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buildmeupbuttercup

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  1. I have not commented on this forum for years but I was logging on to weigh in on how despicable and disturbing I found it that they reached for their old reliable "rape by deception" for their latest plot point when I saw the stories of the dumpster fire that has become social media related to the people involved with this show. I work in PR and my coworkers and I get annoyed with the old saying "any attention is good attention". No. There are times when you just need to shut up and not make things any worse than they actually are. Now would be a good time to make sure everyone involved with your show brushes up on their comprehension of "consent" and "rape by deception" because again its kinda a bad time not to have a firm grasp on definitions of those. Also? Social buzz/press/attention that makes you or your show look completely out of touch with rape and sexual assault in a time when brave women and men are finally getting the support they need to stand up and tell their #metoo stories gets you the complete PR shitshow nightmare that has played out this weekend. And its a shitshow that could've all been avoided if the showrunners had just learned from all the previous times people lost their mind over this EXACT.SAME.STORYLINE. What everyone from the new(ish) writers to the new cast seem to be missing is people aren't necessarily raging about Friday's storyline in isolation but the fact that this is the THIRD time with male rape, on top of statutory rape, on top of some other instances (Gwen and Arthur) that all told equal about half a dozen instances of dubious consent. The writers Brigette and Leah flopped all over themselves over the weekend defending it as "she's a villain and it's supposed to be bad" and somehow seeing it as a proud honor that "75% of the 2 hour episode was written by women" like somehow people have to hand in their feminism card if they criticize the THIRD time the show depicts male rape and completely ignores the implications. But even with the writers they are somewhat "newer" and just writing the words that their bosses dictate is where the plot needs to go. They are sent out to live tweet and deal with the blowback while A&E sit back and say nothing. Not that their comments on the issue in the past showed that they had any understanding of why people were upset or that they treated it with the seriousness that it needed. Nevertheless this is THEIR show, THEIR mess, THEY need to own up to it. With the actors, literally they didn't have to say anything at all. They didn't write it so they didn't owe people any explanation. People are upset that it was written they didn't demand that the cast walk out in protest and risk their jobs. The witch actress (who is a guest star) I guess first stuck her foot in it with a tweet something along the lines of "don't like it don't watch." And then unsurprisingly longtime fans lose their mind with her. Her two options after that are just stop talking (which might've been the best immediate solution) or consult the PR people and issue a crafted apology. She apparently opted for "none of the above" and instead made door #3 for herself which is issue a "defense" that her character is bad but she is a totally nice person...who doesn't understand "consensual" and describes the exact opposite of "consent" in the same sentence. And then cue the (justifiable) outrage again. The actress didn't need to prove that she's not like her character. 99% of people who watch can distinguish actors from the characters they play no matter how horrible the acts that character commits. The actress did need to not open her mouth and make things worse and prove she too doesn't quite (at all) understand consent or rape by deception and why people are so upset over this. Don't get me started on the kid actress. She's anywhere between 10-12 from what I've seen and not even involved in the storyline. Its not like shes the rape baby from this mess. She owes NO kind of statement whatsoever. And yet here is her account (probably run by a parent?) that uses her name and image to basically prop up A&E and their disgusting "storytelling" and crap about hero's needing adversity like this to blah blah blah. Its disgusting. Honestly how does it even get this bad? Literally the easiest thing they had to do was just not write the third male rape plot (which is identical to the "twist" three seasons ago that also caused significant outrage and backlash) on a show about fairytales that airs on Disney-owned ABC. Take that in for a second. I don't let my kids watch a show about fairytales and "hope" because in 7 seasons they still haven't learned how not to write rape into their storylines that they first got backlash from all the way back to season one. Its really just amazing to watch how badly everything from promotion to throwing their former lead actress under the bus to the depiction of sexual assault on a fairytale show (I guess I just can't stop stressing the fairytale part) has gone in season 7. Hope all of the Netflix money that ABC got for renewing this is worth all the wonderful attention and "buzz" they're receiving.
  2. So I haven’t posted for months because for my own sanity I have been trying to be more zen about watching this show and not letting little details bother me but this episode pushed me over the edge. The writers can make all the “parallels” they want of Emma-is-the-new-Cora but sorry I’m still 100% Team Emma. Agreed that the evil deed is ripping the 13 year old girl’s heart out not Henry’s heartache but even that is nowhere near Cora-level evil. Maybe I’m in the minority, but instead of being horrified my reaction was Emma’s gotta help herself because surely the “no shortage of people who want to help you” gang haven’t been moving things along. I don’t know where we are supposed to be in this 6 week Camelot timeframe but so far we have: Henry: more concerned with getting a date with his new crush and showing off his inappropriate movie collection on his unnaturally super-charged cell phone, Snowing: more concerned with being named a Round Table knight and showing all their cards to the shady king they’re suspicious of—before getting sanded and then frozen an episode later, Regina: too concerned being the “savior” and researching getting Merlin out, which we know from Arthur is anywhere from a 5-year to “many years ago” task so we’re looking end of Season 6 to just get Merlin free, so yeah if that’s the amount of “help” Emma’s receiving by those around her I’m sorry if I don’t get sufficiently horrified when she takes the, albeit “evil”, steps to move things the hell along. I had the same reaction of others that a HUUUGE plot hole in the ep was WTF was Hook but guess I can see where it would be easier for the writers to just completely gloss over it rather than to try to think up a lame excuse for him not being around because from being the one who doesn’t want to waste time at a ball to being the only person to bring up “Hey Merlin, you think you can do what we came here for and get the evil outta Emma?” he’s really the only one on this Save Emma mission who isn’t getting distracted and is actually trying to SAVE EMMA. And now to Storybrooke… I really didn’t think it was possible to sink the Emma/Snowing relationship any further than it was in 4B but man they are trying hard in these first 5 episodes. So the “we never give up” Charmings find out they failed Emma in Camelot and now decide since she’s a lost cause and they should be the best hosts to the Camelot Cavalry instead? Yeah we have gotten a couple “if we win Emma loses”, “how did Emma fall so far”, and Charming throwing shit around the station in frustration but THEY PLANNED A FREAKING CARNIVAL WHILE THEIR DAUGHTER IS DARK. And they haven’t made a single attempt to talk to her! Yes Regina has mostly interacted with her because of trying to save Robin and about Henry but geez even she has lines like “there’s nothing you can’t come back from if you just tell us”, “I was seeing the good in you”, and “I thought you could escape the darkness”. Snowing? Nada. Right now Regina cares more about Emma than her own parents. I can see that and I HATE Regina. From the episode thread: Then there’s Henry and Swan Believer. Yeah I’ve already been horrified by Henry’s actions these first 5 episodes. Last season he basically stopped living his life to stare at the storybook all day and find the damn author to give Regina her happy ending and so far this season we’ve seen him chilling at Granny’s, sipping Big Gulps while readings and texting his new Camelot crush while his mom took on the greatest darkness in the land. Yeah all of that has been shitty but the quote that actually prompted this entire post was: The hell it isn’t! Look I get that they’ve changed the rules since Season 1 and being the Savior has gone from breaking the curse to knocking on everyone’s door and physically bringing their happy endings to them so they don’t have to do any of the heavy living themselves but gimme an effing break. No, I’m sorry you ungrateful little shit but I’d say her “mission” gets to be on hold since she, you know, took on the greatest darkness to save anyone—without even a thank you from any of them. Now she has to get happy endings for every person who even visits Storybrooke? The end line keeps moving? Seriously, I wish Dark Swan was selfish enough to just give all these guys the finger grab Hook and just sail away out of Storybrooke—since they can’t leave the town any other way because of the tree business. Because yes without a trace of shipper goggles I can saw unequivocally with what we have been shown that Killian “I can spend at least [centuries] trying to save the woman I love” Jones is the only character who has shown he cares about Emma the person, not Emma the Savior, above anything else. I’m so glad she has him but the rest of her relationships just make me so sad.
  3. I rewatched the finale and I love that when Emma and Killian literally run into each other for the "first time" he's blown away by her, stares at her like she is the freaking sun, the most beautiful woman he has ever seen AND that's after she's been trapped in a tower for apparently two years and not looking her best. Oh and then there's the part where he dies for her and her son even though he's known her for maybe a couple hours. And that is why as an Emma fan I thank my lucky stars that he is Emma Swan's love. As much as the show frustrated me at times during this arc, this makes me truly happy because his actions and who he is is what Emma deserves. Hell just look what Regina and Belle get stuck with as their True Loves...
  4. Maybe I should reply in the Emma thread but I think I can stay on topic with what we are talking about here. I probably should have rephrased my original post better-I blame early morning posting haha. Oh hell yeah I'm all here for Emma finally having people fighting like hell for her and I do believe that is what we will see come 5A. I think my negativity about the finale ending came from it being at the end of a dark and depressing half season already so it slightly lacked that "hope" element for me. Not that I don't fully know that it will happen--we just have to wait until September to see it happen. I think the ending would've sat better with me if we saw them springing into action a la Save Henry at the end of season 2 instead of the dagger. But the dagger was, for me, a dark ending to an already dark arc. I guess I'm just hoping (and slightly nervous) that the DarkSwan will be a little more lighthearted in tone than 4B because I miss the show that made me happy every Sunday night and not depressed mood going into the work week. But again I stress that that was my personal read on it so I'm not casting blanket negativity on it. On the whole I try to be a pretty positive, glass half full kind of gal. I know sometimes here the negativity is goes even beyond glass half empty and more into "what glass I didn't even get a glass, the water was splashed directly in my face!" and I try not to pile onto that. I think people are bitter and angry about 4B right now but I too think it will pass and in a few months it will go back to the way it was around here in 4A. 4B rubbed some people the wrong way. I wish I had been able to enjoy it the way others had but I didn't really like some of the message that it was sending. Things that hadn't bothered me in the past (the abusiveness that was Rumbelle) really started to offend me. But again I think as we move further away from 4B the negativity will pass because I think a lot of people here are like me and would rather have hope in this show and not negativity. Maybe that is why people are so negative because they are hopeful and have their exceptions and then it doesn't play out as we would like. I also understand that this isn't "my" show. It isn't my story to tell so I even try to stay away from casting the net of "they did this wrong". So while I am all here for the Save Emma storyline (because finally! My poor baby has been saving your asses for 4 seasons) I'm just hoping that it gets played in a more season 1 or 3 tone rather than a continuation of 4B doom and gloom.
  5. This. Especially the part about how it will always be the show that "never quite lived up to its potential." I don't regularly post on the boards because a lot of times someone already touched on the points I want to make and I feel like I would be "piling on" and I do try to stay away from beating a dead horse. However, these boards have saved 4B for me. I've said before this is the only place I am active in the fandom. Twitter is too cesspool-y for me and Tumblr--well some of you have waaaay more patience than I would. I'm too "old" to deal with lectures from 20 year olds, so I lurk around a few blogs but that's it. I was happy to have this board because honestly some of those blogs weren't looking at 4B with any critical lens and there was a very "everything is perfect" attitude going around. There seemed to be a lot of bickering there between people expressing some negative opinions and the "I better not see anyone complaining about ANYTHING in 4B because LITERALLY everything has been awesome so STFU" attitude, so I love coming here where at least people are civil and adults about it. It was also getting harder to find people who side-eyed Regina because a lot of the blogs I used to really like lumped her into the same "great redemption arc" category as Hook and I strongly disagreed. (Unpopular opinion: I love that Zelena is back--not that she's preggers-- but that she's back because yes she's batshit crazy but she's a welcome character who doesn't kiss Regina's ass and I welcome that!) So I was very happy this board was here with others who feel about her the way I do. When it gets to negative on here I either don't read the posts or just roll my eyes, but yeah I think the tone of this board matches the tone of this show. I actually really loved 4A and I was spoiled so while I didn't expect to love 4B, I didn't think I would hate it as much as I did. I had a very visceral hatred of numerous episodes this arc and I was not expecting that. I hated 405 but it at least contained one of my favorite CS scenes, so I could find something positive about it, but a few of the 4B episodes I couldn't name one scene I liked. Unpopular opinion: I didn't like the Cruella episode, so I think there were maybe 2-3 episodes that I could actually categorize myself as enjoying. Even the finale, there were scenes that I enjoyed but on a whole I had a sense of dread the whole way through--probably because I was spoiled about the ending. And maybe that's my problem. All the big "twists" were either spoiled or predicted by fans so seeing it play out on screen a month and a half after hearing it being dissected on here and on blogs was kind of anticlimactic. I've been dreading the whole Emma goes dark/dagger scene since it was spoiled back on April 1. Was it better to be spoiled and prepared? I don't know because it still dampened the episode for me and I was dreading the finale for over a month. Was that better than being shocked and sucker punched by it when it happened? I guess that's something I will have to assess before the new spoilers come out for season 5. I get that nobody wants to watch a show where there characters are happy all the time and there is no angst but there was ALL angst this half season and no real happiness. I'm a huge Emma stan and its just been so sad and depressing to watch my poor girl have so much sadness this arc/ season, barely get to smile, and now this darkness plot for who knows how long. I hope they turn it around in season 5 but again I'm not excited for a DarkSwan plot and I just want some of the joy and fun from the show back. They keep talking about this being a "family show" so I wish they would bring back some fun and humor and tone down the dark drama. I know you should expect the Queens of Darkness arc to be dark, but hell my problem was actually how little QoD there was. To me 4B seemed like a clusterfuck. I hated everything about how the author plot didn't seem to be cohesive or make sense. I hated the addition of the author and Lily and I hate that she is apparently sticking around for at least a little while next season. Sadly, I'm here for the long haul--however many seasons that may be--so hopefully 5A can right things the way 3A did. In all honestly if there hadn't been an outlet like this to get some of this negativity out I don't really know if I could continue with the show, no matter how much I wanted to.
  6. I try to take spoilers with a grain of salt and wait to see what's onscreen but geez they're not giving us much to cling to that season 5 is going to right this. Too soon to start praying for a Disney/ABC intervention?
  7. Another article: http://www.eonline.com/news/652595/once-upon-a-time-which-couple-should-fans-be-most-worried-about I don't know if the intern who typed this was having a rough day or if A&E are really inept at forming complete thoughts but this seems to be the worst of their crop of articles. This is the beginning of a quote re: Hook on Emma going dark: A lil clunky there. Then re: couples: How are any of these relationships new? I guess "new" in terms of their screwy timeline but for fans these relationships are at least a season old. Also, is he trying to be metaphysical with "either exist or may exist"? As if there aren't already nervous nellies in their fandom: I don't feel sorry for them when the nervous nellies slam them with worrying tweets when they ask for it.
  8. How can an interview where they basically answer "can't say" to 75% of the questions be so infuriating? This is what I have a problem with: I'm hoping "never say never" really means "never" because I'm already sick that we wasted so much of this arc on new characters and this author gets his own centric in the finale. Belle's mom was one scene of one episode I have no desire to see more of her. Or any connection to this poorly executed author storyline. Why pay off consequences this season when you can pay it off next...or you know...never? No shit Sherlock! Heck Granny serving her grilled cheese "plays a role in her life". I do like that the comments seem to think this was as pointless as we did.
  9. So if you hated this Snowing/Emma darkness shit this arc don't worry that epic storytelling will carry over to next season. I was praying we would be rid of Lily (and this bs storyline) after the finale but looks like so such luck. I really need to stop reading A&E interviews. ETA Especially since this finale apparently "changes everything". How does everything change if you carry this horrible storyline over?
  10. So as ridiculous as I thought the "she was my first and best friend and I pushed her away" regret/ lament Emma had over what we thought was a 4-hour friendship, that at least was more believable than regretting cutting ties with a liar who used you when she got in trouble, stole from your foster family, and ruined your relationship with said foster family. That’s a toxic person you should want far away from your life not someone you should regret not keeping in touch with…although the episode where Emma first had that regret was the episode where she was begging Regina to forgive her for saving Robin’s wife from being executed by Regina so maybe she needs change her criteria when selecting friends. I cannot tell you how much I hate this “poor Lily had this evil thrust upon her and her life was shit” message. Phew I’m so relieved that Emma got the good life with the being thrown in the wardrobe and found along the highway, abandoned by her pseudo-guardian Pinocchio to fend for herself in foster care, given back by her potential adoptive family when they had a biological child of their own, not staying with any foster family longer than 6 months, when a foster mom finally wants to adopt her its only because she wants to use her in a weird sister replacement plan, stealing/life of crime, the douchebag boyfriend who knocks her up and then lets her take the fall for his crimes, having to give up her kid, and basically being along for 28 years of her life. Not to mention her life hasn’t exactly been sunshine and rainbows since the curse broke and she found her family. But please give me another episode about poor Lily who had the deck stacked against her and everything went wrong for her. I have not hated a character as much as Lily since Tamara. Comparisons to 2B are never good. What is the author’s vested interest in making Emma go dark? Also, the Charmings are idiots for leaving him at Rumple’s cabin after they had him last week. What was the point in looking for him a couple weeks ago, only to find him and let him go? I know they had to save Emma from “going dark” but…idiots. RIP Belle’s new 4B backbone, I will miss what little we saw of you. So this pretty much shoots the theory that she gave Regina her heart willingly, but WTF with this pity party for Rumple. Her heart was fully intact when she heard that he glamorspelled himself as Hook to lie and steal the dagger from her when she said “just when I think he couldn’t deceive me again, he found a way” and tonight he admitted he was lying to her all through their marriage! What’s with the doe-eyed, “he’s a good man” eyes she was giving him? I can’t articulate how awful and abusive that relationship is and how disgusted it makes me that she seems to be walking right back to him. Mal’s makeup was so distractingly awful. It’s aging her in a very unflattering way. The less I say about the pregnant Zelena thing the better. Although when that is not the issue that bothers me the most in an episode, I think there’s a problem. This arc is just a mess for me. Yep Captain Swan is pretty much the only thing keeping me here. I'm now convinced all the CS scenes are written by a talented, uncredited writer that they keep locked in a closet, who is only allowed to write the CS scenes because the rest of the writers are only interested in their "genius" plot twists. Otherwise it doesn't compute that writers who manage to write that relationship so beautifully also churn out the rest of this shit. Snowflake will probably say his first word "mama" to Belle or Granny since they are the ones raising that poor kid now. But hey a mention is more than he's gotten the rest of this half season, so victory there I guess. The Apprentice totally sucks! Yep help Lily because Emma's life is aces. Asshole. Also, color me underwhelmed that the Sorcerer is just blue smoke.
  11. Even though I stopped watching about five seasons ago, I just wanted to send my condolences to any remaining Grey's Anatomy fans out there. My friend and I loved that show back in college (never missed an episode) and she still managed to keep watching all these years even though I threw in the towel after the hospital shootout episode. She texted me last night, outraged, telling me what happened and I have never been happier to have quit a show when I did. Sometimes when I get frustrated with Once, I console myself by saying "well at least its not written by Shona Rimes". She actually manages to come off as more tone deaf in post-episode interviews than A&E and that's saying something!
  12. It almost seems like in 4B, more so than other arcs, they had so many storylines to cover (I count at least 7-8 main "plots" they are trying to cram into these 11 episodes) they sent each writing duo off to write however many number of episodes they were assigned and they were kept completely isolated from each other because the episodes are coming off so disjointed. I also wonder if you sat any one of the writers down for 10 minutes could they coherently explain the author plot because every episode seems to create new elements that make it contradictory. I'm really hoping they see their mistakes, learn from this, and focus more of season 5 on the characters rather than the plot. Because no matter how many times they try to tell me, I refuse to believe 4B has gotten back to focusing on the "core characters" more.
  13. Souris beat me to it. For the life of me I couldn't remember her name (Lauren!) I guess because nobody in the fandom referred to her as that. She was absolutely insufferable with her eyebrows that were 6 shades darker than her hair and mumbling all her lines like she had marbles in her mouth. I should whisper this quietly so that A&E can't hear me but ::I am very grateful they haven't thrown a character like her at CS to up the angst quotient.::
  14. Hands down the best thing on the show for me and one of the few Once things I'm still truly positive about. Hook is exactly what Emma needs and deserves in her life. I continue to be blown away how this is one of the most beautifully written 'ships on any show I have ever watched. Look at all of the curses, revenge seeking, Neverland time stoppages, Cora domes, Jefferson hats, etc. had to come together perfectly and how if any one event had gone differently they would've never met. THAT is what I consider soulmate/meant to be and give me a well-written telling of that over magical pixie dust ordained love any day. Those are the moments that turn my too-old-for-shipping heart into a puddle of mush and keep me watching. ETA: I also love Hook's redemption arc, taking accountability for shit he's done, and actively fixing past wrongs. It's a blueprint they should really use for some of their other characters.
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