S04.E15: Enter The Dragon

[Camera One]

Does anyone even understand what the point is of stopping the villains from finding the author? I mean, if they all get happy endings then they wouldn't be running around whining about how their lives are so hard and what not. We know Regina doesn't have a freaking clue what her happy ending is and I doubt these other people do either, so why not just let them find the guy and let him write them a happy ending? The author storyline is just so boring and nonsensical that I just want it to be over with.

 

Regina told them after her night "undercover" that not only do they want to find the Author, they want to "shift the entire balance so heroes lose and villains win".  Because the Author can apparently do that too.

Edited March 16, 2015 by Camera One

[woolmintons]

You know, before 4B started, I didn't like the idea of Hook seeking revenge on Rumple again, but after tonight's episode? I want Emma and Belle to hold him down just outside the town line while Killian stabs him with a dreamshade-laced hook. I actually thought for a minute that Will was the rose until they showed Belle on the phone with him.

When the heck has David H. Goodman ever written a young Regina fairyback? Didn't Regina claim in some episode she felt like a prisoner in the castle, and she's literally WALKING around to neighboring kingdoms/castles? She's like mid-twenties in this at the least and she's throwing a tantrum about Snow's riding ribbons and cursing her poor horse? Are we supposed to applaud the female friendship between Maleficent and Regina? Get up, get dressed, and get out there and start cursing and murdering people! You can do it! Get that revenge! What a waste of Sarah Bolger and Sebastian Roche.

Part of me thinks Emma's worrying so much about Woegina was OOC/OTT and the other part thinks Emma was going crazy because no one's taking her advice at ALL, she's having to push for anybody to give her information or be included (Note that Regina only wanted Snow to meet her at the library), her parents AND Regina are gaslighting her, and maybe, just maybe, Emma has no faith that Regina can avoid temptation and not go dark again and that it would destroy Henry. And if that is the case, they're doing a piss poor job at showing us that. I think the only reason she agreed to let Regina take Pinocchio at all was because Emma thought she would be right behind them and be able to jump in, and Regina totally screwed her (as she is prone to do) by leaving the phone. Regina - your plan with the author is LITERALLY THE SAME as the Queens of Darkness! Stop acting like it isn't!

 

Colin as Rumple!Hook was hands down the best part of the episode for me. I loved (HATED) it in 4x12 and now they've upped the creep factor from kissing girlfriends to intimate touching of friends/ex-wives, oh yay!

In 2x01 Aurora told Philip something along the lines of "I told you not to come after me!" which absolutely does not fit here. They also apparently took Cora's wedding dress and added some chiffon and gave it to Aurora. YES, I NOTICED, EDUARDO, I NOTICED. That's how bored I was with this episode. I was most interested in hunting down a wedding dress from two seasons ago.

 

 

[stealinghome]

I actually don't mind that the heroes are freaking out about the villains getting to write their happy endings; I'd be freaked out too if I was in their shoes, at least for a second.

 

The bigger logic problem, for me, is that if the Author is so incredibly all-powerful that s/he can dictate everyone's lives at a whim...what the hell do the villains think they're going to do to him/her, exactly? If they try to storm his/her house or whatever, can't s/he just write on the handiest napkin "the villains are now in Timbuktu" and zap, they'll be in Timbuktu? Or write "the villains will be unhappy forever" and then the Author is magically safe because their happy ending would include killing/torturing/whatever the Author? Regina talks a big game about "convincing" the Author to give her a happy ending, but she's verbally slipped enough that we all know that she would try to use force if s/he refused, and the Queens/Rumpel probably won't even try asking. But...has it occurred to none of them that if the Author is so all-powerful, and able to control them like puppets, barging in and making threats won't do anything? What leverage do the villains have, exactly?

 

This is why I can't even with this storyline. The more you think about it, the more it falls apart, and at best at this point it's going to make everyone involved look like giant morons. Or the end will be twisted so beyond all logic that it will make this show's previous ridiculousness/plot holes/etc. look like child's play.

Edited March 16, 2015 by stealinghome

[Camera One]

I'm guessing they will get around this by showing that the Author doesn't write the specifics, he only "wills" that heroes wins and villains loses (that's his only job), while the animated pens (much like that stupid walking broomstick) do all the work.  But now the Queens of Darkness and Rumple will knock the Author out (because the pens are his only weapon, and so we can have one of the Queens say, the sword is mightier than the pen), and the villains will steal the Magic Pens, so they can "will" that heroes lose and villains win, and that will happen.

 

It makes no sense is how Rumple is making assumptions about The Author when he apparently had no idea the person existed until he talked to Regina in that car, and Regina herself just came up with the idea out of thin air.  

 

The whole Author idea was vague enough in 4A, but they have done nothing to clarify it except add on more layers of "huh?".  

[KAOS Agent]

But couldn't the author write the villains their happy endings, get them the hell away and then rewrite it when they've gone? This is all assuming that he doesn't just make a record of what actually happens and is in fact this giant puppet master who likes to fuck with people's lives. It's just so stupid. Sometimes I can handle the stupid plot because I enjoy certain character moments. At this point, the characters are so far from even remotely enjoyable that I'm starting to hate myself for watching. So yes, I think I may need an intervention too. 

Edited March 16, 2015 by KAOS Agent

[FurryFury]

Well, better than the last episode... Not that it's hard to be, really.

I actually kinda enjoyed EFL scenes, and I generally prefer Young Regina to the present one (especially with Rumple, I miss this pairing too much - it's one of the few relationships the show has yet to ruin). Although the scene with Aurora was too short and felt very anticlimactic.

 

As for SB scenes, resounding meh. Didn't really like any of them. Poor Belle, tricked once again by Rumple. Weird he would choose Hook, of all men, to do it.

 

This test concocted by Cruella was the stupidest thing ever. Seriously? I thought they'd have Regina kill somebody innocent or something. Would make more sense.

 

Lana Parilla looks WAY hotter with the fake hangover. I think it's the hair.

 

Way more LesYay between Regina and Maleficent than I've ever seen with her and Emma.

 

Emma wanting to get in on Regina's operation would make more sense if her motivation was being afraid Regina will turn for real. Otherwise, I'm starting to be more and more tired of her continuing character assassination in order to prop Regina. Like mother, like daughter, I guess.

[justcris]

I'm so close to giving up on this show, this episode did nothing for me. 

I figured out the Rumple/Hook twist as soon as he asked about the dagger, and I saw Eion Bailey's name in the credits so I knew what would happen with Pinocchio by the end of the episode.

Also, Regina's "tests" were too dumb to be true. 

[Mari]

I call foul on the Hook to Rumple transformation. When he transforms, Rumple's head is at the same height as Hook's. The camera should have panned down or something. Maybe Rumple kept Hook's legs and just transformed his upper body and I'm going to stop thinking about this now because my mind is going in an inappropriate direction. 

I assumed that he only transformed for the viewers, not in Storybrooke.  I figured the same thing in those scenes after he visited Belle at the store, and then walked down the sidewalk.  It helped a little.  (Only a little.)

 

-So Regina shouldn't be meeting Snowing out in the woods because it's too dangerous that they might get caught together...so by all means let's have our next meeting in the effing library. Stealth.

Yes.  And there are phones all over town.  They couldn't have just phoned?  Much less chance of being caught with the wrong person on the phone.  Plus, if you are, you can always claim you're keeping tabs on them.  Harder to do that if you're obviously, badly, "clandestinely" meeting in places like the library.  (Also, if you don't deliberately drop your phone, you could text a person or two.  Take away suddenly crazy Emma's, instead.)

[ElectricBoogaloo]

I love how on this show you can tell who the Big Bad is by who is showing the most cleavage (see: evil Regina, Maleficent, Snow Queen, Blue Fairy).

So Maleficent was Ke$ha before Regina?

Thanks to old school Glee, I read that as Ke dollar sign HA!

 

I’m sorry, but I just couldn’t handle how overdramatic Emma was being with Regina and the undercover plan. Oh my god she didn’t call and it’s been one hour! Oh no! Drop everything and freak out! She dropped her cell phone! The sky is falling! Jesus Christ, Emma. You and Regina were the ones who willingly allowed those bad guys to come into town. And seriously, you and Regina aren’t that close of friends yet. Have we ever seen Emma freak out that much over her own parents? Or how about the numerous times your boyfriend goes missing on a regular basis and you barely bat a fake eyelash? Get a grip, woman. I could understand Emma freaking out like that over Henry, but not Regina.

Seriously. You'd think that Emma, of all people, would understand that when you are undercover, you can't always adhere to strict schedules. If the people you are trying to befriend want you to do something, you can't say, "Uhhh, maybe later? I have to, uhh, go do, uhhhh, something that's totally not suspicious!" A whole hour for a grown woman who is infiltrating a group of evil witches is late enough for Emma to clutch her pearls dramatically but half the people in her life disappear or show up late pretty regularly and it's no big deal despite their penchant for getting kidnapped, knocked out, or put under spells.

 

How long before Rumpel kidnaps Hook, breaks up him and Emma, and embarks on a new romance with Belle using Hook's guise?

I'm spoiler free and even I saw Rumple as Hook a mile away as soon as he asked where the dagger was. Loved the look on his face when Belle called Rumpel and he turned his head, as well as the evil smile after she drove away. Despite the obviousness of Rumple's ploy, I did love Belle and Hook together. As creepy as the above scenario would be, at least it would be more interesting than the boring non-storylines Hook has had this season. Edited March 16, 2015 by ElectricBoogaloo

[Rhodri]

 

But couldn't the author write the villains their happy endings, get them the hell away and then rewrite it when they've gone? This is all assuming that he doesn't just make a record of what actually happens and is in fact this giant puppet master who likes to fuck with people's lives. It's just so stupid. Sometimes I can handle the stupid plot because I enjoy certain character moments. At this point, the characters are so far from even remotely enjoyable that I'm starting to hate myself for watching. So yes, I think I may need an intervention too.

I think someone pointed this out to the writers and they realized they had to give the queens a BAD reason to want happy endings ie. heroes get bad endings to give the heroes a reason why they must be stopped  (instead of just a reason to showcase Regina being a hero).

They are so wrapped in their own personal fanfiction now (Hook touching Belle's breast!) that they just throw out anything as a sort of excuse to get to their next vignette: Rumpel is doing too well so we need to throw him a curve... we'll say Belle is now with... um who is single...  who do we not have anything to do... WILL... they have zero chemistry... whatever, it works in our fanfiction.

I think the show is surviving on the director, actors, and production staff doing really excellent work with the crap writing they are being given and we are all still waiting for the promise of the season 1 to flower.

I'm still sadly waiting for Grumpy's happy ending with Astrid and just hoping for a glimpse of Red.

Edited March 16, 2015 by Rhodri

[Primetimer]

We go way back in Enchanted Forest time to when Regina and Maleficent first met and helped each other, as things progress fairly quickly -- and mostly badly -- for our heroes in Storybrooke.

Read the story

[kili]

Regina promises to protect Pinocchio and utterly fails. Pinocchio is now August. I hope Geppetto tears her a new one. Look, another not so villainous guy (he did one thing wrong to protect his son) not getting his Happy Ending. Looks like nobody gets their completely happy ending.

 

I kind of think that August and Emma are equal now. Sure, he conspired with her boyfriend to send her to jail and destroyed her life, but she let him get kidnapped as a child by Regina and he lost his entire childhood again (when he really seemed to be enjoying quality time with his Dad). Way to use a child as a pawn. She won't let Regina yell at the child, but she let's her kidnap him and take him to hang with three villains who indicate that they intend to torture him. Pinocchio and Geppetto did not deserve that. And look, Regina turned out to be totally out of her depth in protecting him. As Iago would say, "Oh, there's a big surprise! I think I'm going to have a heart attack and die from not surprise".

 

Rumple is a massive jerk to Belle. I hope that Belle starts reading up about Pirate Oaths and realizes that is totally not how you do a Pirate Oath. And, hello, how dumb is that? That is something a kid would do. "Let's never talk about this ever. Let's spit in our hands and shake" (but Rumple wanted to grab some boob, so he switched it up). Colin did a great job with it though and I did like the transition when he walked in the shop. Somebody in editing loves that transition because it is the same sort of thing they did with Rumple crossing the town line - a fluid complete change.

 

I just can't with Emma freaking out about Regina being missing for one (1!) hour. I can see why the Swan Queen shippers remain convinced that there ship is end-game. You could certainly conclude that from Emma's crazy-eyed fear and obsession about Regina while being totally nonchalant about everybody else (including her own boyfriend who is probably actually missing again and is probably about to die again). The way she was 20 feet behind the very hard to miss pimp-mobile (while driving another hard to miss vehicle herself) while obsessively looking at her tracking app looked idiotic. "Oh look, the car 20 feet in front of me turned right (it was either that or left since it's a T-intersection that ends the only road that goes through town) - where did they go? WHERE DID THEY GO!?!? Woo, it is still there on my tracker app. Eyes back to the road so I don't loose visual. Still twenty feet in front of me? Yep. Better check the stalker app." I better put a stalker app on my eyeballs because it took me a while to find them after they rolled out of my head after that one.

 

I thought we were promised more Snowing this half-season? Did Charming only get one line in this episode to complain about his Sheriff car getting torched. Who cares? Make the Mayor find the budget to get you a new once since she is the one who torched it.

 

Mal with the emo hair was fun as was her very sound advice to Regina to get a new  hobby. Too bad that only lasted a few minutes. I guess I was supposed to cheer when Regina lit a random knight on fire (where is his happy ending?) and Mal put Aurora under a sleeping curse because of something (probably insignificant) that her mother did? Or was I supposed to cheer when Regina put an innocent  horse to sleep? You know what would have made me cheer? If a little puppy had come into the stall and licked the horse's muzzle and the horse had woken up while Regina ground her teeth for being foiled again. How long did she torture little Snow before she finally decided to kill her? And why was she surprised that TLK would wake Snow when she already knew that Briar Rose being woken up by Stefan caused Mal to have a 20 year emo phase? This Show. These Writers.

[kpw801]

You know, before 4B started, I didn't like the idea of Hook seeking revenge on Rumple again, but after tonight's episode? I want Emma and Belle to hold him down just outside the town line while Killian stabs him with a dreamshade-laced hook. I actually thought for a minute that Will was the rose until they showed Belle on the phone with him.

When the heck has David H. Goodman ever written a young Regina fairyback? Didn't Regina claim in some episode she felt like a prisoner in the castle, and she's literally WALKING around to neighboring kingdoms/castles? She's like mid-twenties in this at the least and she's throwing a tantrum about Snow's riding ribbons and cursing her poor horse? Are we supposed to applaud the female friendship between Maleficent and Regina? Get up, get dressed, and get out there and start cursing and murdering people! You can do it! Get that revenge! What a waste of Sarah Bolger and Sebastian Roche.

Part of me thinks Emma's worrying so much about Woegina was OOC/OTT and the other part thinks Emma was going crazy because no one's taking her advice at ALL, she's having to push for anybody to give her information or be included (Note that Regina only wanted Snow to meet her at the library), her parents AND Regina are gaslighting her, and maybe, just maybe, Emma has no faith that Regina can avoid temptation and not go dark again and that it would destroy Henry. And if that is the case, they're doing a piss poor job at showing us that. I think the only reason she agreed to let Regina take Pinocchio at all was because Emma thought she would be right behind them and be able to jump in, and Regina totally screwed her (as she is prone to do) by leaving the phone. Regina - your plan with the author is LITERALLY THE SAME as the Queens of Darkness! Stop acting like it isn't!

 

Colin as Rumple!Hook was hands down the best part of the episode for me. I loved (HATED) it in 4x12 and now they've upped the creep factor from kissing girlfriends to intimate touching of friends/ex-wives, oh yay!

In 2x01 Aurora told Philip something along the lines of "I told you not to come after me!" which absolutely does not fit here. They also apparently took Cora's wedding dress and added some chiffon and gave it to Aurora. YES, I NOTICED, EDUARDO, I NOTICED. That's how bored I was with this episode. I was most interested in hunting down a wedding dress from two seasons ago.

But one dress is white and one dress is pink.

 

 

 

[TigerLynx]

The writers are so in love with their villains, they can't be bothered to write for the heroes.  Emma is reduced to begging Regina to let Emma help her, following Regina around, and then getting ditched by Regina.  I hate the way the show is going.

[buildmeupbuttercup]

And when did Rumple begin to impersonate Hook? I thought the way Colin was acting before the scene where he interrupted the date was still in character, so my initial impression was that Rumple-as-Hook was only for that date scene and the scene in the rain with the dagger. But now I'm second guessing whether or not he was being impersonated the whole time. I thought it was strange that Hook didn't say a single word in that secret library meeting when Emma came up with her stupid plan to tag along; usually, he isn't afraid to butt in and say "Um, what now? No Emma, don't put yourself in danger needlessly. Why don't we do this other plan instead." So that scene could have been Rumple pretending to be Hook, but he didn't want to blow the cover so he didn't say anything. It also would have been a good way to get inside intel from the "heroes" about what their plan was and how much they knew about Team Queens of Darkness. That would also mean Rumple asking Regina at the end in the cabin if she had "gone soft" was more of a taunt than an actual question, because he clearly knows what side she's actually on. How ironic it would be if during the heroes' library conversation about Regina going under cover that Rumple was literally doing just that and not being noticed two feet from them?

The show likes to hit us over the head with the "did you see that Hook is actually Rumple in disguise? In case you didn't the first time we will show you two more times just to really hammer it home" and yet its very murky on when exactly the switch took place. I went back and watched the scene between Hook and Belle in the diner (that took place where? Supply closet? Kitchen? Wtf knows...) and these are the first lines of dialogue:

Belle: And no one knows what these three witches want Regina to help them steal?

 

Hook: Not for sure.

Saying the "three witches" wanting Regina to help them steal something and the use of "no one" sounds like the way Team Hero has been phrasing things, so are we supposed to believe the Hook impersonation was going on all the way back to the library? I did wonder why Hook didn't have a retort to the stupid "pirate mascot" quip or why he and Charms would stay completely silent when Emma volunteered to put herself in danger too.

 

 

Emma, Snow and Charming are supposed to be heroes, and the writers didn't make them do a single intelligent thing in the entire episode.

 

I hate how they based this entire subplot on Belle being fooled... again.  Haven't we seen enough of this in 4A?  

So will this sleeping spell (is that different than a sleeping curse? Who can keep it straight?) conveniently keep Marco out of it until the Augustochio thing is resolved or will our heroes have to explain to him why they let the woman who just yelled at his kid in the last episode kidnap him this week to prove her loyalty to the new queens in town...who the heroes fear so much they are worried for poor little Regina's safety. Maddening.

 

So three episodes into 4B and Rumple has everything back exactly as he did at the end of 4A. Belle fooled again, in possession of his dagger, and using Hook's body to do all his bidding and dirty work for him (eww not like that!). Glad to see there's only lasting consequences for the heroes on this show. Also, I never had an opinion on Rumbelle one way or another before this episode but if they do get back together after all the creepiness that happened in this one that may be the final straw that makes me quit this show. Unhealthy is the grosses understatement for the all kinds of wrong that makes up that "relationship".

[Joenigma]

 

So will this sleeping spell (is that different than a sleeping curse? Who can keep it straight?)

A sleeping spell knocks people out for a few hours fully rested. A sleeping curse is designed to put someone in a  sleep like death. What Mal did differently with Aurora than with Briar Rose was that she cursed Prince Phillip also so there won't be True Love's kiss to break the curse. Which in the end means Regina didn't learn a thing from Mal because she failed to do the same with Charming. But that's taking us off to a tangent.

 

While this episode to me, like many of you, found it boring, I do wonder if there was more information than we think. This flashback seems to have taken place before the flashback at the start of 4B with the Queens of Darkness. Does this mean Rumple not only used Regina to enact the Dark Curse, but used Regina to rekindle the fight within the QoD so he can use them to steal the Dark Curse? (Of course this makes me wonder if there are actually 2 Dark Curses. 1 a Transportation Curse, and 2 the True Evil Dark Curse.)

Edited March 16, 2015 by Joenigma

[Delphi]

So me and my boyfriend started a drinking game. We drink whenever the cast days heroes, villains or happy ending. I'm hungover to be honest and that never happens to me.

I figured out Rumple was playing Hook almost immediately but still enjoyed it. I didn't enjoy him playing Belle. And I don't think, however much their relationship has progressed, that she would give him that dagger which controls every action of her banished but still loved husband.

I choose to think that Emma was maybe worried about Regina back tracking and not super concerned about Regina actually. I didn't get the swan queen pandering that some got. But regal Dragon, I got that.

I also wish the flashbacks held substance with Briar Rose and Sleeping Beauty. Here's hoping we revisit that time.

Why can't Mal be a fairy!?!? I also forgot how much I like blonde mal...fuck those horns.

Though I have to disagree with yaddayadda about Rumple treating Milah like shit because he really didn't until the heart rip. Before he became the dark one he wasn't a bad person, coward sure but whose to judge. But Rumple coming home from work than going to the bar and asking that his wife come help him take care of their son is not bad. Not moving is not shitty. And maiming yourself on a war line to make it home to your child is kinda selfless in my opinion.

Eta. I'm also excited about August, I don't see anything bad about that. I honestly think when Marco put him in the wardrobe he wasn't expecting a child thirty years later and much like Neal not wanting to be deaged August would prefer to be an adult. Good God the blue fairy sucks.

Edited March 16, 2015 by Delphi

[pcta]

Got to admit I FF a lot on Hulu. Took me maybe 15 minutes to watch bits and pieces. The flashback scenes were truly poorly written and acted. Such bad writing that even Carlyle was awful in his scene with Regina (who is waaayyyy to "mature" to convincingly play the ingenue). The timing was atrocious - like a bad high school play with pauses between lines. Were they shooting their lines separately in closeup with bad editing? Was Carlyle stoned? What???

[applecrisp]

Who are these people and what have they done with the real characters?

 

Everyone else has already said everything I was thinking with Emma & Co's blown-out-of-proportion worry over Regina going undercover. Why do they care at all? Those witches used to be her friends. And really, Emma, Regina doesn't know the first thing about going undercover? She's only been masquerading as a benevolent mayor of a small town for 28 years. Then Emma just sitting in the woodshop, twiddling her thumbs, instead of, I dunno, KEEPING WATCH as the witches made off with Pinocchio was beyond stupid.

 

I will go against the seeming majority and say I HATED the Rumple-as-Hook reveal. RumpleHook was way creepier than actual Rumple, which was good, but the whole imposter thing just seems like such CHEAP writing. Oh, how do we make Rumple get the dagger back? I have no idea, let's just let him pretend to be someone else. I knew something was fishy when Hook referred to the car as "Gold's car". I don't think he has ever called him Gold, only Rumpelstiltskin or Crocodile.

 

Apparently Granny just leaves her diner completely unattended at night.

 

They really amped up the soap opera cheesiness this ep. Regina's "the worst" WAS The. Worst. The dumb "Pirate Oath" thing was only slightly less cheesy.

 

I was hoping we would get some good backstory on this version of Maleficent and her history with Aurora's family, but they spent more time on Regina and Rumple than Mal herself. At least she rocked the wallowing hair.

 

Also, I will keep asking this until the show explains it.... where is Anastasia, Will?

 

Granny's place is interesting-open all hours, a coffee house/diner/bar and also a romantic spot for dates.  I would have thought she would have kicked out the evil threesome.

[YaddaYadda]

Though I have to disagree with yaddayadda about Rumple treating Milah like shit because he really didn't until the heart rip. Before he became the dark one he wasn't a bad person, coward sure but whose to judge. But Rumple coming home from work than going to the bar and asking that his wife come help him take care of their son is not bad. Not moving is not shitty. And maiming yourself on a war line to make it home to your child is kinda selfless in my opinion.

 

Right.  I should have phrased that better, but Rumple is a fucker of the highest order...so my perspective?  Lost.  

[twoods]

I can fanwank that Emma is concerned for Regina because if anything happens to her, Henry will be crushed. I do wish that she showed this much concern for Hook when he almost died.

I wonder how Regina is going to get out of the August mess.

Colin is amazing. Him as Rumpel gave me chills. Can't wait for him to get wet again next week.

I also wish there was a Mal backstory that involved Aurora and her family instead of Regina. What a waste of Sebastian Roche.

[Emma]

I kept waiting for Mal to start singing "Complicated" because girl was looking like Avril Lavigne in those flashbacks. I couldn't concentrate on anything else.

I just love when my favorite character says and does stupid things and follows Regina around like a lost puppy. smh. I want my favorite character back.

I didn't care for August but he doesn't deserve this. It's not going to end well but these writers can't help but pull more stupid out of their hats.

Oh hey. Rumple is not only back but has his dagger now too. More curb stomping Belle. Ain't love grand. I don't much care for Belle but boy does she deserve so much better than this.

At least Hook was only used for a glamour spell. Beats being cursed again.

Terrible fucking episode.

[tricknasty]

I thought Sleeping Beauty and Briar Rose was the same person

[Delphi]

In once mal went after aurora's mother first because this show used to care about continuity. Sleeping Beauty/Briar Rose was mentioned in episode two but then they wanted to introduce Aurora in season two, thus different people.

[LucidDreamer]

YAWN.

That about sums up my impression of this episode. This show has always had a few issues, but it wasn't boring. Until recently, when that is pretty much all it is.

[TigerLynx]

I hope whatever Rumpel is up to turns Emma evil, she kills Rumpel and Regina, and then Emma and Hook go off together to be pirates.

[Spartan Girl]

Totally knew "Hook" was Rumple the minute he suggested that Belle summon him.

 

I was kind of hoping that there would be more Aurora or that we'd at least get to see her mom Briar Rose and find out the full story with that, but oh well.  Maybe another episode.

 

Wow, August is back!  I wonder how that will go.

[KR Vermont]

Thanks pezgirl7 for answering my request for a gif of Belle calling for Rumple to face her NOW, I missed that connection. I'm having trouble keeping up with all the ridiculous tangents, and I'm not even drinking during the show (would that help?). :)

[YaddaYadda]

So, I need to understand something regarding the sleeping curse.

 

So Stefan awakes Briar Rose with a TLK.  Aurora is put under the sleeping curse and Maleficent turns Philip into that beast (I'm not going to try and spell that word) to stop him from getting to Aurora.  I was sort of under the impression that say if Emma ever went under the sleeping curse, she would have 4 people who might be able to wake her, Henry, her parents and Hook.  I thought it was a viable possibility given that Emma TLKed Henry to break part of the curse.  Is this why the dark curse has not been completely broken?  Given what they've done with Aurora, does that mean that for the person under the sleeping curse, romantic love trumps every other kind of love?

 

Is that what I'm getting?

[Souris]

The timing was atrocious - like a bad high school play with pauses between lines. Were they shooting their lines separately in closeup with bad editing? Was Carlyle stoned? What???

 

I noticed that in the last ep, too. What the heck is going on with the directing in 4B? It's atrocious and amateurish.

[kili]

Given what they've done with Aurora, does that mean that for the person under the sleeping curse, romantic love trumps every other kind of love?

 

I don't think so. Emma was able to wake Henry from the sleeping curse (and break the dark curse at the same time)

 

Snow needed to be awoken by David because both her parents were dead and she had no children. We don't know what Briar Rose's situation was, but her's was broken by Stefan. David's sleeping curse was broken by Snow. His parents were dead and both his wife/daughter were trapped in another world. Snow was the first to kiss him when they got back, but I don't think that Emma loved him enough at that time to have broken it anyway.

 

Aurora would presumably had Stefan and Briar Rose who could break her spell in addition to Phillip, but she was not easy to get to (covered in brambles) and perhas Stefan and Briar Rose were also put to sleep. We don't see Briar Rose and Stefan was facing the fire-breathing end of a dragon the last time we saw him. So, both of Aurora's parents may be dead by the time she is sleeping cursed.

 

 It is not inconcievable though that not all parents loved their kids enough for it to be TL. I'm pretty sure that Zelena could not have expected one from Cora and Malcolm could only have ever TLK himself.

 

I presume that the number of people who can TLK you depends on what the writers need.

 

I hope that horse has somebody who truly loves it (still hoping for that yellow lab puppy). Why not just kill the horse ourtight, Regina? What has the horse ever done to deserve spending eternity in a scary burning room? What a nightmare for a horse.

[Joenigma]

 

I have nothing left in me to care about Operation Mongoose.

 

What's so funny about Operation Mongoose, was it took it's first Operation Cobra's victim: Pinocchio  (August was a part of it in Season 1 no?)

 

 

There is no way for them to get out of this mess that is Pinocchio/August. Either way, something is missing from the other. You don't kidnap children. What? Emma's going to stay behind to tell Marco that Regina (who just verbally abused the child in the previous episode), needed to borrow him? Yes, torture is the way to go.

 

Yeah... but here is the thing. While Marco just lost his happy ending; that shouldn't stop Regina from wanting hers.

Edited March 16, 2015 by Joenigma

[txhorns79]

Granny's place is interesting-open all hours, a coffee house/diner/bar and also a romantic spot for dates.  I would have thought she would have kicked out the evil threesome.

 

I thought the whole scene was weird.  Didn't two of them just commit an evil act to show their "reformation" was a ruse to get Mal back?  Didn't they have any concern that people might be looking for them, and it would be best to stay hidden?  I mean, is Granny's some magical neutral area where anyone who wants can get a drink regardless of whether they should honestly be on the run from other people?   

[KingOfHearts]

I don't think Regina kidnapping Pinocchio was essential to the plot. Maleficent could have done that off-screen. I think a better test to prove Regina's still "bad" would be to rip Aurora's heart out and give it to Maleficent. That just seems to be closer to her evil past than dodging freight trains or breaking booze glasses. Then when Maleficent takes her to the cabin, she sees Pinocchio in the chair and she's told they're going to torture him. Then Rumple appears out of the shadows and turns him back into August before they begin.

[Apocalypse Cow]

I may be in the minority, but I liked this episode.  But I feel like a bad OUAT episode is better than most everything else on tv, so there's that. :) Best part of the episode was (duh) RumpelHooklestin.  The look that he gave Belle when she summoned him was CREEPY. Loved it.  Also loved the bringing back August to answer questions.  That look at the end was great.  I do think the QOD quartet was juvenile and really? A game of chicken determines if someone is evil? yeah, right. 

 

I do think the flashback was not well done. Regina is too old to be young Regina.  But Mal was hilariously crazy. Can we trade her out full time for Regina?

[Shanna Marie]

And at this point, I don't want Emma to hook up with Hook considering he's not Hook. It would just be a Graham/Regina redux and just...blech.

I really don't think this was meant to be a long-term change, just enough to get the dagger and then cover up for getting the dagger by making Belle swear not to talk about it, to avoid any awkward, "So, how are things with the agger-day?" "Huh?" kind of conversations with the real Hook. Anything more would be an unnecessary risk. It would be fitting if Rumple's pushing about her relationship with Will is what ends up tripping him up, since he didn't swear her to secrecy about that part, so if she picks up that conversational thread with the real Hook, who would be utterly clueless about it, that might indicate that she didn't have that conversation with the real Hook, which means she didn't give the dagger to the real Hook. It would be nice to know where the real Hook was during this -- did Rumple make sure he was out of the way somehow? Because that could really have spoiled things, and if Hook isn't with Emma, he tends to be in the diner or with Belle, so the odds of the real Hook walking in at a bad time were pretty high. And I'm still wondering how Rumple knew that Belle and Hook were tight enough that she'd give Hook the dagger. We're getting that impression, having seen them in the aftermath, but we never saw Rumple seeing that. Rumple did have Hook figured out well enough that everything he did sounded like something Hook might actually say and do, and he knew Hook was very sympathetic to Belle's situation. It's a much bigger leap to consider that Belle would trust the man who once tried to kill her enough to just hand him the dagger that controlled Rumple. I also feel a little robbed that we never got to see Rumple seeing that Hook and Belle had become close friends. That might even have been a bigger reaction than seeing her kissing Will. In fact, if he'd already seen Hook and Belle being close, seeing her with Will might almost have come as a relief, because it would mean that at least Hook wouldn't have "stolen" yet another wife.

 

As with last week, Colin is the main reason to bother rewatching, and not even in the "sigh, he's so dreamy" sense. He's doing some really interesting acting here. Last week, it was the wave of thoughts and emotions that crossed his face when Emma asked about Ursula. This week it was the Rumple as Hook bit, in which it really was clear that this wasn't actually Hook even while not being too far off-base to be ridiculously suspicious. One nice touch is that I think Rumple's version of Hook was not quite up-to-date -- more like the way he was when he'd only just started turning himself around, and definitely a bit rougher than the current post-traumatic and much chastened Hook. And then there was that evil look, which is scarier than anything the real Rumple has ever shown.

[kili]

Granny's place is interesting-open all hours, a coffee house/diner/bar and also a romantic spot for dates.  I would have thought she would have kicked out the evil threesome.

 

Maybe they broke in? I know it said "Open", but they could have turned that on too. They are Evil and will do things like that. Imagine poor Sleepy, seeing the sign, stumbling in for a cup of Java and then they spray him with seltzer water! Or they give him the coffee, but substitue the salt for sugar. Or they put the tip under an uspide glass full of water.  They're Bad! So Bad! They probably made Regina make crank calls to Archie before they believed she was truly Evil ("Is your refrigerator running? Better go catch it!")

 

Actually, in my happy place, the QoD+Regina recreated the bar scene from Gremlins. Grannie finally managed to escape by using her polaroid camera to blind them.  Why not? The next night, they found the Storybrooke Theatre playing Disney's Snow White and chucked popcorn at the screen while heckling. None of the heros will consider tampering with the boiler to blow them all up at once.

Edited March 16, 2015 by kili

[Curio]

This week it was the Rumple as Hook bit, in which it really was clear that this wasn't actually Hook even while not being too far off-base to be ridiculously suspicious. One nice touch is that I think Rumple's version of Hook was not quite up-to-date -- more like the way he was when he'd only just started turning himself around, and definitely a bit rougher than the current post-traumatic and much chastened Hook.

 

I particularly liked the subtle voice changes between Real-Hook and Rumple-Hook. At the beginning of the episode, Hook's voice is light, bouncy, and higher pitched when he's talking to Emma about Regina & Co. drinking Granny's bar dry. And then directly contrast that with Rumple-Hook's voice with Will and Belle where it's much lower, a little more monotone, and has a slightly different "British" sound to it. It was subtle but still noticeable enough to recognize something was off.

Edited March 16, 2015 by Curio

[YaddaYadda]

So was it Hook or Rumple!Hook at the library when they were meeting "covertly"?  

[pezgirl7]

So was it Hook or Rumple!Hook at the library when they were meeting "covertly"?  

 

I think it was actually Hook in the library. The eyebrow raise he did when Regina made her snarky comment, and the way Hook and Charming looked at each other seemed very in character to me.

[KingOfHearts]

 

I think it was actually Hook in the library. The eyebrow raise he did when Regina made her snarky comment, and the way Hook and Charming looked at each other seemed very in character to me.

I'm guessing Rumple wanted to avoid Emma as much as possible, since she somehow figured out what he was doing in 4x11. (He didn't know about Anna's involvement.)

[kili]

I think it was actually Hook in the library. The eyebrow raise he did when Regina made her snarky comment, and the way Hook and Charming looked at each other seemed very in character to me.

 

I think this debate will keep us warm until the next episode.

 

I think it was Rumple in the library (with a candlestick). I think the look he had to the "Mascot" comment said he actually thought it was funny. Real Hook would probably have snarked back or had something to say to calm Emma's OTT reaction to Regina being undercover (she wasn't that stressed when she and he were undercover time travelling).  He just sat there and observed. Hook is a yappy dude who rarely keeps his mouth shut.

 

I think the prime reason is that RumpleHook knew too much. The meeting in the library seemed to occur when it was closed (nobody was worried about Belle showing up with her shelving cart or somebody strolling in looking for "The Cat in the Hat" or the Mercedes maintenance manual). The next scene we see, is Regina hanging out waiting for the witches to pick her up to go kidnap Pinocchoi (and why enchant the car - why not have Ursula and Cruella in the car, they were in the car the previous night - perhaps they were busy guarding Hook).  About the same time frame (early evening) in the next scene, we see Humple walk in and ruin the Will/Belle date. He convinces Belle to discuss something with him in the kitchen. Humple knows that Regina is undercover and has been asked to steal something (Belle: And no one knows what these three witches Want Regina to help them steal?). Now, we know Rumple knows about the stealing plan and he may know that Regina is undercover, but how does know that Hook knows it?  If Humple was in the library, he knows that he can tell Belle about the plan. If not, that is one more potential spot where Belle saying something could expose his plan. He didn't make her pinky-swear that she didn't know about Regina being asked to steal, just about the dagger.

 

In other news, how many muppets did Cruella have to catch, kill and skin to make those seat covers?

Edited March 16, 2015 by kili

[RadioGirl27]

This was so bad, and so, so boring. At the beginning it looked as if Regina was trying to get into a sorority. And the acting was atrocious, the four actresses were terrible and overacting. The flashback was pointless and incredible badly written, and, again, badly acted. Lana is way to old to play young Regina convincingly.

And Emma, what can I say about Emma. I was afraid this episode was going to be the definitive assassination of her character, and I was right. She was so OOC that she seemed a totally different character. In fact, for my sanity and my "enjoyment" of the show, I have decided that everytime she acts like this, coddling and enabling Regina, she is not Emma but her twin sister Memma (if you speak Spanish would understand the name). She let her kidnapp Pinocchio, for god's sake.

The only saving grace for this episode was the wonderful acting by Colin. He was amazing and deserves way better than what he is given.

[Mari]

 She was so OOC that she seemed a totally different character. In fact, for my sanity and my "enjoyment" of the show, I have decided that everytime she acts like this, coddling and enabling Regina, she is not Emma but her twin sister Memma (if you speak Spanish would understand the name). She let her kidnapp Pinocchio, for god's sake.

RadioGirl27, I, too, was fairly traumatized by Crazy Emma this episode.  However, I don't speak Spanish, and now I really, really want to know the "Memma" thing.  Willing to share?  (If it's not something you can post, but don't mind telling me, just message me instead?  Please?)

 

Maybe Rumple spent part of the episode imitating Emma, just for grins.  It makes as much sense as anything else they put up on the screen.

[RadioGirl27]

RadioGirl27, I, too, was fairly traumatized by Crazy Emma this episode.  However, I don't speak Spanish, and now I really, really want to know the "Memma" thing.  Willing to share?  (If it's not something you can post, but don't mind telling me, just message me instead?  Please?)

 

Maybe Rumple spent part of the episode imitating Emma, just for grins.  It makes as much sense as anything else they put up on the screen.

 

Mema (with just one M) means daft or dumb in Spanish.

Edited March 16, 2015 by RadioGirl27

[Leia1979]

The bigger logic problem, for me, is that if the Author is so incredibly all-powerful that s/he can dictate everyone's lives at a whim...what the hell do the villains think they're going to do to him/her, exactly?

 

They're going to go ask the Wizard...sorry, Author, and get sent on a dangerous quest only to find that the Author wasn't so great and powerful after all.

 

Oh wait, did we already do that one?

[KingOfHearts]

 

Oh wait, did we already do that one?

I'd take a Wizard of Oz rehash over this Author plot any day. I'd rather them go to a Sorcerer powerful enough to tread against the universe's pull in order to give Regina her happy ending than to someone who has supposedly been controlling everything this whole time. At least there's less retconning, though still asinine.  Heck, let's have Regina hear about the actual Wizard of Oz then learn its Walsh. 

Edited March 16, 2015 by KingOfHearts

[Arnella]

 

I kind of think that August and Emma are equal now. Sure, he conspired with her boyfriend to send her to jail and destroyed her life, but she let him get kidnapped as a child by Regina and he lost his entire childhood again (when he really seemed to be enjoying quality time with his Dad). Way to use a child as a pawn. She won't let Regina yell at the child, but she let's her kidnap him and take him to hang with three villains who indicate that they intend to torture him. Pinocchio and Geppetto did not deserve that. 

 

1. Emma's backbone has been replaced by Regina's hand up her butt because she's just her puppet these days.  So this is on the writers crazy Regina lust not the character of Emma.

2. This will have no particular consequences since Einon Bailey isn't going to become a regular so he's back to real boy with no memory shortly.  No harm/no foul for Gepetto (who really has nothing to say since his initial deception screwed up everybody's lives).  Granted this remains to be seen but not on Emma either way.

3. I know that bad guys are instantly forgiven for the most heinous crimes and good guys have to grovel, cry, and suffer for every slightly not good thing done with little or no choice or for the best of intentions but lets recap what August did to Emma:

a. He was charged with watching over her and abandoned her except to show up 18 years later just as she found love and decided to take it away from her even though he KNEW she didn't have to be alone and ignorant to become the Savior because HE was supposed to be with and tell her all about it (only because his dad made it so her MOTHER couldn't be with her and train her).  Hated Douchfire but he was actually the perfect person to explain a few things to her. 

b. Convinced Douchfire to get her sent to JAIL (even though him just disappearing would have been sufficient to keep her alone and ignorant).

c. Stole the money that could have made all the difference in her life because he wanted to go whoring in Phuket.

d. Never once apologized for any of that. (But I'm betting Emma will be begging for his forgiveness in the most pathetic way because she let the ACTUAL kidnapper take him.... and no one will point out that the witches are actually to blame because she's the good guy - sheesh.)

 

So no, not equal.

Edited March 16, 2015 by Arnella

[Rhodri]

 

Stole the money that could have made all the difference in her life because he wanted to go whoring in Phuket.

Oh yeah.  I'm kind of ok with him getting tortured.  Considering what lame tests they gave Regina to prove that she's 'bad', I can't imagine the torture will be that awful.

[kili]

No harm/no foul for Gepetto (who really has nothing to say since his initial deception screwed up everybody's lives).

 

Gepetto has already paid for that crime. How many times must he pay for trying to save his child?

 

a. He was charged with watching over her and abandoned her

 

Yes, an 8 year old abandoned a child when the stress of living in a horrible foster care program in a new world became too much for him. While I condem adult August for his betrayal of 17 year old Emma, I have nothing but sympathy for him not being able to cope with being Emma's guardian when he too was a child. And again, he has paid. He had to grow up without his loving father, turned to wood and was tasered to death by Tamara.

 

And Pinoccho, the boy who Emma conspired to kidnap and put at risk for being tortured by Queens of darkness, did not abandon Baby Emma, put run-away Emma in jail or steal her money. He's completely innocent because the reset button was pushed. The closest real world example who is somebody who had a mental disorder or a tumor and acted out, but is now cured. You don't still punish them because they aren't guilty of what some other version of themselves did. If Regina can be forgiven and go unpunished because she's turned over a new leaf, surely than so should a child who is completely innocent.

 

I'm horrified at what Emma and Regina did to Pinocchio and Gepetto. They could have avoided blowing the cover by having Emma/Regina fake a big fight and have Emma "win". Regina could claim they were followed and use it as proof that she is on the QoD's side.  Regina could then say "If you'd tell me what you want him for, maybe I can come up with a plan to get him back from Emma".  It is one thing to have an adult volunteer to be a kidnap victim to further a plan, it is quite another to take a young child against his or his parents will and do that.

 

And as we can see, they fully intend to torture Pinocchoi. Granted they plan on doing it to the adult version, but that is still completely messed up on all fronts. They aren't putting him in jail to punish him for his sins, but hurting him to try and get information out of him he may or may not have. If Regina didn't deserved to be tortured for kidnapping and killing Owen's dad, then surely August doesn't deserve it either.  Nobody deserves to be tortured and it produces very bad intel.

 

Blue turned August into a child to save his life. He was given no choice about being turned back into an adult and it's a Sophie's choice to decide whether to turn him back or not (lose August or lose Pinocchoi). Blech. Blech. Blech.

Edited March 16, 2015 by kili