Jump to content

Type keyword(s) to search

Michelle and JimBob aka J'Chelle and Boob

OSM Mom

By OSM Mom
in Counting On

cm-soupsipper
Message added by cm-soupsipper,

Closure Notice: This Thread is now closed due to the name (and much of the posting within it). Please be mindful going forward by naming topics in a way that invites a healthy community conversation. If you name something for a cheap laugh, this thread may be closed later because it encourages discrimination and harm. 

Recommended Posts

Minivanessa

Minivanessa

Is it any wonder that JB went ballistic when Jill and Derick started pushing for not only the contract documents with TLC but the Mad Family Inc. corporate records, including board of directors' meeting minutes? 

I'm not saying he broke any laws, but it appears the money and tax filings went something like this:

  • TLC paid Mad Family, Inc. fees for the show
  • Mad Family Inc. reported that it paid specific amounts to each member of the Duggar family, including the kids
  • JB's CPA filed tax returns for each kid stating as income the amount of income that Mad Family had paid the kid.
  • Except - the kid hadn't actually received any of that money.

Something we don't know: if taxes were due on a kid's reported income per their Form 1040, was it paid? I think it must have been. You don't file a return with the IRS showing income and then fail to pay the tax due on that income. I assume JB must have paid those taxes, probably from Mad Family Inc.'s funds. 

Another thing we don't know: how the income was reported. Earned income, which would trigger FICA taxes? Other income which might not trigger FICA? 

Were the kids "employees" of Mad Family, Inc.? Or independent contractors?

I mean, TBH I know JB has pulled a lot of fancy financial maneuvers, and I don't give f*ck about the details. But I'm finding it darkly amusing that Mr. Bigshot in IBLP, a follower of Bill Gothard whose mantra was "children are a blessing," probably treated his children as independent contractors.

  • Like 24
  • Replies 12.1k
  • Created
  • Last Reply

Top Posters In This Topic

Popular Days

Top Posters In This Topic

Popular Days

Popular Posts

doodlebug
doodlebug

I'm from a fairly big city and raised mostly in town though also the suburbs.  I've had the same experience.  I attend a Catholic church and am active in several volunteer things there including medic

Aja
Aja

Once again, Michelle, I'm going to have to bum you out with a big old steaming pile of fact: I was born a girl, I'm glad to be a girl, I'm very feminine looking, I love being feminine looking...AND I'

doodlebug
doodlebug

Happens all the time.  Had someone tell us they couldn't pay the bill for prenatal care because they were building a new house and couldn't spare the money.  Another had just bought a new car.  BTW, i

Posted Images

Natalie68

Natalie68

On 9/12/2023 at 12:26 PM, Salacious Kitty said:

AFAIK, he was a buddy of JB's. I guess JB felt the guy would give FF a stern IBLP talking to. Coming from someone not directly involved with their insular church might have more of an impact than being talked to by Jim Holt. 

Of course, that guy had his own dirty secrets. 

Wonder if JB and this cop have some things in common.  I have never believed Josh was born a sick mofo.

  • Like 3
  • Useful 1
Natalie68

Natalie68

4 hours ago, Jeeves said:

I'm putting this here because it's about JB in general, not limited to Jill. We know that he did Jill a bad turn re taxes and money, and I think he did it to all the kids, so it's more about him than about Jill. The deets about Jill are discussed in the Jill/Derick topic.

I have now found a few clues in Jill's book, that support my belief that JB pulled the same tax trick on all the kids as he did with Jill, i.e., through the CPA, filing income tax returns showing the individual had received $X income, which was never actually paid to that person.

After much dispute and unpleasantness from JB, Jill and Derick finally got a copy of the contract documents that she had signed the day before her wedding. She said this, mentioning what the "Compensation" section of the contract contained:

Also, she quoted JB's nasty itemization of what he'd spent on Jill, that he sent them when they were pushing to get copies of the contract and other relevant documents. I found it so distasteful that I skimmed it. But I read it again. Someone has posted a screenshot of it, either in the Jill/Derick topic or the TLC/media one, I don't remember, sorry.

Before he lays out the numbers, JB says:

He's such an arse. I don't care how long and loud he hollers "Jesus!!" He truly worships money and power.

So basically charging all the kids for all the expenses to raise them from birth to whenever the contract says so.  I am surprised any charges for the kids being birthed weren't tagged on.

  • Like 8
MaryAnneSpier

MaryAnneSpier

Back when Homeland Security went to investigate a Duggar lot, for what we all later learned was due to Josh's CSAM, I assumed the government was there for financial fraud investigations. I've been waiting for news to come out that JB is in trouble for some shady financial doings that to the outside seemed rather sketchy but not out-and-out illegal. Now with Jill's book coming out and making some of the financial stuff public (again, it doesn't seem to be fully illegal...)I wonder if, in a couple of years, he will be prosecuted.

  • Like 15
  • Applause 1
dariafan

dariafan

8 hours ago, Jeeves said:

I'm putting this here because it's about JB in general, not limited to Jill. We know that he did Jill a bad turn re taxes and money, and I think he did it to all the kids, so it's more about him than about Jill. The deets about Jill are discussed in the Jill/Derick topic.

I have now found a few clues in Jill's book, that support my belief that JB pulled the same tax trick on all the kids as he did with Jill, i.e., through the CPA, filing income tax returns showing the individual had received $X income, which was never actually paid to that person.

After much dispute and unpleasantness from JB, Jill and Derick finally got a copy of the contract documents that she had signed the day before her wedding. She said this, mentioning what the "Compensation" section of the contract contained:

Also, she quoted JB's nasty itemization of what he'd spent on Jill, that he sent them when they were pushing to get copies of the contract and other relevant documents. I found it so distasteful that I skimmed it. But I read it again. Someone has posted a screenshot of it, either in the Jill/Derick topic or the TLC/media one, I don't remember, sorry.

Before he lays out the numbers, JB says:

He's such an arse. I don't care how long and loud he hollers "Jesus!!" He truly worships money and power.

That is the same excuse Hugh Hefner used when girls next door started filming.  That they were paid in room and board.

  • Like 3
  • Mind Blown 1
  • Sad 1
  • Useful 1
Tdoc72

Tdoc72

2 hours ago, Heathen said:

I wonder what prompted that turnabout. 

 My guess was that maybe it’s easier for the grandparents to care for him now that’s he’s a little older and would need a different level of care. But who really knows?  I hope he’s happy though and doesn’t miss his similarly aged cousins ( or however they’re related) too much. 

  • Like 12
  • Popular Post
Panopticon

Panopticon

  • Popular Post

One of the rare nice things I have to say about JB and Michelle is that they really treated Tyler as another sibling for their kids. Granted I think the way they treat their bio kids suck, but Tyler always looked quite happy to be there. I hope yet another change in family situation isn’t too hard on him. 

  • Like 25
  • Sad 1
  • Popular Post
Minivanessa

Minivanessa

  • Popular Post

  

15 hours ago, Natalie68 said:

So basically charging all the kids for all the expenses to raise them from birth to whenever the contract says so.  I am surprised any charges for the kids being birthed weren't tagged on.

No kidding!

I do not believe JB has actually invoiced his kids for their care and feeding. He was furious - and I think scared sh*tless - by Jill and Derick insisting on getting copies of the TLC contract and the Mad Family Inc. corporate documents (Jill was a shareholder). In his rage and fear he came up with that stupid "itemized statement" and fired it at her.

It was a d*ck move. And a stupid one. Because now there will be a public memory of him as the guy who billed his kids for their upbringing. Not exactly accurate, but I'm not breaking my heart over any unfairness to him if that does stick to his public persona. 

In his reaction to Jill and Derick challenging his authority, he also enlisted several of his other kids to pile on the Dillards. They sent voicemails and texts "all day long, each one pleading with us to get this resolved." All that was needed was for JB to hand over the documents so "resolving" it was in his hands, not the Dillards'. When the phone onslaught didn't work some of them started visiting - day and night. Jill was willing to sit and hear them out, but when they started coming over and wanting to stay up till midnight talking, when Derick had law school exams, the next day, she "finally told them no." And got pushback! They said "this is way more important than law school!" Oy.

She said that one of the sibs did tell her what was going on. 

Quote

"Pops is telling everyone that if we don’t stand against you both on this, then we’re standing against him. He said none of us can be neutral here, and that this affects all of us. He says we might all be sued as a result of what you’re doing.”

When my sibling left, I cried. It was one thing for Pops to be angry at Derick and me, but how could he justify bringing his other children into it like this? How could he mislead them into thinking they might be sued, when he knew full well it was the Mad Family Inc. corporation we were dealing with, not our siblings? It made me sad for him. It made me scared for them.

          -- Duggar, Jill. Counting the Cost (pp. 221-222). Gallery Books. Kindle Edition. 

JB was also softening up the other sibs. From early 2017, JB had been paying "small, non-negotiable amounts" to the siblings and spouses who were filming. It seemed to Jill that he had brainwashed them into thinking they weren't owed anything and that "the $80,000 payment had been super generous." There were strings attached to those payments, of course - including piling on Jill and Derick. And I'm sure he was keeping the sibs in the dark about those tax returns. Jill says the sibs were "still so terrified of stirring up dissension among the brethren that they went along with most everything."  BTW she never identified any of the sibs involved, not even by gender. 

I can see JB being sh*t scared of his financial maneuverings being exposed. He could have been walking a line just on the right side of the tax laws, and I'm sure that any income taxes due on the "income" shown on his kids' tax returns were paid. Now, the fact that the kids weren't actually paid that "income" is a different matter. I think that in his own head, he believed all that money was his to control and by setting aside certain sums for his kids as a future inheritance (when he and Michelle died) or an "investment" he was managing, he was just being the headship. Or whatever. He invested the money in real estate and other businesses, and seems to have done pretty well. But the money he was using was earned by his entire family being at the beck and call of a TLC crew several weeks a year, from toddlerhood well into their 20's. And none of them saw a dime to call their own.

Since reading the book I've wondered if JB could have avoided a big blowup with Jill and Derick if he hadn't been so all-out arrogant and controlling from the start. What if he'd handed them the contract when they first asked, I think back in 2015 when the question of reimbursement for Izzy's birth costs came up? What if he'd disclosed how he'd handled the money for the kids? I think he might have avoided total war. Now, I don't think the fiddling with Jill's tax returns would have gone down well with Derick even then. But Jill was still deep into her Duggar/IBLP conditioning; she would have been terrified of leaving her umbrella of protection or stirring up dissension among the brethren. I wonder if it's possible that it could have been papered over somehow, with everyone presenting a united front to the public. 

But, that's not JB. He's a controlling, GREEDY, arrogant little domestic dictator. He was so enraged by one of his possessions - his precious people-pleasing Sweet Jilly Muffin - raring up and challenging him, that he did some really stupid things in reaction. I bet it never crossed his tiny mind, back in 2015 or whenever they first asked, to consider a way to share the contractual and financial info with Jill and Derick that would satisfy them and keep things rolling along. I think it was just a gut reaction to a challenge to his total control of everything and he went straight into controlling mode right then, and when they kept on pushing, into outright fight mode.

And about Michelle's midnight trip to deliver the contract? I think she saw that he was risking burning everything down, for no good reason, and maybe in a moment of "weakness" he said oh heck let them have the damn contract. And she ran straight out to the car at midnight in a snowstorm and drove it over before he could take it back. We'll never know, but that's my take on it.

  • Like 19
  • Mind Blown 2
  • Applause 1
  • Useful 8
GeeGolly

GeeGolly

8 minutes ago, AstridM said:

Ha! At least he’s out of the cult and hopefully is now attending a real school. 

I agree - to a degree.

Tyler was very lucky to be cared for by family members but being shuffled around is hard. And the fact that JB&M aren't fighting to keep him will no doubt have an impact.

Imagine at 15 years old going to high school having been homeschooled for the last 7 years. Imagine living with grandparents after spending the last 7 years surrounded by young folks.

Not saying remaining with the Duggars would be good, but surely leaving is hard.

  • Like 23
Natalie68

Natalie68

2 hours ago, Jeeves said:

  

No kidding!

I do not believe JB has actually invoiced his kids for their care and feeding. He was furious - and I think scared sh*tless - by Jill and Derick insisting on getting copies of the TLC contract and the Mad Family Inc. corporate documents (Jill was a shareholder). In his rage and fear he came up with that stupid "itemized statement" and fired it at her.

It was a d*ck move. And a stupid one. Because now there will be a public memory of him as the guy who billed his kids for their upbringing. Not exactly accurate, but I'm not breaking my heart over any unfairness to him if that does stick to his public persona. 

In his reaction to Jill and Derick challenging his authority, he also enlisted several of his other kids to pile on the Dillards. They sent voicemails and texts "all day long, each one pleading with us to get this resolved." All that was needed was for JB to hand over the documents so "resolving" it was in his hands, not the Dillards'. When the phone onslaught didn't work some of them started visiting - day and night. Jill was willing to sit and hear them out, but when they started coming over and wanting to stay up till midnight talking, when Derick had law school exams, the next day, she "finally told them no." And got pushback! They said "this is way more important than law school!" Oy.

She said that one of the sibs did tell her what was going on. 

JB was also softening up the other sibs. From early 2017, JB had been paying "small, non-negotiable amounts" to the siblings and spouses who were filming. It seemed to Jill that he had brainwashed them into thinking they weren't owed anything and that "the $80,000 payment had been super generous." There were strings attached to those payments, of course - including piling on Jill and Derick. And I'm sure he was keeping the sibs in the dark about those tax returns. Jill says the sibs were "still so terrified of stirring up dissension among the brethren that they went along with most everything."  BTW she never identified any of the sibs involved, not even by gender. 

I can see JB being sh*t scared of his financial maneuverings being exposed. He could have been walking a line just on the right side of the tax laws, and I'm sure that any income taxes due on the "income" shown on his kids' tax returns were paid. Now, the fact that the kids weren't actually paid that "income" is a different matter. I think that in his own head, he believed all that money was his to control and by setting aside certain sums for his kids as a future inheritance (when he and Michelle died) or an "investment" he was managing, he was just being the headship. Or whatever. He invested the money in real estate and other businesses, and seems to have done pretty well. But the money he was using was earned by his entire family being at the beck and call of a TLC crew several weeks a year, from toddlerhood well into their 20's. And none of them saw a dime to call their own.

Since reading the book I've wondered if JB could have avoided a big blowup with Jill and Derick if he hadn't been so all-out arrogant and controlling from the start. What if he'd handed them the contract when they first asked, I think back in 2015 when the question of reimbursement for Izzy's birth costs came up? What if he'd disclosed how he'd handled the money for the kids? I think he might have avoided total war. Now, I don't think the fiddling with Jill's tax returns would have gone down well with Derick even then. But Jill was still deep into her Duggar/IBLP conditioning; she would have been terrified of leaving her umbrella of protection or stirring up dissension among the brethren. I wonder if it's possible that it could have been papered over somehow, with everyone presenting a united front to the public. 

But, that's not JB. He's a controlling, GREEDY, arrogant little domestic dictator. He was so enraged by one of his possessions - his precious people-pleasing Sweet Jilly Muffin - raring up and challenging him, that he did some really stupid things in reaction. I bet it never crossed his tiny mind, back in 2015 or whenever they first asked, to consider a way to share the contractual and financial info with Jill and Derick that would satisfy them and keep things rolling along. I think it was just a gut reaction to a challenge to his total control of everything and he went straight into controlling mode right then, and when they kept on pushing, into outright fight mode.

And about Michelle's midnight trip to deliver the contract? I think she saw that he was risking burning everything down, for no good reason, and maybe in a moment of "weakness" he said oh heck let them have the damn contract. And she ran straight out to the car at midnight in a snowstorm and drove it over before he could take it back. We'll never know, but that's my take on it.

What I find hilarious is now that the financial shenanigans are out there, possibly there will be some further looksee into Mad Family Inc/JB.  Just wait until the other kids wake up!  Just look what happened with Josh and some of his skeletons coming rattling out of his closet.  The door opened a smidge and now he is a guest of the Feds.  I would like to think Michelle snuck the contract to them and JB had no idea.  I would like to think she isn't a total loser.

1 hour ago, dariafan said:

Why does Jim boob have to be so over reactive ?  As Jill says in her book , he went home one day and smashed his 8 tracks because the music wasn’t pleasing to God.  He couldn’t just toss them ?  Like in shp when he talks about the bonfire to get rid of all worldly things in their house …

Brings up the memory of some of the kids talking about Pop's temper.  WHAT DID THEY SEE???  WHAT DID HE DO?  Besides father a totally gross pedo and other sons who see women as chattle.

  • Like 13
  • Sad 2
  • Useful 1
  • Love 1
AgathaC

AgathaC

I kind of wonder about Michelle. I always assumed she was kind of a silent partner steering the ship. But the more I’m hearing (from people who’ve read the book, other comments), I’m wondering just how much she was brainwashed, manipulated and controlled by JB.

That wouldn’t absolve her of failing to protect her children, but it would add a layer.

  • Like 19
GeeGolly

GeeGolly

8 minutes ago, Salacious Kitty said:

Jill definitely puts the lion's share of the blame for everything on JB. I think she let Meech off pretty easy, even casting her as a heroine in the contract delivery scene. 

I think that could be for a few reasons. One is a lot of what Michelle does is behind the scenes and for JB's ears only. Of course when JB is flying off the handle independent of Michelle's 'support' he looks like a solo bad guy. Also, I do think Michelle likes to resolve things to a degree, at least to a low and polite roar. And lastly Jill didn't/doesn't want either of her parents to be angry with her so anything that looks like an olive branch or support is amplified in her mind. She's assuming she knows why Michelle dropped the contract off, when Michelle's reason could be totally different.

No matter how its put, JB&M put Jill through hell though.

  • Like 16
jschoolgirl

jschoolgirl

6 hours ago, Jeeves said:

And about Michelle's midnight trip to deliver the contract? I think she saw that he was risking burning everything down, for no good reason, and maybe in a moment of "weakness" he said oh heck let them have the damn contract. And she ran straight out to the car at midnight in a snowstorm and drove it over before he could take it back. We'll never know, but that's my take on it.

I am surprised that he permitted her to even handle it, let alone deliver it.

  • Like 10
  • Useful 1
MaryAnneSpier

MaryAnneSpier

In regards to Tyler, could it be possible that the Duggars are being carefully eyed by DCFS? If Anna and her 7 kids are staying in the house, and a lot of money is being put toward legal fees and payouts to the elder Duggar offspring, perhaps there's an issue of providing a proper home to that many kids, resulting in Tyler being sent somewhere more suitable as deemed by DCFS. Or maybe just the general discord, tension, and upheaval in the household was too much for Tyler to handle emotionally. 

  • Like 3
  • Useful 2
Notabug

Notabug

(edited)
Quote

What if he'd handed them the contract when they first asked, I think back in 2015 when the question of reimbursement for Izzy's birth costs came up?

What if, back when Jill and Derick, just starting out in marriage, faced unexpected medical expenses from the birth of their child and, Jill's father, known to be quite secure financially, had simply stepped up, like so many people in similar circumstances do and offered to give them a check to cover their bills?

My parents never had any kind of money, but I know danged well that if I or any of my siblings ever faced a similar circumstance, my mom and dad would've helped as much as they could even if they had to cut back on things for themselves to do it.

Considering how many hundreds of thousands JB has dumped down the sewer that is Josh,  writing a check for 10 grand so that Jill and Derick wouldn't be saddled with that debt so early in their marriage seems like it would've been easy peasy for JB.  Selfish cheapskate.

3 hours ago, GeeGolly said:

DCF can't remove kids from their parents because they're poor.

I'm guessing Tyler's family are concerned over all the bullshit going on and requested custody and JB&M aren't fighting it because they don't want more negative publicity.

I'd imagine things are a little tough at the TTH these days and, if Tyler has been seeing and speaking to his grandparents all along; he was more than happy to get out of that atmosphere.

Edited by Notabug
  • Like 22
  • Applause 1
  • Love 1
AstridM

AstridM

2 hours ago, Salacious Kitty said:

Tyler's wishes weren't made known in the petition. However, his mother approved the move, being unemployed with no transportation still unable to care for him herself. His father is listed as "unknown." That's sad.

Doesn’t his mom have custody of another of her kids though?

Meow Mix

Meow Mix

2 hours ago, Laura Holt said:

TO be honest I am actually surprised Michelle and the girls are even allowed to drive.

I suspect that's just a matter of convenience.  If they couldn't drive, one of the menfolk would have to drive them to the grocery store and wherever else they needed to go to keep things running.  That would seriously cut into their leisure time.

I can't see Michelle openly defying JB and handing over the contract, but I can definitely see the scenario where she talked him down and got him to agree in a moment of weakness and ran the contract over there before he could change his mind.  I suspect given some of the evidence of his temper that she has had to learn how to manage him.

The biggest thing here is that had he just provided the contract, taken his lumps and given them some money to satisfy them in the short term, maybe none of this would have happened.  I doubt JB has enough self-awareness to see his own part in this mess.

  • Like 23
andromeda331

andromeda331

9 hours ago, Meow Mix said:

I suspect that's just a matter of convenience.  If they couldn't drive, one of the menfolk would have to drive them to the grocery store and wherever else they needed to go to keep things running.  That would seriously cut into their leisure time.

I can't see Michelle openly defying JB and handing over the contract, but I can definitely see the scenario where she talked him down and got him to agree in a moment of weakness and ran the contract over there before he could change his mind.  I suspect given some of the evidence of his temper that she has had to learn how to manage him.

The biggest thing here is that had he just provided the contract, taken his lumps and given them some money to satisfy them in the short term, maybe none of this would have happened.  I doubt JB has enough self-awareness to see his own part in this mess.

No, it's all Jill's and Derrick's fault.

  • LOL 4
  • Popular Post
Minivanessa

Minivanessa

  • Popular Post

 Bringing this over from the Jill/Derick topic.

14 minutes ago, Salacious Kitty said:

He expected them to shut up and do as they were told, even as adults. To quest was considered to be disobedience. All so Boob could continue to sit on his piles of cash. 

Such an evil, greedy asshole. 

From your keyboard to God's ears.

I wrote a comment about JB's financial shenanigans with the kids' tax returns and the TLC money. 

So I was thinking that JB must have been very confident that he would just roll along for the rest of his life being in total control of all the family's money, with the kids only getting their share of the family wealth after both he and Michelle had died. (Details in that post over in the other topic. The kids had no idea until Jill blew it up, that JB's CPA had filed tax returns for years showing each of them had received income - but they hadn't received any of it. JB kept control of all of it.)

As we know, in IBLP - and certainly in the Duggar family - the kids are expected to bow down to their father all the days of their lives. The Umbrella of Authority. 

I think JB really bought into that 101%, as delusional an idea as it is. You can't expect all your kids to grow up and remain docile and under your control. You can fool all of the people some of the time, and some of the people all of the time, but even Bill Gothard levels of brainwashing and control aren't 100% effective for everyone for all time.

I remember reading that JB was tight with Doug Philips, the Vision Forum guy (I think VF gave Meech that famous MOTY award), before he was toppled from his throne of power. And that connection also included Geoffrey Botkin, a fundie mover and shaker who advocated (and may still advocate) a "200 year plan." Under that plan, each fundie patriarch would remain large and in charge of all his descendants, down the generations. The family would stick together, religiously, financially, etc., and marry and multiply, until after 200 years there would be thousands of people in that family (more like a tribe by then), and that would help regain dominion over the world in the name of the correct Jesus.

Yes, it sounds nuts. But Botkin published books, and he had a freaking SPREADSHEET for his family plan, and apparently instructions on how each fundie patriarch could do that too. 

I think somewhere in JB's head, has been the idea that he was building that kind of extended family empire down the generations. So of course, it was totally fine, and probably a directive from God, that JB controlled all the money, including the income from the TV show. And doled it out to the kids on an as-needed (or as JB decided) basis. 

A long time ago there was something, maybe a bit of dialogue in one of the 19K&C episodes, where Jill said something a little cryptic about how their family was kind of a "tribe" but they weren't really supposed to talk about that. 

Things that make you go hmm...

Of course, it really messes with your 200 year plan when before you've even been a patriarch for 40 years:

  • your oldest child and Crown Prince is serving time in federal prison for committing nasty felonies
  • your most eager-to-please daughter and her hand-picked husband not only ask questions about MONEY (!!) but start thinking for themselves and acting in their own best interests and that of their young family
  • another daughter marries a former pro athlete who doesn't come from the iBLP and doesn't recognize you as headship over him for a New York minute
  • if we can believe Jill, during Josh's trial some of your other kids ask inconvenient questions about the family and your version of what they should be doing
  • and that is just the stuff that the general public knows - not even the rumblings and problems that aren't in the public domain

Reality can be messy, and can bite you in the butt regardless of your deeply held delusions. Looking at you, JB.

  • Like 27
  • Applause 6
  • Love 1
GeeGolly

GeeGolly

(edited)
26 minutes ago, ginger90 said:

If Jill, and any of the others had tax returns filed in their names, wouldn’t that mean they couldn’t be claimed as dependents?

I'm guessing he started them as employees as teenagers. I assume he only did it because it was cheaper for him tax wise to have them working than have them as dependents.

Edited by GeeGolly
  • Useful 2
Minivanessa

Minivanessa

(edited)
46 minutes ago, ginger90 said:

If Jill, and any of the others had tax returns filed in their names, wouldn’t that mean they couldn’t be claimed as dependents?

No. I'm no expert, but I believe their parents could claim them as dependents if certain conditions were met.

I found this info from H&R Block -

Quote

You can usually claim your children as dependents even if they are dependents with income and no matter how much dependent income they may have or where it comes from. However, they must meet the following income test requirements:

  • Your children must be one of these:

                         Under age 19

                         Under age 24 and a full-time student

                         Permanently and totally disabled

  • Your children must have lived with you for more than half of the year. There are exceptions for temporary absences, like when your children are away at school.
  • Your children must not have provided more than half of their own support.

The support test looks at how much support your children provide for themselves. It considers who paid expenses like food, lodging, and medical. As long as your children didn’t pay more than half of these expenses, you’ll meet the support test. It’s not necessary that you paid these types of expenses, as long as your children didn’t.

We know that the kids actually had no actual money and that JB paid for the household expenses, whatever "paper income" had been reported for each kid to the IRS. I can't imagine the holy super parents, JB and Meech, not claiming all their kids as dependents on their personal income tax returns, for as long as possible.

I don't know how they handled all that after each kid turned 19. Maybe some "employee" deal as @GeeGolly suggested? We know that over the years Jana has at least on paper owned some commercial properties. I suppose even JB couldn't justify treating her as a child forever - especially since we think she keeps the household running.

(Remember, Jill said that JB was holding and controlling each kid's "income" as an inheritance or investment which he intended that they could access after both parents had died. I'm sure it was all just in one big pot of Mad Family money that he managed as he saw fit. I doubt he was keeping careful accounting as to each child's "funds." He only started howling about the "expenses" of raising the kids when Jill and Derick challenged him and he created that utter bullcr*p list of the money Jill "owed" him for rearing her. ETA: I just looked at that list again. Some of the items go back "8 years" and some "12 years." That list was made in 2018, so some of the things would have been paid after Jill was an adult, and others while she was still a minor. She was born in 1991, hit age 19 in 2010. Not that any of that nonsense was real, but it suggests JB may have had some fragments of tax considerations in his head when he was making it up. I wonder if he wanted to claim his unmarried adult kids as dependents on his personal tax returns but his CPA wouldn't let him, LOL.)

Edited by Jeeves
  • Like 2
  • Useful 8
ozziemom

ozziemom

10 minutes ago, CalicoKitty said:

I would not like to be the accountant who signed those tax returns.   I would not be surprised if there is some kind of investigation.  I can see JB telling officials that "all" the kids signed off on this.  Maybe they did.  "Here, kids, sign your name on this paper."

These days with electronic filing of returns, the signature page is a single page. There are numbers, but it’s just taxable income and taxes due, so unless the kids are savvy enough to look at the whole return, it’s pretty easy to just say “sign here”. And we all know until Jill, none of them questioned any of it, probably even Meechelle.

  • Like 6
  • Sad 4
Minivanessa

Minivanessa

1 hour ago, GeeGolly said:

One would think JB would base the kids' income in his favor. Since he's basically making it all up he could pay them an amount where they'd get a return rather than paying. There seemed to be some kind of oops (or on purpose) at one point and Jill ended up owing money.

Do we know that Jill owed money? The book didn't say she owed money to the IRS. It did not say what was in the IRS letter they received, only that she gave it to Derick and he started researching, got their back tax returns, and discovered the phantom "income" that had been reported to the IRS but not paid to Jill.

Jill wrote that the adverse effect on Jill and Derick, was that when he was applying for law school scholarships/grants, their tax returns made them look like they had a lot more cash than they really did, because of that phantom $132,000 of income.

I think that if they had owed back taxes on it, she would have said so. On page 206, she writes that when they first brought this up to JB, he told Jill and Derick that he (JB) had paid the taxes on the income. And she didn't dispute that in the book. 

  • Like 1
  • Thanks 4
  • Useful 5
GeeGolly

GeeGolly

36 minutes ago, Jeeves said:

Do we know that Jill owed money? The book didn't say she owed money to the IRS. It did not say what was in the IRS letter they received, only that she gave it to Derick and he started researching, got their back tax returns, and discovered the phantom "income" that had been reported to the IRS but not paid to Jill.

Jill wrote that the adverse effect on Jill and Derick, was that when he was applying for law school scholarships/grants, their tax returns made them look like they had a lot more cash than they really did, because of that phantom $132,000 of income.

I think that if they had owed back taxes on it, she would have said so. On page 206, she writes that when they first brought this up to JB, he told Jill and Derick that he (JB) had paid the taxes on the income. And she didn't dispute that in the book. 

I thought I read somewhere that is why this IRS letter was sent. Did Jill state if this was the first letter of its kind? I've never received a letter from the IRS ever, and didn't even know it was a thing. I'm now really curious to what the was.

Notabug

Notabug

1 hour ago, GeeGolly said:

I thought I read somewhere that is why this IRS letter was sent. Did Jill state if this was the first letter of its kind? I've never received a letter from the IRS ever, and didn't even know it was a thing. I'm now really curious to what the was.

It could've just been a letter saying the return was being audited.  Or, if it was that year's return, that a date or signature was missing.  Back in my younger days, when I did my own returns, I made a math error (filing at the last minute is never a good idea) and got a letter with the correction that I had to sign.  BTW, the error was in the IRS' favor and didn't affect the tax I had paid.  I was getting a refund both before and after the correction.

If JB and his accountant pal manufactured income for Jill, they could easily enough manufacture 1099's or W-2's to cover an audit.

  • Like 1
  • Useful 5
Minivanessa

Minivanessa

5 hours ago, GeeGolly said:

I thought I read somewhere that is why this IRS letter was sent. Did Jill state if this was the first letter of its kind? I've never received a letter from the IRS ever, and didn't even know it was a thing. I'm now really curious to what the was.

Jill did not reveal the contents of the IRS letter in the book, nor did she mention any other letters from the IRS except that one. As I was reading the book for the first time, I stopped and again went over the parts about the IRS letter. I wanted to be sure I hadn't missed anything interesting, but darnit she didn't spill any tea about it.

I have since searched the Kindle book for the word "taxes" and found nothing except that as I mentioned, JB said he had paid the taxes due on the income reported to Jill, and she did not contradict that statement. 

As @Notabug has said, there are reasons the IRS may contact you besides demanding payment of unpaid taxes. 

  • Like 1
  • Thanks 2
  • Useful 5
Fosca

Fosca

On 9/15/2023 at 4:44 AM, dariafan said:

Why does Jim boob have to be so over reactive ?  As Jill says in her book , he went home one day and smashed his 8 tracks because the music wasn’t pleasing to God.  He couldn’t just toss them ?  Like in shp when he talks about the bonfire to get rid of all worldly things in their house …

Because unless he destroys them, someone else might be corrupted by his unholy 8-tracks!  Or else destroying them makes God happy and/or Satan unhappy.

Me, I think he did because he's a swaggering, overbearing, tin-plated dictator with delusions of godhood.  I always wanted to use that phrase, and it sure fits here!

  • Like 20
  • Love 3
cm-soupsipper
Message added by cm-soupsipper,

Closure Notice: This Thread is now closed due to the name (and much of the posting within it). Please be mindful going forward by naming topics in a way that invites a healthy community conversation. If you name something for a cheap laugh, this thread may be closed later because it encourages discrimination and harm. 

Guest
This topic is now closed to further replies.
Go to topic listing
×
×
  • Create New...