S07.E08: The Cavi-Art Of War

[missy jo]

What got me this episode was [Carole's] TH after the board election, "I haven't won anything since my fifth grade basketball trophy!" Is that right?  What about your Emmys and your Peabody?  Stop playing flighty and dumb!!

 

 

I LOL'd at this, because I had posted on Carole's thread that her sense of humor leads her to make jokes, such as this one about the basketball trophy, that fall flat with some of the audience. But at the same time, if she'd mentioned her Emmy win, she'd get heat for "bragging" about it. My girl Carole just can't win!

 

motorcitymom On Twitter last night someone asked Carole why Heather would presume to talk to Beth about her custody issues, or something like that, and Carole responded (paraphrasing) with: "because she has talked about them a lot". I was happy when I read that, because it seemed like Carole was sticking up for Heather, who is getting hammered over on Twitter about this. Unhappily, I noticed that today it has been removed.

 

 

OK, *this* is juicy! Who would have asked Carole to take down the tweet and why?

Edited May 29, 2015 by missy jo

[WireWrap]

 

OK, *this* is juicy! Who would have asked Carole to take down the tweet and why?

Bethenny, Andy and or the producers would ask and, IMO, Carole would do it but she would tell Heather first. JMO

[breezy424]

The most likely to ask Carole to take down the tweet would be Bethenny.  Carole probably got a text.  Not a position I would like to be in if I were Carole.  She most likely gave Heather a heads up.  If this is what happened, I wonder how Carole's friendliness with Beth is affecting her relationship with Heather.

[ScoobieDoobs]

OK, so another Sonja townhouse sighting tonite -- anyone in?

 

This time, the lights on the first floor (where Heather refused to wait), which have always been on whenever I've passed by before, were off.  But the lights in the windows of her upper floors, 2nd & 3rd, were on.  The curtains on those floors were open, but the windows were all closed.  Btw, of all the townhouses on that block, Sonja's was the only one with lights on.  

 

Just as an aside, the weather for the past 2 days here in NYC has been like the middle of July -- hot, humid & absolutely disgusting.  So my theory is the really rich people who own the other townhouses on her block certainly hightailed it outta the city when the weather gets this disgusting.

 

But poor broke Sonja is stuck in the city, like the rest of us poor slobs, who actually might shop in (oh the horrors) Kmart -- of which there are 2 pretty good ones in Manhattan.  But they are downtown & since I'm picturing Sonja can't go anywhere she can't walk to then . . .

Edited May 29, 2015 by ScoobieDoobs

[ScoobieDoobs]

Just curious -- what did everyone think of the Sonja dress?  

 

The reason I said in an earlier post I thought it looks like something from 1992 is cuz my sister wore that same dress in about 10 different pastel shades -- as a bridesmaid, from the early to late '90's.  I mean, it was the exact, exact, exact same fucking dress, with those short sleeves & scoop neck.  And yeah, sis even had it in that same fucking shade of red, but she refused to wear it to any wedding cuz she thought it looked too slutty for a wedding.  

 

Actually, it didn't look slutty at all, just really sexy & she looked hot in it.  She's got pics of herself from 1992 to 1999 in that same Sonja red dress with at least 15 different really hot guys.  So that dress did get her a lot of action & she has some good memories of it.  She just was really puzzled to see her "sex dress" (no kidding -- that's what she called it) turn up 20 years later as an "original" Sonja dress.  I wonder who in Sonja's team  . . . er, claims to have designed this dress.

 

Satan Andy shoulda filmed more meetings with Sonja & her team.  I'm finding Sonja & her team way, way, way more entertaining than Bethenny's whining & wah, wah, wah-ing -- and her eye-rolling, her never-ending bullshit routine & her generally nasty attitude toward anyone who comes within 2 feet of her.  Altho I would like to hear what Bethenny's miserable-looking assistants think of her. 

 

On Twitter last night someone asked Carole why Heather would presume to talk to Beth about her custody issues, or something like that, and Carole responded (paraphrasing) with: "because she has talked about them a lot". I was happy when I read that, because it seemed like Carole was sticking up for Heather, who is getting hammered over on Twitter about this. Unhappily, I noticed that today it has been removed.

 

Why would Carole delete that?  Doesn't seem like her style at all.  Was she skeered of incurring Bethenny's wrath?  Well, that is a valid reason.  I'd be skeered of that too.  Or was she ordered to delete it by Satan Andy?  Could be, could be.  When it comes to Satan Andy, absolutely nothing is what it appears to be.  And he's certainly invested enough (million bucks worth) to protect Bethenny & continue to hold up her presence on the show as being nothing other than awesome.  Is anyone feeling Bethenny is awesome?  Anyone?

Edited May 29, 2015 by ScoobieDoobs

[maggiemae]

Perhaps Sonja's dress that she wore was from the early '90's and not her/their/company at all.

[ScoobieDoobs]

So ratings are in for this ep, and man, they ain't great -- 1.297 mil viewers.  I saw WWHL tonite & Satan Andy was all phony Joker smiles as usual & said he's off for 2 weeks.  He played it real cool to the camera, but the real deal ain't gonna be so pretty for him.  I bet the execs at Bravo & the higher-ups at NBC/Universal, which owns Bravo, are gonna be all over his slimy ass for these crap ratings every week.  Eight women in this cast & that million bucks for Bethenny & ending up with these ratings?  Explain that, Satan Andy.

 

http://allthingsrh.com/rhony-ratings/

[phoenix780]

I only have two thoughts lingering after finally getting to watch this episode (Verizon likes to mute Bravo sometimes, so I missed it before).  

 

When seeing Bethenney with her shrink...for some reason it reminded me of that old show on Comedy Central "Dr. Katz," the cartoon about the therapist.  I wish that were airing somewhere. 

 

And maybe it's editing, but it seems like as soon as Mario and Ramona are together again she loses her shit.  That's interesting.  I'm going to embellish in my head, pretend there's some kind of soap-opera-style gaslighting going on, he's doing something to make her look bad so he comes out looking better when they divorce.

[Celia Rubenstein]

So ratings are in for this ep, and man, they ain't great -- 1.297 mil viewers.  I saw WWHL tonite & Satan Andy was all phony Joker smiles as usual & said he's off for 2 weeks.  He played it real cool to the camera, but the real deal ain't gonna be so pretty for him.  I bet the execs at Bravo & the higher-ups at NBC/Universal, which owns Bravo, are gonna be all over his slimy ass for these crap ratings every week.  Eight women in this cast & that million bucks for Bethenny & ending up with these ratings?  Explain that, Satan Andy.

 

 

 

Uhhhhhhhhhh .... uhhhhh ...... uhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhh ......

 

Awww, Andy can't explain Scoobie.   Seems he has no clue what his audience wants to see any more and he is as confused as a goat on astroturf.

 

The only ho'wivess on this show I really care to see more of is Ramona and Dorinda.  Don't care about Heather, don't care about Carole, I'm over Luann and not interested in Bethenny, too uncomfortable watching Sonja, and Kristin is like watching paint dry. 

 

I wish they would shitcan the lot of 'em and make room on my TV screen so I can watch Ramona rebuild her life with Dorinda as her sidekick.  They would be a good team because they are actually some kind of friends, they like and respect each other despite Ramona being a nutjob a-hole much of the time.  But Dorinda would be able to handle her without it deteriorating into a war.  They have interesting lives and lifestyles and genuine issues.  When they are on the screen I want more, as opposed to the rest of the ladies, who I am just sort of enduring at this point.  

[WireWrap]

So ratings are in for this ep, and man, they ain't great -- 1.297 mil viewers.  I saw WWHL tonite & Satan Andy was all phony Joker smiles as usual & said he's off for 2 weeks.  He played it real cool to the camera, but the real deal ain't gonna be so pretty for him.  I bet the execs at Bravo & the higher-ups at NBC/Universal, which owns Bravo, are gonna be all over his slimy ass for these crap ratings every week.  Eight women in this cast & that million bucks for Bethenny & ending up with these ratings?  Explain that, Satan Andy.

 

http://allthingsrh.com/rhony-ratings/

Someone, some PTB, has to be throwing fits over paying Bethenny a million bucks to end up with ratings this bad. Almost 3 million tuned in to see episode 1 and then half never returned. She has been the main HW featured so far this season and I do believe the viewers are showing their displeasure of the "Bethenny Redemption Show". If this keeps up, I wonder if this will be Andy's final undoing at Bravo?

[quetzal]

Because this is what they do. Imo, Bravo ONLY hires women to be HWs who are either messed up or bitchy. I put Heather firmly in the latter category.  So Bravo edits her so that she's mostly likeable for her first couple seasons, and now it's time for them to show us why she was hired in the first place - her bitchiness.  This happens with all of them.

 

I can't think of one single housewife on any franchise who isn't messed up or bitchy. Bravo can polish the edges for a while but they know when the time is right to either table them or expose them because it's now time to polish some other turd.  (Bethenny, in this case)

 

The only one I can really think of who didn't seem like a bitch or very messy is the model agency owner in D.C.  But there ya go - she didn't have the qualities Bravo wants in their HWs, I can't even remember her name and the series was cancelled faster than you can say luxury lifestyle consultant. 

 

Dorinda is another that comes to mind as not being very messy or bitchy but we don't know her yet.  Just as Bravo wants.  She's liked.  For now.  I'll bet she falls firmly into the bitchy category before then end of her second season.

 

As for the DC HW, that was Lynda who had her "bitchy" moments but they were under the radar because they tended to be directed at the Salahis, and after Tareq tossed a glass of wine on her while they were promoting Season 1, I understand. I so wish there was a Season 2. Had there been one I could see Lynda getting an unfavorable edit. She and Lea from Miami always reminded me of each other: Southern ladies, businesswomen in their 50s with "brutal" honesty and few fucks to give.

 

I see Dorinda falling into the bitchy category too.

 

I've been half watching this season. Kristen isn't interesting, even as an actual housewife. Sonja's brand of delusion is no longer funny to me and the rest? Blah. Bravo should've put more energy into promoting Melbourne Season 2 which was better from a soapy mindless television standpoint IMO.

[bravofan27]

Interesting that after chowing down on those pups Beth suddenly had to leave.

 

I know, I thought this same thing. There is a whole camp that believe Bethenny is bulimic, and I never really saw signs until she was furiously eating before heading out the door. Very bulimic-ish. The fact that Bethenny wasn't staying long and that she ate more than I've ever seen her eat ever, makes me think she was wanting to leave quickly to go puke somewhere and have time to do so before getting the kid. 

 

Though it's totally up to her, I think Bethenny should come clean about her eating disorder. I think she would feel a lot better and her emotions wouldn't be so all over the place if she had healthy eating habits, puking completely throws your whole body off. That and she is the textbook neurotic Jewish woman, she really needs to take better care of herself. 

 

Though I don't know if she really is bulimic, I'm starting to think she hasn't solved that problem yet and that's really the reason she is an emotional wreck. 

Edited May 29, 2015 by bravofan27

[BlackMamba]

Did Heather have a nose job? In the flashback with Ramona, her nose looks massive, compared to now.

Maybe it's just me, but it looks really different. Not that there's anything wrong with that....(Seinfeld)

 

That would be a good question for the reunion.

[ciaoformeow]

  Here's something I'd like to talk more about --  Bethannys man not filming! 

 

I'm actually really happy he's not on the show for a few reasons.  I wonder if it has to do with Beth not wanting to flaunt a new relationship on Tv (might damage her image if her goal is to be likeable, considering she's still going through the divorce). Maybe she didn't want to hurt Jason, but really I think the real reason is... 

 

she doesn't want another man trying to come up on her fame. And if that's the reason, BRAVO!!

[KnoxForPres]

That sentence right there - was all I needed to skip this one and continue watching Damages on Netflix.

Haven't we had enough of Bethenny and her therapist? It was a big chunk of her own show, now we get more? I'm just not interested in Bethenny's rehashing of her childhood, and the countless other issues she seems to have.

You made the right choice! And to stay on topic, Sonja reminds me of Glenn Close and Stresiand if they had a love child. F-Ing loved Damages. Edited May 29, 2015 by KnoxForPres

[Mozelle]

Re: the question about a possible nose job to Heather. I doubt it.* However, makeup can help women achieve the look of a different nose with contouring and highlighting and whatnot. That's, like, the thing nowadays. Some makeup artists know which colors to choose that will work well with camera lights playing with light and shadows (i.e., making a nose appear smaller; giving the appearance of cheekbones; giving the appearance of a stronger jawline).

 

17 Incredible Photos That Show The Power Of Makeup

 

*That said, I don't really notice anything different about Heather's nose, either.

Edited May 29, 2015 by Mozelle

[BettyPoz]

I must say that the relationships we saw in this episode seemed very forced! I feel like the girls are trying out some new friendships this season, and I don’t know that they are going to work out. Just look at Ramona and Luann! They tried to establish a friendship this year, and it completely blew up tonight (and at the fabulous Pettrosian of all places). But I must say that Ramona and Dorinda’s new friendship does seem to be genuine.

 

The above is from Sonja's blog this week.  I thought Ramona and Dorinda were old friends?

 

Also noticed on the side bar - not one, but THREE articles (2 blogs and 1 spoiler alert) have the picture of Bethenny and Carole sitting at CB2.  I don't recall anyone being jammed down our throats so heavily before. 

 

have yet to see one of the ladies tweet a compliment about my collection or post a photo from my fashion show at Fashion Week 2015

 

^^ is also from Sonja's blog.  Is there any proof that she had a fashion show at Fashion Week??

[Mozelle]

I feel like the question to ask is "Which Fashion Week?". Sonja leaves out just enough details to make people assume she may be talking about New York Fashion Week.

[zoeysmom]

Someone, some PTB, has to be throwing fits over paying Bethenny a million bucks to end up with ratings this bad. Almost 3 million tuned in to see episode 1 and then half never returned. She has been the main HW featured so far this season and I do believe the viewers are showing their displeasure of the "Bethenny Redemption Show". If this keeps up, I wonder if this will be Andy's final undoing at Bravo?

The ratings were high because they took RHOBH spot for Part 2 of a really explosive Reunion.  What was embarrassing is how many people dropped off from the BH Reunion to the premiere of RHONY.  Way to screw up BH's ratings. 

 

Andy only has as much power as Frances Berwick gives him.  Andy has taken them far but now he seems to have reached that stage where he has stopped listening to the viewers and is pushing those people he finds entertaining.  There is just no way a Tamra Barney should still be on the air or Brandi Glanville or Kristen Taekman (Kristen because she is a bore).  So Andy wrangling all these "special times" for WWHL and these ridiculous turn the table-a HW interviews Andy does nothing more than pump up the ratings for his show.  Tuesday night's ratings were probably up because of the hype surrounding the Bethenny/Andy interview.

 

A agree with Dorinda in her blog uncomfortable watching Bethenny's staged therapy scenes.  Oh let's watch the co-authors discuss things to put Bethnny in a more positive light.  The very serious Dr. Amador, "you married and had a baby with someone you loved very much."  So which was it she got married against her better judgment or she was very much in love?   

[Roxy]

Someone on the first page or so said that they thought Bethenny kind of implied on WWHL that she was not going to return next season. It wasn't what she said so much as how she said it. I agree completely. I got the same feeling.

 

I think this "return" has been a failure for the show and for her. She mentioned the rise of negative responses she's gotten lately and even admitting that shows it's an area of concern. I think she's coming off as harsh and self indulgent and mean, in my opinion, and it's not a good look for her precious "brand". She's always been like this to me but it's much worse now. She's arrogant and pompous and unappealing. She is going through something but, as someone else said a few pages back, she needs to do that off television and deal with her problems. I don't want to see them as I don't care, don't like her, and wish her the best...off my show.

 

I think the ratings suck because it's boring or sad most of the time. Golden Girl Beth is sucking the life out of it with the focus on her and her breakdown. Boo hoo- I'm rich and have a great kid and my mean old meanie of an ex is ruining my life and I was abused and I'm going to be nasty and snarky and you'll love it. Yuck. This show used to be entertaining. Now, it's the Bethenny Show and that pisses me off. I didn't watch the spin offs or her talk show because, well, she sucks. I don't think I can watch this one either. It's not her program, remember, Show?

 

Sorry. Had to vent. I like the rest but cannot stomach this broad. And it's starting to make me dislike them all. Carole is a moron now. Why? Heather being shown in a bad light, Luann getting testy, Ramona crazy- nothing new, Kristin nowhere. Sonja over the edge, and Dorinda is nice but that's it. 

 

How about some positivity here? Let Bethenny have her cash and her kid and her problems in private for once. She is NOT good TV. Get over it, Andy, your gal pal sucks!!! Go have drinks with her on your own time. You're paid to entertain me!!!

 

Whew- that feels better. JMO, of course.

Edited May 29, 2015 by Roxy

[charmed1]

Heather got very personal in her very first appearance on the show. She was telling Ramona and Sonja about how upset she was about the recent death of her father and Ramona pretty much told her she was being a Debbie Downer.

[ElsieH]

Someone correct me if I'm wrong, but isn't Beth the only HW who has never had a really bad season/edit? It seems to me like the ratings might be better if they didn't try so hard to present her in the best possible light. I think it's backfiring on them, and I bet she knows it too. So she might not return for fear they would do that in hopes of ratings boost.Of course, I guess it is also possible that she is savvy enough not to give them anything they can use, but given her personality it seems like that would take a lot of effort on her part. Don't get me wrong, I kind of like her, but I am really tired of the constant shilling and weepy woe is me crap. She was much better back in the old days where she was so funny and spot on with her snarky comments. This season it feels like she is trying too hard.

[ryebread]

I think Heather likes having as many pieces of a puzzle in front of her as she can. In her blog this week, she talks about wanting to "bring clarity" to the custody situation.

 

LOL That's rich. Heather always needing to get to the bottom of, and always be on top of everybody else's business - is an 'interesting' personality trait. 

 

She's become successful being on top of her own business. She should just stay there.

[mwell345]

 

Eight women in this cast & that million bucks for Bethenny & ending up with these ratings?  Explain that, Satan Andy.

 

And I'm guessing they could have gotten Bethenny for less than that.  Think about it - failed marriage equals no more spinoff, add to that failed talk show and that TV offers are not sailing into her lap.  And this is a woman who wants to keep her name and face out there.  RHONY is pretty much all she has left. 

[ryebread]

Someone correct me if I'm wrong, but isn't Beth the only HW who has never had a really bad season/edit?

 

She's either always gotten bad edits OR the mean and manipulative Bethenny that I believe to be her true self - is really her true self.

 

Since season one, I've thought she was mean and self centered.  So my question would be, has she ever had a good edit?  LOL  Actually, I'd say probably in her spin offs because there were times I found myself rooting for her and Jason.  For me to find anything I liked about her, I have to assume it was due to good editing. But during regular RHONY season, never.

[sasha206]

Someone on the first page or so said that they thought Bethenny kind of implied on WWHL that she was not going to return next season. It wasn't what she said so much as how she said it. I agree completely. I got the same feeling.

 

I think this "return" has been a failure for the show and for her. She mentioned the rise of negative responses she's gotten lately and even admitting that shows it's an area of concern. I think she's coming off as harsh and self indulgent and mean, in my opinion, and it's not a good look for her precious "brand". She's always been like this to me but it's much worse now. She's arrogant and pompous and unappealing. She is going through something but, as someone else said a few pages back, she needs to do that off television and deal with her problems. I don't want to see them as I don't care, don't like her, and wish her the best...off my show.

 

I think the ratings suck because it's boring or sad most of the time. Golden Girl Beth is sucking the life out of it with the focus on her and her breakdown. Boo hoo- I'm rich and have a great kid and my mean old meanie of an ex is ruining my life and I was abused and I'm going to be nasty and snarky and you'll love it. Yuck. This show used to be entertaining. Now, it's the Bethenny Show and that pisses me off. I didn't watch the spin offs or her talk show because, well, she sucks. I don't think I can watch this one either. It's not her program, remember, Show?

 

Sorry. Had to vent. I like the rest but cannot stomach this broad. And it's starting to make me dislike them all. Carole is a moron now. Why? Heather being shown in a bad light, Luann getting testy, Ramona crazy- nothing new, Kristin nowhere. Sonja over the edge, and Dorinda is nice but that's it. 

 

How about some positivity here? Let Bethenny have her cash and her kid and her problems in private for once. She is NOT good TV. Get over it, Andy, your gal pal sucks!!! Go have drinks with her on your own time. You're paid to entertain me!!!

 

Whew- that feels better. JMO, of course.

 

I completely agree regarding Bethenny.

 

I didn't actually watch RHONY the seasons when she was on until earlier this year when I bought those series on Amazon.   I loved her.  She was snarky, but fun. She shared bits of her rotten childhood then but she was interesting and it was neat watching her get her brand off the ground.  The dynamic between Jill and Bethenny, not to mention Scary Island, felt real and was entertaining to watch.  

 

I get the feeling that she's decided everyone is in love with her personality and struggle so she's ramped up the snark and the woe-is-me to levels that make her really unappealing.  Not to mention, she's becoming much more crass.  I mean, "braid pussy hair"?  

 

I've never actually bought Skinny Girl but she isn't endearing me to her brand.   

[kassa]

I don’t know how much BRAVO has to do with Real Housewives of Melbourne, other than franchising the name/formula, but the drama on that show is far more personality-based.  They still bicker and are awful with each other, but it’s (mostly) petty, superficial garbage, and in the meantime they bring the clothes and parties and lifestyle that NY and Beverly Hills should be providing more than they do. 

 

Housewives drama is fun when their flaws are superficial.  The housewife who can’t pronounce the name of her own product.  The housewife who has a fashion show with no fashion.  The housewife who excuses her behavior by referencing her struggle with a cancer diagnosis, which turns out to have been a wait for results in the Chili’s parking lot.  Housewives who drive Bentleys but live in unfurnished rentals. The housewife who flirts outrageously on camera with somebody, then denies it happened (actually, housewives who say/do anything on camera and then deny it happened)

 

But if you pair the venal personality quirks with addiction/mental illness/criminal activity, things get really sordid, really fast.  The quirks are no longer amusing “omg, that’s EXACTLY like the lady in accounting at work!” snarkable opportunities.

I want to slag on people for being shallow and materialistic and bitchy, not spiraling down to possible fatal outcomes.

[imjagain]

And I'm guessing they could have gotten Bethenny for less than that. Think about it - failed marriage equals no more spinoff, add to that failed talk show and that TV offers are not sailing into her lap. And this is a woman who wants to keep her name and face out there. RHONY is pretty much all she has left.

I have been thinking the same thing, considering Beth was the one calling Andy, wanting to come back to Bravo with her own show. They decided not to do that. She was willing to go back to RHoNY, that to me says she wanted back on TV something awful. You would think they could have paid her less.

I hope she is gone next season, if Bravo gives her spin off, I don't care. I won't watch. I just hate that this season is pretty much the Beth show.

Edited May 29, 2015 by imjagain

[ElsieH]

She's either always gotten bad edits OR the mean and manipulative Bethenny that I believe to be her true self - is really her true self.

 

Since season one, I've thought she was mean and self centered.  So my question would be, has she ever had a good edit?  LOL  Actually, I'd say probably in her spin offs because there were times I found myself rooting for her and Jason.  For me to find anything I liked about her, I have to assume it was due to good editing. But during regular RHONY season, never.

 

Well, it's true, she is rather polarizing. But I thought the good edits were because of how she was portrayed as this poor, single, working-girl underdog which made a lot of folks root for her. And then of course, the fight with Jill, although Jill was so horrible by then I guess people would have sided with whoever she was feuding with at the time. Even when she wrangled with Luann, it seemed the show was trying to show the Countess in a bad light so people would side with Beth(enny). I know it didn't work for a lot of people, but for a lot of others it did. I'm just kind of on the fence with her. I think she can be funny, and she can definitely be bitchy. I would rather be entertained by her snarkiness than by her personal life drama I guess.

[archer1267]

I watched the Brooklyn Fashion Weekend episode yesterday and it was great…not just for Ramona's walk down the runway, but because I loved that a group of HWs came together to plan an actual event, not just have another lunch at another restaurant. I loved them auditioning designers and seeing the WTF reactions to some of the clothes. Kelly and Bethenny tried to resolve their bickering, Ramona lectured a designer on why using poly-satin was bad, and Alex acted as if she was dealing with children having a tantrum - it was all very organic, with the moments true to each woman's personality. 

 

I miss seeing that stuff because now that each of the franchises is so trip-driven, there's very little about actual New York in the show. 

[JAYJAY1979]

What I'm.finding even.more interesting are the web exclusives on hulu for.the show....one of which were talking heads of Sonja interns. It reminded of the old format where the interviews at the time of filming and.not done later.

Plus, the lack of interviews by anyone that isn't a housewife leaves me feeling as if the narrative is not complete. In the old days, if dorindas narrative with her, Hannah, and john were done....we would hear not only from Dorinda...bit also from Hannah and john... it gives all sides of the narrative.

[ScoobieDoobs]

is also from Sonja's blog.  Is there any proof that she had a fashion show at Fashion Week??

 

Well, she did.  It was widely reported back in February when Fashion Week was going on here in NYC.  Made me go WTF.  Take a look at the oddly fitting jumpsuit, which Sonja's boobies are practically falling out of.  I guess she wants to look like that, but do most women wanna leave the house that way?  It's overall a very unimpressive, meh "collection".  And everything seems to be in that red color, which is a kinda OK color, but would you wanna wear that color every day?

 

http://www.dailymail.co.uk/tvshowbiz/article-2958027/Real-Housewife-Sonja-Morgan-models-plunging-red-jumpsuit-debuts-new-fashion-line-NYFW.html

 

http://nypost.com/2015/02/18/bethenny-frankel-ramona-singer-duke-it-out-at-sonja-morgans-fashion-show/

[ScoobieDoobs]

I miss seeing that stuff because now that each of the franchises is so trip-driven, there's very little about actual New York in the show.

 

Not really, they seemed to have filmed in a lot of restaurants & stores around the city   They should have done more outdoor scenes, but the weather probably sucked when they were filming.  It's the big disadvantage of NYC.  The weather here usually sucks.  Best time to film is in the short Spring.

 

Well, it's true, she is rather polarizing.

 

Both Bethenny & Satan Andy described her that way on WWHL.  What does this mean?  I'm lost.  They both were shaking their heads in agreement & seemed happy & satisfied to come up with this way of describing her, but I didn't understand it at all.

 

she doesn't want another man trying to come up on her fame.

 

I think I saw somewhere Bethenny said he didn't wanna be on the show.  Could be.  Eh,  I think she didn't want him on the show, to take the "poor widdle rich me" spotlight off her.  I don't think this rough-looking dude would have any patience for all the whining & crying we're seeing on the show.  He would not have fit in with the routine/storyline Bethenny is shoving at us.

[izabella]

Both Bethenny & Satan Andy described her that way on WWHL.  What does this mean?  I'm lost.  They both were shaking their heads in agreement & seemed happy & satisfied to come up with this way of describing her, but I didn't understand it at all.

 

That they are polarizing means the audience reaction tends to be divided into polar opposites, such as love her or hate her.

[OhGromit]

Someone correct me if I'm wrong, but isn't Beth the only HW who has never had a really bad season/edit? It seems to me like the ratings might be better if they didn't try so hard to present her in the best possible light. I think it's backfiring on them, and I bet she knows it too. So she might not return for fear they would do that in hopes of ratings boost.Of course, I guess it is also possible that she is savvy enough not to give them anything they can use, but given her personality it seems like that would take a lot of effort on her part. Don't get me wrong, I kind of like her, but I am really tired of the constant shilling and weepy woe is me crap. She was much better back in the old days where she was so funny and spot on with her snarky comments. This season it feels like she is trying too hard.

 

 

Agree, plus-- this season it feels like Bravo is trying WAY too hard to sway public opinion in Bethenny's favor.  It takes away from the "reality" of the reality show, however little reality is left, anyhow.  And Bravo is highlighting her too much-- it's almost a combo of RHONY and the old Bethenny Ever After.  Andy is a Bethenny devotee, and it shows.

[ElsieH]

That they are polarizing means the audience reaction tends to be divided into polar opposites, such as love her or hate her.

 

Yes that is how I see her, although in my own case, I like her sometimes, don't  like her others, and the rest of the time couldn't care less. So I guess maybe not polarizing for me LOL.

[Mozelle]

To my mind, Bethenny isn't all that different in "trying to get to the bottom of" something as it concerns the other women on the show. It was very clear from the the first episode of the season that Bethenny hadn't socialized with LuAnn, Ramona, and Sonja in quite a long time. However, Bethenny felt that she needed to figure out whatever was going on with Sonja, complete with pulling her aside in Atlantic City to have some sort of moment that seemed set up to have Sonja open up. Yet, it really was about Bethenny getting her narrative out there once again. 

 

The difference, though, is that we haven't seen any THs from Sonja being snarky about Bethenny's sudden, camera-based friendship as it relates to Sonja's issues. Whoever pointed out that the editors have provided so many TH opportunities from Bethenny as it relates to interactions with Heather, was very astute. So, we get all of Bethenny's annoyance but rarely see any annoyance from the other women about Bethenny in their own THs. It shifts the narrative.

[OhGromit]

What I'm.finding even.more interesting are the web exclusives on hulu for.the show....one of which were talking heads of Sonja interns. It reminded of the old format where the interviews at the time of filming and.not done later.

Plus, the lack of interviews by anyone that isn't a housewife leaves me feeling as if the narrative is not complete. In the old days, if dorindas narrative with her, Hannah, and john were done....we would hear not only from Dorinda...bit also from Hannah and john... it gives all sides of the narrative.

 

That's true.  Example-- they used to do THs with Rosie (Luann's nanny), her daughter, Jill's daughter, Avery, and so on.  They also used to showcase "life in NY" more.  Fashion Week, charities, restaurants, of course the Hamptons.  You saw more of their NY setting.

On another note, since it's from the same episode as those THs, I was just rewatching a season 1 episode, the one where Bethenny awkwardly tries to get Jason #1 to agree she can move in with him.  They'd only been going out for 6 months.  It was sad.  In my view, just based on the way he looked at her and his disregard for her discomfort, Jason #1 was not in love with her.  

Edited May 29, 2015 by OhGromit

[ottergirl]

Agree, plus-- this season it feels like Bravo is trying WAY too hard to sway public opinion in Bethenny's favor.  It takes away from the "reality" of the reality show, however little reality is left, anyhow.  And Bravo is highlighting her too much-- it's almost a combo of RHONY and the old Bethenny Ever After.  Andy is a Bethenny devotee, and it shows.

 

One little thing I noticed in the Bethenny/Andy WWHL interview.   They were discussing how he pitched her to come back to the show, and she said at the end, basically, I'm happy I did it, it went well, and then, very specifically:  "You and I are good.  We're clean."

 

If I'm over-analyzing (which duh, I am), what this says to me is "you promised that I would look good and you would take care of me if I came back, and you fulfilled the promise."  

 

I just thought it was an interesting turn of phrase, because they were talking about their personal relationship vs. the promises made on the show, and Bethenny thanked him for living up to whatever he promised her - "You and I are good. We're clean."  

 

Just one more little piece in the "things Bethenny was promised to return to RHONY" puzzle.

 

Which I guess you could argue was all well and good if it were working.  Which, based on ratings, it isn't.  Ratings now are if anything lower than they were at the end of last season.  

 

I think there were two big mistakes with the franchise.

 

Mistake 1:  They did the Season 5 reboot wrong.  Bringing in half new ladies (Heather, Carole, Aviva) and half old guard (Sonja, Ramona, Luann), was like creating two unrelated parallel casts with no real intersection.   They either should have brought in new ladies like Dorinda (connected to the old guard) or done a complete re-launch with a whole new cast (Heather, Carole, etc.) and called it Real Housewives of Manhattan.  I do agree a reboot was needed - Season 4 was pure poison and the show had stalled out.  But the weird half-and-half mixture just didn't work.  

 

Mistake 2:  They took off WAY too long between Seasons 5 and 6.  By the end of Season 5, in my opinion, the show was hitting its stride again, as the new cast and the old cast finally started to form relationships (good and bad).  And ratings, I believe, were going up week over week.  But then - poof.  It was gone for AGES.  And when it finally came back, it just felt stale.

 

Now add in this season, and it's a whole new weird thing.  The relationships we had invested in (Carole/Heather, Ramona/Sonja, Luann's shifting allegiance between old guard and new) have mostly been shoved aside, in favor of Queen Bethenny and her court.  So once again, there's no continuity season to season.  No continuing narrative to invest in.

 

Oh well.  Water under the bridge.  I can't imagine not having a RHONY, but at this point, not sure how they will fix it.  And not going to speculate further in this episode thread, lest I wander further off topic...

Edited May 29, 2015 by ottergirl

[archer1267]

The relationships we had invested in (Carole/Heather, Ramona/Sonja, Luann's shifting allegiance between old guard and new) have mostly been shoved aside, in favor of Queen Bethenny and her court.

 

 

Especially if you buy into the theory that the women are interacting with Bethenny to insure screen time. Me, I'm looking forward to a Bethenny-free Berkshires trip…I'm curious to see how the women mix with each other when she's not around.

[ScoobieDoobs]

That they are polarizing means the audience reaction tends to be divided into polar opposites, such as love her or hate her.

 

Oh.  OK.  Except I'm not seeing that.  Isn't the problem most don't care so much about Bethenny one way or another?  I'm not really seeing much in the way of love or hate for her on this board -- or anywhere else.  So that was lovely they (Satan Andy & B) were both so self-satisfied in describing Bethenny as polarizing -- except she isn't particularly anymore, is she?

[Trooper York]

I think Bethenny is bi-polarizing,

[hoodooznoodooz]

Just curious -- what did everyone think of the Sonja dress?  

 

The reason I said in an earlier post I thought it looks like something from 1992 is cuz my sister wore that same dress in about 10 different pastel shades -- as a bridesmaid, from the early to late '90's.  I mean, it was the exact, exact, exact same fucking dress, with those short sleeves & scoop neck.  And yeah, sis even had it in that same fucking shade of red, but she refused to wear it to any wedding cuz she thought it looked too slutty for a wedding.  

 

Actually, it didn't look slutty at all, just really sexy & she looked hot in it.  She's got pics of herself from 1992 to 1999 in that same Sonja red dress with at least 15 different really hot guys.  So that dress did get her a lot of action & she has some good memories of it.  She just was really puzzled to see her "sex dress" (no kidding -- that's what she called it) turn up 20 years later as an "original" Sonja dress.  I wonder who in Sonja's team  . . . er, claims to have designed this dress.

 

Satan Andy shoulda filmed more meetings with Sonja & her team.  I'm finding Sonja & her team way, way, way more entertaining than Bethenny's whining & wah, wah, wah-ing -- and her eye-rolling, her never-ending bullshit routine & her generally nasty attitude toward anyone who comes within 2 feet of her.  Altho I would like to hear what Bethenny's miserable-looking assistants think of her. 

 

 

Why would Carole delete that?  Doesn't seem like her style at all.  Was she skeered of incurring Bethenny's wrath?  Well, that is a valid reason.  I'd be skeered of that too.  Or was she ordered to delete it by Satan Andy?  Could be, could be.  When it comes to Satan Andy, absolutely nothing is what it appears to be.  And he's certainly invested enough (million bucks worth) to protect Bethenny & continue to hold up her presence on the show as being nothing other than awesome.  Is anyone feeling Bethenny is awesome?  Anyone?

hahaha! Thanks, ScoobieDoobs, for making me laugh about your sister and the dress.

What bugged me was the shoulder pads. If the "sleeves" are that tiny, they should eliminate the shoulder pads.

Beth was snarky and kind of playful the first season. Now she's snarky and nasty.

[motorcitymom65]

Especially if you buy into the theory that the women are interacting with Bethenny to insure screen time. Me, I'm looking forward to a Bethenny-free Berkshires trip…I'm curious to see how the women mix with each other when she's not around.

Except that Beth is going to pull a Zarin and show up.

[WireWrap]

  Here's something I'd like to talk more about --  Bethannys man not filming! 

 

I'm actually really happy he's not on the show for a few reasons.  I wonder if it has to do with Beth not wanting to flaunt a new relationship on Tv (might damage her image if her goal is to be likeable, considering she's still going through the divorce). Maybe she didn't want to hurt Jason, but really I think the real reason is... 

 

she doesn't want another man trying to come up on her fame. And if that's the reason, BRAVO!!

I think Bethenny/BF did not want his college rape allegation brought up anymore than it already was in the tabloids. That would have further damaged her reputation with viewers IMO.

[ryebread]

Except that Beth is going to pull a Zarin and show up.

 

 

I'm looking forward to the trips - the Berks AND the Turks.

[misschung]

Can't believe the Vicki-tini made its way to the East Coast.  Other than that? This episode was boring to me.. 

[essexjan]

I don't know why I watch this show, I really don't, except that I can't not watch it.

 

Luann is SO fake, and such a bitch. Ramona really showed the craziness in this episode - WTF happened at Petrossian? Good grief! I'm glad that was only a fake TV birthday party and not Dorinda's real one. I think Stapler Girl should be Sonja's new intern, they're a match made in heaven. Kristen is wallpaper. Heather so far this season has been brittle and abrasive - except at Carole's when she picked up Laurie's baby and carried him around on her hip.  She looked right at home with that little guy.

 

Bethenney. Just. Shut. Up. Please STFU for one minute.

 

Anyway, speaking of Carole's friend Laurie, I don't know how many of you remember a reality show called "To Live and Date in New York". It was a GREAT show, I watched and re-watched it when it was on TV here, and also online. There were two seasons, one filmed in the summer of 2001, which had a very pre-9/11 vibe about it. Its main characters were four vile women who called themselves The Barracudas. They all thought they were hot shit but apart from one (who ran some kind of a wine business) they were just high-class tramps.

 

The second series, filmed in about 2004, featured Laurie Sandell as one of the single women.  Laurie was a little flaky, nice but desperate to find a man. It's not surprising she's friends with Carole, they seem quite alike as they're both bright women but a bit ditzy too. I remember we saw Laurie a couple of seasons ago on RHONY at Carole's apartment when she was pregnant and Carole held a baby shower for her. I think Carole mentioned that Laurie had decided she couldn't wait any longer for a baby so had one without there being a man on the scene (no idea who the father is, or if he's a donor). Anyway, that's just a little aside ... I think Laurie is too smart to sigh up for the HWs. She teaches writing and is also a magazine journalist too.

Edited May 29, 2015 by essexjan

[missy jo]

Almost 3 million tuned in to see episode 1 and then half never returned. She has been the main HW featured so far this season and I do believe the viewers are showing their displeasure of the "Bethenny Redemption Show".

 

 

Dag.

 

Re: WWHL, Bethenny spoke about doing the show in the past tense, implying it was a one-off. Unfortunately, it gave me the impression that this season is setting the stage for her own spin-off next year, and that's the agreement that they made. I hope not!

 

Beth's boyfriend doesn't have to be on-screen, but it's very shady to the viewers that she pretends she doesn't have one. In one of her THs, she specifically said, "And I'm alone."

 

I think Stapler Girl should be Sonja's new intern

 

 

Brilliant! From your mouth to Andy's ears.

Edited May 29, 2015 by missy jo

[sasha206]

I don’t know how much BRAVO has to do with Real Housewives of Melbourne, other than franchising the name/formula, but the drama on that show is far more personality-based.  They still bicker and are awful with each other, but it’s (mostly) petty, superficial garbage, and in the meantime they bring the clothes and parties and lifestyle that NY and Beverly Hills should be providing more than they do. 

.

 

I love, love, love RHO of Melbourne!  It's fun to watch.