The Crazed Spruce April 10, 2015 Share April 10, 2015 Fisk seeks revenge while Karen is haunted by recent events. Daredevil makes a startling discovery about Fisk's financing. Link to comment
Potanical Pardon April 11, 2015 Share April 11, 2015 (edited) No! Man...I was really hoping that getting fired was a way to get him a job at the Daily Bugle and that we could see the character crossover into some of the other properties. I'm guessing that Beardy Editor is going to become his spiritual successor next season. Edited April 11, 2015 by Tandaemonium Link to comment
Actionmage April 11, 2015 Share April 11, 2015 I am not believing what I saw. My hopeful theory: (the following is speculation; I have no hard anything) Ben isn't dead, but lying low. Matt saved him and they knew he'd have to not tell Doris to protect *her*. Hopefully, we'll get Ben back next season, if there is one. Link to comment
Lisin April 12, 2015 Share April 12, 2015 VDO is KILLING it. I actually felt bad for Kingpin in that "he was my friend" scene. 5 Link to comment
starri April 12, 2015 Share April 12, 2015 Is it weird that I find Gao almost as scary as Fisk? 11 Link to comment
marieYOTZ April 12, 2015 Share April 12, 2015 Leland: "Now might not be the time to beat your men to death" - Leland is so funny! 3 Link to comment
Izeinwinter April 12, 2015 Share April 12, 2015 And finally the coin drops and Murdoc realizes that his powerset makes all the torturing he has been doing utterly unnecessary when he can just follow people around and eavesdrop instead. When stick called him an idiot, he wasn't wrong. 7 Link to comment
thuganomics85 April 14, 2015 Share April 14, 2015 Well, shit. I guess after Wesley's death, one of the "good ones" had to go too. And, I just had a bad feeling about Ben throughout the entire episode. As soon as I saw Fisk in his chair, I knew it was over for him. Sad to see him go. If she ever finds out the full story, I have to imagine Karen will feel guilty as hell, because she was the one who dragged him into meeting Fisk's mom. And, yet, Ben still covered for her, because he's that good of a guy. Aha! It was Leland and Gao all along! The poison was meant for Vanessa this entire time, but they actually wanted her dead, so that backfired. Sounds like Gao is bailing (I mean, her heroin is done for), while Leland is going to continue doing his thing. That's good. He is way too entertaining. Foggy is now getting Marci/his ex involved in bringing down Fisk. After what happened to Ben, I would be very worried if I was Marci. Matt took down the heroin trade, but I'm sure he's going to pretend that he totally didn't get knocked off his feet by an old lady! I'll try and catch the finale tomorrow night. Can't believe it is almost over! Link to comment
90PercentGravity April 14, 2015 Share April 14, 2015 No! Who's writing this show, George RR Martin? 14 Link to comment
Chaos Theory April 15, 2015 Share April 15, 2015 (edited) At least Karen has watched every CSI episode out there. After you kill someone you 1. dump the gun. 2. get drunk. 3. take a damn shower (cry if you must). 4. See number 2. Note: Number 4 may cause nightmares that include the psychopath boss of the manservant you just kill you in your dreams. I like Venessa very very much. Now that Wesley is dead I think she may be my favorite character. Poor Ben. Although that was a very good scene between Ben and Fisk. On to the final chapter........ Edited April 15, 2015 by Chaos Theory 1 Link to comment
benteen April 17, 2015 Share April 17, 2015 (edited) Poor Ben. I had a feeling that's where it was going to lead to but was sorry to see it happen anyway. I thought he might have a little bit of story armor considering how long he has been around in the comics. Really good episode. Bob Gunton continues to be a blast as Leland...he better hope that Fisk doesn't find out. Had a feeling he was behind the poisoning. Edited April 17, 2015 by benteen Link to comment
Eegah April 17, 2015 Share April 17, 2015 So, Stephen S. DeKnight has now taken to Twitter and revealed that Ben's death was entirely due to studio politics. While the season was being made, they had no idea that Marvel and Sony were negotiating to share the Spider-Man rights, and were under the impression that they would never be able to use Ben again, so they might as well kill him off. It sucks, but at least it's an explanation beyond "We had to kill the black guy." 4 Link to comment
Anela April 17, 2015 Share April 17, 2015 Ben was great!! There was no reason to kill him off, except for shock value. Damn, he was my favourite - I like his wife, as well. I actually like Marci, too. 2 Link to comment
thuganomics85 April 18, 2015 Share April 18, 2015 Yeah, while it was well-acted and emotional, it basically was just another case of showing how dangerous Fisk is, and at this point in the show, that has already been established. I don't think they really needed to flat-out kill Ben, like they did. As cliched as it would have been, I wouldn't have even minded it if Fisk simply beat him to the point that it put Ben into coma, and then that way, they could have at least left the door open for him to return. Thankfully, I like pretty much all of the characters on this show, but I will miss what Vondie Curtis-Hall brought to the show, and his interactions with Deborah Ann Woll. I really enjoyed the Ben/Karen relationship, and am kind of bummed we won't see it again. 5 Link to comment
Racj82 April 18, 2015 Share April 18, 2015 So, Stephen S. DeKnight has now taken to Twitter and revealed that Ben's death was entirely due to studio politics. While the season was being made, they had no idea that Marvel and Sony were negotiating to share the Spider-Man rights, and were under the impression that they would never be able to use Ben again, so they might as well kill him off. It sucks, but at least it's an explanation beyond "We had to kill the black guy." See as people have been dying all season, I don't know why "killing the black guy" would be a response or assumption by anybody. Although, I hate when people leap to that in general. 1 4 Link to comment
Way Wes Jr April 21, 2015 Share April 21, 2015 Fisk seeks revenge while Karen is haunted by recent events. Daredevil makes a startling discovery about Fisk's financing. Okay, what did Matt learn about Fisk's financing? He already knows about Owlsley. Is it the heroin connection? 'Cause that seems like a stretch. [And really, was the heroin even that big a part?] Link to comment
Bec April 22, 2015 Share April 22, 2015 his powerset makes all the torturing he has been doing utterly unnecessary when he can just follow people around and eavesdrop instead. Ha, I know, right? I'm sick of watching him beat information out of people when he should be super good at sneaking around listening in. But then maybe he really does just enjoy beating up criminals. Last episode I thought Ben was getting killed off, and then just when I settled down from my nail-biting, comfortable that Ben is probably safe for the time being: Fisk: I'm here to kill you. Me: Of course you are. Good on Karen for trying to get Foggy and Matt to quit it with their whole "not speaking to each other" thing. They've got bigger problems right now. They need to work together, dammit! Matt breaking down and admitting he can't do this alone broke my heart into itty bitty pieces. Link to comment
Bec April 27, 2015 Share April 27, 2015 I forgot to add, when Matt was asking Karen if something's wrong, I wonder if he can smell the gun powder residue on her? (Or whatever it is that's left behind on people after they fire a gun.) I mean, if Matt's senses can tell him what someone had for lunch two days ago... why not? That and Karen probably smelled like alcohol and had really jittery heartbeats or something. 1 1 Link to comment
millennium April 29, 2015 Share April 29, 2015 "This world around us is preoccupied with celebrity weddings and videos of cats." Let that be the epitaph of this hopeless Smartphone generation. 3 Link to comment
Eneya April 29, 2015 Share April 29, 2015 "This world around us is preoccupied with celebrity weddings and videos of cats." Let that be the epitaph of this hopeless Smartphone generation. Damn kids... and their smartphones... GET OFF MY LAWN!!! :) 3 Link to comment
tennisgurl April 30, 2015 Share April 30, 2015 (edited) Poor Ben! I hope they find some way to bring him back. Its the MCU after all. I really like Vanessa. Fisk is evil, but I actually do like them as an evil power couple. Matt has had a tough time. Still dealing with his injuries, his BFF cant stand looking at him, and he got his ass kicked by an old woman. Ha, I know, right? I'm sick of watching him beat information out of people when he should be super good at sneaking around listening in. But then maybe he really does just enjoy beating up criminals. I think some of it is because Matt has issues. And maybe some of the time he does not have the time to eavesdrop, like when he was torturing the guy with Claire. When he`s just looking for information? I think Matt has anger issues... Edited April 30, 2015 by tennisgurl 3 Link to comment
Bec April 30, 2015 Share April 30, 2015 Madame Gao is surely not any ordinary old lady, though. She might not even be human. Totally agree Matt has anger issues. And oh yeah, I wouldn't say he has to limit himself to eavesdropping all of the time. It's just... he can stand to be sneaky more often and cut down on how many times he has to beat answers out of people. I'm pretty desensitized to TV violence (thanks, Walking Dead!), but it gets to be a bit repetitive when this is his "go to" method. 2 Link to comment
tennisgurl April 30, 2015 Share April 30, 2015 Totally agree with Madame Gao. I`m not sure what she is, but I don't think she`s a normal old lady. Some kind of magic? Alien? I hope that, as the show goes on, he stops using violence so much. maybe he`ll learn to work through some of his anger. Hopefully, its part of some kind of arc, not just "violence is cool". I am tentatively trusting of these writers, so I`m hoping there's a greater point. 1 Link to comment
GHScorpiosRule April 30, 2015 Share April 30, 2015 Considering who the people are that Matt is kicking the shit out of, not to mention, his getting pummeled as well, I have NO problem with how he comports himself or deals with them. Because clearly, "talking it out" isn't going to work. 2 Link to comment
Eneya May 1, 2015 Share May 1, 2015 Well... if she knows ALL languages, regular human goes out of the window as an option for her. And Stick is an old guy but also kicks ass for his age, so... she is in a big company. Honestly, I can't remember who she is in the comics? Link to comment
Kel Varnsen May 3, 2015 Share May 3, 2015 So, Stephen S. DeKnight has now taken to Twitter and revealed that Ben's death was entirely due to studio politics. While the season was being made, they had no idea that Marvel and Sony were negotiating to share the Spider-Man rights, and were under the impression that they would never be able to use Ben again, so they might as well kill him off. It sucks, but at least it's an explanation beyond "We had to kill the black guy." I don't use twitter so it there anything more to this story? Because it does not make a lot of sense. First off how do you make almost a whole season of a show without knowning if you have the rights to a character? Plus i thought the rights to Ben Urich were tied to Daredevil . He was played by Joey Pants in the Affleck movie which was put out by Fox. Plus Sony only owns the movie rights to the spidey characters, as far as i know. Marvel owns the tv rights, but has some sort of unwritten good faith agreement to only do animated shows. Link to comment
MisterGlass May 5, 2015 Share May 5, 2015 I thought Ben's arc worked well, and he was martyred for his cause. I will miss his steady, clever, dedicated viewpoint. Fisk sitting beside Wesley's body for a vigil and the kiss were very affecting. Fisk intermittently reminds me of Lenny in "Of Mice and Men," and I really shouldn't identify him with a character who is so much more innocent, but it keeps coming back to me. 1 Link to comment
that one guy May 6, 2015 Share May 6, 2015 The thing with this episode is that in murdering Ben, Fisk finally becomes a less than sympathetic villain. Previously he's only been killing his criminal collaborators - all of whom were much bigger scumbags than he is. The old lady in the apartment building was actually killed off by that Japanese demon ninja guy to lure Daredevil into a trap in revenge for what Stick did - nothing to do with Fisk at all. Previously I was kind of sympathetic. What's his evil plan, gentrify Hell's Kitchen? In the real world that's already happened. The tactics he's using to clear the tenants out of their building really happened - this is the story of how developers cleared out the Windermere building at 9th and 57th in the early 80s. My own neighborhood in Chicago also has too many gunshots etc. and I'd love for some more gentrification to kick in. Fisk really was more or less trying to help the city. Sad that he had to get in bed with heroin dealers from hell (possibly literally) to get it done, but you can't make an omelet etc. Plus I just kind of like the big awkward lug, so I was on Team Fisk more or less until he killed off Ben. Because freedom of the press is all sacred and stuff. Link to comment
ribboninthesky1 May 6, 2015 Share May 6, 2015 The thing with this episode is that in murdering Ben, Fisk finally becomes a less than sympathetic villain. Previously he's only been killing his criminal collaborators - all of whom were much bigger scumbags than he is. The old lady in the apartment building was actually killed off by that Japanese demon ninja guy to lure Daredevil into a trap in revenge for what Stick did - nothing to do with Fisk at all. Fisk was in on that as well, and admitted as much. Link to comment
mtlchick May 25, 2015 Share May 25, 2015 Plus i thought the rights to Ben Urich were tied to Daredevil . He was played by Joey Pants in the Affleck movie which was put out by Fox. The rights for Daredevil were reverted back to Marvel in 2012 (though only made public in 2013.) Sony will do anything they can to hold on to Spider-Man (like Fox will with X-Men) but know at this point having the Marvel Films backing at this point only benefits them in the long run. Which is why I think the producers were thinking "ok so we can kill him and that's it...oh wait/ There were plans for him? Oops." Link to comment
WendyCR72 May 25, 2015 Share May 25, 2015 The rights for Daredevil were reverted back to Marvel in 2012 (though only made public in 2013.) Sony will do anything they can to hold on to Spider-Man (like Fox will with X-Men) but know at this point having the Marvel Films backing at this point only benefits them in the long run. Which is why I think the producers were thinking "ok so we can kill him and that's it...oh wait/ There were plans for him? Oops." I realize the Netflix offering is a lot more dark and gritty (to its advantage, IMO, after the awful 2003 movie), but...surely if TPTB really wanted Ben for future plans his death could be retconned somehow? I mean, the series is based on a comic book. Mea culpas aside from those in charge, that's the fun of fantasy! (I know it could lead to campiness and soap opera, but I think this team has proven it has the chops to write potentially ridiculous scenarios with great attention to depth.) Link to comment
starri May 25, 2015 Share May 25, 2015 Ben has a nephew, Phil Urich in the comics. I can them taking Ben's murder and having it springboard into a crusade for him. Link to comment
Primetimer May 28, 2015 Share May 28, 2015 Ben Urich's been doin' this a looong time. Ask Daredevil's venerable print journalist how you can last as long as he has. Read the story Link to comment
Rai June 1, 2015 Share June 1, 2015 "This world around us is preoccupied with celebrity weddings and videos of cats." I found myself getting distracted from this scene with visions of Wilson Fisk secretly watching cats falling off things what they jumped up onto over and over again. But then he brought my attention back in a hurry with how he said...um...goodbye to Ben. Link to comment
sinkwriter May 28, 2019 Share May 28, 2019 Fucking Fisk. I liked Ben. And I'm pissed at Karen too. She pushed and pushed and pushed him about that damn story, even though 1) he told her time and again that he needed to confirm sources and get more info, and she needed to be patient and wait; and 2) he told her that Fisk could easily spin the story that he was some poor abused kid just defending his mother (and now people are trying to kill him and they hurt his lady friend and his "assistant" and whatever else he could say to make people feel for him and say, "He just did what he had to, to save his mom. I'd do the same thing"), distracting people from what Karen wanted them to see, that he's a liar. The story could so easily backfire on them and they'd end up with no "smoking gun" at all. This is why I find her character so frustrating. She just pushes and pushes and wants things without thinking anything through... damn the consequences. And other people get hurt in the crossfire. He told her he had more important priorities, and she lied to him and put him in that situation talking to Fisk's mom. That cost him his life. After killing Wesley, I thought she might ease up a bit, learn that she needed to be more fucking careful before taking action, but instead she turned around and pushed Ben even harder to write that damn story. For what? Matt might be foolish, but so is Karen. 1 2 Link to comment
Affogato July 4, 2021 Share July 4, 2021 On 4/12/2015 at 12:09 PM, Izeinwinter said: And finally the coin drops and Murdoc realizes that his powerset makes all the torturing he has been doing utterly unnecessary when he can just follow people around and eavesdrop instead. When stick called him an idiot, he wasn't wrong. To a hammer everything looks like a nail. Link to comment
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