S05.E14: Spend

[NoWillToResist]

After all of that, the thing that I keep coming back to with this episode is anger. I am angry at the show for those two horrifyingly graphic, traumatic deaths via walkers. I don't know why these two deaths affected me so much. I didn't give a tinker's damn about Aiden but I can't believe that they just left him there. They couldn't have spared him a bullet to save him knowing what it felt like to literally be ripped apart? Not cool. And the focus on his agonized face as he looked up at the ceiling while his insides were removed? No. Don't need that much detail, thanks.

And Noah? Fuck. I liked the kid well enough but didn't think I'd be much affected when he was eventually killed off, but Jesus. That was unnecessarily graphic and horrifying. I have trouble believing that Glenn couldn't look away and thus we were forced to watch Noah's face be slowly peeled back from his mouth while a walker had its finger in one of his eyes. Christ almighty. And were both Noah and Glenn not strong enough to prevent the ASZ jerk from pushing them back towards the lobby?

 

Nice to see Eugene finally step up (though I don't understand how Tara was so badly injured).

 

Carol's behaviour with Sam in the house was weird. Her line delivery was very...affected? Stilted? It really took me out of the scene.

 

And Sam's dependence on cookies is worrisome. :D

 

If Deanna spares a fucking second on Gabriel's warning about CDB, I will have to roll my eyes. When a person's opening arguments are mutterings about Satan, you should take whatever follows with extreme skepticism, IMO.

 

Nice to see Abraham back in action, saving that lady and giving the others shit for abandoning her. Good for Tobin to step up and indicate that Abraham should be in charge of the construction crew. If only other characters were so aware of their strengths/weaknesses...

 

But what was with Abe's two...mental breaks? The one in front of the mirror and the one at the construction site. Were those panic attacks? Was he having alcohol withdrawal? I didn't understand what was going on with that.

Edited March 17, 2015 by NoWillToResist

[hacman00]

Why did Maggie stand there silent? I would have gone off on him. I would have made it known he locked his parishioners out of the church, that their group saved him, that their dangerous group saved him again from cannibals that they had just escaped from, and saved him again when he had to go check out their 'story'. He would have been in tears for real when I got done with what I had to say. If I was Maggie.

Because deep down she kind of agrees with him.

[shanti]

I know we've only seen the teenage son of Jessie and Pete a couple times, but he sure doesn't act like a kid who knows his mom is being abused. Of course the actor may not have been given that info as a direction yet.

That is a really good point!

[lulee]

 

Why did Maggie stand there silent? I would have gone off on him. I would have made it known he locked his parishioners out of the church, that their group saved him, that their dangerous group saved him again from cannibals that they had just escaped from, and saved him again when he had to go check out their 'story'. He would have been in tears for real when I got done with what I had to say. If I was Maggie.

Because deep down she kind of agrees with him.

There could certainly be an element of that. She and Glenn wanted to distance themselves from the church sneak attack sneak attack, after all. So I don't discount that, but a simpler explanation - that she was just waiting to hear what he was saying before interrupting -- may be at play. Plus then the conversation between Gabriel and Deanna was interrupted when Glenn arrived back. So we don't know what Maggie might have done if the scene had lasted another minute.

Edited March 17, 2015 by lulee

[kikismom]

I didn't like that season so much.  I generally dislike it when someone wins with that strategy.  I saw it when Tina rode Colby to the finish in Australia, and when Natalie did the same thing riding Russell's coattails to victory in Samoa.  What's the Walking Dead equivalent, Father PP?  That would suck, him rising to power as the others wipe each other out.  Apocalameness.

Sorry, I was just playing about how people don't know how ASZ has managed to make it so far with all the danger around...hmm?

[blackwing]

I am really over the show telegraphing a character's death by giving said character the tiniest bit of development. Stop. it. The fact that it was an African American character makes it in ever worse. Argh.

But this could just as easily have been said about Abraham.  As soon as he was shown staring hauntingly into the bathroom mirror, I thought he was going to die.  He's a tortured and haunted soul trying to make peace with the world.  Then he makes his peace and bites it.  But it didn't happen.

 

Also, Aidan died and we barely knew him.  No character development whatsover, just a jerk from start to finish.

[hacman00]

There's definitely going to be a split with CDB.  Rick and those that want to take over vs Michonne and those that want to try and assimilate.

But this could just as easily have been said about Abraham.  As soon as he was shown staring hauntingly into the bathroom mirror, I thought he was going to die.  He's a tortured and haunted soul trying to make peace with the world.  Then he makes his peace and bites it.  But it didn't happen.

 

Also, Aidan died and we barely knew him.  No character development whatsover, just a jerk from start to finish.

Aidan started to lighten up a bit in this episode.  He gave Glenn his props, there was a focus on his relationship with his parents, and he confesses and tells Glenn to leave him.

 

I know a lot of people hate FPP right now and want him to die but trust me they'll have to wait until he gets redeemed.

[kj4ever]

But this could just as easily have been said about Abraham.  As soon as he was shown staring hauntingly into the bathroom mirror, I thought he was going to die.  He's a tortured and haunted soul trying to make peace with the world.  Then he makes his peace and bites it.  But it didn't happen.

 

Also, Aidan died and we barely knew him.  No character development whatsover, just a jerk from start to finish.

There was a little character development that could have been interesting with Aiden as he actually admitted Glen was right about the perimeter check.  Nicholas looked like WTF when Aiden said it.  I think knocking him on his ass might have woke him up a bit, but we'll never know now.

[AndySmith]

 

I know a lot of people hate FPP right now and want him to die but trust me they'll have to wait until he gets redeemed.

 

Which...ugh. That we'll have to wait that long, I mean.

[Constantinople]

How the town has survived so long is a mystery to me.  Plenty of monsters out there -- the human kind -- who would tear into Alexandria like a school of starving barracuda unleashed on a sheep trying to cross the river.

I thought barracuda were salt water fish.

 

 

I remember the Survivor season with Rob and Amber, how she won with her strategy of the shark and the pilotfish, how the pilotfish which cleans the shark is the only fish safe from the shark, it tends and befriends and serves the shark and is rewarded by not being preyed upon.

Does this mean Daryl is Lexx?

Because that would be bad for Rick.

[flutist4fun]

After all of that, the thing that I keep coming back to with this episode is anger. I am angry at the show for those two horrifyingly graphic, traumatic deaths via walkers.

I agree it was disturbing, but...because the group is so cool about killing walkers now, I sometimes forget that they still live every day with the threat of being eaten alive. Noah's death brought that home to me again, more than Tyreese's or even Bob's, I think because it was so horrifying. They're not just a bunch of cool badasses, they're people who live with this constant terrible fear. Glenn having to watch is just symbolic of the price they all have to pay for continuing to live.

Edited March 17, 2015 by flutist4fun

[ghoulina]

I know a lot of people hate FPP right now and want him to die but trust me they'll have to wait until he gets redeemed.

 

I don't know. FPP and his betrayal confound me, but for some reason I don't get the feeling he is going to be redeemed. I think he is the ultimate coward who will never admit his faults or lies and will just die a coward. 

[Nursejen]

Have we seen one of our people get eaten by a huge mass of walkers before? I can only think of ones who had a single bite. Plus, Glenn being so up close made it hit home. That, and the fact that Noah seemed like such a good, genuine guy who was starting to move past his grief a bit and look towards the future. Argh, darn show playing with our emotions like always.

[mandolin]

It depends on who you think of as "one of our people." Jimmy, Patricia, Otis were all eaten by a pack.

[chlban]

They really need to establish another system. If "one of them", even in the broadest sense, like say Aiden, is being eaten alive, for god's sake,  A bullet to the head. Please.

Edited March 17, 2015 by chlban

[ghoulina]

They really need to establish another system. If "one of them", even in the broadest sense, like say Aiden, is being eaten alive, for god's sake,  A bullet to the head. Please.

 

I'll be honest. I could care less about Aiden. That entire thing was his fault. In a situation where there are walkers everywhere, every bullet counts. This might sound cold, but I wouldn't waste a bullet on him. He left people behind to die before, fuck him. I mean, maybe if I was close enough I could knife him. But I'm not wasting precious ammo on that ASZhole. 

[lulee]

I'll be honest. I could care less about Aiden. That entire thing was his fault. In a situation where there are walkers everywhere, every bullet counts. This might sound cold, but I wouldn't waste a bullet on him. He left people behind to die before, fuck him. I mean, maybe if I was close enough I could knife him. But I'm not wasting precious ammo on that ASZhole. 

Plus the fact that even reanimated he probably would have stayed impaled on that rebar.

[editorgrrl]

If Deanna spares a fucking second on Gabriel's warning about CDB, I will have to roll my eyes. When a person's opening arguments are mutterings about Satan, you should take whatever follows with extreme skepticism, IMO.

 

If somebody's telling you what you want to hear (no matter how stupid), it's human nature to want to believe it. And I wouldn't be surprised if Deanna's personal assistant, Maggie, agrees. Maggie & Glenn were clearly Team Gabriel when CDB fought the Termites in the church. And they're heavily invested in finding a safe haven in which to raise a family.

[AndySmith]

Maggie & Glenn were clearly Team Gabriel when CDB fought the Termites in the church.

 

How so?

[Samx]

Hmm, I'm surprised that some people are reacting so negatively to the way Noah and Aiden's deaths were portrayed. I certainly didn't feel like it was "too much" or took the gore too far. I think I read somewhere in this forum or in an article (sometimes I get confused because the posts in this forum are so well written) that Aiden's death scene was an homage to a scene from Romero's Day of the Dead. Even barring that, I thought it was kind of cool for Aiden (a bit player on this show) to get such a gruesome send off. Honestly, same for Noah. I knew his death was coming because some stupid network decided to release the news of TJW joining a network show as a regular in the fall well before this episode aired. However, I think the gruesomeness of his death was an important reminder to us (and Glenn) of what the walkers are capable of and how bloody awful (sorry) it is when the walkers get a hold of someone. I didn't stay up to watch all of TD but maybe TJW was psyched to be obliterated - like if you're only going to be on TWD for a short time, you wanna go out in a memorable way.

ETA: Full disclosure, I grew up loving movies like Dawn of the Dead, etc. so I am probably more psyched to see guts than others, and I get that. 

 

Agreed that I might not waste ammo on Aiden but I always wonder - wouldn't he have gone into shock or passed out after the first few bites? Not sure if he'd still be cognizant and screaming with half of his body torn off. 

 

I think it'd be such an interesting twist for Jessie to be the abuser BUT since we see where the Rissie BS is going, I doubt it. However, I'm starting to think Pete's abuse may be limited to Sam and may be some kind of sexual abuse. He's insisted TWICE that Rick bring the kids over for an exam, and the first time did come off in a pedo way even though he made light of it. Ick. 

Edited March 17, 2015 by Samx

[RedheadZombie]

"stop, you're killing me! haha no seriously..."

There was an article about the amount of spousal abuse in some of NYs wealthiest homes...the husband knows he never has to go to jail like regular people, and the wife knows it too.

Now think about Alexandria Safe Zone--- Dr. Porchdick's very obvious alcohol problem must be known to everyone--- and is tolerated without a word of reproof.

 

Even when he's drunk in the day, when people are going on run outside the walls, when he could be needed to operate.

 

Tell me, if you are an abused wife or child, and you see that no one says boo to Pete because he is the only doctor...what do you suppose would happen if the town knew of anything else he did wrong?

Same thing. Nothing.

 

...because no matter what he does he is still the only doctor. So for all the suggestions about putting him in another home, or locking him up....come on!

 

What do we see in our own world right now?

 

It isn't what you do, it's who you are.

And that isn't even with the threat of living without the protection of the community from walkers or rapey gangs.

If anyone gets moved out it would be the wife, anyone banished to the outside it would be the wife.

She isn't necessary in a pragmatic way, her husband is...no matter what else he does. When you know that, and you want to be with your kids, and stay in a walled shelter with them...you don't walk around crying or being noticeably withdrawn and frightened. Because Deanna isn't going to say, you don't seem well, are you okay? Deanna is going to say you don't seem well, you need to be a team player, suck it up for the team, a little personal sacrifice is worth it for the greater good...

 

I agree with everything, except perhaps the last two sentences.   I need to wait and learn more about Deanna.  It's very possible that Deanna would banish Pete, and Jessie is keeping silent to protect him.  Banishment = death.  I doubt even Carol (at that time) would have asked CDB to send Ed out to his death.  It's possible that Deanna doesn't know about the abuse.

 

Now, let's consider Deanna does know about the abuse.  Of course Pete is probably one of the most valuable members of the group.  He has knowledge no one else shares.  So it's very possible that Deanna looks the other way regarding the abuse, because they can't afford to lose the doctor.  But she's not powerless here.  It's a two-way street, and as much as the town needs Pete, Pete needs the town.  He'd survive maybe five minutes outside drunk.  This makes me think that the previous four people Deanna banished were bad news to earn exile.  If Deanna is ruthless enough to threaten to throw an abused woman out of the community, she's certainly ruthless enough to threaten the doctor, as well.  As in - stay sober (and keep your hands to yourself) or you're out of here.  A man who's cowardly enough to beat his wife and children, would never be bold enough to respond, "prove it".

 

I'm going to be a little pissed if it turns out Deanna knows and allows the abuse.  This would be the second female leader who allows, if not encourages, helpless women under her authority to be victimized.  I hope the show doesn't go there.  Even the governor treated his people better - well until he mowed them all down, of course.  I do think it's telling that, rather than protecting her son, he was expected to go out and risk his life.  And I may very well be wrong, but I don't think Deanna is going to automatically blame our group for Aiden's death.  Noah died as well.  Now maybe if our intact group returned and both Aiden and the other coward were killed.  I could see her having a problem with that.

 

I get what is so frustrating. But perhaps Maggie knows Deanna wouldn't focus on the Father PP bio as much as the Maggie-eavesdrops-on-Dear-Leaders-private-conversations (that's supposed to be Deanna's right as cult leader) .

Don't forget, neither we nor Maggie know yet what will be done about it. Suppose Deanna goes to her husband and says You won't believe what that fucking idiot was prattling on about! Dammit,he's so full of shit!

Maggie might not need to use information---or goodwill---that might come in handy later.

I know a lot of viewers want CDB to tell about what they have done and fought outside, and not doing so could lead to a contrived misunderstanding.

Possibly!   But it's a risk I might take; I would not be able to forget that as nice as Aaron was, he certainly did not tell everything.

The construction crew and the supply run teams did not tell everything---for instance what if CDB had been told at first about "the system"?

 

I was glad Maggie didn't march in and confront him.  I don't think Maggie is impulsive like that.  I think informing Rick, and determining a measured response, is the wiser course.  And as you say here, Deanna may dismiss his claims.  But CDB can keep the knowledge about FPP. 

 

It's possible that I'm blinded by Deanna because of her appearances on L&O.  I don't think she's evil (as some are predicting), and I don't think she's as stupid as some think.  If she believed FPP, she would have been concerned that what he said was possibly overheard by others - I'm sure she knew Maggie was somewhere inside the house.  If she thought he was honest, she would have shown more concern for his emotional stability, and maybe worried about his safety inside the group.  Who knows, maybe Deanna doesn't say a word to CDB, but decides FPP will go out on the next run - problem solved.

 

I do think that this is why our group has never revealed what they experienced.  It's possibly to cause distrust with Deanna.  For every member of the group not to mention Governor/Merletones/Termites/Grady, they would have conspired as a group not to do so.  I think that's enough to make even a good leader suspicious.  Even if this community is as straight forward as they present themselves, I'm sure there are members who have whispered to Deanna that she shouldn't trust them, or give them important positions.  If so, what FPP said could make her second guess her decisions regarding CDB.

[Evie]

If somebody's telling you what you want to hear (no matter how stupid), it's human nature to want to believe it. And I wouldn't be surprised if Deanna's personal assistant, Maggie, agrees. Maggie & Glenn were clearly Team Gabriel when CDB fought the Termites in the church. And they're heavily invested in finding a safe haven in which to raise a family.

I don't know that they were Team Gabriel after CDB fought the Termites so much as they were Team Hope. Glenn said as much at the beginning of 5B when he said that it took Washington falling through and Beth dying for him to finally catch up to Rick. That's when Michonne started with the WTF we've been out here too long spiel. Glenn's no Rick. It will be interesting to see what his state of mind is after Noah's death though.

[Dr.Jacoby]

Is your name from Twin Peaks? Pete says hi...

It is indeed! (I'm not sure we ever met in canon so hi Pete, nice to meet you ;)

[ghoulina]

Maggie & Glenn were clearly Team Gabriel when CDB fought the Termites in the church. And they're heavily invested in finding a safe haven in which to raise a family.

 

I've seen so many people say this, but I really do not agree with it. I do agree that the brutality of what happened might have shocked Glenn and Maggie a bit. But I think their shock was just at the overall situation. I don't think they were looking at Rick and Abe (and whomever else was involved?) as if they were now monsters or something. I never thought Glaggie left because they wanted to distance themselves from CDB. I thought they did it to de escalate things and appease Abraham. They said they would go before the massacre, and they were going to honor their words. But I've never seen anything since then that would show any sort of camaraderie with FPP, or disapproval of Rick and the others. In fact, after it was over, didn't FPP make some sort of comment about this being a holy place, and Maggie basically rolled her eyes at him? 

 

Those freaks ate Bob. They would have eaten all of them. I don't think Glenn and Maggie agree with FPP at all. I hope I'm not proved wrong. 

[gutbuster]

Have we seen one of our people get eaten by a huge mass of walkers before? I can only think of ones who had a single bite. Plus, Glenn being so up close made it hit home. That, and the fact that Noah seemed like such a good, genuine guy who was starting to move past his grief a bit and look towards the future. Argh, darn show playing with our emotions like always.

T-Dog got eaten buffet-style at the prison :(.

[AndySmith]

didn't FPP make some sort of comment about this being a holy place, and Maggie basically rolled her eyes at him?

 

Yes, and she did it beautifully.

 

Those freaks ate Bob. They would have eaten all of them. I don't think Glenn and Maggie agree with FPP at all.

 

Seriously. They knew Bob has his leg cut off and eaten by them. They were threating the people who stayed behind in the church. I mean, it isn't like there were other viable suggestions at that point on what to do with Gareth and his crew.

[RedheadZombie]

 Maggie & Glenn were clearly Team Gabriel when CDB fought the Termites in the church. And they're heavily invested in finding a safe haven in which to raise a family.

 

I've seen so many people say this, but I really do not agree with it. I do agree that the brutality of what happened might have shocked Glenn and Maggie a bit. But I think their shock was just at the overall situation. I don't think they were looking at Rick and Abe (and whomever else was involved?) as if they were now monsters or something. I never thought Glaggie left because they wanted to distance themselves from CDB. I thought they did it to de escalate things and appease Abraham. They said they would go before the massacre, and they were going to honor their words. But I've never seen anything since then that would show any sort of camaraderie with FPP, or disapproval of Rick and the others.

 

Those freaks ate Bob. They would have eaten all of them. I don't think Glenn and Maggie agree with FPP at all. I hope I'm not proved wrong. 

 

I agree with all of this.  People were shocked by Rick/Sasha/Abraham/Michonne - not because they didn't agree with them killing the Termites, but because it was complete overkill.  Maggie, Glenn, Tara, and Tyreese, were shocked by the slaughter, but it was only FPP who self-righteously told them they were wrong.  They've only ever killed humans out of necessity.  The Termites needed to die, but it was shocking to see R/S/A/M relish the task.  Rick had a breakdown after tearing out Joe's throat, and he only did that because Carl was being raped before his eyes.

 

In fact, after it was over, didn't FPP make some sort of comment about this being a holy place, and Maggie basically rolled her eyes at him?

 

Isn't that when she responded - No, it's just four walls and a roof?  No way is Maggie sympathizing with FPP, before or after.  She doesn't respect his cowardice, she's irritated with his proselytizing, and she's a good judge of character.

[English Teacher]

...and what really burns me up about FPP is that he went to the school to see if what happened to Bob Was true and SAW THE LEG!!!! He sees how much they care and support each other and yet he calls them evil? no death for him can be horrific enough.

[editorgrrl]

People were shocked by Rick/Sasha/Abraham/Michonne - not because they didn't agree with them killing the Termites, but because it was complete overkill.  Maggie, Glenn, Tara, and Tyreese, were shocked by the slaughter, but it was only FPP who self-righteously told them they were wrong. 

 

When CDB fought the Termites in the church, Glenn & Maggie stood off to the side, making horrified faces at Rick, Sasha, Abraham & Michonne. In my book, that's choosing Team Gabriel over CDB.

 

I hope I'm proven wrong, but nothing in this episode's scene with Gabriel, Deanna, and Maggie contradicts my impression. And in my opinion, the scene was constructed to continue the ambiguity. Right now, either of us could be right.

 

I speculate that Maggie is team Deanna and Glenn will follow. If she lives, Tara will, too.

[Nutjob]

 

I speculate that Maggie is team Deanna and Glenn will follow. If she lives, Tara will, too.

IMO, I think Maggie desperately wants to be team Deanna. She wants this idea of a "normal" community to be real so she can allow herself to think about a future with Glenn. Whether or not she can keep that idyllic image of ASZ is a different story, especially if these people continue proving themselves ill-prepared and living in a bit of a fantasy world.

[lulee]

I speculate that Maggie is team Deanna and Glenn will follow. If she lives, Tara will, too.

I wouldn't be surprised if it ends up being a source of conflict between Glenn and Maggie. I think Glenn's going to return from the run very disenchanted with the ASZ Administration.

[Pixiebomb]

I tell you what, whoever casts this show's kids is a genius. Carl actually looks like Rick and Lori's son. Like for real. And Ron....When they arrive at the party Ron is in front of his parents and he is the spitting image of them.

(What happened to the quotes? I'm sorry to the OP - I meant to give you credit for the above).

And LAK looks just like Lori and Shane. Wait....

ETA because I lost the quotes. Sorry.

Edited March 17, 2015 by Pixiebomb

[raven]

 

Hmm, I'm surprised that some people are reacting so negatively to the way Noah and Aiden's deaths were portrayed. I certainly didn't feel like it was "too much" or took the gore too far.

Neither did I.  More than we usually see on the show, but that's it.

 

I don't think Maggie came in when Father Gabriel was talking because 1) usually, if you can overhear someone talking about you and your friends, you continue to eavesdrop and 2) she wanted to hear Deanna's response.   I think it's better to think it over than to confront him right then and there.  

[hacman00]

Team Rick

Carol

Carl

 

Team Deanne

Glenn

Maggie

Michonne

FPP

Tara

Rosita

Eugene

Abraham

 

On the Fence

Sasha

Daryl

(As of now they'd be on Team Rick but something tells me that the writers will have Aaron and Deanne get them to switch sides)

Edited March 17, 2015 by hacman00

[Dodginblue]

Team Rick

Carol

Abraham

Carl

 

Team Deanne

Glenn

Maggie

Michonne

FPP

Tara

Rosita

Eugene

 

On the Fence

Sasha

Daryl

(As of now they'd be on Team Rick but something tells me that the writers will have Aaron and Deanne get them to switch sides)

 

I don't know, I hadn't really thought about it like this, Team Deanna vs. Team Rick so it's interesting.  I find it hard to believe that anyone would line up with Deanna other than Father Gabriel (who she should promptly reject if he does).   

 

If it is going to happen, if some of the group is going to turn on Rick and side with Deanna i hope that there will be some significant event that makes it understandable.   People are tied to each other in the ZA world  by their shared experiences in the desperate struggle for survival.  It's like the guy, Martin, in the cabin with Tyreese said, he didn't have any friends, he just had these a-holes he stays alive with.  And when Tyreese didn't kill him and let him go, he found Gareth and the others and stayed with them. Even though he had encouraged Tyreese to take Judith and "just go".  When he had that chance he didn't do that.  He went with who and what he knew, that had kept him alive up until then.

 

And the people at the hospital, they offered to let anyone in Rick's group stay if they wanted to and Rick offered the same and nobody wanted to switch sides.  Better the devil you know and all that.

 

I get that ASZ is pleasant and there's hot showers and beds to sleep in and apparently lots of booze and fresh strawberries.  But I don't think they've been there long enough to form a reasonable belief that somehow Deanna has a better shot at insuring their survival than Rick does.  

 

And I also remember the look on Maggie's face when Gareth's mom turned around and offered them something to eat, how happy and pleased she was, how quick to believe they'd finally found a refuge.  If she didn't learn from that experience, shame on her.  

 

I wouldn't be surprised if there are people in the ASZ group who would side with Rick over Deanna.  

Edited March 18, 2015 by Dodginblue

[MrsRafaelBarba]

Have we seen one of our people get eaten by a huge mass of walkers before? I can only think of ones who had a single bite. Plus, Glenn being so up close made it hit home. That, and the fact that Noah seemed like such a good, genuine guy who was starting to move past his grief a bit and look towards the future. Argh, darn show playing with our emotions like always.

T-Dog , Jimmy ,Otis and Patricia were devoured by packs of walkers.

But in those cases, nobody stayed around to see the entire carnage and aftermath.

Due to being trapped in the revolving doors, Glen witnessed it all.

Start to finish.

[Evie]

I'm not sure I get the Team Rick vs. Team Deanna stuff. I would think the majority of CDB just want to feel as safe as possible. Sturdy walls, lookouts, people who can handle guns and won't get people killed from incompetence and/or cowardly actions. If Deanna can step up and try to make that happen, fine. If not, I don't see anybody from CDB being against Rick taking over.

[NoWillToResist]

I don't think Maggie came in when Father Gabriel was talking because 1) usually, if you can overhear someone talking about you and your friends, you continue to eavesdrop and 2) she wanted to hear Deanna's response.   I think it's better to think it over than to confront him right then and there.  

 

Yeah, IMO if you catch someone in your group trash-talking you, you don't interrupt; you wait to see exactly how much they say...and wait to see how their words are taken by the listener. It's far more strategic for Maggie to NOT reveal that she knows FPP went to Deanna.

[hacman00]

I don't know, I hadn't really thought about it like this, Team Deanna vs. Team Rick so it's interesting.  I find it hard to believe that anyone would line up with Deanna other than Father Gabriel (who she should promptly reject if he does).   

 

If it is going to happen, if some of the group is going to turn on Rick and side with Deanna i hope that there will be some significant event that makes it understandable.   People are tied to each other in the ZA world  by their shared experiences in the desperate struggle for survival.  It's like the guy, Martin, in the cabin with Tyreese said, he didn't have any friends, he just had these a-holes he stays alive with.  And when Tyreese didn't kill him and let him go, he found Gareth and the others and stayed with them. Even though he had encouraged Tyreese to take Judith and "just go".  When he had that chance he didn't do that.  He went with who and what he knew, that had kept him alive up until then.

 

And the people at the hospital, they offered to let anyone in Rick's group stay if they wanted to and Rick offered the same and nobody wanted to switch sides.  Better the devil you know and all that.

 

I get that ASZ is pleasant and there's hot showers and beds to sleep in and apparently lots of booze and fresh strawberries.  But I don't think they've been there long enough to form a reasonable belief that somehow Deanna has a better shot at insuring their survival than Rick does.  

 

And I also remember the look on Maggie's face when Gareth's mom turned around and offered them something to eat, how happy and pleased she was, how quick to believe they'd finally found a refuge.  If she didn't learn from that experience, shame on her.  

 

I wouldn't be surprised if there are people in the ASZ group who would side with Rick over Deanna.  

 

Well I should have clarified.  These "Teams" are based on the assumption that Rick will make good on his promise to, "Take this place over," violently.

Edited March 18, 2015 by hacman00

[Dodginblue]

Well I should have clarified.  These "Teams" are based on the assumption that Rick will make good on his promise to, "Take this place over," violently.

 

Which would be another thing that hopefully will be very well written so it's understandable, that he's reacting with violence to people who so far haven't shown a great deal of ability to protect themselves against it.  

[tennisgurl]

I would hope that Ricks first plan would be trying to change the community, without taking it over through violence. The way I saw the scene where he said they could take the place over if it came to that, was more of a "just in case" sort of thing. They didn't want to get compliant, which we see that the Alexandians clearly have. 

[hacman00]

 

Which would be another thing that hopefully will be very well written so it's understandable, that he's reacting with violence to people who so far haven't shown a great deal of ability to protect themselves against it.

 

He'd be no different than when Shane wanted to take over Herschel's farm.  Or the Governor trying to take the prison.

Edited March 18, 2015 by hacman00

[meep.meep]

And LAK looks just like Lori and Shane. Wait....

 

I think she looks more like Otis than anyone else who's ever been on the show.  She has his roundness of face, pale skin, and lack of hair.

 

If we have to make up a Rick+Jessie name, my votes on Jeck.  Much better than Rissie.

[AngelaHunter]

Father PissyPants didn't think Rick et al. were so horrible when they saved his worthless ass, more than once.

[queenanne]

To me that's kind of disturbing and it's a sign that he's way too comfortable with threats. Mileage varies.

 

I thought it was more because little boys, left to their own devices, are deliciously bloodthirsty at least about fictional stories.  If you're that kind of boy, Carol's tie-you-to-a-tree threats could very well sound like a Hansel & Gretel adventure story.  Because Sam may be sheltered and untried in the ways of the ZA world, and thus maybe it can be an adventure story in his mind; and/but whatever else he is, he's got gumption in the bargain.  He's not scared to rummage around a stranger's home, and he doesn't bat an eye at stealing the chocolate either.  If anything, if we were applying modern non-ZA psychology, we'd say and assume that Sam was a kid neglected by both parents, because those are the kids who will chitchat and bond with anyone.  You want a kid who regards strangers with suspicion first and acceptance later.  And I clearly don't think that's the story they mean to tell us, what with the owl garage and all it seems more like Jessie is meant to be Bohemian Bonding Mom, but it would make for a twist.

Edited March 18, 2015 by queenanne

[Iguessnot]

 

As silly as it may seem to us that these people are dressing up and going to parties, I think humans will always try to form communities and live a life similar to the ones they had in easier times.  There are people living in war zones who go to work, get married, have babies, send their children to school.  They gossip, look at magazines, polish their finger nails.  It's just human nature.

Yes, humans will do that, but the ASZhats, don't display any of the caution or hardness of people living under a war zone. It was completely a suburban cocktail party. Even the Governor, who liked his facades, had his henchman patrolling the gates.  

 

 

But what was with Abe's two...mental breaks? The one in front of the mirror and the one at the construction site. Were those panic attacks? Was he having alcohol withdrawal? I didn't understand what was going on with that.

I thought Abe was going to bash his head on the edge of the truck. I was seriously tense. 

[TexasChic]

I think the purpose of having Pete be so insistent about bringing the kids in, is to show his domineering, controlling nature. I think he wants to demonstrate his oh-so-important purpose in their society, and then have Rick be undyingly grateful to him. That's how I took it anyhow.

[tennisgurl]

Abe still clearly has issues...

[hacman00]

I think Abe was psyching himself up for the inevitable Zombie attack.  He's trained himself to notice things like Birds suddenly taking off as a sign that there are Zombies about.  Once he heard the scream he knew it was "go time."

[melanie]

I have not posted in a long while, but I have enjoyed reading everyone's observations.  Usually by the time I read them, I don't have much to add.  

 

I want to know where Judith is.  Whose job is it to take care of her? 

FPP is the worst and most evil kind of person there is.  As a viewer, there can be no redemption from his treachery at this point.  As several others have observed, he was completely projecting his sins on the rest of the group.  Saying that they would eventually choose themselves over the ASZ people was ridiculous.  He chose himself always.  It is truly nauseating.  I go back to the first meeting with Rick where Deanna says that she would like to be a part of his family because it was obvious that he would do anything to save them.  I hope that turns out to be true.  

I don't think it is true that our group brings about destruction on others.  We have been given hints that not all is well in Alexandria.  Having to exile members -- what was that all about?  

I really wish that Rick would at least address, as constable, a plan if someone dies inside the walls and turns.  That seems like it would be a better use of his time than looking for the sculpture vandal.  Having gone through this before at the prison and no one being allowed to have guns, it could get really bad, really fast if someone dies there.  

On the subject of Maggie and FPP, she was the one who brought up to him his cowardice in leaving his congregation outside the church to be eaten alive while they were on the road to DC.  I don't think she is team FPP at all.

 

Those are my thoughts for now.