S05.E01: The Wars To Come

[Lady S.]

So who was young Cersei's friend?  I didn't think she had any friends besides her twin bro. I also wonder what was the point of the flashback, it didn't tell us anything we didn't already know.

It told us Robert had freakin' 20 bastards. And that Cersei always had queenly ambitions and was promised she'd marry Rhaegar, which isn't new info but hasn't been spelled out before.

 

I love you, Margaery, but maybe learn to knock.  Just saying.

This is the same woman who wanted to consummate her marriage to Renly by having Loras in the room as a fluffer. I suspect their relationship hasn't had many boundaries for a while. At least Loras being gay should mean they're not like all the pairs of handsy, groping siblings, a distinction that could only be made about Game of Thrones.

I'm glad it looks like the Loras/Cersei betrothal is finally over.

With his talk about everything Tywin built for them and sticking together to protect it, it was like Jaime was becoming the son Tywin wanted him to be, taking charge of the great Lannister legacy. Maybe that's his reaction to accidentally having an indirect role in patricide. He's not wrong about their enemies, other than Pycelle and immediate family, who really had cause to mourn Tywin's passing? The Tyrells definitely see an opportunity.

Mance was great in his ending scenes, but I feel he wasn't being much more reasonable than Stannis. He sent raiders and cannibals over the wall to terrorize the North, having his fighters kill Bolton's men instead seems like a fair bargain. I understand why he had to fight instead of begging nicely to hide behind the Wall in the first place, but doing all that and getting defeated doesn't come with getting to name the terms of how they get to hide behind the Wall, I wouldn't think. He's already a NW oathbreaker and didn't appear to have any better ideas of how to make an alliance, like say suggesting his people would be better used finding a way to defeat the ultimate enemy and helping the poorly-manned Night's Watch. No wonder he can respect Stannis when they're both stubborn past the point of sense.

All the reaction shots of people watching the burning reminded me of the blood eagle scene on Vikings last year. Of course Stannis and Selyse thought this was appropriate viewing for their child.

Edited April 13, 2015 by Lady S.

[jenny2682]

 

Shitting, vomiting, naked people in every other scene, drunken dwarfs, gruesome deaths, and dragons still in transit, our favorite show is back in fine form.

 

Amen to that. That statement, while just reading it out right is terrifying it is so true. If it was said about any other show I would not watch that show, horrified it was snuff porn. This show is like crack. Brutal, viscous, sex laden, dwarf alcoholic, incest laden, psychopathic king crack. And I love every second of it. 

 

My favorite and my babygirl Sansa, I fear for her. I know most don't like her but the girl has been on her own with no one to truly look after her and I hope she does not lose her humanity and become a Cersei 2.0. Just looking at Littlefinger around her gives me the shivers. I know she  is learning to play the game, but those around her know how to play it better AND have no conscious. She will always lose because of that simple fact. I hope she does realize that after seeing what has happened to her family. Her kind, noble and now decimated family.

 

I missed Arya, Jon Snow kicked ass and I want to hang with Varys and Tyrion. As long as it is not in a box.

[Andromeda]

So am I the only one who thought Dany should have allowed the fighting pits - minus the "to the death" part. Didn't seem that hard to come up with.

All they have to do is invent a new game...with a stadium...and maybe teams...and perhaps a...ball?

[fantique]

Oh! I forgot that I particularly loved Mance throwing shade at the Targaryens (+ Robert and Joffers) by saying that Stannis has more sense than all the rulers in the last 300 years (ie, since the Iron Throne was made by Aegon the Conqueror).

[Taget]

Great episode but the one character who I couldn't stand last season was Olly. Though a lot of that had to be with how heavy handed I found his story line. With the wildlings reduced to cartoonish stock villains ("I'm going to eat your mommy and daddy!") and Olly's story arch rendered instantly predictable. So wasn't all that excited to see him back. Hopefully we'll be seeing less of him and more of Dolorous Edd.

The episode also reminded us why having a city guard (like they have in King's Lady) is so valuable. The skill sets needed to enforce law and order in a city and the skill sets needed to conquer cities, nations, and empires are completely different.

The Unsully are highly sklled and highly valuable at what they do. Parading them around the city to do a job they are completely untrained for sounds really stupid. Organize the people who actually live in the city to police their own folks and then you can actually move out and move on. But I guess Dany has Iraq envy and wants to do things the hard way. Just hopefully she won't deplete her army before it's needed to actually fight actual wars.

[ElectricBoogaloo]

When Jamie and Cersei were near Tywin's corpse, it made me nervous.

During that scene, Mr. EB asked me if Cersei + Jaime + family member in a coffin meant that we were going to be stuck with another very inappropriate sex scene.

 

those eye rocks on Tywin are soooo creepy!

SUPER creepy. At first glance, I thought they had left his eyes open. The eye rocks were the slightly (only slightly) less creepy option.

 

Did anyone's heart go out to the poor bastard paying for a cuddle? Sniff.

That made me so sad. This guy has been trained to be a heartless killer and all he wants to do on his break is get some snuggles.

 

Margaery checking out her brother's boyfriend's butt while he was strolling around naked was hilarious. I like that she's all about practicality. She doesn't want Loras to get rid of this guy. She just doesn't want them to look bad for being late to dinner and make the in-laws mad.

 

I was afraid that the elevator door on the wall would open and Stannis would find Jon with his hand on Melisandre's boob. I figured after he said he wasn't a virgin, he was safe (unlike poor Gendry). Then I thought ehh, maybe Melisandre thought, "Wow, this elevator ride is taking longer than I thought it would. So bored. Nothing to do. Maybe I'll let this kid touch my boob just for funsies."

[peggy06]

Pretty good episode. No Theon/Ramsey was a major plus.

 

I've always liked Mance, probably because the actor is just so good. Last season he showed himself to be a true leader. This episode, I'm wondering. He was great in his scene with Jon, but I have to disagree with his ultimate decision. Who is going to lead the free folk now? What's going to happen to them? Wasn't this the whole point, to get away from the White Walkers? Jon was in the right of it, all Mance's work was about to be undone. For a principle. Stannis may have looked like a jerk for insisting that Mance bend the knee, but Stannis actually had a point. You see all over Westeros what happens when there are divided loyalties. If there's going to be a king, there can only be one. Did he have to execute Mance? Perhaps, to show that he meant it. He was cruel to use burning. I knew Jon was going to shoot Mance after their conversation about that manner of dying. Good for him. No doubt it'll rebound in some way, but Jon is proving to be quite the leader. I think he can deal with Stannis. (Melisandre, I don't know.)

 

Why do they make Dany so stubbornly dumb? She's in way over her head, and needs better counsel from someone she respects. Issuing ultimatums and saying you're the queen just doesn't cut it. She is obviously so spooked by what Drogon did to the child, that it's making her weaker. I am intrugued at the thought of her meeting with Tyrion and Varys, though.

[seacliffsal]

Dany's scenes just really killed the pace of the show for me.  She's way too immature and um, not smart, to be a competent ruler.  Daario was correct in saying that the dragon queen without dragons will not be queen for long.  Also, she made it way too easy for people to come up with a plot to kill her dragons (not a book reader so it's just an idea).  I think Varys is grasping at straws as without being able to control her dragons, Dany is not a queen who is qualified for the Iron Throne.

 

Everything else flew by it was so engaging.  I really didn't recognize Lance until some of you pointed it out (THANKS!).  I just thought it was another cousin who she had had sex with at one point (I mean, really, isn't that what she does?).  

 

The Brienne and Pod scene made me think that Brienne is just inept and incompetent.  In watching episode 4.10 right before this episode I was reminded that she made the first move towards the Hound and that she really didn't have any good answers about why she had "Lannister Gold" and why Arya would be better off going with her.  She's loyal but other than that I don't have much.  Pod has also been loyal to her but she keeps brushing him off.  As much as I started out liking her I just am not invested in her at this point.

 

Sansa seems to be learning from Littlefinger as well as her past experiences.  I really think that in the long run she would be a much better queen than Dany.  Dany has been able to use the threat of dragons to gain her cities and followers, Sansa will learn to use a completely different set of persuasive skills.

 

Now, Jon Snow....how did he get so hot in between the seasons?  He has really developed during his story arch.  And it is easy for me to now see the leadership qualities in him that show he was raised by Ned Stark.  The differences between Ned and Stannis were so clearly illustrated in this episode.  Ned did his own 'dirty work' to bring dignity to an execution/death whereas Stannis has someone else do it.  I think that was the breaking point for Jon when he decided to let Mance die with some dignity.  Jon has also learned to use all of his life experiences in working with others.  Respect for the wildings.  And I did notice that he was calling them the free people rather than the wildings.  His story is fascinating me.  And, along with others....stay away from the redhead Jon...

[Morrigan2575]

If Dany takes the Throne I'm going to be hella pissed off, she's a horrible leader/ruler.  She's an idiot and has gotten everything way too easy, she hasn't learned defeat and sacrifice (and yes, I know she lost her husband/child) but so have many people in this war.  The thing is, she really needs a massive humbling or else she'll be a piss poor ruler just like Robert Berathean.  Actually she lends herself towards the fanatical so I could see her being even worse, it could be as bad as putting Mel on the Throne.

 

I'd be more willing to back Stanis if I didn't think he'd allow Mel to convert the masses to the Lord of Light by any means necessary.  It wouldn't be surprising if it happened, hell it would reflect real world history, with monarchs forcing subjects to convert to else.  However, I really don't want to see it.  I really hope Stanis finally gets rid of Mel but that doesn't seem likely at this point.  Maybe Ser Onion Knight can push her off the wall?  I have a massive tendency to check out of anything Jon Snow related, horrible actor but having Stanis up there actually makes The Wall story a bit more interesting.

 

Loved the very brief glimpse we got of Sansa/Little Finger, really curious to see how this progresses, Sansa seems to be learning quite a lot from Little Finger, I really hope that in the end she finds a way to become a major player in the Game.  At least one Tully/Stark needs to have more brains than honor or brawn.

 

It'll be interesting to see Cersei completely lose it, she seems to be on the verge of going totally Bat Shit Crazy with Geoffrey and Tywin dead and blaming Tyrion for both (OK, he did kill Tywin).  Between the death of those she loved, her utter hatred of Tyrion and her potentially losing control of the 7 Kingdoms with Margerie making moves on poor little Tommen.  She's going to have an epic meltdown and it shall be glorious. 

Edited April 13, 2015 by Morrigan2575

[nachomama]

I second the nomination to see Cersei go completely bonkers and have Tyrion kill everyone with a crossbow saying "say hello to my little friend". 

 

I hate Sansa with so much white-hot fury for her early stupidity, I'm annoyed that she's gaining some respect from me. 

[SimoneS]

I can't get over Dani abandoning her dragons to that dark hole. She never went to visit or comfort them? She does not deserve to be called the Mother of Dragons. Daario is advising her well. She should listen to him  more. I have liked the actor who plays Daario since he was on Treme.

 

Poor Tyrion. He is a hot mess at the moment. I am glad that Varys is with him. Jaime needs to hoof it from King's Landing and go find Brienne. So Lance has joined a cult. Hilarious. Hopefully, Cersei gets sucked in also.

 

I am not a Natalie Dormer fan, but Margeary is wonderful. She is carefully building her bond with Tommen, while nonchalantly eating fruit while tossing out her brother's lover/prostitute/whatever. Tommen is a nice boy, compared to Joffrey anyway. I hope that he does not end up dead.

 

Ah, Mance. That scene reminded me of a similar burning alive scene from The Last of the Mohicans. Whatever Melisandra is up to, it will not end well. Jon Snow needs to stay far away from that lunatic.

 

The dancing around with Missandei and Grey Worm is ridiculous now. He has got a tongue and fingers which are more than enough. Plus, I am sure that there are dildos all over that city. They need to just get to it.

Edited April 13, 2015 by SimoneS

[terrymct]

I didn't see Sansa, either.

 

Sansa was beside Littlefinger, both watching Robin learning to use a sword and later in the carriage.   She was very grey, both her clothes and her skin color, and her hair was dark, as well.

 

 

This is the same woman who wanted to consummate her marriage to Renly by having Loras in the room as a fluffer. I suspect their relationship hasn't had many boundaries for a while. 

 

...and still their sibling relationship isn't a fraction as weird as Cersea and Jamie.  On the scale of Game of Thrones, they're among the healthy ones.

Edited April 13, 2015 by terrymct

[Sakura12]

Sansa learning from Littlefinger, I don't know if that's a good thing or a bad thing. 

 

What did you expect Dany, when you leave dragons chained up in the dark. Of course they are going to be pissed. I didn't like that they made her run out of their scared. Fire can't hurt her, she should've kept going and apologized to them. She can't be a queen without her dragons, that is they are the only things she has going for her. She's a terrible leader otherwise. 

 

I'm glad Jon shot Mance, let a man die with dignity Stannis and stop listening to the red headed witch for everything. People will think they are supposed to follow her, not you. 

 

I love Natalie Dormer, so Margeary scenes are great. She hooked poor Tommen, that boy's hers now and Cersei knows that. I love the Loras and Margeary relationship. We don't get to see many good family interactions anymore. 

[Constantinople]

I thought Stannis's offer was quite reasonable. Roose's head on a spike? Yes, please! Just make sure Ramsey is included on that kabob.Give the Wildings lands, freedom, and citizenship in exchange for a little tussle with the Boltons? Sure! Like I said in my earlier post, Mance's death was so unnecessary. Without him agreeing to the bargain, what will happen to his people just beyond the Wall? They're sitting ducks trapped between the Wall and the advancing White Walker horde. I think most of them would've agreed to join Stannis's army if it meant safe passage through the Wall.

 

 

Mance was great in his ending scenes, but I feel he wasn't being much more reasonable than Stannis. He sent raiders and cannibals over the wall to terrorize the North, having his fighters kill Bolton's men instead seems like a fair bargain. I understand why he had to fight instead of begging nicely to hide behind the Wall in the first place, but doing all that and getting defeated doesn't come with getting to name the terms of how they get to hide behind the Wall, I wouldn't think. He's already a NW oathbreaker and didn't appear to have any better ideas of how to make an alliance, like say suggesting his people would be better used finding a way to defeat the ultimate enemy and helping the poorly-manned Night's Watch. No wonder he can respect Stannis when they're both stubborn past the point of sense.

While the means of his death was gruesome, even for an oath breaker, I'm not particularly sympathetic to Mance. He wanted the benefits of living on the safe side of the Wall with none of the responsibilities.

[RadiantAerynSun]

<3 so happy my show is back. A former Unsullied here (broke down and read the first 3 books finally over the break). So switching boards. Will write more later. Enjoyed the premiere with a Game of Thrones themed feast with friends!

[Pete Martell]

Well...that was the premiere.

 

I tend to prefer Walking Dead when characters are split up, because I feel like this gives more of a chance for character exploration and insight, and new relationships.

 

I tend to prefer GoT when characters are together, because when they are split, it's little but random people literally wandering around here, there and everywhere, looking miserable, having no purpose. I like Brienne well enough, but I had no real interest in seeing her pop up for a minute to look annoyed and depressed and tell Podrick to fuck off. We got that about 5 times last season. Now that Arya (mercifully MIA in this episode) is going to have a story beyond sour-faced strolling, I guess Brienne has taken her place? No thanks.

 

The lack of energy that really began creeping up last season was still present and accounted for, and for the first time I thought the show also looked cheap. I'm not sure if they made budget cuts to help pay for Dorne, or if it was the decision to blacken every redhead in the cast, but most of the locations looked drab and like they were standing in front of greenscreen. (the main exception was the gorgeous shot of the steps as Cersei was on her way to Tywin's funeral).

 

Anyway...

 

The good:

 

- Cersei. The flashback benefited from superb casting for young Cersei, and while I didn't think the future reading had the impact it could have had (I thought the woman playing Maggy was a little bland), it was still a good insight into the woman she is today. I also thought her scene with Lancel, as stupid as ever, but made quite a bit hotter by religious fundamentalism, was perfect. I still think the show has done a terrible job with her relationship with Jaime, but their scene was thankfully brief, and I can't say she was wrong in berating him.

 

- Jon and the Wall. I could have done without that weird "are you a virgin?" scene with Mel (although I would prefer to believe this is for some purpose beyond her wanting the dick), but otherwise the grim life and moral division between what is right and what must be worked. Ciaran Hinds and Kit Harington did some strong work in that last scene where Jon tried to get him to come around about Stannis. I also liked that they had Stannis and Melisandre treating Mance respectfully (you know, aside from burning him alive), instead of being made into caricatures. And Jon, doing what was right and damn the consequences, killing Mance with bow and arrow (which I will take as an homage to Ygritte), was a good way to end the episode.

 

The "eh":

 

- Well, I had a good laugh at whoever came up with the idea to have the Meereen prostitute show off her lady parts and then have the Unsullied say, "Not that much." This was someone's clever attempt at getting all the goods oncamera but trying to feign modesty, I guess.

 

The Unsullied's murder was a genuine shock moment and a good way to introduce the threat Dany and her army faces. Everything with Dany in this episode was essentially ticking off a box - regret and doubt over dragons, struggles to lead Meereen, struggles to accept that her pure and ideal vision of harmony under thumb is not the way life will be. It was decent enough, and Emilia is decent enough at playing it. I can't say I'm enthralled, but it's OK.

 

I know Dany needs a talk-to, but I wish they'd found someone, anyone as Daario that she would have had chemistry with. The only memorable thing about Daario continues to be that he has a flat ass.

 

- Tyrion and Varys. The only reason I didn't put this in "bad" is because I like Varys and am happy to see him in a more central role. I'm bored beyond belief with Tyrion, his pouting, his drinking, his pity parties, and his "profound" dialogue that is sure to be plastered all over tumblr, Twitter, AV Club and IGN and other review sites. "The future is shit, just like the past." Just like your scenes since the end of season 2, Tyrion. If only the show would have the guts to write this character out. I see no purpose for him at this point. Oh well.

 

- Sansa and Littlefinger. It was serviceable, not much to remember, but then, it wasn't intended to be. I wish they'd had more of a unique relationship between Sansa and Robin, or any relationship at all, but I did laugh at Robin having to learn swordfighting. One thing I noticed in this episode, not for the first time, is that Sophie Turner and Aiden Gillen don't have much chemistry together - Sophie's chemistry with everyone in King's Landing made her time there one of my favorite parts of the show.

 

The bad:

 

- Everything with Loras. Horse shit would be a kind word for it. The idea that a man who had been so full of ambition, who knew something of the score and what you should and shouldn't do, and who is the sole male heir of the Tyrells, a whip-smart family who know all about appearances, would decide he can just get dick anytime he wants and who cares about what anyone says - I do not buy it. It was ludicrous in season 3 and it's even more ludicrous now, given the obvious instability of King's Landing and the realm. I also do not believe he would be doing this with Olyvar, who betrayed the family in season 3 and ruined their plans for Loras to marry Sansa. I do assume Margaery or Olenna would have realized it, even if Loras does not.

 

And while I'm at it, the scene where he "comforted" Cersei was also poor and pointless. They both know their relationship is a sham. He wouldn't have bothered and she wouldn't have let him prattle on. It was an unfortunate attempt at comedy on a show that seems to have lost more and more of its ability in that area.

 

I'd give the episode a C. What worked worked, and the rest lumbered along like a half-asleep relative waiting for the service to be over.

[Constantinople]

If Tyrion doesn't drink himself to death on the Road to Meereen, perhaps he can pass on some wisdom to Daenerys that a kindly, little old lady once gave him, "The people crave distractions, and if we do not provide them, they'll create their own. And their distractions are likely to end with us being torn to pieces"

[Puffaroo]

- Strategic prop placement, body positioning, and camera angles to hide male genitalia, but plenty of male bare butt shots.

 

 

Female full-frontal nudity but no male.  Stoopid.

 

I like the actors, but are they really going there with Grey Worm and Missandei?  I would think the whole no reproductive organs thing would kill the mood.

 

Do we know for sure he doesn't have a pecker?  Castration is frequently only the testicles, and I remember reading elsewhere that if that's the case, the other equipment can still work.

 

I had the disturbing thought that Sansa and LF may be sleeping together. I certainly wouldn't put it passed this show to go there with them.

 

 

I don't think there's any doubt -- that look that passed between them when he was handed the message, and her turning her head back to the front, showed that he has her under his thumb.

[nksarmi]

If Dany takes the Throne I'm going to be hella pissed off, she's a horrible leader/ruler.  She's an idiot and has gotten everything way too easy, she hasn't learned defeat and sacrifice (and yes, I know she lost her husband/child) but so have many people in this war.  The thing is, she really needs a massive humbling or else she'll be a piss poor ruler just like Robert Berathean.  Actually she lends herself towards the fanatical so I could see her being even worse, it could be as bad as putting Mel on the Throne.

 

I'd be more willing to back Stanis if I didn't think he'd allow Mel to convert the masses to the Lord of Light by any means necessary.  It wouldn't be surprising if it happened, hell it would reflect real world history, with monarchs forcing subjects to convert to else.  However, I really don't want to see it.  I really hope Stanis finally gets rid of Mel but that doesn't seem likely at this point.  Maybe Ser Onion Knight can push her off the wall?  I have a massive tendency to check out of anything Jon Snow related, horrible actor but having Stanis up there actually makes The Wall story a bit more interesting.

 

Loved the very brief glimpse we got of Sansa/Little Finger, really curious to see how this progresses, Sansa seems to be learning quite a lot from Little Finger, I really hope that in the end she finds a way to become a major player in the Game.  At least one Tully/Stark needs to have more brains than honor or brawn.

 

It'll be interesting to see Cersei completely lose it, she seems to be on the verge of going totally Bat Shit Crazy with Geoffrey and Tywin dead and blaming Tyrion for both (OK, he did kill Tywin).  Between the death of those she loved, her utter hatred of Tyrion and her potentially losing control of the 7 Kingdoms with Margerie making moves on poor little Tommen.  She's going to have an epic meltdown and it shall be glorious. 

If Danny chooses two husbands and they are Tyrion and Jon Snow (I know Nights Watch but whatever) AND she listens to them - she will be just fine lol.  Those three would be the perfect mix of what it would take to rule.

[DarkRaichu]

I can watch Tyrion & Varys show all day long.  Seriously, just narrate the whole GoT storylines from their snarky point of views and I will be content with it :D

 

Oh Danny, "I am a queen, not a politician" Really?  Even Ser Barristan rolled his eyes on that line :P

 

On Sansa's new hair.  See Dexter season 8? This is what people on the run do, they AT LEAST change their hair color.  Ehem, ok carry on

 

 

So does GoT now equal no more female main casts going au natural ? Even Danny did the "I cover myself after the did with these sheets" thing, which was out of character given what we saw in previous seasons 

Edited April 13, 2015 by DarkRaichu

[LaughingOne]

I thought 5.01 was a strong start and set the table well for the season.  I'm pretty excited that some of our various protagonists are starting to interact, not just in war, but in potentially forming alliances.  

 

I especially can't wait for the Dany, Tyrion and Varys dynamic.  Dany is in way over her head at the moment and she could use some smart, strategic people around her who aren't afraid to challenge her - Tyrion and Varys fit that bill nicely.  I still think she has potential to be a good leader because she has backbone but isn't a tyrant.  However, she has A LOT to learn, and with Jorah gone, she doesn't have anybody to help her get better (sure Daario gave her some good advice last night, but he doesn't have the breadth of intellect and strategic thought to really guide her).  So, I'm excited to see what could become a potential alliance with Tyron and Varys.

 

It was also good to see Jon Snow continue to define himself.  I haven't ever actively disliked him, but he was just so meh until the very end of season 4.  5.01 showed that he has potential to become interesting.  I'm sure Mel will probably mess him up for awhile, but he has some growing up to do and learning to deal with shrewd, manipulative crazy people like her is probably good for him.

 

Cersei continues to be deliciously horrible.  I'm already salivating at the idea of a Cersei and Margaery showdown - who to root for?  I'm also looking forward to whatever Cersei is going to do to try to "save" Myrcella.  As much as I enjoy watching her just sitting around and snarking, I need her stirring up trouble.  And hopefully, we continue to see a divide between her and Jaime - they're both at their best when they're not together. 

[JTMacc99]

Jon Snow!! I loved all his scenes. He's become quite the leader and still so very compassionate and honorable. Mance's death was so unnecessary and awful. I was peaking through my fingers and was about to mute the volume once Mance started coughing and crying out, but then Jon shot him with the arrow. Never have I been more relieved to see someone take an arrow to the heart. But Stannis & Mel are going to be most displeased.

. 

I got the feeling that Mel is going to cut Jon some slack even if he messes up the occasional burn somebody to death night festivities.  And Stanis will just do what Mel says. 

[Rocket]

Love that the show is back. 

 

If Danny already had the wisdom to do the job many would call her a Mary Sue (a term that should stay to describe author avatars in fan fiction, meaning a to good to be true character). They are trying to make Danny more human by having mistakes and immaturity to go with the very necessary ego someone who would be Queen must have. This allows a character improvement type of story.  If Tyrion and Varys make it too her there is the wisdom and intelligence network she needs to develop into a great leader. 

 

Danny is both right and wrong depending on what definition of politician is being used. She is right in that she is assuming the role though historical claim and military power she is not a politician. But she is wrong in that to get and keep power she must play politics as described quite well by Varys in his story about the sellsword. Power is just a shadow on the wall and politics is how you cast a shadow.

[DrSpaceman]

In regard to Dani taking the throne, I take it she would be more a figurehead in the envisioned scenario by Varys with Tyrion making most of the actual decisions. 

 

Hopefully, at least

 

It was a decent opening episode, basically set the stage for the upcoming season, who is on whose side, etc.

I can watch Tyrion & Varys show all day long.  Seriously, just narrate the whole GoT storylines from their snarky point of views and I will be content with it :D

 

Oh Danny, "I am a queen, not a politician" Really?  Even Ser Barristan rolled his eyes on that line :P

 

On Sansa's new hair.  See Dexter season 8? This is what people on the run do, they AT LEAST change their hair color.  Ehem, ok carry on

 

 

So does GoT now equal no more female main casts going au natural ? Even Danny did the "I cover myself after the did with these sheets" thing, which was out of character given what we saw in previous seasons 

 

 

I thought I ready she has refused to do more nude scenes as Dany, though I could be wrong.

[proserpina65]

I thought Stannis's offer was quite reasonable. Roose's head on a spike? Yes, please! Just make sure Ramsey is included on that kabob.Give the Wildings lands, freedom, and citizenship in exchange for a little tussle with the Boltons? Sure! Like I said in my earlier post, Mance's death was so unnecessary. Without him agreeing to the bargain, what will happen to his people just beyond the Wall? They're sitting ducks trapped between the Wall and the advancing White Walker horde. I think most of them would've agreed to join Stannis's army if it meant safe passage through the Wall.

 

Mance's army (or its various parts, anyway) might've accepted the offer if Stannis made it to them directly, but Mance was only able to unite the various clans of wildlings by making them respect him, and he'd lose that respect by bending the knee to Stannis.  Mance knew that the wildlings would reject any offer he accepted from Stannis, simply because they'd no longer respect him enough to work together.

Shut up, Mel! You've already won; you're about to burn Mance alive. There's no need to belittle him in front of his people that are prisoners of your lover

 

Mel's a true believer - she simply can't help herself when it comes to lecturing others about 'the one true god'.  That's her whole deal.  (At least for now, anyway.  Who knows if there's more to her later.)

[Constantinople]

If Danny already had the wisdom to do the job many would call her a Mary Sue (a term that should stay to describe author avatars in fan fiction, meaning a to good to be true character). They are trying to make Danny more human by having mistakes and immaturity to go with the very necessary ego someone who would be Queen must have. This allows a character improvement type of story.  If Tyrion and Varys make it too her there is the wisdom and intelligence network she needs to develop into a great leader.

True, but bread and circuses is pretty basic politics.

Does she plan to ban tournaments in Westeros should she ever take the Iron Throne?

[Ottis]

Is that a new actor for Lancel?

 

 

I thought that was Gray Worm (new actor, with more muscles) at the beginning who was murdered at the brothel, and I thought he was set up by Dany's handlady, so I was really confused until Gray Worm showed up.

[Constantinople]

Cheer up Olly.

I'm confident you could beat the crap out of Brave Lord Robin.

[JTMacc99]

I'd like to think that the Daenerys stuff is just the story of her learning how to be a leader before actually getting her chance to sit on the Iron Throne.  And not, you know, the story doing a bad job of making me think she's capable.

 

She, like the dragons, still has some growing up to do.  She's got the power but doesn't necessarily know how to use it correctly in every scenario.

 

And by the way, Varys is of course correct.  Tyrion is exactly the right guy to add into her stable.  He shares her compassion, but he would never wield the power she could command.  She shares his compassion, but she doesn't have his nose for politics. It is hard to imagine that this isn't where the story is going, but what do I know?  He's liable to get eaten by a lion on the trip there the way this show works.

[terrymct]

- Cersei. The flashback benefited from superb casting for young Cersei, and while I didn't think the future reading had the impact it could have had (I thought the woman playing Maggy was a little bland), it was still a good insight into the woman she is today. I also thought her scene with Lancel, as stupid as ever, but made quite a bit hotter by religious fundamentalism, was perfect. I still think the show has done a terrible job with her relationship with Jaime, but their scene was thankfully brief, and I can't say she was wrong in berating him.

 

 

I was happy to see Lancel, as he seems to be the first Lannister other than Tyrion to develop some sort of conscience.   I'm sure he'll die horribly and in short order.

Edited April 13, 2015 by terrymct

[Ottis]

I'd like to think that the Daenerys stuff is just the story of her learning how to be a leader before actually getting her chance to sit on the Iron Throne.  And not, you know, the story doing a bad job of making me think she's capable.

 

 

ITA. I want to be interested in Dany, because ity appears she will be important to the wider fight for the throne at some point. But man, it is painful. The mooning over her boyfriend, the petulance, the inability to think through even the simple concept of "dragons abandoned in the dark by their mom = angry dragons when you come back." At what point does she show she has grown?  

[Chief Queef]

Co-signing on Mance's death being unnecessary. He couldn't have even discussed Stannis' deal with the Wildlings first? These folks have been fighting for a long time, is it impossible to think some of them might be okay with signing up for one more battle in exchange for sunny retirement homes? The fact he made his choice so quickly and without consulting anyone made it seem more like a point of personal pride rather than consideration of everyone's best interests. Oh well.

Feeling Varys/Tyrion's scheming and plotting so hard right now and looking forward to their trip to Mereen which will hopefully give that dragging storyline a boost. How many boring throne room scenes do we need to establish that Dany is better at conquering than she is at ruling? Also, I wonder whose payroll her boy toy is on? He's certainly full of "advice" lately, all of which she seems to take with zero grains of salt. Did she learn nothing from that whole mess with Jorah? And why is she so surprised her kids are throwing tantrums after she locked them up in a damn cave for a month? Get it together Khaleesi.

And, umm, Missandai and Grey Wolf? You don't need a dick to pleasure a woman or have a relationship, kids. Don't you have any lesbian friends who can enlighten y'all?

[JTMacc99]

 At what point does she show she has grown?  

I think a connection with Tyrion would certainly do the trick for me.

 

Since this is a set-up episode, I think it is worth mining the details for clues.  And it sure feels like these facts are telling us something:

1) Varys telling Tyrion that he has his father's nose for politics.

2) Dany shitting on that guy trying to play out some politics to get the fighting pits back.

3) Varys convincing Tyrion that they should go meet her.

4) Daario Nopants telling her that she is making a mistake by not opening up the pits.

[DarkRaichu]

I thought I read she has refused to do more nude scenes as Dany, though I could be wrong.

 

Heh, I thought that excluded "creative" shots but it seemed to be decently covered or nothing.

[DarkRaichu]

4) Daario Nopants telling her that she is making a mistake by not opening up the pits.

 

Speaking of that conversation, I thought it was a writing hickup when Dario talked about how he grew up in the pit and then jumped to saying Danny was a mother of dragons without dragons.  Shouldn't he close his pitch about the pit before mentioning dragon ?

[JTMacc99]

Speaking of that conversation, I thought it was a writing hickup when Dario talked about how he grew up in the pit and then jumped to saying Danny was a mother of dragons without dragons.  Shouldn't he close his pitch about the pit before mentioning dragon ?

Very good point. I forgot about that, but I had a similar thought. He was telling her about how he disagreed with her decision. Then he said something about showing weakness (or strength).  She countered with how she had the unsullied patrolling the streets. And then they went to "you're not the mother of slaves, you are the mother of dragons."

 

The whole conversation went from "you're not doing the politics thing correctly" to "just unleash the dragons and you can pretty much do whatever you want."

[LuciaMia]

 

Was I the only one who thought the line about "Gold will be their crown..

No, I thought the exact same thing. That's what made Eddard Stark suspicious that they weren't the King's biological children.

************

Kinda sounds like the beginning of a joke.."Why did the Unsullied go into a brothel?"

 

I didn't realize that they'd been castrated.

[SimoneS]

If Danny chooses two husbands and they are Tyrion and Jon Snow (I know Nights Watch but whatever) AND she listens to them - she will be just fine lol.  Those three would be the perfect mix of what it would take to rule.

 

I see Daenerys married to Jon Snow, not Tyrion, but if she appoints Tyrion, Varys, Margeary, and Daario as advisors, I agree that she will be just fine. After all, no monarch is perfect and all knowing. Daenerys has made mistakes, but I chalk it up to naivete. 

Edited April 13, 2015 by SimoneS

[Winnief]

I cannot agree more that Tyrion entering Dany's storyline will do *wonders* to make it more interesting-and we can only hope possibly spur some character growth as well. 

[One Tough Cookie]

And thank the Gods, no BRAN!

[meep.meep]

So that's how you get a credit, even after your character has been killed off!

 

The guy playing Lancel has been going to the gym.  A lot.

[LittleIggy]

 

Why do they make Dany so stubbornly dumb? She's in way over her head, and needs better counsel from someone she respects.

Like the character Iain Glenn played (forgot his name!). She needs him back.

[Andromeda]

True, but bread and circuses is pretty basic politics.

Does she plan to ban tournaments in Westeros should she ever take the Iron Throne?

I think her main issue is fighting to the death. She should be able to tell them they can fight, but not to the death. But I gather that wouldn't satisfy the blood-thirsty inhabitants of Meereen.

[Calamity Jane]

Interesting that last season the story Oberyn told about how he was told Tyrion was a scary devil baby but he wasn't scary at all and this season we have Cersei telling a similar story about how she was told that the witch was scary but that she found her boring. Man, kids sure have high expectations in Westeros.

Loved all the Tyrion/Varys scenes. I don't doubt that Varys still has all kinds of schemes up his sleeve but I liked seeing him be so honest with Tyrion about what his goal is right now.

Bless Jon Snow for having the compassion to shoot Mance with an arrow so that he wouldn't be remembered screaming as he feared.

Ha, Loras was amusing this week. Between his ridiculous condolences to Cersei and his response to Margaery's advice that he try to be a bit more discreet, I am enjoying Loras,

Lancel, on the other hand, was about to get pushed out of that window by Cersei. He'd better watch out or he's going to learn how to fly soon.

I think Lancel is not long for the world after reminding Cersei that he helped her get rid of Robert.  He can't go running around proclaiming his former sins without implicating her, so I'm guessing, yes, he will soon be flying in some fashion. 

[morgankobi]

 

I don't understand why Tyrion's hair gets darker each season, and in this episode you could see his dark roots.

 

No Clariol in that crate.

 

I hope Varys and Tyrion get to Dany soon. If it takes all season, I'll be very unhappy.

Edited April 13, 2015 by morgankobi

[magdalene]

I don't like Dany, part of my dislike comes from the actor being weak IMO and the other part is that she is such a Mary Sue. She needs to be knocked down several pegs and suffer a lot more to "earn"  being a ruler.  And insanity runs in her blood, maybe if she sits on the Iron Throne eventually she'll lose it like Daddy and burns down Kingslanding. 

 

I am rooting for Sansa too because the irony is just too delicious to resist.

[Dobian]

How much do you want to bet if Tyrion had snuck in to view Tywin's body, as he looked into his father's stone-covered eyes, Tywin would have sprung back to life and strangled him?

[SoWindsor]

I don't think there's any doubt -- that look that passed between them when he was handed the message, and her turning her head back to the front, showed that he has her under his thumb.

I don't believe LF and Sansa are sleeping together.....yet. That would be a huge thing in their relationship and don't see that happening offscreen.

I do wish Daario and Dany had more chemistry. I loved her and Drogo's scenes. They should've done more chemistry testing.

It seems like Mance stayed alive for a few more seconds after getting the arrow to the heart. I would've thought it would be instantaneous.

Edited April 13, 2015 by SoWindsor

[Calamity Jane]

I see Daenerys married to Jon Snow, not Tyrion, but if she appoints Tyrion, Varys, Margeary, and Daario as advisors, I agree that she will be just fine. After all, no monarch is perfect and all knowing. Daenerys has made mistakes, but I chalk it up to naivete. 

My sons says Jon and Daenerys are the Ice and Fire of the title.

[pandora spocks]

Like the character Iain Glenn played (forgot his name!). She needs him back.

 

 

I miss Jorah Mormont.  Dany's new advisor is too much the rock star to suit my tastes.  Jorah made his more-than-fair-share of mistakes but I believe that he grew to respect (and love) Dany and gave her the best advice.  What do we really know about Dario?