S01.E05: Alpine Shepherd Boy

[editorgrrl]

Did I hear that right? When the cops were looking in the back window at the pulled out fuses, did one of them say 'is he a tweaker?'

 

Whole lot of camp-stove fuel. 

Guy sure as shit sounds like a tweaker.

You see what he did to the breaker box?

Is he coming out, or are we going in?

You got 10 seconds to open this door, or it's coming down. You hear me?

[Bannon]

Did I hear that right? When the cops were looking in the back window at the pulled out fuses, did one of them say 'is he a tweaker?'

Yes, the stripped out fuse box, and the camp fuel containers, led the police to suspect that somebody was cooking, and using, meth in the house. The Albuquerque Police are not renowned for their judgement and restraint, so the kicking in of the door and tasering was completely credible. As stated above, it would have been completey credible if they had shot him dead, which was what I thought was going to happen, until the officer unholstered his taser, and not his pistol. 

[ghoulina]

Sadly, at this point, Chuck may have been more scared of the Taser than the pistol. 

[fauntleroy]

I'm not sure she actually did. Chuck said that it was only certain frequencies of electromagnetic energy that bothered him.

 

Yea. I completely missed the moment when the Dr did that and was wondering why Jimmy said that was a dirty trick. Might be worth asking Chuck plainly, or giving him a blind test, that could demonstrate to him that his ailment is psychosomatic. Should be easy to determine for sure, then the choice to commit him or not becomes obvious.

[duVerre]

 

His brother is completely delusional. Not sure why he doesn't just have him declared as such and cash out of the practice for him. He will never be able to practice law again

 

He doesn't just have him declared because he loves him. He loves him dearly. It is extremely difficult, in emotional terms, to face the fact that someone you love is  incompetent, let alone put that person in an institution. Just try telling your elderly parent that their Alzheimer's is at the point where they can't live independently any more and you'll know what I mean. 

 

 

Chuck said that it was only certain frequencies of electromagnetic energy that bothered him. Just because he's paranoid about anything electrical doesn't mean he doesn't really have a problem. And, mental state affects pain perception.

This. I don't suppose the show will ever tell us clearly if Chuck's illness is biological or psychosomatic. Many illnesses have been called psychosomatic, only to be declared "real" biological illnesses years later. Multiple sclerosis is a famous example; many patients were institutionalized til MRIs were invented and doctors reversed themselves. Just in the past few weeks, that kind of reversal happened to chronic fatigue syndrome, which some had insisted was all in the mind.

 

Also, in many illnesses, the symptoms wax and wane. That's why it's believable to me that, if Chuck's illness isn't psychosomatic, he could suffer exposure to electricity (say) in the morning and have a few good hours later in the day. 

 

As for Jimmy's observation that Chuck gets worse whenever he is distressed about Jimmy--well, everyone is worse off when they're stressed.

 

All in all, I think the jury is still out about whether Chuck is physically or mentally ill. I think it will remain that way. I find Chuck's story really compelling, whichever way I look at it.

[editorgrrl]

I thought this episode was titled "Jello"? When did it change to "Alpine Shepherd Boy"? That's quite a leap!

 

According to amctv.com, the next episode (106) is "Five-O"—which makes this one stand out all the more.

[DrSpaceman]

There was a brief scene of the cops looking in the back door and seeing wires torn out of the wall and a lot of gas cans, causing them to make the leap to bomb-making terrorist. Still, in that case they should have called for backup, not broken down the door and attacked with tasers. But the story demanded it--both for humor and to explore Chuck's reaction to electricity.

That seems to be the case, but I would like there to also turn out to be some real thing that's making him sensitive to electricity--if that exists.

 

 

There is no known condition in the real world that would make him sensitive to electricity.  In teh TV world, maybe they will come up with something, but in real life, its is 99.999999% psychosomatic with those symptoms he describes. 

 

You can be sensitive to light in various ways causing headaches, migraines, seizures in some cases, worsening certain symptoms, but what he describes here, its psychosomatic.  And even on the off chance there might be a small sliver of underneathing truth to his symptoms, its greatly exagerrated by him.  Nothing would cause you to be nonfunctional with exposure to electromagnetism as a human.  Maybe as a robot. 

 

What he describes is a classic psychosomatic presentation....vague subjective symptoms that are hard to pin down, cannot be proven or disprove because its all based on how the patients feels and not any onjective measure someone else can recognize or quantify much in any way

[Umbelina]

Can someone help me out, because I think I heard something, but was unfortunately distracted at that moment.  I haven't seen it mentioned in the comments, and haven't read the recaps/reviews yet.

 

At the end, I thought Chuck said something that implied he knew the doctor turned something on there at the end.  Did he?

[Chaos Theory]

Chucks problem is most definitely psychosomatic. The question is; psychosomatic of what? Slipping Jimmy? His law firm which looks all kinds of shady? Chuck despite his batshit crazy looks to be a deeply honest man surrounded by crooked lawyers. I'd go a little crazy too.

[editorgrrl]

At the end, I thought Chuck said something that implied he knew the doctor turned something on there at the end.  Did he?

 

Nope. But when the doctor told Jimmy, "This allergy to electricity isn't real, it's a manifestation of something deeper," Jimmy admitted, "I'm not saying it's 100% real, okay? But Chuck is smarter than you and me put together, so we're not talking him out of this, and I'm not sending him to a rubber room."

[carrps]

I never would've guessed the alpine shepherd boy was a Hummel figurine. Matlock, the theme from Harry Lime, a stair lift, and an old woman walking really slowly—just like Tim Conway's old man character on the Carol Burnett show. "Aren't you a spicy one? Moxie is in such short supply these days."

It's the theme from "The Third Man" movie. I think that's the actual title of the piece of music. Harry Lime was the character played by Orson Welles in the movie, so the TV series used the movie music. It wasn't original to the show.

 

 

My mom has about 60 Hummels, including Alpine Shepherd Boy and Girl with Geese, LOL.  We've been trying to gently let her know that her collection probably isn't worth as much as she thinks.  Now that it's the butt of a joke on Saul, I think we can maybe get 25¢ apiece at a garage sale.

They're kinda like beanie babies for the geriatric set?

 

I liked this episode a lot. Lots of depths.

[editorgrrl]

It's the theme from "The Third Man" movie. I think that's the actual title of the piece of music. Harry Lime was the character played by Orson Welles in the movie, so the TV series used the movie music. It wasn't original to the show.

Anton Karas also performed "The Third Man Theme" and other zither music for the 1951–52 syndicated radio series The Adventures of Harry Lime, a Third Man prequel produced in London.

http://youtu.be/2oEsWi88Qv0

Edited to add that The Third Man movie was 1949. Orson Welles reprised his role for the radio prequel. So the song is both an "elderly" reference and a prequel joke.

Edited March 4, 2015 by editorgrrl

[DrSpaceman]

He doesn't just have him declared because he loves him. He loves him dearly. It is extremely difficult, in emotional terms, to face the fact that someone you love is  incompetent, let alone put that person in an institution. Just try telling your elderly parent that their Alzheimer's is at the point where they can't live independently any more and you'll know what I mean. 

 

This. I don't suppose the show will ever tell us clearly if Chuck's illness is biological or psychosomatic. Many illnesses have been called psychosomatic, only to be declared "real" biological illnesses years later. Multiple sclerosis is a famous example; many patients were institutionalized til MRIs were invented and doctors reversed themselves. Just in the past few weeks, that kind of reversal happened to chronic fatigue syndrome, which some had insisted was all in the mind.

 

Also, in many illnesses, the symptoms wax and wane. That's why it's believable to me that, if Chuck's illness isn't psychosomatic, he could suffer exposure to electricity (say) in the morning and have a few good hours later in the day. 

 

As for Jimmy's observation that Chuck gets worse whenever he is distressed about Jimmy--well, everyone is worse off when they're stressed.

 

All in all, I think the jury is still out about whether Chuck is physically or mentally ill. I think it will remain that way. I find Chuck's story really compelling, whichever way I look at it.

 

 

Thats not really true about multiple sclerosis.  It was able to be diagnosed long before MRIs were available.  its certainly true that its easier to diagnose via mri and can be diagnosed earlier and with less clear symptoms and I am sure there were cases missed based on the non-availability of better tests, but Multiple sclerosis even now is not a diagnosis based on MRI alone or any single test alone.  Most patients have objective physical manifestations with their MS in addition to a whole bunch of subjective symptoms. Even before MRI was available though there were clear diagnostic criteria for the diagnosis. 

 

this is what I think this is an interesting storyline, though, it reveals a whole lot of truth about the american health care system both from a patient and physician perspective. His case is a bit odd but its not in the least bit implausible in terms of what is faced commonly in today's heatlh care setting. I could write a whole lot more from many perspectives.  Its these very type of cases and how to deal with them that is a big problem in the american health care system and it was at least presented very realistically from the doctor's and the pt/family's perspective, no matter how you feel about it his particular case.   Basically though, in many cases, its more socially acceptable for the patient/family to believe someone may have the sliver of the chance that some rare, undiscovered disorder is causing symptoms a physician cannot definitevly diagnosis than to accept the the fact that in many of these cases, there is a huge pyschosomatic component and try and deal with that fact. 

[queenanne]

Chucks problem is most definitely psychosomatic. The question is; psychosomatic of what? Slipping Jimmy? His law firm which looks all kinds of shady? Chuck despite his batshit crazy looks to be a deeply honest man surrounded by crooked lawyers. I'd go a little crazy too.

 

Yes, my mind is running along similar lines, because of the amount of lawyers who hate their jobs.  A staid, less secretive reason is, if the law is what was driving Chuck nuts and he's exaggerating/not fighting it, because he doesn't want to see the inside of HHM anymore. 

 

I don't know if BCS will turn out to be that kind of show, but the mystery/show mytharc reason would be, something is going on at HHM that makes it smarter for Chuck to get outta Dodge.

 

That said, if the latter were the answer, I'd be surprised to find out Chuck was happy to have Kim there without tossing her a warning-bone also, so maybe not.

Edited March 3, 2015 by queenanne

[SlackerInc]

Maybe a better example would be how not that long ago, researchers who believed ulcers were caused by bacteria were being treated like quacks, until they turned out to be provably correct.

 

Loved the scene with the old lady. First of course, the long shot of her coming down the stairs in the chair, then slowly walking to Jimmy with the figurine. I don't think the show was making fun of her. It was the situation, where Jimmy's patience is being tried, but he keeps his cool. I love that he'd really been paying attention to her requests about the Hummel figurines.

 

I liked that too.  He even remembered the details better than she did in one instance.  He is conscientious and not just tuning her out, which was a nice touch.

 

Are we allowed to discuss the previews for the following week? Because I do believe there was some stuff in them that indicated more about Mike's past.

 

I don't know what the rules are, but I would sure prefer we didn't--I always avoid them myself.

 

My favorite little moment this week was yet another illustration of how good Jimmy is at thinking on his feet:

The crazy "rancher Bundy" type says Jimmy's car is "a sign a good man can't get ahead today".  Jimmy swirls his drink and visibly ponders that for a moment, then responds "Well, that may be, but I refuse to consider myself a victim."  Boo-yah!

ETA: It just hit me--Jimmy should have asked to be paid in gold!  How could any self-respecting libertarian secessionist type refuse?

Edited March 3, 2015 by SlackerInc

[wrestlesflamingos]

If you'd like to discuss the preview for next week's episode, please feel free to start that thread and discuss it there. Anyone wishing to avoid the preview chat, avoid the new thread.

[SnarkyTart]

ETA: It just hit me--Jimmy should have asked to be paid in gold!  How could any self-respecting libertarian secessionist type refuse?

Boo-yah!

[Clockwork Banana]

So it was obviously complete and total coincidence, but how timely!

 

By this I refer to the scene where Jimmy is peering at the fuzzy and paused VCR tape in order to record the details of Matlock's suit.  He actually ponders aloud for a second as to whether it is light blue or cream colour, and then decides that it is in fact light blue.  Of course I immediately thought about the white/gold or blue/black debate that exploded all over the internet a few days ago.  It made me giggle.  Vince Gill is a seer! (Or is that seersucker - as in suit....badaboom splat).

 

Jonathan Banks can convey so much in a split second.  The 'don't even go there' look he gave when Jimmy handed his elder care card to him was priceless.

[duVerre]

 

Thats not really true about multiple sclerosis.  It was able to be diagnosed long before MRIs were available.  its certainly true that its easier to diagnose via mri and can be diagnosed earlier and with less clear symptoms and I am sure there were cases missed based on the non-availability of better tests, but Multiple sclerosis even now is not a diagnosis based on MRI alone or any single test alone.  Most patients have objective physical manifestations with their MS in addition to a whole bunch of subjective symptoms. Even before MRI was available though there were clear diagnostic criteria for the diagnosis.

Thank you for that sensitive post. I am sure you know more MS than I do. 

 

I have had chronic fatigue syndrome--now known as SEID--for thirty years, and I am apartment-bound, (No need for sympathy--just showing where I'm coming from.) Diagnostic criteria for the illness, along with many studies showing that our immune systems are damaged, has existed since the 90s. But too many people with SEID have been dismissed by their doctors--and at the worst, committed (in the UK, where the theory that the illness is psychological has competed with biological explanations for years).

 

That is what led to my interest in MS.  I believe there was a period in the late 1800s/early 1900s when doctors simply ignored the diagnostic criteria and diagnosed their female patients with hysteria. (Female hysteria had been a popular notion since 1859.) Those patients were committed. In those days, the brain could be examined only in a post-mortem, and many women were committed for hysteria and then found--during that post-mortem  of the brain--to have had MS. 

 

All this said, Chuck's problem could well by psychological. I think the ambiguity of what's wrong with him is one of the show's most dramatic strengths.

[shapeshifter]

My mom has about 60 Hummels, including Alpine Shepherd Boy and Girl with Geese, LOL.  We've been trying to gently let her know that her collection probably isn't worth as much as she thinks.  Now that it's the butt of a joke on Saul, I think we can maybe get 25¢ apiece at a garage sale.

Officially more like about $50 each, but, yeah, not at a garage sale.

...Having a bunch of seniors who can't even open a Jell-O cup may not be the kind of advertising that Kraft wants. Perhaps they Hamlindigo'd up at the last moment.

Hah!

Silly Jell-O people. Don't they realize it was free advertising on a show by frickin' Vince BrBa Gilligan? Anyway, it was not anywhere close to the level of bad product placement that was on Rizzoli and Isles this week for Altra running shoes (which I happen to wear). They had a rotting severed foot in the shoe!

[carrps]

Anton Karas also performed "The Third Man Theme" and other zither music for the 1951–52 syndicated radio series The Adventures of Harry Lime, a Third Man prequel produced in London. 

 

Cool! I always thought it came after the movie. Did the radio series come before as well? Maybe that's why I'm confused. Thanks for the clarification!

Yes, my mind is running along similar lines, because of the amount of lawyers who hate their jobs. 

Ha! I was thinking that about the lawyers who represented Bob Durst this week on "The Jinx."

[SoSueMe]

I still have to believe that those suffering from psychosomatic illnesses (even fictional characters with fictional psychosomatic illnesses :) ) can and do truly suffer.

[wrestlesflamingos]

I still have to believe that those suffering from psychosomatic illnesses (even fictional characters with fictional psychosomatic illnesses :) ) can and do truly suffer.

Of course! We've seen Chuck's physical reaction and seen his perspective. The symptoms are real. The source and treatment are different in a psychosomatic illness, that's the need to know if it's real or not. Its not like he's faking and can get up an walk away, its like his body is faking without his consent.

[DrSpaceman]

It is still suffering whether its physical or psychosomatic

Most in these situations are not consciously or purposely "faking" it or just lying/making it up. For example, 25% of patients with epilepsy with have non-epileptic events that look like seizures as well, its often intertwined, not all one or the other

A few are just making it up lying, but that is the exception rather than the rule, I think

The distinction is more important in terms of how to treat them and how to get them better, or try and help them. It is difficult to help many patients such as CHuck. It is difficult to support them realistically without either coming across as insulting by suggesting they are "crazy", as they sometimes interpret it and at the same time not being an enabler of a psychosomatic problem. Its a very fine line to walk, both as a caregiver and a doctor.

I don't think the doctor was necessarily correct in suggesting he need to be committed in this episode, but at the same time, in the long run, what Saul/Jimmy in this case is doing falls more on the enabling side, in my opinion

Edited March 4, 2015 by DrSpaceman

[jnymph]

I want a pedicure from Jimmy, even if it's sloppy.

Edited March 4, 2015 by jnymph

[duVerre]

 

It is difficult to support them realistically without either coming across as insulting by suggesting they are "crazy", as they sometimes interpret it and at the same time not being an enabler of a psychosomatic problem. Its a very fine line to walk, both as a caregiver and a doctor.

Very true. But I thought the doctor's question ("does the idea of an institution bother you?"--something like that) was badly phrased, to say the least. Maybe a better word is "boneheaded." I can't have been the only viewer who empathized with Chuck's answer (something like "wouldn't it bother YOU?" (Of course, it was comedy.)

 

Jimmy IS enabling, whether Chuck has a physical or mental illness. Either way, he needs professional care.

 

It occurs to me, though, that the show will be in deep trouble if it takes this matter far enough to give Chuck a biological condition, as that might lead viewers to think there is a physical "allergy to electricity" out there in real life. So I'm betting that the writing will stay ambiguous.

Edited March 4, 2015 by duVerre

[Consternation]

I still love Chuck.  When the police were at his door, I was clutching my pearls and watching through my fingers. 

 

When he was quoting laws at the police through the door, did anyone else think, "This is my own private domicile!  Bitch."  (And if it's a callback to that, it's also a callback to you know what, Joe's magnet.)

 

These cops never suspected Walt for two years and here they think Chuck is the cook.

[Quilt Fairy]

I just finished listening to the insider podcast for this episode, and it answered a few questions we've had.

-The episode was supposed to be called 'Jello' (and in fact, it gave them the idea to have all the episode titles end in 'o') but they were not allowed to use it. Vince didn't go into detail about whether it was a copyright issue.

-The nursing home is the same one that Tio will be in.

-The diner where Mike has breakfast is the same one where Walt and Lydia met.

-The hospital is the same one where Brock was treated and the nurse was also the same.

-He didn't know about the music in advance, but it turns out that VG is a 'Third Man' geek, to the extent that he's taken a 'Third Man' tour of the Vienna sewers.

Edited March 4, 2015 by Quilt Fairy

[DrSparkles]

 

 

I'm guessing that's Kaylee's mom, previously played by an extra with similar coloring and build on "Breaking Bad."

 

Who? What? BB was one of my favorite shows ever, but I have a horrible memory :(

[wrestlesflamingos]

Kaylee is the name of Mike's granddaughter. On BB, she is called Kaylee Ehrmentraut, suggesting Mike's son is Kaylee's father. I tend to believe the woman in the car was Kaylee's mother, Mike's daughter in law.

 

Mike offers in BB that spending time with Kaylee was pretty hard fought for him.

[ghoulina]

These cops never suspected Walt for two years and here they think Chuck is the cook.

 

Right??? It was kind of funny, but I just hated how quickly they made that assumption. And then just busted down his door without really doing anything to substantiate their theory. 

[jnymph]

Kaylee is the name of Mike's granddaughter. On BB, she is called Kaylee Ehrmentraut, suggesting Mike's son is Kaylee's father. I tend to believe the woman in the car was Kaylee's mother, Mike's daughter in law.

 

Mike offers in BB that spending time with Kaylee was pretty hard fought for him.

I assumed the woman in the car was Kaylee's mother as well.   Played by Kerry Condon from Rome ... I was all "Octavia !  How are you?!"

 

Another intriguing and funny episode.    I just love Jimmy; he's all kinds of awesomeness.  :)

[wrestlesflamingos]

OCTAVIA. OMG, that was really killing my brain. Thank you mystery poster!

[Hanahope]

The one thing about Chuck's illness, whether physical or mental or a combination of both, is that he tells Jimmy that he's going to beat it, or get better, but there's nothing indicating that Chuck is trying to get better.  What procedure is he using to try and get better?  What doctor is he seeing for assistance in getting better?  That's why it seems more of a mental thing, and that Chuck really doesn't want to get better because as he is, he is able to exert better subtle control over Jimmy.

 

Its pretty amazing that the police would really come out for a report of stealing a newspaper.  I mean really, they don't have better things to do?

 

Agreed that the parade of "clients" was hilarious.

 

I do think that is the cafe that Mike also met with Walter one time.

 

The black cop that Mike opened the door to was familiar.  I presume we saw him in BB.  I knew I recognized the nurse/doctor too.

[Deanie87]

Chuck wants to believe he will get better but also is in total denial about the true source of his problems and the fact it is a psychosis and not a true physical problem. 

 

The longer that goes on and he does not confront that, the less likely he is to "get better".  I see this every day as a physician.  Patients say they will "do anything" to get better but then are in denial about the true nature of their problem and what they actually need to do to get better.  This is actually an interesting and very relevant, modern, real life scenario.  Its a great way to introduce the concept of secondary gain for a patient, which is what must be determined in order for them to get better.  What is Chuck gaining from the delusion?  Not wanting to return to the law firm?  Not wanting to face something outside his house?  There has to be something or some reason why he has created this scenario where basically he has isolated himself from the rest of society.

This storyline has really resonated with me as I have a friend who is struggling with a similar condition (right down to requesting that cell phone not be brought into her house.). If you were to talk to her about anything other than her health, you would have no idea what she is suffering from. But eventually it all comes back to her various "allergies" and the more she talks the more you get the sense of how deep her illness runs. She does leave the house, rarely, but she also had to quit her job and basically lives on Medicaid and help from her friends and family. We have all gone round and round with her about her condition (some of it is actually based on the physical, though she is in denial about that) and its hard to declare someone unfit to make their own decisions when they are completely rational and competent about every other aspect of their life, and when they threaten to cut you out of their life. Poor Jimmy, if he feels responsible for any of it, then I don't blame him for agreeing to what makes Chuck happy, even if it is ultimately to Chuck's detriment.

I loved how "excited" all of the old people were to get their jello and the Matlock imitation. Hey, there are far worse role models for a lawyer than good ole Ben Matlock!

[peeayebee]

Its pretty amazing that the police would really come out for a report of stealing a newspaper.  I mean really, they don't have better things to do?

The neighbor probably also told them about the guy behaving erratically and wearing a tinfoil blanket.

[LoneHaranguer]

Maybe a better example would be how not that long ago, researchers who believed ulcers were caused by bacteria were being treated like quacks, until they turned out to be provably correct.

According to a news story at the time, it had been provably correct for years, but no new treatment was available. Remarkable timing for one to be developed when the old treatments (that just kept the symptoms under control) were going off patent. Officially discovering that some people were overly sensitive to electromagnetic radiation might lead to discovering that everyone else was more sensitive than previously thought (so forget about routine use of some of that expensive medical equipment).

 

 

It was kind of funny, but I just hated how quickly they made that assumption. And then just busted down his door without really doing anything to substantiate their theory.

There were no circumstances that justified such urgency, so they were risking loss of a successful prosecution if they were right, but every city has cops that care more about bullying people.

[PrincessSteel]

My take on Chuck is that, before he got sick, he took a case that involved a lawsuit over high-tension lines and his research into ill effects from electromagnetic fields created an arena for his already existing anxiety to run free. I also get the vibe that he had to raise Jimmy from a too-young age.

[Boilergal]

I was soo excited when Ricky offered him a million dollars.  Wooo Hoooo Jaul is getting a new Car!!! And then to see Ricky's face on the bills....sigh...

 

The talking toilet was hilarious...and super creepy using a man's voice.  It made it even funnier because Mr Closeted Jaycock's had NO clue how gay/pedo-ey it sounded.  So so so wrong and loved that Jaul was all NO WAY - he has morals.

 

I see the beginnings of a beautiful friendship with Jaul and Mike!! 

[TVFan17]

I just finished listening to the insider podcast for this episode, and it answered a few questions we've had.

-The episode was supposed to be called 'Jello' (and in fact, it gave them the idea to have all the episode titles end in 'o') but they were not allowed to use it. Vince didn't go into detail about whether it was a copyright issue.

-The nursing home is the same one that Tio will be in.

-The diner where Mike has breakfast is the same one where Walt and Lydia met.

-The hospital is the same one where Brock was treated and the nurse was also the same.

-He didn't know about the music in advance, but it turns out that VG is a 'Third Man' geek, to the extent that he's taken a 'Third Man' tour of the Vienna sewers.

 

Quilt Fairy -

 

Thank you so, so much for posting this!  I asked if the senior facility/nursing home was the same one where Hector ends up (Casa Tranquila) -- the music sounded almost identical -- and if the diner where Mike was eating was one from BB, and when no one answered I figured I was imagining it and that no one else thought they were the same locations.  I thought I was losing my mind and just beginning to see BB in every detail.  Lol. 

 

I didn't even realize that the nurse at the hospital is the same -- and, in fact, I didn't even think about the hospital as it relates to BB! 

 

Clearly, I need to start listening to this podcast.

[LoneHaranguer]

 

I was soo excited when Ricky offered him a million dollars.  Wooo Hoooo Jaul is getting a new Car!!! And then to see Ricky's face on the bills....sigh...

I think a guy like Ricky would reject the idea of having a currency that isn't backed by something of value, but it would have been difficult for Jimmy to have gotten anything more than expense money in a form he could use. Ricky would have been offended.

[Quilt Fairy]

Clearly, I need to start listening to this podcast

The podcasts are awesome. I highly recommend them. Just be sure when you go to iTunes to look for the Better Call Saul Insider podcast with Kelly Dixon, as there are at least 6 other BCS podcasts available.

[kieyra]

I feel that the show has been pretty clear that Chuck's illness is psychological (see: the doctor's blind test) AND that anxiety over Jimmy is one of the drivers of his symptoms, symbolized by the space blanket. The moment he felt reassured about Jimmy's ethics, he tossed off the space blanket and left to make coffee. And they played it in a similar way in the pilot.

I understand the need for some to be defensive of perceived "all in your head" conditions, but I don't think they're going to play this as a real thing, or else they wouldn't have had Dr. Clea do the test.

[Mindymoo]

I feel that the show has been pretty clear that Chuck's illness is psychological (see: the doctor's blind test) AND that anxiety over Jimmy is one of the drivers of his symptoms, symbolized by the space blanket. The moment he felt reassured about Jimmy's ethics, he tossed off the space blanket and left to make coffee. And they played it in a similar way in the pilot.

I understand the need for some to be defensive of perceived "all in your head" conditions, but I don't think they're going to play this as a real thing, or else they wouldn't have had Dr. Clea do the test.

And somatoform disorders do indeed exist. Just because a lot of real diseases were considered to be just hyterias and people malingering for a long time doesn't mean that every disorder that someone comes forward with has some kind of physiological, scientific basis. You also have to figure in primary, secondary and tertiary gain from these somatoform disorders. I've had to do a lot of reading on this kind of stuff for a class I am in, and so far, Chuck seems to fit the bill. I personally know the frustration of being told something is wrong with my mind rather than my body, and it is exhausting, but this was due to a major oversight on the part of the doctors because I was actually giving abnormal test results along with the symptoms I presented, and I had two medical professionals as parents backing me up because they knew something was physically wrong with their teenage kid, and my getting ill wasn't just some kind of malingering or not wanting to do my school work. (I was an A student before I got ill.) With Chuck, until it is shown to be otherwise, I continue to contend that he has some kind of somatoform disorder.

[shapeshifter]

I feel that the show has been pretty clear that Chuck's illness is psychological (see: the doctor's blind test) AND that anxiety over Jimmy is one of the drivers of his symptoms, symbolized by the space blanket. The moment he felt reassured about Jimmy's ethics, he tossed off the space blanket and left to make coffee. And they played it in a similar way in the pilot.

I understand the need for some to be defensive of perceived "all in your head" conditions, but I don't think they're going to play this as a real thing, or else they wouldn't have had Dr. Clea do the test.

...You also have to figure in primary, secondary and tertiary gain from these somatoform disorders....

I'm still expecting Vince Gilligan to convince us it's all in his head and then turn around and have it be something else. If that is what's going on, maybe the physical trigger is an intermittent internal stimulus--like a metal tooth filling picking up radio signals, but not that. Edited March 5, 2015 by shapeshifter

[pasdetrois]

Each episode is better than the last!

 

Jimmy has infinite patience and it's going to be rewarded when his practice grows. I love that he's not mean to old ladies.

 

I'm glad the show didn't go over the top to make fun of the seniors. Life is hard enough as we age without being ridiculed by smart ass TV writers.

 

Based on decades of experience with a close family member with a severe mental disorder that comes and goes, I know not to obsess over labels and symptoms, trying to fit someone into a diagnostic box. Because these conditions can be "all of the above" - physical distress, delusions, etc. And sufferers can move in and out of the symptoms in the course of a day, or even an afternoon. They can be lucid and delusional during a conversation. I see that in Chuck.

 

As many folks know, it's almost impossible to force someone into treatment. Health insurance, provider availability, extremity of symptoms, and patient willingness...all create the perfect storm of a blockade against forcing a beloved family member into treatment. In real life, it's uncertain whether a judge/magistrate would order Chuck into involuntary treatment.

 

What's tricky is knowing without a doubt whether a psychiatric delusion can cause actual physical pain. Is Chuck imagining the pain he feels or is it real? That's why I tried to pay attention to the doc's little fakeout. It wasn't clear to me if Chuck was tracking what she was doing.

 

Also, extreme stress definitely pushes certain people into psychiatric illness, which may be a factor in Chuck's story.

 

ETA: years ago some Taos, NM, residents were reporting that they could hear a constant humming or vibration, and it was driving them crazy. It was never verified. But I am reminded of this in Chuck's "crazy" scenes.

Edited March 5, 2015 by pasdetrois

[Duke2801]

I want a pedicure from Jimmy, even if it's sloppy.

 

I continue to find Bob Odenkirk a blast in this.  I honestly think he's done a real good job at being the lead and anchoring the show.

 

I realized tonight that Jimmy McGill just makes me plain old happy. I don't think there was much story in tonight's episode, just a lot of scenarios, and yet watching those lawyerly scenarios put a smile on my face.

 

 

A big YUP to all of this!  It's funny that both my partner and I were rabid BB fans, and while I'm loving the hell out of BCS, he's not really feeling it like I am.  He's all "but nothings happening!" while I'm just falling more in love with the character of Jimmy/Saul (or "Jaul"--love that nickname!) and enjoying everything he says and does. 

 

The scene with the elderly owner of the Alpine Shepherd Boy only cemented my crush on Jaul.  He was so cute and patient with her (well, at least, tried to come off as patient on the outside!)

I found it sublimely ironic that the girl I remember most for Girl Interrupted was pushing for Chuck to be commited

 

 

Ha and for some odd reason I always remember her as the "invisible girl"  in an early episode of Buffy the Vampire Slayer where she was also, in a sense, "committed" at the end of the episode.

 

I didn't think the nurse Mike was watching was his daughter. I thought it was a nurse who was taking care of an elder relative of Mike's who died. Mike feels she's responsible. There may have been a hearing that determined she was not responsible, but Mike still blames her and has periodically harassed her.

 

 

Just curious what made you think this?  It seemed to me, as a BB watcher, that she was supposed to be either his daughter or daughter-in-law, but I'm always curious as to where people come up with their theories.  

[DrSpaceman]

I'm still expecting Vince Gilligan to convince us it's all in his head and then turn around and have it be something else. If that is what's going on, maybe the physical trigger is an intermittent internal stimulus--like a metal tooth filling picking up radio signals, but not that.

Responded to this in the Chuck thread. 

[Milburn Stone]

This episode made me really feel for Chuck, instead of just finding him "interesting." And I give a lot of credit to Michael McKean for that. He's not just an excellent comic actor--he's an excellent actor.

 

One thing in particular I noticed in this ep. At times, his voice quality was uncannily like Bob Odenkirk's. There were moments when he was heard off-camera that I momentarily thought I was hearing Jimmy and not Chuck. And of course that makes sense if they are brothers. I believe McKean is actually attuning himself to Odenkirk's speech patterns and vocal sound so that he can create this similarity. Which blows me away.

[Dobian]

Sadly, at this point, Chuck may have been more scared of the Taser than the pistol. 

Yes, I was waiting for him to say, "Please, come in with just your guns!"

 

If I was Saul I would have a truckload of newspapers delivered to the old bitch across the street, piled up against her door so she couldn't get out of her house that way.