S30.E13: My Word Is My Bond

[Nutjob]

Rodney has a chance if he's up against Will and Sierra. I think he loses easily if either Mike or Carolyn is there, though.

[NutMeg]

For the first time ever, Dan impressed me this episode. When he said "I suck at life", I was awed by how perceptive he was.

[Turtle]

I'm as glad as anyone the Dan's out (except for having to see him at Ponderosa).  But is it fair to have the double vote be announced before the call for hidden idols?  Or did Dan jump the gun?  If they are going to keep having both of them, they need to figure that out.

I think it is fair to do the double vote first. Jeff has always called for idols after all the votes are cast, right before he reads the votes, and it makes sense to me that they would keep it that way. Having to play the idol first could render the idol worthless, and since it is an *immunity* idol, the person who plays it should actually have immunity; the advantage is just that- an advantage, and I see it as weaker than the idol.

[Gentian root]

I'm as glad as anyone the Dan's out (except for having to see him at Ponderosa).  But is it fair to have the double vote be announced before the call for hidden idols?  Or did Dan jump the gun?  If they are going to keep having both of them, they need to figure that out.

The instructions on the advantage, IIRC, were to stop Jeff right after he says "I'll go tally the votes."

Dan is an idiot for not using his 2 votes on anyone but the agreed-upon bootee.  It would have forced a tie betweem "X" and himself at the very worst.

[ProfCrash]

I actually think that a better way to play it would be to have a second voting paper there for them to use. Make it a different color and put it out when the person with the advantage walks into the room. The way it worked this season, there was no way for Dan to hide the advantage. He had to carry the paper into the booth with him, which meant that he either had to bury an entire box with people keeping an eye on him so they could dig it up and read it or keep it in his bag where people could read it.

 

Hidden immunity idols can be found and buried before anyone knows that someone has it. It is one thing for people to know that Dan has an advantage but not know what it is as opposed to Dan has an advantage that he can't hide and anyone can really easily find.

[Guest]

nm

I actually think that a better way to play it would be to have a second voting paper there for them to use. Make it a different color and put it out when the person with the advantage walks into the room. The way it worked this season, there was no way for Dan to hide the advantage. He had to carry the paper into the booth with him, which meant that he either had to bury an entire box with people keeping an eye on him so they could dig it up and read it or keep it in his bag where people could read it.

 

Hidden immunity idols can be found and buried before anyone knows that someone has it. It is one thing for people to know that Dan has an advantage but not know what it is as opposed to Dan has an advantage that he can't hide and anyone can really easily find.

I agree but I think they like the possibility of others rifling through his stuff and finding it, especially since it occurred and they showed it.  Plus it was kind of the same as having an idol, in that he could've hidden it or buried it anywhere, he just had to bring it to tribal to use it, right?  Though hiding a box would be harder than a pouch, I agree.  

Edited May 15, 2015 by Guest

[ProfCrash]

Dan said that Sierra told him that Will was talking about voting for Dan. So Dan might have been thinking that Carolyn, Will, and Mike were voting for him. Using his second vote would give Carolyn four votes to his three in that scenario.

 

I can see Dan believing Will might vote for him. Carolyn, Mike, and Will went on the reward together and Will had voted for Dan six days before.

[Jersey Guy 87]

Rodney's inability to form words may be from 'roid withdrawal.

Or hunger as Probst opined.

Coming off anabolic steroids suddenly (as in being cast for Survivor) can result in withdrawal symptoms that include:

    depression and apathy

    feelings of anxiety

    difficulty concentrating

    The melon did make him feel better.

 

Third option - Rodney really is that inarticulate and always has been.  Just throwin' it out there.

 

(emphasis added below)

I don't think Mike or Dan had an effect on Carolyn's decision to play her idol either.  She mentioned earlier in the episode that she was hoping to save it to get to the final 4, but she might have to use it.  Based upon the editing, there is no reason to believe Carolyn does not recognize she's the biggest threat after Dan.  Indeed, despite most of these people not being terribly bright, they have all played a very rational game.  I don't think one could argue with any of the boots or the order in which they occurred.

 

That might be the most frustrating part about this season - I think there has been good actual game play this season, it's just that the people playing fairly well have been completely unlikeable.  Rodney actually did a good job of working two sub-alliances, convincing six people that they were all final four without any of them suspecting the real pecking order.  Heck, even after Dan got two votes (when Mike bluffed playing an idol) Dan still believed that Rodney was "true blue" until the end.  I was pretty sure Rodney was sincere about his Carolyn/Will/Tyler grouping until Tyler got ambushed and then Rodney was all-in voting for Carolyn.  Sierra has been disappointing, but she's able to do basic math.  If she doesn't have numbers to pull off a flip she has no real advantage by flipping.

 

Will has gotten by on a strict "anybody but me" type of approach, and he hasn't been suggested as a boot target in a long while.  He flipped on his original NC alliance and convinced them it was Shirin who had flipped.  Dan believes he's running things (okay, Dan hasn't played well) but he was basically strung along as a sure vote because he had dug his heals in and said he wouldn't flip.  Carolyn has been picking her spots pretty well in the end game, kept her idol a true secret and could easily find a way to win this.

 

Mike has actually played a somewhat weak game - he's been very good in challenges (obviously) but he realized he was a threat too late and wasn't able to rally numbers at that point.  He probably could have gotten Carolyn and Sierra to join him with the NC/Shirin group but he didn't know how to sell it to them.  He had no chance of getting Dan to join him because Dan is an idiot.

[laurakaye]

During the immunity challenge, I was LOL-ing every time Rodney chucked his grappling hook straight into the ground at his feet.  I guess those magic melons didn't sharpen his brain as much as he thought.

 

I seriously cannot remember the last time I didn't give a rat's ass who won this game.  There have been boring seasons for sure, but not one where I wished that the entire jury would write down "NO ONE" on their final votes for the million.  I am, however, greatly looking forward to Dan's condescending, heavily punctuated question to the Final 3.  I hope I'm smart enough to understand him....'cause I'm a woman and all.

Edited May 15, 2015 by laurakaye

[blackwing]

I actually think that a better way to play it would be to have a second voting paper there for them to use. Make it a different color and put it out when the person with the advantage walks into the room. The way it worked this season, there was no way for Dan to hide the advantage. He had to carry the paper into the booth with him, which meant that he either had to bury an entire box with people keeping an eye on him so they could dig it up and read it or keep it in his bag where people could read it.

 

Hidden immunity idols can be found and buried before anyone knows that someone has it. It is one thing for people to know that Dan has an advantage but not know what it is as opposed to Dan has an advantage that he can't hide and anyone can really easily find.

I think when Dan played the extra vote, he used the blank piece of paper in the box.  He could have easily just took out the instructions and the blank piece of paper so that he wouldn't have to carry the box around.  It's not like someone can steal his extra vote.  I wonder if he was physically required to bring that box with him.  The way I see it, when he won it, he won it.  He should have been able to throw the box away and he'd still have the extra vote.  I think that's the way it should be in the future, so that others don't rifle through stuff.

 

When it was announced by Jeff that he had an extra vote, some people looked shocked.  Obviously Carolyn knew about it from Tyler.  Carolyn told Mike.  But I seem to recall Sierra saying something in either a conversation or a TH which implied that she knew as well.  So who was surprised?  Just the Rot and Will?  And how on earth were they surprised.  Dan won that advantage days ago.  These people sit on a beach for 12 hours a day with almost nothing to do.  Why wouldn't there be more conversations about it?  Also, Mike talked about needing to find another idol.  How come no one's looking?  I would hope that they would show us people looking, but I know they have ignored it in the past.

 

Why does Jeff think the Rot's game is so great?  The way I see it, it was Mike that had the blue collar alliance and got Carolyn and Tyler to their side against the No Collars (Carolyn's "the lines will be drawn tonight" pronouncement).  The Rot had very little to do with that.  Mike ostracized himself with the loved ones letter fakeout.  The Rot had nothing to do with that.  The only thing the Rot did was that after Mike alienated the others is to form that secret final four.

[ProfCrash]

Dan said in an interview that he knew someone had gone through the his bag, he assumed Mike or Tyler, and so he told Sierra and Rodney. We know Tyler told Carolyn and Carolyn told Mike so the only person who might not have known about it was Will.

[himela]

I started listening to Dan's interview with Rob and I have to say that I genuinely felt sorry for him. I do belileve strongly that editing can make anyone any day seem like an asshole. I mean, lets all imagine a camera following our every move every day. I bet there are moments in our every day lives that, if they are cut off from the before and the after, they will make us seem like assholes. I am not saying Dan is a saint, but I do believe the editing has on purpose made him look way worse than he may be. I felt sorry for the guy and I get it's entertaining to sit on our couches and talk bad and mock people on tv, but it's unfair for their loved ones. Recently my cousin was in a show in my country and the comments on twitter just made me so sad and uncomfortable that I just felt sick to my stomache. I get it, it's fun to talk about someone's eyebrows or making fun of the way they talk or something, but when the things we say result to insults and sadness for their loved ones who harmed nobody, then it's almost unhuman to do this. I mean, Dan knows he is fat. The way he was mocked for it in this forum and I guess in other forums as well was over the top. I don't think Dan is a bad person. He thought he was being funny or "a character" with his behavior in the game. This should be a hard lesson to be learnt by people who wish to get into a show and think everyone will love them. Editing is harsh and producers will do anything to earn numbers and money, even by compromising someone's integrity and personal life. I said some bad things about Dan as well and I want to apologize. I think Dan should realize we don't mock Dan as a person but Dan as a character in a show. Then he won't be that sad anymore.

I think it is fair to do the double vote first. Jeff has always called for idols after all the votes are cast, right before he reads the votes, and it makes sense to me that they would keep it that way. Having to play the idol first could render the idol worthless, and since it is an *immunity* idol, the person who plays it should actually have immunity; the advantage is just that- an advantage, and I see it as weaker than the idol.

Actually I do remember that when Dan read the paper explaining his advantage it said "it can be used the moment Jeff says 'I'm gonna tally the votes' ", so it was correct how it was used.

[blackwing]

I think Dan should realize we don't mock Dan as a person but Dan as a character in a show. Then he won't be that sad anymore.

I think you should be careful about making generalizations about who "we" are.  Because I'm sorry, but I don't agree with you.  Yes, there is editing.  But they can't edit in comments that you don't say.  Dan's comments about women, and about Sierra, and about Shirin, and his mocking of Shirin and the domestic and emotional abuse in her life by equating it with adoption.  And the pompous way in which he makes. every. thing. sound. like. he's. rehearsing. for. a. play.  They were all there.  He said them.

 

As far as I'm concerned, when you willingly put yourself in the spotlight by appearing on a show like this, anything goes.  If he didn't want people to think he's an ass, then perhaps he shouldn't have acted like one.  Nobody forced him to be on the show or to say and do the things he did.  I think any person that puts themselves in the public eye, be they actors, politicians, musicians or people on reality shows, they need to understand that the price of fame is that you will get criticised.  And if you can't take the criticism, then don't give people anything to criticise you for.  

[How Bout That]

"Hidden immunity idols can be found and buried before anyone knows that someone has it. It is one thing for people to know that Dan has an advantage but not know what it is as opposed to Dan has an advantage that he can't hide and anyone can really easily find."

 

I've always wondered what would happen if someone rummaging around looking for an idol, found one that was already found. How far would production let that go before stepping in. It would be great for someone to whip out an idol at tribal only to have Probst tell them they can't play it because it doesn't belong to them.

[Special K]

I started listening to Dan's interview with Rob and I have to say that I genuinely felt sorry for him. I do belileve strongly that editing can make anyone any day seem like an asshole. I mean, lets all imagine a camera following our every move every day. I bet there are moments in our every day lives that, if they are cut off from the before and the after, they will make us seem like assholes.

 

If cameras followed me around all day and then someone edited the footage in a negative light, they might show me to be lazy, vain, snobbish, cranky, know-it-all, any number of things that I ACTUALLY AM to a certain extent, but they would not show me being an asshole because that's not part of who I am (I don't think!).  So I don't think just anyone could be edited to seem like an asshole.  I'm not saying Dan isn't getting a raw deal, I just think he's currently laying down in the bed he made for himself, not one Survivor made for him.

 

It's really interesting to listen to Rob and Aras talk about this issue at the beginning of Aras's RHAP.  Aras says that when he saw his own edit, he didn't think it represented who he thought he was, but on further reflection, he realized that it did.  That and, I'm paraphrasing here, if any growth can come out of the Survivor experience, you need to consider thoughtfully how you're portrayed.  He's actually pretty judicious and kind in his comments about Dan and his edit.

[jbrecken]

Would they have re-hidden Mike's idol, and possibly snuck a clue to its location into the reward?  It's odd that no one mentioned looking for either an idol or a clue. 

Or is it too close to the end of the game?

[LadyChatts]

If this was just reserved to what we saw on the show, maybe I'd buy the bad editing argument.  But Dan has kept it up outside the show.  He openly says this is who he is, and he makes no apologies.  He doesn't think he did anything wrong.  If he's happy with who he is, and he has a supportive network of people who love him, kudos to him.  I think what is damaging for him is falling in love with the fantasy of Survivor.  Too many years to watch, audition, and craft your character.  He got too caught up in trying to be memorable.  And here I thought he was playing a villain, but he really thought he was a hero.  It has to be frustrating that the very people you argued and despised with in the game are the biggest favorites to emerge this season.  Reality TV and bad editing is nothing new.

Edited May 15, 2015 by LadyChatts

[BigRedCheese]

The thing is, he comes off as bad or worse in his own telling of it. The fastest way to get past this is just to apologize for his behavior, just say it was attempts at humor that fell flat, he didn't realize how it sounded until he saw himself saying it on tv, and now he's mortified and it won't happen again. Show a little self awareness, even if he has to fake it. The train is rapidly leaving the station on that though, if he shuts up until the finale, and then apologizes for his behavior next Wednesday, it might still work, but he has to shut his mouth, which is unlikely.

[Guest]

 I think Dan should realize we don't mock Dan as a person but Dan as a character in a show. Then he won't be that sad anymore.

I haven't listened to the podcast yet but I have trouble feeling too sorry for Dan because he knows the show edits some people into villains (that's reality tv) and he not only volunteered for the position, he told his fellow Survivors he was playing it, and he also made himself the hammiest, over the top villain wannabe since Naonka.  

[Special K]

In his interview with Cochran, which is probably the most strategy-focused interview of the ones I've read and should ostensibly be the most pro-Dan (giving him a chance to discuss his game and not dwell on "the backlash"), Dan still can't restrain himself from insulting Cochran.  It's like he has a default setting of "give offense" in all possible scenarios.

[Guest]

Wow, I guess.  I'm about 20 minutes into his RHAP one now and I'm going to shut if off because now I cannot stand him.  So rude of him to attack Rob.  

 

And he has zero self-awareness and is potentially an idiot.  He claims he didn't "deserve" his edit and that people don't realize things happened we didn't see?  Seriously?  Has he ever seen reality tv?  Did he really think all those black and white characters on tv were that black and white in real life, not just edited that way?  

[Dobian]

I just watched this no.  Oh happy day, see you Dan!  I loved how playing his extra vote actually kind of backfired on him.  It convinced Carolyn if there was any doubt that she should play her idol.  So bascially there are three people left who can win Survivor - Rodney, Mike, and Carolyn.  And Rodney can only win if he takes Will and Sierra with him to the final.

[peachmangosteen]

I've always wondered what would happen if someone rummaging around looking for an idol, found one that was already found. How far would production let that go before stepping in. It would be great for someone to whip out an idol at tribal only to have Probst tell them they can't play it because it doesn't belong to them.

 

I believe I've read that Production just tells them that it's an already found idol.

 

I wonder if Will really was contemplating voting out Dan or if Sierra just made it up? I'm trying to see how it would benefit Sierra either way, to make it up or to tell Dan about it. I guess she could've been trying to get him to play his advantage so it would be out of the way. Good job on her part and more reasons for me to hope she wins.

Edited May 15, 2015 by peachmangosteen

[SlackerInc]

I actually think that a better way to play it would be to have a second voting paper there for them to use. Make it a different color and put it out when the person with the advantage walks into the room. The way it worked this season, there was no way for Dan to hide the advantage. He had to carry the paper into the booth with him, which meant that he either had to bury an entire box with people keeping an eye on him so they could dig it up and read it or keep it in his bag where people could read it.

 

Hidden immunity idols can be found and buried before anyone knows that someone has it. It is one thing for people to know that Dan has an advantage but not know what it is as opposed to Dan has an advantage that he can't hide and anyone can really easily find.

 

I like this idea.  Or at least some way to allow the extra vote to be used without tipping off people with HIIs.  It's hilarious when it happens to Dan, but we'd all be pretty grumpy if this keelhauled the only good rooting interest left.

 

During the immunity challenge, I was LOL-ing every time Rodney chucked his grappling hook straight into the ground at his feet.  I guess those magic melons didn't sharpen his brain as much as he thought.

 

I seriously cannot remember the last time I didn't give a rat's ass who won this game.  There have been boring seasons for sure, but not one where I wished that the entire jury would write down "NO ONE" on their final votes for the million.  I am, however, greatly looking forward to Dan's condescending, heavily punctuated question to the Final 3.  I hope I'm smart enough to understand him....'cause I'm a woman and all.

 

I too loved Rodney's flail, and they showed every one.  Amazing that he can't figure out a basic feature of ropes that every seven year old jumping rope has mastered.

 

Your last line "'cause I'm a woman and all" made me laugh and reminded me of Leslie Knope.  :)

 

If he didn't want people to think he's an ass, then perhaps he shouldn't have acted like one.

 

Truer words were never spoken.  And he actually thought he was too nice this time!  But that shouldn't surprise us: remember his "apology" to someone (Sierra, was it?) that just dug himself in deeper?  Yet he thought he was being oh so gallant.

[AZChristian]

I hope Mike and Carolyn make it to the end with Will. Why Will? Because I want to see him sitting front and center when the world goes off on him. Shirin, Mike, Jeff, Twitter, the audience . . . I could live with either M or C winning for various reasons, but I want Will's humiliation to be complete. The only thing that would make it ultimately sweet would be if he has his pastor in the audience, and they interview him, too.

[Turtle]

I have mixed feelings about whether the advantage should have to be announced before being used, or done secretly while voting. On one hand, you guys make a good point that it tips off idol holders. On the other hand, an extra vote is a fundamental change in how the voting works, and I don't like the idea of keeping it a secret while it's happening. Even with the HII, the existence of,them was never a secret- everyone knew they had become of the game, they just don't always who has one or who is going to play one. Knowing when to play the idol is strategy, and I think knowing when and how to use your advantage is strategy too. So I guess I lean toward keeping it the way it was this week.

On RHAP Know It Alls, Rob and Stephen were saying that Dan should have thrown both of his votes to Sierra. That makes sense to me only if Dan was sure that *only* Mike and Carolyn were voting for him and that they didn't have an HII, right? If anyone had flipped (like apparently Dan thought Will did), then there would have been three votes against Dan, and so there would be no point in him giving Sierra two votes because then it would be 2-3-2 (C-D-S). In that case, assuming as he mistakenly did that Carolyn did not have the idol, an extra vote for Carolyn would mean she's out 4-2 (4-3 if he uses the advantage). But if only Mike and Carolyn vote for him, and Rodney, Will, and Sierra vote for Carolyn as planned, then Dan's two votes for Sierra mean a 3-2-2 (C-S-D) tie after Carolyn plays the idol, with a re-vote where no one can vote for Mike, Carolyn, or Dan. Am I understanding that? If so, I guess Dan's play wasn't as stupid as I originally thought it was, and that he was going home regardless of whether he used his advantage, because of Carolyn's idol. Please let me know if I'm confused!

[blackwing]

But if only Mike and Carolyn vote for him, and Rodney, Will, and Sierra vote for Carolyn as planned, then Dan's two votes for Sierra mean a 3-2-2 (C-S-D) tie after Carolyn plays the idol, with a re-vote where no one can vote for Mike, Carolyn, or Dan. Am I understanding that? If so, I guess Dan's play wasn't as stupid as I originally thought it was, and that he was going home regardless of whether he used his advantage, because of Carolyn's idol. Please let me know if I'm confused!

No, that's not right.  If it was 3-2-2 and Carolyn played her Idol, there would be a revote.  Dan and Sierra can't vote, and the remaining four can ONLY vote for either Dan or Sierra.

 

I still view it as a completely stupid move of Dan's.  The only reason why it would make sense is if he didn't trust anyone in his alliance.  Dan, the Rot, Will and Sierra had all discussed voting for Carolyn.  Did he not trust them?  Did he think Sierra was going to vote for him?  And thus he used his vote to break a perceived 3-3 tie?  Also, as a huge fan of the game, he really should have considered the possibility that either Mike or Carolyn had an Idol.  Tony had like 2 or 3 on his season.  And no one ever mentioned the White Collar idol.  He and the Rot were close, and he was close with Will (as God is my witness!) so the three of them should have discussed throwing some votes to Sierra.

[Guest]

Wow, I guess.  I'm about 20 minutes into his RHAP one now and I'm going to shut if off because now I cannot stand him.  So rude of him to attack Rob.  

 

And he has zero self-awareness and is potentially an idiot.  He claims he didn't "deserve" his edit and that people don't realize things happened we didn't see?  Seriously?  Has he ever seen reality tv?  Did he really think all those black and white characters on tv were that black and white in real life, not just edited that way?  

Maybe Dan's a better actor than I thought.  Today I wonder if he was still in character in the interviews, still trying to bluster his way into the Biggest Survivor Asshole title, to get invited back.  He acted all pissed at Rob at the beginning and throughout then at the end when Rob said maybe he could come back some time Dan was all friendly and pandering for more airtime.  

Edited May 16, 2015 by Guest

[kikaha]

blackwing, how do you think the revote would have gone, with the four contestants having to choose between Dan and Sierra?   Seems like Rod and Will vote for Sierra.  What about Carolyn and Mike? 

[Turtle]

blackwing, thanks. I kept feeling like something was wrong with my logic, and it was definitely how the re-vote works. I got that all backwards! I still think that as long as Carolyn had the idol and no one knew, Dan was going home. Even if he thought Carolyn has the idol, what can he do? I guess try to Rodney and Will to vote Sierra with him?

[BigRedCheese]

 

I hope Mike and Carolyn make it to the end with Will. Why Will? Because I want to see him sitting front and center when the world goes off on him.

 

If Will has any intelligence or self-awareness, he's watched Dan make an even bigger fool of himself this week trying to blame all his bullying and buffoonish behavior on his edit; and he will just apologize and move on from there. Somehow I doubt it, but that's his best course of action.

[blackwing]

blackwing, how do you think the revote would have gone, with the four contestants having to choose between Dan and Sierra?   Seems like Rod and Will vote for Sierra.  What about Carolyn and Mike?

I think Carolyn and Mike still vote for Dan.  It is a tie again, and at that point I think it goes to rocks?  Dan's luck of the evil (oh, excuse me, he is the hero in his mind) wins out, and Sierra la puerta goes home.

 

lackwing, thanks. I kept feeling like something was wrong with my logic, and it was definitely how the re-vote works. I got that all backwards! I still think that as long as Carolyn had the idol and no one knew, Dan was going home. Even if he thought Carolyn has the idol, what can he do? I guess try to Rodney and Will to vote Sierra with him?

I agree that if Carolyn plays the idol, he's done.  I suppose what he could have tried to do was a true #blindside.  He should have approached Carolyn about getting Sierra out.  Make an argument that Sierra is well liked by the jury, while the rest of them have all done things to irritate them.  Sierra needs to go.  Tell Sierra that they are going to pretend to vote her out so she doesn't get paranoid and switch sides.  Sierra was clearly with him, since she voted with the other three despite Mike saying that one of the women was going home.  Then keep your mouth shut.  Carolyn doesn't play her idol and she goes home.

[Vodka]

Shirin would have solved that puzzle in three minutes.

Yeah, while drinking her coffee in the Yahoo office while her staff does all the work.

She was the one who messed up the puzzle part for the White Collars on the first ever challenge, right? That was when they still probably better rested and not as hungry as now. Edited May 16, 2015 by Vodka

[Sarahendipity]

"I think Carolyn and Mike still vote for Dan.  It is a tie again, and at that point I think it goes to rocks?  Dan's luck of the evil (oh, excuse me, he is the hero in his mind) wins out, and Sierra la puerta goes home."

Blackwing, the rock draw happens with the remaining contestants. Dan and Sierra wouldn't draw.

[blackwing]

"I think Carolyn and Mike still vote for Dan.  It is a tie again, and at that point I think it goes to rocks?  Dan's luck of the evil (oh, excuse me, he is the hero in his mind) wins out, and Sierra la puerta goes home."

Blackwing, the rock draw happens with the remaining contestants. Dan and Sierra wouldn't draw.

Ah you're right, I had a cloudy mind.  Rocks are for the people who AREN'T tied, and the whole purpose is to get people to switch votes out of fear that they could go home themselves, so they want to avoid another deadlock.

 

So Dan really should have used his extra two votes on Sierra if he wanted to guarantee saving himself.  Under that scenario though (Mike won immunity, Carolyn uses Idol, Dan and Sierra in a 2-2 tie), that means one of his two closest buds, either Will or the Rot, goes home.  But he didn't even think of it. 

[ProfCrash]

Sierra told Dan that Will asked her about voting for Dan. Dan thought he had three votes. His second vote would have kept him safe in that scenario.

[kikaha]

Suppose the Terrible Trio had split their first votes, resulting in a tie between Sierra and Dan.  I wonder if Rod and Will would have voted for Sierra on the re-vote?  Seems crazy to do so: they just about guarantee they have to go to rocks, and one of them gets booted.

 

If they understand that, I think at least one of them votes out Dan on the revote.  Dan would probably have lost that night, no matter how he played his advantage. 

 

It is ironic that Dan's best shot a surviving that TC was to listen to Mike earlier that day.  Mike probably could have saved him.  Dan still doesn't see that, though.  

 

I think Dan's biggest flaw as a game player is that he always has to be right.  No matter what happens, he understands it.  Usually ahead of time.  Nothing catches him by surprise.  Total BS of course.  He can't admit he is wrong, even after seeing proof on national TV.     

[lilabennet]

If Dan hadn't been such an ass when Mike went to talk to him about helping him out, then Mike may not have voted for him at tribal.  Then the vote would have been 5-1-1, there would have been a re-vote, and it wouldn't have mattered that Dan was such an idiot with his extra vote.  I still think Dan would have been booted during the re-vote but there may have been a small chance he could have survived.  I love knowing that there are multiple ways Dan could have managed to save himself, but he botched all of them.

[kikaha]

If Dan hadn't been such an ass when Mike went to talk to him about helping him out, then Mike may not have voted for him at tribal.  Then the vote would have been 5-1-1, there would have been a re-vote, and it wouldn't have mattered that Dan was such an idiot with his extra vote.  I still think Dan would have been booted during the re-vote but there may have been a small chance he could have survived.  I love knowing that there are multiple ways Dan could have managed to save himself, but he botched all of them.

 

If Dan had paid attention to Mike, the two of them could have voted together, against Sierra, Will or Rod.   Whichever one they choose is gone. 

[dolphincorn]

But don't you understand that flippers never win?

[Ms Blue Jay]

Flippers never win.  It's just simple math.

[Turtle]

Dan's downfall in this game was his tendency to absolutely refuse to believe anything that didn't fit in to his narrative at that moment. He is a big fan, and he truly believed that he is smart and strategic, and that he was playing a great game. Sierra was inconsequential, and he only apologized because Mike told him to, because he didn't do anything wrong; regardless, she's a non-entity. He educated Shirin on how to play the game, because she obviously is stupid. Mike flipped (still so confused about that) and so he's enemy number one, because even though flippers never win, Dan flipped on BC. Carolyn is an old lady, to be dropped whenever he wants. He was never at the bottom of his alliance. Dan believed, and I think still believes, all of those things. And none of those things are true.

But Dan couldn't or wouldn't allow himself to consider that his perceptions of people could be wrong, or that anyone would turn on him (remember how easily he forgave Tyler and Will for voting for him?), or that any of the wimmins were actual live thinking conscious beings. More than anything, despite all evidence to the contrary, he never thought he was on the bottom of his alliance and, I think, actually thought he was in charge.

Instead, he made snap judgments about people or situations, and refused to listen to Mike, or anyone else, when they tried to explain reality to him. I don't know if it's stupidity, or arrogance, or both, but Dan could have been goated* to the end instead of going out at F6 (we can all agree he wasn't going to win, right?).

Tl;dr- hubris

*I needed a word to describe being taken to the end as a goat, and I decided I liked goated.

Edited May 17, 2015 by Turtle

[Zuleikha]

If Dan hadn't been such an ass when Mike went to talk to him about helping him out, then Mike may not have voted for him at tribal.

To be fair to Dan, Dan was right and Mike was wrong in that instance. Dan was not the target, and his alliance did not turn on him. Carolyn was the target. The only reason he got voted out is because Carolyn played her idol and so the votes for her were nullified.

 

However much I dislike Dan (which is a lot!), he is correct that Mike seems to have actually been wrong in every instance where he tried to get Dan and Sierra to turn on Rodney. We'll never fully know the truth of which of Rodney's alliances Rodney viewed as real until Rodney's voted out and speaks to it, but events have shown that Tyler and Carolyn were both targeted before Dan and Sierra. IMHO, it is unlikely that either Dan or Sierra would have gained much by flipping, especially given that we all think Mike will win if he makes f3. Sierra, in particular, is in a good position with Mike and Carolyn as more desirable targets and Will and Rodney as her best set of final 3 partners for a win. Immunity competitions can always screw things up for her, but IMHO, it's unlikely that flipping would have set her up any better.

[cooksdelight]

Honestly, I wish they'd send the next batch out there with no idols. Don't tell them that, but have them floundering around looking for something that's not there. No gimmicks, no special powers....just plain old survival with no fancy food rewards either. You'd see a different bunch of personalities emerge.

[LadyChatts]

Honestly, I wish they'd send the next batch out there with no idols. Don't tell them that, but have them floundering around looking for something that's not there. No gimmicks, no special powers....just plain old survival with no fancy food rewards either. You'd see a different bunch of personalities emerge.

 

Apparently Escemeca thought that was the twist this season-no idols.  Kelly said the tribe looked everywhere for a couple of days and couldn't find one, so they assumed that they weren't doing them.  Which I agree is a twist in itself, is to have no idols and no advantages, but make everyone think they are out there.  Maybe even still give clues to the idols and make them go on a wild goose chase and create paranoia.  I could totally do without the fancy rewards.  I keep thinking, no wonder the blues did so well, they got the cushiest rewards.  Frankly, I could almost do without the rewards, at least in the pre-merge phase.

 

In regards to a re-vote, I'm saying Dan goes.  All anyone would have to bring up is the rocks, and Will would probably flip and vote for Dan.  Carolyn and Mike would vote for Dan, and it likely wouldn't matter what Rodney did.  For whatever reason, Dan was more of a target than Sierra out there.

[SVNBob]

My question is this..if Dan believed Mike that they were going to vote him out..how could Mike have helped him?

Mike (and Carolyn, in Mike's mind) would have voted with Dan instead of for him. Their combined 4 votes would take the majority and they'd hold it to the end of the game.

[needschocolate]

Note to Dan - even if flippers don't win, they will still get you out.

 

In regards to a re-vote, I'm saying Dan goes.  All anyone would have to bring up is the rocks, and Will would probably flip and vote for Dan.  Carolyn and Mike would vote for Dan, and it likely wouldn't matter what Rodney did.  For whatever reason, Dan was more of a target than Sierra out there.

 

I agree. In a re-vote, Rodney and Will would vote for who Mike and Caroline vote for.  Mike and Caroline are immune, so if they go to rocks, it is Rodney and Will sticking their hands into the bag.  The only voting options in a re-vote would be Sierra and Dan, and Mike and Caroline would probably still vote for Dan.  

 

But I think it would have been great if Dan used his two votes on Sierra, there was a tie, and on the re-vote, Will and Rodney vote for Dan, to avoid picking rocks, and Mike and Caroline change their vote to Sierra - just so it would be tied and Rodney or Will is out.  

 

I think Dan was the target because he had the advantage.  

[LadyChatts]

Note to Dan - even if flippers don't win, they will still get you out.

 

 

I agree. In a re-vote, Rodney and Will would vote for who Mike and Caroline vote for.  Mike and Caroline are immune, so if they go to rocks, it is Rodney and Will sticking their hands into the bag.  The only voting options in a re-vote would be Sierra and Dan, and Mike and Caroline would probably still vote for Dan.  

 

But I think it would have been great if Dan used his two votes on Sierra, there was a tie, and on the re-vote, Will and Rodney vote for Dan, to avoid picking rocks, and Mike and Caroline change their vote to Sierra - just so it would be tied and Rodney or Will is out.  

 

I think Dan was the target because he had the advantage.  

 

Now that would have been a TC for the books.  I can only imagine the look on Rodney and Will's faces when they saw Sierra's name come up and realized it was going to a tie.  Dan's advantage would have been out of the way, as would Carolyn's idol, and Mike could have potentially outlasted Rodney like he told Dan he wanted to.  Of course I can only imagine the tantrums back at the beach had both Rodney and Dan made it-talk about blowing the TV up.

[Turtle]

However much I dislike Dan (which is a lot!), he is correct that Mike seems to have actually been wrong in every instance where he tried to get Dan and Sierra to turn on Rodney.

My memory isn't good enough to remember all the times Mike tried to get Dan to flip or how he was wrong, or if Mike knew what he was saying was wrong but was just trying to sway Dan, but there were several times that if Dan and Sierra had flipped, it would have changed who got the boot that episode. Mike was wrong that Dan's alliance was targeting Dan, but if Dan had voted with Mike, Dan would have stayed. So, yeah, Dan- Mike was wrong in what he told you, but that kind of isn't the point- you're still gone. (I also really dislike Dan and I will give him no quarter!)

[blackwing]

Jeff said that they are probably going to bring this double vote back in the future.  At which point, any players would just automatically assume that it's probably a double vote.  I guess it'd be better if they do it for Season 32, which I think has already filmed, so these people wouldn't have had the benefit of seeing it on TV.