S02.E05: U.S. Territories

[Athena]

U.S. Territories: A set of Supreme Court decisions made over 100 years ago has left U.S. territories without meaningful representation. That’s weird, right?

Daylight Saving Time: Daylight saving time doesn’t actually benefit anyone. Strangely, it’s still a thing!

[Victor the Crab]

This is what I love about Ollie's show. When I heard him say that voting was his main topic this week, I assumed it was how certain states would try and make it difficult for certain people to vote. But then, he gives us something we haven't given thought of, which is people who live in the U.S. territories who can vote but who's voice has no real meaning. You payin' attention to that Obama? Think you can do something for the people living there?

 

I don't think Fanta should suffer any real consequences because of the so-called Nazi connections. They were created because Germany was waging war and resources were thrown the military's way, so they had to come up with something to keep their business going. Now Volkswagen, that was full blown Nazi! Hell, Adolf Fucking Hitler himself had a huge hand in creating the car that would become the Beetle when he gave instructions to Ferdinand Porsche on creating a car that was practical, dependable, and affordable for the average German family and that he would try and use to promote Aryan supremacy.

 

Anyway, when I think of Fanta, this is what I think of. A commercial from my youth in Canada:

 

 

Fucking cool!

[Irlandesa]

No Fanta shouldn't be blamed for its origins but not a good idea to celebrate Naziism. 

 

I loved the voting segment as well but I don't think there is the political will to get it changed.  I think it should be, though.  If for no other reason than way too many people don't know that there are 50 states.  At least if we added new states, they might have an excuse because it's a new thing.

[FozzyBear]

God I love this show! I can't tell you the number of reasonably educated people I know don't think people from Puerto Rico are citizens. Not only through ignorance of the law, but when you explain it to them they still don't believe you. I'm sure they would think the same thing about all US territories, if they were aware there are more U.S. territories than Puerto Rico.

Edited March 9, 2015 by FozzyBear

[attica]

In my Libra brain, I was trying to be generous and thinking maybe people were calling Sotomayor's parents immigrants because the annexation of PR was recent to their moving to NYC. But no. I looked it up and the US took over in 1898. So, seriously, fuck those 'news outlets.'

 

But as long as American Samoa can keep turning out NFL players, who cares if they can vote, amirite?

 

I got wheezy watching Jeff line dance.

 

As for DST, I am really fond of having a few hours of daylight after work for as long as I can here in my northern abode. Running errands in darkness is depressing for me. So if I get a vote, I'd promote switching permanently to DST.

Edited March 9, 2015 by attica

[iMonrey]

So . . . why is Daylight Saving Time still a thing?? They disproved every conceivable excuse for it, and it was even extended under the Bush administration. So, now I'm starting to get all tinfoil-hatty about it. Is it a big conspiracy by Big Energy? Because when you think about it, it should really be the opposite. When it's hot outside, you want the sun to go down earlier, not later. During DST, people are actually running the A/C more. So, is that the point? Is that why it was even extended by four weeks, to increase profits for oil and gas companies?

[Dandesun]

DST only seems to be an issue in the spring. I don't know of many people complaining in the fall when you turn the clocks back an hour and get to sleep in. In the spring... yeah, suddenly we have sunlight an hour later in the afternoon but when your alarm goes off you immediately think 'It's actually 5:30... this is bullshit!'

 

But I did ask people in my office this morning why we did it and they all said 'Well, when I was growing up I was told it was for the farmers!' and when I said it was the Germans, specifically Kaiser Wilhelm, trying to preserve energy during the war I got full on denials. "That's ridiculous. If the Germans came up with it, they just would have told everyone to turn their lights on an hour later and get up at this time instead of that time and they all would have done it."

 

I guess wartime German stereotypes remain.

 

And then when I wanted to show them the video they were all too busy talking about the 'iPad magician' so I ended up having to pull that up instead. The iPad magician is, by the way, German.

[ganesh]

When it's hot outside, you want the sun to go down earlier, not later.

 

OTOH, I'd say that it cools down later in the day, so if it's still light out till 8, 9 pm, then you can go out and do stuff. I prefer light at later times because I don't like taking my dog out at night when it's dark. Also, if you go out with friends for a drink after work, for example, you can sit outside and enjoy the late evening sunlight. 

 

Running errands in darkness is depressing for me. So if I get a vote, I'd promote switching permanently to DST.

 

That too. You get home from work, it's already dark and you just don't feel like going out. 

 

It always throws me off because I get up early, and before the clocks changed I was waking up when the sun shone through my window. Now, it's dark at that time, so I overslept because I thought it was earlier than it actually was. 

 

I thought that the territories actually have better benefits being territories then being states. 

[iMonrey]

 

OTOH, I'd say that it cools down later in the day, so if it's still light out till 8, 9 pm, then you can go out and do stuff.

 

That's my point though - in the dead of summer when it's 110 outside, you don't want it to cool down later, you want it to cool down earlier. Ostensibly, DST saves energy because you wait longer to turn on the lights. But as John pointed out, running the A/C sucks up massive amounts of energy, tons more than light bulbs. So why would you want it to stay hotter later, and keep the A/C running later? Hmmmm. Big Oil conspiracy.

[Wax Lion]

I remember a Rachel Maddow Show guest saying one reason we still have daylight savings is the retail industry since it makes people more likely you'll do more shopping if its still light out when the stores close.

[shok]

 

That's my point though - in the dead of summer when it's 110 outside, you don't want it to cool down later, you want it to cool down earlier.

 

There aren't that many places in all of the countries that adhere to DST where it's 110 late in the evening. For the vast majority of people, a lovely warm summer evening is welcomed.

[Jaded Sapphire]

I remember a Rachel Maddow Show guest saying one reason we still have daylight savings is the retail industry since it makes people more likely you'll do more shopping if its still light out when the stores close.

That was always my understanding of it. I happened to look it up a few years ago and apparently business do get an bump in revenue because of DST. That's probably a major reason it won't go away anytime soon, imagine all the major retailers throwing money around in congress to keep it as-is.

[charlieboo]

I think all high school history and civics classes should be taught by John Oliver. He takes obscure topics which you've never thought about and which sound blindingly dull and he makes them interesting and compelling.

Schools can offer extra credit for doing one of his hashtag projects. 

[ganesh]

I think his topics would be more suited for an AP class. So I guess Oklahoma wouldn't carry it. Thank you and good night. 

[Hanahope]

I agree that John Oliver's show should be almost required viewing for most high schoolers.  He has such great lessons and really brings to light obscure issues that are actually more important than you might think.  I hope the show lasts long enough for me to show my kids when they are old enough.

 

Loved the DST bit.  Seriously, pick a time frame and be done with it.  I swear every year I get sick at DST time and I blame DST.

[Eliza422]

I don't watch all the competition reality shows, but that kid from American Samoa (I think) who sang on America's Got Talent brought a tear to my eye! He was so good.

 

We suck as a country sometimes...well, a lot, really.

[charlieboo]

And he actually affects change:  http://www.usatoday.com/story/money/2015/03/10/moneymutual-payday-loans-montel-williams/24697095/

[dusang]

And he actually affects change:  http://www.usatoday.com/story/money/2015/03/10/moneymutual-payday-loans-montel-williams/24697095/

 

I feel like that headline should be "lender fronted by Montel Williams" not backed -- he's not the money, he's not the brains.

[iMonrey]

 

There aren't that many places in all of the countries that adhere to DST where it's 110 late in the evening. For the vast majority of people, a lovely warm summer evening is welcomed.

 

Maybe that's why Arizona doesn't observe DST. By the same token though, most of the midwest and south should opt out too. 

[Gulftastic]

I had no idea that people from Puerto Rico etc were considered US citizens. I blame being a Brit. Do they pay taxes towards the US, but can't vote? Cos I seem to remember that causing some problems a while ago.

 

The 'Daylight Savings Time' ( or 'British Summer Time' as we call it, and we did, after all, invent time...;) ) lie about it being for the farmers exists on our side of the pond too.

[biakbiak]

Do they pay taxes towards the US, but can't vote?

 

They don't pay federal income tax (unless they work for the US government) but they do pay things like payroll taxes, Social Security, etc.

[TV Anonymous]

I knew that Puerto Ricans are US citizens. However, I have no sympathy for them for not being represented and not getting the same rights and privileges as citizens of the States. That is the price they pay for being in their current status, Territory. If they want equal rights, have a referendum for statehood. As of now, Puerto Rico has more independence than a State since it is not a State.

Edited March 12, 2015 by TV Anonymous

[ganesh]

Yeah, that's what I was getting at before. Guam doesn't seem to be in the same boat as Puerto Rico, but if they really want to be states, why isn't their local governments pushing for it?

[Traveller519]

I am a DST fiend. I love having evening light over morning light. In fact, I'd be all for going to to DST full time.

 

This seems like a really weird situation for the Obama administration to fight the territories on, as they'd seems to be Democrat leaning. I get that if you're not a state you don't get senators. But if you're under federal rule, it would make sense that your vote for President counts. Even if they only got half electoral college representation (blech.) for the territories on the whole, that would be 3-4 votes, on par with DC.

 

Also, John didn't mention that while they have elected delegates in the House of Representatives, they're non voting.

[dcalley]

Also, John didn't mention that while they have elected delegates in the House of Representatives, they're non voting.

He did.

[Jamoche]

I've lived at both ends of the ridiculously wide Central time zone in Texas, and as far north as Buffalo, so to me the thing that has had the most effect on how much daylight you get is where you are, not what games we play with the clocks.

 

I also work flexible hours as a software engineer, so if I want more sunlight after work, I can just shift my hours. How about a push for more flexible hours for everyone? If you like getting up an hour earlier than everyone else, you can do it - just don't inflict it on all the night people. Having all those cars idling in rush hour for twice as long as they do at other times can't be good for the air quality and wastes fuel.

[Traveller519]

He did.

I stand corrected!

Caught up after a red-eye home last night when I couldn't fall asleep.

[rab01]

I agree that John Oliver's show should be almost required viewing for most high schoolers.  He has such great lessons and really brings to light obscure issues that are actually more important than you might think.  I hope the show lasts long enough for me to show my kids when they are old enough.

My kids are 11 and 13 so maybe I shouldn't let them watch the show because of all the cursing but they get a huge kick out of it and they totally get the substance behind it too.

[maraleia]

My kids are 11 and 13 so maybe I shouldn't let them watch the show because of all the cursing but they get a huge kick out of it and they totally get the substance behind it too.

They hear that language at school trust me. I was a teacher and I heard it all from the kids. If they're learning something and its fun for them to watch then I wouldn't worry.

[Mindymoo]

They hear that language at school trust me. I was a teacher and I heard it all from the kids. If they're learning something and its fun for them to watch then I wouldn't worry.

Yeah, I even went to a Catholic school from K-7, and I heard worse language than what John uses in middle school. John is tame compared to what comes out of kids' mouths.

[Irlandesa]

My kids are 11 and 13 so maybe I shouldn't let them watch the show because of all the cursing but they get a huge kick out of it and they totally get the substance behind it too.

I agree with others that language shouldn't be the issue but you still may want to pre-watch it before you show it to them.  They can probably handle the language but you may want to put off them seeing an old man penis until they're old enough to have one.

[Totale]

Why would they want an old man penis, he asked innocently ;).

[theatremouse]

That's my point though - in the dead of summer when it's 110 outside, you don't want it to cool down later, you want it to cool down earlier. Ostensibly, DST saves energy because you wait longer to turn on the lights. But as John pointed out, running the A/C sucks up massive amounts of energy, tons more than light bulbs. So why would you want it to stay hotter later, and keep the A/C running later? Hmmmm. Big Oil conspiracy.

I can only speak for myself, but in the summer in general, even if it's cooled down somewhat in the evening outside, it takes most of the day for my house to heat up when it's hot during the day. Opening windows in the evening doesn't make a dent. So regardless of the hour difference, I don't actually turn my AC on until night. If it's hot inside I can't sleep. But A: the inside of my house doesn't catch up to the hot day until 4pm and B: it's easier to tolerate the heat for some reason when I'm up and about and doing something and can be distracted from it, but trying to sleep hot? I can't do it.

I'm of the camp who thinks we should be on DST all the time, instead of keeping the switching, rather than never being on it. Especially if the farmer thing's been de-bunked, personally I think there is absolutely no good reason it should ever be dark at 4pm*. It's depressing. But the difference between light at 5am vs light at 6am? Doesn't bother me. Unless as a country we all shift when business generally starts, the later light is more useful than the early.

*I know. I know. Depending on your latitude some places in winter get dark at 2pm or have even less daylight. And I am very very sad for those people.

[biakbiak]

I'm of the camp who thinks we should be on DST all the time, instead of keeping the switching, rather than never being on it.

 

I don't understand, time is a manmade construct the only reason that such a thing as "DST" exists is because it denoates a period of time that we deviate from ST. If we never switched all time would be standard time. If at 3:00 am GMT on one day in March/April, 2015 it was decided that every country in the world sprang forward and we never changed it wouldn't be called DST, it would just be time.

Edited March 16, 2015 by biakbiak

[rab01]

They hear that language at school trust me. I was a teacher and I heard it all from the kids. If they're learning something and its fun for them to watch then I wouldn't worry.

Heh, I'm not worried that they'll learn any new language and I'm not bothered by cursing either. That was more of a general "parents get criticised for every choice they make" kind of comment ;)

[theatremouse]

I don't understand, time is a manmade construct the only reason that such a thing as "DST" exists is because it denoates a period of time that we deviate from ST. If we never switched all time would be standard time. If at 3:00 am GMT on one day in March/April, 2015 it was decided that every country in the world sprang forward and we never changed it wouldn't be called DST, it would just be time.

Yes, I agree. My point wasn't about what we call it, but rather that the arbitrary starting point of the hours that I thinks makes more sense, is the set we currently fall under during DST, rather than the set we currently use as "standard". IE if the government decided to abolish DST, I'd favor the scenario in which (the year said thing comes to pass) we never "fall back" come November, rather than just never "springing forward" ever again.

[Kel Varnsen]

I have been watching a bunch of John Oliver bits on youtube lately. The one on territories was interesting but he missed out the most fucked up thing about territories. I believe it is in the Northern Mariana islands at least that workers aren't subject to US Federal labour laws. So you can buy say a shirt in the US that says "Made in the USA" but it could be made in a place where they don't have to pay US minimum wage, and a bunch of other labour laws don't need to be met. 

[OneWhoLurks]

Quote

Six U.S. citizens living in Puerto Rico, Guam, and the U.S. Virgin Islands saw their hopes of being able to vote for President in November take a step backward as a federal court ruled on Tuesday that Congress can deny the right to vote for state residents who move to certain U.S. territories while protecting it for those who move to other territories or a foreign country.

Quote

Before reaching its decision, the court acknowledged (on pages 20-21) statements by Senator Elizabeth Warren at a Senate Hearing where she called the denial of voting rights to Americans in the territories “absurd” and noted how the “second class citizen” status has “real implications” in these American’s lives. As evidence of this impact, the court cited a PBS documentary highlighting the struggles of veterans in Guam that “asks if they have been forsaken by the country they swore to defend.” HBO comedian John Oliver’s powerful segment on the denial of voting rights in U.S. territories was also cited by the court as an example of the “popular criticism” these issues have received.

Territorial Voting Rights Lawsuit Faces Setback As Election Nears

[OneWhoLurks]

Quote

NEW YORK CITY (Press Release) — Plaintiffs from Guam, the U.S. Virgin Islands, and Puerto Rico are making an appeal to the U.S. Court of Appeals for the Seventh Circuit arguing that where you live shouldn’t impact your right to vote for President.

The Segovia v. Chicago Board of Elections Commissioners’ appeal is now receiving extra support after a new crowdfunding platform, CrowdJustice, selected the case as part of its United States launch.

CrowdJustice, founded in the United Kingdom in 2015, helps raise funds for individuals, communities and non-profits seeking justice in the legal system.

 

Quote

 

Last year, a federal district court in Illinois ruled for the first time that if you live in a U.S. territory voting is not a “fundamental right,” upholding federal and state laws that permit former residents of Illinois to continue voting for president by absentee ballot if they move to U.S. territories like the Northern Mariana Islands or American Samoa (or a foreign country), but not if they move to Guam, the U.S. Virgin Islands, or Puerto Rico.

Sen. Elizabeth Warren criticized this discriminatory treatment during a Senate hearing last year. The issue of territorial voting rights has also been featured in a powerful segment by HBO comedian John Oliver. If successful, the appeal could expand voting rights in U.S. territories, and would create a circuit split that could bring these important issues to the U.S. Supreme Court.

The veterans involved in the case are among the over 120,000 U.S. military veterans currently living in U.S. territories. “The right to vote is a core tenet of democracy,” said Julia Salasky, CEO of CrowdJustice. “Segovia is a fascinating case that brings up issues that many Americans may not be aware of — we are thrilled that We the People Project is part of our U.S. launch.”

 

Veterans in US territories crowdfunding legal case for voting rights