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Michelle and JimBob aka J'Chelle and Boob

OSM Mom

By OSM Mom
in Counting On

cm-soupsipper
Message added by cm-soupsipper,

Closure Notice: This Thread is now closed due to the name (and much of the posting within it). Please be mindful going forward by naming topics in a way that invites a healthy community conversation. If you name something for a cheap laugh, this thread may be closed later because it encourages discrimination and harm. 

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doodlebug
doodlebug

I'm from a fairly big city and raised mostly in town though also the suburbs.  I've had the same experience.  I attend a Catholic church and am active in several volunteer things there including medic

Aja
Aja

Once again, Michelle, I'm going to have to bum you out with a big old steaming pile of fact: I was born a girl, I'm glad to be a girl, I'm very feminine looking, I love being feminine looking...AND I'

doodlebug
doodlebug

Happens all the time.  Had someone tell us they couldn't pay the bill for prenatal care because they were building a new house and couldn't spare the money.  Another had just bought a new car.  BTW, i

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Churchhoney

Churchhoney

That "interview" was basically a To-Do list for religious zealot families that find they have a twisted pervert in their midst: 

1. Minimize, minimize, minimize.

2. Excuse, excuse, excuse.

3. Lie, lie, lie.

4. Deflect, deflect, deflect. 

 

 

 

5. And switch your allegiance to situational ethics.

 

Tsk tsk. I'm sure there's stuff in the Wisdom Booklets about not doing that.

  • Love 3
DoctorWhovian

DoctorWhovian

I know it's irrational, but I hate Michelle's hair so much. Michelle and I are about the same age and I lived through terrible 80's hair 30 years ago. Why anyone would want to revisit the massive bangs + crunchy curls is beyond me. It probably takes her back to her glory days of being a cheerleader and defrauding the neighborhood with her bikini. I don't think she has experienced any personal growth since then.

 

it's hardly a revisit when she never left! It's as if her and Jim Bob stopped moving with time after marriage. His hair, her hair, his wanting puffy wedding sleeves, the way the kids were dressed until they were old enough to choose otherwise... 

  • Love 3
mbutterfly

mbutterfly

Given that they have public confession at church, and we now know what they have confessed, and it's been speculated that a church member might be the one who sent the email to Oprah, I think we finally have the answer as to why the Church of JimBob is invitation only. Someone fooled him once, so to speak, and shame on him, but fool him twice? Not going to happen.

So many odd pieces are falling together.

  • Love 3
floridamom

floridamom

Ok, two things bug me about these poor excuses for parents....(well, there are MANY more, but here are two that jump out at me)..

First of all, how can this family continually say over the years that they are a "unit" and "all for one and one for all", yet Jim Bob states why should the whole family be punished for Josh's "mistake"? That is a direct contradiction of what they have said they stand for.

Secondly, as a MOTHER myself, MICHELE, I'm looking at you, what they heck were you two doing that you didn't hear or notice one of your children getting up out of bed at night, walking around, and going in the girls' bedroom? You were what, 15 people, is a 3 bedroom 2 bath cracker box of a house? You were all crammed together as it was and yet, you didn't hear or notice anything? One thing that becomes natural to a woman after she becomes a mother is that you don't EVER sleep like you used to before you had children in the house...one ear is always listening for your children or babies who may need you in the night...Proof more that Michelle didn't and doesn't give a damn for any of her children; the older girls raised their younger siblings...you, Michelle, IMO, are a poor excuse for a mother and for an adult woman of this day and age.

  • Love 10
mynextmistake

mynextmistake

Guys, someone on Jezebel noticed that Michelle's face is a perfect hybrid of Elaine and Kramer, and now I will never be able to un-see it. It's uncanny!

 

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I'm sorry, but OMG WHAT IS WRONG WITH HER EYES?!? She looks like someone replaced her Quaaludes with Vivarin and she took three times her normal dose!

  • Love 1
springtime

springtime

 

Secondly, as a MOTHER myself, MICHELE, I'm looking at you, what they heck were you two doing that you didn't hear or notice one of your children getting up out of bed at night, walking around, and going in the girls' bedroom? You were what, 15 people, is a 3 bedroom 2 bath cracker box of a house? You were all crammed together as it was and yet, you didn't hear or notice anything? One thing that becomes natural to a woman after she becomes a mother is that you don't EVER sleep like you used to before you had children in the house...one ear is always listening for your children or babies who may need you in the night...Proof more that Michelle didn't and doesn't give a damn for any of her children; the older girls raised their younger siblings...you, Michelle, IMO, are a poor excuse for a mother and for an adult woman of this day and age.

A therapist would be helpful to Michelle- She has been through a lot of troubling events over the years and it quite emotional!

Absolom

Absolom

One thing that bothers me every time Michelle says it is about Josh having a soft heart and they knew he wasn't beyond help because he cried.  They seemed to take that as a sign that he was repentant and would change.  I've recently been through the same thing with a friend of mine and her son.  He began having behavior and legal issues and he would do the same thing of cry and act repentant.  A few days or weeks later, there would be another incident, rinse and repeat.  It isn't at all unusual for teens to know which parental chains to pull.  Friend's son did get caught up in the juvenile justice system and was put in a program that has seemed to get his attention and help him.  

  • Love 10
Foghorn Leghorn

Foghorn Leghorn

(edited)

Josh's tears were also a sign of deeper emotional issues which never got fixed.  So MK asks them did they not worry about him when he came back, Jim Bob says "oh no, Josh was a changed man!"  Michelle then adds but we added safeguards just to be sure he was never alone with any girls ever again.  

 

ETA:  I am being sarcastic!  LOL 

Edited by Foghorn Leghorn
  • Love 3
shipmate

shipmate

I thought it very telling that when MK asked the couple what they think the future plans are for the Duggars, and Jimbo went right into, "We don't think it's fair that the other kids should have to suffer for what one did."  

 

Sure - when it comes to the SHOW they think this.  But in real life their actions showed, it is "all the other kids must suffer for what one did."

  • Love 6
JoanArc

JoanArc

Sure - when it comes to the SHOW they think this.  But in real life their actions showed, it is "all the other kids must suffer for what one did."

Honestly, I'd like to hear from the boys. They weren't victims, but were treated like potential perps. I mean, having to discuss all of your sexual thoughts with your parents....gross and violating.

  • Love 9
bluebonnet

bluebonnet

I'm curious what the experts have to say about how this message becomes conceptualized by children.  They are taught that having as many children as possible brings one closer to god while also made to feel like potential predators who can not control their own sexual actions and made to feel that even thinking of sex is shameful enough to confess.  I know Jim Bob and Michelle say that intimacy is good in a marriage but they've also spent at least a dozen years teaching their children that it's all so shameful and that when they get married, they must do this shameful terrible thing over and over again in order to produce many children.

 

It's just...so illogical.  

  • Love 7
Jellybeans

Jellybeans

Okay, breaking into the current stream of consciousness to say that I finally youtubed the infamous mini-golf moment (I stopped watching the show a couple of years ago). Dear god, why? Jim Bob needs a lobotomy and a vasectomy, in that order.

and they didn't think this kind of thing affected Josh and their kids? This was just what was shown on TV. I wish the parents could be charged for lewd acts in front of minor children.

  • Love 5
Darknight

Darknight

Josh's tears were also a sign of deeper emotional issues which never got fixed. So MK asks them did they not worry about him when he came back, Jim Bob says "oh no, Josh was a changed man!" Michelle then adds but we added safeguards just to be sure he was never alone with any girls ever again.

If he was a changed man why were there safe guards?

  • Love 4
Churchhoney

Churchhoney

Okay, breaking into the current stream of consciousness to say that I finally youtubed the infamous mini-golf moment (I stopped watching the show a couple of years ago). Dear god, why? Jim Bob needs a lobotomy and a vasectomy, in that order.

 

Seriously. We sort of laugh about this, albeit nervously, or with head shaking or low-level disgust. But I think that's probably an inappropriate reaction based on our sort of seeing them as sit-com characters because they are, in a way, on a sitcom. (I was noticing one day how they describe their episodes in promotional listings on websites and such, and they're described with little plot and dilemmas, just like sitcoms.)

 

 

But when you truly think of an adult man doing what he did there, I don't see how you can avoid the conclusion that there is something seriously wrong with this guy. ... And then when you think that not only is he a grown, real-life man but a man who has for years set himself up as a sterling example of character, moral probity, ideal Christian faith and responsible fatherhood -- both for his own kids and for the whole rest of the world -- it's impossible to get your head around it. Well, impossible to get my head about it, anyway. Maybe I'm overreacting? But I don't think so. I can't imagine anybody I know doing that in those circumstances. And he was apparently stone cold sober.

One thing that bothers me every time Michelle says it is about Josh having a soft heart and they knew he wasn't beyond help because he cried.  They seemed to take that as a sign that he was repentant and would change.  I've recently been through the same thing with a friend of mine and her son.  He began having behavior and legal issues and he would do the same thing of cry and act repentant.  A few days or weeks later, there would be another incident, rinse and repeat.  It isn't at all unusual for teens to know which parental chains to pull.  Friend's son did get caught up in the juvenile justice system and was put in a program that has seemed to get his attention and help him.  

 

Exactly.

 

And what he did could either have been an act -- and a big red flag for needing help -- or genuine -- also a big red flag for needing help.

 

And they decided -- after a lengthy delay -- that a stint of hanging drywall would fix him. And, when he came back, believed that it had and put him on television.

 

It's astonishing.

  • Love 10
Mrs. P.

Mrs. P.

Has anyone ever wondered if Michelle would have been set straight about birth control would she have had 19 kids? She started out taking it when she first got married and was scared away from it---I don't remember why. Help.

IIRC, Michelle had a miscarriage early in the marriage and she And Jim Bob somehow attributed that to her earlier use of birth control pills. They then decided that birth control must be evil and did away with all forms of it.

  • Love 1
CarolMK

CarolMK

So, does anyone want to venture a guess about what's next for these two? Will Michelle try to do a radio show like Dr. Laura where she's preaching, teaching and nagging? (Laura's tagline) Will Jim Bob try to start an online ministry? Nothing would surprise me anymore, but I think however they can, Michelle and Jim Bob Duggar are determined to stay in the spotlight. They're probably writing their third book about this past experience right about now. 

  • Love 2
Julia

Julia

(edited)

It was her DR. who said the pill caused the miscarriage.

And how do we know that? Because it's a common urban legend among people opposed to birth control, but it's not really backed up by scientific evidence, and it seems odd that a doctor would claim to be able to tell that it wasn't simply one of the twenty percent of known pregnancies which miscarry in the first trimester because the fetus isn't viable.

I suppose it's possible that Michelle's doctor had an agenda (although it seems unlikely he would have prescribed the pill to begin with if that was the case). I think it's also possible the Duggars are lying about it to scare women out of using birth control.

Edited by Julia
  • Love 7
mynextmistake

mynextmistake

And how do we know that? Because it's a common urban legend among people opposed to birth control, but it's not really backed up by scientific evidence, and it seems odd that a doctor would claim to be able to tell that it wasn't simply one of the twenty percent of known pregnancies which miscarry in the first trimester because the fetus isn't viable.

I suppose it's possible that Michelle's doctor had an agenda (although it seems unlikely he would have prescribed the pill to begin with if that was the case). I think it's also possible the Duggars are lying about it to scare women out of using birth control.

Yeah, this. It's almost impossible to tell most of the time what has caused a miscarriage. My guess would be an already angsty Jim Bob or Michelle asked the doctor if it could have been the pill and s/he said something about not being able to totally rule that out and they seized on it and were like "OMG BIRTH CONTROL KILLS BABIES!!!!!!"

  • Love 2
Albanyguy

Albanyguy

(edited)

And how do we know that? Because it's a common urban legend among people opposed to birth control, but it's not really backed up by scientific evidence, and it seems odd that a doctor would claim to be able to tell that it wasn't simply one of the twenty percent of known pregnancies which miscarry in the first trimester because the fetus isn't viable.

I suppose it's possible that Michelle's doctor had an agenda (although it seems unlikely he would have prescribed the pill to begin with if that was the case). I think it's also possible the Duggars are lying about it to scare women out of using birth control.

 

 

It's so hard to separate fact from fiction with the Duggars, but it's my understanding that the doctor who told them that their miscarriage was caused by birth control pills was the one who first introduced them to Gothardism. If that's true, then it was probably a different doctor who first prescribed the pills. Then, after the miscarriage, they fell afoul of this particular Gothardite doctor who saw a troubled couple who already had a fundamentalist background and who were ripe for the plucking.

Edited by Albanyguy
  • Love 1
Seashell Lover

Seashell Lover

And how do we know that? Because it's a common urban legend among people opposed to birth control, but it's not really backed up by scientific evidence, and it seems odd that a doctor would claim to be able to tell that it wasn't simply one of the twenty percent of known pregnancies which miscarry in the first trimester because the fetus isn't viable.

I suppose it's possible that Michelle's doctor had an agenda (although it seems unlikely he would have prescribed the pill to begin with if that was the case). I think it's also possible the Duggars are lying about it to scare women out of using birth control.

 

 

Yeah, this. It's almost impossible to tell most of the time what has caused a miscarriage. My guess would be an already angsty Jim Bob or Michelle asked the doctor if it could have been the pill and s/he said something about not being able to totally rule that out and they seized on it and were like "OMG BIRTH CONTROL KILLS BABIES!!!!!!"

http://www.inquisitr.com/1531930/jim-bob-duggar-causes-controversy-by-blaming-birth-control-for-michelles-miscarriage/

This is an interview where he said the Christian DR. told him.

  • Love 1
Seashell Lover

Seashell Lover

http://hollywoodlife.com/2014/10/15/jim-bob-duggar-birth-control-miscarriage-19-kids-and-counting/

Here is a better article where he said the DR. confirmed that the pill caused the miscarriage and also causes abortions.


I'm not doubting that the Duggars said that, just doubting that it happened as they said it did.

http://hollywoodlife.com/2014/10/15/jim-bob-duggar-birth-control-miscarriage-19-kids-and-counting/

Check out this link as he says it here.

  • Love 1
Julia

Julia

(edited)

http://hollywoodlife.com/2014/10/15/jim-bob-duggar-birth-control-miscarriage-19-kids-and-counting/

Here is a better article where he said the DR. confirmed that the pill caused the miscarriage and also causes abortions.

http://hollywoodlife.com/2014/10/15/jim-bob-duggar-birth-control-miscarriage-19-kids-and-counting/

Check out this link as he says it here.

I'm truly not doubting that he said it. I'm simply skeptical that it happened the way he described it, since what he/the doctor is saying within the story is a) a popular myth propagated by people who are trying to convince women not to use birth control, b) not medically accurate in general, and c) not the place a responsible doctor would go when one in every five known pregnancies (and by some estimate as much as one in three overall) ends in miscarriage for no known reason.

Someone in that story is lying. It's possible it was the doctor - I wouldn't put it past Jim Bob to shuffle Michelle off to a doctor within their community who would tell her the miscarriage was her fault to keep her from trying to control her uterus in future - but it seems equally likely that Jim Bob is at the very least embellishing the story a lot.

Edited by Julia
  • Love 6
bluebonnet

bluebonnet

I wouldn't be surprised if the doctor used the term "spontaneous abortion" to describe miscarriage and Jim Bob and Michelle ran with it.  As for whether or not a doctor gave inaccurate medical info regarding birth control and pregnancy, I think it's possible.  Even doctors who do not have specific agendas- like religious affiliations that create and inherent bias in their medical practice - can be required by law to give incorrect, false, harmful medical advice.  Abortion doctors is a really good example, with many states mandating things they have to say even when it's inaccurate (like saying that abortion can be reversed or that early term abortion is more dangerous than carrying a child to term).  People, including doctors, can have very heightened emotions about things that happened in the uterus and can bias themselves.  Or they can just be doctors that knowingly give false data.  Dr. Oz does this every afternoon. 

  • Love 7
CofCinci

CofCinci

I've suffered miscarriages(clinical/billing term: spontaneous abortions) and never once had a doctor be able to tell me "why" it happened. I think it's outside their scope of practice to speculate on why the patient miscarriaged. I have a hard time believing a physician would connect her miscarriage to birth control pills.

  • Love 10
Oldernowiser

Oldernowiser

Doctors are human and it may just be that he was dealing with a very sad and emotional young couple who were throwing out various "sin" reasons God might have done this to them. I can see a doctor saying, "we really don't know why this happens...some say exercise, use of hormones, stress, bla bla bla" and the D's latching on to that one thing.

This would have been what, 28 years ago? Who knows what the prevailing theories might have been, particularly in what had to be a low-cost health care clinic in Arkansas?

Personally, I wouldn't be at all surprised if they made it up and then convinced themselves of its validity over a couple of decades. They've mentally whitewashed worse, obviously.

  • Love 5
mbutterfly

mbutterfly

I've suffered miscarriages(clinical/billing term: spontaneous abortions) and never once had a doctor be able to tell me "why" it happened. I think it's outside their scope of practice to speculate on why the patient miscarriaged. I have a hard time believing a physician would connect her miscarriage to birth control pills.

Me too -- three of them. I hadn't take BC meds because were were actively trying. That said, my obstetrician had no answer at all when I asked (especially after #2 and #3). 

  • Love 2
GEML

GEML

Let's face it, on the subject of miscarriage, or women's health in any way, people do and say and believe the strangest things. (I've had a miscarriage too, and couldn't believe some of the things people said.) It's become a very polarizing subject. And yes, some of the people saying these things are also people with the letters MD after their name. I actually don't doubt the story. I just doubt that they were surprised to learn this. I think they deliberately sought out such a doctor in the first place. It's not that hard to do once your entered the Fundy network.

  • Love 1
truthtalk2014

truthtalk2014

(edited)

That "interview" was basically a To-Do list for religious zealot families that find they have a twisted pervert in their midst: 

1. Minimize, minimize, minimize.

2. Excuse, excuse, excuse.

3. Lie, lie, lie.

4. Deflect, deflect, deflect. 

 

No surprise, really. 

We know the Duggars don't associate with sinning heathens in the regular world.  So for both Boob and Jessa to talk about all the other families out there experiencing incest (and worse and then the 2/3 comment) - it just leads me to believe that they need to reconsider the people they are hanging with.  Sounds like a den of iniquity.

A pot calling the kettle black about these girls being outed (speaking of Boob and MEchelle) by a tabloid.  

 

Didn't they admit to taking Josh in front of the church to admit his sins and then the girls to forgive him?  How is that not openly outing them by the parents?

Edited by truthtalk2014
  • Love 7
Fuzzysox

Fuzzysox

(edited)

We know the Duggars don't associate with sinning heathens in the regular world.  So for both Boob and Jessa to talk about all the other families out there experiencing incest (and worse and then the 2/3 comment) - it just leads me to believe that they need to reconsider the people they are hanging with.  Sounds like a den of iniquity.

A pot calling the kettle black about these girls being outed (speaking of Boob and MEchelle) by a tabloid.  

 

Didn't they admit to taking Josh in front of the church to admit his sins and then the girls to forgive him?  How is that not openly outing them by the parents?

If they confessed in church not one person reported the situation to DCFS?? I'm not believing shit from these people.

Edited by Fuzzysox
  • Love 8
bluebonnet

bluebonnet

If they confess in church not one person reported the situation to DCFS?? I'm not believing shit from these people.

This seems to be corroborated by "Alice", some long-lost internet person who was pretty accurate with the claims she made.  It's also supported by their belief system, where they confess all this stuff to parents and church.  But it's not a sort of church that the average person would understand, even the religious.  Think of this all as being as foreign to us as sharia law would be for most people.   Because that's basically what this lifestyle is.  

  • Love 4
Darknight

Darknight

I think Jimbob is bad with money. Their bank account probably doesn't have much in it. He grew up poor and never had these things like he has now. That's why so many lotto winners go broke in a few years. If JB can spend 250k on a failed campaign while his family of 16 is living in a small ass house then I doubt he would have any common sense about money now

  • Love 5
leighdear

leighdear

(edited)

If they confess in church not one person reported the situation to DCFS?? I'm not believing shit from these people.

Legitimate clergy members are usually mandated reporters.  But basement/garage/storage room "churches" with "clergy" that are "ordained" by whatever means these perverted trolls dreamed up are obviously exempt.  Idiots.

 

People keep trying to apply conventional wisdom, morality and intelligence to these individuals.  That's like saying 22+14=Tangerines.  None of it will ever make sense to outsiders. 

Edited by leighdear
  • Love 16
charmed1

charmed1

So, does anyone want to venture a guess about what's next for these two? Will Michelle try to do a radio show like Dr. Laura where she's preaching, teaching and nagging? (Laura's tagline) Will Jim Bob try to start an online ministry? Nothing would surprise me anymore, but I think however they can, Michelle and Jim Bob Duggar are determined to stay in the spotlight. They're probably writing their third book about this past experience right about now.

I'm wondering if in the interest of saving the show, JB and Michelle will try to loosen the reigns on some of the kids. Maybe allowing one of the younger boys to join some church baseball team or letting Jinger and Joy audit a sewing class at the local college or something.
  • Love 1
Sew Sumi

Sew Sumi

Doctors are human and it may just be that he was dealing with a very sad and emotional young couple who were throwing out various "sin" reasons God might have done this to them. I can see a doctor saying, "we really don't know why this happens...some say exercise, use of hormones, stress, bla bla bla" and the D's latching on to that one thing.

This would have been what, 28 years ago? Who knows what the prevailing theories might have been, particularly in what had to be a low-cost health care clinic in Arkansas?

Personally, I wouldn't be at all surprised if they made it up and then convinced themselves of its validity over a couple of decades. They've mentally whitewashed worse, obviously.

This was Dr. Wheat, who wrote the infamous Gothardite sex books that Josh got for his honeymoon. If he was at some rinky dink clinic, maybe it's the only place he could practice while espousing the garbage he fed the Duggars, who were apparently ripe for the picking. It's pretty much acknowledged now that this meeting is what sent them over the edge into fundamentalism. 

  • Love 2
GEML

GEML

But I call BS on that was what "sent them over the edge" on Fundamentalism. The pictures of the family itself tell a different story. We have pictures of the first set of twins that look reasonably normal. They might have decided to stop using birth control and started practicing a more quiverful ideology, but that's actually a varied group. I don't think they were fully Gothard until a few years later.

But it makes a nice narrative that fits into their pro-life message. That most people become Fundy more like a boiling pot where the water turns up slowly isn't quite as compelling.

  • Love 2
Sew Sumi

Sew Sumi

Well, they HAVE confirmed that this was made them go quiverfull, if they are not calling it exactly that. We do know that this is when they eschewed all birth control. It may have taken them a little longer to get rid of some of the "regular" trappings of life like Christmas trees, but they were full-on Gothard well before Josh went to school (they just had not been approved for ATI yet when it was time for him to start kindergarten). So yeah, I posit that the meeting with Dr. Wheat is what sent them down that rabbit hole. Let's face it, after the miscarriage, they had a kid (or two) a year for about 12 years straight after that. And they just got kookier and kookier as time went on; it wasn't a full-blast change from day one, but the belief was still there, even if the trappings of secular life still seemed to hang around for a while longer. It seems like they gradually phased some stuff out while adding in the Gothardite beliefs. 

 

I hope that makes some sense. It's like now when they're seemingly trying to distance themselves from Gothard (despite still speaking at the conferences). Their clothes have gone in the other direction, but it's pretty clear that nothing in their belief system has changed. It's just the packaging. 

  • Love 6
cm-soupsipper
Message added by cm-soupsipper,

Closure Notice: This Thread is now closed due to the name (and much of the posting within it). Please be mindful going forward by naming topics in a way that invites a healthy community conversation. If you name something for a cheap laugh, this thread may be closed later because it encourages discrimination and harm. 

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