S02.E08: Episode 8

[jeansheridan]

 

I loved that they didn't give in to fan service at the end, and Miller was like "Eh, I'm not hugging you." Actually their whole final scene together was fabulous.

Ditto.  I like tougher Ellie.  And I believed Ellie when she said she would kill Joe and take the consequences.  Although that would mean leaving Fred to grow up alone.  A bit uncool Ellie.

 

The confrontation scene was a bit much for me and some of the staging bugged me.  Seeing Joe walk through them to the taxi was very stagy.  But as a finale moment, I'll accept it.  I can also believe that none of those people had the stomach to kill a person in cold blood, even a person they hated. 

 

Just a side note.  I really liked the actress who played Pippa.  Such an adorable girl and I hate that she was too sweet to have a proper freak out and just get away.  I know it's authentic for a 12 year old to be that timid and she felt safe around people she knew (and her father) but it was all so frustrating to see played out. 

 

So I guess the oven for the dead animals was just a red herring? 

 

I love that Hardy helped Ellie focus her rage.  And that even after this entire season she still looked at him quizzically when Claire said he had held her prisoner to have sex with her!  Oh Ellie.  So untrusting now. 

 

I do think it is interesting that Hardy can turn on the charm if it suits him as he did in that post-abortion scene.  He's generally so uncharming and dour and unfriendly.  Really if he didn't have David Tennant's face, he would be a very charmless (but intelligent) man.  But with Claire in that scene, he was very deliberately tender. 

 

So yeah, overall, I liked this season, maybe even a bit more than last season because I feel there was more Miller and Hardy interaction. 

 

And yippie to series 3!   Delightful news. 

[whirlingdervish]

For weeks now, I've been saying, "Joe's gonna get off. And then season 3 will start of with the discovery of his dead body somewhere."  

[Primetimer]

Broadchurch reacts to the verdict, and Ellie and Hardy find the last pieces of the Sandbrook puzzle.

Read the story

[pezgirl7]

So I guess the oven for the dead animals was just a red herring? 

Lee burned the bloody flooring in the oven, so it wasn't a red herring exactly. The one person that Lee said he knew in France was though. I thought for sure Lisa was still alive, and was in France. I was surprised when Lisa called Ricky 'dad', it made her death by his hands even sadder. I was all ready to feel sorry for Lee when he told Claire not to give Pippa whatever was in the flask, and then he had to go and grab the pillow. This season wasn't as good as last season, but I still enjoyed it. I'm glad they're doing a 3rd. I will miss seeing James D'Arcy's face on my TV every week though. I think the show is all done with the Sandbrook case.

[beeble]

Maybe Season 3 can be the Murder of Sharon's Assistant. Everyone who is supposed to investigate will be "yeah, I'll get right on that…just after this…um..thing that I gotta do…"

 

For some reason, I don't think Lee could kill a 12-year-old child. Claire, on the other hand, could do this while holding a cup of tea and watching East Enders out of the corner of her eye.

 

I would like to ask just how freaking gullible a jury can be, but sadly, we in the US know too much about that.

[staveDarsky]

I think the show is all done with the Sandbrook case.

 

I agree. If you notice Hardy didn't repeat the mistakes he made with Joe. He had witnesses around him when Claire and Lee were arrested. Did you notice the guy sitting immediately in front of them in the court room listening in as Hardy recited Claire her rights? He turned Claire over to Tess to take to custody and had a second officer enter the cottage to get Lee. The interviews at the police station were recorded including the confessions and Ellie got tangible evidence of Lee's and Ricky's involvement. The three of them can't weasel out of the new trial the way Joe did in Broadchurch.

 

I think we're also done with Sharon except for maybe a mention if Jocelyn comes to visit Maggie in series 3. Sharon's son has no ties to Broadchurch and most importantly no ties to Ellie and Hardy. That to me is the factor of what the focus of series 3 will be -- something that has emotional resonance to Hardy and/or Ellie. The most logical story would be investigating Joe (his past, his modus operandi, and wherever he's ended up) to find another case they can get him convicted of. Getting Joe MIller will be Hardy's new Sandbrook.

[Constantinople]

While I think Joe must've sustained a head injury at some point to think he could just slip right back into his old life like he didn't groom his friends' son for molestation and then kill the kid, he can't possibly be stupid enough to attempt to fight in divorce court. His confession could be brought up again and NOT be thrown out. There's also the fact that Ellie would have an entire town willing to go to bat for her. Plus, a family court judge is not going to be willing to put his/her career on the line to allow a potential child molester unfettered access to his underage sons. The best Joe could get would be highly supervised visits with Fred. Tom might be able to reject any visitations, given that Danny was his mate (even if they had a falling out prior to his death).

Ordinarily I would agree, but this is the same show that excluded a confession based on events that took place after the confession. Nothing is too unrealistic for this show.

[Eozostrodon]

Gosh I hope S3 is just Sharon and Jocelyn: The Adventures of Two Elderly Crime-Fighting Lesbians.

[Llywela]

Gosh I hope S3 is just Sharon and Jocelyn: The Adventures of Two Elderly Crime-Fighting Lesbians.

But that wouldn't be Sharon and Jocelyn, would it? It would be Maggie and Jocelyn.

[lucindabelle]

So icky smashed Lisa's head out of jealousy?

And Lee killed poppa for fear shed blame him?

[Pattycake2]

I was disappointed that Joe got off.  Guess juries will swallow hogwash on both sides of the pond.  How did everyone get outside of the cottage as Joe was dragged out?  Weren't they just inside the cottage?  And there were eleven towns people putting him in that cab.  Should have been twelve to pass judgement and issue a sentence. I think Season 3 will focus on Joe somehow trying to get to his children and, god help me, Sharon and Jocelyn trying to get the son out of prison as the subplot.  I love Jocelyn.  There is something majestic about her.  The Dowager Countess in legal robes.  But the son in prison story bored the heck out of me.  I don't care if Sharon is redeemed. Here's hoping that Tom doesn't grow to 6' 4" in the meantime.

 

Another question - why did Hardy think he could die from the pacemaker operation?  These days, they are done under minimal sedation with a local anaesthetic. That's why he could go home so soon.  

[izabella]

I noticed that Tom was there when they were putting Joe in the cab, and there was not one glance between them when Joe walked past.  I was expecting some kind of scene between them at the end with Joe desperately trying to talk to Tom or hug him or something, and then Ellie going nuts on Joe...

 

I had been hoping Lee would be innocent of any actual murders, so I'm telling myself that Claire was lying and she was the one who used the pillow to kill Pippa after drugging her.  That's how far my loathing of Claire goes! 

[jeansheridan]

 

I had been hoping Lee would be innocent of any actual murders

Seriously that night was probably the worst set of circumstances in Lee's ENTIRE life.  He goes from being the macho hero who chases off the creep, to getting sex with a willing participant, to be being a murderer of a little girl.  Of course the night was worse for Lisa and Pippa.  Just saying, that all spiralled horribly out of control for Lee.  And I did love the actor a lot.  He just did puzzled and confused and sometimes sly so well. 

 

What I appreciate about this show is that clearly the murderers are not evil masterminds planning out the perfect murder.  Situations get out of control and they respond to them, often stupidly.  And tragically.

 

I watched the ep again last night and a few last thoughts. 

 

I like how some of the progression mirrows earlier moments in the season.  I like seeing Beth kick the crap out of the bathroom stall where Ellie hid and cried.  I like that Paul who started the season sneaking off to help Joe, decided to involve the important parties in the end and STILL helped Joe (because a priest should do that in my opinion).  Paul also trusted Mark not to murder Joe too.  I like that Hardy knows exactly how to comfort Ellie now.  Not with pity or hugs, but a call to embrace her rage.  I like that Ellie is still sticking to her worldview (that we aren't alone, that love matters) despite having the worst six months of her life.  And that she entered the place where she had the lowest moment of her life and pulled it together to be a sharp professional. And I liked that she broke the case because she was "fussy" about details.  Of course there was almost no way for a viewer to notice those floorboards (she touches them when she's searching the house, but we never get a good look at them before the murder).  But I don't watch mysteries to solve them. 

 

Oh and while it's true there was no overt "fan service", Tess's epic side-eye when Hardy insisted on Miller sitting in on the Claire interview was highly satisyfing.  That actress makes the most of her 10-second scenes. 

 

I hope next season will be a whole new case with some check-ins on the Latimers & Joe.  I trust the writer can come up with a case outside of Broachchurch where it makes sense that Hardy and Miller would work together.  Besides, despite the Latimers being cool, I would think many people in the town would still wonder about Ellie's involvement with Joe's case.  It's not like everyone in town can know her personally and from the outside it does look very sketchy.  And they aren't gonna care about Sandbrook.  That's Hardy's triumph really. 

Edited April 23, 2015 by jeansheridan

[alias1]

 

I had been hoping Lee would be innocent of any actual murders, so I'm telling myself that Claire was lying and she was the one who used the pillow to kill Pippa after drugging her.  That's how far my loathing of Claire goes! 

I so agree with this.  She is one manipulative b&%$#, that's for sure.  But my favorite scene of the episode was when Claire was trying to accuse Hardy of forcing her to have sex, and he wasn't having any of it.  Really good scene for both actors.  She does evil so well.

 

I was a little underwhelmed at the Sandbrook reveals, but at least that case is over (pretty sure).

 

What I liked about season 2 is that there was a lot of Hardy and Ellie.  They are gold together.  But I did notice that it was Ellie who did most of the actual detective work.  (Hardy really isn't that good of a detective, lol)   What I didn't like about season 2 was anything to do with the two lawyers (yawn).  I hope they're gone for good.  Their screen time took away from some of the town characters I would have liked to see more.  Becca (whom I liked in season one) was like a caricature this time around.  Paul wasn't much better.  Too much about the Lattimers for me.  I get that they were the most invested in the trial, but the series could have spent a little more time with the other townspeople.

 

I wasn't sure why Hardy was moving away.  Didn't he just take this job?  But then they left it open at the end when he didn't tell the cab driver where he wanted to go.  It seemed like he might be staying in Broadchurch.  After all, if he moves away, I'm not sure how there could be a season three called Broadchurch.  But I'm glad there will be a season three.  

Edited April 23, 2015 by SierraMist

[uoflfan]

I'd like to see Joe commit suicide to firmly close that plot. Although I enjoyed a lot of the courtroom drama, the trial dragged on for much too long and we need a new murder(s) and a new murderer for Miller and Hardy.

For season 3, take a lesson from The Fall and give us a serial killer who has selected victims from towns within driving distance of Broadchurch with Hardy and Miller having to link the killings and solve the case.

[Kat]

From Sarah's excellent recap:

 

Eve Myles has the most slappably self-satisfied psycho face in TV right now.

She TOTALLY does! She plays Claire so well; I haven't been so infuriated (and yet captivated) with a character on tv in some time.

 

I am actually looking forward to a series 3!

[Sarah D. Bunting]

What do we all feel about why Lee pointed Hardy towards Ricky Gillespie? He had to have known he'd get crossed up in that shit, best case.

[izabella]

What do we all feel about why Lee pointed Hardy towards Ricky Gillespie? He had to have known he'd get crossed up in that shit, best case.

 

Continuing on my theme of believing Claire lied about Lee being the one to kill PIppa with a pillow instead of her, maybe Lee really is innocent of actual murder and was just guilty of the cover-up. 

 

And maybe he thought if the police knew Gillespie killed Lisa, then they'd expect Gillespie to have killed PIppa, too.  Gillespie can't actually dispute that he didn't kill Pippa, since Claire told him Pippa had a reaction to the stuff in the flask Gillespie gave her to give to PIppa.

 

I dunno.  Maybe Lee couldn't live with the guilt?

Edited April 23, 2015 by izabella

[secnarf]

Maybe Lee thought that if Hardy was planning on taking him down (and Claire was helping him to save her own skin), the least he could do is make sure he didn't take the blame for all of it.

[thuganomics85]

Whelp, I called that wrong.  That's what I get:  I'm rarely right about these things.  Joe is found not guilty after-all.  I wonder if there was on particular thing that put doubt in the jury (the money Ellie gave her sister, Mark being shady as fuck, the Hardy/Ellie affair bullshit), or if was just the sum of everything that made them go that way.  Plus, again, Jocelyn was one of the biggest pushovers I've ever seen in trial.  Sorry, I love Charlotte Rampling, but I would never want her to prosecute a case that involves me or a love one.  Give me Law & Order's Jack McCoy, and his yelling any day of the week.  At least he can get the results most of the time.

 

Still, it sounds like Joe is getting booted out of Broadchurch, which, really: how delusional is he?  Did he really think Beth, Ellie, and the rest will be like "Well, he was found not guilty, so it's back to normal now.  We're cool, Joe!!" about that?  He was lucky it just ended up being a showdown, and they didn't just off him and dump his body in the same spot they found Danny.  He would have deserved it.  Still, I wonder if he'll still try and come back and even attempt some kind of custody.  For his sake, I hope not, because I totally believe Ellie would kill his ass.  Ellie and Beth chewing him out was the best.

 

Sandbrook is done, hopefully!  It was Daddy Ricky that killed the nanny after busting her and Lee having sex, the daughter hears the commotion and thinks it was Lee, so he smothers her, after Claire sets her up.  Man, that entire trio were some cold bastards, right there.  Glad they all got caught.  While a lot of it was crazy, I did enjoy seeing James D'Arcy in this type of role, and I hope to see more of him on TV, assuming Agent Carter doesn't get picked up (I hope it does...)

 

If Jocelyn really is going to work for Sharon now, I hope she at least convinces Sharon to boot her annoying assistant.

 

A lot of great Hardy/Ellie stuff.  Again, this show struck gold with the chemistry David Tennant and Olivia Coleman have with one another.  Even if parts of the show don't work, the always do.

 

Episode ended in a way that could have worked as a series finale, but I heard we already got another season.  I'm guessing it could be another case, but it has to be something that effects the rest of the town-folks, and it certainly has to be big enough to have Hardy come back to Broadchurch, since it looked like he was leaving at the end.

Edited April 23, 2015 by thuganomics85

[sarahlee]

My guess of Season 3 is that Joe is found dead somewhere. Notice how ambiguous it all was. "It's been dealt with" was all Ellie said. What if Ellie is accused of murder and Hardy is trying to find out who really did it?

[Happytobehere]

My issue with the banishment is that all the evidence shows that child molesters, much like rapists, are never rehabilitated. All the "good people" of Broadchurch have done is set some other innocent kids up to be raped and murdered as they pay themselves in the back. When Joe strikes again and people like him always strike again, I hope Broadchurch becomes aware of it because they will own every part of what Joe does to his next victim(s).

The resolution to the Sandbrook killing makes little sense. I always got that Claire evil and the father was in one the kills, but overall, I feel the "truth" we were given is still off. Did Lee confirm he killed Pippa? Why was he so susceptible to Claire's instructions?

[staveDarsky]

Well, I can't see Hardy letting Joe go free any more than he could live with Lee going free in Sandbrook. A major part of series 3 should be about Hardy finding evidence that Joe has hurt/killed someone else and gets him convicted for that crime, even if he can't get him for Danny's murder. And I'd like to see Hardy prove Joe deserves to be behind bars BEFORE Joe is killed so Hardy gets his record as "worst cop in Britain" wiped clean. I want Hardy to rise fully back to the top of his game which can't really happen if Joe is found dead at the start of series 3. BTW, Matthew Gravelle who plays Joe has said he'd love it if Joe was revealed to be a serial killer. And it would be really exciting if Joe was someone who plays psychological games with Hardy, forcing Alec and Ellie to outsmart Joe to get him.

 

Oh and since Joe is from Cardiff, wouldn't it be fun to send David Tennant back to Cardiff to film scenes where Hardy investigates Joe's past? (Cue the Doctor Who tie-ins!)

Edited April 24, 2015 by staveDarsky

[jeansheridan]

I think Ellie mentioning her first crush (a cop) might play into SEASON 3. Serial killers are rare and I don't think they fit this show. I like the messiness of Broadchurch crimes. I am fine with it being Broadchurch even if the case is someplace else.

[Eozostrodon]

But that wouldn't be Sharon and Jocelyn, would it? It would be Maggie and Jocelyn.

Thanks, i's so long since Broadchurch finished airing I'd forgotten the character's names!

[Jodithgrace]

The only issue I have with a third series is the name of the show. Unless the call it BROADCHURCH-like Show That Takes Place Someplace Entirely Different, they are pretty much stuck with that location. Not that I don't love the location..it's absolutely gorgeous. But how many more murders can a small community like that support? Danny's case seemed like a one-off. And even though Hardy managed to drag the Sandbrook case into Broadchurch this season, if season three deals with Sandbrook (and really it's done IMO) how can they justify sticking in Broadchurch? Too bad they didn't name the series after Hardy and/or Miller.

[OakGoblinFly]

What do we all feel about why Lee pointed Hardy towards Ricky Gillespie? He had to have known he'd get crossed up in that shit, best case.

 

 

Guilt?  Remorse?

[beeble]

What do we all feel about why Lee pointed Hardy towards Ricky Gillespie? He had to have known he'd get crossed up in that shit, best case.

I think at first Lee stayed quiet out of self-preservation, but then Ricky loudly proclaimed that he believed Lee was the killer, Lee then had no reason to protect Ricky.They were both killers and their knowledge would make one think that they'd keep their mouths shut, but Ricky probably started naming Lee once he hightailed it to France.

[staveDarsky]

What do we all feel about why Lee pointed Hardy towards Ricky Gillespie? He had to have known he'd get crossed up in that shit, best case.

You mean in episode 3 when Lee visited Hardy's cottage with his own file? I think he really wanted to  come home and hoped he could get Hardy to believe someone else did it and arrest them in place of Lee. Don't know if he thought he'd be able to reveal anonymously where Lisa was buried to nail Ricky. Frankly I think he was the most naive of the lot and also the most remorseful of what happened.

 

BTW..

The Sea Brigade did two podcasts for the finale. A short one a few hours after it aired in the UK and a longer one published the following weekend.

I absolutely loved these podcasts.

Quick reaction podcast from Feb. 23

Longer podcast about episode 8

Edited April 24, 2015 by staveDarsky

[RedHackle]

No way Joe is going to stay away from his kids for the rest of their lives. He doesn't loose parental rights just because he was on trial, yea?

 

 

It seemed to me that they were clear on saying this wasn't about legality at this point, but about what's morally and ethically right.  What I heard the characters who confronted Joe say was "fine, you had your fun, your day in court, now quit screwing around and ruining everyone's lives and get the hell out of this town or next time we won't be doing an intervention, we'll be killing you."  Not verbatim but that was the gist. 

 

He can just divorce her and demand joint custody. Heck, he'll probably never find a good job again and she'd have to pay him child support, if it works in the UK like the US.

 

Not necessarily, and that isn't exactly how it works here in the US.  You can file for joint custody, that doesn't mean you'll get it.  And while there is plenty of material for both of these parents to sling some mud on the other, between the two, the mother here (Ellie) is far more likely to retain sole custody. 

At least here in the US, (don't know about UK) generally child support is paid by the non-custodial parent to the custodial parent (or whichever of the two parents the kids spend more time with, if joint) regardless of who makes more money. 

 

And in this case, Joe can't have it both ways; either the trial exonerated him completely, which he would need to state in order to ask for custody/visitation, or it's created a permanent stain on his character which is why he can't find work.  I don't think he can use the same argument to prove both sides.  But regardless, I think if he's stupid enough to show his face again in this town again, he'll find himself taking the shortcut down from the cliffs.

[applecrisp]

I cried at the reveal of the Sandbrook case,mostly for Pippa and Lisa.  But I also cried for Hardy.  This case had taken so much from him.  I liked this show and will watch again.  It was not perfect but is still better than a lot of TV.

Edited April 24, 2015 by applecrisp

[staveDarsky]

And while there is plenty of material for both of these parents to sling some mud on the other, between the two, the mother here (Ellie) is far more likely to retain sole custody.

 

I agree. If the interrogation room recording was still running when Ellie went in to see Joe, then it will show he taunted her by announcing he wanted to see Tom. That's when she lost it. Unlike with the criminal case against Joe, Ellie won't come off as just beating him  up out of the blue but as a mother reacting to a threat to her child. It's unlikely to happen again (as long as Joe stays away) and since she'd keep the boys in their hometown with the people they've always known and a support network to help her out, she's the more qualified parent to retain sole custody and no visitation rights for Joe.

Edited April 24, 2015 by staveDarsky

[applecrisp]

Seriously that night was probably the worst set of circumstances in Lee's ENTIRE life.  He goes from being the macho hero who chases off the creep, to getting sex with a willing participant, to be being a murderer of a little girl.  Of course the night was worse for Lisa and Pippa.  Just saying, that all spiralled horribly out of control for Lee.  And I did love the actor a lot.  He just did puzzled and confused and sometimes sly so well. 

 

What I appreciate about this show is that clearly the murderers are not evil masterminds planning out the perfect murder.  Situations get out of control and they respond to them, often stupidly.  And tragically.

 

I watched the ep again last night and a few last thoughts. 

 

I like how some of the progression mirrows earlier moments in the season.  I like seeing Beth kick the crap out of the bathroom stall where Ellie hid and cried.  I like that Paul who started the season sneaking off to help Joe, decided to involve the important parties in the end and STILL helped Joe (because a priest should do that in my opinion).  Paul also trusted Mark not to murder Joe too.  I like that Hardy knows exactly how to comfort Ellie now.  Not with pity or hugs, but a call to embrace her rage.  I like that Ellie is still sticking to her worldview (that we aren't alone, that love matters) despite having the worst six months of her life.  And that she entered the place where she had the lowest moment of her life and pulled it together to be a sharp professional. And I liked that she broke the case because she was "fussy" about details.  Of course there was almost no way for a viewer to notice those floorboards (she touches them when she's searching the house, but we never get a good look at them before the murder).  But I don't watch mysteries to solve them. 

 

Oh and while it's true there was no overt "fan service", Tess's epic side-eye when Hardy insisted on Miller sitting in on the Claire interview was highly satisyfing.  That actress makes the most of her 10-second scenes. 

 

I hope next season will be a whole new case with some check-ins on the Latimers & Joe.  I trust the writer can come up with a case outside of Broachchurch where it makes sense that Hardy and Miller would work together.  Besides, despite the Latimers being cool, I would think many people in the town would still wonder about Ellie's involvement with Joe's case.  It's not like everyone in town can know her personally and from the outside it does look very sketchy.  And they aren't gonna care about Sandbrook.  That's Hardy's triumph really. 

 

 

I liked your summation.  These people were not evil masterminds, but Claire really took charge once the death had occurred.  She was the one I would call evil.

[Wordsworth]

I was really hoping that Joe would be found guilty or that he would have a crisis of conscience and confess.  But, barring that, I suppose they did what they could with a not guilty verdict.  Sharon and her team created enough reasonable doubt (or the British equivalent of it) to make the jury believe that Joe may not have done it.  That was their job.  

 

But Sharon should find another profession if she has such a negative view of the justice system.  Just because her son was convicted doesn't mean the whole thing is bad.  I mean, after all, she just got a tawdry child killer off by tossing his wife and the victim's parents under the bus.

 

Joe was a bit naive to think he could just resume his life.  I'm guessing he doesn't have any parents or other close relatives left?  No one appeared to be in court for his sake and he clearly had no place to go after he was released.

 

Finally, that whole Sandbrook thing was so unsatisfying.  All of the suspects did it.  Except Cate, of course.  Depending on how much legal maneuvering Lee does, it would appear that Ricky will find out that his daughter didn't die of a reaction to the laced whiskey, but was smothered instead.

 

All a bunch of stupid evil liars.  Ricky killed his niece and was going to put the blame on Lee, then gave Claire doctored booze to sedate his own daughter, Claire deliberately gives her the stuff to knock her out, Lee murders the girl to keep her from being a witness against him (She knew Lee & Lisa were having sex, but she didn't hear her own father yelling from that same room?), Claire tells Ricky that his daughter was accidentally killed so that she's got some leverage against him if he decides to falsely accuse Lee of killing Lisa.  

 

 

 

 

[Mabinogia]

The only interesting thing about Sandbrooke was that, in the past, Clare seemed like the dominant one while in the present Lee was the dominant one in their little S&M games. So, while he did suffocate the poor girl with a pillow, Clare was definitely pulling the strings. She was the one who mentioned that the girl thought Lee was the killer and that she was currently incapacitated. Lee was mostly her gun. Not taking the blame off of him by any means, but I hate the idea that she could weasel out of any real time simple because she got someone else to do her dirty work. (Full disclosure: I kind of hate Clare, so I'm very biased)

[catray]

I am both surprised and not surprised that Joe was found guilty. Regardless of that, though, is that he is so delusional, apparently, that he thought he could resume life in Broadchurch as if nothing had changed. Wow. When Mark and Nigel dragged him out of the church, I honestly thought next season was going to revolve around the discovery and investigation of Joe's death. I liked Beth and Ellie coming together again and laying the smack down on Joe.

 

Glad the Sandbrook case was laid to rest-- holy god those people are fucked up. Those poor girls. I still wish at some point someone had told Tess to stuff it, as her negligence cost Hardy the case in the first place, but whatever.

 

Freaking loved the good-bye between Ellie and Hardy at the end, where she refused to hug him.

[Kathira]

The only interesting thing about Sandbrooke was that, in the past, Clare seemed like the dominant one while in the present Lee was the dominant one in their little S&M games. So, while he did suffocate the poor girl with a pillow, Clare was definitely pulling the strings. She was the one who mentioned that the girl thought Lee was the killer and that she was currently incapacitated. Lee was mostly her gun. Not taking the blame off of him by any means, but I hate the idea that she could weasel out of any real time simple because she got someone else to do her dirty work. (Full disclosure: I kind of hate Clare, so I'm very biased)

This actually isn't unusual in S&M relationships, that the submissive (or bottom) is actually the one in control of the scene and the relationship in general. This seemed to be very much the case for Lee and Claire. She was always the one who was initiated their sex play, asking to be tied up, etc. It's not too much of a step to see that she was the one who took control of the situation once Ricky killed Lisa.

[Black Knight]

The weak point of Sandbrook for me ended up being this: I don't know why Claire even wanted to protect Lee in the first place, since he had cheated on her with Lisa. I get that she was pregnant, but she chose not to tell him and she ended up having an abortion, so it wasn't something where she decided they were going to hold together and be a family because he was the father of her child, yadda yadda. And she's never come across as someone who has a strong protective instinct for anyone other than herself, and she's also been shown to be a vindictive person. I just don't really see why she didn't call the police on Ricky and if Ricky pointed the finger at Lee, too bad for Lee, let the cheating bastard sweat it out in an interrogation room.

 

Sandbrook ended up being: They All Did It!

 

I'm looking forward to S3.

[Black Knight]

My issue with the banishment is that all the evidence shows that child molesters, much like rapists, are never rehabilitated. All the "good people" of Broadchurch have done is set some other innocent kids up to be raped and murdered as they pay themselves in the back. When Joe strikes again and people like him always strike again, I hope Broadchurch becomes aware of it because they will own every part of what Joe does to his next victim(s).

By this logic, you are responsible for any crime that a known child predator or rapist commits in your area. The sex offender registry is there, you can look up them all and go out and kill them before they commit another crime. Since you haven't, you own every part of what they do to their next victim(s). If you don't believe in rehabilitation - and I'm not arguing that you're wrong to believe that, let's just say you're right and go from there - then why are you not taking the step of vigilante murder? You're as culpable as anyone else if you haven't.

 

Or perhaps it's just a little more complicated than people patting themselves on the back for not being murderers.

[Wordsworth]

Much more complicated.  We know Joe was probably grooming Danny and may have molested him if Danny had not rebuffed his affections and lived.  The jury doesn't know that.  As it was, the trial barely acknowledged that Joe had been meeting privately with Danny at all.  So the jury knowingly letting off a sex offender is not nearly as simple as we want it to be.  They certainly didn't knowingly let off a child killer.  They didn't want to do that, but Jocelyn didn't provide sufficient evidence that Joe was the guilty party.  What evidence she did provide was successfully countered by Sharon's defense.  

 

So it's not on their heads. They're just the jury.  They can only go by the evidence provided and how credible it is or isn't.  Anything that happens after his acquittal is on Joe's head.  

 

However, if there is blame to go around:

 

1) Hardy and Ellie.  They didn't follow procedure.  

 

* Ellie paid Lucy for her dubious statement.  Whether she had helped or not helped Lucy in the past, she did pay Lucy this time because she was desperate to get information that might lead to the killer.  That was wrong.  Lucy had virtually no information to give and the situation was made worse when Sharon was later able to demonstrate to the jury that her accusation of Ellie trying to frame her husband was plausible.

 

* Ellie beat up Joe in the interrogation room despite Hardy's admonition not to touch him.  Hardy let her near him in the first place.  This caused the single most important piece of evidence, Joe's confession, to be thrown out, as well as serve as reinforcement of the accusation that Joe was being set up.  

 

Add to that the unknown pal at the police station that let Mark in to see Joe and the jury has sufficient reason to believe that the police are incompetent, corrupt or both.  All of the above made good drama...it can destroy a case against someone in real life, though.

 

2) Jocelyn's inadequate and unprepared prosecution: 

 

*  She failed to sufficiently impress upon her witnesses how important it was that she not be left out of the loop when it came to details or about being honest on the stand.  

 

Both Lucy and Ellie lied on the stand.  Lucy lied when she said she saw Joe that night and Ellie lied about not bribing her sister for information.  This allowed Sharon to point out inconsistencies in Lucy's original statement versus her testimony.  Once the check from Ellie was found, Sharon was also able to demonstrate a possible cover-up, as well as proving that Lucy perjured herself on the stand.   

 

Mark failed to completely disclose his whereabouts on the night of Danny's murder or his affair with Becca Fisher.  Jocelyn may have thought twice about putting him on the stand, Tom or no Tom, had she known this.  This forced Mark to admit that he'd been within 100 feet of his son the night of his murder, with another woman and gave the jury a possible motive for Mark killing Danny instead.  

 

* And apparently she was either not given access to police statements regarding Lucy, Becca and Mark or she did not bother to read them.  If so, she would have known Lucy didn't tell them she specifically saw Joe, known that Mark's alibi was bogus and that he was released from custody only because Becca had shown up to confess she was with him that night. There is no evidence she knew anything of this ahead of time. 

 

* It also does not appear that Jocelyn tried to tie Joe specifically to the phone and the messages sent to Danny. Remember, Joe bought the phone for Danny.  A phone his parents didn't know he had.  Those facts do not appear to have come up in the trial.  if we assume Tom didn't buy the phone for Danny, couldn't Jocelyn determine who bought the phone?  Who paid the phone bill (assuming it wasn't Danny)?  The dates and times messages were sent versus Ellie's work schedule and Tom's school?  Once Sharon argued that Ellie or Tom could have sent the messages, I got the impression that Jocelyn decided her hands were tied in that area  (Sorry, I'm just remembering a case in the U.S. in which investigators were trying to determine if a mother or a daughter committed a crime and were able to prove that the daughter was at school at the time an incriminating note was written on the home computer).

 

* Her closing statement consisted basically of, "Hey, he didn't take the stand in his defense" only to be followed up by the judge's instructions to the jury that the defendant doesn't have to do that.

  

3)  Ollie for failing to control his testosterone.  Last year, he let whatsherface manipulate him into investigating Jack Marshall, resulting in the latter's reputation being destroyed and his subsequent suicide.  This year, he let Abby seduce him - despite a clear conflict of interest - so that she could rifle though Lucy's paperwork and find the incriminating check that was used to give the jury reason to believe Sharon's accusation of a police set up.  

 

So, plenty of blame to go around.  It demonstrates how nothing is a sure thing in a trial and how the whims and personalities of the people involved can mean the difference between a conviction and an acquittal.

 

Once acquitted, Joe is a free man, as free as anyone who's found not guilty is.  He is not required to move. He's not required to stay away from kids.  He's not required to get counseling or anything else.  What were Ellie & her friends supposed to do?  Harass him every day?  Stalk him?  Try to get him to confess on tape?  They let him know he wasn't welcome in Broadchurch.  That's really all they could do. Even then, they applied a bit more pressure than they were legally allowed to do.  Especially if Ellie is serious about killing him if he tries to contact the boys.

Edited May 4, 2015 by Wordsworth

[staveDarsky]

Hold up a minute. Ellie did not bribe Lucy. She did not know what information Lucy was going to provide. Bribing is persuading someone to do something in the payor's favor, usually by a gift of money. So by that definition, Ellie would have had to know already that she wanted Lucy to say it was Joe. Ellie knew paying Lucy money was wrong and that it looked like a bribe to the jury, but in her mind it wasn't a bribe and so she wasn't lying. 

 

As for Ellie beating up Joe, Sharon's argument wasn't the damage Ellie did, but the fact that it could have covered up an earlier beating by Hardy done to coerce the confession out of Joe. And there is where Hardy made a mistake -- he should have had a second officer with him when he went to arrest Joe. Notice he corrected that when he arrested both Claire (in front of several witnesses) and Lee (taking a fellow officer along).

 

I do agree Jocelyn didn't do her work and ensure everyone was being 100% honest. Nor do I think she and Ben were very thorough about going through the police case files. 

[Wordsworth]

I understand where you're coming from, but Ellie paid Lucy for information.  That's not really something a police officer should do because it looks bad and any competent defense attorney will call them on it.

 

It may not have been an actual bribe, but based on Lucy's poor performance on the stand, it very much looked that way to the jury.  And while we know that Ellie didn't beat up Joe because she was trying to frame him, the fact that she did beat him is what brought up the question of police brutality in the first place and led Sharon to speculate that Joe's confession could have been forced.  

 

So Ellie paying Lucy for information and beating up Joe were procedural failures that severely damaged the prosecution's case.  Regardless of what Ellie's motives actually were for doing them, she was wrong.  And she did lie on the stand when she tried to argue that she didn't give Lucy the money for information. 

Edited May 5, 2015 by Wordsworth

[jeansheridan]

 

However, if there is blame to go around:

Wordsworth, I really like your summation of all the mistakes that were made in the investigation.  It makes me a bit concerned about the ability to nail Claire unless she confesses.  Because she can claim Hardy manipulated & isolated her.  How weird is it an investigating officer pays the rent for a suspect?  Very, very weird.  Or they get drunk with her?  But I sort of hope the show doesn't go there again next season and just moves on. 

[tennisgurl]

The Claire stuff, in general, is very strange, and would look even stranger to a court of law. Like, where do you start with that? 

 

Joe really does live in his own world. What did he THINK was going to happen after all this? He slithered out of jail, and then he figured he could just pick up his old life? And everything would be alright? What? I mean, I knew he was delusional with his whole "I love Danny" shit, but this is just ridiculous. I wish they had literally chased him out with torches and pitchforks.

 

I do understand them not wanting to actually kill him though. Sicko or not, that's a big damn deal. Its not like we can have vigilante mobs running around everywhere, society would crumble. Granted, if someone did kill Joe, I would be sympathetic, but I can understand not killing him too. At least now, people know ho he is, and what he is.

 

This season was not perfect, and other, more knowledge people, have kind of said everything I wanted to say, but I got my Hardy and Ellie fix, and that's all I need to tune in again for series three.  

[staveDarsky]

How weird is it an investigating officer pays the rent for a suspect?  Very, very weird.  Or they get drunk with her?  But I sort of hope the show doesn't go there again next season and just moves on. 

I fully believe we're done with Sandbrook because, unlike with the Broadchurch case, Hardy did get a taped confession from Lee. As long as Lee shows no signs of being physically coerced into confessing, then it will stick. Then Ricky nailed the case shut by admitting where Lisa was buried, which the police quickly confirmed. Lisa's body is enough tangible, compelling evidence to get a conviction against Ricky. Lee is doomed by the hair on Pippa's pillow now having an explanation. He's not going to be able to get out from that murder charge.

Claire is a little trickier, but at the least they can get her for theft of evidence from police custody which should hold her for a bit. If she reveals the burial spot of Ricky's flask, then she's nailed as a conspirator to manipulate evidence in a murder case. 

 

I hadn't thought about how Hardy's going to explain footing the bill for Claire without throwing suspicion on himself.

 

In the end, I doubt the audience would stand for a collapse of the Sandbrook case after what season 2 did to the Broadchurch case. While it's a plausible scenario, there was enough accusation against Chris Chibnall for "ret-conning" series 1 with the series 2 court case that he'd be foolish to do the same with the Sandbrook case and hope to keep the fan loyalty.

[editorgrrl]

This season was not perfect, and other, more knowledge people, have kind of said everything I wanted to say, but I got my Hardy and Ellie fix, and that's all I need to tune in again for series three.  

 

Me, too!

[alias1]

I fully believe we're done with Sandbrook because, unlike with the Broadchurch case, Hardy did get a taped confession from Lee. As long as Lee shows no signs of being physically coerced into confessing, then it will stick. Then Ricky nailed the case shut by admitting where Lisa was buried, which the police quickly confirmed. Lisa's body is enough tangible, compelling evidence to get a conviction against Ricky. Lee is doomed by the hair on Pippa's pillow now having an explanation. He's not going to be able to get out from that murder charge.

Claire is a little trickier, but at the least they can get her for theft of evidence from police custody which should hold her for a bit. If she reveals the burial spot of Ricky's flask, then she's nailed as a conspirator to manipulate evidence in a murder case. 

 

I hadn't thought about how Hardy's going to explain footing the bill for Claire without throwing suspicion on himself.

 

In the end, I doubt the audience would stand for a collapse of the Sandbrook case after what season 2 did to the Broadchurch case. While it's a plausible scenario, there was enough accusation against Chris Chibnall for "ret-conning" series 1 with the series 2 court case that he'd be foolish to do the same with the Sandbrook case and hope to keep the fan loyalty.

I agree.  I know I would be less than pleased if we have to go back over the Sandbrook case next season.  Even though there were some plot holes, I think we're done with Sandbrook.

[Diane M]

I just finished a marathon watching of Season 2......excellent television.  The acting was first class, and Olivia Coleman is a British treasure.  When the season began showing in Britain, I remember headlines in the entertainment news that viewers were angry with the series, but I never read why because I didn't want to be spoiled. Does anyone know the reason for their anger?

[Llywela]

I just finished a marathon watching of Season 2......excellent television.  The acting was first class, and Olivia Coleman is a British treasure.  When the season began showing in Britain, I remember headlines in the entertainment news that viewers were angry with the series, but I never read why because I didn't want to be spoiled. Does anyone know the reason for their anger?

The Wiki entry gives a fairly in-depth rundown of the mixed critical reception to series 2.

[Diane M]

Thank you, Llywela.  I never would have thought to look at Wiki.