S30.E10: Bring The Popcorn

[cooksdelight]

 

Ha, Rodney says the auction was "like my coming out party".  WTH.

 

 

Coming out of what? The closet? He finally got a date for the prom? 

[neece26]

 

Will goes on and on about what a victim he is by getting screwed at the auction.  I actually thought his prize was the big twist they've been talking about.  Food for WEEKS?

 

Not sure how he would think he got screwed in any way, shape or form.  They got one meal.  He had enough food to carry him through multiple days.  If I had a choice, I would have opted for that. 

[Drogo]

 

[pennben]

Amen. 

[ghoulina]

I don't quite understand how and when Mike is overhearing all the conversations that other people (Rodney, Will, Carolyn, Tyler) are having.  Is he sneaking around and hiding in the bushes?   Why don't they see him hiding?  Or ... is someone in that group feeding him the information?

 

I seriously think this group just sucks at being discreet. Remember when Joe was trying to share his clue with Tyler? He just openly unfurled it on the beach! Mike does kind of skulk around in the trees and the shadows, and good for him! If these idiots are too dumb to try and hide their comings and goings better, and mute their conversations, so be it. 

 

 

 

When Dan said he loved his wife with the kind of love you see in books, I was thinking he might mean true crime books.

 

Right??? He didn't specify what KIND of book. For all we know, that poor woman is tied up in his basement. 

 

(Okay, I seriously hope that's not the case, but Dan is creepy as fuck.)

Edited April 23, 2015 by ghoulina

[CoyoteBlue]

So you would have been okay with Will (or anyone) walking up to someone who bought food at the auction and demanding a portion of it for himself, and even after he got some, to villify the person who purchased the food for not giving it all to him?

 

Will greets everyone with "Look at what a magnificent bounty I have delivered to all of you!", hoping to get kiss-ass points from people who had already just ate. When someone suggests that he actually eat the damn food he bought, just like everyone else did, he replies along the lines of "No, no, how can I get kiss-ass points unless I have a real sacrifice to hang over your heads?" Well, Will, of course everyone is going to think you held back, because that's how this freaking game started  - people were taken aside in private and given the chance to look generous tor their tribemates while actually shorting them and benefiting themselves. Why is it so unreasonable to assume they'd think the same now? He just threw a tantrum because someone dared not to praise his choice and give him bennies from the act.

[Sentient Meat]

Maybe it's a generational thing, but one thing I've noticed is that what a forty or fifty year old once considered "normal" yelling... my twenty or thirty year old friends consider domestic abuse.  I think it's a good thing that we've changed as a society, and fathers don't go off smacking and screaming at their kids as much as they did during the Mad Men era... but where I come from, it's as bad for to make fun of someone and call them a liar without any evidence as it is for a father to yell at his daughter.

 

I don't even like Will... he's lazy, he flipped on his first alliance and he's bad at challenges.  I also never really disliked Shirin although I see how she could be annoying with prolonged exposure...  but I can see how one could get super pissed if you sacrificed something valuable  (and by Will's size and initial despondency at getting sent away from the auction with nothing, one could assume the food was super valuable to him)  only to find people saying that you chose the good parts and kept them for yourself, and left them with the crummy leftovers.  Do people not see how disrespectful and disappointing this would be on so many levels?

 

Yes Will was wrong to get personal with his attacks... but from what I remember... Shirin said that her father gave her repeated verbal abuse.  This is wrong, but also fairly normal for someone growing up in a Middle Eastern or Asian household.   (I'm Asian myself and grew up in West Los Angeles so I've had a lot of experience with these communities.)  I don't think she said that he hit her or physically abused her but that he yelled at her.  She, on the other hand accused someone who shared his entire share of food of being dishonest without getting any proof.  Why is it okay that she can gang up with others and question his honesty without proof... but he is the anti-christ because he yelled at a woman who was yelled at by her father?  Clearly Shirin also is a strong woman who can take care of herself... as she bravely stood up to him by herself and kept him from receiving his letters from home.

 

I by no means think Will should have yelled at her, nor should he have said such cruel personal things.  But if you call someone dishonest without any proof in front of other people... you should be prepared for the consequences.  I'm only posting this because both are wrong and it seems like way more people are taking Shirin's side because she used trigger words like domestic abuse.

[hacman00]

Too bad Shirin works for Yahoo and not Google.  She could have deleted Will, the Youtube sensation, from existence.

[millennium]

Will greets everyone with "Look at what a magnificent bounty I have delivered to all of you!", hoping to get kiss-ass points from people who had already just ate. When someone suggests that he actually eat the damn food he bought, just like everyone else did, he replies along the lines of "No, no, how can I get kiss-ass points unless I have a real sacrifice to hang over your heads?" Well, Will, of course everyone is going to think you held back, because that's how this freaking game started  - people were taken aside in private and given the chance to look generous tor their tribemates while actually shorting them and benefiting themselves. Why is it so unreasonable to assume they'd think the same now? He just threw a tantrum because someone dared not to praise his choice and give him bennies from the act.

 

As I said before, I'm not defending Will's reaction.   What I'm saying is that asshole Mike and friends had no grounds to act affronted or feel cheated with regards to Will's food.   It wasn't THEIRS.   Will didn't horn in on their shit, they had zero right to lay claim to his.

[pamplemousse]

When did Shirin call Will dishonest re: withholding food? Please someone tell me specifically so I don't have to go back and rewatch parts of this episode. I remember Mike starting the conversation, Jenn adding to it, and Shirin sitting there listening. I remember Jenn grousing that Will probably shared only the food that he didn't want/like. I remember Mike and Jenn on the beach looking for the box with Shirin trailing along. I don't remember Shirin saying anything about Will's dishonesty. Was it in a talking head she gave? My memory's turning to mush apparently.

[CletusMusashi]

I'd like to change my vote rankings, I think if it really came down to a final 2 of Dan and Will, I would vote for Will. Because Will is already a D-list celebrity, so being a "Survivor" winner gives him nothing except money. Dan, meanwhile, would spend the rest of his life strutting around and gloating about being the greatest player of all time. I don't want him to have that. Will is going to dance around on Youtube and think he's awesome no matter what, so whether he wins or not isn't going to improve his happiness quite as much as it would Dan's. I do not want either of them to be happy.

Edited April 24, 2015 by CletusMusashi

[Jersey Guy 87]

 

I by no means think Will should have yelled at her, nor should he have said such cruel personal things.  But if you call someone dishonest without any proof in front of other people... you should be prepared for the consequences.  I'm only posting this because both are wrong and it seems like way more people are taking Shirin's side because she used trigger words like domestic abuse.

 

Exactly.  Shirin (and Mike and Jenn) were wrong in their accusations.  But Will was more wrong in his over the top, personal attack on Shirin and Shirin only.  By being part of the "Will's holding out on all of us" crowd Shirin opened herself to a potential counter-attack.  But Will went beyond the game, hid behind "I'm a good Christian" and "I'm just keeping it real" to show a very, very nasty side.

At this point I'd be willing to just tell Jeff to keep the million himself even though he doesn't need it.  All of these people suck.

[Captain Asshat]

Not that I'm defending Will, but ... it was HIS food.   He bought it with the money the show gave him.

 

No one else was entitled to any of it.

 

Which, if he'd said *that* to Shirin/Mike/Jen, would have been preferable to being so defensive about it that he turned into a horribly mean elementary schooler. They accused him of doing something shady, which he really didn't. But he allowed that accusation to let him act like he'd done something shady, and then he got really nasty about it to the one person he didn't feel would fight back. I think it would have been better game play for him to have said, "Yep, this stuff was waiting for me back at camp. I was deprived of a chance at any other auction item, so yeah...I had some of what was given to me. I'm choosing to share the rest with you."

Edited April 23, 2015 by Captain Asshat

[gesundheit]

  But if you call someone dishonest without any proof in front of other people... you should be prepared for the consequences.  I'm only posting this because both are wrong and it seems like way more people are taking Shirin's side because she used trigger words like domestic abuse.

Speculating that someone is lying in a game where lying is a routine strategy is not a personal affront. It's game play. In literally every single episode of every single season of this show.

 

Telling a competitor in a game show that she has no soul and nobody in the real world loves her is not game play, it's horrible and very disconcerting behavior. Regardless of whether the victim of this verbal assault has experienced any past abuse. I didn't need information about her history to be "on her side."

[Lakewood27]

4. Tyler. I also don't like Tyler. He does want to win, but doesn't seem interested in anything besides that. No sense of fun or humor, no snarky confessionals about how he can't believe how horrible the people in his alliance are but he's stuck with them, no... anything, except "Tylerbot seeks victory. Scanning for allies. Alliance confirmed. Simulate humanization by employing interaction protocol with allies. Refuel with rice. Re-confirm aliances. Power down." What the hell does a robot need with a million dollars? I mean, a cool robot like Bender, sure. But not Tyler.

 

Hahahahaha! So true. Tyler is like that Cowboy who just emerged out of nowhere that one time on Survivor: South Pacific. And when Tyler finally did get screen time, he bored me to tears. He is completely devoid of any type of personality. I find it difficult to root for/against someone who was MIA for half the game. He's a non-entity.

 

Other than horrible Rodney, terrible Mike, and sourface Carolyn, I'm dying to know what the final tribal speeches will be like. It's just a bunch of barnacles. Unless the editors are hiding hours of Yalta Conference-style strategizing between Dan, Sierra, Tyler and Will.

[fishcakes]

Who would have thought there was more nastiness lurking in this crowd.  How was it humanly possible? 

 

Right? A few weeks ago, I was thinking Vince was the worst person this season. Then two weeks ago, I realized Dan was far worse than Vince and maybe the worst person of any season. Now Will is challenging Dan for that title. I'm afraid of what might happen in the next couple of weeks. Attempted murder, maybe.

 

In regards to the attack on Shirin, Carolyn at least seems to be getting a lot of flack for not sticking up for her.  Carolyn says everyone needs to go back and watch and that she'd never stand by and watch someone get bullied.

 

I saw that on her twitter, as well as her retweeting people condemning Will and adding an "agreed!" to it. The thing is -- well, first of all, fuck Carolyn. Let me get that out the way at the outset. Carolyn might not have been present when Will was abusing Shirin, but there's no doubt in my mind that if she had been, she would have done nothing to stop him, nor do I doubt that when that crapweasal Tyler told her about it that she was all shiny-eyed and grinning. She's hated Shirin since early in the season and she's been very vocal about it.

 

As far as I'm concerned, they're ALL to blame for what happened last night; obviously Will deserves the lion's share of it, but they all participated in creating the atmosphere where Shirin was so disregarded and so much on the outside of the group that cowards like Dan and Will feel fine about talking to her the way they do, knowing they won't suffer any repercussions from the other players. What's happening this season looks like the schoolyard dynamic of one person getting singled out for the group's enmity as a way of bonding the group. Usually that person is a little odd or socially awkward or unattractive or something, but the group exaggerates every little thing the person says or does as OMG WORST THING EVER. It's usually more common among children but I've seen it happen in the workplace too and Survivor seems to bring it out in people more than in normal life. It's happened in other seasons (Sierra in Tocantins, Sylvia in Fiji, Sugar in Gabon, Shambo in Samoa -- holy shit, maybe it's the curse of women whose names begin with S) but it's never gone this far before. We've all seen this happen with kids though. Usually there's an event like last night's where the target gets either verbally abused or outright beat up by some shitty kid (who no one really likes either but he's useful for dirty work) to the point where the target runs off crying. Some of the kids will feel genuine remorse, go after the crying kid and, one hopes, learn to be kinder and more empathetic in the future; these would be your Jenns and Mikes. Then you have the ones who double-down on their douchery (Will and Dan) insisting that the other person deserved it, but maybe if their parents (or in this case twitter) demand it, they'll ultimately issue an insincere apology. Then there are the snaky little bastards like Carolyn and Tyler who pretend to be appalled and act like they had nothing to do with it, even though they were cheerleading and instigating the entire time. Finally, you have the really dopey kids, Rodney and Sierra, who have no idea what happened or why because they've eaten too much paste -- okay, I have no idea where these two fit in. Shorter version: worst cast ever.

[Drogo]

Speculating that someone is lying in a game where lying is a routine strategy is not a personal affront. It's game play. In literally every single episode of every single season of this show.

 

Telling a competitor in a game show that she has no soul and nobody in the real world loves her is not game play, it's horrible and very disconcerting behavior. Regardless of whether the victim of this verbal assault has experienced any past abuse. I didn't need information about her history to be "on her side."

 

Exactly. 

 

And everyone knows that when you do nice things (ex: giving away your time with your own loved one so others can have time with their loved ones instead, or jumping into a dingy lake to find someone's bottom teeth) you open yourself up to targeting.  So Will was an idiot for sharing in the first place.  He could have gone back, kept his mouth shut, and everyone would have felt bad for him all day.  And he would have had extra electrolytes and food. 

 

Or if he were really smart, he would have hidden it, then put the jerky in someone's bag when he wanted them out and framed them for hoarding old reward food.  The way John Rocker's girlfriend was doing with trail mix that made everyone hate her. 

[Guest]

As I said before, I'm not defending Will's reaction.   What I'm saying is that asshole Mike and friends had no grounds to act affronted or feel cheated with regards to Will's food.   It wasn't THEIRS.   Will didn't horn in on their shit, they had zero right to lay claim to his.

I would agree but they didn't lay claim to anything or feel cheated, as far as I can tell.  They suspected Will of lying to curry favor, which is part of the game.  Both the lying and suspecting others of lying, that is.  

 

No one even accused Will of anything to his face.  He wouldn't have known if Tyler hadn't told him.  And when he confronted Shirin she didn't say, "You're a liar", she said, "Oh, ok, I believe you."  

[backformore]

They are all emotionally frayed. Getting love from home is poignant for some.  I do wish they would eliminate that though!   As for Mike ruining the moment.  What?  Go take your own moment and make it what you want it to be.  It appeared that they were requested to not read them until they could do it together for filming reasons.  The normal thing to do would be read it the minute you got back to camp but they all sat there holding them.  

But they all wanted to read the letters ON CAMERA, not privately.  they wanted the camera crew to take turns with each of them, so they could cry on cue, show their human, vulnerable sides ON CAMERA.  

 

Yeah, I'm a cynic. Blame reality TV

[enlightenedbum]

I'm trying to think of any cast that had as many unpleasant people as this cast.  Closest is maybe Fiji with Rocky, Alex, and Lisi?  But there were not quite as many awful assholes and there were a larger than usual number of genuinely cool people (Yau, Earl, Michelle) with some additional just nice people (Cassandra) and comically endearing buffoons (Boo) along for the ride.  And the cool people ultimately foiled the assholes in the single best episode this show's ever had.

Edited April 23, 2015 by enlightenedbum

[Sentient Meat]

Speculating that someone is lying in a game where lying is a routine strategy is not a personal affront. It's game play. In literally every single episode of every single season of this show.

 

Telling a competitor in a game show that she has no soul and nobody in the real world loves her is not game play, it's horrible and very disconcerting behavior. Regardless of whether the victim of this verbal assault has experienced any past abuse. I didn't need information about her history to be "on her side."

 

You mean the way they bullied Mike into keeping his word at the auction?  Yes it is all gameplay in theory... but many of these lines are blurred during the course of the game.  Telling someone they have no soul, and someone telling me I'm dishonest is a tomato/tomahto thing in my book.

[gesundheit]

Telling someone they have no soul, and someone telling me I'm dishonest is a tomato/tomahto thing in my book.

If that's virtually the same thing for a someone, that's fine, but they probably shouldn't sign up to participate in a game that typically involves massive amounts of deception and dishonesty. Will has lied in this game. And that's part of it, there's nothing wrong with that. There's also nothing wrong with wondering if someone else is lying.

[scowl]

Speculating that someone is lying in a game where lying is a routine strategy is not a personal affront. It's game play. In literally every single episode of every single season of this show.

I guess you shouldn't play poker with Will or he'll tell you why God hates you when you think he's bluffing.

[Sentient Meat]

If that's virtually the same thing for a someone, that's fine, but they probably shouldn't sign up to participate in a game that typically involves massive amounts of deception and dishonesty. Will has lied in this game. And that's part of it, there's nothing wrong with that. There's also nothing wrong with wondering if someone else is lying.

Remember that I agree with you that Will shouldn't have yelled at her.  In fact, if he was smart he would have just showed the box and started crying and people would have felt sorry for him.  But I'm simply trying to put a little balance into the Shirin vs Will debate as 80 to 90% of the first pages are dedicated to trashing him.

Edited April 23, 2015 by Sentient Meat

[Guest]

But they all wanted to read the letters ON CAMERA, not privately.  they wanted the camera crew to take turns with each of them, so they could cry on cue, show their human, vulnerable sides ON CAMERA.  

 

Yeah, I'm a cynic. Blame reality TV

I honestly don't think the players want it on camera.  They just are not allowed to do anything short of taking a shit (and sometimes not even that) off camera.  It's not like the viewers award them anything.  

[Special K]

Right? A few weeks ago, I was thinking Vince was the worst person this season. Then two weeks ago, I realized Dan was far worse than Vince and maybe the worst person of any season. Now Will is challenging Dan for that title. I'm afraid of what might happen in the next couple of weeks. Attempted murder, maybe.

 

 

I saw that on her twitter, as well as her retweeting people condemning Will and adding an "agreed!" to it. The thing is -- well, first of all, fuck Carolyn. Let me get that out the way at the outset. Carolyn might not have been present when Will was abusing Shirin, but there's no doubt in my mind that if she had been, she would have done nothing to stop him, nor do I doubt that when that crapweasal Tyler told her about it that she was all shiny-eyed and grinning. She's hated Shirin since early in the season and she's been very vocal about it.

 

As far as I'm concerned, they're ALL to blame for what happened last night; obviously Will deserves the lion's share of it, but they all participated in creating the atmosphere where Shirin was so disregarded and so much on the outside of the group that cowards like Dan and Will feel fine about talking to her the way they do, knowing they won't suffer any repercussions from the other players. What's happening this season looks like the schoolyard dynamic of one person getting singled out for the group's enmity as a way of bonding the group. Usually that person is a little odd or socially awkward or unattractive or something, but the group exaggerates every little thing the person says or does as OMG WORST THING EVER. It's usually more common among children but I've seen it happen in the workplace too and Survivor seems to bring it out in people more than in normal life. It's happened in other seasons (Sierra in Tocantins, Sylvia in Fiji, Sugar in Gabon, Shambo in Samoa -- holy shit, maybe it's the curse of women whose names begin with S) but it's never gone this far before. We've all seen this happen with kids though. Usually there's an event like last night's where the target gets either verbally abused or outright beat up by some shitty kid (who no one really likes either but he's useful for dirty work) to the point where the target runs off crying. Some of the kids will feel genuine remorse, go after the crying kid and, one hopes, learn to be kinder and more empathetic in the future; these would be your Jenns and Mikes. Then you have the ones who double-down on their douchery (Will and Dan) insisting that the other person deserved it, but maybe if their parents (or in this case twitter) demand it, they'll ultimately issue an insincere apology. Then there are the snaky little bastards like Carolyn and Tyler who pretend to be appalled and act like they had nothing to do with it, even though they were cheerleading and instigating the entire time. Finally, you have the really dopey kids, Rodney and Sierra, who have no idea what happened or why because they've eaten too much paste -- okay, I have no idea where these two fit in. Shorter version: worst cast ever.

Quoting your whole post because I applaud all your points.  But wanted to comment on the bolded part.

 

Shirin is SO the Piggy of Survivor: Lord of the Flies.

[Trixie Belden]

 

IMO, for Shirin to deserve that sort of treatment from Will, for Shirin to have "started it", she would have had to say something like "Will, I think you got more food than you are sharing because you are a lazy fat ass who would never deny himself a bite of food because if you were to eat less then maybe you would lose your status as the laziest fat-assed man on the island.  And even if you weren't a fat ass, you would still be ugly but you are too stupid to know that,  Just like you think that dancing at a gas station makes you some sort of super hero. If you got your letter from home it would say that your wife is happy you made it this far so that she has more time to sleep with men that are better looking and smarter than you - and there are a lot of them that fit that description."

 

 

 

 

BRAVO!!!  Bra-fucking-O!!!

[Andromeda]

After all these years, seeing different groups of people get all teary at the letters from home, has led me to realize that it is the normal reaction of people playing this game.  They've spent about three weeks with a bunch of people who they can't trust for more than an hour at a time.  Getting to spend a little time with a connection back to the real world, actually does reduce pretty much everyone to tears.

 

I agree that everyone gets teary-eyed for good reason. My issue as a viewer is that it doesn't entertain me in the least. I'd rather have 10 more minutes of game play. At least in last night's episode, some game play happened during the letters from home segment (because of Mike's attempt at trickery and supposed "bad timing" once back at camp), but generally it's a sappy, eye-rolling cryfest. I know I sound heartless, but I just don't care to see it.

[hacman00]

Why didn't Will return his auction item after he "won" it.  It's perfectly legal.  Just ask Carolyn.

[Special K]

I agree that everyone gets teary-eyed for good reason. My issue as a viewer is that it doesn't entertain me in the least.

 

Worse yet, it's embarrassing to watch.  Like teary-eyed Dan and Rodney bumping heads and exchanging, "I love ya bro"s.

Edited April 23, 2015 by Special K

[Sentient Meat]

https://twitter.com/TheTFreddy/status/591256644702457857

[pamplemousse]

Okay, apparently it's going to take a long-ass time for me not to be ticked off about the unfairness of it all. But from the fail!editing, what I remember seeing was a passive Shirin sitting there listening while Mike and Jenn were talking about Will holding back food. Then on the beach she was kind of ambling along with Mike and Jenn while they seemed to be looking for the box. Mike was the ringleader, Jenn was his first deputy, and Shirin looked to me just trailing and going along with them because they were the only ones who treated her decently and they were not in the majority like her. She basically follows anyone who shows her a modicum of kindness and decency and she stays fairly loyal to them. And yet, she gets ALL the blame for calling Will dishonest when she never even flipping did. Not to his face, not even really behind his back that I can remember. So I don't really know why there's stuff being bandied around about Shirin calling Will dishonest and lying about him like she orchestrated and carried out some huge character assassination on him, or is all that stuff just theoretical arguments? 'Cause from what I can remember (and I seriously hope my memory is not that bad), none of that actually happened on the episode that aired.

 

I hope Shirin's boyfriend is a tech whiz, sees this episode, figures out some way to hack into Will's computer(s) and plants some mega effed up super-strength trojan virus. And changes all the videos on his youtube account to ones of paint drying ain't nobody gonna watch that whoops so much for his view counts and 'likes.'

[Andromeda]

Worse yet, it's embarrassing to watch.  Like teary-eyed Dan and Rodney bumping heads and exchanging, "I love ya bro"s.

Embarrassing -- that's a good word for it. I feel like a voyeur during those segments, and a little dirty because I can feel the producer manipulation in exploiting an emotional vulnerability that has zero to do with the game itself.

[hacman00]

 

 

Second - having Dan's advantage be something we have never seen before - a second vote.  People were probably expecting an idol clue or an advantage in a the next challenge.  However, I don't have much faith that Dan will use this advantage wisely.  I can see him splitting his two votes while saying "It is good strategy to split the vote in case someone has an idol."

 

I'd love it if he votes for Mike and Carolyn and they both use their hidden immunity idols and he ends up going home.

Edited April 23, 2015 by hacman00

[Miss Scarlet]

Will's rant to Shirin was the worst thing I've ever seen on this show. I was so disgusted by it that I couldn't concentrate after I saw it.

 

You know it's bad when I'm thinking back to Dan's psycho-killer scene with her in the water and thinking "well, that was horrible, but at least he didn't attack on a personal level".

[ElleryAnne]

And when Tyler finally did get screen time, he bored me to tears. He is completely devoid of any type of personality. I find it difficult to root for/against someone who was MIA for half the game. He's a non-entity.

 

 

That's what frustrates me about him.  At this point, if he wins I won't even know enough about his gameplay to know whether to be annoyed or just indifferent.  (I don't expect to be impressed, though.)  Pretty much the only thing about him that stands out to me is his "I have no idea what's going on," comment - which was humorous but isn't exactly a selling point for why he should win a million bucks in a game of social strategy.

 

 

Telling someone they have no soul, and someone telling me I'm dishonest is a tomato/tomahto thing in my book.

 

 

If they both happen in the game, or both happen in real life, then I can see that.  But Will took accusations about his perceived game dishonesty and hurled vicious personal comments about Shirin's real life in response.  Not cool.

 

 

I'm trying to think of any cast that had as many unpleasant people as this cast.

 

 

Once upon a time, I would have put One World as a contender for that title, since it had Colton and Alicia and Troyzan and Tarzan.  But it also had good players like Kim and funny people like Kat.  This season has its share of unpleasant people, but instead of also having players I can root for and players I can laugh at, it's got players I can feel sorry for and players I forget are there even during their talking heads.  So I think this season wins. (Loses?)

 

 

but generally it's a sappy, eye-rolling cryfest. I know I sound heartless, but I just don't care to see it.

 

 

Then I guess I'm heartless, too.  I don't care whether they get letters from home, and while I completely understand how the letters spur honest emotions from them,  I find it boring to watch them get all weepy over them.  The only thing that made it halfway interesting this time was the added WTFness  of them accusing Mike of spoiling the moment for them.  

[backformore]

Ok - I realize why this episode left  me feeling  sad and angry - 

 

This show has devolved into the same horrible shit that was "Utopia" - a one-season show that was quickly cancelled, with everyone walking away in embarrassment. 

[Guest]

Embarrassing -- that's a good word for it. I feel like a voyeur during those segments, and a little dirty because I can feel the producer manipulation in exploiting an emotional vulnerability that has zero to do with the game itself.

Only to be topped in a few weeks by seeing it tenfold when their loved ones actually show up.  

[BigRedCheese]

It seems that Shirin must have shared her situation about her family with others out there, that she doesn't have/speak to most of them, and then Will used that as a way to hurt her. It sort of reminds me of something that happened on Big Brother years ago when a girl there talked about her father committing suicide, and then another player got mad later in the game and started making jokes about that. I have no problem with Will being upset, but his reaction was ridiculous, and way out of proportion. He specifically focused on Shirin because she's the weakest member of the tribe, it was disturbing to see a 350 pound man getting up in a young girl's face with such rage and venom, and when he did say something to Mike, he sat down first, too cowardly to step up to a man in the same way.

[fishcakes]

Since I'm feeling particular anti-Carolyn right now, I have to link to her secret scene at the bottom of this Entertainment Weekly article and also transcribe part of it because it's so moronic:

 

So we get up, we go for the advantage, we know we're drawing rocks. So I go up first so I think I'm in the first position 'cause I wanted to draw the first rock because then I have a 1 out of 3 chance, right? Not a 1 out of 2. But then Dan comes to the first position on the right side of me and he gets to draw the first rock, which I was so annoyed about but I couldn't switch at that point. Um, what I should have said, which you know hindsight is 20/20, I should have said and batted my eyes, "ladies first!" Um, but I didn't 'cause it didn't come to me as quick as I ... it should have. And of course he drew the white rock. So he got the advantage in the game. I was sooo annoyed.

 

My god, she is stupid. Setting aside her completely laughable failure to understand how odds work, I love how she thinks she would have won if only she'd had the brilliant "ladies first" idea a few seconds earlier. She's like George Costanza. "I'm going with jerk store! Jerk store is the line! Jerk store!"

Edited April 23, 2015 by fishcakes

[Andromeda]

Seems like not many on Twitter support Will's behavior.

https://twitter.com/search?q=%40willandmonifa&src=tyah

 

My god, she is stupid. Setting aside her completely laughable failure to understand how odds work, I love how she thinks she would have won if only she'd had the brilliant "ladies first" idea a few seconds earlier. She's like George Costanza. "I'm going with jerk store! Jerk store is the line! Jerk store!"

So much for any idea that White Collars are more intellectual! Did she even pass basic math?

The comments on that piece mirror those here, a lot of disgust toward Will, the cast as a whole, and Jeff.

Edited April 23, 2015 by Andromeda

[jbrecken]

What does it say about Will that his first attempt at demonstrating his generosity was to offer Jenn the vegetarian some jerky?

[enlightenedbum]

Very few people really have a good practical understand of odds.  See how hard it is to get people to accept the logic behind the solution to the Monty Hall problem.

[blackwing]

Will would have been better off bringing his food back to camp.  Then say, "hey, it turns out, I bought food too.  Only my food is designed to last me for days, instead of 10 minutes."  He had absolutely no obligation to share.  He could have used it strategically and shared it with his core 4 alliance to help them be stronger in immunity challenges.  Instead, he thought he'd get brownie points with everyone.   Of COURSE people would be suspicious.  This is the season that started out with a "choice", and when people brought back beans everyone STILL was suspicious because they all said the bag was smaller than it should have been.

 

When Will offered to give up participation in the immunity challenge in exchange for his letter, I thought Shirin was well within her rights to object.  One could argue that Will got the second best item at the auction.  His purchase was designed to sustain him for the rest of the game.  In exchange, he gave up his letter.  Seems like a fair trade to me.  Shirin should have said she'd only be OK with it if he gave up his right to vote at the next TC, because honestly, one look at that challenge and everyone knows there's no way Will can win.

 

I think Mike shouldn't have bought the letter at all.  Just say he came deciding to spend the whole $500 on the advantage.  We have Dan saying "pleeeeeaaassse".  I would have said no.  As Dan said, Dan makes his own choices.  So Mike can make his own, and he chooses not to get his letter.  Screw Dan and Carolyn.

[enlightenedbum]

I'll say this about Will: he had no good choice with that food.  Options:

 

1) Keep it for yourself.  This requires making an excuse to wander off, have enough time to dig up the food, eat it, rebury it, etc, without ever getting caught.  If you are caught you're done either by being voted out or the jury hates you.

2) Share it with your alliance.  The jury hates you, you lose.

3) Do what he did.  This is the best solution, but since people are basically nuts at this point of the game and usually for at least one person that takes the form of extreme paranoia, you're going to be accused of hiding shit.

 

His problem was in handling the accusation like an asshole instead of a wrongfully accused generally nice person.

 

 

I think Mike shouldn't have bought the letter at all.  Just say he came deciding to spend the whole $500 on the advantage.  We have Dan saying "pleeeeeaaassse".  I would have said no.  As Dan said, Dan makes his own choices.  So Mike can make his own, and he chooses not to get his letter.  Screw Dan and Carolyn.

He either should have not gotten up to buy the letter or should have immediately gone up and bought the letter.  "I want to win, so I'm forgoing my letter from home" is justifiable (though you'll be seen as cutthroat and a threat, but I don't think that was really not going to happen with Mike) and "I want my letter" is normal Survivor behavior.  Going up, intentionally getting yourself last in line, then not taking the letter so you can bid on the advantage, and then reversing course is literally the worst thing you could do, besides maybe offering Jeff $500 for everyone's letter, throwing them on the ground, pissing on them, and then throwing them into the fire.

 

Honestly, even that might have been a better idea.

Edited April 23, 2015 by enlightenedbum

[Andromeda]

Very few people really have a good practical understand of odds.  See how hard it is to get people to accept the logic behind the solution to the Monty Hall problem.

Interesting, I had to Google it. It's similar to the choice Carolyn had and I wonder if she thought that's what was happening. But it would only have applied if Dan had revealed his choice (as a black rock, otherwise game over) before she made hers -- which would have given her better odds and not been fair, of course.

[iMonrey]

 

it's as bad for to make fun of someone and call them a liar without any evidence as it is for a father to yell at his daughter.

 

Nobody called Will a liar. Nobody actually accused him of anything. Some people speculated he might have hidden something or kept something for himself. That's it. If someone had actually called Will a liar to his face, that would be one thing. But imagine someone pulling you aside and telling you "So-and-so said this about you," and without getting any confirmation you went and started bawling that person out with personal attacks with absolutely zero proof what you've been told about that person is true. That's indefensible IMO. It's childish, unreasonable and uncalled for.

[Miss Scarlet]

I have not gone through the whole thread yet, so I apologize if someone already said this:

 

(paraphrasing) Will: God doesn't like ugly. And I'm exposing a whole lot of ugly to him right now.

Me: Yep, Will, you sure are. 

 

I think all of the CBS casting and production people need to be fired. The fact that they put this cast together and have been touting it as the best cast ever on the show? It shows me they are either dumb. cruel, delusional or all three.

 

And I posted this in Shirin and Will's threads, but for people saying that Shirin got what she deserved because she provoked Will - that is freaking bullshit. As other have said in this thread, it was Jenn and Mike (especially Jenn) who started saying that Will was lying and told other players that was her opinion. And yes, it is annoying to get accused of being a liar when you are being truthful and trying to be nice. But to go off the handle like Will did? Was not a proportional response, even if Shirin has instigated the whole incident (which, again, from the edit it appears she didn't). And everyone accuses everyone of lying about everything in this game. The paranoia is rampant. Sierra thought the same thing about Dan and Mike and the bad of beans back in episode 1. So get over it, Will. What he did was absolutely despicable and frightening. And he purposely went after Shirin and not Mike and Jenn specifically because she is so disliked by everyone else and is the easiest target. That is bullying 101 and disgusting. Absolutely disgusting.

 

But I think what frightened me even more was the way he defended himself as tribal. Shirin correctly pointed out why his actions were totally abusive and inappropriate and he basically disagreed with her while describing his behaviour by using synonyms for what she was saying. He'd say "oh, I didn't do that, I did x" and x would be exactly what she was saying. She said "he verbally assaulted me" and he goes "no, I just told you how it is". Yeah, aka verbal assault. His behaviour at tribal convinced me that he has an IQ of 5 and severe cognitive problems or delusion. And what's even more frightening is how many people in the game are just like him.

Edited April 23, 2015 by wudpixie

[enlightenedbum]

Interesting, I had to Google it. It's similar to the choice Carolyn had and I wonder if she thought that's what was happening. But it would only have applied if Dan had revealed his choice (as a black rock, otherwise game over) before she made hers -- which would have given her better odds and not been fair, of course.

Not quite accurate.  Probst would have had to know Dan had picked wrong and she would have to have the option to switch with Mike for things to be analogous.

 

This situation the order you pick doesn't matter, it's still 1/3.  No new information is given at any point.

 

Though it's kind of hilarious how she says 1/3 is a better chance than 1/2.  Even though that's not accurate... she had 1/2 conditional on the probability Dan picked black rock (2/3) which results in... 1/3 overall like you would think it would!  The reason the Monty Hall problem is counterintuitive is the new information revealed by the host.

Edited April 23, 2015 by enlightenedbum

[Miss Scarlet]

After the fan reactions for this season is Jeff finally going to understand that his opinions are s*** and his idea of a "good" season means it's probably one of the worst of aaaaaall tiiiiiiiime???