S01.E10: Sins Of The Father

[photo fox]

Andre forms a new musical relationship with Michelle, and a woman from Lucious' past, Angie, comes into the picture. Meanwhile, Lucious invites the whole family over to his home. However, everyone arrives with their own agendas. Hakeem, under the influence of Camilla, sets out to show his father that he's a true artist and a good businessman. Then, Cookie prepares to state her own agenda for Empire and for her family, when Olivia arrives.

[cleo]

Re Lola I called the father issue. So predictable. A little disappointed with this ep overall except for the Andre storyline.

Edited March 12, 2015 by cleo

[SimoneS]

This show is the shit. I just love the pure craziness of these stories.

 

Wow, I love how this Olivia/Lola story turned out. I did not see it coming that Olivia was in trouble and left Lola with the Lyons to protect her from her abusive boyfriend. No one here predicted that either as far as I can remember. It was so sad when Lola said goodbye to everyone.

 

Lucious is such a bastard. I don't know how no one has stabbed him in the heart already. I was not shocked when he 'fessed up to being Lola's father. I hate to say it, but I give him major props for admitting it to save Jamal. It is his version of warped love.

 

Everything you touch you destroy look what you did my sons. You just don't want to die alone. You go, Cookie! I love how she read Lucious and rejected his ass smiling as she walked out.They could have shown us Cookie hooking up with Malcolm. I busted out laughing when she was about to position herself on the table in front the "camera" for him. She is a freak. Love her.

 

Color me shocked that Camilla genuinely cared about Hakeem. I still think that Lucious was right to get rid her, but I loved how she told him that he hoped that he had a miserable death.  I liked Hakeem's song.

 

So Jamal's boyfriend is bailing on him because he does not want to deal with children. I like that it felt real. Not everyone wants to deal with children.

 

Poor Andre. I felt for Rhonda also. I loved how she told off Lucious. 

Edited March 12, 2015 by SimoneS

[wanderingstar]

ALS is going to have to get in line to kill Lucious.

 

I absolutely loved the look of contempt Cookie gave Luciuos after Reg was shot.

 

I'm going to have to re-watch this so I can see all the delicious 90s fashion and hair in those flashbacks.

[mtlchick]

Tonight was the first night where I can agree with the argument that the show moves a bit too fast for the plot to make sense.  Derek Luke "I failed my commander, I'm in love with you."  (blinks.)  Jamal already talking co parenting with the Aussie...then realizes it was Lucious' (I salute those who called that last month.) JHud getting WAY too touchy feely too fast.  Slow your roll, show.  (Though Jamal and Hakeem's lullaby was adorable.)

 

Lucious, Lucious, Lucious...STAHP.  You didn't build Empire on your own.  You bounce back and forth on Cookie.  He's not supportive of Jamal and even less of Andre.  Makes Rhonda feel worthless and idiotic when she's pretty damn smart.  ALS won't kill him, a family member will first. 

 

I strangely like Naomi Campbell on this.  Her constant blinking due to her very long bangs drives me nuts but she's turning out better than I thought she would be.

 

Finally what the hell happened to the notary?  She shows up, gets free food, stared at them during their fight, then left the room never to be seen again.  Wouldn't she have heard the gun shot and say "about the IPO, maybe we should hold off."

 

I do hope that the do close up some story lines next week.  I'm going to go nuts if they resolve very little.  But the amount of times I said "WHAT!" tonight made me realize that I'm going to miss this show when it goes on hiatus.

[Brooklynista]

I don't want Lola Bear to go!!!! She's the cutest in the universe.

[Dusty]

Welp.  I guess that's why they never gave her a paternity test.  Congrats to called that.  I still think it's stupid that Jamal never asked about having one though.

 

Um...is Andre going to become born again?  While the praying thing was certainly a twist, I'm not really sure how I feel about it.

 

Lucious is insane.  What now that Anika left he thinks that Cookie is just going to run back to him with open arms?  Especially since the only reason that Anika and him are done is because she decided to leave.

 

Get it Cookie!  But seriously, Malcolm.  Slow down for a second about this "falling for her" thing.  That's just way too quick.  Cookie has been in prison for 17 years.  They need to let her have some fun.

 

I loved Cookie's little smile when Rhonda was yelling at Lucious.  Can they be friends?  I think they could be good friends.  Or at least allies.  Because I kind of want everyone to ally against Lucious and then Lucious can die alone in his big house that he made ALL BY HIMSELF!  It was nice for Lucious to confess some of his sins but I still feel like everyone should team up and take what Lucious loves the most.  The company that he made.  ALL BY HIMSELF!

 

Vernon...cocaine is a helluva drug.

 

This episode was a bit lackluster for me. I was hoping more for the Andre storyline. I guess there had to be one and that's generally how episodes setting up for a finale goes.

 

That preview...

[CofCinci]

I strangely like Naomi Campbell on this.  Her constant blinking due to her very long bangs drives me nuts but she's turning out better than I thought she would be.

I loved her colostomy bag line.  Wouldn't mind seeing her return in the future.

 

The Lola is Luscious daughter was predictable, but I still enjoyed it.  He actually thought, for a moment, that he, Cookie and Lola could be a cute little family.

 

During Jamal's break up scene, I couldn't help but imagine that Dora/Michael would have happily co-parented little Lola.

[MizStaken]

I knew Lucious was the daddy. Does he not care for her? Because why else would Olivia be hooked up with that Reg fellow.

Did seem a bit quick for Cookie and Malcolm to be hooking up.

Why did Camilla leave if she wasn't going to take the money?

And I really felt bad for Rhonda, she has been devoted to Andre for 10 years and he treats her like garbage.

Next week looks to be epic!!!!

Had a couple of additional thoughts:

How is it that Jennifer Hudson has an academy award? Every role I have seen her in, she is always one note and kinda

wooden. This continues to baffle me.

Secondly, I had kind of been under the impression that no one in Andre' s family knew he was bipolar except Rhonda and is it Vernon? Now tonight shows us that everyone did know about his issues. Got me to thinking that that is probably the reason Lucious wouldn't want Andre to take over Empire, Rhonda is just a convenient excuse. 2 out of his 3 sons aren't "perfect" in his opinion and have no right to inherit his kingdom.

Edited March 12, 2015 by MizStaken

[Scarlett45]

So is Lola really Lucious' or is it just a possiblity? If she was really his I couldn't see Olivia just up and leaving without a pay out....or has he been sending her money on the side? Olivia said "you could be her Daddy" to Jamal, I'm all sorts of confused.

Jamal is more of a man than his father will ever be. But that's not how you handle someone like that.

[peridot]

I'm going to have to re-watch this so I can see all the delicious 90s fashion and hair in those flashbacks.

 

Lol, I agree about the crazy hair everybody was sporting then. Also, I didn't realize how busty Raven-Symone was, I was shocked at her ladies hanging out!

 

I'm glad Cookie didn't fall for Lucious' BS, she needs to enjoy that young man.  Hakeem's and Jamal's lullaby was adorable.

 

The episode was pretty serious, but one moment that made me crack up was Lucius chewing out the nurse trying to help him.  Hated that Vernon ruined his sobriety.

 

I really hope Lucius pays for everything in the finale.

[Artsda]

Nooo Lolo don't go. She's so precious, I adore her. That lullaby  was so cute. I thought the boys should have a sister, but I don't get Lucious letting Olivia take her away. I thought Lucious would be more possessive and hold onto her as "his". We also didn't see a Lola and Lucious goodbye.

 

Lucious was right about the shares as Rhonda was getting huffy about the boys not having 1 million shares. Her outrage that Lucious cheated Jamal and Hakeem? From what? They're getting shares because of being Lucious's son not because they did anything. Andre did a lot of work for the company, but Jamal and Hakeem just started being artists they're not getting the shares because they earned it. Nobody should be accusing Lucious of stealing from his children when he's given them everything they have and live off him. 

 

What was with Malcolm's shaking his head at Camilla's crying? Cookie wanted her gone too and egged Lucious on to get rid of her and far from Hakeem. 

 

Jamal showed a lot of strength telling Reg to shoot him. Lucious fessing up to protect his son, did show a loving fatherly side. 

Edited March 12, 2015 by Artsda

[Whitley Trillbert]

Omg Lola is the most beautifullest  ( shout out to Keith Murray) little girl ever. 

 

I sure hope this finale can reel me back in cause baby these last two episodes have been less than stellar.

 

Again this episode was completely all over the and after that big buildup last week with Andre this week really botched that. 

 

I don't trust Malcolm at ALL. that deceleration of love screamed setup loud and clear. 

Edited March 12, 2015 by Whitley Trillbert

[Malbec]

"I failed my commander, I'm in love with you."

 

I honest to God busted out laughing when he said that.  That might be the goofiest, soapiest bit of dialogue in this whole show.  That said, I am fully on board with Cookie going with Malcolm over that rat bastard Lucious.

 

I enjoyed Rhonda calling Lucious out on cheating ALL of his sons, Camilla calling Lucious out, Cookie calling Lucious out...  this was a good episode.

 

Hakeem trying to bust out "Drip Drop" as a bedtime song for Lola was hilarious.  I have made such a 180 on him since the start of this show.

[phoenics]

This show is definitely headed for a "Who Shot JR" moment or a "Roger Thorpe finally goes to jail" moment or something.

Cookie's dialogue in the beginning about how "bi-polar" was about white people really bothered me. It felt really dated - I supposed they were going for Cookie being stuck in the past 17 years ago where this kind of attitude was prevalent - but I always felt it was more prevalent among the much older people in the black community. That's how it always felt to me growing up.

I just found her reaction too heavy handed and it just seemed like yet another slap at black folks from Lee Daniels/Danny Strong - painting the community with a rather unfair brush. Yes, the community was slow in recognizing things like this as problems that need psychiatric help (in addition to or without Jesus - depending on your faith beliefs) and there are issues in hip hop with homosexuality, but the show sometimes feels like it's in some kind of time warp with the heavy handedness of it.

Part of diversity is illustrating diversity of views - Daniels/Strong seem determined in issues of mental illness and homosexuality to cast aspersions of the black community (for mental illness) and black fathers (for homosexuality - it's a bit glaring to me that the most supportive of Andre through his illness was his white wife). It really bothered me to have Rhonda lecturing Cookie on how this "wasn't a white thing". That really, REALLY pissed me off because with the way they've characterized Cookie - I just didn't see that coming out of her like that.

It was the one time I felt like Cookie's characterization fell straight into a horrible stereotype.

Sorry - just had to get that off my chest. It was so heavy handed tonight that it actually affected my ability to enjoy the show.

I thought this was the weakest episode this season. It felt rushed and bit slip shod in how it was put together. It was the first time that the breakneck speed wasn't enjoyable enough for me. They didn't focus on Andre enough either.

The whole IPO thing? Lucious is pure evil - but I actually don't blame him for keeping the main shares to himself - it prevents a coup. He did build that company himself - he should keep the controlling shares. That's not uncommon. My issue with him is him being stupid with Vernon and folks who can bury him.

The rest I can't process right now.

Oh - except Cookie's office is the absolute BOMB!

What was with Malcolm's shaking his head at Camilla's crying? Cookie wanted her gone too and egged Lucious on to get rid of her and far from Hakeem.

I took it as him seeing what could potentially happen to him if Lucious finds out about him and Cookie.

Edited March 12, 2015 by phoenics

[GreekGeek]

I also was hoping for more about Andre. Sad to see him so low energy tonight. I did not expect the therapist to start praying with him. The actor has spoken about being Christian himself, so I'm hoping religion will be shown in a positive light. Lola's "Don't be sad" to him when she was saying goodbye was so sweet.

 

I loved Hakeem and Jamal singing to Lola, but that has to be the loudest lullaby ever! I giggled at the thought of Hakeem singing "Drip Drop" to her.

 

So was Camilla a con artist, or did she really love Hakeem? Is she gone for good?

 

Who was the woman singing with Lucious in the flashback? Have we seen her before? This show has so many walk ons.

 

In the previews it looks as though someone goes flying out the window. I wonder if it's Malcolm after a fight with a jealous Lucious.

[Badsamaritan]

I'm fittin to need an inhaler next week and I'm not even asthmatic!

[phoenics]

Who was the woman singing with Lucious in the flashback? Have we seen her before? This show has so many walk ons.

That was Mary J. Blige. She's literally an R&B legend. And still fairly current.

Also - Naomi's wardrobe tonight was bangin.

Edited March 12, 2015 by phoenics

[Gigi43]

I couldn't have been the only one thinking "yeah shoot him, Reg! SHOOT HIM!" when the gun was on Lucious... Right? When the gunman who has his girlfriend and her daughter scared of him isn't entirely the worst person in the room, well, that says everything about how awful Lucious is. I LOVED Camilla's parting words! Cookie's too. Girl power tonight.

Lola's story was predictable and yet I'm still unsure as to if there was ever a DNA test done. Was Olivia being literal when she told Jamal he "could be" the father? If Luscious hasn't ran a test I call MAJOR BS. I really appreciate that no one is slut shaming Olivia and that Lucious' actions are the primary focus.

Hakeem continues to be very likable when with Jamal (they're vastly becoming my favorite dynamic.) Singing to Lola, then throwing the watch on the ground to try to save Jamal, good episode for him. But I wasn't into his song, I rotated by thinking about Aalyiah's "Age Ain't Nothing But A Number" and focusing on Jamal/Jussie's reaction since he's very cute when amused/enjoying something.

I was disappointed in how little Andre there was. We know Lucious thinks he's God, we know he hates Rhonda. Cookie having up something about bipolar disorder on her computer screen wasn't enough for me. Hakeem and Jamal talking about it, asking Rhonda questions, looking stuff up, should have happened IMO.

[Whitley Trillbert]

That was Mary J. Blige. She's literally an R&B legend. And still fairly current.

Also - Naomi's wardrobe tonight was bangin.

I think they meant in terms of character. Most of the singers have not played themselves. 

[Dejana]

Confused as to why the flashbacks to Andre's first breakdown "in college" seemingly took place in the 1990s? At least it seemed that way judging by the fashions everyone was sporting. Lola is pretty young, and I can't imagine Olivia's relationship with Jamal lasted that long. Shouldn't it have been the late 2000s or earlier this decade, when the Jamal/Olivia relationship was happening? Maybe there are such retro attitudes about homosexuality and mental illness on display because the writers aren't sure what year we're in.

Edited March 12, 2015 by Dejana

[GreekGeek]

That was Mary J. Blige. She's literally an R&B legend. And still fairly current.

 

I knew that; I was wondering whether we're supposed to recognize the character she was playing.

[Ms Blue Jay]

I had to come here specifically to mention that Hakeem's song that he and Naomi presented to the family

 

- Appeared to sample Suzanne Vega's song "Tom's Diner" from the 1993 movie Untamed Heart

- Quoted Aaliyah and R. Kelly's song "Age Ain't Nothing But a Number"

 

LOL!

 

I love Cookie and Malcolm!  100x more sex scenes between them please!

[Happytobehere]

Lucious was right about the shares as Rhonda was getting huffy about the boys not having 1 million shares. Her outrage that Lucious cheated Jamal and Hakeem? From what? They're getting shares because of being Lucious's son not because they did anything. Andre did a lot of work for the company, but Jamal and Hakeem just started being artists they're not getting the shares because they earned it. Nobody should be accusing Lucious of stealing from his children when he's given them everything they have and live off him.

I agree that Lucious was in the right. None of the sons, including Andre are entitled to anything. While Andre worked to build up the company, let's not forget that Andre has the position he does, soley because he is Lucious's son. In that moment my only thought was Rhonda just outed herself as being exactly what Lucious thinks she is, all about the money.

That was Mary J. Blige. She's literally an R&B legend. And still fairly current.Also - Naomi's wardrobe tonight was bangin.

I'm hoping th question referred to who the character is and if we have seen her before and not who the singer is, especially since Mary J. was touted in the commercials by name.

Agree with those who don't trust Malcolm and hate the fact that Cookie will get hurt.

While Camilla might care about Hakeem , Lucious was right about her when he said money was the first thing that came to mind. Of course she'll be back when Hakeem hits the mother load.

Sad commentary on how important Boo Boo Kitty is to the show -- I didn't miss her or even note she wasn't there until I saw her in the preview. That does not bode well for the character. I notice when any of the other characters are not shown, even the ones I don't like.

Hated the Lucious is the father reveal, too obvious and too easy.

So Vernon has a cocaine addiction, wonder if that's where Boo Boo Kitty got the supply to poison Elle.

Edited March 12, 2015 by Happytobehere

[MrsRafaelBarba]

Come back Lola!

[SimoneS]

I love Mary J. She and Jennifer Hudson should have had bigger roles.

 

I was surprised when Jennifer Hudson's character wanted to pray with Dre. I thought she was about to jump him.

[tmelange]

I thought this episode was very clunky. It sort of careened from scene to scene. I enjoyed it all, but I definitely noticed the clunky way everything went down. For example, is Lucifer really going to ostracize the one guy who knows ALL of his dirty secrets, especially the one that can get him put in jail? That felt like an expedient scene just to drive the blow up at the house. And Lucious' confession about Lola didn't fell organic to me. Did he really need to go there to defuse the situation? Is that what that guy needed to hear? IDK

[wanderingstar]

Wait - I totally forgot to mention Jamal's afro in the flashback! I loved it!

 

I liked Hakeem's song.

Yes, but that Suzanne Vega sample made me feel ancient.

 

I LOVED Camilla's parting words! Cookie's too. Girl power tonight.

I pumped a fist at both! Truly delicious, soapy dialogue!

Edited March 12, 2015 by Gillian Rosh

[MizStaken]

Dejana, I was wondering too about that but it had to be just 5 years ago as Jamal was married to Olivia at the time. And we know Lola is 5 soooo.

Plus there is no way Andre is more than 27, he was growing up in the 90's not a college junior.

And something else that bugged me is that Rhonda said she and Andre had been together for 10 years and I think early on she said they had met in college so the math is wrong there too.

Did they hire Glee!s continuity adviser?

[phoenics]

I knew that; I was wondering whether we're supposed to recognize the character she was playing.

Sorry - the way you referenced her in your original question threw me off and made it sound like you were asking who she was in real life, not on the show.

I think it was in how you said, "the woman" instead of "was MJB playing a character or herself and who is she?".

I don't think she was given a name - I actually think she was playing herself - the timeline sounds right and her hair would fit that time period too (that's how she was wearing it about that time).

[riverheightsnancy]

I thought that a lot happened in the episode, although, the "clinic" or psych hospital (even really expensive private places) generally do not leave burning candles around labile patients and all the other things in that room. Just saying. And JHud, she would be so fired for the way for the way she kneeled down between Andre's legs to "pray" and locked the door. Actually, spirituality and religion (whatever your flavor) is strongly encouraged as a source of support for patients struggling will all kinds of mental health struggles. We had Priests, Pastors, Rabbis visit our unit for the patients. Even animal therapy dogs! They were the best! There would be no need to lock the door, praying is not a bad thing. Locking a door when working with a patient, would probably get most professionals fired or launch an investigation in hospital/clinic settings.  Very unethical as a professional therapist. 

[phoenics]

Sad commentary on how important Boo Boo Kitty is to the show -- I didn't miss her or even note she wasn't there until I saw her in the preview. That does not bode well for the character. I notice when any of the other characters are not shown, even the ones I don't like.

Actually I did miss her. I felt like the show was missing something and I think it's having a rival for Cookie - that's how we sometimes get her wonderful one liners... Since Camilla is gone I feel like Anika does need to be around. I was glad to see her in the promo for next week - I don't think she's going anywhere. I hope not.

And previously I wasn't really feeling Anika - I hope she comes back and isn't gone from the show. But she's in the promos for next week so I doubt it.

I thought that a lot happened in the episode, although, the "clinic" or psych hospital (even really expensive private places) generally do not leave burning candles around labile patients and all the other things in that room. Just saying. And JHud, she would be so fired for the way for the way she kneeled down between Andre's legs to "pray" and locked the door. Actually, spirituality and religion (whatever your flavor) is strongly encouraged as a source of support for patients struggling will all kinds of mental health struggles. We had Priests, Pastors, Rabbis visit our unit for the patients. Even animal therapy dogs! They were the best! There would be no need to lock the door, praying is not a bad thing. Locking a door when working with a patient, would probably get most professionals fired or launch an investigation in hospital/clinic settings.  Very unethical as a professional therapist.

Based on how they put that scene where she looks like she's about to devour Andre in the promo and on how Andre looked like he was about to literally take her right there on the floor, I think the show did that to tease the audience into thinking she was about to do some sex therapy.

I really didn't like how they had her get all up on Andre like that (so much so that he nearly kissed her) and then say, "pray with me". Hollywood does not do Christianity/religion well - that scene was overly sexed up...

Also - regarding Cookie: did she really try to take down that dude? I mean - wow. I get it - Cookie is a bad@ss, but wow... I still loved that the men were still scrambling to help. Cookie wasn't a damsel, but she also wasn't just a SBW expected to save herself. Although I don't think I would have been that brave (or stupid)?

Edited March 12, 2015 by phoenics

[lovinbob]

This show is definitely headed for a "Who Shot JR" moment or a "Roger Thorpe finally goes to jail" moment or something.

Cookie's dialogue in the beginning about how "bi-polar" was about white people really bothered me. It felt really dated - I supposed they were going for Cookie being stuck in the past 17 years ago where this kind of attitude was prevalent - but I always felt it was more prevalent among the much older people in the black community. That's how it always felt to me growing up.

I just found her reaction too heavy handed and it just seemed like yet another slap at black folks from Lee Daniels/Danny Strong - painting the community with a rather unfair brush. Yes, the community was slow in recognizing things like this as problems that need psychiatric help (in addition to or without Jesus - depending on your faith beliefs) and there are issues in hip hop with homosexuality, but the show sometimes feels like it's in some kind of time warp with the heavy handedness of it.

Part of diversity is illustrating diversity of views - Daniels/Strong seem determined in issues of mental illness and homosexuality to cast aspersions of the black community (for mental illness) and black fathers (for homosexuality - it's a bit glaring to me that the most supportive of Andre through his illness was his white wife). It really bothered me to have Rhonda lecturing Cookie on how this "wasn't a white thing". That really, REALLY pissed me off because with the way they've characterized Cookie - I just didn't see that coming out of her like that.

It was the one time I felt like Cookie's characterization fell straight into a horrible stereotype.

Sorry - just had to get that off my chest. It was so heavy handed tonight that it actually affected my ability to enjoy the show.

Cookie missed his initial breakdown. I can accept that a mother just learning about her son's mental illness wasn't ready to hear it. Especially a man like Andre, who comes across as so strong and capable. It didn't take long for her to get supportive.

 

Plus, Hakeem and Jamal seemed to support their brother well enough, and one of the therapists is black. I don't feel like the show is showing one reaction from black people.

Edited March 12, 2015 by lovinbob

[CaughtOnTape]

Wow, if that wasn't a season finale then I'm really curious about next week's show. 

 

Was Lucious lying about being Lola's father?  Or was he being serious?  I can't imagine he'd let her leave if he was telling the truth.

 

I'm sad Lola's leaving, she and Jamal were way cute.  When she pet Andre and told him not to be sad, my heart broke.

[wanderingstar]

I missed Anika, too. 

 

Did I just type that?

[phoenics]

Dejana, I was wondering too about that but it had to be just 5 years ago as Jamal was married to Olivia at the time. And we know Lola is 5 soooo.

Plus there is no way Andre is more than 27, he was growing up in the 90's not a college junior.

And something else that bugged me is that Rhonda said she and Andre had been together for 10 years and I think early on she said they had met in college so the math is wrong there too.

Did they hire Glee!s continuity adviser?

Sounds like they picked the wrong decade... should have been the 00s. I wonder if that's because they wanted MJB? She was huge in the 90s, so maybe they flubbed it for her.

[Racj82]

This show is definitely headed for a "Who Shot JR" moment or a "Roger Thorpe finally goes to jail" moment or something.

Cookie's dialogue in the beginning about how "bi-polar" was about white people really bothered me. It felt really dated - I supposed they were going for Cookie being stuck in the past 17 years ago where this kind of attitude was prevalent - but I always felt it was more prevalent among the much older people in the black community. That's how it always felt to me growing up.

I just found her reaction too heavy handed and it just seemed like yet another slap at black folks from Lee Daniels/Danny Strong - painting the community with a rather unfair brush. Yes, the community was slow in recognizing things like this as problems that need psychiatric help (in addition to or without Jesus - depending on your faith beliefs) and there are issues in hip hop with homosexuality, but the show sometimes feels like it's in some kind of time warp with the heavy handedness of it.

Part of diversity is illustrating diversity of views - Daniels/Strong seem determined in issues of mental illness and homosexuality to cast aspersions of the black community (for mental illness) and black fathers (for homosexuality - it's a bit glaring to me that the most supportive of Andre through his illness was his white wife). It really bothered me to have Rhonda lecturing Cookie on how this "wasn't a white thing". That really, REALLY pissed me off because with the way they've characterized Cookie - I just didn't see that coming out of her like that.

It was the one time I felt like Cookie's characterization fell straight into a horrible stereotype.

Sorry - just had to get that off my chest. It was so heavy handed tonight that it actually affected my ability to enjoy the show.

I thought this was the weakest episode this season. It felt rushed and bit slip shod in how it was put together. It was the first time that the breakneck speed wasn't enjoyable enough for me. They didn't focus on Andre enough either.

The whole IPO thing? Lucious is pure evil - but I actually don't blame him for keeping the main shares to himself - it prevents a coup. He did build that company himself - he should keep the controlling shares. That's not uncommon. My issue with him is him being stupid with Vernon and folks who can bury him.

The rest I can't process right now.

Oh - except Cookie's office is the absolute BOMB!

I took it as him seeing what could potentially happen to him if Lucious finds out about him and Cookie.

She literally doesn't know or understand what is going on with her son. She's grasping at straws and lashing out about something she doesn't understand. Not everything is a conspiracy or some hidden agenda.

[Actionmage]

Omg--Jamal's hair in the flashbacks and that awful gold hat Andre bought!     Little Hakeem was as adorable as Lola too.

 

I enjoyed how Lucious is totally the maker of his own destruction.  Burning bridges in his fear and ego.

 

*Vernon--Yes, Lucious, you killed Bunky and no one else has an inkling. Like Vernon and the guy he found to take your murder charge. And the guy who hooked Vernon up with the guy to take the rap. And God, Lucious.

*Andre-- your oldest son who has been one of the most diligent guys, while on his meds. But being an artist, you don't care/understand all the fine print. Or do you because you are Lucious Lyon and you are ashamed of most, if not all of, your sons. Especially the financially successful one who is successful despite having a mental illness and has a loving, 10 year marriage. But you expect sneaky evil from him, right?

*Jamal-- you decide you've had enough of his gayness, so you insist on a sham marriage then sleep with the barely legal woman and get her pregnant and drop her somewhere like she's what?!?

*Hakeem-- he dared to love someone not picked for him. I am not a Camilla fan, but she should have waltz'd into that wine closet and grabbed a bottle and kept a good hold. Club Lu with it or break it and cut him. Locking her into that office was over the line. WAY over the line was lying to Hakeem. I think Hakeem is much more savvy than Lucious gives him credit for.  The " what do you think?" was answered, I think, in Hakeem's face. I don't think he believes it.

 

Then the "I saved you" to Cookie? ::rolls eyes again:: Cookie knows who saved her. So does everyone in that room. Maybe Ms. Notary was in the ladies' room and that's how she missed the hubbub. I was hoping that Rhonda was texting Malcolm for help, as her phone was out and on.

 

Maybe Lucious and Harrison Wells (The Flash) can have a sitdown and talk about how hard it is to be a sketchy character. Lucious would not be impressed that Wells' still had everyone but one cop snowed.  Wells would be disappointed in Lucious' inability to keep the IPO as goal and continually screw it up the day of the signing.  

 

The music therapist did not look like she was in the usual praying position. You usually don't have to lock therapy room doors to do that.

 

Miss Lola already. :(  I love that Cookie was understanding of Olivia's predicament and had no hard feelings. I also liked how Lola said her goodbyes. Even Rhonda seemed like she would miss that cutie.

 

Am I just nutty, or was that look between Camilla and Mr. Deveaux possibly a grifter team?  I'm going to spoiler some speculation to be on the safe side.

Not that Deveaux couldn't have that background ( see Elliott from Leverage), but what if Camilla picked Deveaux , who was "overqualified" iirc, in order to maneuver deeper into the family? Of course, I don't know that Camilla actually left or if that's being faked. From the flashes in the preview, it looks like Cookie's possibly in physical danger again. But that was only from one watch.

 

Probably more later.

 

edited because Olivia and Lola aren't the same character.

Edited March 13, 2015 by Actionmage

[Congo]

I think Rhonda was pissed because Lucious had promised each son 1M shares and then cut each one by 25% to give to Cookie, while keeping all of his own shares.

I also love that Rhonda is the only Lyon who isn't intimidated at all by either Lucious or Cookie.

[phoenics]

She literally doesn't know or understand what is going on with her son. She's grasping at straws and lashing out about something she doesn't understand. Not everything is a conspiracy or some hidden agenda.

In no way did I ever mention a conspiracy or hidden agenda.

That dialogue felt like it came straight out of something a very old black person might have said - 30-40 years ago - not 17 years ago. That's what I mean.

I didn't mean it as an "agenda" as Lee has been fairly vocal about how a lot of what we're seeing is a reflection of his experiences as a gay man - so the way he's penned Lucious regarding that is very much on purpose and very much intended to send a message about homophobia in the black community. He's said that himself in interviews - so there's nothing "hidden" about it.

And if he wasn't trying to pinpoint an issue with black fathers and homosexuality, then he wouldn't have both black gay men (one from Australia!) lamenting how their fathers are homophobic assholes.

That doesn't mean it's an agenda - it does mean that Lee may be projecting his experiences TOO much and not presenting a balanced view. It's Mary Sue writing in reverse, imo.

That was my problem with the scene. It just felt out of context and ... like it came from a time warp - and given Cookie's view on Jamal, I just didn't expect her comments to come out like that. For the first time watching Empire, I got taken out of the show by feeling like I was being hit over the head with Lee Daniel's therapy writing.

That's all I was getting at.

[Dejana]

So is Lola really Lucious' or is it just a possiblity? If she was really his I couldn't see Olivia just up and leaving without a pay out....or has he been sending her money on the side? Olivia said "you could be her Daddy" to Jamal, I'm all sorts of confused.

Jamal is more of a man than his father will ever be. But that's not how you handle someone like that.

 

Previously, Jamal has said that he slept with Olivia once, which his ex pointed out was all that it took. It sounds like Olivia was having sex with Lucious in the same time frame, just far more regularly.

Edited March 12, 2015 by Dejana

[SimoneS]

True, Lucious does not owe his sons the shares, they were gifts. However, he broke his promise about how much they each were going to get so he could basically buy Cookie's love. Even worse, he lowered the value of the shares he promised Jamal, the gay son, and Andre, the mentally ill son, showing favoritism towards Hakeem yet again. Typical Lucious underhanded move, springing it on them at the last moment. As a mother is it, this has got to burn Cookie. You do not treat your children like this.

Edited March 12, 2015 by SimoneS

[Congo]

There is still a huge stigma about mental illness, regardless of race or class. I saw Cookie's initial refusal to accept her son's condition as that.

[apollonia666]

How on earth would that flashback have been in the 90's?  Lola's only four or five years old.  Jamal supposedly married Olivia at 18.  And he looked to be around six or seven years old when Cookie went to prison for 17 years.  That would make Jamal somewhere around 23 or 24 now, so the timeline of his possibly (though not likely) being the father could conceivably work.  The flashback would have been around 2008/2009 or so.

[aprilbabe]

Probably my least favorite ep. Everything seemed way to rushed.

Hated that Lucious was the father, it was way too predictable, everyone pretty much called it from day one. Anyway Lola and Olivia are gone, don't really see the point of this storyline. To show Lucious ain't shit? We already knew that. Thought there were be more of a twist to it.

[Pogojoco]

"Don't be sad." Lola to Andre (touching his face....)

"Don't be mad." Lola to Hakeem

"Don't be scared." Lola to Jamal.

 

This little bit completely psychologically read her uncle-brothers and gave them tailored advice. I love her. 

[Artsda]

How on earth would that flashback have been in the 90's?  Lola's only four or five years old.  Jamal supposedly married Olivia at 18.  And he looked to be around six or seven years old when Cookie went to prison for 17 years.  That would make Jamal somewhere around 23 or 24 now, so the timeline of his possibly (though not likely) being the father could conceivably work.  The flashback would have been around 2008/2009 or so.

 

Hakeem looked 7-8'sh too, so it had to be at least 2005. There's no way that was the 90's.

[riverheightsnancy]

I have personally seen many families (of different racial, cultural, and religious backgrounds) vehemently deny the reality of what was happening with their family member regarding mental illness. For some it was grounded in cultural beliefs, for some religious doctrine, and for some a personal belief that mental health issues are a sign of personal weakness and THAT is just not acceptable. I think that Cookie's response is actually pretty accurate in that initial knee jerk denial. The good thing is that she was actually checking out more information to try and understand. That is a good first step in understanding. It is never easy to hear that someone you love has a difficult illness (of any kind). 

[memememe76]

Rhonda was my MVP tonight. While I won't disagree that Luscious is entitled to transfer his shares in the company the way he wants, I do feel if he's gonna renege on something, he let them know in advance. Especially, when one of the reasons is due to Andre's mental illness. 

 

I had predicted wayyy back that Luscious was the son but given the flashbacks, I was thinking Andre would end up being the dad, where Andre and Olivia had sex during one of his manic episodes. 

 

I friggin' love Naomi Campbell. But why, if she didn't accept the money, is she leaving? 

[phoenics]

There is still a huge stigma about mental illness, regardless of race or class. I saw Cookie's initial refusal to accept her son's condition as that.

Yes - I agree that there is - my problem with the scene was more that the writers were clearly pointing out that the "stigma" appears to lie with black folk - regardless of Jhud's presence (since she's in the field).

In one of the previous episodes another poster commented on how it was disturbing to have an Australian man commenting on his "black" father's homophobia and then the line about "to be the son of a black man" like it was a universal experience - when it's not. That felt heavy handed. I totally get that Daniels wants to address the homophobia in the black community, but he's being rather unbalanced about it and he did the same thing with Cookie's dialogue this week.

When characters stop sounding like themselves and start sounding like a personal mouthpiece for the writer/producer and I feel like I'm being hit over the head with it (or like an entire community is being painted with a broad brush), my hackles get raised.

It's not like we don't have enough representation issues as it is - I just hope for more nuanced writing, but I'm not likely to get it with this show, I know.