Sweet Fellowship: Duggars and Friends (aka the Bates Family and Other Featured Families Thread)

[Churchhoney]

Esther Schrader being dragged to Africa sounds horrible, but the reality is it's horrible in a different way. Her husband John has obtained the family suitable accommodation, but the way he burns through his fathers' parishioners cash is the horrific part. He had a fucking piano shipped to him at great expense, plus an ice machine, nobody needs those, and last time I checked, he wouldn't dare try to convert a Muslim (which is sensible), so his conversion total was" like 2 people. Tens of thousands, possibly hundreds of thousands of dollars for 2 people.

 

I'm pretty sure this is one of the early Schrader Africa stories. It was about one conversion of a guy who, along with relatives, had already been converted by some other western missionaries to the "wrong" Christianity. Some of the relatives had since died, including the guy's mom, I think. As I recall, JS informed this poor man that he needed to convert to JS's brand or burn in hell and, apparently, added that his now dead relatives were frying in hell because they'd opted for the wrong church. There was some horrifying discussion of the poor man weeping for his eternally tortured loved ones. Can't see how it doesn't constitute pure evil to do that to a person. .... And yet I think that's not dissimilar from the way a lot of these churches get their converts, even in the U.S..

[Satchels of gold]

Reminds me of this

http://www.godlovesuganda.com

Awesome documentary .

[DoctorWhovian]

Meanwhile, Miss Marjorie J. is starting a new book. Looks like maybe an updated-for-teens version of C.S. Lewis's The Four Loves, kind of?

 

https://marjoriejackson.wordpress.com/

 

That girl is so not Duggar material. And even though I do think that she was in it largely for the famewhoring, I'm still really happy that she got out (maybe sad for Josiah, depending on how into it he was, but happy for her). Maybe she was just childishly clueless about her famewhore feelings or something. At any rate, she does  things -- and actual intellectual and artistic things at that -- and anybody who does things had better run far from the Duggars, since they don't permit it. All they permit in young people is grifting and paralysis. Truly a nightmare.

 

Girl needs a better example than Charlie Brown and Peppermint Patty. 

[BitterApple]

A sure clue your life is totally fubar'd: it's an UPWARD mobility move to relocate the fam to ZAMBIA. I presume these whack jobs also home deliver? Because it's hard to imagine any hospital discharging a newborn to a freaking pop out camper in the woods.

I know right? I'd bet my house they do homebirths. If the Shraders had health coverage, I'd be bowled over in shock.

It's pretty damn scary when TFDW is looking like the prize out of the Keller husbands. Yikes.

[Sew Sumi]

A sure clue your life is totally fubar'd: it's an UPWARD mobility move to relocate the fam to ZAMBIA. I presume these whack jobs also home deliver? Because it's hard to imagine any hospital discharging a newborn to a freaking pop out camper in the woods.

Yes, they home birth. Shrader found Esther a midwife in Zambia, qualifications unknown.

[Almost 3000]

snipped not to repeat comment

I don't think its a good idea to even suggest this because this family would and has sent offspring off for reprograming of any issues that don't fall in line with their fundamental beliefs.

[Absolom]

Yes, I believe all of Esther's births have been at "home."  She had a horrendously long labor about two births ago. 

[Churchhoney]

I remain genuinely stumped at how any human being of even below average intelligence buys into this kind of God/religion.

 

Me, too. Although I suppose it has something to do with being a somewhat fearful person who also is very susceptible to being guilted into things. Plenty of people are like that, and if you're a manipulative sort I'm sure you can and will push them.

 

And then in the developing world you're probably going to get some unfortunate folks who've bought into the idea that Westerners are more knowledgeable than they, so when a Westerner says something fervently and supposedly for their benefit, they may be too inclined to believe it.

 

Unfortunately, I think you can probably be fairly intelligent and still have your intelligence overwhelmed by all these other emotional tendencies.

Reminds me of this

http://www.godlovesuganda.com

Awesome documentary .

 

Indeed.

[Henri205]

Maybe they are?  We are in fundie-land after all, you never know.

Or sister and sister. Girlfriends?

Sorry, I could NOT resist.

[louannems]

Reminds me of this

http://www.godlovesuganda.com

Awesome documentary .

I saw this at Seattle Film Festival a few years ago. It's a very powerful documentary about extreme American Christians who have been practically kicked out of American who preach to the Ugandans the evils of homosexuality. "A homosexual man eats the poo poo of another man". I kid you not. The gays in the doc are true to themselves and prevail.

[queenanne]

Meanwhile, Miss Marjorie J. is starting a new book. Looks like maybe an updated-for-teens version of C.S. Lewis's The Four Loves, kind of?

 

https://marjoriejackson.wordpress.com/

 

That girl is so not Duggar material. And even though I do think that she was in it largely for the famewhoring, I'm still really happy that she got out (maybe sad for Josiah, depending on how into it he was, but happy for her). Maybe she was just childishly clueless about her famewhore feelings or something. At any rate, she does  things -- and actual intellectual and artistic things at that -- and anybody who does things had better run far from the Duggars, since they don't permit it. All they permit in young people is grifting and paralysis. Truly a nightmare.

 

Yeah, I feel for her.  

 

Actually, I'm not even sure how "she" is allowed to exist, considering in my experience fundies would never let you write a thing that "wasn't true", and have such an aversion to any figurative language not in the Bible as being teh ebil.

[Churchhoney]

Yeah, I feel for her.  

 

Actually, I'm not even sure how "she" is allowed to exist, considering in my experience fundies would never let you write a thing that "wasn't true", and have such an aversion to any figurative language not in the Bible as being teh ebil.

 

Makes you wonder whether her family has waded only shallowly into these weeds, doesn't it? There are a lot of things about them that make them seem different and not very bought in to the whole package, their treatment of Marjorie being a huge example.

[lookeyloo]

Yeah, I feel for her.  

 

Actually, I'm not even sure how "she" is allowed to exist, considering in my experience fundies would never let you write a thing that "wasn't true", and have such an aversion to any figurative language not in the Bible as being teh ebil.

And how boring her life would have been with Josiah - he who presumably hasn't read anything, has no topics of conversation that we are aware of, and would be trying to draw her into the Duggar way of things.  I agree they are not at match, at least not at this point

[flyingdi]

I have always heard from various sources that it is actually easier to interest intelligent people in cults than dumb people. Maybe because the intelligent people are the ones searching for answers? I don't know but I do know a lot of cults will specifically target college campuses and the like.

[BitterApple]

I think Josiah has a lot of curiosity though. When the Duggars visited Stonehenge, Josiah tagged along with the guide and asked lots of questions while the other kids trampled around in the "No Tresspassing" areas and looked bored out of their minds. I also thought he spoke very eloquently at his graduation party. Si is a lot like Josh, where if given the right education they could have really made something of themselves. I think he saw the Jacksons as his escape route and I think Marjorie saw the Duggars as her ticket to fame.

[kokapetl]

I have always heard from various sources that it is actually easier to interest intelligent people in cults than dumb people. Maybe because the intelligent people are the ones searching for answers? I don't know but I do know a lot of cults will specifically target college campuses and the like.

I've read that smarter people are easier to indoctrinate if they're receptive, they're simply just quicker on the uptake.

In other news, I had to post this. I cannot believe Sierra is 25.

[barbedwire]

Is that Sierra's husband?  Does he have man-boobs? 

 

I had no idea she was only 25!

[zenme]

Holy moly! Sierra is 35 if she's a day! Fundamentalism is hard on a woman.  Even Jill is looking older than her years, IMO. 

[Sew Sumi]

Actually, she just turned 26 a few weeks ago. Still...

[barbedwire]

LOL!  Ben is giving the dude the "caught in the headlights tilt my head adoring" gaze that all fundie women are required to master.

[kokapetl]

LOL! Ben is giving the dude the "caught in the headlights tilt my head adoring" gaze that all fundie women are required to master.

Maybe he was trying to avoid staring at the guys boobs.

[barbedwire]

Maybe he was trying to avoid staring at the guys boobs.

 

 

LOL!  You win the internet.

[Aja]

LOL!  You win the internet.

I second this.

[barbedwire]

I swear I am still laughing. Better than the Josie is licking the new baby line.

[Happyfatchick]

My 13 year old grandson calls them "moobs"

[BitterApple]

Wow, the Fundie lifestyle sure doesn't help delay the aging process. I thought Sierra was around 36. I'm shocked to read that she's only in her mind 20s. I always thought it was bizarre she was hanging around the Duggar girls, but now it makes sense given they're in the same age range.

[pinkelephant3]

I love the bates but I hear they are worse than the diggers with their religion

[Satchels of gold]

I love the bates but I hear they are worse than the diggers with their religion

( rubs hands together) oh, do tell!

[pinkelephant3]

( rubs hands together) oh, do tell!

I have read that they are closer to the inner circle of gothard and hold higher positions in the church

[Sew Sumi]

We know that Gil Bates is on the IBLP Board of Directors. 

[BrianJ62]

How does the Family Willis Family fit into all this

[queenanne]

I have always heard from various sources that it is actually easier to interest intelligent people in cults than dumb people. Maybe because the intelligent people are the ones searching for answers? I don't know but I do know a lot of cults will specifically target college campuses and the like.

 

I think it's something like "easier to interest intelligent people in complicated cults like Kaballah and Scientology, because tricky knowledge-based things that take years to learn and "aren't for everyone", appeals to their vanity and pride about being S-M-R-T." "Very few people "get" these high concepts!  Clearly you guys are the cream of the crop!"  I don't think you'd get them with some cult that worshiped, say, watering cans. :) 

[Micks Picks]

There was discussion on here some time ago about a wackadoo preacher and his helper known to specialize in campus quads.  The area, not the wheelchair.  They sounded downright nuts yet many here remembered them and I think said they attacked followings.  Nothing fancy about his religion, just nuts.

 

As for Sierra, I too am stunned at her young age.  Well, she's been rode hard.

[cheatincheetos]

Why is Ben giving the other guy Michelle Duggar's husband-adoring gaze?

"My eyes are up here, Ben."

 

Edited November 11, 2015 by cheatincheetos

[Purpose to defraud]

Wow, the Fundie lifestyle sure doesn't help delay the aging process. I thought Sierra was around 36. I'm shocked to read that she's only in her mind 20s. I always thought it was bizarre she was hanging around the Duggar girls, but now it makes sense given they're in the same age range.

Maybe Bill Gothard doesn't like moisturizer.

[Churchhoney]

Sierra is 35 if she's a day! Fundamentalism is hard on a woman. 

 

No, no. It just brings you more quickly to Jesus.

There was discussion on here some time ago about a wackadoo preacher and his helper known to specialize in campus quads.  The area, not the wheelchair.  They sounded downright nuts yet many here remembered them and I think said they attacked followings.  Nothing fancy about his religion, just nuts.

 

Of course the college campus thing cuts two ways. It may relate to intelligence. But it definitely relates to many people being searching and confused at that period, and many also being lonely and without their usual rudders for the first time.

Edited November 11, 2015 by Churchhoney

[DangerousMinds]

A sure clue your life is totally fubar'd: it's an UPWARD mobility move to relocate the fam to ZAMBIA. I presume these whack jobs also home deliver? Because it's hard to imagine any hospital discharging a newborn to a freaking pop out camper in the woods.

Hospitals will release newborns to homeless women. With referrals to shelters, etc of course.

[crazycatlady58]

The Willis family are what the Duggers could have been.

[BrianJ62]

They pretty much don't. Their show forum is here: http://forums.previously.tv/forum/1715-the-willis-family/

AFAIK, the Willis family doesn't follow GotHard like the Bates and Duggars and Kellers. I watched most of their first season TLC episodes. The Willises are MILES ahead of all those folks in terms of sanity, smarts, education, skills, and socialization. The Willises do, apparently, hold conservative/evangelical type Christian beliefs. But their homeschooling is a world apart from the slapdash and willfully ignorant "homeschooling" in the Duggar household. Mom is a college graduate. The kids are encouraged to explore the arts and (gasp!) science, and to compete in sports.

There's a lot to see on the Willis Family website. Here's their "About Us" description:

Yes, it's self-promoting, but these people are professional entertainers so I'd expect that. They aren't perfect and IIRC there are critical comments on the Wills Family show forum. But, in the Willis website statement, I also note the absence of typical fundie-speak. No "purposing," "worship," "modest," and other nonsense that glassy-eyed MEchelle and creepy JB are always spouting.

I find them refreshingly different from the Duggars. When watching their show I couldn't escape the obvious comparison between these poised and articulate Willis kids (from teens to small ones) and the inarticulate Duggarlings. Sigh.

Thank you for the great answer.

[Aja]

Yes, it's self-promoting, but these people are professional entertainers so I'd expect that. 

Exactly. And you know what? If the Duggars had one ounce of honesty, humility and/or modesty, they could have easily kept their show and the mainstream public's approval. Their desperate, transparent, frantic, pathetic attempts to insist that they are still perfect and deserving of their own show because it was no big deal/it happens in every family/here are Jill and Jessa, look how fine they are/evil liberal media/victimized all over again/Hobby Lobby construction only served to shine an extremely unforgiving spotlight on their hypocrisy. If they would admit to being human once in a while, if they would put their pointy judge fingers away for five seconds and learn something from the Bates and/or the Willises, we would be spared watching this train wreck go up in the flames of their own denial.

[Purpose to defraud]

Go Aja go!

[queenanne]

No, no. It just brings you more quickly to Jesus.

 

Of course the college campus thing cuts two ways. It may relate to intelligence. But it definitely relates to many people being searching and confused at that period, and many also being lonely and without their usual rudders for the first time.

 

Yes, that's true - it's the whole "divide and conquer" thing.  Get someone away from their traditional support system and moorings, and provide another alternate.  

 

Other quick signposts to figure out if you've gotten yourself involved with a cult:  Any non-creepy religion of merit, will let you bring a friend or even more than one friend, along to an informational meeting/study of sacred texts.  Anything you can learn alone, you can learn in a group.  Anyone who insists upon separating you from your friends, is a religion up to no good, feeling the need to "work you over" alone, without benefit of any one in your usual cohort to function as a check.  Which only makes sense - someone who wants to "spread the good news  of the gospel", wants to spread it to as many people as possible without delay, not worry about building exclusionary bonds.  Any situation where they try to "assign" group members off to individuals from the start, is bad news.

Edited November 12, 2015 by queenanne

[cheatincheetos]

Maybe Bill Gothard doesn't like moisturizer.

Any kind of ointment with lubricating properties is sinful because it might tempt someone to impurity, doncha know.

[cheatincheetos]

Of course the college campus thing cuts two ways. It may relate to intelligence. But it definitely relates to many people being searching and confused at that period, and many also being lonely and without their usual rudders for the first time.

Especially the latter. I remember a semester in a freshman-heavy dorm, in a college town that had very few commuting from home. Wow, were the evangelists aggressive with the freshmen students.

[Purpose to defraud]

Exactly. And you know what? If the Duggars had one ounce of honesty, humility and/or modesty, they could have easily kept their show and the mainstream public's approval. Their desperate, transparent, frantic, pathetic attempts to insist that they are still perfect and deserving of their own show because it was no big deal/it happens in every family/here are Jill and Jessa, look how fine they are/evil liberal media/victimized all over again/Hobby Lobby construction only served to shine an extremely unforgiving spotlight on their hypocrisy. If they would admit to being human once in a while, if they would put their pointy judge fingers away for five seconds and learn something from the Bates and/or the Willises, we would be spared watching this train wreck go up in the flames of their own denial.

They are far too (self)righteous to ever admit fault.

[MunichNark]

I'd never heard of the Willis family, so I looked them up and watched a few videos. Frankly, I'm horrified. Pushy parents who will stop at nothing to have their children on the stage to become famous.

When do these kids ever have time to themselves, or have friends? The amount of stuff they do is staggering. Irish Dancing alone for example, several seem to have competed at Feis, that would take a HUGE amount of training every single day.

 

What is their relationship with the Duggars, if any?

[Tabbygirl521]

I am sure the Willises are lovely, but I hope they continue honing their grammar and writing skills. Because if you look closely, they are saying they do horses.

[kokapetl]

I looked at the Willis family website, both the 17 and 16 year old sons have shirtless 6 pack ab flaunting photos on their bio pages. No Duggar could or would ever do that.

Seems like the dad used the settlement money to quit his job and become a full time stage parent.

[Fuzzysox]

I looked at the Willis family website, both the 17 and 16 year old sons have shirtless 6 pack ab flaunting photos on their bio pages. No Duggar could or would ever do that.

Seems like the dad used the settlement money to quit his job and become a full time stage parent.

The settlement was from a horrible accident in Illinois that his parents experienced. It was news for months. The Willis family lost 6 of their children in that accident. They truly deserved every penny they got.

 

http://www.vietchristian.com/gospel/ScottWillis.asp

[Sew Sumi]

Sierra dropped her latest edition today. Edyn Grace. That is practically normal after fucking Spurgeon.

eta: Sorry, I can't paste the Instagram link from my phone. :(

Edited November 13, 2015 by Sew Sumi