with Fatimah Asghar and Sam Bailey about the process of taking their webseries Brown Girls (which features zero white characters) to HBO.

Edited July 9, 2017 by xaxat

[DearEvette]

1 hour ago, Featherhat said:

It only takes being a favourite of 1 powerful person to get you pilot after pilot or series after series on a particular network. And for the CW, home of the pretty ( mostly white) and bland if you guest star on more than 2 of their show's you're practically guaranteed to either get your own pilot or join an existing show as a regular at some point.

So much this.  And this is why I give a major side eye to anyone who tries to place equal blame on whatever backstage drama happened between Archie Panjabi and Julianna Margulies.  Margulies was a pet of Moonves and Tassler going back to when they were all working on ER.  She had a lot of power on The Good Wife and had the muscle of two of the highest people at the network behind her.  If Archie had been in any way an instigator or active participant of any friction with Margulies she would have been gone in a hot minute.  As it was Kalinda's  screen time and story line suffered tremendously before she finally left.

I know other networks do the development deals with new talent they want to keep, but CBS seems to almost treat it like the old Hollywood studio system.  You see their same actors over and over again.  This extends to the CW as you mentioned.  Peyton List comes to mind.  She's been a CW staple since the 90210 reboot.  She's been he lead two failed series there.  And now she's been cast in the new CBS series, Mission Control -- the one where they couldn't find a black actor to play the lead written for a black character.

Edited July 9, 2017 by DearEvette

[Featherhat]

33 minutes ago, DearEvette said:

So much this.  And this is why I give a major side eye to anyone who tries to place equal blame on whatever backstage drama happened between Archie Panjabi and Julianna Margulies.  Margulies was a pet of Moonves and Tassler going back to when they were all working on ER.  She had a lot of power on The Good Wife and had the muscle of two of the highest people at the network behind her.  If Archie had been in any way an instigator or active participant of any friction with Margulies she would have been gone in a hot minute.  As it was Kalinda's  screen time and story line suffered tremendously before she finally left.

I know other networks do the development deals with new talent they want to keep, but CBS seems to almost treat it like the old Hollywood studio system.  You see their same actors over and over again.  This extends to the CW as you mentioned.  Peyton List comes to mind.  She's been a CW staple since the 90210 reboot.  She's been he lead two failed series there.  And now she's been cast in the new CBS series, Mission Control -- the one where they couldn't find a black actor to play the lead written for a black character.

I was thinking a lot of Chris Wood during the CW bit.

On CBS Mechad Brooks was cast as James Olsen Supergirl's Love Interest showing an interracial (presumed main) couple with another interracial temp couple, the show moves to the CW and he's abruptly replaced by Chris Wood who's (white) and been on three CW shows before and is much more their type of LI. Now I don't think race was the only fact in this, MB supposedly did ask for some accommodations due to the move to Vancouver, and the love story wasn't particularly brilliant either IMO, but I certainly wouldn't be surprised if it was a factor for the network. Chris Wood was in the queue to have a shot at regular status (again).....voila. And to give him his credit, he's trying his best with what he's been given. He's also sort of taken over the show, which is a rant for another thread.

It isn't AOL's fault that NT and CBS were willing to throw silly money at him until he agreed to do H50, nor that his co stars got less, but CBS, gah so tone deaf about "how we gave them unprecedented increases that still don't match the white guys". I wonder if they were actually close.

[jhlipton]

5 hours ago, xaxat said:

Interview with Fatimah Asghar and Sam Bailey about the process of taking their webseries Brown Girls (which features zero white characters) to HBO.

"zero white characters"????  We can't have that!!!

3 hours ago, Featherhat said:

I was thinking a lot of Chris Wood during the CW bit.

On CBS Mechad Brooks was cast as James Olsen Supergirl's Love Interest showing an interracial (presumed main) couple with another interracial temp couple, the show moves to the CW and he's abruptly replaced by Chris Wood who's (white) and been on three CW shows before and is much more their type of LI.

To give CW a little bit of due, the LIs of Ravi (Indian) and Clive (Black) on iZombie have almost all been white (I think Clive had a black girlfriend for 1 episode).  There are, of course, no Black women on the show (#BlackWomenAreScary) so we don't know how they would have played that,

[pivot]

5 hours ago, DearEvette said:

So much this.  And this is why I give a major side eye to anyone who tries to place equal blame on whatever backstage drama happened between Archie Panjabi and Julianna Margulies.  Margulies was a pet of Moonves and Tassler going back to when they were all working on ER.  She had a lot of power on The Good Wife and had the muscle of two of the highest people at the network behind her.  If Archie had been in any way an instigator or active participant of any friction with Margulies she would have been gone in a hot minute.  As it was Kalinda's  screen time and story line suffered tremendously before she finally left.

I know other networks do the development deals with new talent they want to keep, but CBS seems to almost treat it like the old Hollywood studio system.  You see their same actors over and over again.  This extends to the CW as you mentioned.  Peyton List comes to mind.  She's been a CW staple since the 90210 reboot.  She's been he lead two failed series there.  And now she's been cast in the new CBS series, Mission Control -- the one where they couldn't find a black actor to play the lead written for a black character.

Katie Cassidy is the poster child of this studio system at CW. She was on multiple CW shows until she got to be the main love interest on Arrow. She stunk up the screen for years and rumors were writers wanted to kill her off in Season 1 but the network intervened. She was finally killed off for one season and they've found a way to bring her untalented ass back again.

 

Edited to add: They've replaced Jimmy on Supergirl. Damn it. There goes my interest in streaming season 2. He and Kara were the only two characters I could handle.

Edited July 9, 2017 by pivot

[Irlandesa]

6 hours ago, DearEvette said:

So much this.  And this is why I give a major side eye to anyone who tries to place equal blame on whatever backstage drama happened between Archie Panjabi and Julianna Margulies.

Archie Panjabi is an example where it's more than just a development deal that gets these people cast.   Archie had one for 20th Century FOX upon leaving The Good Wife.  She landed on a series that didn't get picked up and it was two years before she did anything for them again. (Another pilot that didn't get picked up, I believe).  I don't know if that was a hold over from her development deal but it's clear she wasn't being thrown at everything.

Quote

Peyton List comes to mind.  She's been a CW staple since the 90210 reboot.  She's been he lead two failed series there.  And now she's been cast in the new CBS series, Mission Control -- the one where they couldn't find a black actor to play the lead written for a black character.

I think she's a little different in that I don't believe she has ever had a development deal.  She has also managed to be cast in shows that aired on all networks, including AMC, so I wonder if she auditions well. And other than Frequency, she has never been cast as a lead.  Shows are hard to launch. I don't begrudge actors failed series.  I do begrudge unknowns getting chance after chance for a lead role without proving they could be lead.  And the biggest issue I had with the H50 scenario is that, from what it sounds like, they had reached a point where all were carrying the series.  (Oh heck, DDK should have been one of the leads from the beginning.  Who said it had to be two white guys?)

Edited July 9, 2017 by Irlandesa

[Minneapple]

8 hours ago, DearEvette said:

I know other networks do the development deals with new talent they want to keep, but CBS seems to almost treat it like the old Hollywood studio system.  You see their same actors over and over again.  This extends to the CW as you mentioned.  Peyton List comes to mind.  She's been a CW staple since the 90210 reboot.  She's been he lead two failed series there.  And now she's been cast in the new CBS series, Mission Control -- the one where they couldn't find a black actor to play the lead written for a black character.

I'm fairly certain Chad Michael Murray had a development deal with the WB (thus the move up from a smaller role on Gilmore Girls to a bigger show/role on Dawson's, then One Tree HIll). Jared Padalecki may have had one as well (from Gilmore Girls to a starring role on Supernatural). Britt Robertson (if you want to talk about blandly pretty...) too. She went from nothing to starring in two WB shows (that failed). 

And I know I just listed a bunch of white actors, but let's give some credit to the CW. They have Jane the Virgin, Crazy Ex-Girlfriend, The Flash, iZombie -- all very diverse casts. 

As for Supergirl and removing James as a love interest of Kara's....I'm actually glad they did that. They had zip zilch zero chemistry, their romance dragged the show down and once the romance was dead, they gave him an actual storyline without her in it, which is important too. 

[jhlipton]

9 hours ago, DearEvette said:

Peyton List comes to mind.  She's been a CW staple since the 90210 reboot.  She's been he lead two failed series there.  And now she's been cast in the new CBS series, Mission Control -- the one where they couldn't find a black actor to play the lead written for a black character.

2 hours ago, Irlandesa said:

I think she's a little different in that I don't believe she has ever had a development deal.  She has also managed to be cast in shows that aired on all networks, including AMC, so I wonder if she auditions well. And other than Frequency, she has never been cast as a lead. 

I was thinking "well, hold on now...", but there are two Peyton Lists! (I thought there was a rule in Hollywood that two people couldn't join Equity under the same name...)  One Peyton List has been acting since she was 6, was the lead in 2 Disney shows: Jessie (4 years) and it's spin-off Bunk'd (2 years so far), and was in 2 of the Wimpy Kid movies, so she's not an unknown.  The other Peyton List, the one who will be on Mission Control, is the one who has been on, not just 2 failed CW shows, but FIVE failed shows from CBS to the WB: Big Shots, Moonlight, The Tomorrow People , Blood & Oil and Frequency.

[Raja]

27 minutes ago, jhlipton said:

 (I thought there was a rule in Hollywood that two people couldn't join Equity under the same name...) 

I think that rule has been suspended.  It came up on Major Crimes last season since the famous Vanessa Williams defrocked Miss America is no longer listed as "Vanessa L. Williams" and she is on the IMDB page for an episode when it was actually the Melrose Place and TV version of Soul Food Vanessa Williams in the role

[DearEvette]

3 hours ago, Irlandesa said:

I think she's a little different in that I don't believe she has ever had a development deal.  She has also managed to be cast in shows that aired on all networks, including AMC, so I wonder if she auditions well. And other than Frequency, she has never been cast as a lead.  Shows are hard to launch. I don't begrudge actors failed series.  I do begrudge unknowns getting chance after chance for a lead role without proving they could be lead.  And the biggest issue I had with the H50 scenario is that, from what it sounds like, they had reached a point where all were carrying the series.  (Oh heck, DDK should have been one of the leads from the beginning.  Who said it had to be two white guys?)

I believe she was considered the female lead in The Tomorrow People.  I remember the press for the show talking up the planned love triangle between her, Robbie Amell and Luke Mitchell. That was supposed to be the big draw because of course this was the CW and they wanted to create a Team So-and-So shipper situation.  But then Luke Mitchell who played the character John had a shit ton more chemistry with Madeleine Mantok who played Astrid.  Suddenly the shippers were talking up those two instead of the triangle which took everyone by surprise.  Astrid was just supposed to be the black BFF of Robbie Amell's character who had unrequited crush on him. 

Peyton popped in my head because it seems like everytime I heard her name come up as being cast in something it was a CW, CBS or Warner Bros show.  She may not have a development deal with them, but I think they do have a go-to list they like and are more likely to offer parts to a known quantity than an unknown one by and large.  Which is why I likened them to the old studio system.  And to be fair, while CBS feels like they do it more in the tv  than the other nets, movie directors are the same.  There is a reason why you see the same actors appear over and over again in films by the Coen Bros. or Quentin Tarantino or Martin Scorsese or David O. Russell etc.  And it is another reason why it is harder for POC to break in.

[LadyAmalthea]

On 7/9/2017 at 2:50 AM, Irlandesa said:

I looked at Priyanka's IMDb page.  And I looked at Alex's.  Perhaps some Australian here can better address his fame in his home country prior to moving to the US but her work prior to moving to the US is extensive. She started about two years before he did but her credits dwarf his. It looks like he did a few things here and there, appeared on the Shield for a few episodes and then did Moonlight.  So definitely like a draft but a draft where a white man was deemed to be valuable with far less work than the Indian woman.

Australian here - I'd never heard of AO'L before Hawaii 5-0, looking at his Australian filmography there was nothing special, the only thing I've seen is the mini-series Mary Bryant which was moderately successful but he was in a supporting role.  He's one of those actors who moved to the US before really establishing himself here so his resume at that time was nothing to write home about.

Even in Australia DDK and Grace Park were definitely more well known thanks to Lost and BSG.

Edited July 10, 2017 by LadyAmalthea

[galax-arena]

This really has nothing to do with the good discussion going on in this thread, but I just had to pop in and say.... damn, Grace Park is fucking gorgeous. I hope she lands on a show that I actually want to watch. 

[jhlipton]

17 hours ago, galax-arena said:

This really has nothing to do with the good discussion going on in this thread, but I just had to pop in and say.... damn, Grace Park is fucking gorgeous. I hope she lands on a show that I actually want to watch. 

You misspelled "Nicole Beharie".  LOL

[paulvdb]

I saw this link posted in the Arrow forum: Why Michelle Yeoh, Daniel Wu, and other Asian film actors are hitting small screens

A couple of quotes from the article:
 

Quote

 

American television series are now casting Asian actors in more in-depth and prime roles. This is in stark contrast to what co-production films have been doing over the years, which is to feature Asian actors in “guest appearances” or “token roles”. The aim is either to get a familiar face for the local market or to bypass the quota for foreign films shown in China.

“While co-production films cast Asian actors for the Chinese box office, television shows feature Asian actors as they reflect people’s lives today,” says Andrew Ooi, producer of Open Grave, Dream Home and Dragon Boys. “It all comes down to the audiences’ demands.”

 

Quote

“There’s more Asian representation on American TV now, but stories and roles for Asians are still limited,” Yeoh says. “I’d like to see more TV series that are about Asian stories.”

[galax-arena]

Quote

You misspelled "Nicole Beharie".

I mean... you can like both? But the conversation was revolving around an issue with a particular Asian actress*, so I was commenting on her lmao. It doesn't have to be a competition. 

* Plus Daniel Dae Kim, but he doesn't do anything for me (nothing personal against him, just not into guys). More for the rest of you, though!

Edited July 11, 2017 by galax-arena

[Dee]

Speaking of Hollywood perpetually failing Asian actors:  'Aladdin': Disney Struggles to Find Stars for Its Live-Action Movie

[possibilities]

Fusion has an article about the Aladdin situation, with a different tone:

http://fusion.kinja.com/it-cannot-be-this-difficult-to-cast-aladdin-you-disney-1796810308

It Cannot Be This Difficult to Cast Aladdin You Disney Punks

Edited July 12, 2017 by possibilities

[jhlipton]

10 hours ago, galax-arena said:

I mean... you can like both? But the conversation was revolving around an issue with a particular Asian actress*, so I was commenting on her lmao. It doesn't have to be a competition.

True, hence the "LOL" (although Park is a bit too "Twiggy" for my taste).

1 hour ago, possibilities said:

Fusion has an article about the Aladdin situation, with a different tone:

http://fusion.kinja.com/it-cannot-be-this-difficult-to-cast-aladdin-you-disney-1796810308

It Cannot Be This Difficult to Cast Aladdin You Disney Punks

the studio wants someone of Middle Eastern or Indian descent.

Fixed that for them.  It is 90% more likely that they will get someone from India vs someone from the Middle East (even without the "travel ban").  There are a lot of reasons Indian actors are preferred, and not all benign.

[memememe76]

I always thought Joy Luck Club as a tv series would work so well. The multigenerational cost, the flashbacks, the longer storytelling, the family and friendship dynamic, would be really compelling in long form. 

I think the CW should have remade Dynasty with an all Asian cast.

With China replacing Russia as the Big Bad in a lot of shows, I guess that helps with Asian casting. 

[Raja]

48 minutes ago, memememe76 said:

 

With China replacing Russia as the Big Bad in a lot of shows, I guess that helps with Asian casting. 

What TV shows are those?. it is a running joke in the movies most egregiously seen in the Red Dawn remake with the digital redo of the enemy uniforms that North Korea is the go to peril with other movies having a Chinese actor in a glorified cameo and sometimes a China edit to push forward their role.

[memememe76]

Admittedly, the only show that comes to mind is Madame Secretary. And I very recently watched Arrival.

[vibeology]

14 hours ago, possibilities said:

Fusion has an article about the Aladdin situation, with a different tone:

http://fusion.kinja.com/it-cannot-be-this-difficult-to-cast-aladdin-you-disney-1796810308

It Cannot Be This Difficult to Cast Aladdin You Disney Punks

No kidding. I'm really supposed to believe that Disney tried? They found Auli'i Cravalho for Moana (who literally is so perfect for the role you could cast her today in the live action version) and there are fewer Pacific Islanders in the world than people from the Middle East and India. For Moana they used youtube, open calls, had talent agents all over looking for possible actors etc. They know how to do this; they just aren't trying.

[DearEvette]

11 hours ago, memememe76 said:

I always thought Joy Luck Club as a tv series would work so well. The multigenerational cost, the flashbacks, the longer storytelling, the family and friendship dynamic, would be really compelling in long form.

I'd've watched the hell out of this.  I had such a girl crush on Tamlyn Tomita in the original movie!  I was thriled when she appeared in Eureka as Joe Morton's love interest. made an already nicely diverse cast that much better.

 

39 minutes ago, vibeology said:

No kidding. I'm really supposed to believe that Disney tried? They found Auli'i Cravalho for Moana (who literally is so perfect for the role you could cast her today in the live action version) and there are fewer Pacific Islanders in the world than people from the Middle East and India. For Moana they used youtube, open calls, had talent agents all over looking for possible actors etc. They know how to do this; they just aren't trying.

Given Bollywood, how can they not find a singing dancing Indian actor?  What?

[GHScorpiosRule]

4 hours ago, DearEvette said:

Given Bollywood, how can they not find a singing dancing Indian actor?  What?

Well, no. Like I posted in the movies Race and Ethnicity thread, NONE of today's Bollywood actors sing-all that singing you see onscreen? They're lip syncing to playback singers who actually record and sing the songs. And Indian (Bollywood*) actors aren't Middle Eastern, though I'm sure they could play Middle Eastern characters.

*The B stands for Bombay, which used to be the British India name for Mumbai, and since the film industry loooves Hollywood so much, replaced the H with B.

And so that no one will think I'm talking out of my ass, I'm East Indian, and know quite a bit about our own film and music industry.?

[galax-arena]

I just think "we can't find a singing dancing Indian actor" is a dumb excuse because it's not like this is a theater production, he's not gonna be singing live on stage, so who cares if the guy is the best singer? It was great that Disney found Auli'i Cravalho, but even if they hadn't, there wouldn't have been anything wrong with getting someone for the voice acting and someone else for the singing. That's what Mulan (my fave Disney movie) did - Lea Salonga sang, Ming Na Wen spoke - and I don't think the movie suffered for it. 

Hollywood cast Emma freakin' Watson for Beauty and the Beast and she's no great shakes as a singer. 

[meep.meep]

On 7/7/2017 at 7:39 PM, Irlandesa said:

 

The problem with the "they should just walk away" is that it will continue to disadvantage certain groups of people. Let's say James Roday (white) and Dule Hill (black) go in for the same part in two different timelines. .......

James Roday is Mexican American.  His real name is James Rodriguez.

I guess all this is why I only watch two CBS shows:  Amazing Race and Survivor.

[Irlandesa]

11 minutes ago, meep.meep said:

James Roday is Mexican American.  His real name is James Rodriguez.

However many seasons of Psych and I never knew. Or at least I don't think I knew.  I still think the example would hold up given his name change and the fact that, as he acknowledges, he is not perceived to be Mexican-American.

Edited July 12, 2017 by Irlandesa

[Dee]

1 hour ago, meep.meep said:

James Roday is Mexican American.  His real name is James Rodriguez.

White and Mexican aren't mutually exclusive terms.

[Irlandesa]

On 7/11/2017 at 1:24 PM, Dee said:

Speaking of Hollywood perpetually failing Asian actors:  'Aladdin': Disney Struggles to Find Stars for Its Live-Action Movie

 

On 7/11/2017 at 7:32 PM, possibilities said:

Fusion has an article about the Aladdin situation, with a different tone:

http://fusion.kinja.com/it-cannot-be-this-difficult-to-cast-aladdin-you-disney-1796810308

It Cannot Be This Difficult to Cast Aladdin You Disney Punks

I've thought about this since yesterday and I guess I am having a hard time understanding the criticism of Disney.  I do understand the fear of a bait and switch where they throw up their hands and cast someone who only looks like the right ethnicity but isn't.  Studios aren't beyond that. 

However, if it's just because casting is taking a long time, I don't think there's anything wrong with it. Sometime casting takes a long time as THR pointed out.  And they also reportedly brought in casting agents from around the world.  I can understand an exhaustive search, especially if they're going with someone relatively unknown, who can exude the playful charm of Aladdin, can sing, dance and act.  IMO, they can take as long as they want as long as they do it right. 

Now, they should go on Twitter because Twitter seems to have plenty of suggestions and will fill the self-created void of not enough Asian actors.

4 hours ago, galax-arena said:

It was great that Disney found Auli'i Cravalho, but even if they hadn't, there wouldn't have been anything wrong with getting someone for the voice acting and someone else for the singing. That's what Mulan (my fave Disney movie) did - Lea Salonga sang, Ming Na Wen spoke - and I don't think the movie suffered for it. 

I think the rules are a bit different with animation.  They had two different voices for Aladdin as well with Scott Weinger as speaking Aladdin and Brad Kane as singing Aladdin.  Linda Larkin did speaking Jasmine and Lea Salonga did the singing.  It was also very common in old school live action musicals.  But I do think people care.  It might be the best solution now but people will care.

[DearEvette]

12 hours ago, Irlandesa said:

However, if it's just because casting is taking a long time, I don't think there's anything wrong with it. Sometime casting takes a long time as THR pointed out.  And they also reportedly brought in casting agents from around the world.  I can understand an exhaustive search, especially if they're going with someone relatively unknown, who can exude the playful charm of Aladdin, can sing, dance and act.  IMO, they can take as long as they want as long as they do it right. 

I wonder if some of the criticism is because it feels like the casting process is taking so long because they are looking for the 'perfect' Aladdin.  And by that I mean there might be some evidence  that they are holding actors of color to a higher perfection standard than they would non-POC actors in casting.  This isn't without precedent.  Not to flog a dead horse but again with CBS and wanting an A-list actor of color to head their new show, who turned it down and  then them turning it around and offering it to a C-list white actor.

Right now this is a a huge area of discussion in the world of publishing where traditional publishers and agents will often reject submissions by writers of color are based on what they call 'quality' issues when white writers can churn out crap book after crap book and get big publishing contracts.  Coincidentally there is a big discussion on twitter regarding a recent YA book featuring an SE-Asian heroine who is being criticized on a nitpicky level than seems to be reserved for characters of color who are expected to be representatives of their entire race and can't be flawed in the way white characters are allowed to be.

[Ms Blue Jay]

I am extremely, extremely happy with the Emmy award nominations today.  The Leftovers fans are upset, but I don't watch that show, so I can't comment.  But for great POC actors like Sterling K. Brown, Tituss Burgess, Donald Glover, Aziz Ansari, Samira Wiley, and on and on and on, it's great.  So happy to see Atlanta and The Night Of and Unbreakable Kimmy Schmidt and Master of None so strongly acknowledged.  

[In2You]

I post this in the Hallmark thread but wanted to post it here as well

 

http://thepcprinciple.com/?p=10828

Michelle Vicary, who is the Executive Vice President, Programming & Network Publicity Crown Media Family Networks in reply to  a question about diversity

Michelle Vicary – "We understand that diversity is as important an issue and part of programming as certainly making great content and we are very focused on it. We are excited about several projects that we have coming up soon. We just had Alexa PenaVega in Destination Wedding for us, Al Roker’s mystery movie series starring Holly Robinson Peete gets its debut this October. I am beyond thrilled that we are in business with Judy Smith, the original Washington D.C. “fixer” that Shonda Rhimes based the ever-popular Olivia Pope and “Scandal” on, so we are looking at a lot of the talent that speaks to our audience. And you’re right, diversity is so important, and we look forward to making as many top programs from as many top people in the industry as we can."

 

Alexa PenaVega is half white, they make sure she looks as white as possible and Hallmark has her playing  characters that are not portrayed as hispanic at all yet call it diversity.  And they're doing  one diverse movie out what 50 a year?

[jhlipton]

From the Hawaii 5-0 In The Media thread:

On 7/12/2017 at 10:23 PM, BW Manilowe said:

While Hawaii Five-0 is being criticized for its apparent lack of diversity in casting, recurring cast member Claire van der Boom (Rachel Edwards)'s new Australian TV medical series, Pulse, seems to be getting praised for having a very diverse cast (See video linked/embedded in the Tweet) To clarify, the "ABC" network this show airs on is the Australian Broadcasting Company ABC, not the American Broadcasting Company ABC here in the States.

#WDBWA:  Where Da Black Women At?  Looks like every American show in that regard.

Edited July 14, 2017 by jhlipton
Insert picture

[Silver Raven]

Are they talking about Australian native people?  I'm not sure who else they could possibly mean on an Australian show.

 

“Atlanta”, “black-ish” and “Master of None” were nominated for Emmys for Best Comedy Show.

[LadyAmalthea]

There are black people in Australia other than Indigenous (the former being, for example, people of African or Pacific Islander migration or descent), unfortunately they are not particularly well represented in tv.

For an excellent show check out Cleverman, airing in the US on Sundance, creator/writer Ryan Griffen is Indigenous as are the majority of the cast.  This show was also produced for the ABC.

Edited July 14, 2017 by LadyAmalthea

[Raja]

7 hours ago, LadyAmalthea said:

There are black people in Australia other than Indigenous (the former being, for example, people of African or Pacific Islander migration or descent), unfortunately they are not particularly well represented in tv.

For an excellent show check out Cleverman, airing in the US on Sundance, creator/writer Ryan Griffen is Indigenous as are the majority of the cast.  This show was also produced for the ABC.

But of course we are talking about relative numbers when the policy to end white first immigration only goes into effect for those characters under 40. Yet the related gender issue says that they managed to find and cast a black man, Yet it is not the 1980s or earlier in America anymore when Rico Tubbs of Miami Vice broke the color line with Latinas., Since I have no ideal about Australian socio-racial politics at that or this time does a black woman need to be be cast specifically to be the love interest of the black man. Or do we also tag where are the eastern Asian versus southern Asian looking males?

 

Just saying the shows from  parts of the world other than Hollywood and their Canadian location filming partners will show  different patterns of racial diversity