Sweet Fellowship: Duggars and Friends (aka the Bates Family and Other Featured Families Thread)

[Churchhoney]

 Could Mechelle even teach a science class beyond Creationism-based curriculum?

 

I don't think Mechelle could teach a science class at any level, including Pre-K, in a non-Creationism-based or Creationism-based curriculum! Even in the a Creationism-based curriculum you need to cite and articulate reasoning of some kind and show kids certain details and observations and talk about how they might back up or not back up certain ideas. Given the mis-memorized mush I've heard come out of her mouth over the years, I can't picture her doing that, period.

Edited February 21, 2016 by Churchhoney

[Arwen Evenstar]

I don't think Mechelle could teach a science class at any level, including Pre-K, in a non-Creationism-based or Creationism-based curriculum! Even in the a Creationism-based curriculum you need to cite and articulate reasoning of some kind and show kids certain details and observations and talk about how they might back up or not back up certain ideas. Given the mis-memorized mush I've heard come out of her mouth over the years, I can't picture her doing that, period.

Churchie, science class for the Duggars was a trip to the Creation Museum. Nudge, nudge....wink, wink.

[Churchhoney]

Churchie, science class for the Duggars was a trip to the Creation Museum. Nudge, nudge....wink, wink.

 

That's it all right.

[Micks Picks]

Re: the Waller post, I don't even have to stick a finger down my throat to upchuck at all their blessings, God's this and that, the Lord gave them, etc.  They have I am sure freed up plenty of asbestos and other toxins, but out there in the boonies there are not a lot of inspections required so all that carpentry, electric and plumbing can be done.  And yes, they had better take what they have and call it a day with Gothard.  With such long term exposure and living it, I'm sure they'll find a way to keep doing what they like, but without the blessings of Gothard money.  Looks like Jesus is fixing to take some money away from the old goat.

[Albanyguy]

And David is doing the electrical work himself. Yikes.

[tabloidlover]

And David is doing the electrical work himself. Yikes.

THIS is what was so very alarming to me.  After watching him try to open the fuse box.... wow

[Barb23]

And David is doing the electrical work himself. Yikes.

  

THIS is what was so very alarming to me.  After watching him try to open the fuse box.... wow

An electrician told me once that a lot of their work is undoing the work or fixing the mistakes of the DIY homeowner. He went on to say electrical work is something you leave to the pros.

I don't want to inflict injury on David, but maybe receiving a little jolt will have him reconsidering. There has to be Fundie electricians out there.

[Jynnan tonnix]

We have renovated and/or done a lot of building/finishing work on all the houses we have owned over the years (on our fifth now...we have moved around with the military quite a bit). My husband WAS trained as a electrician, but that was as pertained to nuclear submarines. Nevertheless, he did all the electrical on our first house, which we had built, and we did all the flooring (except the carpets), painting, trim, etc., ourselves, and actually finished the entire upstairs, which we had them leave as just framed out with the exterior done ourselves. A lot of it is not rocket science in someone is reasonably intelligent and good with their hands (and takes care to do the research and actually implement it to do things RIGHT rather than slapping it together). But, really, there's probably no reason they couldn't do a good job with that house. It does look as though it's coming along OK.

 

I don't recall whether they said how old it was either, but it doesn't appear old enough that they would have to worry about asbestos, lead paint and such either.

 

Hopefully they ARE paying attention to whatever codes there are and have a inspector do some periodic checks on the work...I have no idea what things are like out there, but one would assume that at least SOME sort of inspections are done. If not, then they could have every bit as much risk moving into a new construction.

 

I just prefer to give people the benefit of the doubt sometimes as long as there is not something blatantly wrong happening.

[Arwen Evenstar]

The Fundy Patriarchy is as desperate to keep its control and power...rather like Gollum clinging to his Precious!

https://kiwifar.ms/attachments/62084/

[Ljohnson1987]

MeChelle is barely qualified to "Teach" her kids whatever she's teaching them now.

[ariel]

Something very blatantly wrong could happen with an untrained yahoo like David doing electrical work, but he’s arrogant enough to think God will watch over him because he’s a Christian.

[GeeGolly]

I come from a long line of fixer uppers. We did everything ourselves, even minor electrical, such as light fixtures or changing a old outlet to a modern self grounding 3 prong one. We removed walls, stripped kitchens and bathrooms to the studs and rebuilt them. However we did arm ourselves with knowledge, though much harder to do in the days before the internet. We wouldn't remove a load bearing wall, or add to an electrical load, etc. Every house that was sold that we worked on, and there were many between my siblings and parents, passed inspection. And having our house rebuilt after the storm, some of our do-it-yourself work in our old home was better quality then what was done by professional contractors in our new one.

 

One can hope that David and family are at least doing things the correct way. After all their blessings will be living there.

[Jynnan tonnix]

Something very blatantly wrong could happen with an untrained yahoo like David doing electrical work, but he’s arrogant enough to think God will watch over him because he’s a Christian.

I'm not defending him because I have no idea how much or how little he knows or is teaching himself about such things. I do remember my husband being really nervous about doing all the wiring himself that first time, and what compulsive perfectionist he is about anything he puts his hand to. He assumed that the inspector would go through and double-check all his work before signing off on it, but when the guy just said, "Oh, I've seen you working when I've been there; you look like you know what you're doing", he just had visions of the whole house burning down around his ears as soon as he powered it all up. But he did actually do an excellent and very thorough job with it.

Do we know for sure that David is half-assing it and relying on Divine Protection? Or might he have a perfectionist streak that we've not been privy to?

[NewDigs]

And David is doing the electrical work himself. Yikes.

THIS is what was so very alarming to me. After watching him try to open the fuse box.... wow

I don't think I'd take bolt cutters to a power box. I don't think I'd even stand there waving a screwdriver around!

iirc he was going to take a picture of the inside of the box to send/show to his electrician father who would tell him what he was up against.

Which, to me, makes it just that much scarier. I didn't get the feeling the repairs were minor but were rather substantial. More substantial then, Yeah, dad, I think I see what you mean.

Edited February 21, 2016 by NewDigs

[kokapetl]

Isn't the power meter and the box etc, the property of the power company? You're going to Hell David!

[ariel]

Do we know for sure that David is half-assing it and relying on Divine Protection? Or might he have a perfectionist streak that we've not been privy to?"

 

From what I've seen & read of David, I'll pick half assing & counting on Jesus for $100. YMMV

[DangerousMinds]

I knew you were going to say that!I used it in school, went to college, took a lot of science classes and did fine. Both my sons are doing Ok with a background of A-Beka, Apologia science and living books. No major issues. For me, it's one part of science and we move on.Too bad the Duggrs don't do A-Beka online instead of that Switched on Schoolhouse. (eye roll) Kelly definitely has made better educational decisions than Michelle. A-Beka can even enroll kids in some online charter school thing that I know very little about. They have the money. Enroll the kids and be done with it, Michelle! Switched on Schoolhouse is much, much cheaper.

And yet Erin Bates still makes grammatical errors in her tweets/posts.

[Fuzzysox]

Far easier to keep their brood ignorant and under their control. That way none of their kids could challenge the authority of their Supreme Patriarch by calling "Bullshit" on their teachings. By limiting their learnings, their ability to attempt to learn on their own and develop the critical thinking skills to challenge later in life this pap they've been fed has also been severely diminished.

.

And this is why cults thrive because they keep their sheep ignorant.

[Zahdii]

Well, David showed a fine attention to detail when planning his wedding...

 

Seriously, though, if his father is an electrician David may have worked with his father when he was younger and at least gained a rudimentary knowledge about such stuff.  Hopefully enough to know what he doesn't know, and the knowledge to make sure of the wiring before he moves his family in.

 

For what it's worth, there have been times when I thought David despised Priss, but that's because I've always felt he was forced into marrying and he took out his resentment on the woman who agreed to tie the knot with him.  He's certainly shown himself to be pretty inconsiderate towards her, and she often appears to be fearful of not living up to the standards that he and his cult desire in a wife. 

 

But I don't think that David would put Pris and the babies in a house that he rewired unless he was pretty confident that he wasn't going to electrocute someone or burn the house down around their ears.

Edited February 21, 2016 by Zahdii

[crazycatlady58]

And yet Erin Bates still makes grammatical errors in her tweets/posts.

I went to public school and have 2 years of collage and I am sure I make grammatical errors every day. Edited February 21, 2016 by crazycatlady58

[GeeGolly]

I went to public school and have 2 years of collage and I am sure I make grammatical errors every day.

LOL. I don't judge internet writings and posts. I think for most folks it's a quick post, and on to the next thing.

[Marigold]

As a homeschooler, it doesn't bother me that Michelle is unable to teach high school science or math etc.

Plenty of us don't remember high school math and yet we are intelligent and well educated people.

WHAT DRIVES ME CRAZY IS THAT SHE DOES NOT FIND SOMEONE OR SOMETHING WHO CAN. (yes, I was yelling)

I gave up with some of my sons' high school math.

I found them a tutor from the community college, an online class and some $$ DVDs.

That is your responsibility as a parent, whether homeschool, public school or private school. You need to make sure your child is receiving an education.

If your child is in public school and the class is a just awful and your child is failing, it's your responsibility to request a meeting with the teacher/principal. Try to improve the situation.

If you're homeschooling, you need to provide an adequate education. Find a way. Michelle has plenty of money. There is no reason for a "low quality" homeschool curriculum. It annoys me that the Duggars have such financial resources, way more than me, but I can find a math tutor ($) and they are doing the bare minimum. It also annoys me when schools do the bare minimum.

ALL children deserve and are entitled to a quality education.

As for Erin Bates and her grammatically incorrect tweets, who knows? At least Kelly tried to choose a quality curriculum. Maybe Erin was too busy puffing up her hair to pay attention? :)

Edited February 21, 2016 by Marigold

[Fuzzysox]

As for Erin B Maybe Erin was too busy puffing up her hair to pay attention? :)

Don't underestimate the puffing of the hair----it got her a man!!!! 

 

*walking to prayer closet now*

[Vaysh]

But I don't think that David would put Pris and the babies in a house that he rewired unless he was pretty confident that he wasn't going to electrocute someone or burn the house down around their ears.

I don't think he'd do that either. Intentionally. He's a strange little fella with some obvious anger issues but I don't think he's evil in any way. However, as with the Duggars, there is always a risk of the Dunning-Kruger effect coming in to play, combined with an extra side of trusting in Jesus to save you from your own idiocy.

 

Hopefully his electrician dad is sane enough to make sure the house is truly safe before he lets his grandchildren move in.

[Churchhoney]

As a homeschooler, it doesn't bother me that Michelle is unable to teach high school science or math etc.

Plenty of us don't remember high school math and yet we are intelligent and well educated people.

WHAT DRIVES ME CRAZY IS THAT SHE DOES NOT FIND SOMEONE OR SOMETHING WHO CAN. (yes, I was yelling)

I gave up with some of my sons' high school math.

I found them a tutor from the community college, an online class and some $$ DVDs.

That is your responsibility as a parent, whether homeschool, public school or private school. You need to make sure your child is receiving an education.

If your child is in public school and the class is a just awful and your child is failing, it's your responsibility to request a meeting with the teacher/principal. Try to improve the situation.

If you're homeschooling, you need to provide an adequate education. Find a way. Michelle has plenty of money. There is no reason for a "low quality" homeschool curriculum. It annoys me that the Duggars have such financial resources, way more than me, but I can find a math tutor ($) and they are doing the bare minimum. It also annoys me when schools do the bare minimum.

ALL children deserve and are entitled to a quality education.

As for Erin Bates and her grammatically incorrect tweets, who knows? At least Kelly tried to choose a quality curriculum. Maybe Erin was too busy puffing up her hair to pay attention? :)

 

Exactly. The bad thing is that, in every choice she's made about her homeschooling, Michelle shows she doesn't care about learning, teaching, education. To me, that loudly advertises that, no matter what she believes, she doesn't actually care about her kids. Or, perhaps, she cares about her kids, but she has absolutely no idea how the world works, I suppose. But I think if she truly cared about her kids, she'd find out whether education is important or not before going her own lazy arrogant way -- and if she bothered to look into the matter, she'd find that those kids deserve and need solid education, for their sake and the sake of their children.

Edited February 22, 2016 by Churchhoney

[Micks Picks]

All of the adults around a child should insist upon grammatically correct language every time the child opens his/her mouth.  Never let them say "for Chad and I"  or "me and Susie are going to the park".  If everybody speaks correctly there is no problem when they go to school and have to write correctly.  They don't have to learn it if everybody around them has always spoken correctly and insisted that the children do as well.  It can be done with a southern accent.  

[Fuzzysox]

Exactly. The bad thing is that, in every choice she's made about her homeschooling, Michelle shows she doesn't care about learning, teaching, education. To me, that loudly advertises that, no matter what she believes, she doesn't actually care about her kids. Or, perhaps, she cares about her kids, but she has absolutely no idea how the world works, I suppose. But I think if she truly cared about her kids, she'd find out whether education is important or not before going her own lazy arrogant way -- and if she bothered to look into the matter, she'd find that those kids deserve and need solid education, for their sake and the sake of their children.

The younger kids need to be in public school. They will be properly educated and not the homefooling MEchelle is doing with just sitting them in front of a computer screen.

[crazycatlady58]

All of the adults around a child should insist upon grammatically correct language every time the child opens his/her mouth. Never let them say "for Chad and I" or "me and Susie are going to the park". If everybody speaks correctly there is no problem when they go to school and have to write correctly. They don't have to learn it if everybody around them has always spoken correctly and insisted that the children do as well. It can be done with a southern accent.

This works if the parents know correct english, not everyone does. Also in some places if you use correct english, you are called snotty or stuck up. Some people are afraid of change. Having said that the Dugger parents should have at least tried to teach their children.

[Marigold]

i think the Duggars do the bare minimum.

All kids, homeschool, private or public deserve a quality education, not the "bare minimum".

Although the one positive thing we can say is that the Duggars have excelled in music.

[RazzleberryPie]

One of the reasons I think Jimbob and Michelle really latched onto the ATI mess, is because it provided a 'Biblical' sanctioning of no education. (Forget those verses about learning, gaining knowledge and wisdom, Jesus seeking teachers, etc. BTW). Michelle was absolutely overwhelmed with too many kids for her to handle by the time Josh was Kindergarten age. He did go to a private Christian school for a bit - not sure if the other kids did or not.

 

Homeschooling gave a way for overwhelmed Michelle, who by the time Josh was five and school aged, also had Jana and JD, Jill, and the the rapid succession of another baby roughly every 18 months or so. She could not handle, or afford private school tuition, getting all those kids up, dressed, fed, on the bus/transported, picked up, homework dealt with, bathing, prepping for the next day, etc. So the sanctioned solution was homeschooling. Now she doesn't have to juggle getting all those kids ready in the morning AND she can be all Mother of the Year sanctimonious about how they homeschool for the Lord, etc. Next best thing that happened to her is online learning, and not having to teach anything herself. Just let the computer do it, and someone monitor it, and BOOM - yo kidz air edumacated.

 

The few early homeschool lessons shown were bizarre explanations of bankruptcy laws, memorizing Bible verses, practicing handwriting, and slowly saying PERPENDICULAR and AMAZON. Kids ranging from high school to kindergarten were sitting at the same table studying the same lesson, and those lessons were really strange. Wisdom booklets and throwing in a vocabulary word while having the kids drill screws into the tinker toy studs is not a great way of providing an education.

[RedPonyDriver]

Regarding Erin and Chad and their comment about distancing themselves from IBLP/ATI/Gothard...I'm just going to copy what I wrote on another board.

Yeah, there was a cake for Gothard at Chad & Erin's wedding...HOWEVER...that was what? 3 years ago? That has nothing to do with what is currently going on with them. Maybe it's something they now regret.

I'd avoid rushing to judgment either way...

I am well aware that the Bates Sr. are still in the IBLP fold...and that's them. Their adult children will eventually find their own way in life. I can tell you that I am nothing like the way I was raised...at all. My parents would be turning in their graves if they knew my current religious and political beliefs. I was raised Roman Catholic, a staunch Republican, including listening to Rush Limbaugh and G. Gordon Liddy on the radio, taking part in pro-life marches. Hell, I did that until I was in my mid-30s. Now? Liberal Democrat, pro-choice, not Catholic anymore...it took years for my beliefs to evolve...give these kids some time.

 

Regarding homeschooling:

I used a combination of Abeka and Christian Liberty for my kids. It worked well. 

 

Regarding grammar/writing:

I am a high school graduate (Catholic high school), a college graduate x 2 and have written professionally...HOWEVER, when it comes to day to day, message boards, text messages, I am hideously lazy and don't bother to check grammar when I write/post. 

[GeeGolly]

Exactly. The bad thing is that, in every choice she's made about her homeschooling, Michelle shows she doesn't care about learning, teaching, education. To me, that loudly advertises that, no matter what she believes, she doesn't actually care about her kids. Or, perhaps, she cares about her kids, but she has absolutely no idea how the world works, I suppose. But I think if she truly cared about her kids, she'd find out whether education is important or not before going her own lazy arrogant way -- and if she bothered to look into the matter, she'd find that those kids deserve and need solid education, for their sake and the sake of their children.

JB & M had real world experiences into their 20s. I think JB & M knew/know what they're doing to a degree. The kids lack of education and social experiences keep the kids easier to control and less likely to run amok. I think in the beginning they really believed their ways would give the kids an advantage. But I also believe that at some point they began to push down some niggling thoughts about how disadvantaged the kids were in many ways. I believe the same is true of the Bates, but rather than push down their thoughts, the Bates parents continue to make adjustments for their kids' well being.

[Churchhoney]

JB & M had real world experiences into their 20s. I think JB & M knew/know what they're doing to a degree. The kids lack of education and social experiences keep the kids easier to control and less likely to run amok. I think in the beginning they really believed their ways would give the kids an advantage. But I also believe that at some point they began to push down some niggling thoughts about how disadvantaged the kids were in many ways. I believe the same is true of the Bates, but rather than push down their thoughts, the Bates parents continue to make adjustments for their kids' well being.

 

Yeah, I agree. My "ignorance is kind of an excuse thing" was an attempt to give them M the benefit of the doubt. But I don't really have a doubt. She (as well as JB, in spades) really don't care about their kids, in my opinion. (okay, more doubt benefit -- can't help myself, apparently) They care about being able to control their kids. And ensuring that your kids are incapable of navigating the actual world and are therefore terrified to venture from your apron strings is a handy way to maintain that control.

Edited February 22, 2016 by Churchhoney

[Fuzzysox]

http://davidlovespriscilla.com/category/family-updates/

Over on davidlovesprincilla, there are

lots of pictures of the wreck of a house being remodeled. Ma and PA Keller visited and brought along a slew of brothers and sisters to work on the house. I must say, I'm a bit jealous since we have to have most things done for us and it's expensive! All that free labor! Fundies really all seem to know all about house remodeling, don't they? I wonder if it's up to code, or even inspected at all!

Their next door neighbors popped over to show them how to lay hardwood floors. The mom and her daughter are wearing skirts while doing messy work so I'm guessing they live in a Fundie enclive?

Prissy is PREGNANT!!!! 

[Defrauder]

Isn't the power meter and the box etc, the property of the power company? You're going to Hell David!

That's what I thought and they put a lock on it for a reason. Either dangerous or not permitted  or non payment.   I thought he would have to have the electric company come out and unlock it.  Oh well - pecans, electrical boxes God let him do it.

[Barb23]

Prissy is PREGNANT!!!!

Wow, a new Waller is on the way. That video was something -- Watching Pris grasp for words is still hard to see& listen to. I'm sorry, but after watching great amounts of mystery & detective shows & Lifetime movies, why do I think that TFDW has a hatchet hidden in his back pocket?

[Readalot]

Wow, a new Waller is on the way. That video was something -- Watching Pris grasp for words is still hard to see& listen to. I'm sorry, but after watching great amounts of mystery & detective shows & Lifetime movies, why do I think that TFDW has a hatchet hidden in his back pocket?

between Pris's word salad and David trying not to explode ( I too feel like one of these days he will snap) I felt helpless. Pris needs help!

[Defrauder]

Another blessing for Drissilla.  I watched the announcement video thinking of  David  watching Priscilla go on and on about love, needs, God..... and he's thinking, with clenched jaws,  I wish I was with a really cool dude right now, Pris is out of her mind and acts like a child and hurray another one's on the way.

[louannems]

I watched Princilla ramble on and on, changing thoughts mid-stream, off to another tangent and , Oh My Princilla! I myself am not an eloquent speaker my any means, but Princilla! Oh Oh Oh! Meeting the needs of her husband, Jesus loves children, love means giving, not getting, husbands and wives are different, blessings, all in one sentence!

[BitterApple]

Priscilla is trying very, very hard to convince herself her life doesn't suck. David is going to lose it very soon.

[Defrauder]

Pris is right about one thing, her husband does have 'different' needs.

[Fuzzysox]

I never realized that the are Keller boys of marrying age. I always thought Anna had only one brother.

[RazzleberryPie]

Wow, a new Waller is on the way. That video was something -- Watching Pris grasp for words is still hard to see& listen to. I'm sorry, but after watching great amounts of mystery & detective shows & Lifetime movies, why do I think that TFDW has a hatchet hidden in his back pocket?

Or a lobotomy pick. That would explain so much.

TFDW was born in the wrong time and place. He'd make an excellent Hitler Youth.

[tabloidlover]

I am so disturbed after watching that video!!  She looks scared to death of him.  And he looked like his anger was in check by a mere thread.  I am very nervous for her and those kids. 

[riverblue22]

Priscilla is never going to survive this cult.  She will never be able to handle a dozen kids, and she won't have the hustle in her to con neighbors and grandparents into doing her laundry.

Edited February 22, 2016 by riverblue22

[JoanArc]

Honestly, wish Prissy's marriage would just go ahead and collapse. She and Anna could get out together, maybe with their non-cult siblings help. A girl can dream.

[GeeGolly]

It is a sad commentary that being intelligent, well educated and articulate is labeled as 'elitist'.

It is true though. My mom was from down south and her accent fit okay with parts of Massachusetts, but by the time she had kids and moved to a different area of Mass, both my parents intentionally spoke without accents and used no slang. When I reached middle school I realized how proper I spoke, and my cousins would also tease me and my siblings about it. I use slang all the time now, and often times don't even realize it.

[farmgal4]

Another blessing for Drissilla.  I watched the announcement video thinking of  David  watching Priscilla go on and on about love, needs, God..... and he's thinking, with clenched jaws,  I wish I was with a really cool dude right now, Pris is out of her mind and acts like a child and hurray another one's on the way.

Every video they post is beyond difficult to watch. Priscilla appears to have the mentality/intelligence of an 8-year-old, so it's possible she's happy with what she's gotten herself into, only because she's not intelligent enough to know better.

I hate to snark on babies, but poor Davia. I don't think I've ever seen an uglier baby.

[BitterApple]

I hate to snark on babies, but poor Davia. I don't think I've ever seen an uglier baby.

Odd, because both David and Pris are attractive people. I can't figure out who Davia looks like because it sure isn't either one of her parents.

[Vaysh]

What is it with these fundies and ageing prematurely; they both look like they are in their mid- to late thirties. Deep crow's feet, jowling, saggy chins. Is it the excessive fake smiling? Poor diet? Too many kids?