Sweet Fellowship: Duggars and Friends (aka the Bates Family and Other Featured Families Thread)

[Literata]

 

I guess they have to have some contact since Joe is staying with the Bateses while attending college.

Have we determined that he's actually staying with the Bateses, and not in a dorm? I'm really pulling for the possibility that he and Tori Bates are involved. IMO, they're far too young to marry, but I rather like the Bateses and think having Kelly and Gil for in-laws might benefit a Duggar or two.

My cable provider doesn't offer the UP network, so I was able to see only the first episode of "Bringing Up Bates" on YouTube. I'm really hoping the show becomes availble on Netflix or Amazon.

[GEML]

If he is staying with the Bates, Gil

Is making Jim Bob pay. Two can play at that game.

[cereality]

I'd be surprised if Joseph was staying with the Bates -- not because Gil and JB couldn't work out a deal, but because that school of his seems incredibly strict. It seems like the kind of place that would require all students to stay in single sex dorms unless they were a commuter student living with their own parents; maybe exceptions would be made for someone who could commute from a grandparents or aunt/uncle's home, but living in a family friend's home where there are beautiful daughters who are students of the same college? Seems like a college that requires parental notes for interracial dating would have something to say about that. Though maybe not -- maybe it's ok bc Gil is Gothard's right hand and the Duggars are a "known" family, so there could be no hanky panky as for as the school is concerned.

 

And I know it's been a few weeks, but I'm still shocked that both Chad's dad and grandfather are doctors. I mean I believe it -- they said "medical doctors," and I'm not suggesting Chad is doing bad for himself as an office manager and it's not necessary that every child of a MD becomes a doctor or lawyer or engineer himself, BUT I feel like families of MDs are very pro education . . . which clearly didn't hold for the second generation as they view unaccredited schools like Crown College which teach things like finance from a "Christian perspective" to be good enough.

[Fuzzysox]

I saw a picture of a baby on The FB page of the Bates fans. I think Alyssa had her baby but the page's owner didn't say anything just posted a picture of what appears to be little Allie Webster.

[Literata]

 

I saw a picture of a baby on The FB page of the Bates fans.

Just checked Alyssa's Instagram (did I really just type that?). She posted a pregnant picture an hour ago and hashtagged it #2weekstogo, so unless girlfriend had a really, really fast labor, I think Allie is still baking.

[IndianPaintbrush]

The Bates fan page on Facebook is horrible.  Whoever the administrator is never puts captions on photos.

[Ljohnson1987]

People are saying that the top picture is Alyssa as a baby, and the bottom one, is an ultrasound of Allie. I agree that they suck at captioning pictures.

[Fuzzysox]

The Bates fan page on Facebook is horrible.  Whoever the administrator is never puts captions on photos.

Truth so it is a random baby she found somewhere?

[Literata]

I think it's interesting that she's naming the baby Allie Jane. IIRC, Jane is Gil's mom's first name, and Grandma really didn't seem to be all about any of the Bates kids.

[GEML]

Without knowing their actual curriculum, there might be much to recommend some finance courses taught from a Christian perspective. The Bible had a lot to say about good stewardship, loaning money, forgiveness of debt and a lot of other things that would be a welcome change in at least some of today's banking practices.

[cereality]

I don't know anything about Tori Bates, but that middle section of Bates girls -- Alyssa, Tori, Carlin, Josie -- seems pretty spunky. Alyssa has pretty much said she can't picture being able to handle more than 6-8 kids, and frankly I think she was just being polite. I'd be shocked if she and John went for more than 4. She seems to be loving her life in Florida away from her huge family; she doesn't seem to be missing the family too much and whenever they're back John couldn't be more uncomfortable. Tori, Carlin, and Josie seem pretty spunky themselves -- one was all over Brandon; another one was talking back to her sister who dared to say something about her cooking by telling her -- the family can either eat what she makes or get in the kitchen and cook for themselves.

 

So if Joseph goes for Tori, he very likely could be getting a girl with some personality who doesn't want 20 kids of her own. Frankly I'm betting the Bates are a little more loose about courtships and Joseph could even get a peck in there or [gasp] have a conversation or two with his girlfriend where chaperones are somewhere but not close enough to listen and participate. The Bates seem like good inlaws -- they care about their kids' spouses but don't seem like they're trying to control them (or financially can't control them by doing things like giving them free homes and then expect them to dance to their tune). Kelly has even said that their rules are for their house, and the married couples make rules for their own households. So that opens the door to having a normal life with 2 working spouses, 3 kids, and a TV if they so desired. And the Bates kids are less isolated as they seem to have friends -- we've seen the teens have birthday parties at the house that include age appropriate friends, not just siblings or huge fundie families that don't seem to know the birthday kid. Who knows what Joseph is studying -- JB made some references to the ministry/counseling etc. -- but if Joseph gets with Tori, they could get married and move to wherever he gets a job, or frankly even stay in the Bates' area bc they seem to be less intrusive as inlaws than the Duggars would be.

 

If I were Joseph I'd be making the moves on what could be a "normal" marriage situation in the fundie world. I think Joseph is less of a douche than JD, so he would be ok with a woman who had opinions; he actually comes across pretty young and fairly flexible, so I feel like he could "grow up" with Tori and become whatever kind of man Tori desires -- as he doesn't seem to have strong views right now about being the headship in a marriage.

Without knowing their actual curriculum, there might be much to recommend some finance courses taught from a Christian perspective. The Bible had a lot to say about good stewardship, loaning money, forgiveness of debt and a lot of other things that would be a welcome change in at least some of today's banking practices.

I get what you're saying but are they teaching net present value and internal rate of return as all the other finance programs in the country, or is it only re the ethics and religious views of finance? I mean we don't know, but at some level -- some of this religious education waters down the subject matter while pumping up the religious aspect.

[JessDVD]

If Crown College is any good, and I don't know anything about them other than that I perused their course requirements for secondary education (my major, more or less, mine was K-12 music, but close enough) and business which includes finance, and obviously who knows how the titles of the classes compare to what's taught in them, but the course requirements for both those degrees seemed to me to be reasonable - then they are teaching their students how to actually be legitimate financial advisers or whatever. There are probably people out there who don't care that the service they're getting is bad, as long as it's from a Christian guy, but I think it's probably fair to guess that *most* people want their financial adviser/kids' Christian school teachers/whatever to actually know their field. Maybe I'm too willing to extend the benefit of the doubt, but just because it's not accredited, doesn't mean it's not educating its students, just that their students may be limited in how they are able to use their degree in real life, which one would hope they'd know going into it. I know for education, a degree from a non-accredited college means you can only teach in a Christian school, which I'm sure is fine for many people, but does that matter for business? And if Crown College were regularly pumping out graduates who didn't really know finance or how to teach kids, the graduates wouldn't be getting or keeping jobs, and people would stop going there. At least, one would think.... I'm coming at this from my friend who just started adjunct teaching an accounting class at a local community college and the accounting dept is not very good there right now - so local employers have apparently been saying, don't hire grads from that CC because they're not very good.

[Joe Jitsu913]

Since I work work with a graduate of Clown College... I will say this. Even though it's not accredited, my co-worker is what I consider one of the best in his unit, quite possibly the entire department. He's intelligent, professional, knowledgeable etc. even moreso than his co-workers who attended secular/accredited colleges. I don't feel that Clown College has hindered him in any way. He's done very well for himself, so it is possible to succeed as an alumni of that school.

[GEML]

I can imagine a small regional bank or credit union with specific ties being pleased to take student with good credentials who had studied finance with a "Christian perspective". For instance, someone who might be loaning money to churches and religious affiliated entities is going to need to be able to read church accountant books - and that can be as simple as Quicken to some really complicated accounting software. If you had had an internship working in the finance office of a mega-church, that might be valuable experience in understanding how those churches work.

Another possibility might be in the area of micro loans to Christian small businesses or debt relief These have been shown to be reliable and some churches are taking them on as a response of pay day lenders. Being hired to oversee that job within a church would be a real job with a degree like the one being offered. You can't simply believe every story you hear - you still need to know finance principles, but you also need some compassion and flexibility - where do you draw those lines?

I spent my childhood growing up on Christian colleges and my young adulthood on the campuses of some of the most prestigious secular campuses in the US, including one of the most vaulted Ivy League ones. And here's what I can say - classes get watered down because a professor doesn't want to do the work. And that happens everywhere. And great professors teach everywhere, even at some of the most rinky dinky little schools. Not as many as the great schools, but you can find them if you really try.

[Barb23]

I think it's interesting that she's naming the baby Allie Jane. IIRC, Jane is Gil's mom's first name, and Grandma really didn't seem to be all about any of the Bates kids.

I agree Gil's parents aren't into the great number of grandchildren but I think Alyssa is one of Mama Jane's(think that's what they call her) favorites. On the Thanksgiving episode Alyssa & John arrived a few days early at the grandparent's home. It looked like she was a great help to Mama Jane plus they got some one on one time together, which is probably a rarity with the grandchildren.

[leighroda]

I love the Bates show, they don't remind you that they have 19 kids every 5th word. I get the impression that we are really just seeing logistically how they do things. No condemnation about how they do things "different" (you can read that as better)

[Wellfleet]

I spent my childhood growing up on Christian colleges and my young adulthood on the campuses of some of the most prestigious secular campuses in the US, including one of the most vaulted Ivy League ones. And here's what I can say - classes get watered down because a professor doesn't want to do the work. And that happens everywhere. And great professors teach everywhere, even at some of the most rinky dinky little schools. Not as many as the great schools, but you can find them if you really try.

 

Agree, every school has a few terrific teachers, and sadly a few really weak ones as well. As the professor told us on the first day of Statistics 101, "In this class you'll learn that everything in the world is a Bell Curve. No matter what is being measured, in nearly every case, there will be a lot in the middle, with things sloping downward on each side, with far less at both the Strong and Weak ends..."  In the 35 years since I've found him to be right almost every time. Nearly all groups are full of Average, with a few really Outstanding and a few really Poor - and diminishing amounts from both sides as we head for dead-center Average. Time for that old George Carlin joke: "Every medical school class has someone who graduated in last place. And one of us has an appointment with that guy at 9 AM tomorrow..."

[Literata]

 

I get the impression that we are really just seeing logistically how they do things. No condemnation about how they do things "different" (you can read that as better)

I've seen only the first episode, as my cable provider doesn't offer the UP network, but I find these little "Name That Bates" clips on YouTube kind of amusing:

[Fuzzysox]

Bradley Bates is so photogenic!! He never takes a bad picture and looks HAPPY in everyone I have ever seen. He needs a modeling contract stat!

[EarlGreyTea]

Have we determined that he's actually staying with the Bateses, and not in a dorm? I'm really pulling for the possibility that he and Tori Bates are involved. IMO, they're far too young to marry, but I rather like the Bateses and think having Kelly and Gil for in-laws might benefit a Duggar or two.

My cable provider doesn't offer the UP network, so I was able to see only the first episode of "Bringing Up Bates" on YouTube. I'm really hoping the show becomes availble on Netflix or Amazon.

 

I'll be honest, one of the main reasons I want a Tori/Joseph pairing is so that TLC and UP can have a Pacquaio-Mayweather style fight over who gets to air the wedding, distribution rights, photos, etc. It would be almost worth hearing Michelle blather on about the seasons of life.

Edited April 9, 2015 by EarlGreyTea

[JoanArc]

So...these Willis people have a show on TLC now. I can see them crushing the Duggars in a year or two. There's always someone better, even if they have 7 fewer kids!

 

http://www.tlc.com/tv-shows/tlc-presents/meet-the-willis-family/

[Wellfleet]

So...these Willis people have a show on TLC now. I can see them crushing the Duggars in a year or two. There's always someone better, even if they have 7 fewer kids!

 

http://www.tlc.com/tv-shows/tlc-presents/meet-the-willis-family/

 

Me too. As soon as I saw the first promo for the Willis show, I thought "uh-oh, competition for the Duggars..." Makes me wonder to just what extent Boob might go to keep viewers, the show, the paycheck.

[3girlsforus]

Wow - I remember the Willis accident. It was terrible. It will be interesting to see how that show affects the Duggars. I really hope JimBob doesn't start trying to marry off everyone in sight just for a story line. On the other hand it could work in the kids favor. If he's really desperate maybe he'll let Jana do something like get a job or go to school just for the attention. 

[floridamom]

I was just thinking about poor sweet Priscilla Waller. She has stated in many videos that TFDW makes her do that she makes "mistakes" all the time and her wonderful husband is sweet to her about those things..Does anyone out there know what she is talking about? What kind of mistakes does she make? I was horrified to hear that. Sounds like she is somewhat afraid of her husband...I also am under the impression that David has quite a temper and can be temperamental at times..just a feeling I get when I observe him, and Pris is afraid of "setting him off"...anyone out there, like maybe GEML, who has some insight in to this lifestyle have any idea what Priscilla is referring to regarding these "mistakes" she makes? Burns toast,(?) too lightly toasted (?), coffee too strong/weak (?) etc? Thanks.

[Fuzzysox]

The Willis family suffered so much. I remember when it happened as they lived in Illinois at the time. So happy that they have moved on. 

[JessDVD]

What happened with the Willis family? I thought their video was cute and I agree, it only takes one fun new family for another's show to wane.

[Fuzzysox]

http://wgntv.com/2014/11/06/tragedy-to-triumph-the-willis-family-20-years-after-the-van-crash-that-claimed-6-of-their-9-children/

[GEML]

I don't know what Priscilla means by "mistakes" to be honest. If they were witnessing tapes, to be used to help women identify with her, she would use examples just as you say, such as burning the toast. And David would give "mistakes" of his own such as forgetting to put his socks in the hamper.

Because they are, alas, the face of Gothardism, I'm afraid that what it means is that David doesn't make mistake and she does. She doesn't say what they are, all the better for Gothard women to project their own on to their own lives (or their husbands to point them out) but don't worry! It's ok! Because she's reminding these same husbands to be sweet and kind to their poor little wives. Mind you, it isn't even David reminding them, but the wife kind of saying, oh, but the men really are sweet and patient with us, aren't they? We klutzy, forgetful women?

Even if he doesn't have a temper. What a way to have to live.

[JoanArc]

I didn't know about the Willis' terrible tragedy. Horrible. I already like them so much more than the Duggars. Cute blond boys that are still young vs. paunchy middle-aged looking teens/20's? A family that can actually sing? HELL YES. Hopefully fame won't ruin them the same way. I also hope Michelle is ready for the show to be canceled. You can't top losing SIX kids in a car accident with your 'birth control miscarriage'.

Edited April 10, 2015 by JoanArc

[Mrsjumbo]

What a terrible accident. I also wasn't familiar with the story. How wonderful they were able to move on after such a tragedy.

I do have to be somewhat snarky & say that I don't like those J names at all!

[Micks Picks]

This other family has a ton of J names too, and many of them are not used by a Duggar.  The Duggars need a lot more kids to fill out the allotment of J's.  Get busy there, MEchelle.  And why no Jack used by anybody.  It's a fact, I like Jack.

 

I kind of think they are a one off special with all the other shows advertised there.  I love Irish music but would be bored to tears with singing kids week after week.  Anyway, these weren't the kids involved in the accident.  They were the brothers and sisters of one of their parents, and the current crop wasn't born yet.  Are they Fundy protestant?  The intermarriage in a generation will be horrible with the Duggars.

[JenCarroll]

The part where Pris said she makes mistakes every day but David forgives her sounds like spousal abuse.

Agreed. That is one scary guy.

What a terrible accident. I also wasn't familiar with the story. How wonderful they were able to move on after such a tragedy.

I do have to be somewhat snarky & say that I don't like those J names at all!

JEDI? Are they ... wtf?

[kalamac]

I hope Jedi means they are huge Star Wars fans, and also watch other mainstream TV. Most of the girls were wearing jeans, so that's a positive sign for being slightly more 'normal'.

[JenCarroll]

Oh those girls are defrauding away -- performing in short skirts and sleeveless tops. :-)

[floridamom]

Many thanks, GEML, for responding to my post. I appreciate it. Having said that, I agree with other posts here that it sounds like some type of "abuse" to me by David. If Priscilla has to be so concerned about pleasing David, and feels the need to comment about her "performance' as a wife, that just isn't right...whether it be wife OR husband doing the apologizing. Where are the Kellers in protecting their daughters? The Shrader daughter included...

[BitterApple]

I'm not so sure the Duggars will fade away. After all, they're the perfect trainwreck. It's like they have some kind of weird hold over us, lol. When it comes to TLC shows I watch them for snark and the Little Couple for a family I actually like. I don't know if I'm ready to emotionally invest in another reality show:)

[cereality]

On the David and Priscilla topic -- say Priscilla is making mistakes -- like burning dinner or a child is crying when David is trying to relax after work and he doesn't like the noise or whatever -- and he yells at her. Is she REALLY afraid of him? To where she'll apologize and be scared he'll leave? I mean look at him -- he's hardly a man. He's like 5-6 and 120 lb of dork. If a guy like that yells at you -- wouldn't you yell back or tell him to make his own damn dinner or whatever. I mean if he hits you -- a woman can pretty much hit him back. I realize they would never talk back to a headship or hit him bc that's not how they are raised and frankly they are financially dependent on the headship for a paycheck and a roof over their heads -- having no education or marketable skills and likely cannot fall back on family as the Kellers probably couldn't take her and her kids in even if they wanted to since they don't see all that financially comfortable. BUT in your heart of hearts -- could you possibly be scared of a man like that? I mean we're not talking 6 ft, 200 lb with a booming voice?!

[msblossom]

Nah, I believe I'd just poison his next meal.

If I didn't have any options I believe I'd look outside my faith to help me escape.

[Fuzzysox]

Priscilla hardly lives in the back hills here in Chicago. She could easily escape if she wanted to. I'm sure that there are plenty of kindhearted people that would take her in. 

Edited April 12, 2015 by Fuzzysox

[truelovekiss]

I remember once, Anna was talking about her marriage and how sometimes she would be frustrated with Josh if he didn't take out the trash or something. Then she said that she would remind herself how lucky she was to have a husband, because if she didn't, she would have to go to work AND take out the trash (the horror). The point I'm trying to make is, I think the teaching from Ma and Pa Keller was to be grateful that someone wants to be your husband and do whatever you can to please him. I'm not a huge fan of Smuggar, but Anna definitely lucked out. Not only does she have a husband receiving checks from TLC whose father just happens to own a bunch of houses, but he seems to genuinely love and care about her, and I truly believe he wants Anna to be happy. TFDW could not give less shits about Priscilla's happiness.

[maraleia]

Here is the Willis Clan's intro video from when they appeared on America's Got Talent last summer

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=7h8J48UXoBc

and

They made it to the quarterfinals but were knocked out of the competition at that level.

 

ETA The Duggars need to watch their backs. With this family and All That Jazz about trans teen Jazz Jennings, the network might be turning the corner away from the crazy and/or fundie families of the past.

[Mrsjumbo]

When was the last time we saw the Duggar kids perform? They may have to dust off those violins!

[GEML]

I don't think Priscilla is afraid of David. And Anna and Josh have as good of a relationship as I think you have in a Gothard type relationship. But I do think that in these messages they send out they do risk telling women who are not in good marriages, and many aren't, that it's about women's mistakes. And that's not right. I'd feel somewhat differently, as I said, if there were similar messages being sent about men making mistakes (it's not my belief structure, but it's at least more realistic) but there doesn't seem to be.

[kalamac]

Also plenty of people are abused and terrorized by people who are physically smaller than them. It often starts slowly with things they wouldn't recognize as abuse, until it reaches a point where they afraid to fight back or leave, because they honestly believe it will be a death sentence for them if they try. (Not saying that's what's going on here, but to say the Pris shouldn't be frightened of her creepy husband because of his size...well, it doesn't work that way.)

[DoctorWhovian]

There really is no need for another TV show about another big family, but at least this ones seems relatively normal.

[Literata]

Alyssa Bates had her baby.

http://www.batesfamilyblog.com/2015/04/allie-jane-is-here.html?m=1

[Darknight]

Here is the Willis Clan's intro video from when they appeared on America's Got Talent last summer

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=7h8J48UXoBc

and

They made it to the quarterfinals but were knocked out of the competition at that level.

ETA The Duggars need to watch their backs. With this family and All That Jazz about trans teen Jazz Jennings, the network might be turning the corner away from the crazy and/or fundie families of the past.

I remember them. They seem like a sweet family

There really is no need for another TV show about another big family, but at least this ones seems relatively normal.

Tlc is just off the chain with these shows. Now anyone can have their own show

[kalamac]

That oldest girl sounds really good, and I think has more personality than all the older Duggar girls combined.

[Fuzzysox]

Move over RickJamesBitch, Allie Jane Webster was just born yesterday. I'm betting she is a cutie! 

[zenme]

Jill would swallow her bonnet if Allie Jane was 1/4 in longer than Israel!