General True Crime Shows

[ratgirlagogo]

9 hours ago, smittykins said:

And last night, I watched an episode of 48 Hours about the [URL=https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Chris_Butler_(private_investigator)]PI Moms[/URL], and who was the whistleblower who brought Butler down?   Young Joe Kenda!

To quote myself from a few pages back:

Quote

Go to the library and borrow this book:

https://www.amazon.com/Setup-Story-Dirty-Soccer-Reality/dp/1940363314/ref=cm_cr_arp_d_product_top?ie=UTF8

and you will figure out why you haven't seen him in many other roles.  He's a fabulator and a bit of a sleaze.  Good looking, though, yes - kind of comic the way he doesn't really look like a young Kenda.

He might have been a whistleblower up to a point, but he was an extremely enthusiastic participant in the original entrapment crimes.  Not a great guy.

ETA: spelling

Edited November 11, 2017 by ratgirlagogo

[azshadowwalker]

12 minutes ago, ratgirlagogo said:

He might have a whistleblower up to a point, but he was an extremely enthusiastic participant in the original entrapment crimes.  Not a great guy.

Most informants are scumbags. In the vast majority of cases, they only have their information because they are up to their necks in guilt themselves and are looking for a way out of something. In some cases, like a family member turning in someone, that's not true. Most of the time it is, though. 

[Otter]

21 hours ago, auntjess said:

I just typed out a long, thoughtful post about the Jeffrey Dahmer interview, and Lucy the cat jumped into my lap and deleted it!  I can't type it out again, but it's been broadcast before, years ago.  Watch an interview with his parents, also years ago.  Extended.  To me, Dahmer is one of those nature or nurture questions, or both.  His dad was creepy.  Smiled describing his son's predilection for torturing animals.  Mother was IIRC passive through the entire interview.  Very weird.  And when combining the two interviews all those years ago, I felt some empathy for Dahmer.  And as the trailer shows, he knew he was a monster.  

 

[seasons]

I fucking hate Piers Morgan. Prison interview with Ashley Humphrey. He is so smarmy and obnoxious. Yeah, we know she is a murderer, dude. Quit acting all righteous and indignant, which feels fake anyway, and just interview her. Send in Candace DeLong or even freaking Paula Zahn to get the job done. He is horrible. Go back to England or wherever. 

Edited November 12, 2017 by seasons
No wonder CNN booted his ass out.

[azshadowwalker]

9 hours ago, seasons said:

I fucking hate Piers Morgan. Prison interview with Ashley Humphrey. He is so smarmy and obnoxious. Yeah, we know she is a murderer, dude. Quit acting all righteous and indignant, which feels fake anyway, and just interview her. Send in Candace DeLong or even freaking Paula Zahn to get the job done. He is horrible. Go back to England or wherever. 

I think Candace DeLong is pretty righteous and indignant. It's one of many things I don't like about her. I especially do not like that her show has portrayed women who kill abusers to save their own lives. They are in no way equivalent to people who murder for joy or profit. I don't even like the pretext of the show. You can include the rare female killer on a generic show. Most killers are men, yet there are not shows called "Deadly Men." Instead, we get "American Monsters," and other generic titles that don't refer to sex. 

Edited November 12, 2017 by azshadowwalker

[seasons]

 Piers Morgan is at best a tabloid journalist. Candace has a career in criminal investigations/FBI. My point was that he sucks.  

 

But now I will have to take a closer look at Candace's show, AZ.  Thank you.

Edited November 12, 2017 by seasons
F you, Piers. Lol.

[Annber03]

21 minutes ago, azshadowwalker said:

I don't even like the pretext of the show. You can include the rare female killer on a generic show. Most killers are men, yet there are not shows called "Deadly Men." Instead, we get "American Monsters," and other generic titles that don't refer to sex. 

I think that's kind of the point, though. It's because female killers aren't as common that it makes sense to have a special series that can highlight their crimes as a result, since the whole point is that they stand out more. 

(And besides that, I do remember the ID channel having a couple series here and there at one point that did target men specifically. But in that case, I think those shows were targeting men of specific types or in specific professions.)

12 hours ago, Otter said:

On 11/10/2017 at 8:39 PM, auntjess said:

I just typed out a long, thoughtful post about the Jeffrey Dahmer interview, and Lucy the cat jumped into my lap and deleted it!  I can't type it out again, but it's been broadcast before, years ago.  Watch an interview with his parents, also years ago.  Extended.  To me, Dahmer is one of those nature or nurture questions, or both.  His dad was creepy.  Smiled describing his son's predilection for torturing animals.  Mother was IIRC passive through the entire interview.  Very weird.  And when combining the two interviews all those years ago, I felt some empathy for Dahmer.  And as the trailer shows, he knew he was a monster.  

I caught the first part of that earlier this morning, too. It really is amazing how many times he did things that came off odd and creepy, or was arrested for something, only for people to shrug it off or his crime be seen as some kind of misdemeanor or whatever. And his family kept thinking that just shuttling him off to some new place-his grandparents, college, the army, etc.- would somehow help deal with the problem. Like, maybe by the third time they'd sent him somewhere and realized he was still having problems, somebody could've stepped in and realized this method wasn't working anymore. 

But given the stuff about how his mom's mental illness was dealt with, maybe that factored into people's hesitance to do more, too. Especially since, if Dahmer had been sent to get mental help, who knows if he would've even stayed with it for long, or if his family would eventually pull him out. I dunno. 

I hadn't known about the crimes he committed while serving in the military, that was new. And the whole thing of him being blackened out of high school photos was indeed very eerie and weird. 

[SunnyBeBe]

On 11/10/2017 at 4:28 PM, Frisky Wig said:

I’m interested! I won’t be able to watch the special, unfortunately. 

It's on in two parts, starting tonight. I'll post here about it.  It'll likely be available on the A&E website to view pretty soon. 

[ratgirlagogo]

10 hours ago, Annber03 said:

To me, Dahmer is one of those nature or nurture questions, or both.  His dad was creepy.  Smiled describing his son's predilection for torturing animals.  Mother was IIRC passive through the entire interview.  Very weird.  And when combining the two interviews all those years ago, I felt some empathy for Dahmer.  And as the trailer shows, he knew he was a monster.  

If any of you have never read Derf Backderf's graphic novel My Friend Dahmer  you really need to:

https://www.amazon.com/My-Friend-Dahmer-Derf-Backderf/dp/1419702173/ref=sr_1_1?s=books&ie=UTF8&qid=1510531312&sr=1-1&dpID=51nwvgHf1TL&preST=_SY291_BO1,204,2

It was made into a movie that came out earlier this year (that I haven't seen).  Like Ann Rule's The Stranger Beside Me, it's about the relationship the author had with a monster without realizing it.  Jeffrey Dahmer went to high school with the author, and they were, if not really friend-friends, very much in the same circle of misfits.  Back in the seventies, as I'm sure some of you are old enough to remember,  math/computer geeks and comic book fans and artists and Trekkies were NOT cool at ALL and their lunch table was always the outcasts' table - along with the other social losers and pariahs, including in this case Dahmer.   Nobody thought of Dahmer as "normal" but obviously they didn't foresee him turning into the horror he became.  To call this book fascinating is an understatement.  

[azshadowwalker]

12 hours ago, Annber03 said:

I think that's kind of the point, though. It's because female killers aren't as common that it makes sense to have a special series that can highlight their crimes as a result, since the whole point is that they stand out more. 

(And besides that, I do remember the ID channel having a couple series here and there at one point that did target men specifically. But in that case, I think those shows were targeting men of specific types or in specific professions.)

That's kind of my point, though. That they do shows about specific types of men. They don't imply that it's related to their sex. But we get "Deadly Women", "Wives with Knives", etc that require one be of the female sex to fall into the category. Add to that, even some of the generic shows about spouses who murder have used the femme fatale in the advertising, as if the female killer is so common that she should be the poster girl.  The one thing that binds the vast majority of killers together is their sex, and it isn't female. But we don't have shows where the title specifically refers to the male sex. 

[auntjess]

On ‎11‎/‎11‎/‎2017 at 7:46 PM, Otter said:

  On ‎11‎/‎10‎/‎2017 at 9:39 PM, auntjess said:

I just typed out a long, thoughtful post about the Jeffrey Dahmer interview, and Lucy the cat jumped into my lap and deleted it!  I can't type it out again, but it's been broadcast before, years ago.  Watch an interview with his parents, also years ago.  Extended.  To me, Dahmer is one of those nature or nurture questions, or both.  His dad was creepy.  Smiled describing his son's predilection for torturing animals.  Mother was IIRC passive through the entire interview.  Very weird.  And when combining the two interviews all those years ago, I felt some empathy for Dahmer.  And as the trailer shows, he knew he was a monster.  

I din't write that quote!  I posted about seeing that there was going to be a Dahmer interivew, but my dog Gidget will assure you that I have no cat, of any name.
WTF happened?
Fake post!

[auntjess]

On ‎11‎/‎10‎/‎2017 at 9:39 PM, auntjess said:

I saw an ad that Oxy channel is having a 2 night special Jeffrey Dahmer Speaks.  Can't imagine listening to 2 hours of him.

This is what I posted on 11/10, at 9:39 PM.  I'm confused. 

[walnutqueen]

Sometimes, this site glitches up the quote function, and gives attribution to another poster.  :-(

[SunnyBeBe]

5 hours ago, walnutqueen said:

Sometimes, this site glitches up the quote function, and gives attribution to another poster.  :-(

This has happened to me before.  There seems to be a glitch in the system that causes it.  

Well, I watched Part I of the Elizabeth Smart special last night. I must say that I did learn some new things about the case.  I was rather surprised at how candid Elizabeth was about the details.  And that the entire family appeared on camera for their take on what happened. For someone who was so private about her abduction for so long, she sure came out of the shell.  I know that she has been active in helping other victims recover from their ordeals.  I suspect that this was the outcome of that advocacy.  

It was on for one and a half hours.  I think I missed one small part.  It was right before they talked about bringing in the cadaver dogs.  The police did it, to ensure that her body was not on the property.  But, my question is why didn't they use scent tracking dogs to see where she left the property?  I didn't see them address that. If they had, the dogs could have led them to the wooded area where they were camped out.  

They guy who sponsored the party where Elizabeth and her captors showed up in Salt Lake City broke down, because he kicked them out of the party.  She was obviously a child and looked out of place with those two.  WHY he didn't explore, call police or to something? He blames himself.  I get why.  That was really an odd and cold thing to do. 

I have one question that is rather odd.  Did anyone notice the strange way that Elizabeth pronounces certain words?  I've noticed it before and I can't figure it out.  None of the other family members pronounce certain words like she does.  Does anyone have a theory on this?

I intend to watch Part II tonight.  

Edited November 13, 2017 by SunnyBeBe

[SunnyBeBe]

The Smart movie airs on Nov. 18.

[ApplePie]

4 hours ago, SunnyBeBe said:

This has happened to me before.  There seems to be a glitch in the system that causes it.  

Well, I watched Part I of the Elizabeth Smart special last night. I must say that I did learn some new things about the case.  I was rather surprised at how candid Elizabeth was about the details.  And that the entire family appeared on camera for their take on what happened. For someone who was so private about her abduction for so long, she sure came out of the shell.  I know that she has been active in helping other victims recover from their ordeals.  I suspect that this was the outcome of that advocacy.  

It was on for one and a half hours.  I think I missed one small part.  It was right before they talked about bringing in the cadaver dogs.  The police did it, to ensure that her body was not on the property.  But, my question is why didn't they use scent tracking dogs to see where she left the property?  I didn't see them address that. If they had, the dogs could have led them to the wooded area where they were camped out.  

They guy who sponsored the party where Elizabeth and her captors showed up in Salt Lake City broke down, because he kicked them out of the party.  She was obviously a child and looked out of place with those two.  WHY he didn't explore, call police or to something? He blames himself.  I get why.  That was really an odd and cold thing to do. 

I have one question that is rather odd.  Did anyone notice the strange way that Elizabeth pronounces certain words?  I've noticed it before and I can't figure it out.  None of the other family members pronounce certain words like she does.  Does anyone have a theory on this?

I intend to watch Part II tonight.  

From what I have read, there were scent tracking dogs used. They lost her scent when they got to the road behind the Smart's residence and I believe some theorized she was taken in a car. However, with so many people coming and going that morning on the scene, that also weakened the dogs ability to pick up her scent. 

I felt bad for that guy at the party too. It was an alternative scene though with all types of people, so weird wasn't unusual. BDM was known to people in the city as the weird Jesus guy or whatever and they figured he had just picked up a new follower. I remember an interview they did with some women at that party and they had no idea that Elizabeth was that tall from the photos that were put out. She was a young teenager growing. That I could understand, as her pictures never captured that she was about 5'6" or 5'7".

I thought the first part was very good. 

[CaughtOnTape]

Her mother must feel such unbelievable guilt for what happened.  First, she hires on the dude to do work at the house so he can stake out her kid.  Second, she leaves the window open that he eventually uses to get through.  The therapy this family must have had.  Elizabeth seems to have compartmentalized what happened to her considering she talks about it like it wasn't her.  Her parents did the right thing by her though.  She was kept out of the spotlight when she was returned so she could heal and get through it without people watching and until she was old enough to make the decision herself about whether or not she would talk about it.  Shawn Hornbeck's parents seem to have done the same thing.  He did the rounds after he was found and then they restricted access to him.  

I felt bad for the guy who didn't realize it was her at the party.  He had no way of knowing.  Poor guy.

[SunnyBeBe]

Oh, I see about the scent dog thing. Still, I would think that with her clothes as a guide, they could have taken the scent dogs further from the house, on the off chance they left on foot.  Oh well, it's hindsight now.  I think that there are a lot of issues with handling scent dogs.  Separate issue and one of my pet peeves.

I also thought the party photos showed a very young and frightened child.  Once again, hindsight is 20/20. The guy feels bad about it.  I suppose that I am super vigilant and I watch a lot of true crime stuff, so my radar is always up.  lol  Most people don't think that way. 

That metal wire around her ankle looked painful.  I can't imagine living that way.  I wonder if she suffered permanent injury from it. 

Edited November 13, 2017 by SunnyBeBe

[SunnyBeBe]

Another special on tonight!  People Magazine on ID Discovery is featuring missing toddler Dior Kuntz, who went missing from an Idaho National Park several years ago without a trace. 

https://www.eastidahonews.com/2017/11/preview-investigation-discovery-air-hour-long-deorr-kunz-special-tonight/

[Queena]

13 minutes ago, SunnyBeBe said:

Another special on tonight!  People Magazine on ID Discovery is featuring missing toddler Dior Kuntz, who went missing from an Idaho National Park several years ago without a trace. 

https://www.eastidahonews.com/2017/11/preview-investigation-discovery-air-hour-long-deorr-kunz-special-tonight/

This case is a nightmare. They still do not know what happened to that baby. 

[SunnyBeBe]

4 minutes ago, Queena said:

This case is a nightmare. They still do not know what happened to that baby. 

You are right.  I followed it closely for a good while.   Very disturbing indeed. 

[JasminePhyllisia]

5 hours ago, CaughtOnTape said:

Her mother must feel such unbelievable guilt for what happened.  First, she hires on the dude to do work at the house so he can stake out her kid.  Second, she leaves the window open that he eventually uses to get through.  The therapy this family must have had.  Elizabeth seems to have compartmentalized what happened to her considering she talks about it like it wasn't her.  Her parents did the right thing by her though.  She was kept out of the spotlight when she was returned so she could heal and get through it without people watching and until she was old enough to make the decision herself about whether or not she would talk about it.  Shawn Hornbeck's parents seem to have done the same thing.  He did the rounds after he was found and then they restricted access to him.  

I felt bad for the guy who didn't realize it was her at the party.  He had no way of knowing.  Poor guy.

I've had the same reaction when watching shows about this case.  I feel like the parents were extremely reckless and careless and Elizabeth seems to go out of her way (too much, almost) to emphasize she doesn't blame her parents. Sorry, but I do.

[ApplePie]

I don't blame them. For one thing they were actually pretty overprotective parents of their children. They gave this guy an odd job working for a few hours on the roof out of kindness. They didn't let him all around the house or give him a key. This could have happened to anyone. In no way were they negligent. If they're to blame for this, then I guess you can blame anything on a parent. 

[QuinnInND]

11 hours ago, SunnyBeBe said:

 

I have one question that is rather odd.  Did anyone notice the strange way that Elizabeth pronounces certain words?  I've noticed it before and I can't figure it out.  None of the other family members pronounce certain words like she does.  Does anyone have a theory on this?

 

I hadn't noticed anything about how she pronounces some words. What words in particular have you noticed? 

Elizabeth is a wonderful brave strong woman now. She can be proud of who she has become. I am recording part 2. 

[kathyk24]

23 hours ago, azshadowwalker said:

That's kind of my point, though. That they do shows about specific types of men. They don't imply that it's related to their sex. But we get "Deadly Women", "Wives with Knives", etc that require one be of the female sex to fall into the category. Add to that, even some of the generic shows about spouses who murder have used the femme fatale in the advertising, as if the female killer is so common that she should be the poster girl.  The one thing that binds the vast majority of killers together is their sex, and it isn't female. But we don't have shows where the title specifically refers to the male sex. 

You forgot Evil Stepmothers. I've noticed that they use one female killer in several shows. How many times have we seen Dee Dee Moore or the Whitehead Twins?

[Scarlett45]

Watching the Elizabeth Smart series. I am glad Elizabeth is alive and well, with her family (of origin and her new family). Spending her time and energy helping others is admirable. She said something that stuck with me, and that I had kind of always suspected about her case. Of course I will never know the horrors she went through, and she is an amazing young women to have survived that- but I always thought she was able to return to her family and lead a “normal” life because she did have 14 years of a loving and supportive family that she KNEW loved her, that she KNEW wanted her back etc. 

 She stated that she always felt she could speak to her parents after she was rescued and that most survivors aren’t fortunate enough to have such a great family, and are actually abused by someone that’s supposed to love & protect them and (paraphrasing) she doesn’t know how they survive that- they are stronger than she could ever be. 

At the end in the talking heads with her husband I couldn’t help feeling for her that people ASK HER (to her face) “how are you with sex? Are you a normal couple?” Like wtf that’s not your business.......do people have no shame?

 

Women are strong as hell. 

[ElectricBoogaloo]

Elizabeth Smart did a 25 minute interview about the A&E autobiography documentary special and the Lifetime movie. She is such a strong and intelligent woman.

[SunnyBeBe]

I thought the Part II was even better. I learned a lot about the story that I didn't know.  If it wasn't for the family and American's Most Wanted, she night not have been rescued.  Lots of missteps by the SLC police and FBI, imo.  I hope they learned from that experience. 

I did miss a little bit, because I had to meet a family member at the ER.  How did she say they survived living outside during the winter months in Utah?  

Okay,.  I think I figured out why she has some odd word pronunciations that her family doesn't have.  Her husband is from Scotland and I bet she's picked up on some of the ways he says things.  It makes sense.  The words that I am referring to are those that have the vowel sound of o or a in the middle.  If I have time, I'll try to find a clip that shows it. 

She really is an inspiration.  She almost made it sound like the experience was not that difficult to recover from. But, I know that it must have been.  She really did have a strong base and had such inner strength.  I would suppose that many people who went through something like that might turn to drugs or alcohol.  

http://people.com/human-interest/elizabeth-smart-marriage-to-matthew-gilmour/

There are always what if's in a tragedy, but, I suppose that everyone has moved on in their family.  It's difficult to hire construction workers who don't have criminal records in my state.  Not sure about Utah, but, that's one job that a lot of day laborers work who have records.  But, the guy who approached the mother......red flags there.  And, while they didn't mention it, that I saw...didn't the house have a security system, only they didn't use it.  With that kind of house and their resources and the fact they did have lots of workers around, they should have used one every night.   Security would have been a big concern for me.  Just saying. I'm sure that is part of the reason that Mr. Smart had a nervous breakdown. 

Edited November 14, 2017 by SunnyBeBe

[Frisky Wig]

5 hours ago, ElectricBoogaloo said:

Elizabeth Smart did a 25 minute interview about the A&E autobiography documentary special and the Lifetime movie. She is such a strong and intelligent woman.

Thank you for sharing this. :)

[ApplePie]

A&E posted some bonus clips. I really wish they had included some of these in the documentary.

 

[SunnyBeBe]

Well, they made no bones about the only suspects in the Deorr Kuntiz missing person case.  OMG, they came right out with it.  The parents gave multiple false stories of what happened that day.  I mean, things that police confirmed as lies.  AND they failed multiple polygraphs.  I hope the police are right though and they are close to closing in on the person(s) who are responsible.  I bet they are pretty nervous right now. 

[Otter]

On 11/12/2017 at 8:18 PM, auntjess said:

I din't write that quote!  I posted about seeing that there was going to be a Dahmer interivew, but my dog Gidget will assure you that I have no cat, of any name.
WTF happened?
Fake post!

I'm so sorry.  I quoted you and responded agreeing with you but one of my  cats deleted the post before I could hit submit.  My response was gone, but the quote box remained although empty.  No matter what I tried, I could not delete the quote box with your name.  Lucy the cat works that track bar way better than I can.  

Again,my apologies.  I tried signing out and could not delete the darn quote box after my response was deleted.  No harm intended.  

[JocelynCavanaugh]

14 hours ago, SunnyBeBe said:

Okay,.  I think I figured out why she has some odd word pronunciations that her family doesn't have.  Her husband is from Scotland and I bet she's picked up on some of the ways he says things.  It makes sense.  The words that I am referring to are those that have the vowel sound of o or a in the middle. 

Elizabeth has a pretty textbook Utah Mormon accent. They flatten a lot of vowels, over-pronounce some syllables, and swallow others. You can hear it on Sister Wives too, especially Christine, who is "plyg royalty." (I realize the Smarts are mainstream LDS and the Browns are not.) A good example is the word "feelings" -- posters on the SW forum make fun of them for talking about their "fillings." I'm not sure why Elizabeth's family ("fahbly") doesn't speak with as strong of an accent. Maybe her parents aren't originally from Utah.

[auntjess]

1 hour ago, Otter said:

Again,my apologies.  I tried signing out and could not delete the darn quote box after my response was deleted.  No harm intended.  

No problem, Otter, I was just dumbfounded to me quoted, mentioning "my cat."
I did finally figure out had that might happen, but I thought at first it was a PTV glitch in postings.

Didn't mean to overreact.

[applecrisp]

3 hours ago, SunnyBeBe said:

Well, they made no bones about the only suspects in the Deorr Kuntiz missing person case.  OMG, they came right out with it.  The parents gave multiple false stories of what happened that day.  I mean, things that police confirmed as lies.  AND they failed multiple polygraphs.  I hope the police are right though and they are close to closing in on the person(s) who are responsible.  I bet they are pretty nervous right now. 

I really hate to acuse the parents in these cases. But when the father said that both the gas staion attendant and the delivery driver played with his son and both denied it. I thought that was very weird and suspicious.  Why bother with that. I can only think that he was not with them on the trip to the store. Maybe there was an accident and they covered it up.

I really like The People magazine show.

[SunnyBeBe]

9 hours ago, JocelynCavanaugh said:

Elizabeth has a pretty textbook Utah Mormon accent. They flatten a lot of vowels, over-pronounce some syllables, and swallow others. You can hear it on Sister Wives too, especially Christine, who is "plyg royalty." (I realize the Smarts are mainstream LDS and the Browns are not.) A good example is the word "feelings" -- posters on the SW forum make fun of them for talking about their "fillings." I'm not sure why Elizabeth's family ("fahbly") doesn't speak with as strong of an accent. Maybe her parents aren't originally from Utah.

You could be right, but, I watch Sister Wives and I do know what you are talking about, but, to me, Elizabeth's odd word pronunciation seemed different.  Still, I think she might have picked it up from a Scottish husband. If I get the chance, I'll post what I am describing. 

One thing that surprised me about the special is how young her abductors were. They looked older because they were so unkempt, but, they weren't seniors, as I used to think. 

Edited November 15, 2017 by SunnyBeBe

[Angeltoes]

I am amazed Elizabeth's husband had never heard of her.  She was world news which made her one of the most famous people in the LDS church.

[Queena]

I missed both the Kuntz case and the Elizabeth Smart special. I can't blame her parents because sometimes things just happen. I do know that I would blame myself if I brought someone into our lives, and he did something to my child. 

 

I would lose my fucking mind if this were to happen to me.

 

 

In the baby's case, I'm not sure what's going on with those people. I do know that I would never take my baby to the woods...just in case. 

[SunnyBeBe]

There are so many lies that the Kuntz parents told about the disappearance and police have confirmed it.  AND, have you ever looked at the HUGE drop off that was only feet from where this family set up camp with a toddler? OMG. I'll try to find a photo.  No parent in their right mind would set up a camp near that drop off that went into water.  IMO, the only purpose behind that would be as a place to blame an accident.  Like, "Hey, that looks really dangerous.  Something bad could easily happen there, so let's pretend this is where we were. "   I certainly hope they get to the truth. 

Part way through, you see how close their camp was to the dropoff.  I can't imagine a parent turning a toddlers hand loose near that thing. 

Edited November 15, 2017 by SunnyBeBe

[Brattinella]

3 hours ago, SunnyBeBe said:

There are so many lies that the Kuntz parents told about the disappearance and police have confirmed it.  AND, have you ever looked at the HUGE drop off that was only feet from where this family set up camp with a toddler? OMG. I'll try to find a photo.  No parent in their right mind would set up a camp near that drop off that went into water.  IMO, the only purpose behind that would be as a place to blame an accident.  Like, "Hey, that looks really dangerous.  Something bad could easily happen there, so let's pretend this is where we were. "   I certainly hope they get to the truth. 

Part way through, you see how close their camp was to the dropoff.  I can't imagine a parent turning a toddlers hand loose near that thing. 

WOW what a convenient place to set up camp!  GAH despicable people! :((

[ridethemaverick]

I thought it was interesting that grandpa refused to snitch, so to speak. When questioned about watching the baby, he said something like "I remember my granddaughter saying that, and it was the first time I'd heard it." So basically, they never left the baby with him and he isn't going to be honest about it. All of them are terrible people and I can't fathom going to such lengths to cover up an accident. 

[SunnyBeBe]

8 hours ago, ridethemaverick said:

I thought it was interesting that grandpa refused to snitch, so to speak. When questioned about watching the baby, he said something like "I remember my granddaughter saying that, and it was the first time I'd heard it." So basically, they never left the baby with him and he isn't going to be honest about it. All of them are terrible people and I can't fathom going to such lengths to cover up an accident. 

It is a lot to swallow.  Maybe someday, I'll find out if they searched and located any dirty diapers.  If none were found, it would indicate to me that the child never went on the trip.  I suppose they could claim that they burned them at the campground, but, there would be a pile of ashes in that case. 

Have you ever noticed that in so many murder and missing person cases, the family and friends describe the victim as the bright light that everyone loves.  They drew people to them.  Everyone loved her. She had a glow around her.  Never met a stranger.  It's like they were super human.  It just strikes me how often these people are described as magical people who no less than angels.  Most of the time they are physically beautiful people too. 

[smittykins]

Can I say just how much I hate the promo for "Married With Secrets"? Honey, just because he's cheating on you does NOT give you the right to kill him!

[Lsk02]

On 11/14/2017 at 7:33 AM, SunnyBeBe said:

 

I did miss a little bit, because I had to meet a family member at the ER.  How did she say they survived living outside during the winter months in Utah?  

 

They went to San Diego for the winter. It was kind of amazing how Elizabeth used his tricks against him to convince him to go back to SLC in the spring. And their arrival back happened exactly when there was tons of media coverage again with the kidnappers' names and photos everywhere, which definitely helped her get discovered pretty much as soon as they got back in town. 

 

I'm in awe of her after watching this special. What a remarkable, strong, humble woman. 

Edited November 17, 2017 by Lsk02

[SunnyBeBe]

Me too.  I think Elizabeth is awesome.  She's such an inspiration to me and I've never gone through something like that.  I'm trying to wrap my brain around people who asked her why she didn't run or taunted her about her abduction.  They must not have been well read on things like that.  To me, it's clear what happened. To me, she stayed alive. THAT is a testament to her courage, strength and smarts. (Pardon the pun.)

[auntjess]

I just watched the first episode of this.
http://www.history.com/shows/the-hunt-for-the-zodiac-killer?gclid=EAIaIQobChMItIqT2r3E1wIVVrbACh2xOgFDEAAYASAAEgIfXvD_BwE&cmpid=paidsearch_&s_kwcid=AL!4850!3!232266130048!b!!g!!%2Bzodiac %2Bkiller %2Bhistory&ef_id=WJEHKAAAACSunBM2:20171117014309:s
They are a lot of cryptographers and computers working on this, as well as retired cops and FBI agents.
I started, thinking I'd ff to see how it ends, but I was fascinated.
Do check it out.

[azshadowwalker]

On 11/15/2017 at 8:03 AM, Queena said:

In the baby's case, I'm not sure what's going on with those people. I do know that I would never take my baby to the woods...just in case. 

Going to the woods was a common thing in my working class rural community. My first birthday was spent camping with extended family in the deep woods. Rural people think city people are crazy for exposing children to the violence of city life and working class people wonder how rich people could allow their kids to drown in the swimming pool. As someone who spent considerable time in both environments, the woods are much safer than the city, especially for children.  

[walnutqueen]

23 hours ago, auntjess said:

I just watched the first episode of this.
http://www.history.com/shows/the-hunt-for-the-zodiac-killer?gclid=EAIaIQobChMItIqT2r3E1wIVVrbACh2xOgFDEAAYASAAEgIfXvD_BwE&cmpid=paidsearch_&s_kwcid=AL!4850!3!232266130048!b!!g!!%2Bzodiac %2Bkiller %2Bhistory&ef_id=WJEHKAAAACSunBM2:20171117014309:s
They are a lot of cryptographers and computers working on this, as well as retired cops and FBI agents.
I started, thinking I'd ff to see how it ends, but I was fascinated.
Do check it out.

Thanks, @auntjess - I just set my DVR.

[JasminePhyllisia]

On ‎11‎/‎16‎/‎2017 at 8:09 AM, SunnyBeBe said:

It is a lot to swallow.  Maybe someday, I'll find out if they searched and located any dirty diapers.  If none were found, it would indicate to me that the child never went on the trip.  I suppose they could claim that they burned them at the campground, but, there would be a pile of ashes in that case. 

Have you ever noticed that in so many murder and missing person cases, the family and friends describe the victim as the bright light that everyone loves.  They drew people to them.  Everyone loved her. She had a glow around her.  Never met a stranger.  It's like they were super human.  It just strikes me how often these people are described as magical people who no less than angels.  Most of the time they are physically beautiful people too. 

I wasn't familiar with the case before seeing this but it was a sad story, and I think there are some Casey Anthony parallels when looking at the parents and grandfather. 

And yes, it seems every show about a missing girl includes at least one exclamation that "She lit up a room!"  This one is right up there with "Nobody ever locked their doors in this neighborhood!"

[Christina]

I've never believed DeOrr was ever at that campground. Their house of lies came tumbling down almost immediately.

Ahem...

NO MORE SHOWS ON JEFFREY MACDONALD, INVESTIGATION DISCOVERY!!

Sorry, needed to scream that from the top of my lungs. There is nothing new, there is no bombshell, he's a murderer who needs to fade into oblivion. The commercial looks like they are trying to make him come across as charming and not the piece of shit, waste of air, that he is.

All of these shows repackage the same stories, and every few years we have to hear about old ones again. OJ, Chandra Levy, Scott Peterson, Jodi Arias, Casey Anthony, ect. They're killers, we know, they know, every show says the same thing unless they are trying to make you question the guilt, and it's always for a stupid reason. A witness came forward twenty years after the fact and said "blahblahblah."