S30.E10: Bring The Popcorn

[Superpole2000]

Rodney has officially crossed into hate category for me tonight.  There's nothing like a man screaming hysterically with veins bulging out of his head telling another to calm down.  What an idiot.  And I don't know if the other guys are tall, but Rodney seems to be quite small - which may explain his personality.  I'm going to call him Rumpelstiltskin in my head from now on.  Tiny little man, raging and stomping his foot.  Hoping for that hole to open up any day, tiny little man.

Millions of shorter men around the world are perfectly calm and friendly (I know, Rodney probably isn't in that category). No need to short shame.

 

What amazes me most about this season is just how mean everyone is to each other in a game where you need the other people to vote for you at the end. Being liked doesn't mean you will win, but not being hated can be a real advantage. I just don't understand why people aren't nicer to people in a game centered around votes.

[fishcakes]

Ugliest episode ever. I'd rather watch an entire hour of Max's foot wart than to see people treat each this way. I actually felt a little sick to my stomach when it was over.

[ramble]

Eww I feel dirty just watching this trash. Will's highly personalized attack after he was accused of what, in former seasons, would be seen as game play was disgusting. If I was on Survivor & knew someone had been given a "secret stash" to share or save I would automatically question if all was shared, be it food or clues or some stupid super seekrit new idea like an extra vote. Still get mad, rant & rave about your integrity being questioned & your trustworthiness in the game. Blah blah blah. That's Survivor. Telling someone they have no family or friends who love them & they have no soul is horrible. I thought Shirin actually held herself together well during the attack. Later, after what should have been time to reflect about his behavior, Will then continued with the same statements, even stating that it was fact. What a vile human being.

The tears & drama about Mike ruining the special moment to enjoy their letters from home truly baffled me. They have hours to sit around & do nothing. What would it matter if they went off by themselves & read the letter hours later? Did it have to be an immediate shared event? This is a cast of stupid whiners who are sucking all the fun out of this show. Can we vote for the camera guys who give us the cool shots of animals to win instead?

And since it can't be said enough: Rodney, shut up.

Edited April 23, 2015 by ramble

[Vicky8675309]

It was my impression Mike did that for no reason other than to serve his own self-interest, and to give himself an excuse to get the hell out of there before Will turned it around on him.

Mike was the one who concocted the bullshit theory about Will hiding food in the first place. All of the cruelty that followed was set in motion by Mike's treachery.This is the man who deceived all of his teammates at the auction. Right to their faces. Oh sure, he second-guessed himself when he realized the consequences. But you can't unring that bell. He's a duplicitous, cheating bastard. And a shit-stirrer to boot.

Wow, you really hate the fact that Mike speculated/theorized about Will being a greedy prick. Will's not greedy but he is instead a cruel sociopath malicious vile person. I didn't see Mike cheating but playing the game whereas Will got personal and hit below the belt in an inhumane manner. Mike is playing and Will is just a horrible person. I think Mike is a fairly nice guy in general but he is putting the game first but he doesn't seem like the type that would just stand their and let Shirin be beat down (way different than Dan, also a shit head, beat down of Sierra which was just mean game play but not soul crushingly personal).

I don't think we are going to agree on Mike and Will so let's agree to disagree.

[Eggman]

First off, I've always watched Survivor with the attitude that the show goes down a whole lot better if you don't care about the people playing it.  I don't particularly like them.  I also don't particularly hate them.   They're just people who, thank god, I will never meet in person.   It's not about someone I "like", winning.  Whoever wins, wins.    Everything is easier if you just think of them as lab rats.

 

Anyway.  It was pretty much a foregone conclusion that Jenn would go.  She has two unswayable votes on the jury.   No way would they keep her around.   I liked how they managed to add uncertainty to what would normally have been a very boring episode.

 

Second, what's going on is that Rodney has actually brought some very clever game.   Dan & Sierra believe they are tightly allied with him (and supposedly Mike) as blue collar first, with Will as an adjunct, and that Tyler and Caroline are at the bottom.   He's also trying to convince Tyler and Caroline that they are in the F4 - he has to do that to convince them to stick with them. 

 

Those promises to Will, Tyler and Caroline are what we've SEEN, but they don't mean that those 3 are really in the F4 - I'm sure that Rodney has made very convincing promises to Dan & Sierra, and given that they have been allied with him since the beginning, why shouldn't they take those promises seriously?   By holding Will tight and making similar promises to Dan/Sierra and Tyler/Caroline, Rodney has indeed made viable 6 person alliance, for now.   He's an ape, but he's making the right moves.

 

What then happened is that Rodney managed to marginalize Mike, to the point where Caroline is comfortable announcing that it's 6 vs 3, right at tribal council.    I'm unspoiled.  My guess is that things will progress from here as you might expect, with Mike or Shirin going in the next two slots.

[Guest]

Did you see Dan eat that hair on his chopsticks? He was trying to shake it off then he just put it in his mouth. ACK!!!!!

And the audio over it was Jenn railing about how DUMB these people are.

 

I can almost understand Will blowing up in camp.  But I CANNOT STAND assholes who try to justify their assholeish behavior by saying they're just telling the truth!  Keeping it real!  Being honest!   Calling you out on your own bs!  

 

Fuck off, Will.  

[pamplemousse]

Probably the most interesting episode so far this season. Also, the one that left the worst taste in my mouth, most of these people are so repulsive.

 

Mike's over the top paranoia is pissing me off. Yeah, it's warranted, but he flies off the handle so absurdly that he screws himself. His paranoid panic leads him to do the dumbest things like that inane stunt he pulled at the auction (if he was gonna go back on his word and not buy the letter from home, he should've just followed through instead of changing his mind AGAIN at the last moment when he'd already screwed himself by walking away without handing over the twenty bucks and picking up his letter) and his crap timing when he blew up after the auction calling out the flippers. His paranoia even caused him to accuse Will of hoarding food and not sharing all of what he got -- at first I thought this was strategy to bind Shirin tighter to him because Tyler the Tattletale would've gone back and told Will (which he did) and Will would've raged at Shirin (which he did) instead of Mike and/or Jenn because Shirin is the only person in that trio who is in a weaker position than Will and Will knows that, and then Mike could defend Shirin making her feel like he's got her back. I'm not sure if Mike is that clever though. I was really ticked off that Shirin got the brunt of the fallout from that even though it looked to actually be Mike who first planted the suggestion that Will didn't share all the food he got. All Shirin seemed to do was nod and follow along with what Mike (and Jenn) were saying.

 

Will is despicable. Totally an example of a weak person's mentality. If all the weak people banded together to get out the strong then they could rise up, but instead the weak like Will pick on those who are weaker and more disliked than they like Shirin. I wanted to punch him during TC when Shirin was trying to explain why she didn't have any family with tears streaming down her face and Will kept interrupting her like some bitch-ass elementary school kid with his 'no, I didn't's and 'I never said that's with that smug bitch-ass expression on his face. Yeah, you did, and it's all on tape. He couldn't even give her the bare modicum of respect that all human beings should have for each other by letting her finish before starting in on her. FU Will, I hate the sound of your voice and your face and you, aside from Dan, are one of the biggest useless goats this show has ever seen.

 

Rodney is still appalling but he made me laugh a few times this episode, like when he went off on Mike for outing the gang of four flippers and then later admitting in his talking head that Mike was right. And he also made me laugh when he said something about camp being like a damned circus, and his tirade at TC.

 

Tyler the Tattling Informer is annoying the crap out of me. I feel like they should play Snow's Informer every time he runs to someone to tattle on someone else, have it be his theme music. I see now that tattling is his strategy and it may prove to work for him and some people might think it's a smart strategy, but I can't respect it and I think it's gutless. I'm not surprised he's honed it to an art form given where he used to work, but it's still a pathetic no chutzpah way to play the game IMO. I hope it comes back to haunt him. The only thing Dan has ever done that I've respected a tiny bit is when he blew up during Tyler's tattle session and basically told him and the rest of them to shut it and leave him alone to make his own decision.

 

I feel really badly for Shirin. It's just sad how even though, IMO, she's the most successful person there in terms of career, once removed from the milieu of Silicon Valley/the corporate world/civilization, she still ends up on the bottom of the heap and gets piled on repeatedly (she's like every insecure asshole's verbal punching bag, first Dan and now Will -- the two biggest fucking losers in the game). Looks like revenge of the nerds doesn't always hold out to be true. It was truly disgusting how everyone (but Mike) was watching without doing anything while Will ripped her a new one. Yeah, I know she can be annoying and she talks too much and she is pedantic when it comes to showing off her vast knowledge of Survivor lore, but nobody should be treated that way. There's no excuse for that. I know that there's pretty much no chance of this, but she is the only person at this point who I want to see win.

 

I never liked Jenn so I'm not sad that she's gone. I'm only going to miss her because she was pretty much all Shirin had left (I'm discounting Mike because he'll align himself with whoever will get him a day closer to the end). I did like her vindictively hilarious parting talking head.

 

So nice to see lovely Joe again. I wish he'd worn his hair down because it would've looked so nice having been washed -- don't disappoint me on this next week, Joe! I also found it hilarious when Rodney was grousing after the IC that Mike winning was the worst possible outcome -- I snarked at the screen "yeah, well, this wouldn't have happened if y'all hadn't voted Joe off last week, suckers!'

 

In closing...GO. HOME. WILL.

Edited April 23, 2015 by pamplemousse

[rlangmit]

Shirin, Mike, and Jenn outright spread rumours of Will stealing, lying, hiding things based on zero evidence.  They jumped to this conclusion based on nothing and held firm to it.  Why is that just completely forgotten here?  Shirin did play the victim, yet Will was the victim of their shit in the first place.  Will purposely made a decision to NOT act like a victim.  He wanted to fight back. 

 

What Will said was mean, but he was angry.  I don't blame him for angry feelings.  I thought a lot of the episode was entertaining, until Shirin made everything about her.  I'm sorry but in no way does Shirin's domestic abuse justify lying about Will.  Not seeing the connection there.  Never saw her once apologize or even try to.  I really, really hate those people who attack someone and then when they're called out on it, cry and make everyone pity them.  I've seen that act before.  And yet so many people can't seem to see through it.

 

This view of the episode's events baffles me.  Of course Mike, Jenn, and Shirin (and it was all three, though Shirin took the brunt of it) had no evidence that Will was holding anything back.  But they are playing a game where situations like these come up all the time, including in the first episode of the season.  Considering all possibilities is the smart thing to do.  Spreading the idea around helps uncover the truth---or maybe just turns Will's alliance against him.  Rodney turned Mike's alliance against him with a lie (and some help from Mike), so how is this different?

 

And there is no connection between Shirin's domestic abuse and lying about Will, so you're correct not to see one.  Further, it wasn't a lie, since she and the others had no tangible information one way or the other.  Going back to Rodney, he knew for sure that Mike was right about his group of four---that was a lie (and a good one in the game of Survivor).

 

Rodney played very well tonight, by the way.  Scary.

 

I may be giving Rodney undue credit for being SMAHTAH than he is, but I think he was saying that (because Jeff was going to allow them to give back the letters they'd bought) by refusing to buy his letter, as a practical matter he was forcing the others to give up the chance to read their letters.

 

No one said they couldn't forgo the advantage and just take the letters.  Carolyn tried to have her cake and eat it too.  It's too bad Mike went back on his trick.  He could have shared the advantage with Dan and brought him back into the fold, I think...especially after revealing Carolyn, in particular, had turned.  Of course, he should have talked with Dan and SIerra pre-auction and planned a strategy.  Mike was a moron this episode.

 

 

Then Shirin stoops to a new low and prevents the guy from getting a letter from home?

 

Oh, man, I loved that moment.  I don't see why Will deserved to get a letter.  He prevented himself from getting one by buying himself out of the auction.  Too bad for him.  Will tried to pull a fast one on Probst, and Shirin shut him down.  There were too many deals last season anyway!

 

 

Mike's a better person than me to put up with her to try and win the million.  I'd be running to the other alliance just to get away from the woman.  This woman knows how to drive everyone crazy.

 

Did you watch the episode?  Mike is suddenly in the minority, and Shirin is his only remaining ally.  While I appreciate how he is treating her, I'm sure he'd jump back to Dan and Sierra in a heartbeat (though Shirin is a great goat).  But he can't because they've abandoned him.

 

 

She expects everyone to let her win cause she had a tough childhood?

 

No, she expects everyone to treat her like a human being, tough chlldhood or no.  Maybe you saw some confessionals I didn't?

 

It was my impression Mike did that for no reason other than to serve his own self-interest, and to give himself an excuse to get the hell out of there before Will turned it around on him.

 

Mike was the one who concocted the bullshit theory about Will hiding food in the first place.   All of the cruelty that followed was set in motion by Mike's treachery.   This is the man who deceived all of his teammates at the auction.   Right to their faces.  Oh sure, he second-guessed himself when he realized the consequences.   But you can't unring that bell.    He's a duplicitous, cheating bastard.   And a shit-stirrer to boot.

 

I disagree.  Mike seems like a good guy who was freaked out by what was being said to Shirin.  As someone mentioned, he stood up for Sierra earlier in the game.  And Mike's "treachery"?  His "teammates" are actually his competitors.  Sure, he was duplicitous, but in the service of his game (only to mess it up by backpedaling).  And he didn't cheat in any way, shape, or form.

[green]

Ugliest episode ever. I'd rather watch an entire hour of Max's foot wart than to see people treat each this way. I actually felt a little sick to my stomach when it was over.

 

Yeah.  Both Will and Shirin had their hearts injured.  I just don't like that Shirin seems to be getting a free pass for her despicable behavior including her fat jokes about Will in past episodes as another poster pointed out and that's okay.  But Will, who reacts to hurt with anger instead of tears, gets condemned.  Both anger and tears are ways people react to hurt.  Especially in the moment when the person loses their moorings in their emotions.  There is enough blame to go around for them both to have equal shares and equal sympathy over the hurts they received from each other.

 

Also casting gets a major blame since Shirin is obviously unstable due in part at least to her past.  But also because she clings to her past and uses it against other people to make them feel bad if they aren't doing what she wants them to do.  She needs private help, not a public crying jag on nationwide TV.  So shame on Burnett, Probst and CBS for using a psychologically troubled person as "entertainment" for the viewers. 

 

And also subjecting the other cast members to her.  They aren't trained shrinks.  They just know they are annoyed as hell by her and want her to shut up.  They signed up for a game to win a million dollars.  Not to walk on egg shells around a fragile person who is driving them all loopy.  Survivor isn't a giant therapy session.  It is a psychologically rough and tumble game show based in part on Lord of the Flies ... minus the actually physical killing ... so far anyway.  The other cast members shouldn't have to deal with someone with grave psychological problems.  Not that they haven't had unstable people on in the past like that younger Hantz kid.  But that casting choice was wrong too.

 

No one came out smelling like a flower though Mike confined his meltdown to destroying his game plan and attacking Rodney who could handle the rough and tumble stuff okay.  Rodney has turned out to be a real player ... alas.

Edited April 23, 2015 by green

[millennium]

His "teammates" are actually his competitors.  Sure, he was duplicitous, but in the service of his game (only to mess it up by backpedaling).  And he didn't cheat in any way, shape, or form

 

He tried to cheat his fellow teammates by agreeing to a mutual course of action, then backing out after everyone had already committed.

Edited April 23, 2015 by millennium

[Subrookie]

Shirin having to put up with that assholes ad hom attack bought her a free pass from me. I have never really warmed to her but to he'll with the rest of these people for the remainder of the game.

And, I can't believe here on this board a few people are saying that they have a small bit of sympathy for Will because he shared his food or that Shirin made a mistake not letting him get his letter. Fuck Will. And Peaches really looked lost during that TC when Shirin said she was a victim of domestic violence. The right thing there would have been for him to stick up for her because none of the other soulless cast did when she was being verbally beat down by Will except for Mike.

Someone should start a Twitter campaign to stack the audience during the reunion show with people to hiss at Will when he's introduced.

Edited April 23, 2015 by Subrookie

[LadyChatts]

I think they need to stop casting superfans or any fans on this show for awhile and bring in people who've never seen an episode a day in their life.  The so-called fans seem to be playing like the biggest idiots this season.  I won't miss Mike, as long as Dan and Sierra get blindsided for flipping, but if Mike goes I hope Joe says 'I told you so' when he gets to Ponderosa.  They just had to focus on getting the golden boy out rather than see what was going on around them.

[enlightenedbum]

He tried to cheat his fellow teammates by agreeing to a mutual course of action, then backing out after everyone had already committed.

This makes him socially stupid, not an asshole.

[pamplemousse]

Srynotsry, but I don't have any sympathy for Will. He's a dumbass and a shit player and has been from the beginning with all his flip-flopping. He never should've shared that food with the rest of them and I'm not gonna think that's so big of him in doing so when it's just a plain stupid move -- I guess he's never watched the show before, but even more so than flippers never win (which I don't entirely agree with), people who share their rewards never win or engender much in the way of brownie points, in fact several of them have been uncerimoniously voted off not far down the line after being the 'nice guy' and sharing. Maybe I'd feel more sympathy for him if he did it out of the kindness of his heart, but he did it to gain advantage (nothing wrong with that in and of itself except that it's a dumb move) and when that backfired on him because he was too stupid to bring along the box with the food thus arousing people's suspicions, he got all pissy that his good deed wasn't appreciated enough and was questioned. Not gonna feel sorry for an asshole who plays like he has less intelligence than a box of Dan's back hair. Only reason he's made it this far is because up until now people have needed his vote. His response to the rumors of him hoarding food was so overblown and directed only at 1 person out of the 3 and not even the one who started the rumor or was leading the charge with it, and that's all because his big ego got hurt that people questioned his gesture when he expected them to be kissing his ass left and right. Serves him right.

[backformore]

Also, is it totally wrong I'd take food over a letter from home?  I guess I'd have to be in that situation, but having friends and family that have been deployed overseas for months at a time, I guess I just roll my eyes at these guys tearing up over family visits and letters after being gone for a month.

Not wrong, I think I would too.  My family loves me, and I love them.  If I'm away, playing a game to win a million bucks, I take the love with me.  It's a fuckin' MONTH so far.   

I feel the same way when the families come on to visit on Hell's Kitchen, and everyone is in hysterics over it.  Can't people handle being away from family for a few weeks?  HOw does anyone ever go away to college?

Seriously, what is the letter going to say?  I miss you, good luck, hope you're doing well, don't lose too much weight, Johnny got an A in algebra, blah blah.  It sounds terrible, but why not wait for the end to get the letter?  

 

What a bunch of fucking assholes

Yeah.  really, There's nobody to like.  

 

And what is with Rodney?  He's in a fighting stance, clenched muscles, veins bulging on his neck, screaming that someone ELSE should "RELAXXXX!!!!!!!"  OH, there was so much wrong with that. 

[Lingo]

So speaking of evidence, there's a secret scene on the CBS website: before they publicly accused Will of hiding the good food, Mike, Jenn, and Shirin actually went out to search for Will's secret stash, and FOUND the cooler in the ground where he left it, because he left the flag there.  They were convinced he'd hid the food so they were calling him a "dumbass" for leaving the flag there (especially Jen).  Then they dug up the cooler and of course found nothing inside.  The funny thing is that they were still convinced that he's hiding food somewhere else because they think the cooler can hold a lot more than what he shared with them! So that's when they (Jenn and Shirin at least) go back to camp and make the accusation.

 

Personally I really liked this episode.  I mean sure, there's a lot of not-so-likeable people here, but a bunch of stuff HAPPENED that completely turned the game on its end and made the rest of the game a lot less predictable, and that's a good episode.  I don't have to completely like these people to appreciate the twists and turns (and I still like Mike and Shirin, and don't see anything particularly bad about Sierra, Tyler, or Carolyn).

[Dewey Decimate]

Can't help it, still love this season. Is it ugly? Often stupid? Yes, and yes. But to me, that's the real world. There are deeply horrible people - who may seem innocuous to a casual acquaintance - everywhere on this god-forsaken planet; why should they not ooze to the bottom on Survivor? While I certainly would not call this season "fun", it is extremely compelling.

 

Also casting gets a major blame since Shirin is obviously unstable due in part at least to her past.  But also because she clings to her past and uses it against other people to make them feel bad if they aren't doing what she wants them to do.  She needs private help, not a public crying jag on nationwide TV.  So shame on Burnett, Probst and CBS for using a psychologically troubled person as "entertainment" for the viewers. 

 

And also subjecting the other cast members to her.  They aren't trained shrinks.  They just know they are annoyed as hell by her and want her to shut up.  They signed up for a game to win a million dollars.  Not to walk on egg shells around a fragile person who is driving them all loopy.  Survivor isn't a giant therapy session.  It is a psychologically rough and tumble game show based in part on Lord of the Flies ... minus the actually physical killing ... so far anyway.  The other cast members shouldn't have to deal with someone with grave psychological problems.

 

[emphasis added] Wowza. If getting merely teary at being told you are a soul-less, friend-less, essentially value-less human being is the response of a severely psychologically troubled person, then I must be living in Bellevue. Not sure that expressing emotion through a few tears counts as certifiably unstable. I thought Shirin kept her shit together infinitely more than most would have, certainly more than me. But then, I'm the kind of deeply disturbed individual who wants to start breaking fingers when I see assholes talking on their cell phones while driving erratically, so maybe I'm Arkham-bound.

 

Tyler the Tattling Informer is annoying the crap out of me. I feel like they should play Snow's Informer every time he runs to someone to tattle on someone else, have it be his theme music. 

 

BWAH! That's awesome. And now I need to add a song to my remember-to-download list...

 

And why do I get the feeling Rodney's been in a countless number of bar fights? Anyone know if he has a rap sheet? Part of me is a little curious to see who would win in a brawl between him and Mike. I'd say the one with crazy-power might win, but, uh, not sure who that would be. (*Confession: I'm still fully in Mike's corner.)

[LadyChatts]

The editing this season is so aggrivating.  There's more to the secret scenes/extra vids and interviews than the actual show.

 

I don't mind Tyler, but Sierra bores me.  I thought she might actually be a player, but all she's done is just fly under the radar and not make any moves.  Which, if the strategy works for you, fine.  But it's not much to sit in the final 3 and say you deserve a million for doing nothing.  Tyler at least seems to be emerging as someone to watch.  I feel like it's becoming another Natalie, except he's not out for revenge.  He was MIA until a few episodes ago, and still isn't getting a ton of airtime compared to the others.  But he's slowly coming out of the woodwork.  And now he has a majority alliance.  So maybe I'm wrong about Mike getting the winner's edit and it is going to be Tyler.  Which wouldn't thrill me, but with Jenn gone, he's now my #2.  And even after this episode, Rodney still remains my #3.  I just can't get behind Mike as a winner.  

 

But what next?  Do they return to Pagonging the outsiders?  I thought this episode would be an actual blindside.  All it was was Mike's paranoia screwing him over, and Dan getting an extra vote.  I really can't believe they flip flopped and think they're chances are better with Rodney and the gang.  Will is gold to take to the final 3.  After flipping on the NC, and his blow up with Shirin, who is going to vote for him?  That's 4 votes he's guaranteed not to have.  Carolyn and Tyler don't look to be splitting up, and why would they get rid of the hot head?  So if Shirin goes, and then Mike wins immunity again, where does that leave the 7 of them?  

[dbro]

Zero edit following IRC of what should have been a keen interest in Dan's mystery 'advantage'??? i.e. tribe interrogation/speculation. 

[hincandenza]

Christ, the only thing that could redeem the season at this point is a tsunami.

I don't get the hate on Shirin either on the island or here. rlangmit said it best, but all I've seen is a decent person whose only "flaws" seem to be:

A) Playing the game, if sometimes a bit too nakedly (figuratively and literally)

B) Being probably overly talkative and possibly a little annoying.

The first isn't even a sin since they are playing a game, and the second is the jaywalking at 1am of social crimes. I don't recall her ever doing anything vile or hurtful, and she otherwise seems like a normal, healthy, successful woman. And she isn't "playing" the victim, she is the victim, most of these people are really hurtful and abusive to her for the apparent crime of not being their next BFF candidate or something.

I cannot fathom people actually defending Will; did some viewers get an entirely different edit? It's somewhat understandable that these people, hungry and tired and stuck with the same random strangers, would become emotional and dramatic and irrational. Previously solid Mike completely lost his focus tonight. It's even understandable that a deeply personal attack might occur. But Will removed that excuse when he doubled down on his insults. Shirin did nothing wrong, and Will confirmed his true and ugly colors at Tribal.

But us here, we're viewers, we know this is just a game! We're supposed to be cool and detached enough to recognize what's gameplay and what goes past that to be just cruel and sadistic- much as Probst & Burnett are cruel and sadistic, I imagine. Plotting, sowing seeds of trust and doubt, betraying alliances- these are part of the game, and neither player or viewer should internalize those actions. Attacking people way beyond the pale, or routinely trying to hurt or belittle them emotionally, is not gameplay, it's complete and vile assholery.

Also casting gets a major blame since Shirin is obviously unstable due in part at least to her past. But also because she clings to her past and uses it against other people to make them feel bad if they aren't doing what she wants them to do. She needs private help, not a public crying jag on nationwide TV. So shame on Burnett, Probst and CBS for using a psychologically troubled person as "entertainment" for the viewers.

And also subjecting the other cast members to her. They aren't trained shrinks. They just know they are annoyed as hell by her and want her to shut up. They signed up for a game to win a million dollars. Not to walk on egg shells around a fragile person who is driving them all loopy. Survivor isn't a giant therapy session. It is a psychologically rough and tumble game show based in part on Lord of the Flies ... minus the actually physical killing ... so far anyway. The other cast members shouldn't have to deal with someone with grave psychological problems. Not that they haven't had unstable people on in the past like that younger Hantz kid. But that casting choice was wrong too.

Holy shit. That... I think you might regret that in the morning.

[millennium]

The tears & drama about Mike ruining the special moment to enjoy their letters from home truly baffled me. They have hours to sit around & do nothing. What would it matter if they went off by themselves & read the letter hours later? Did it have to be an immediate shared event? This is a cast of stupid whiners who are sucking all the fun out of this show. Can we vote for the camera guys who give us the cool shots of animals to win instead?

 

 

Camera guys for the win?   Sign me up!

 

This stomach-turning bullshit of crying over letters from home makes me want to hose them down with a flamethrower.   They have been away from home for what?   Three weeks?   And they all regress into crybaby pre-schoolers.   What a pathetic bunch of pampered, egotistical, navel-gazing assholes.   "You ruined our special time, ohhhh nooooo!"   Dan ought to be ashamed of himself for that performance.  "I love her like you read about in books ..."  I bet he practiced that line in the mirror before leaving home.  Man up, you loathsome slug.  

Christ, the only thing that could redeem the season at this point is a tsunami.

 

 

Thank you for letting me end my broadcast day with a laugh!

Edited April 23, 2015 by millennium

[Turtle]

As mad as I was about what Will said to Shirin at camp, I was incensed by his attitude at TC - mocking her and claiming that he was just telling the truth not attacking her personally.

That's what infuriated me most. I hated what Will was saying at camp, but I was,hoping it was a case of his mouth running away from him while he was pissed (on top of all the other stress out there, emotional and physical). But no, he stood by his statements, insisting that no one likes her and that he didn't personally attack her (which, what???). I think Will is the one with some issues that need to be addressed.

I still don't get how Mike fell so far so fast. Did I miss an episode or something?

[kikaha]

I still don't get how Mike fell so far so fast. Did I miss an episode or something?

 

Rodney has been targeting Mike for several episodes now.  Rod had Will in his pocket that whole time... and I think Tyler & Carolyn saw the opportunity to boot a threat. 

 

Mike did the rest this episode, losing Dan and Sierra with his colossal mistakes. 

[Bazinga]

 

And Peaches really looked lost during that TC when Shirin said she was a victim of domestic violence. The right thing there would have been for him to stick up for her because none of the other soulless cast did when she was being verbally beat down by Will except for Mike.

No wonder his daytime talk show failed.  That is talk show host 101.  Jeff always allows bullying to go on and thinks the victim is to blame for being weak and not standing up for themselves.  Goes back to Survivor: Fiji when it was Anthony's fault he was weak and that Rocky's bullying him was good for him and Rocky was just doing him a "favor" by being his bully and making him tougher.

 

The letters.  These people are ridiculous.  I could write the letters from home.  We miss you...we love you...play with integrity...we are proud of you...stay safe.  Do they really need to read this stuff, don't they know this already?  It's been less than a month, you are not at war, you are off competing for a million dollars on a TV show and your loved ones are safe at home.  Again, ridiculous.

 

Will's integrity being questioned.  Will has no integrity as he has already proven.  We never saw him called on this, but he totally betrayed no collar.  I know no collar is gone, save for Jenn, and he is now in the dominant alliance, but he does have a betrayal in his background, so why wouldn't his integrity be questionable, especially when the show has often in the past put forth situations where you can keep the advantage to yourself or choose to share?  It isn't out of the realm of possibility that this could have occurred here, so questioning the possibility really wasn't a personal attack but just a statement of the obvious possibility. 

 

Never liked Will in the first place.  Thought he was nasty, bossy, self-righteous, never took responsibility for challenge failures and a fake easygoing "good guy" back at no collar.

 

This show badly needs to change things.  Everything is expected.  When there is an auction, there will be an advantage auctioned off.  HII are a given and they are usually hidden in a certain place.  Clue will be hidden in the food at the reward.  There will be a merge etc. etc.  When everyone can prepare for what is going to happen, there is no surprise or game play anymore.

 

Also ridiculous, but not yet commented on, Shirin's pronouncement that she would not be bidding on an advantage.  I can see why she wouldn't as to not make herself any more of a target, though I would think that small plus is outweighed greatly by her need for an advantage, but why announce that you are doing this?  Stupid to me.

 

Carolyn returning her letter and Jeff's apparent acquiescence to such a return.  How can returning a bought item even be possible????  Could Will, who thought he got zonked, just say, Jeff, I don't want this, I would like my money back and to stay in the auction?  Anyone who buys anything bad, can turn around and say, never mind?  Why would anyone ever keep something bad?  Makes no sense because returns are not possible.  I hate when contestants make up their own rules and Jeff just allows such utter nonsense to go on.  I also don't like Carolyn's smug assumption that she could just do what she wanted without question.

 

Don't like these people (or Jeff for that matter).

Edited April 23, 2015 by Bazinga

[plurie]

Second, what's going on is that Rodney has actually brought some very clever game.   Dan & Sierra believe they are tightly allied with him (and supposedly Mike) as blue collar first, with Will as an adjunct, and that Tyler and Caroline are at the bottom.   He's also trying to convince Tyler and Caroline that they are in the F4 - he has to do that to convince them to stick with them. 

 

Those promises to Will, Tyler and Caroline are what we've SEEN, but they don't mean that those 3 are really in the F4 - I'm sure that Rodney has made very convincing promises to Dan & Sierra, and given that they have been allied with him since the beginning, why shouldn't they take those promises seriously?   By holding Will tight and making similar promises to Dan/Sierra and Tyler/Caroline, Rodney has indeed made viable 6 person alliance, for now.   He's an ape, but he's making the right moves.

 

What then happened is that Rodney managed to marginalize Mike, to the point where Caroline is comfortable announcing that it's 6 vs 3, right at tribal council.   

Exactly! As much as I detest Rodney (along with Dan, Will and Mike), he's playing a great game.

[millennium]

Not that I'm defending Will, but ... it was HIS food.   He bought it with the money the show gave him.

 

No one else was entitled to any of it.

 

When Jenn bought food at the auction, I didn't see anyone mooching off her.   She finished it off to the last drop/crumb.  When Mike bought his chance at the clue, I didn't see anyone else trying to ride his coattails.

 

So where do Mike and Jenn get off accusing Will of hiding/hoarding food?   They had no business going looking for the cooler.   They had no business questioning whether there was more or if it was being kept from them.

 

It was all Will's.   If he chose to share it with them, it was his choice.  But MIke and Jenn had no right to it whatsoever.  Yet there they were, acting like a couple of jealous assholes, fuming that Will may have kept some food for himself.    Was the sheer hypocrisy of this lost on them?

 

Worse, Mike persisted in this fantasy that they had a stake in Will's rightfully-owned food and ultimately triggered the whole ugly emotional scene we witnessed.

 

When I think about the big picture, Mike seems a more gaping asshole than Will.   

[cooker30]

Rodney made a comment last night that I haven't seen mentioned (thanks to all the other insanity.) During the blow up with Mike he had a TH saying something along the lines of how, if he wasn't in the game he eould settle things with Mike in the streets like "real men" do. I don't know about the rest of you but the"real men' I know are able to talk things out and don't need to use their fists. What sucks for me is that he is actually showing some good gameplay but I can't get on board with him because of the behavior he/the editors are showing him to have in the game.

At this point I'm wishing they would introduce a twist that would bring So, Max and Hali back.

I am also wishing twinnie Natalie would have been there last night. After what she said to Rocker last season I would have loved to see what she would haved said to Will.

[ramble]

Dan ought to be ashamed of himself for that performance. "I love her like you read about in books ..." I bet he practiced that line in the mirror before leaving home. Man up, you loathsome slug.

Ha! I had forgotten about. Good grief. Someone loves himself some Nicholas Sparks weepy melodrama. Grab the tissues & clutch your bosom, Dan's going to wax poetic about his twu wuv.

[cooksdelight]

So where do Mike and Jenn get off accusing Will of hiding/hoarding food? They had no business going looking for the cooler. They had no business questioning whether there was more or if it was being kept from them.

I guess they shouldn't look for idols either. Or maybe just take everyone at their word, that no one lies or hides things. After all the flip-flopping Will has done, I'd be wondering if there was more to his gift than he told them. That's all they were doing, seeing if he was being honest with all of them or if he had something to hide for a reason.

Everything is fair game in this game. People are allowed to look for things, to look through other people's belongings such as the cooler, to follow people around and see what they're up to. It's how you stay one step ahead of someone else.

[sadiegirl1999]

Will was not there, he does not get to benefit. the end.

 

Let's just talk about this for a moment. I know it's Survivor and a game and all that shit but how MEAN was it of the producers to START the auction with..."you have to leave and go back to camp".

 

I guess it just follows along with this season and what a shitfest it has been...

[millennium]

Everything is fair game in this game. People are allowed to look for things, to look through other people's belongings such as the cooler, to follow people around and see what they're up to. It's how you stay one step ahead of someone else.

 

So you would have been okay with Will (or anyone) walking up to someone who bought food at the auction and demanding a portion of it for himself, and even after he got some, to villify the person who purchased the food for not giving it all to him?

Edited April 23, 2015 by millennium

[Jal]

I was completely back on Jenn's side during this episode.

 

So much suckage.

 

Please please please let Will, Rodney, and Dan go home next.

 

I don't see why everyone turned on Mike either. They're all just dumb. Even Tyler is being an asshole.

 

It was kind of petty of Shirin to not let Will have his letter, but also made complete sense after all those personal attacks and the emotional and physical drain the show has on people. She stood up for herself that way.

[cooksdelight]

So you would have been okay with Will (or anyone) walking up to someone who bought food at the auction and demanding a portion of it for himself, and if he didn't get it, to villify the person who purchased the food?

It's not the same thing as going to look for something that may or may not be hidden from the rest of the group.

Mike, Shirin and Jenn were trying to shake up the alliance they knew Will had flipped to. Mike overheard the four of them plotting to vote him out. He didn't trust any of them from that point on. Why should he believe Will when he said "this is all there was." I wouldn't.

[millennium]

It's not the same thing as going to look for something that may or may not be hidden from the rest of the group.

Mike, Shirin and Jenn were trying to shake up the alliance they knew Will had flipped to. Mike overheard the four of them plotting to vote him out. He didn't trust any of them from that point on. Why should he believe Will when he said "this is all there was." I wouldn't.

But so what?   It wasn't his, or yours, or whatever.   He bought it.   He owns it.   Hands off.

[ghoulina]

Good Lord, not surprised there's 4 pages already this morning. This episode was a doozy! 

 

Mike was all over the place with his strategy last night. He was driving me crazy. First he went "dirty" by not taking his letter, even though he said he would. But he changes his mind and pays for it! I couldn't decide if he really was having a crisis of conscience, or if it was Carolyn putting hers back that made him buy it. Either way, dumb dumb dumb move. If he hadn't done that, and then called Rodney and everyone out back at camp, he probably could have still had Dan in his pocket.

 

Because Rodney HAS preemptively ditched his alliance and formed a final 4. That would be perfect grounds for going after him, or one of his new group. But how is Dan going to trust you on that when you broke your word and acted all irrationally?? I don't know if Mike could have salvaged things after the letter debacle, but if he had at least waited until after people read theirs, and spoke privately to Sierra and Dan about this sub-alliance, he might have had more of a chance swinging things his way. As it is, he's only there as long as he wins II. 

 

I will say this, I appreciated him being the only one to defend Shirin when Will was attacking her. And I don't think he did it just because he was on the outs with his old tribe mates. I think he just instinctively saw someone being attacked and wanted to help them. Will is officially my most hated in this game now. And that's sad, with the likes of Dan. Will was just flat out NASTY. And the thing is, I got where he was coming from. It was lame that some people automatically assumed he had kept some of the food, without even talking to him about it. But he took it way too far - calling her out as having no loved ones, no one missing her at home. That is just cold, wrong, evil. He says she has no soul? HE has no soul. Who says that about another person? 

 

And the worst part is, he couldn't even take any ownership after he calmed down. We all say things in the heat of the moment, we've all pushed someone's buttons because we wanted to hurt them as badly as they hurt us. (I've never gone that far, but no one is perfect.) But when she's pouring her heart out at tribal, crying, and revealing the past with her family that caused her not to have them in her life....he can't even take a minute and humble himself and apologize. Nope. Just going to keep insisting she's horrible and he did nothing wrong. What a fucking jerk. 

 

I only wish Shirin hadn't prevented him from getting his family letter. I get how hurt she was, but being vindictive wasn't the right move, IMO. If she hadn't done that, it would have kept the scale more in her favor. But whatever, I still hate Will.

 

Not sure how I feel about Jenn going home. Sometimes I really liked her, but other times she was just so bitchy. However, she was on the underdog side and there are a bunch of other people I'd rather see go home. At this point, I'm still rooting for Shirin, because I always liked her, and I guess Mike by default. 

[JudyObscure]

I can almost understand Will blowing up in camp. But I CANNOT STAND assholes who try to justify their assholeish behavior by saying they're just telling the truth! Keeping it real! Being honest! Calling you out on your own bs!

Will gave us a new one: God will appreciate that I called his attention to your awfulness!

Mreid I feel your pain at seeing an African American on screen confirming stereotypes -- just think how I feel as a Christian. Will not only exceeds the stereotype of judgmental Christian, he has the worst understanding of theology I've ever seen.

What you missed in Sunday School, Will:

Everyone has a soul.

Everyone has worth.

Everyone is a child of God, including Shirin.

God doesn't need you to tell him about other people, he knows.

Saying, "I'll pray for you," is not supposed to be the passive aggressive insult you're using it for.

If family really comes first with you, then you sacrifice a comforting letter to try and win a million dollars for them.

[cooksdelight]

JudyObscure, well said. I was really hoping Shirin would have started singing "Jesus loves me, this I know. For the Bible tells me so..."

[sadiegirl1999]

The tears & drama about Mike ruining the special moment to enjoy their letters from home truly baffled me. They have hours to sit around & do nothing. What would it matter if they went off by themselves & read the letter hours later? Did it have to be an immediate shared event?

 

Not to mention, I hate Will but everyone sitting around the fire boohooing over the letters isn't exactly fair to Will. They would've all had PLENTY of time to go off alone and read their letters.

 

 

Zero edit following IRC of what should have been a keen interest in Dan's mystery 'advantage'??? i.e. tribe interrogation/speculation.

 

 

Also, there was no mention of the advantage at the, you know, IMMUNITY CHALLENGE. Jeff never mentions it and no one questions it.

 

Who edited this season? A bunch of kindergartners?

Edited April 23, 2015 by sadiegirl1999

[Wings]

 

And Peaches really looked lost during that TC when Shirin said she was a victim of domestic violence. The right thing there would have been for him to stick up for her because none of the other soulless cast did when she was being verbally beat down by Will except for Mike.

 

A game to win $$ is afoot.  No one "should" have done anything.  It is Shirin's responsibility to stand up for herself or not.  Anyone outside her alliance could risk their position in the game and invite Will's wrath upon themselves had they made any move to comfort or defend Shirin.    Mike did step up. 

 

Jeff does not insert himself in any game problems.  He has to remain the in the observer position and ask questions to bring things to the table.  Scolding a castaway for bad behavior or consoling anyone would be meddling.  

Edited April 23, 2015 by wings707

[teebax]

Millions of shorter men around the world are perfectly calm and friendly (I know, Rodney probably isn't in that category). No need to short shame.

 

What amazes me most about this season is just how mean everyone is to each other in a game where you need the other people to vote for you at the end. Being liked doesn't mean you will win, but not being hated can be a real advantage. I just don't understand why people aren't nicer to people in a game centered around votes.

The short shaming goes perfectly with all the fat shaming on here. I don't understand vilifying one person for making a personal attack by making personal attacks on him. Will isn't a horrible person because of his weight; he's a horrible person because of his behavior. It wouldn't be any more acceptable if Will were thin, so I don't feel the need to fat shame him.

This season is full of mean people, and it makes it unpleasant for me to watch. But then I go online and read nasty comments about those same people and wonder if we just live in a really mean society. Are we really any better than they are when comments about them come down to their weight, their hairline, their accent, marital status, etc? Then we have people who are astounded, astounded! that someone else has a different opinion about the episode than they do. Comments like, "Did you even watch the episode" are just rude and petulant. Different people are going to have different opinions on things. News at 11.

Don't get me wrong, I'm not above it either. But to see people complain about Will's personal attacks by making personal attacks about him (I've seen him called stupid, fat, lazy, and worthless) seems really hypocritical to me. Shirin has been called a victim, fragile, and unstable. Are we really any better than these people we've deemed to be vile?

[ghoulina]

Worse, Mike persisted in this fantasy that they had a stake in Will's rightfully-owned food and ultimately triggered the whole ugly emotional scene we witnessed.

When I think about the big picture, Mike seems a more gaping asshole than Will.

 

I can agree with you that it was wrong of them to assume Will had more food, and even more so to think they're somehow entitled to it. But I can't go so far as to say Mike triggered what Will did. Will had the right to be pissed off. I would not have begrudged him if he had stopped at showing the cooler and telling them they all suck for doubting his integrity. He was pissed. I get it. But he singled out Shirin, and said absolutely despicable things to her. How is that Mike's fault? Will is responsible for his own behavior. If he was feeling THAT angry, he should have taken a walk to cool down. 

 

What sucks for me is that he (Rodney) is actually showing some good gameplay but I can't get on board with him because of the behavior he/the editors are showing him to have in the game.

 

I'm with you right there. Rodney has been making some decent moves, and seems to be able to manipulate quite a few of the players out there. But his personality just SUCKS, so I can't really root for him. 

[Haleth]

But so what?   It wasn't his, or yours, or whatever.   He bought it.   He owns it.   Hands off.

 

And that should have been his response.  Not brow beating a tiny woman.

[neece26]

 

He never should've shared that food with the rest of them and I'm not gonna think that's so big of him in doing so when it's just a plain stupid move -- I guess he's never watched the show before, but even more so than flippers never win (which I don't entirely agree with), people who share their rewards never win or engender much in the way of brownie points, in fact several of them have been uncerimoniously voted off not far down the line after being the 'nice guy' and sharing.

 

Will did the knee jerk move of believing that he would ingratiate himself with the tribe instead of thinking of how he could use his stash as an advantage for himself alone or to sure up an alliance with some others.  No one had any idea that he got anything.   They felt sorry for him bc he got screwed at the auction. Instead he just gave it all up with no strategy to people who had all just eaten.   Dumb.

 

 

[Primetimer]

It's a brave new world of Survivor: a brand-new twist (yes, it's really brand-new) is introduced, and a frontrunner falls to the bottom of the power rankings.

Read the story

[Wings]

I agree it was a dumb move for Will to share his food.  But only in hindsight could this be seen.   

Edited April 23, 2015 by wings707

[Way Wes Jr]

But so what?   It wasn't his, or yours, or whatever.   He bought it.   He owns it.   Hands off.

 

True.  But, this argument is posited upon Mike, Jenn, and (I suppose,) Shirin talking about the potential shadiness of Will to Tyler and Carolyn because they are upset that he didn't share all of his food. Which isn't what they were trying to do.  They were trying to make Will's alliance trust him less.  Which is what they are supposed to do as the minority alliance.  (What, they're supposed to call out the producers and say, "Hey, we're getting Pagonged off anyway, but we don't want to quit.  Why don't we have a 'shocking' triple elimination vote at Tribal tonight and get this over with?")

 

Will's response after Tattlin' Tyler told him about this was to single out the physically weakest member of the minority alliance, and ratchet up the bitchfest to eleven.  And, rather than get it off his chest and move on, (which, not to defend Rodney, is what Rodney does,) the asshat then finds the bonus level 'up to twelve' switch and makes personal attacks on Shirin.  Hali knew about Shirin's domestic abuse while on the island.  Given that Shirin is a "talker," I'm guessing everyone knows.  Will's attacks - "you have no friends, nobody likes you," - weren't solely based upon tribal dynamics, they were abusive attacks on their own.

(And the six fucks who let him get away with need to be hit by an asteroid strike.)

 

Also, there was no mention of the advantage at the, you know, IMMUNITY CHALLENGE. Jeff never mentions it and no one questions it.

 

Who edited this season? A bunch of kindergartners?

 

Kindergartners like a coherent story.  I think each episode was edited by a different person, in a vacuum.

 

When Probst made no mention of an advantage for Dan at the Immunity Challenge, I cannot believe that none of the contestants reacted.  Nobody turned to a tribemate and whispered "Dan's advantage wasn't for this challenge?"  In an alternate universe, there's a really well edited version of this season.  The remaining castaways all still suck, but at least the season makes sense.

[cooksdelight]

I agree it was a dumb move for Will to share his food.  But only in hindsight could this be seen.

Yes and no, it could have gone either way. I don't think Will is smart enough to figure out how to use it as an advantage, nor to hide it well enough that he'd never be seen running out to have a snack. What he should have done, once he found the stash, if he decided to share it was to cover it back up and show them the clue he got and say "Let's go see what it is!"

At this stage of the game, I'd not be sharing food with people who just finished eating (as far as he knew). Or people who may have gotten a huge advantage moving forward in the form of the prize Dan got.

[peachmangosteen]

Did they send a Big Brother cast to Survivor by mistake?

 

This episode was so Big Brother. And these people are more the speed of BB. They normally cast entire groups of heinous people over there.

 

I don't even know how to respond to how awful this season is or to the lengths Production/the cast are going to make it seem great. It's truly baffling.

 

Well, I guess I'm OK with Mike winning now, so maybe editing has accomplished what it wanted to accomplish.

 

Every single one of these people is so smug and self-righteous. It's mind-boggling. Guess what, Mike, it's a fucking game, so if everyone turns against you, get off your high horse and move the fuck on. And everyone else, again, IT'S A GAME, so if Mike wants to save all his money to buy an advantage over a letter, then get over it.

 

Everyone left sucks at the game. Just truly they are horrible.

 

Honestly Rodney is probably playing the best game and he's the least self-righteous. And as has been mentioned he's actually only the 3rd most awful person out there at this point. Whatta cast!

 

I truly hope Shirin is the next voted off so that I can just fully detach myself from this shit fest.

Edited April 23, 2015 by peachmangosteen

[Drogo]

This episode.  It was terrible.

 

Khaleesi was legitimately crying during the Shirin campfire attack and tribal.  I wanted to shut it off, and she told me "Just because we shut it off doesn't mean it didn't happen.  Shutting it off is like ignoring that it's happening."  She was right (of course) so we kept watching- in a way, we watched so as not to leave Shirin alone with him.

 

Will, if you're trolling these boards like the attention whore I believe you are, PM me and I'll tell you where I'm at.  We can make your next YouTube viral video together.  I would love to somehow take Khaleesi to this season's reunion and publicly tear Will to shreds for her.

[Guest]

Yeah.  Both Will and Shirin had their hearts injured.  I just don't like that Shirin seems to be getting a free pass for her despicable behavior including her fat jokes about Will in past episodes as another poster pointed out and that's okay.  

I didn't see those fat jokes.  Was it in actual episodes or bonus clips?