S01.E22: All Happy Families Are Alike

[Chicago Redshirt]

So many mixed feelings...

 

Props for killing Maroni. I thought that he was protected by plot armor because in most of the previous incarnations of the character, he lives to give Harvey Dent his infamous acid wash well after Batman's all growed up. Maybe that means that people are less safe than one might think.

 

So I guess we don't need to know how Fish and co. survived after the helicopter was shot and Fish was wounded. We don't even need to know how they got in a boat and found their way back to Gotham. We can just forget that Dollmaker's security team should have caught up to them. All we need to know is they are here.

 

The first attempted hit on Falcone was pretty ridiculously bad. The second one was worse. I can appreciate the homage to the Godfather with the mobster left semi-defenseless at the deserted hospital, but come on! The bad guys bring Loeb to have a parlay with Jim instead of just killing him?

 

Why would anyone salute Jim? Police officers as far as I know don't salute superiors in general.

 

Last I checked, Leslie was the M.E. Why is she supposed to have any sort of professional relationship with Barbara, who is living? And how is it possible that Barbara killed her parents without having blood all over her?

 

How come Gordon is suddenly saying he's done in this town? Last I checked, he just helped close out a serial killer who had taken out a couple dozen women over years.

 

When the mobsters started shooting up the ambulance, how could they tell it was Jim from when they started shooting?

 

So Falcone had been talking smack all season and one little rocket-powered grenade is enough to make him wuss out. And he gives Gordon a phallic symbol from his father before he calls it quits. I would probably give a lot for Falcone to admit that he was lying about getting out the game, and lying about the knife being Jim's dad's.

 

I wonder if Alfred was supposed to know about proto-Bat Cave and about whatever Thomas Wayne was up to, or if he's just discovering it with Bruce. I kinda hate it that like in so many incarnations of the Bat-mythos, Martha Wayne doesn't really do anything but die.

 

[Ubiquitous]

Who wants to wager that next season begins with

Emily telling Bob Newhart that's the last time they eat Japanese food before watching "that show" with Adam West

?

[Malbec]

I have terrible audio memory, but I think the music at the end was Prokofiev's Dance of the Knights?

[Milz]

Holy Hot Mess, Batman!

 

Fish: Somewhere between leaving the Strange Island of Doctor Dollmacher, she lands the helicopter, gets an extreme makeover (hair, makeup, clothes), finds a boat and sets sail for Gotham. Ummm yeah. I liked that Fish gave Harvey a pass and realized Butch's actions were due to being changed. PS, cats like fish for dinner.

 

Daddy Wayne: He can't be The Phantom because Phantom is based in Bangalla, not Gotham. He's definitely not the nephew of the nephew of the nephew of the Lone Ranger (because that's Britt Reid. And in some versions, Britt Reid and Bruce Wayne are frenemies.) The Shadow? No, that's Lamont Cranston. The Doctor? No, because the BBC would be very angry.

 

Dumbarella the psychokiller: So now she's a psychotic killer who's offed her parents and tried to off Thompson. Yawn. I wish she gets off my screen. Get thee to Arkham.

 

Thompson: Someone call the Board of Medicine and get this quack's license revoked. StupidLee agrees to do psych counseling, even though she admits that she isn't her field and even though there's a clear conflict of interest, because Dumbarella likes her? StupidLee, just stick to autopsies because you have no business providing medical services to living, breathing people. And I hope you aren't the future Batgirl's mama because she don't need your StupidLee DNA.

 

Penguin: I suppose he watched DiCaprio in Titanic one too many times. I so wanted a big ol' lightning bolt to come out of the menacing cloud and give him a Frankstein's Monster electric shock.

[paigow]

Penguin: I so wanted a big ol' lightning bolt to come out of the menacing cloud and give him a Frankstein's Monster electric shock.

Lightning would only enhance his powers of evil....Butch needs the lightning to reboot his brain.

[NutmegsDad]

Like another Fox Drama, the boring-ass female romantic FINALLY gets interesting at the end and becomes kick ass. I'm hoping Barbara goes off to Arkham and escapes as a protovillian.

 

Bat Cave! Great last minute reveal..... that we SAW IN THE FRAKKING PROMOS!

 

Robin Lord Taylor earned a bonus "chew up the scenery" ending with his "King of the World/Gotham!" denounment.

 

And.... the Riddler Switch is turned on.

 

Nice seeing Camren out of the KittyGirl garb and in "normal" wear.

 

Since Jim is Heir Presumptive of Gotham, it sets up him against the Penguin.

 

Nice first season! Don't fuck up next year's!

 

How come Gordon is suddenly saying he's done in this town? Last I checked, he just helped close out a serial killer who had taken out a couple dozen women over years.

 

The only thing I can think of was that The Ogre was GCPD's Cobblepotiest of all Cobblepots and now the city knows.

[darkestboy]

Holy hell, that was an interesting finale. Not the best one I've ever seen but delightfully bonkers though in the right way.

Falcone was smart to get the hell out of Gotham, though I imagine he'll be back at some point next season though.

Fish killing Maroni was delightful. He so had it coming and losing him won't be a loss to the show to be honest.

Oswald had to be the one to kill Fish but I wish they had developed their dynamic more in the first season. It would've made Fish's death more impacting.

Liked Selina and Fish actually working together. Liked Bruce and Alfred maybe discovering the Bat Cave too.

Gordon and Bullock had their moments in this episode too.

Barbara going all psycho on Leslie was an interesting development. Possibly a new villain for Season 2?

Nygma looks like he's going to lose it big time next year as well, 7/10

[Latverian Diplomat]

Yeah, I'm not buying Selena suddenly being a joiner.  It doesn't fit with either the Selena from the comics or-- so far-- what we've seen of her on the show.  Gotham's showrunners went so far as to say, over on TVLine, that Selena saw Fish as some sort of surrogate mother figure, because Serena's never had a mother, blah, blah, blah....  yeah, shut up, showrunners.

 

Yeah, the showrunners are nuts with that one. I think that one of the things that we have seen Selina do is try out roles for herself. Gordon's CI, Barbara's buddy, Bruce's sidekick. She hangs with people to explore them, and moves on when they stop being interesting or start being too demanding. So this worked OK for me, since she bailed when the time came.

 

I thought Selina rocked the new look, and loved her dismissal of Jim's attempt to exploit their "connection".

 

I do think that Fish was supposed to be this incredibly manipulative charmer, who found people's emotional weak spots and exploited them. But neither the writing nor JPS's acting really carried that off. I will be fine if we never see Fish again.

 

Liked crazy Barabara, is that the first time we've seen that actress smile? I think it's ambiguous whether she's dead or not. Not sure if there's a lot of mileage left to get out of her character, but I guess I'd rather she was still around for a guest shot or two. I also wonder if Falcone will really stay retired.

 

I wonder if Penguin and his mom used to watch their Titanic DVD together a lot.

 

Nygma's freakout should have been sans camera/editing tricks. I think it's better to trust the actor to convey stuff like that.

[Blakeston]

I didn't think they'd kill off Maroni. But aside from that unexpected moment, I didn't find the episode to be all that crazy.

 

A "holy shit, Bruce's father built the batcave!" moment would have been awesome. But they didn't show us a batcave - which makes me think it's something less exciting.

 

And Barbara as a lunatic would have been a good twist if they hadn't already shown us that Barbara is apeshit insane.

 

Throughout the episode, I kept waiting for the big, dramatic moment where Fish dies. That's where I really expected to see some fireworks. And then she falls into some water? That's the most cliched way a showrunner can say, "We didn't have the balls to actually kill this character off."

 

That's almost as much of a cliche as establishing that a villain has multiple personalities. Oh wait...

Edited May 5, 2015 by Blakeston

[Jediknight]

Loeb and Maroni were complete idiots.

 

Maroni's obvious with his constant needling of Fish.  Dude, don't piss off a crime boss that has survived multiple attempts on their life.

 

Loeb only has 4 guys with him to confront Gordon.  You'd figure Loeb would want more backup, he knows Jim, he knows Jim was highly decorated special forces, and still only brings 4 average mooks.  Yeah, cause you don't want more guys when confronting someone who's actually trained in multiple forms of unarmed combat, and weapons.

 

Gotta love that we're no closer to finding out who ordered the hit on the Waynes.  They just completely dropped that plot point.

[Delphi]

So that happened. I think I'm going to need a something a bit sturdier to suspend my disbelief next season.

What I liked:

Everything with Bruce and Alfred, if anything this should have been a two hour event and they should have had more focus. Gotham has too many storylines to cram everything in to forty five minutes.

I enjoyed Fish shooting Sal right in the head. Long overdue. Bye Sal, I guess some other mobster will disfigure Mr. Dent.

Everything with Leslie and Barb. Even though there is no way Lee could ethically treat Barbara.

The penthouse set. I love it.

Things I didn't like:

Selina, shut up, why are you suddenly working with Fish? It was out of the blue and didn't work for Selina's character. Though I did enjoy her banter with Jim. Also to borrow a phrase from Nikita, why was she suddenly sounding like a teen meth whore? That was awful.

Oswald, why confess to setting this up? Why not just watch from the sidelines. That is not a king of Gotham move. You don't need to take action every time, let the pawns do the work.

Fish's death was...anticlimactic to say the least. Like I said last week, if she's going to be on the screen she needed to add to the show. I guess it's a moot point now since Jada is done, but it's still disappointing.

Falcone. So someone takes a hit out on and within moments his entire criminal empire falls apart? He has no more guns, or assassins or influence. It doesn't make sense. Nor does it make sense that the corrupt city leaders would want a hothead like Maroni in charge. Another reason this should have been two hours. If they wanted to do this, they should have shown us Carmine losing his power, his assassins betraying him or getting locked up.

Things in whatever about:

Riddler. I enjoyed that he hated himself for his compulsion to leave a clue. But the rest was just okay.

[bobbyjoe]

Penguin: I suppose he watched DiCaprio in Titanic one too many times.

 

Does this make Butch Kate Winslet?

[MichelEliz]

I liked it. A lot.

 

Now I'm embarrassed.

 

I LOVED IT TOO! *hanging my head in shame*. LOLL!

 

Each character was addressed and given a new path....

Love Ms. Kringle catching on to Nygma!

[Chicago Redshirt]

Oswald, why confess to setting this up? Why not just watch from the sidelines. That is not a king of Gotham move. You don't need to take action every time, let the pawns do the work.

...

Falcone. So someone takes a hit out on and within moments his entire criminal empire falls apart? He has no more guns, or assassins or influence. It doesn't make sense. Nor does it make sense that the corrupt city leaders would want a hothead like Maroni in charge. Another reason this should have been two hours. If they wanted to do this, they should have shown us Carmine losing his power, his assassins betraying him or getting locked up.

Supervillains wouldn't be supervillains if they could resist gloating and twisting the knife. 

 

I could buy that city officials might switch to Maroni, thinking he's got the upperhand. After all, all season long, people have been describing Falcone as weak. He nearly was overthrown by Fish earlier. He basically had to concede power to Maroni over Arkham. And to paraphrase the Godfather, if the old man dies after the hit, his family loses all the judges and politicians in his pocket. And as Falcone himself concedes in the end, his heart wasn't in trying to run Gotham anymore.

[Dobian]

The episode was full of things that didn't make sense.  Selina working for Fish, like everyone said.  She's an independent, a loner, resourceful.  She never needed to be a part of a gang. 

 

Babs killing her parents, come on.  I can buy her  being so shell-shocked and needing to save herself that she would give up a name to the Ogre, but you don't go from being a civilized person to a Manson family member just because you were kept captive for a few days.  And it's not like he did anything especially horrific to her during those days, like you've seen done to some real kidnap victims.  Her hair and makeup were all in place the whole time.  I don't know how the show runners expect her to go from Manchurian Candidate back to being someone that anyone would want to be alone in a room with now.  And if she really did have subconscious thoughts of murdering her parents and the Ogre just flipped the switch, then that makes her a psychopath.  I'm glad she didn't kill Leslie, I would have been pissed if she did.

 

Penguin tossing Fish over the ledge, another WTF?  Fish could take the scrawny Penguin any day, no matter who's been shot.  I know Pinkett Smith is not coming back as a regular in season 2 and Fish is not a canon character, so they needed to write her out so Penguin could start his reign.  But really, they could have scripted that final scene to make it more believable.  It's also kind of dismaying that she survived most of the second half of the season locked up in Dr. Frankenstein's asylum, gets a freaky new eye, makes a daring escape, adopts a new punk look, and kills Maroni, only to be gone for good a few minutes later. (unless of course she survives the fall and makes guest appearances now and then)  The show seemed intent on getting rid of all the big power players by the end of the first season, when this series is supposed to be a prequel.  I would have thought that Penguin's ascension would have been more gradual, and that we wouldn't see the landscape of Gotham start to look like the comics until maybe season 3.

 

Jim's comments to Falcone made him sound too much like he was too complicit with this mob boss.  "Gotham needs you".  Really?

 

Good developments were the beginning of Nygma's metamorphosis into Riddler, and Bruce discovering what I can only assume is the Bat Cave.

Edited May 5, 2015 by Dobian

[Milz]

 

I wonder if Penguin and his mom used to watch their Titanic DVD together a lot.

 

It was probably VHS and they wore the tape out watching it so many times. ;-) Can't wait until next season when he gives his Mama a big ol' blue heart necklace, which she drops into the Gotham River during the season finale.

 

I suppose Bruce will install poles behind the fireplace when Dick Grayson comes along.

Edited May 5, 2015 by Milz

[Latverian Diplomat]

Babs killing her parents, come on.  I can buy her  being so shell-shocked and needing to save herself that she would give up a name to the Ogre, but you don't go from being a civilized person to a Manson family member just because you were kept captive for a few days.  

I could see her delusionally thinking she killed her parents, even though the Ogre really did, but I agree I don't think that's what they were going for.

[Artsda]

Really liked this finale.

 

Is Barbara dead?

 

Batcave!  Loved Alfred's telling a kid not to press the button, that wasn't going to happen. lol

[maczero]

I liked it. A lot.

 

Now I'm embarrassed.

 

You're not alone.  I love that they just went balls to the wall with how crazy everyone was.  That's what this show needs to set itself apart from other crime dramas.

So Falcone knew Jim's dad? That seemed a little shoe-horned in.

 

No it wasn't.  Falcone told Jim that he was close friends with Jim's dad when Falcone first meets Gordon.

Edited May 5, 2015 by maczero

[Puffaroo]

Was that Prokofiev playing when the fireplace moved?

 

Yes!  Some of my favorite music!

 

So the big finale moment is Bruce/Alfred finding the batcave.  You know, the thing that all the damn previews were showing.  Nice going, Fox.

 

One big reason I don't watch the previews.

 

Apparently you never saw the series ender of "Buffy the Vampire Slayer" That one is still the reigning champion of suck....12 years later.

 

 

Different squids for different kids.  I *floved* the end of Buffy and rank it right up there with Six Feet Under.

 

I believe it was Grieg's "The Hall of the Mountain King". Which, for a cavern, would be perfect!

 

Nope, sorry -- Prokofiev's Dance of the Knights -- the ballroom scene -- from Romeo and Juliet:

 

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=cFkZQ84YDlk

[paigow]

There is probably a sketch book of costume iterations by Thomas Wayne...."Romeo - Yellow Knight ...hhmmmm...nah!" "Darker...Darker...."

Does this make Butch Kate Winslet?

Oswald's Mom = Celine Dion

[Perfect Xero]

This was the sort of finale that I'd expect from a show that had been suddenly cancelled mid-season and had to wrap up all their ongoing plot lines in one episode.

 

In the span of one episode Selina meets Fish and becomes her pet to the point that she's hunting down Gordon so Fish can murder him.

 

Nygma has a psychotic break and goes full on Riddler.

 

Barbara reveals that she's become a serial killer, but is beat down and caught by Lee.

 

Penguin takes out both Maroni and Fish and declares himself king of Gotham.

 

Falcone goes from feared mob boss ready to take on any challenge to his power to deciding to retire and symbolically turns the city over to Gordon.

 

And Bruce discovers the Batcave.

 

This show had a full first season pickup and got renewed for Season 2 early, there's no reason that all these character arcs should have been so rushed.

[Philbert]

 

Jim's comments to Falcone made him sound too much like he was too complicit with this mob boss.  "Gotham needs you".  Really?

 

Oh trust me, he wasn't wrong. Don't believe me? Remember that little country called, I..R...A...something or other? The one that was under the heel of a brutal criminal regime? The one that got knocked over by a certain would be crusader? Go poll the people of that particular desert country and ask them if they are better off now that they were when "Don" Hussein was running things. Penguin was correct in his 'dying' speech to Jim in the pilot. The city is going to run red with blood in season two and Gotham's gonna burn. The various Falcone and Maroni capos are going to be knocking each other off right and left while Oswald keeps lighting matches and the corrupt police commissioner and Mayor fiddle while Gotham burns. Nobody's in charge anymore. The Wayne's are dead. Maroni is dead. Fish is dead (or as good as) and Falcone is out of the game. We are well on the way to the descent into Hell that Gotham became before Batman was born.

[Rambler]

I could buy that city officials might switch to Maroni, thinking he's got the upperhand. After all, all season long, people have been describing Falcone as weak. He nearly was overthrown by Fish earlier. He basically had to concede power to Maroni over Arkham. And to paraphrase the Godfather, if the old man dies after the hit, his family loses all the judges and politicians in his pocket. And as Falcone himself concedes in the end, his heart wasn't in trying to run Gotham anymore.

 

I don’t follow the comics so I may be getting this wrong, but I thought from watching previous episodes that the reason Falcone had so much power was because he had an unstoppable bald headed killing machine in his employ. Where the hell was he? Did I miss an episode where he was killed/arrested/retired to Boca?

 

Penguin’s plan seemed a little bit flawed from the beginning. The only reason he was alive was because Falcone made a deal with Maroni to give him access to a judge. If Penguin kills Falcone first, there is nothing stopping Maroni from killing him. It appears that Penguin isn't the brightest bulb on the tree…

[Chicago Redshirt]

I don’t follow the comics so I may be getting this wrong, but I thought from watching previous episodes that the reason Falcone had so much power was because he had an unstoppable bald headed killing machine in his employ. Where the hell was he? Did I miss an episode where he was killed/arrested/retired to Boca?

 

Penguin’s plan seemed a little bit flawed from the beginning. The only reason he was alive was because Falcone made a deal with Maroni to give him access to a judge. If Penguin kills Falcone first, there is nothing stopping Maroni from killing him. It appears that Penguin isn't the brightest bulb on the tree…

 

Zzazz and the Zzazzettes were busy recording a new album. Seriously, though, Zzazz was portrayed as Falcone's right-hand man, but far from the only reason that he remained in power. I'll fanwank that for whatever reason, they were involved in other strikes against Maroni and left their boss unprotected. 

 

Heck, maybe they too saw that the writing was on the wall for Falcone and defected to Maroni's camp. 

 

In terms of Penguin's plan, I presume it was "lay low and let Maroni and Falcone take each other out or at least whittle each other down, then pick off the survivor(s)." The problem with that as far as we have seen Penguin's only staunch ally was Butch, and even Butch's loyalty was based on being hypmo-tized. So trying to take the remains of either Maroni's organization or Falcone's would have posed a challenge for his two-man crew and their one (as far as we know) territory of the Umbrella Club. But maybe it was craftier than that -- like using a well-planned series of leaks to Jim or calling on his favor(s) to get the cops to go after his rivals. 

[Lazlo]

Holy moly, that was something...

I'm torn on Barbara's shift into outright psychotic. On the one hand it was seriously fun and actually fits well with a lot of the vibes I've got from Barbara over the season. I could be very happy with her as a villain.

On the other hand I'm a huge Batgirl fan and it's hard to see how Babs comes into existance in this reality.

[Jodithgrace]

You know what was missing from the fight scenes in this episode? Big cartoon balloons saying things like "Pow!" and "Zap!"

 

I can't imagine why Lee though it was even marginally appropriate for her to council Barbara. 

 

What was that room in the hospital where Falcone ended up? The horror movie room? What kind of hospital has a room that looks like it's been abandoned for 50 years? When Penguin opened that drawer I was surprised that the instruments weren't old and rusty.

 

I understand that Penguin walks "funny" because he was injured. However is it also necessary for him to wear giant clown shoes? Are they, perhaps, therapeutic? 

 

I don't think that Barbara was turned Psycho by her kidnapping experience. I think Jason recognized her as a fellow Psycho right from the get go, and she loved it. 

 

At any rate, the episode was a mess, but I was entertained. I'll miss Maroni and his weird way of speaking. I won't miss Fish. 

[Philbert]

 

I can't imagine why Lee though it was even marginally appropriate for her to council Barbara.

 

I don't think she did. She was clearly trying to back out of it and Barbara insisted on it. IIRC Jim was also giving her the "oh, go ahead and listen to the loon for an hour or so" look. Probably both felt it was the least they could do for her considering what she had just gone through.

 

Little did they realize :)

Edited May 6, 2015 by Philbert

[Danielg342]

"Don't press that button! It could be a bloody bomb!"

 

You know, Alfred, it would have been a lot more fun if it was a bomb. Just so I could blow up this stinker of a mess that started with so much promise.

 

I mean...seriously. This episode sure did fly but did any of it matter? Did any of it really explain anything in the end? Does it make sense? Do I make sense?

 

The best way to describe this debacle is that I feel I've just watched the season finale of a completely different show. There was lots of pandering, lots of posturing and a heck of a lot of people with urgency...but, considering that the past 21 episodes didn't set up any of that, it was just a wild goose chase that led to...nothing. Absolutely nothing.

 

Oh, so Carmine Falcone's empire is falling apart, and Gotham needs it to stay alive if it is to have any hope? Sure guys, I'd buy that if I had seen Falcone display any kind of actual power. For a crime boss, he sure doesn't seem to know what is going on- he's always two steps behind, never seems to have a plan and trusts his underlings way too much. This episode was a perfect example of that- Falcone thinks of a "safe house" he can go to only to forget that Fish already double-crossed him before and knew about that warehouse already. I also wonder why he was relieved to see Oswald walk in to his hospital room- Ozzie, too, has been duplicitous with you, so why, in the middle of a shootout, would you not think that maybe he's got something to do with it to?

 

The problems here don't just start with this episode- they go right to the beginning. I don't think there has ever been a time in Season 1 where Falcone seemed to be in control of anything, let alone his empire. Right from the get-go people were plotting against him and things were actually done to his businesses- big strikes even- without anything ever "spurring" it (making it seem like stuff like this "always" happens), and without Falcone ever meting an effective response. Falcone was also in the background far too often this season- I get that it was supposed to display some kind of "ominous" role, but after a while, I just forgot about him. It's not enough to declare everyone in Gotham are his puppets if you never see the puppetmaster at work.

 

Just once, I would have loved to have seen Falcone and his deputy react to something that happened, or have a concern and actually plot out that response. Then we actually see that response play out, first with the responses being effective only for them to get less so as the season wore on. The only time he ever really dealt with a threat was with Fish trying to steal his money, and that was handled in a very cursory manner, with the effects undone way too quickly; never mind that previously, Falcone's control was tenuous at best.

 

Then of course there's Falcone's underlings as well. I don't think there was a single named underling of Falcone who didn't seem to drop their loyalties at a drop of a hat. Why, exactly? A simple lust for power? Money? Fame? Banion's serving of pasta? For all the talk of Falcone being this powerful boss who needs to be feared, there was no sense of that during the actual show. In fact, Falcone seemed to be fair, even if he was heavy-handed, and seemed to allow a great deal of autonomy in his charges- I can't understand why anyone had a real reason to rise up against him. If they did, the show sure didn't explain why.

 

Maroni, on the other hand, who seemed to meddle quite a bit and had a propensity for micromanaging- I could see people wanting to rise up against him, because he doesn't seem to treat anyone well. Of course, I have a hard time believing a guy as reckless as him would even rise to the position of mob boss to begin with, because something like that requires self-control and Maroni doesn't seem to have it.

 

(His death, though, was actually kind of cool since it was so unexpected- and deserved, since he basically goaded Fish into shooting him. On a better written show, I'd say he actually meant for that to happen but after this crass affair, I'm not sure I can trust the writers anymore)

 

More importantly- and essentially what was wrong with this episode- was the premise was completely and utterly wrong. Throughout this season, no one seemed to have any actual control over Gotham. All year we were led to believe that Falcone and Maroni divided Gotham and the two of them had a "cold war" thing going on, with each side being careful not to provoke the other side. Then, all of a sudden, in this episode we're supposed to believe that Falcone's been pulling the strings in Gotham all this time and, now that he's under attack, we need to rush to save his empire before chaos ensues? Give me a break...not buying any of that.

 

This ain't the first time Falcone and Maroni broke into a war at a moment's notice- "Penguin's Umbrella", before which the series had been excellently plotted, was based on the same premise, as were a few other episodes following. What makes this war all that different? Because Fish came back? She was already fighting the war. What separated this dust up from the other dust ups we'd seen before? Because this was "the season finale" and "anyone could die"?

 

Bor-ing.

 

This could have been so much better if the story was sold for what it was- just a straight-up gang battle- and focused on that, with the GCPD working both sides in a vain attempt to keep the peace. We could have also seen Oswald Cobblepot do what he does best- double cross people- and take a "divide and conquer" approach, playing both factions off against each other and whittling each side down to the point where neither could provide him much resistance. Then, at the end, when he's finally offed his main rivals- Maroni and Fish- for power and is about to do in Falcone (who had been unharmed all episode until Oswald gets to him and injures him badly), it becomes Falcone's turn to double cross him by declaring his retirement, something Oswald buys because Falcone realizes he's got nothing left not just in resources but also physically as well. Perhaps then, at the hospital, Falcone, recovering with Lee's help, receives a visit from Jim where he passes along his knife, realizing that the crime world had- believably- gotten out of control and that Gotham "needs a lawman" (Jim) to save it. We'd still have the Season 2 the writers seem to want- Oswald at the top, but shakily holding on to power, since Oswald needs to "rebuild" things- but now we'd have a finale that more closely resolves what I've seen this season, not what Bruno Heller thinks I've seen.

 

There were some moments I liked- I think Barbara is going down a path I really like, and her scenes, believe it or not, were actually my favourite, since they were the only ones that actually made sense. She's well on her way to being a full-on baddie and I love it. I just hope they'll actually explore it in Season 2, instead of shoving her to the background like they did this year.

 

Bruce...cool to finally see what will become "The Batcave". I, for one, would actually be interested in learning more about Thomas' secrets- but with the appropriate attention paid to them. I don't want the writers glossing over things like they did this year.

 

Overall. Brutal. Absolutely brutal. One of the worst hours of television this year. This show is going to have to do a lot to keep me invested come September.

[Chaos Theory]

I don't think that Barbara was turned Psycho by her kidnapping experience. I think Jason recognized her as a fellow Psycho right from the get go, and she loved it. 

 

That's how I was reading it two.   Jason wasn't trying to control her he was giving her permission to be who she was.  

 

I can't imagine why Lee though it was even marginally appropriate for her to council Barbara.

 

 

She tried to bow out but Barbara kinda forced the issue and I guess Leslie (and Jim) kinda just thought one session and then we'll figure something else out later.  It isn't like it was formal or anything either.  Just a talk between girlfriends......that got slightly out of hand.  

Edited May 6, 2015 by Chaos Theory

[Danielg342]

I tell you, the first villain that learns not to monologue and just DO the thing? Is going to own the freaking city.

 

Yeah, I can't tell how many times I lost count of thinking "just shoot him already". Falcone on the hospital bed was the worst- here was the guy, completely helpless, as the Penguin walks in, with Maroni's men on his tail...and the Penguin thinks its time for some surgery? Shoot him, get it done with and escape, Oswald!

[Actionmage]

Loeb only has 4 guys with him to confront Gordon.  You'd figure Loeb would want more backup, he knows Jim, he knows Jim was highly decorated special forces, and still only brings 4 average mooks.  Yeah, cause you don't want more guys when confronting someone who's actually trained in multiple forms of unarmed combat, and weapons.

 

I kept yelling for Jim to go all Office Ninja on their asses!   He's been in that particular sitch before and came out good. 

 

I was also relieved that he took the downed mobsters' weapons and used them! It seems like a common sense thing, but it doesn't seem to happen much on the shows I watch. 

 

The penthouse set. I love it.

 

Who gets custody of it now? I hope Selina and Ivy. ( I don't know why, but seeing Ivy so sad and bedraggled has stayed with me.  I just want to get her somewhere consistently warm and with a decent amount of food.)

[Perfect Xero]

Honestly, I think that a good lawyer could get Barbara off and she's rich so she can hire some really good lawyers. The only evidence they have that Barbara attacked first is Lee's word. Barbara is the one who ended up eating most of the damage in the confrontation.

 

Her lawyer could spin the story that Lee attacked Barbara out of jealousy and made up the story about Barbara attacking her when Gordon and Bullock walked in on her. It could very well be enough to build reasonable doubt in a jury.

[immortalfrieza]

Yeah, I can't tell how many times I lost count of thinking "just shoot him already". Falcone on the hospital bed was the worst- here was the guy, completely helpless, as the Penguin walks in, with Maroni's men on his tail...and the Penguin thinks its time for some surgery? Shoot him, get it done with and escape, Oswald!

That seems to be a thing with comic books in particular and thus no surprise to see it in a show based off a comic book.

 

Harley: Why don't ya just shoot him?

Joker: Just shoot him? Know this my sweet, the death of Batman must be nothing less than a masterpiece! The triumph of my sheer comic genius over his RIDICULOUS MASK AND GADGETS!!!

 

Of course, the real reason is that a lot of writers are pretty terrible at making both good guys and bad guys smart at the same time so they throw in crap like this because it's the only way they can think of to keep them both around, it's the same reason why so many heroes never kill villains no matter how many times they break out of jail, so they don't have to come up with a new villain every week.

 

 

Props for killing Maroni. I thought that he was protected by plot armor because in most of the previous incarnations of the character, he lives to give Harvey Dent his infamous acid wash well after Batman's all growed up. Maybe that means that people are less safe than one might think.

Or maybe it means we'll be seeing Don Maroni Jr. and Falcone Jr. sometime in the future, similar to what they did when they had Black Mask. Yet, it would be interesting if they don't follow the plotted line very closely.

 

 

I kinda hate it that like in so many incarnations of the Bat-mythos, Martha Wayne doesn't really do anything but die.

Hell, I hate it that like in so many incarnations of the Bat-mythos both Thomas and Martha Wayne don't really do anything but die. I feel like this show missed a grand opportunity to have Bruce's parents around for a while, give them a chance to form into likeable characters and have a chance to show Bruce as a happy, normal kid (for a rich kid) and give their inevitable deaths some meaning, maybe allow the audience to better identify with Bruce's pain, and give us something to contrast Bruce with his later obsessive and moody personality instead of just being fridged right off.

 

Last I checked, Leslie was the M.E. Why is she supposed to have any sort of professional relationship with Barbara, who is living?

Lee was a doctor in Arkham when Jim met her though, which would probably include at least some study in psychiatry like she said. As others have said, the only reason she did it was because Barbara kept forcing the issue.

 

 

And how is it possible that Barbara killed her parents without having blood all over her?

Barbara did have some blood on her, not much though. Still, I don't think Barbara actually did kill her parents, she's just suffered a psychotic break with a dose of Stockholm syndrome as a result of her experience with the Ogre that has convinced her that she did. It certainly doesn't help that he forced her to choose who to kill and she now has to live with the guilt that she chose her parents either.

Edited May 6, 2015 by immortalfrieza

[Trini]

 

I feel like this show missed a grand opportunity to have Bruce's parents around for a while, give them a chance to form into likeable characters and have a chance to show Bruce as a happy, normal kid (for a rich kid) and give their inevitable deaths some meaning, maybe allow the audience to better identify with Bruce's pain, and give us something to contrast Bruce with his later obsessive and moody personality instead of just being fridged right off.

 

That would've been nice; but even if they still killed them off from the start, I'm baffled as to why a whole season has gone by and we know almost nothing about the Waynes themselves.

Edited May 6, 2015 by Trini

[Snookums]

Erin is very good at playing psycho.

 

 

She was, and the lighting in that scene was terrific. She looked like a Halloween pumpkin carving of herself.

[APSimpson]

Everything with Bruce and Alfred, if anything this should have been a two hour event and they should have had more focus. Gotham has too many storylines to cram everything in to forty five minutes.

Fish's death was...anticlimactic to say the least. Like I said last week, if she's going to be on the screen she needed to add to the show. I guess it's a moot point now since Jada is done, but it's still disappointing.

 

From the preview, I was hoping we'd get to see Alfred and Bruce adventurously explore what's behind the fireplace, but they left that for the very end. Still, that was my favorite part of this episode, when Bruce figured out the clue. A two hour finale would have been nice, but it looks like we'll have to wait for them exploring the "Bat cave" next season. Of all the story-lines in Gotham, Bruce and Alfred are my favorite.

 

Is it confirmed that Jada is done? I thought she mentioned that it would be up to the fans or something like that. After all, she did fall in water, and she did survive being shot during the helicopter getaway, so she seems like a survivor. If she is done, though, I hope she has a change of heart and could perhaps make a surprise appearance next season.

 

"Don't press that button! It could be a bloody bomb!"

 

The problems here don't just start with this episode- they go right to the beginning. I don't think there has ever been a time in Season 1 where Falcone seemed to be in control of anything, let alone his empire. Right from the get-go people were plotting against him and things were actually done to his businesses- big strikes even- without anything ever "spurring" it (making it seem like stuff like this "always" happens), and without Falcone ever meting an effective response. Falcone was also in the background far too often this season- I get that it was supposed to display some kind of "ominous" role, but after a while, I just forgot about him. It's not enough to declare everyone in Gotham are his puppets if you never see the puppetmaster at work.

 

It's funny because when Alfred said that I was thinking the same thing, but immediately knew how that wouldn't make sense. LOL

 

The thing about Falcone, is that in the beginning, he had this intimidating presence about him. He just seemed like this Kingpin figure who had the police force bought off and was the untouchable boss of Gotham. The scene where Jim and Bullock are hanging upside down from the meat hooks about to be killed (by Butch I think) and then Falcone comes in and saves them, also added to his mystique of power. And then Zsasz showing up at the station to bring in Jim and the ensuing shootout and most if not all of the cops didn't help him. I think it all added to the perception of Falcone's power. And watching Fish try to plot against him I just knew she would fail because I bought into Falcone's mystique, and I have to admit, I didn't like him, and that's credit to the actor who I think played him in a very smooth but intimidating way.

[Danielg342]

That seems to be a thing with comic books in particular and thus no surprise to see it in a show based off a comic book.

Harley: Why don't ya just shoot him?

Joker: Just shoot him? Know this my sweet, the death of Batman must be nothing less than a masterpiece! The triumph of my sheer comic genius over his RIDICULOUS MASK AND GADGETS!!!

Of course, the real reason is that a lot of writers are pretty terrible at making both good guys and bad guys smart at the same time so they throw in crap like this because it's the only way they can think of to keep them both around, it's the same reason why so many heroes never kill villains no matter how many times they break out of jail, so they don't have to come up with a new villain every week.

Absolutely, I agree with you on all that. I guess I was hoping for a more “realistic” portrayal of that ethos. As you said, it's pure lazy writing to invoke that trope just to ensure someone's survival- you'd think that someone as smart as Oswald (at least) would be practical about it.

I do suppose one logical explanation for the monologuing is that the villains are wrapped up in the “excitement” of the impending kill- this ain't your average mook we're talking about but their most hated enemy, Falcone. Of course, I also think that to be a good crime boss, one must be able to contain their emotions, and no one seems to be good at that.

Hell, I hate it that like in so many incarnations of the Bat-mythos both Thomas and Martha Wayne don't really do anything but die. I feel like this show missed a grand opportunity to have Bruce's parents around for a while, give them a chance to form into likeable characters and have a chance to show Bruce as a happy, normal kid (for a rich kid) and give their inevitable deaths some meaning, maybe allow the audience to better identify with Bruce's pain, and give us something to contrast Bruce with his later obsessive and moody personality instead of just being fridged right off.

I was okay with the story the way it was presented this season, although I do agree, it might have been nice to see Thomas and Martha Wayne around for this season (at least) before their inevitable deaths). This way the Waynes could have had more to do and allow Bruce to grow at his own pace, instead of thrusting the kid into the spotlight at once.

In fact, it might have made for an interesting battle- the Waynes (good) vs. Falcone/Maroni (bad)- and made for a more believable descent into chaos. I believe the way the show was set up, the Waynes were supposed to be the counterbalance to the gangs, and their disappearance meant that the gangs could take over and run roughshod over the lawful side. It would have been nice to have seen this “balance” play out, just so we get a sense to how precarious things really are in Gotham- and how much worse things can really get.

It's funny because when Alfred said that I was thinking the same thing, but immediately knew how that wouldn't make sense. LOL

The thing about Falcone, is that in the beginning, he had this intimidating presence about him. He just seemed like this Kingpin figure who had the police force bought off and was the untouchable boss of Gotham. The scene where Jim and Bullock are hanging upside down from the meat hooks about to be killed (by Butch I think) and then Falcone comes in and saves them, also added to his mystique of power. And then Zsasz showing up at the station to bring in Jim and the ensuing shootout and most if not all of the cops didn't help him. I think it all added to the perception of Falcone's power. And watching Fish try to plot against him I just knew she would fail because I bought into Falcone's mystique, and I have to admit, I didn't like him, and that's credit to the actor who I think played him in a very smooth but intimidating way.

I grant that Falcone had a domineering presence, and I don't really doubt that Falcone was a powerful man in control of a vast empire. What I do doubt is this idea the finale brought up that Falcone controlled Gotham, because not once was that ever really established.

All season long, what we've seen is Falcone and Maroni engaging in a “cold war”, where both tried to precariously leverage their position while being mindful of what the other would or could do. Neither party, really, exhibited control or power over the other, with both sides being sold as practically equals. We saw this as far back as “Arkham”, the first time Falcone and Maroni really squared off, with the Mayor having to come in and mediate a resolution to the conflict, which was really about maintaining “the status quo” (which at the time was about the two of them being in balance with each other, with no one party dominating the other). Later in the season, when Oswald's club goes “dry”, Oswald is forced to go to a warehouse owned by Maroni with heavy weaponry before Butch intervenes and brings in cops to wrest the liquor away. If, as Gordon stated, Falcone had been “in power” until the finale, then neither of those two scenarios would have happened- the Mayor would have instantly sided with Falcone and Maroni would have given up his liquor, perhaps with a few questions but not as much struggle as was presented. There was also never a point where Falcone ever projected his power over Maroni- he always acted like a buddy to him and always compromised with him. Not once did Falcone ever impose something on Maroni and it stuck, which wouldn't happen if Maroni was under Falcone's watch.

The only time I would say that Falcone actually presented having “actual” power was with Fish, because in the Pilot, when Oswald- then just a simple mook- betrayed the “family”, Fish ordered his demise, no questions asked. However, even then things took a turn for the worse, because Fish almost instantaneously transformed into a rival against Falcone, without anything really triggering that. Yeah, Fish was also a megalomaniac, but she was a megalomaniac with a brain, one that seemed to understand that she lived pretty comfortably under Falcone. So why did she feel the need to strike against him? We never did know and that's the real problem.

What I would have liked is, early on (if the show really wanted to portray Falcone as king), if Falcone was seen bossing everyone- including the Mayor, Maroni, Fish, his underlings, even Essen- and, in these early stages, they all followed along with what he said, even if it is just grudgingly. As the first half of the season draws to a close, we could have a few factions want to challenge Falcone, and we'd believe the reasons for wanting a revolt because we actually saw Falcone's power in action. The second half could have seen this revolt taken place, with the finale being its successful resolution- which could still produce the finale I saw, since it more closely approximates this situation than the season I actually saw.

[Jodithgrace]

I thing I keep forgetting to mention..who was that "woman" in the elevator? I am referring to the photo that is the screen capture for this episode. She looks like Peter Scolari in drag..and i kept expecting her to do something, reveal herself to be Loeb or..something. But nada. Every time I see that photo it bugs me. I guess she was just an extra who decided to go the extra mile to get noticed. (at least by me)

[Chicago Redshirt]

One of the things that made the latest confrontation between Falcone and Maroni more serious than the previous ones was that Penguin got Maroni to believe that Falcone was coming for him personally. It's one thing to go after a person's turf, or his minions. It's another to go after the boss himself. So that presumably escalated Maroni's response dramatically. There's no prospect of a sit-down to resolve that issue.

 

Contemplating Don Maroni and Don Falcone Jr. brings back bad flashbacks of the "Jimmy Olsen" from Smallville really being "Henry James Olsen" who has a little cousin Jimmy Olsen. Yuck.

 

I'd say Falcone was portrayed as having power in various episodes. He basically openly talked about killing cops in front of the mayor and the mayor was like la-la-la I can't hear you. He all but told Jim to stick the warrant he got up his ass and that he was lucky that he wasn't going to kill him, Bullock and Barbara. His hitman and woman can literally walk into a police station and tell the officers to screw off and they do. He can tell his lieutenants he's going to up the taxes on them and they still are going to pay. 

 

I seem to remember seeing something about Jada tweeting that she wasn't going to be in S2. So there are some big dentures to fill (for chewing scenery).

 

Re: Thomas and Martha, at least in some of the recent Bat-versions, Bruce draws specific inspiration from Thomas. In the Nolan movies, it's his dad's saying about why we fall (so we can pick ourselves up) that is featured prominently as well as getting confirmation from Alfred that he's very much his father's son. In Long Halloween, when Bats is forced to fight like 6 of his villains, he credits his dad's teaching about being methodical in facing a difficult problem with getting him through. I can't think of anything that Martha has done in any incarnation besides leave her pearls splayed over Crime Alley. 

[jhlipton]

I liked it, and I'll be back for whatever Looney Tunes they deam up next.
 

Ed? Are they implying that Nygma has Dissociative Identity Disorder? Then, yeah, killing Doughtery was totally the incident that started him into worse behavior. He had a side that seemed to be very angry at Ms. Kringle.  Maybe his riddle-appreciative side was/will be a kind of peacemaker identity between his nicer identity and his angrier one?

I loved that he realized that leaving a clue was dumb, bu that he just can't help it. It explains why he leaves a clue.Every. Single. Time.
 
 

I tell you, the first villain that learns not to monologue and just DO the thing? Is going to own the freaking city.

Supervillains wouldn't be supervillains if they could resist gloating and twisting the knife.

Yep, it wouldn't be a "comic book show" if the villains didn't monologue.
 

Babs killing her parents, come on.  I can buy her  being so shell-shocked and needing to save herself that she would give up a name to the Ogre, but you don't go from being a civilized person to a Manson family member just because you were kept captive for a few days.  And it's not like he did anything especially horrific to her during those days, like you've seen done to some real kidnap victims.

I think Barbara only had a shell of a civilized person and was only waiting for someone like the Ogre to break her free. That didn't bother me at all.

[Actionmage]

I kinda hate it that like in so many incarnations of the Bat-mythos, Martha Wayne doesn't really do anything but die.

 

That would've been nice; but even if they still killed them off from the start, I baffled as to why a whole season has gone by and we know almost nothing about the Waynes themselves.

 

I can't think of anything that Martha has done in any incarnation besides leave her pearls splayed over Crime Alley.

 

Maybe in this iteration Martha can actually be revealed as actively trying to help Thomas with Wayne Enterprises as well as secretly doing good. It doesn't have to be vigilante-ing, but maybe something that The Evil Board didn't like but couldn't really do anything about.

 

Also, we have had various folks talk about Thomas, but where are Martha's friends/co-workers/other ladies who lunch?

[Delphi]

In the comics Martha was heavily involved in philanthropic and charity work in Gotham. She handled all of Wayne enterprise's charity functions, so I assume that the charity ball a few episodes ago was done because of her. Thomas was always busy with the business or the hospital.

She was also very dedicated to the arts and in trying to help the poverty struck children of the city.

I'd always assumed that that's why the Wayne's went to a theatre in Park Row to begin with, that it had something to do with Martha's charity work.

[Philbert]

 

In the comics Martha was heavily involved in philanthropic and charity work in Gotham. She handled all of Wayne enterprise's charity functions, so I assume that the charity ball a few episodes ago was done because of her. Thomas was always busy with the business or the hospital.

 

I think this has actually been referenced on the show but only in passing...

[Milz]

You know what was missing from the fight scenes in this episode? Big cartoon balloons saying things like "Pow!" and "Zap!"

 

Don't forget the the campy, fight music supplied by the Nelson Riddle Orchestra.

 

 

Lee was a doctor in Arkham when Jim met her though, which would probably include at least some study in psychiatry like she said. As others have said, the only reason she did it was because Barbara kept forcing the issue.

 

Psychiatric hospitals have 2 kinds of physicians: psychiatrists and 'general medical' physicians. The shrinks take care of the psychiatric problems. The general medical physicians take care of medical problems like diabetes, high cholesterol, asthma,  sore throats, runny noses, etc. I presume StupidLee was a general medical physician at Arkham,  taking care of the patient's general medical problems, not their psychiatric problems.

[Philbert]

 

Psychiatric hospitals have 2 kinds of physicians: psychiatrists and 'general medical' physicians. The shrinks take care of the psychiatric problems. The general medical physicians take care of medical problems like diabetes, high cholesterol, asthma,  sore throats, runny noses, etc. I presume StupidLee was a general medical physician at Arkham,  taking care of the patient's general medical problems, not their psychiatric problems.

 

I think you're right there but really, what reason would either Lee or Jim to have to suspect Barbara of going full out psycho on her? As far as anybody knew, Barbara was the victim in all of this (and to be honest, I'm still not sure if she actually slashed her parents-I think she's internalizing her own guilt for having served them up on a plate to the Ogre) and since Jim had a relationship with her, why not a quick little informal counseling session with a referral to an actual counselor down the road.  Of course WE all knew she was going to snap because hey, it's Gotham and that's what people do here. The characters in the storyline....not so much.

Edited May 7, 2015 by Philbert

[jhlipton]

From the recap:

It's a sweet moment on the balcony of the woman Falcone kidnapped and threatened to murder in order to prevent Gordon from arresting him just a few months ago.

Details, details, details!

[thuganomics85]

It's a sweet moment on the balcony of the woman Falcone kidnapped and threatened to murder in order to prevent Gordon from arresting him just a few months ago.

Details, details, details!

 

 

Hey, when that woman ends up going crazy, and almost killing your saner girlfriend who used to be on Firefly, there is no point holding a grudge.  It's not personal; it's just business!  And, wasn't the only reason Falcone captured Barbara, because she came back to try and "reason" with him?  At this point, I would blame Falcone for not holding her hostage.

Edited May 7, 2015 by thuganomics85

[jhlipton]

Hey, when that woman ends up going crazy, and almost killing your saner girlfriend who used to be on Firefly, there is no point holding a grudge.  It's not personal; it's just business!  And, wasn't the only reason Falcone captured Barbara, because she came back to try and "reason" with him?  At this point, I would blame Falcone for not holding her hostage.

 

Yep.  I wonder what would have happened if Falcone kept Barbara -- if he was her mentor instead of The Ogre.

[Shanna]

Psychiatric hospitals have 2 kinds of physicians: psychiatrists and 'general medical' physicians. The shrinks take care of the psychiatric problems. The general medical physicians take care of medical problems like diabetes, high cholesterol, asthma, sore throats, runny noses, etc. I presume StupidLee was a general medical physician at Arkham, taking care of the patient's general medical problems, not their psychiatric problems.

Psychiatrists are mds with more training in mental health. General medicine physicians have to do a psych rotation I believe and are licensed to prescribe psychiatric drugs.

But this counseling session was very off the books informal, so I took more as a favor just to try to get Barbara to talk to someone.