S04.E19: Sympathy For The De Vil

[dr pepper]

Well that's done it-- Emma is a murderer and now she's dark.

RETCON!

It's ok, it turns out that Cruella was really Jafar in disguise. He flits away safely. Emma's heart is still baby pink.

[dr pepper]

Also: who's going to scalp Cruella to retrieve that pint of ink?

[coops]

I really enjoyed this episode. Cruella is hilarious, the way she explained to Mal how she left her baby to die while an awful thing to do was so funny the way she said it. A shame she died at the end, she was the best villian out of the queens. Ursula we never saw being a true villian only the sob story and mild snarking in storybrooke and Maleficent as a character is just all over the place, one minute a villian the next a victim and sometimes an emo.

Moments that made me laugh were Regina telling Emma she was acting like a petulant child and Emmas retort- BURN Regina! Cruella playing angry birds was also hilarious.

The ending I have mixed feelings about. One one hand is was a powerful scene but on the other it reminded me of the cliff hanger in the miller's daughter right down to Snow and Charming running in at the last minute but just too late. They really need to work on their timing. I also feel like the show is all over the place at the moment so much so that they had to come up with a cheap way to write characters out of the show for an episode- hence Maleficent taking her nap. There is just too much going on and too many villians running around. And now we are down to just Maleficent out of the QoD I can say they have been a massive let down. There was no point in bringing them in together all at once it has been a wasted opportunity sadly.

[YaddaYadda]

Zelena's heart (and Zelena's whole arc in general) is a total retcon, but I thought Hook's heart had some dark spots swimming around in there. Which I think is a pretty accurate description of his character at the moment -- he's mostly good, but there's still some dark spots to his character that prevent him from being 100% good.

 

The dark in Hook's heart is actually the heartbeat.  His heart looks exactly the same as Aurora, those dark spots included.  And we all know Aurora is not some villain.

[Curio]

The dark in Hook's heart is actually the heartbeat. His heart looks exactly the same as Aurora, those dark spots included. And we all know Aurora is not some villain.

 

Oh, but with these writers? Just you wait. I'm sure they could easily come up with an equivalent evil egg baby plot for her and Phillip if they wanted to.

[DeLurker]

I'm calling it now for when they go back and do this retcon later, but Cruella isn't actually dead.

 

She was saved by Dragon Maleficent, who she still had control of and had had lying in wait just below the cliff just in case. The body we saw was her outfit with a simple illusion or glamour of her broken body in it.

 

How I wish.

 

Rumple: One of the most powerful wizards ever.

Regina, Zelena, and Malificent: powerful wizards.

 

Cruella: Emotionally stunted sociopath who can control animals and cannot murder. Except dogs and werewolves.

 

One of these things is not like the others.

But humans are animals so, in theory, Cruella should have been able to control humans too.

[LaChavalina]

People have made most of my points already but:

• A land without time! (Except for the people who age and die)
• A child who can concoct potions from flowers and kill three adult men! (But who can't figure out how to leave the attic in the span of a decade or so)

 

Oy.

[AudienceofOne]

And this week we have a morality tale from people who think that infidelity isn't infidelity if your wife has secretly been replaced by an evil witch; even if this is a fact of which you are unaware. Killing a harmless person is wrong; even if you don't know they're harmless and they have kidnapped your son, chased him to the edge of a cliff, have a gun to his head and are threatening to blow it off. Thanks, guys! That's fucked up. Again.

Edited April 20, 2015 by AudienceofOne

[RadioGirl27]

Really, A&E are telling us that a Sheriff killing a criminal who has a gun pointed at the head of a kid she has previously kidnapped is a cold-blooded, horrible crime, totally unjustified and the first step towards darkness.

We are not even talking about mother saving her son, it's a law enforcement officer killing a criminal that is in the middle of the commission of a crime.

Edited April 20, 2015 by RadioGirl27

[Mari]

Really, A&E are telling us that a Sheriff killing a criminal who has a gun pointed at the head of a kid she has previously kidnapped is a cold-blooded, horrible crime, totally unjustified and the first step towards darkness.

Yup.

[dr pepper]

Perhaps it's A&E who have gone dark. They have become rogue Authors.

[KAOS Agent]

I considered Cruella's death to be more suicide by cop than anything else. She may not have thought Emma would kill her, but Regina was in on the demand as well. Did Cruella think Regina would let her walk away after kidnapping and threatening Henry?

[Camera One]

Looking at the bigger view, Cruella's plan in this episode was stupid and made no sense.  Yes, she was angry at the Author, but why did he have to die that day?  Was there a rule we don't know about that says if a Writer dies, all their words no longer apply?  Why not wait for Rumple to force him to rewrite all the villains' happy endings?  Why create a situation where she herself might die from the wrath of Emma and Regina?  

 

I'll bet the Writers in their so-called planning for 4B decided one of their brilliant achievements this season will be to give us a fake-out with Ursula getting her happy ending, and then to surprise us with Cruella being a sociopathic killer.  That's probably why this was their favorite episode, since it highlights their cleverness.  

Edited April 21, 2015 by Camera One

[Francie]

There was some great acting in this episode.  The actors who play the Author and Cruella were wonderful to watch.  I was completely hooked.  Finally an episode with a back story reminiscent of Season 1's stories.  

 

I'm barely attention to Emma being turned to Evil storyline.  It makes no sense.  I tune all that out, much like I tuned out the entire Peter Pan season.  The horror, the horror.

[Writing Wrongs]

I wonder how many sessions with Archie Pongo needed after being used by Cruella? Poor doggy.

[Camera One]

I thought the Dalmatian eyes were kinda scary.  I remember reading in the newspaper after the last 101 Dalmatian movie a service announcement telling parents NOT to buy Dalmatians because they are very difficult to take care of, and they would just end up being abandoned, as someone else said above.

 

So what was the Writer's original reason for walking up to Cruella's mother's door?  Why was he so excited when Cruella said her mother murdered the previous three husbands?  Is this story somehow worthy of recording or something?  

 

So this is the second time Henry has run right onto a cliff.  I think Snow made that mistake once before as well.  I wonder if it was the exact same set.

[RedInk]

YES - Emma saved her son from what she perceived as danger. No one will argue that. What is unnerving is the lack of emotion that she showed after she had killed Cruella.

I imagine the only emotion I would feel would be extreme relief. I assume it's different for a police officer who has to shoot someone in the line of duty or something...but no regrets about killing someone holding a gun to my child. Edited April 21, 2015 by RedInk

[shipperx]

I thought the setup made sense. We aren't supposed to think what Emma did was unforgivable. They made sure to shoe us that Cruella was a bone deep villain who had committed multiple murders. We, the audience, are not meant to view what Emma did as unforgiveable. She was reacting to someone threatening her child. The point is that EMMA will rip out over Cruella's inability to kill Henry. The point of the inability to kill is to cause Emma angst, not to turn the audience on Emma. It was calibrated to maintain the audience's support in Emma while shaking Emma's belief in herself.

On another issue, if Cruella's mom didn't want Cruella to be evil, why the frell did she give a baby a name like CRUELla? (That's even ignoring de Vil). You don't hang a moniker like that on a baby and hope they become sweetness, light, and unicorns.)

[Camera One]

Hey, what happened with last week's cliffhanger?  Didn't Rumple say Regina was essential in turning the Savior over to the Dark Side?  And then in this episode, Regina's off planning a trip to The Big Apple?  Did she just realized she didn't need the Author to get herself a happy ending with Robin?

Edited April 21, 2015 by Camera One

[Dani-Ellie]

That was the reason Regina used Belle: to end run around Gold's ultimatum. He told her he'd have Zelena kill Robin unless she helped. She told him she'd kill Belle if he had Zelena kill Robin. Since they're now even, his threat is essentially meaningless.

[ParadoxLost]

I thought the setup made sense. We aren't supposed to think what Emma did was unforgivable. They made sure to shoe us that Cruella was a bone deep villain who had committed multiple murders. We, the audience, are not meant to view what Emma did as unforgiveable. She was reacting to someone threatening her child. The point is that EMMA will rip out over Cruella's inability to kill Henry. The point of the inability to kill is to cause Emma angst, not to turn the audience on Emma. It was calibrated to maintain the audience's support in Emma while shaking Emma's belief in herself.

 

The problem with this is that they jumped the gun on the make up and emotionless stare.  What extra angst is Emma supposed to portray?  They've already dialed that up to eleven without really showing anything that would explain it besides her parents lying to her.  How much time has passed since she found out about the lie because she looks like death warmed over after a thousand sleepless nights.  Shouldn't that come after sleepless nights because she doubts herself over Cruella's death?

 

I think this show fails because they are too scared of the viewers.  Cruella was deliciously evil and snarky because they were not worried at all about keeping her root able.  She was a sociopath and a guest star.  They are paying lip service to Emma murdering a defenseless woman but they didn't show it that way at all.  I think you are right that they want Emma to doubt herself, but they really gave her no reason to.  Had Snowing showed up before and Emma's lack of trust in them had her ending Cruella despite their word that Cruella couldn't kill, that would have given the reason for this to make Emma spiral but they didn't do it.  They didn't do it because they don't want viewers to turn on Emma in any way, but that unravels the whole plot.

 

The question is going to be who tells Emma that Cruella couldn't kill... Snowing or Rumpel?

Edited April 21, 2015 by ParadoxLost

[Trini]

I'm calling it now for when they go back and do this retcon later, but Cruella isn't actually dead.

 

She was saved by Dragon Maleficent, who she still had control of and had had lying in wait just below the cliff just in case. The body we saw was her outfit with a simple illusion or glamour of her broken body in it.

 

I want to believe this, because has any other magical person been this easy to kill on the show? Seems sketchy. (More so than usual.)

[whyjoshua]

I don't buy it. I like Cruella fine, and I wish she had a better role in the storyline, but she's not really a witch or anything. She had a single power, and it came directly from the Author. To reveal that something else magical had saved her after all would be out of character for her—especially since her only real ally was asleep at the time.

Edited April 21, 2015 by whyjoshua

[Camera One]

How much time has passed since she found out about the lie because she looks like death warmed over after a thousand sleepless nights.  Shouldn't that come after sleepless nights because she doubts herself over Cruella's death?

 

LOL.  That is so true.  Emma's physical transformation in this one was way over the top.

 

 

 

That was the reason Regina used Belle: to end run around Gold's ultimatum. He told her he'd have Zelena kill Robin unless she helped. She told him she'd kill Belle if he had Zelena kill Robin. Since they're now even, his threat is essentially meaningless.

 

So Regina's role in turning the Savior to the dark side is not "vital" anymore?  It seems like they made a huge deal over it, and now it's a moot point?  Kinda like how Rumple spent 2 hours trying to get Emma into a Hat, and the next episode, he moved on to something else.

Edited April 21, 2015 by Camera One

[ParadoxLost]

LOL.  That is so true.  Emma's physical transformation in this one was way over the top.

 

I think the make up department was jealous of the CGI department and tried to match CGI Pinocchio.

 

But seriously, when Emma had this look in the promo to show that she was evil I was really disappointed that this was how they decided to show it.  It never occurred to me that they would do this in the actual episodes.

[Souris]

So Regina's role in turning the Savior to the dark side is not "vital" anymore?  It seems like they made a huge deal over it, and now it's a moot point?  Kinda like how Rumple spent 2 hours trying to get Emma into a Hat, and the next episode, he moved on to something else.

 

And there you have the show in a nutshell.

[Dianthus]

It occurred to me that of course Snow wouldn't show remorse for the baby-snatching/cursing business, 'cuz she's been spending way too much time with Regina! Hell, she's already sort of endorsed Regina's adultery.

[Rumsy4]

You know what makes the whole "twist" pointless? Even if Snowing had made it in time to tell Emma that Cruella couldn't kill anyone, I don't think it would have made a difference. What's more--it shouldn't have made a difference IMO. She would be an idiot to believe that Cruella couldn't kill anyone when she was holding a gun to her son's head on the edge of a cliff. Would she have risked her son's life on the basis of what her parents told her the author her told them? 

[TrininisaScorp]

One of the reasons I love coming here is because you people make me feel sane.  Which is something this show doesn't make me feel.  Ever.

 

Per the morality guidelines on this show, being a hero totally sucks.  You can't be a normal human being with any flaws.  You have to be a perfect creature, which feels like a precipice that sets no one up for success.  What I saw up on that ledge was a mother protecting her kid from a crazy bitch with a gun.  How is that really making her evil?  The anvils and bad makeup job on Morrison not withstanding, I just don't get it.  I don't get how this drives her to the dark side.  I don't actually understand what's going on with Emma.  She's been through a lot, but THIS is what is messing her up?  I am enjoying some of the snark coming from her "you, the one who held a years long grudge against something a 10 year old did".  Heh.

 

This cast may indeed be too big.  I feel like some of favs like Hook and Will get sidelined for what feels like a long time.  And why can't Belle ever get to be bad ass without supernatural influences?  Frankly, Rumple deserves to suffer a bit and I enjoyed her cattiness. 

 

That said, I love this 1920s London.  It had a lovely sepia-ness to it that I enjoyed.  Would have loved to spend more time in this world.  Maybe without the Author.  Like many of you, I appreciated that Cruella was just evil.  Sometimes there doesn't have to be a reason why someone is an evil nutter, especially on a show like this.

[Camera One]

I know Emma was busy but did they communicate at all using that magical contraption we call a cell phone?  After all, Snowing were sent to the cabin to get possibly relevant info.  And don't tell us there wasn't any cell reception since Gold managed to use his cell phone in that cave under the Library.   By the time Snow and Charming managed to magically locate everyone by the cliff, there would have been a long time interval for a voicemail to be waiting on Emma's phone.

[kili]

If Cruella can't kill somebody, she made a good effort at it parking her car on the train tracks. How could she know for sure that everybody could get out of the car? She can't poof people herself, so her spell relied on her trust of somebody else to save them. Seems like a bit of a loophole.

[MDKNIGHT]

Last ep I brought up that in light of Emma forgiving Regina it was going to be pointed out that it was ironic she was having difficulty forgiving Snowing.  I giggled when Regina brought it up this ep.

 

Gonna miss Cruella.  "I'll show you Angry Birds"  hee

 

I am reminded of an episode of Friday the 13th the Series where a Samurai was immortal but had to keep to a certain code.  To defeat him the other samurai threw his sword away at the last second meaning the immortal samurai (who was already moving forward in a stabbing montion and couldn't stop his forward momentum) killed "an  unarmed man" which was against his code and his magic was taken away and his real age caught up with him and he died.  Now he didn't MEAN to kill an unarmed man and normally morality takes into account INTENT but I can see playing around with different rules.  It could be postulated that fairy tale heroes and villains operate under a different set of rules of morality.  Where the show falls down is not making this overt IF that is where they are coming from. Of course I could be over thinking this.

[The Cake is a Pie]

I forgot to put this in my earlier post....WHERE IS YOUR WIFE, WILL?

[Zuleikha]

She can't poof people herself, so her spell relied on her trust of somebody else to save them. Seems like a bit of a loophole.

Not a loophole. It's just the way the Author magic works. Cruella would love to kill people, so she's happy to put people in situations where she may get to kill them. But per the Author magic, something will always go wrong so that she'll never actually kill them. The gun jammed when she tried to kill the Author, and Regina poofed the car so no one got killed.

[Camera One]

Now who wins the award for the most impressive fast-and-quick-writing-under-emergency-situation on this show?  Rogue Writer who jotted down a sentence in perfect script in 3 seconds, or Elsa and Anna's mother composing a long letter in the midst of a shipwreck?

 

Considering he could scrawl that down so fast, why didn't the Writer add a sentence taking away her magical powers, maybe trapping her in a cage, etc., especially if he knew the effects of the first sentence would keep him safe?

Edited April 21, 2015 by Camera One

[dr pepper]

A different question. The real world has no magic. It is merely an island in a sea of Realms, where different versions of stories and penned by various Authors wash ashore. Hence, Cruella would not be restricted here. So why didn't she kill her husband after he made a big pile, but before he got exposed for whatever fraud he was doing?

[Curio]

I know Emma was busy but did they communicate at all using that magical contraption we call a cell phone? After all, Snowing were sent to the cabin to get possibly relevant info. And don't tell us there wasn't any cell reception since Gold managed to use his cell phone in that cave under the Library. By the time Snow and Charming managed to magically locate everyone by the cliff, there would have been a long time interval for a voicemail to be waiting on Emma's phone.

 

Oh, do you actually think Emma would have received that voicemail?

[Dani-Ellie]

So Regina's role in turning the Savior to the dark side is not "vital" anymore?  It seems like they made a huge deal over it, and now it's a moot point?  Kinda like how Rumple spent 2 hours trying to get Emma into a Hat, and the next episode, he moved on to something else.

 

See, this is the kind of thing where criticism starts to feel like a piling on for me. They didn't make a huge deal out of it. There was one scene with Rumple and Regina about Regina's role in turning Emma. Yes, it ended an episode but it was one scene. The next episode, Regina handles it, and she handles it in such a way that she's essentially tied Rumple's hands so he has no choice but to move on to Plan B.

 

And yet, if they'd dragged it out, I bet you dollars to doughnuts there would be a lot of "fan service/queer baiting/Swan Queen angst" complaints. It really is like this show just can't win sometimes.

[YaddaYadda]

I realized something that Rumple said to the Author about how if he [Author] died, someone would take over for him.  Does that mean no one has taken over for him since he was locked up by the Apprentice?  Is this a slip and the writers messed up?  And if they didn't, who in the world continued recording the stories in Henry's book?

 

And what Snowing did to Maleficent's baby, why is it even in Henry's book?  Because technically, it shouldn't even be there.  Everyone has read that book from start to finish, several times and no one zeroed in on oh, look what Snowing did with that old dude, they took away Emma's darkness and put it in someone else before the someone else ended up in another land.

 

These plot holes are the size of craters.  

 

There is way too much going on this half season.  While I appreciated some of Cruella's backstory and really enjoyed the twist (I'm not sure how this is a top 5 episode for Eddie, but it's his opinion), this Author thing has been going since the beginning of the season and I would have thought that this half season would be more focused on it.  But I guess they only have enough imagination and tricks to fill the last two hours of the season.  

 

I'd think if anything, this half-season should have been the Author, the Apprentice and the Sorcerer since they are very much linked together, they don't have to make that up since it's been part of the show since the start of the season.  Plus the Sorcerer seems to be as manipulative as Rumple is.

[FurryFury]

(I'm not sure how this is a top 5 episode for Eddie, but it's his opinion)

 

Top 5? This episode should not even be in top 20.

[Curio]

See, this is the kind of thing where criticism starts to feel like a piling on for me. They didn't make a huge deal out of it. There was one scene with Rumple and Regina about Regina's role in turning Emma. Yes, it ended an episode but it was one scene. The next episode, Regina handles it, and she handles it in such a way that she's essentially tied Rumple's hands so he has no choice but to move on to Plan B.

 

I don't mind the piling on of criticism right now. But personally, this half season is so atrocious that there isn't enough criticism in the world to bash it. I just hope that Adam & Eddy actualy listen to the criticism instead of tweeting, "Oh, well I'm sorry you didn't like that episode. I hope you enjoy the next one! Keep watching!" No. Dude. Listen. There are some legitimate arguments going on here.

 

Although, the one you quoted isn't a huge issue in the grand scheme of things, but is does point out the disconnect between different scripts and writers, which is reoccurring issue on this show. One writing team thought it would be a good idea to place that huge ultimatum at the end of the episode cliffhanger, and since they did leave Regina's answer as a cliffhanger, and because the director zoomed in on her evil expression, the audience was supposed to think that's a huge moment. And then in the very next episode, the other writing team has Regina randomly barging into the loft and saying, "Wow, a lot of shit went down last night, but it's not really important so let me just jump to the plot point about Zelena." It's a bit of a whiplash in tone. But I'm actually glad they skipped over all that drama because I (like Regina) didn't care at all about the previous episode and just wanted to get things rolling in this Cruella episode.

[Dani-Ellie]

I don't mind the piling on of criticism right now. But personally, this half season is so atrocious that there isn't enough criticism in the world to bash it. I just hope that Adam & Eddy actualy listen to the criticism instead of tweeting, "Oh, well I'm sorry you didn't like that episode. I hope you enjoy the next one! Keep watching!" No. Dude. Listen. There are some legitimate arguments going on here.

 

Responding in the fandom thread.

[foreverevolving]

On paper, this I agree with completely, since most evil people in real life aren't "evil just because they are" and it would be boring to have too many of those kinds of villains (that said, there are sociopaths just born rotten in real life too, and I'm glad Cruella represents those kinds of people). The problem is in execution, which they usually fail miserably at, especially with Regina and her family, and sometimes with Rumple as well.

 

Disagree, people can be born with mental a illness. this affects their view of the world, however not all of them become killing psychos, it's the parents (or child guardian) responsibility to are for the child, and if an illness is discovered to try and take care of it. but this is a very post-modern view, what we were shown in the episode was a very old world view of how things were done back in the days- which usually only worsened everything.

Also this is a fiction show so things tend to get more dramatized.

[Mitch]

Loved this episode and yea, they fooled me that Cruella was an outright psycho! Loved that it was really fun but still dark ...I mean, matricide and dog killing on a family show..??? However, I do feel that part of this is her mother's fault as, uh, it took three murders for her to realize that Cruella was behind it...( I laughed when the mother said, "Well, after the third husband I had my proof!"God I love this dumb show!!) and is it really good to just keep your psycho in the attic intead of getting help for her...(or are there no shrinks in 1920's Land?)  I will miss Cruella, she was having the most fun with her villainy and we are now stuck with emo villains.  I especially will miss her insults of Rumple "When people threaten me they should look me in the eye..can I get you a stepladder darling?"

 

Snow and Charming are again...totally useless! Why does anyone even call them "heroes," anymore, they do absolutely nothing unless helped out by a magical being....For once Henry wasnt an idiot in how he again was kidanpped...makes sense he would chase after Pongo alone on the street. Liked Regina getting one over on old Rump...and that she got Belle's consent before doing so (still don't know if that is really Belle's heart or if they were faking it...her "Script," was pure Regina and I don't think that limp biscut could come up with such good taunts..)

 

Speaking of, I think Cruella was lying when confronted by Maleficent..for some reason she does not want her to know that Lily is still alive or where she is? Nice that we got an explanaiton for the queens not aging but we still have the Snow Queen and her agelessness.

 

The only quibble I have is that I wish the world Cruella came from would be a mishmash of decades...jazz music and some 50's furniture, maybe some 60s and 70s things thrown in so we could see its a world without time..kind of like Storybrooke under the curse.

[ImogenLeFay]

I think if I still cared about this show, I'd be really pissed about this episode. The Cruella stuff was fun, yes, but the main cast is getting destroyed more and more. Even with the little amount I'm caring, I'm still really disappointed in the writing for Snowing. They may pay lip-service to the fact that the whole egg-thing was wrong and unheroic - then turn around and say it was totally worth it, they're actually completely fine with it and would do it again. And still they're upset Emma isn't forgiving them?

Or maybe they think they didn't really do anything wrong, and the question isn't why Emma doesn't forgive them but rather why she's angry at all, because it was what they had to do at the moment. They can totally join with Regina and her "I don't regret my horrible deeds because they got me what I want" attitude.

Then again, the whole plot is just so dumb, I can't even...

 

At least Hook is still pretty. But I'm slowly running out of other reasons to watch this.

[Zuleikha]

See, this is the kind of thing where criticism starts to feel like a piling on for me. They didn't make a huge deal out of it. There was one scene with Rumple and Regina about Regina's role in turning Emma. Yes, it ended an episode but it was one scene. The next episode, Regina handles it, and she handles it in such a way that she's essentially tied Rumple's hands so he has no choice but to move on to Plan B.

 

It's that a big deal of it was made by implication. We know Rumple has a complicated scheme that involves manipulating a lot of people with the end goal of driving Emma dark and forcing the author to write him a happy ending. This scheme may also involve all villains getting happy endings and all heroes getting unhappy ones; hard to know because we only know Regina learned that from the Queens of Darkness who were being lied to. Rumple appears to genuinely need Regina to the point of bringing her into his plans when he's not quite sure he trusts her and then capturing and threatening her instead of killing/exiling her when he figures out she's betraying him. 

 

But then he just doesn't. She doesn't do what he's expecting but instead rejects his choice. Whatever his plans were that involved her helping Emma darken, now are up in the air. Meanwhile, we know by implication of this episode that everything with Cruella is just Cruella. Rumple didn't intend for her to kidnap Henry and make an enemy of Regina/Emma. He didn't initially know she knew the author or that the author had written she'll never be able to kill anyone. He maybe actively meddles with splitting off Hook and Regina from Emma (unclear to me where the conch shells came from, but my guess is Rumple rather than Cruella) but that's literally all we know he does.

 

At the same time, he's not nervous or coming across as frantically trying to make his plan still work. Urusla's gone without doing whatever he planned for her; Regina's revealed as a double agent and has forcefully rejected helping him; Maleficent's now focused only on Lily (and then asleep); and Cruella went off script and is doing something that could easily get her killed by Regina before she can affect Emma. And it all seems like no big deal at all to Rumple.

 

And then of course, events do all work out exactly the way Rumple needs it to. Snow and Charming are a second too late to intervene. Regina can't apparate to Henry or Emma's side for whatever reason, so Regina isn't there to TK the gun, capture Cruella, or do the killing blow instead of Emma. Nope, Emma makes a killing blow and emotionally responds to killing Cruella exactly the way Rumple wants her to. It's too much. Rumple should have spent most of the episode angry and grappling to regain control (much as he did when he learned he couldn't leave Storybrooke in 2A). That moment with Emma and Cruella should have been a Hail Mary hope for him that his plans weren't mucked up yet.

[Curio]

Here's what I don't get about Rumple's Rube Goldbergian plan to turn Emma dark — with Emma's parents not in her official "trust circle" at the moment, why doesn't he just kill off Regina and Hook? He should know by using his crystal ball that Emma placed them in her people-she-trusts group, so taking away her support group would surely drive her further into darkness.

 

And with Hook, it would be like killing two birds with one stone because it helps drive Emma into darkness and he just straight up hates the guy. In fact, why doesn't Rumple just kill Hook at any time? Is he afraid of getting his hands dirty because that will make his black coal heart lose its tiny flicker of red that it has left? Is that why he has to force Maleficent, Ursula, Cruella, and now Zelena to do his dark tasks for him?

Edited April 21, 2015 by Curio

[YaddaYadda]

And with Hook, it would be like killing two birds with one stone because it helps drive Emma into darkness and he just straight up hates the guy. In fact, why doesn't Rumple just kill Hook at any time? Is he afraid of getting his hands dirty because that will make his black coal heart lose its tiny flicker of red that it has left? Is that why he has to force Maleficent, Ursula, Cruella, and now Zelena to do his dark tasks for him?

 

Isn't that weird though?  Emma and Hook were under the sleeping curse.  He had him at his mercy, completely defenseless.  Bonus points, Hook can't mouth off at him like he did in the clock tower.  He made no move towards him.  And even in the woods, Hook was alone and Rumple was hiding right there watching him.  Why is that?  His original plan failed, he impersonated Hook to take the dagger back, Hook turned Ursula around (even though it had no real impact on Rumple), he found out what his plans for Emma were.  Not that anyone has done anything with that knowledge.

 

Zelena is a Captain Swan shipped, she won't do anything to Hook.

[Curio]

And even in the woods, Hook was alone and Rumple was hiding right there watching him. Why is that?

 

Okay, I thought I was just imagining that scene. So Rumple was stalking Hook in the woods, then. Interesting. I'd halfway assume that would lead to a scene where Rumple captures Hook, takes his heart again, and forces Hook to be his puppet and say some things to Emma that would influence her onto the path of darkness. But because Hook has only been in approximately 15 seconds of each episode since his centric, I doubt that scene actually meant anything.

 

The writers should have held off on Rumple taking Hook's heart until this 4B arc since they didn't do anything important with it in 4A. If Rumple took Hook's heart now, he could use Hook as someone who would be the demon whispering in Emma's ear, nudging her in the direction Rumple needs her to go, and he could also use Hook as a mole to get information from the "good guy" team. That whole plot was wasted in 4A because the writers never let Hook actually be an effective mole with the Frozen gang.

Edited April 21, 2015 by Curio

[RadioGirl27]

Rumple plan makes little sense, like everything this half season.

 

So, I finally saw this. I enjoyed the flashback a lot. The Storybrooke stuff, not so much. All this Emma and Regina are now BFF just doesn't ring true to me and most of their scenes are incredibly forced, like the one where Emma gives Regina the gun. And Henry is really his father son, so stupid. The last shot with Emma was laughable. At least Hook got some lines and Charming was really hot attacking the Author.