S30.E01: It's Survivor Warfare

[Guest]

So made some bad mistakes.  The bad lie.  The hunting for the idol right in front of someone else smarter about the game than she.  Outing her 'core four' alliance (or believed alliance) in the first tribal.  I'm bummed she's dating Malcolm.  

[susannot]

By that standard only two older men have ever won.  Bob Crowley was 57 and Tom Westman was 51 and one COULD make the argument that in each case they kind of got the win handed to them by a younger player (Bob by Sugar and Tom by Ian's surrender at the final immunity challenge).  I think the contestants are less sexist  anyway than Jeff.  The Survivors have voted thirteen female winners over the seasons but the only one that Jeff takes seriously is Parvati.  Ridiculous.

 

Sadly you are correct.  Will have to revise my standards for "older"downward.  Tina is now included as an "older" winner.  How old were Denise and Richard Hatch?

[peachmangosteen]

How old were Denise and Richard Hatch?

 

Denise was 41 and Richard was 39.

[Way Wes Jr]

This’ll be less “wall o’ text”-y than usual for a first episode; most of you have covered my main thoughts.  I think I have mentioned before that ninety minutes is optimal for the Season Opener, (and was wonderful for Amazing Race as well,) which helped generate the “great opener,” comments. [One hour doesn’t give us enough time to learn a large enough chunk of the players, and two hours would just start to drag...]  That being said, I still don’t have a good feel for forty percent of our castaways.

 

While I love that the challenge had decision points, and I hope that they continue the concept throughout the tribal phase, I don’t want to see the concept during individual immunity.  (Because, someone, somewhere, will complain that the producers are just trying to make things easier for whichever obvious Jiffy Pop “Man-crush” D-Bag is left.)

 

I loathe the attitudes, as seen in this episode, that invariably lead to people of certain ages and gender always being on the chopping block; but I can’t ignore that it always seems to happen.  Please (Carolyn, continue to,) prove me wrong!  Also, before the merge I rank players on how likely I think they are to make the merge, not how I see their overall position.  Onto the Rankings:

 

Nagarote (Red)

 

Three players get the bulk of the screen time, one gets some unavoidably, and two were invisible.  I presume production goads them into “collar-speak” during the talking heads, but I really despise them falling into the trap on their own.  (And this applies to all three tribes.)

 

1.  Joe.  Young, likeable, athletic, his only achilles heel is that he has an enemy he is unaware of.   I suspect Joe’ll come out on top of that conflict when it occurs.

2. Jenn.  See Joe’s comment above.  Verbatim, with appropriate gender pronoun and name switches.

3. Will.  Because, penis.

4. Hali.  Invisible young person, no penis.

5. Vince.  Ugh.  I don’t think I’ve turned 180 degrees on a contestant this fast.  “Coach”-lite beach dude morphed into scary stalker guy in less than twenty minutes.  I’m guessing that if this tribe goes to tribal before he attempts to boil the bunny, they’ll go after the stereotypical first boot first.  But if they go a couple of episodes without tribal ... hide the machete like you had a Hantz in your midst.

6. Nina.  Older, female, and “other.”  Might has well worn a t-shirt that said, “First Boot.”  Now it’s possible that she is working the social situation, (like Carolyn and Shirin,) and we didn’t see it, because the episode had to focus on Masaya, but if I can’t see it, I can’t predict it.

 

Escameca (Blue)

 

It feels like this tribe got less screen time than Nagarote, I really ought to rate these folk as a foursome - #5 - #6, but that’d be a cop out.  (I reserve the right to cop out in future rankings.)

 

1.  Sierra.  Mostly invisible, and either she or Kelly is the smartest one of this tribe.  It’s very likely that she was as much to blame for the “mean girls” treatment of Dan as Lindsey was shown to be - but the camera focused on Lindsey.  Just because she was wrong about the Honest/ Deceive trap, doesn’t mean she wasn’t thinking smartly about it.  (And for being the “big bag,” it was pretty small.)

2. Rodney.  Total tool, with a viable strategy of allying with the women.  His motives and logic for doing it are reprehensible, but falling back-assward into a good plan still leaves you in a good plan.  Plus, they’ll “need him for challenges.”

3. Lindsey.  Because this tribe has been shown to be 2-2-1-1, and she’s allied with Rodney.

4. Mike.  Box of hammers intellect, but “an asset for challenges.”

5. Kelly.  Invisible.  Older, but recognizes that she needs to let the 20-somethings have their freak flags fly.  I really hope I’m wrong here, and she and Sierra are running the show ala Kim and Chelsea.

6. Dan.  Older, with a bad social game.  Hopefully he tells Mike to steer clear and avoid his loser-stank.

 

Masaya (Yellow)

 

The “Brain ^H^H^H^H^H” “White Collar” tribe also grabbed their stereotypes with relish.  Carolyn, Max, and Shirin all talk like fans, and Tyler played his swing vote position down perfectly.  (Now, do Max and Tyler pull in Joaquin, who should be desperate, to blindside Carolyn?)  So may have talked at tribal as if there were solid alliances, but I could totally see this tribe being a true chaos-pot each “week.”

 

1. Carolyn.  She has the HII, and everyone knows it.  She managed to convince the majority to let her keep it, rather than let them flush it out.  She needs to pray that Masaya doesn’t see very many more tribals before a tribal shake-up, or the merge.  We saw her work the voting majority intelligently, perhaps with a touch of panic, but without desperation.

2. Max.  I suspect hubris will be his downfall, but with Joaquin theoretically on the chopping block, just being male is good pre-merge insurance.  Also, in a tribe that was presented as 3-2-1, he is one of the three.

3. Tyler.  Played his “deciding vote” position well, but needs to form a bond with Max fast.

4. Joaquin.  Caveat - only if they go to tribal within the next two episodes, because they’ll “need him for challenges.”  If they win a challenge or two before then, that usefulness will become expendable, like him, (as a television character.)

5. Shirin.  Probably worked the social game like a champ, as she wasn’t even discussed as a boot, even though she cost them the challenge.  But the narrative demanded Carolyn versus So, so we weren’t shown any footage to let us know anything about her.  Probably should be ranked #2, behind Max, but Carolyn’s having found the idol really messes everything up.

BYE. So.  She and Joaquin were poor liars, and poor idol hunters.  Probably had an Alpha fight with Carolyn that we weren’t shown, which meant she never had a chance to throw Joaquin under the bus.

[QuelleC]

I had no idea survivor started up again.  I 'll have to check hulu (ackk) for it but otherwise...

[KimberStormer]

Just a couple thoughts.  Unfortunately, since I live in a basement now, I can't get CBS via the airwaves, and my computer is so crummy that streaming is very poor.  I basically got a series of static shots for the last half the episode, so it was like a radio drama.  Harder to tell who is who, and no idea what the challenge was like at all, really.  (I did appreciate Jeff's play-by-play for once, though!)

 

I think if every dude who acted like Vince was a dangerous stalker, I'd be dead by now.  It may be, it may not be.  I do think he will try to vote Jenn out and rant for the rest of his Survivor life (exit interviews etc) about how untrustworthy and perfidious she is ("unfaithful", in his deluded mind.)  I do think she played it wrong with the "do you like him??" conversation, because even the rational part of his brain (whatever bit of it there is) could tell she was obviously lying.  Just say "yeah, he's cute and all, but I want to ally with you."  Anyway, to me the scary psycho guy is not Vince at all, but Rodney!  Terrifying!  Wants a "dumb girl alliance" just like Russell and for the same reasons but somehow with even less respect for them, I feel like, and using his dead sister to get women on his side??  Run away, run away!

 

Speaking of poor lying, obviously, So...even you knew it was a bad story.  I probably would have gone with some tried and true tale of "food or shelter", maybe "food or shelter or idol clue".  But I think she was the wrong one to go.  Joaquin is straight out of 80s movie villain casting, and a moron.  Get rid of him.  As for Carolyn, I'm a little surprised, I thought people didn't like easy-to-find idols.  Russell and Tony find them, it's producer manipulation, but Carolyn is just savvy and smart?  Maybe, I'd suggest, if Carolyn (who is obviously not the type that production would deign to help) can do it, those big bad overedited dudes can do it too, and it doesn't require having an intern gesturing at the ground just offscreen, or whatever.  Anyway, good for Carolyn for finding it, and for not going down without a fight, but the way she argues drives me up the wall.  It will be hard to get used to, if she goes all the way.  But I will try.

 

Both Sierra and Lindsey look incredibly familiar to me, but I don't know who they resemble.  It's going to take me awhile to decide who, if anyone, I'm rooting for.  We'll see, we'll see...

 

Of course it never occurs for girls to stick together on this show. What a shame.

 

Except when they do, like just last season, where they did it despite being in the minority from the get-go.

[SlackerInc]

I strongly suspect the vast majority of these contestants could just as easily be labeled any of the other two "collar" designations as the one they happened to be selected for. I doubt they even cast based on this gimmick.

 

I agree, but they could have made it a lot closer by swapping the law student for the "ex-assistant to a talent agent", who becomes "Hollywood slacker" (or whatever his current job is). 

 

Jenn could simply tell Vince she's not comfortable with his physical or romantic attention, which Amber also could've done.  They chose not to because it's a game advantage to have a moony-eyed ally wrapped around your finger.  

 

I stopped watching BB eons ago, but I think if Jenn had said that to Vince, he would have gone nuts on her and it would have been mutually destructive to their games.  IRL the really crazy stalkers say "if I can't have you, no one can" and pull the murder-suicide routine.  Vince may not be actually violent, but he can still do the Survivor equivalent in terms of their "life in this game" and get both their torches snuffed.

 

It does unfortunately look like Vince is going to be a problem anyway, but I just don't know what else Jenn could have done.

[peachmangosteen]

Except when they do, like just last season, where they did it despite being in the minority from the get-go.

 

Who is this referring to? I can't remember a female alliance from last year at all. I can only remember 2 in the whole show, the one from fans vs. faves, which was beautiful and my fave alliance ever, and I guess there was one in the men vs. women season, but I don't think it really counts due to the premise.

[NutMeg]

Mentally remove Vince's hair and feathers and to me he looks like Adam Levine's long lost twin (so whoever called him a "maroon" earlier in the thread was spot on!).

 

The fact that the Animals video depicts a very creepy stalker might be influencing me somehow, but I don't see Vince as a warm and caring individual :-)

 

Otherwise, I thought So's eviction was very satifying and made more sense than Joaquin' would have been, as she seemed to be more actively campaigning/more dangerous than him.

 

The cast seem more diverse and interesting, and self-proclaimed fans of the show are actually backing it up (knowing to learn to make fire, knowing to look for unusual trees or other landmarks for idol locations, knowing not to step up as leaders, etc.)

 

The options offered to players in challenges or "reward" are a very nice way to shake things up.

 

Yeah, the show is back! Can't believe I waited 24 hours to watch the episode... 

[Wings]

A problem I see with Vince is trying to ruin Jen's game.  Now, they clearly see he is a bit nuts, so they would not necessarily fall for lies he might tell, but the possibility is there.  We may see him try.  And, for sure, he will pester her, no end.  

[himela]

I personally don't see anything stalkerish or creepy about Vince's behavior other than being kind of out of the ordinary. We are used to see people the first day saying "I feel a good vibe from this person / I find them likeable etc so I will try to be in an alliance with them". Vince said "There's something about Jenn that makes me feel secure and comfortable, so I'll try to be her a) ally b) friend". I don't see something weird in that. There are some people (me included) who search for heart friends, if you know what I mean, and not only acquaintances or friends to have fun with. I'd never hang out with someone more than socially needed unless I was feeling this vibe of potentially being a person I'd feel close to. Does this sound creepy to some people? Maybe. But that's how I am and that's how I operate in life. There is a 50% chance Vince is oversentimental and overly romantic and 50% chance he is just a freak who will show his true colors sooner than later. What makes me sad is that the first chance isn't an option to anyone's mind. Are we people so much detached from out feelings? Isn't it possible that Vince (and all Vinces in the world) saw something in Jenn's (and all Jenns' in the world) heart that he liked? Why are we being so suspicious right away?

 

Maybe next week Vince kills someone with the machete so what I say here makes no sense whatsoever, I was just using this example to speak more generally. Maybe I'm just a hopeless romantic who doesn't want to think badly of someone with the first signs. Or maybe I'm just a fool, I don't know :P

Edited February 28, 2015 by himela

[KimberStormer]

Who is this referring to? I can't remember a female alliance from last year at all. I can only remember 2 in the whole show, the one from fans vs. faves, which was beautiful and my fave alliance ever, and I guess there was one in the men vs. women season, but I don't think it really counts due to the premise.

 

Responding in the past seasons thread

Edited February 28, 2015 by KimberStormer

[Guest]

Who is this referring to? I can't remember a female alliance from last year at all. I can only remember 2 in the whole show, the one from fans vs. faves, which was beautiful and my fave alliance ever, and I guess there was one in the men vs. women season, but I don't think it really counts due to the premise.

The final 3 were all female, and Baylor was 5th. I do recall Missy and Jaclyn helping serve Natalie's agenda at various turns, and Natalie won.  

[Alapaki]

I personally don't see anything stalkerish or creepy about Vince's behavior other than being kind of out of the ordinary. We are used to see people the first day saying "I feel a good vibe from this person / I find them likeable etc so I will try to be in an alliance with them". Vince said "There's something about Jenn that makes me feel secure and comfortable, so I'll try to be her a) ally b) friend". I don't see something weird in that.

My problem with Vince's behavior wasn't his over-the-top macking on Jenn, but his insistence that she prove her "loyalty" by hugging him.

A problem I see with Vince is trying to ruin Jen's game. Now, they clearly see he is a bit nuts, so they would not necessarily fall for lies he might tell, but the possibility is there. We may see him try. And, for sure, he will pester her, no end.

The thing you most want to avoid early in the game is becoming the target of an outspoken player and running the risk of the Tribe deciding that they have to get rid of one of you to restore peace.

And the fact that the player targeting you is a jerk doesn't necessarily protect you. The Tribe may decide that person is a good Goat worth keeping around.

Edited February 28, 2015 by Alapaki

[Mabinogia]

The warning flag for me, with Vince, was his mellow freak-out that Jenn seemed to like Joe. I knew a guy who had a similar reaction to me showing interest in someone else and I was like "dude, we're not dating, I don't even like you so step off". That was the vibe I got from Vince. He'd marked his territory, Jenn, and was marking it again by challenging her feelings for Joe when she has a right to be friendly to anyone she wants, whether she and Vince are an alliance, a couple or friends. It wasn't his instant connection with Jenn that bugged, but his reaction to her having interest in anyone but him. Creeper!!!

 

I have no feel for the blue tribe right now. Couldn't name a single one or pick them out of a lineup. I thought they'd be my favorite team, the relatable ones, salt of the earth and all that, but I got nothing. So far I like Jenn and Joe of the nocollar tribe (yellow? I forget their color already) and Carolyn and bearded guy from the white collar. Can't stand Joquin on sight and the fat one in the speedo just for visual reasons.

[SlackerInc]

There is a 50% chance Vince is oversentimental and overly romantic and 50% chance he is just a freak who will show his true colors sooner than later. What makes me sad is that the first chance isn't an option to anyone's mind. Are we people so much detached from out feelings? Isn't it possible that Vince (and all Vinces in the world) saw something in Jenn's (and all Jenns' in the world) heart that he liked? Why are we being so suspicious right away?

I would cosign what Mabinogia said right below your post; but I would add that for me at least, it's not just about being suspicious or thinking there is some clue to future bad behavior in what we have seen. It's that what we have already seen is not okay. Not with me, anyway. He could back off now and do nothing to her the rest of the show and I would be glad he backed off--but I wouldn't say "oh I guess I misinterpreted his behavior". Because he has already acted in a not-okay way.

And frankly, it is disturbing to me to think that people would see what he has done and chalk it up to being "romantic" as opposed to being a desperately insecure and aggressively possessive creeper. If this is the way you act "romantically" toward people you are interested in, I strongly suggest you stop. It's fine for people to get really romantic and hung up on each other, as long as it is totally mutual. But when it is expressed in insecurity and possessiveness and grilling someone about their interactions with other people, that is never okay.

Edited February 28, 2015 by SlackerInc

[Guest]

It makes me wonder if I missed something Vince did.  He was jealous of her talking to Joe, asked if she was attracted to him and hugged her too long.  Was there more?  

 

I listed to Rob's podcast.  Some interesting tidbits-

 

So recognized Max from the Survivor 'family'.  I guess because he taught a class about it, he goes to the parties?   I have no idea.  He's a PhD but billed as a 'media consultant' now?  I don't know what he taught, subject-wise.  

 

So sounded a little bitter about being on a tribe of six, and felt she and Joaquin were the black sheep for being younger and were destined to go first.  Hm.  Yet she still volunteered to go off with him on day one.  Fishy.  She said she thought in a season with two tribes of 10 she would've done better.  Or maybe last season specifically.  Not sure.

 

She didn't like Carolyn from the pre-show stuff because she wore different outfits (a suit to one, a tie-dye casual outfit to another) so she thought she'd be wishy washy.  Also 'hm'.  

 

She shared the idol clue with Shirin.  She also said given the chance to do it over she would've shared it with the whole tribe instead of lying.  So I guess it was either an option or she believes it was.  

 

 

[PreBabylonia]

it looks like next week there's a woman sporting a bra, but naked form the waist down.  Why bother with the bra?

 

Because a bra gives you support for running or anything requiring athletic skills. Especially necessary if you're well-endowed.

I personally don't see anything stalkerish or creepy about Vince's behavior other than being kind of out of the ordinary. We are used to see people the first day saying "I feel a good vibe from this person / I find them likeable etc so I will try to be in an alliance with them". Vince said "There's something about Jenn that makes me feel secure and comfortable, so I'll try to be her a) ally b) friend". I don't see something weird in that. There are some people (me included) who search for heart friends, if you know what I mean, and not only acquaintances or friends to have fun with. I'd never hang out with someone more than socially needed unless I was feeling this vibe of potentially being a person I'd feel close to. Does this sound creepy to some people? Maybe. But that's how I am and that's how I operate in life. There is a 50% chance Vince is oversentimental and overly romantic and 50% chance he is just a freak who will show his true colors sooner than later. What makes me sad is that the first chance isn't an option to anyone's mind. Are we people so much detached from out feelings? Isn't it possible that Vince (and all Vinces in the world) saw something in Jenn's (and all Jenns' in the world) heart that he liked? Why are we being so suspicious right away?

 

 A too-long hug is a sign of a socially inept individual at best (certainly someone you wouldn't want to ally with unless you were looking for a goat), and combined with grilling her about her relationship with Joe, is a big red flag that this person is extending your show alliance to a personal, probably romantic connection. I don't know about you, but I believe that relationships have to evolve more naturally, if they're going to work on any level at all. It's a sign of someone being totally oblivious to social conventions (and no, that's not a sign of being unconventional or "no collar.") I've felt similar turnoffs after encountering someone that violates my body space by standing too close, or divulges personal information too quickly. The fact that they are of opposite genders, are both young and appear to be straight adds a little bit of inbalance. All women have to be cautious if they're dealing with a physically fit male with seemingly no barriers. Vince is potentially dangerous. Although likely to be entertaining this season, for the viewers. Depending on how real that threat is....

[ProfCrash]

So and her sister were suppose to play last season but were pulled when her sister failed a medical exam of some unknown sort at the last minute. Natalie and Nadyia have both said they saw So last season and were planning to try and ally with her because they would have been the only other all woman/minority alliance. Given that Nadyia tried to put together a womans alliance, I can see that she would have tried to ally with So or So's sister.

So does think that a larger tribe gives you more oppertunities to make alliances and hide. She is right, but that is not the game she played. She told a crap lie, was caught, and didn't have the ability to turn it on Jauquin. I do think that she is upset that she was out there for two seasons and lasted three days.

As for Vince, if he approached a woman in the work place the way he did Jenn, HR would fire him. His behavior, especially to Joe interigation and hug, was sexual harrasment. Jenn can tell him to stop but she shouldn't have to. That is the point. His demeanor and approach freaks me out. Because Survivor is a game without those same rules, he continues to play. That does not change the fact that he is harrassing Jenn and his overall demeaner is concerning.

[RedheadZombie]

Because a bra gives you support for running or anything requiring athletic skills. Especially necessary if you're well-endowed.

 

Somehow this makes it even worse, in my mind.  So this woman is cognizant of supporting her breasts whilst being athletic, but is willing to sit/squat/run/whatever - naked from the waist down.  There's all kinds of things scrawling around out there. 

[lchal]

This may have been discussed,so excuse me if it had but what (if anyone knows) is the story with Rods sister and him finding her. It sounded like she had been murdered they way he described it. I searched but did not find any info out. Unless I have his name wrong. Anyone know? Thanks!

[SusieQZie]

Just got around to watching this tonight. I haven't watched in years, but this one I think I will stick around for.

When Vince first came on my screen, my mom and I both said "Its Fabio. That bird that hit him that one time is still tangled in his hair!"

Edited March 1, 2015 by SusieQZie

[choclatechip45]

 

So recognized Max from the Survivor 'family'.  I guess because he taught a class about it, he goes to the parties?   I have no idea.  He's a PhD but billed as a 'media consultant' now?  I don't know what he taught, subject-wise.

He was Film/TV Professor at Northwestern who taught a class on Survivor. I know he had a bunch of former Survivors visit his class  one time because they shared a bunch of behind the scenes info and it was written up on some websites. I remember reading the article, but had no idea  who the professor was.

Edited March 1, 2015 by choclatechip45

[Kromm]

It makes me wonder if I missed something Vince did.  He was jealous of her talking to Joe, asked if she was attracted to him and hugged her too long.  Was there more?

You're one of several posters I've seen who's been totally baffled by the descriptions from others of Vince as creepy stalkerish, and I think there's been a common disconnect. I think a lot of people didn't connect the guy who went off into the forest with Jenn and pushed her into alliance talk with the guy who LATER had feathers in his hair. He changed his look between the two segments, so I don't think everyone processed that it was the same guy.

During the first incident we heard her say in her Talking Head (as well as saw her body language during the whole incident), where she emoted how she didn't want to brush him off that aggressively, but found the whole thing weird. It was his total inability to read what I think she was fairly clearly showing with her body language, and the odd intensity of his talking about their connection, that was the first red flag moreso than the odd hug. Verbally her responses to him were fairly non-committal, although I've read at least a few rants about her "leading him on" (which... well... that would only apply if we, like Vince, are mixing up game alliances with guy/girl stuff).

Then during the bit where she's flirting with Joe, we see Vince act like the girl is cheating on some deep connection between them, rather than continuing to hedge on a conversation she reluctantly had with him only a day or two earlier. All I can say is that I hope Joe didn't find a rattlesnake in his bed that night, or that Jenn didn't find Vince constantly lurking a few feet away from her constantly after that.

The biggest sign of all, I think, is that even if there are many who totally aren't "getting" the stalker vibe (again, maybe if they thought he was two different people) there are also tons of people who independent of each other all saw the same thing. That's certainly not enough to "prove" anything, but we have these instincts as a species for a reason, and that many independent eyes seeing the same thing probably means something. Admittedly editing (and especially voiceovers/talking heads) may be contributing, but I don't think what we saw looked chopped up enough (or the voiceovers/talking heads producer-steered enough) to be creating this from nothing. At the very least, Vince is a socially awkward guy with tendencies that can easily be READ as obsessive, even if he might in the real world fall on the side of that where he'd eventually realize he was creeping out a girl and willingly back off (trust me, most guys who aren't super-woman magnets have had at least one girl who they EVENTUALLY got that kind of brush off with, where it took longer than it should have for them to "get" it--the difference is how you take it when you realize the rejection is happening).

Edited March 1, 2015 by Kromm

[fishcakes]

This may have been discussed,so excuse me if it had but what (if anyone knows) is the story with Rods sister and him finding her. It sounded like she had been murdered they way he described it. I searched but did not find any info out. Unless I have his name wrong. Anyone know? Thanks!

 

In this interview, he says she appears to have died of a drug overdose. The story's a little bit different from the one he told on the show though. Based on what he told his tribemate, I also thought he was suggesting she was murdered.

Edited March 1, 2015 by fishcakes

[Guest]

Thanks, Kromm, I did know who Vince was throughout and I did find him creepy in a way but nothing to me suggested he was actually dangerous, torpedoing her game, sexually harassing her or 'he'd definitely not take no for an answer'.  For all we know, maybe he wasn't even jealous, maybe he just didn't want to be allied with a girl with a 'thing' going with a guy outside their alliance.  Maybe he's just a too-long-hugger with everyone who lets him.  I just don't think the 60 seconds or so we saw of him really tells us much, besides the story they want us to spin in our minds, of course.  

[wonald]

We saw more than "60 seconds" of Vince's creepiness. Jenn even says to him that he is "freaking" her out.

 

Ultimately, we can only go by what the show wants us to think and the show wants us to think that there is something creepy about Vince. Just like they wanted us to think Brandon was creepy.

 

I do not enjoy either on my screen and can't wait for Vince to be #bliindsided.

[Kromm]

Ultimately, we can only go by what the show wants us to think and the show wants us to think that there is something creepy about Vince. Just like they wanted us to think Brandon was creepy.

That implies Brandon WASN'T actually creepy?

Maybe not in the same way as Vince, but I don't see how editing created Brandon seeming to be this weird unstable personality we got onscreen.

[wonald]

 

That implies Brandon WASN'T actually creepy?

 

It does?

Well, I found Brandon creepy. Shrug. YMMV.

[Kromm]

It does?

Well, I found Brandon creepy. Shrug. YMMV.

"they wanted us to think" is a phrase that usually means the person typing it disagrees.  I can see that it doesn't HAVE to mean that, but it's pretty strongly implied.

[KayElektra]

Am I the only one that noticed that the Survivor editing monkeys had Carolyn's title as "COPORATE EXEC" the whole time?

 

It could be I'm the only one that reads their "job titles", but c'mon, CBS.

[cooksdelight]

"So, how do you spell your name, exactly?"

OMG, I would die laughing if someone actually had the balls to lean over and ask someone that just before they go to vote. I think Probst would be laughing right along with me.

[Zahdii]

I once posted on TWoP that the producers should provide all teams with a flag, or have them create one before the first task.  And have everyone sign their name on the edges of the flag, just in case.  Then we'd get footage of someone saying to someone else "I can't read it.  So just how do you spell your name?"  Paranoia would set in instantly.

Edited March 1, 2015 by Zahdii

[BigRedCheese]

Ozzie did ask Cochran how to spell his name one time, it freaked Cochran out.

[BigRedCheese]

 

we can only go by what the show wants us to think and the show wants us to think that there is something creepy about Vince. Just like they wanted us to think Brandon was creepy.

 

Brandon went far beyond creepy, which even extended to his after show interviews, helpfully letting us all know that he wasn't having sex with his Uncle Russell, gee thanks for putting that image out there Brandon.

 

Vince definitely comes across as weird and creepy, but not on the level of Brandon Hantz, at least not yet. I suppose there could be footage of him saying to the camera, "hey, just for the heck of it, I'm going to act like a real nut, get weirdly possessive of a girl I just met, and then ask for a hug, and make that hug last for a really uncomfortable amount of time, I mean, I don't even know this girl." That would still be creepy though. Of course, he still hasn't voted out a girl, that hasn't shown any romantic interest in him at all, because he's afraid she might somehow come between him and his wife, like Brandon did. As creepy as he seems, Vince has a long way to go before he reaches the Brandon Hantz level of creep factor. 

Edited March 1, 2015 by BigRedCheese

[peachmangosteen]

As for Vince, if he approached a woman in the work place the way he did Jenn, HR would fire him. His behavior, especially to Joe interigation and hug, was sexual harrasment. Jenn can tell him to stop but she shouldn't have to. That is the point. His demeanor and approach freaks me out. Because Survivor is a game without those same rules, he continues to play. That does not change the fact that he is harrassing Jenn and his overall demeaner is concerning.

 

Thanks for this. This is exactly how I feel, especially the bold part,  and you expressed it much more eloquently than I could.

 

I really hope Vince goes early because I do not want a full season of his weird behavior and a love triangle.

Edited March 1, 2015 by peachmangosteen

[ProfCrash]

My workplace has abit of a problem with sexual harrasment so there is lots and lots and lots of training. Think lots of guys who served in the various branches on the special operations teams. Good guys but their humor is off color and they are not used to working with women a ton. They respond well when you tell them to stop but many women are not comfortable saying stop when they are out numbered. The last meeting I attended on the subject was attended by 31 men and 2 women.

I have not seen anything approaching Vince levels but have told the guys to tone it down before.

Men and women have diiferent filters and respond differently based on biology and social conditioning. I suspect Vince sells coconuts because he has struggled to fit into socities norms more then out of a personal choice. His approach to dealing with Jenn suggests to me that he doesn't understand personal boundaries. It would be perfect harrasment training material.

[SlackerInc]

Men and women have diiferent filters and respond differently based on biology and social conditioning.

Yeah, I am a man myself so it's not like all men would see his behavior as being okay. But it would surprise me greatly if any of those defending him were female.

[himela]

Yeah, I am a man myself so it's not like all men would see his behavior as being okay. But it would surprise me greatly if any of those defending him were female.

Well I am female and I am saying that I can kind of understand how he is thinking, at least so far. I watched again the way he was looking at Jenn when he was interviewd saying that she makes him feel secure and confident and I didn't see anything creepy. I only translated it as an overly sensitive person who felt a vibe with this girl and maybe a romantic connection. He proceeded telling her that he wants to be her ally and friend, she agrees and encourages him to his face but on her interview she is making fun of him, and next thing you know she starts flirting with another guy. Well in my eyes she is not that innocent herself. I can admit Vince is the clingy type of guy, but this word is really subjective imo. I've been called clingy in my life while the only thing I want is to show my love to someone. In my opinion people have become much too intolerant to out of the ordinary behaviors. I would give this person a chance and I would not lie to his face and mock him afterwards.

[ratgirlagogo]

 

I would give this person a chance and I would not lie to his face and mock him afterwards.

You certainly wouldn't need to mock him in a confessional but if you couldn't lie to his face you wouldn't last long in the game of Survivor.

 

 

What the heck was that big gray colored dead carcas that those birds were eating?

Looked like a wild pig to me.

[Dewey Decimate]

There are a lot of hazards and indignities you must expect to face when you sign up for Survivor. Chronic sunburns, weird insect bites, dealing with tragically off-kilter personalities, possibly serious physical injury, dramatic weight loss, shitting and pissing in the woods, and so on. Having to handle a character like Vince is something a woman might be faced with in this game. I didn't see Jen leading him on, but, yes: having a moon-eyed man in your pocket could certainly be an asset. I don't think Vince is sweetly and romantically into her, though; to me it came off as possessiveness. Yup, she had options: decline his hug and advances in a polite (or impolite) way, thereby rejecting him and quite probably making her Vince's target. (And everyone's looking for an easy vote early in the game.) Or she can go along with it, making close physical contact with his body in order to possibly get further in the game. Many other players have had to make awkward choices to stay.

 

The aspect of this situation that makes me rage, though, is that it seems to be something that only happens to women. I've watched EVERY episode of Survivor (fine with that) and every episode of BB (ashamed of that) and I cannot recall a SINGLE incidence of this "forced-flirt-to-stay-in-the-competition" involving a man as the recipient of unwanted attention, as the one who has to give in to strategically remain in the game. Sure, female contestants have obsessed over male contestants (the BB-winter-season-that-shall-not-be-named comes to mind), but has there ever been a time in which it put the guy's game in jeopardy? Women are already targeted from the get-go as "weak" players, and then a few get saddled with this somewhat scary Hantz/Caleb/Vince conundrum. I think it's pretty damn shitty for a woman to become an early target simply because a man a few nuggets short of a happy meal turns his gaze on her. It ALREADY takes so little for a female player to be targeted ("she's a bitch/too loud/bossy/old/flirty/weak"); how wonderful that there's yet another way a man can put the spotlight on a woman who may have done absolutely nothing to deserve it.

 

There are plenty of non-gender-specific ways to separate someone from the group and vote him or her out. I love a good blindside, snarky personal comments, and alliance meltdowns. When it's based on sex (or race, sexual orientation, or the like) however, the entertainment value declines tremendously.

[Drogo]

Vince needed to know whether Jenn liked him best or not. As a coconut vendor he seeks truth. He was very upfront about that.

[Guest]

There are a lot of hazards and indignities you must expect to face when you sign up for Survivor. Chronic sunburns, weird insect bites, dealing with tragically off-kilter personalities, possibly serious physical injury, dramatic weight loss, shitting and pissing in the woods, and so on. Having to handle a character like Vince is something a woman might be faced with in this game. I didn't see Jen leading him on, but, yes: having a moon-eyed man in your pocket could certainly be an asset. I don't think Vince is sweetly and romantically into her, though; to me it came off as possessiveness. Yup, she had options: decline his hug and advances in a polite (or impolite) way, thereby rejecting him and quite probably making her Vince's target. (And everyone's looking for an easy vote early in the game.) Or she can go along with it, making close physical contact with his body in order to possibly get further in the game. Many other players have had to make awkward choices to stay.

 

The aspect of this situation that makes me rage, though, is that it seems to be something that only happens to women. I've watched EVERY episode of Survivor (fine with that) and every episode of BB (ashamed of that) and I cannot recall a SINGLE incidence of this "forced-flirt-to-stay-in-the-competition" involving a man as the recipient of unwanted attention, as the one who has to give in to strategically remain in the game. Sure, female contestants have obsessed over male contestants (the BB-winter-season-that-shall-not-be-named comes to mind), but has there ever been a time in which it put the guy's game in jeopardy? Women are already targeted from the get-go as "weak" players, and then a few get saddled with this somewhat scary Hantz/Caleb/Vince conundrum. I think it's pretty damn shitty for a woman to become an early target simply because a man a few nuggets short of a happy meal turns his gaze on her. It ALREADY takes so little for a female player to be targeted ("she's a bitch/too loud/bossy/old/flirty/weak"); how wonderful that there's yet another way a man can put the spotlight on a woman who may have done absolutely nothing to deserve it.

 

There are plenty of non-gender-specific ways to separate someone from the group and vote him or her out. I love a good blindside, snarky personal comments, and alliance meltdowns. When it's based on sex (or race, sexual orientation, or the like) however, the entertainment value declines tremendously.

 

I haven't watched all seasons but I can't recall a woman getting sent home because she discouraged a male player's romantic advances.  

 

I do recall many women getting deeper into the game by getting one or more of the men to feel some interest or protectiveness of her.  

[Drogo]

As a man, I felt Vince was going too hard.  Not stalker hard, just too hard for Jenn to ever want to sleep with him. 

 

As a woman (to the best of my knowledge), my wife felt Vince's affections were sweet.  She also argued that both men and women have a right to cut to the chase and ask if there's interest there or not before they find themselves too far in.  If it hurts his game, it's his problem. 

 

If you're wondering, our courting went like this:

Me:  "I'm really into you and I'd like to take you out."

Her:  "Good.  I'll get my coat."

[peachmangosteen]

Sure, female contestants have obsessed over male contestants (the BB-winter-season-that-shall-not-be-named comes to mind), but has there ever been a time in which it put the guy's game in jeopardy?

 

I would say the closet I've ever seen was Amanda/McCrae in BB16, but that is the only one that remotely fits. And I completely agree with your whole post.

 

Hopefully No Collar loses the next IC and votes out Vince so we won't have to discuss this anymore!

[Way Wes Jr]

Vince needed to know whether Jenn liked him best or not. As a coconut vendor he seeks truth. He was very upfront about that.

Thank you for the laugh.

 

I would say the closet I've ever seen was Amanda/McCrae in BB16, but that is the only one that remotely fits. And I completely agree with your whole post.

 

Hopefully No Collar loses the next IC and votes out Vince so we won't have to discuss this anymore!

 

Good comparison peach, I think McCrae was in a dangerous position in regards to Amanda.

 

Any chance that folk could move the Vince: Sweet or Stalker? discussion to his thread?

[Special K]

Maybe this is too rational a way of looking at things, but in the So/Joaquin decision about the honest and deceive beans (and FTR, I hate HATE that one of those is an adjective and the other is a verb):  

 

Maybe they should have factored into their decision whether they could actually get away with lying.  I mean, if you don't feel like you can pull it off, maybe since it's, you know, the first day of the game, the more prudent approach would be to choose the honest bag o' beans?  There is hardly ever a reason to make a risky move this early in the game.

[Wings]

Maybe this is too rational a way of looking at things, but in the So/Joaquin decision about the honest and deceive beans (and FTR, I hate HATE that one of those is an adjective and the other is a verb):  

 

Maybe they should have factored into their decision whether they could actually get away with lying.  I mean, if you don't feel like you can pull it off, maybe since it's, you know, the first day of the game, the more prudent approach would be to choose the honest bag o' beans?  There is hardly ever a reason to make a risky move this early in the game.

 

 

That is what the blue team members did and their tribe didn't believe them!  

 

So sounded a little bitter about being on a tribe of six, and felt she and Joaquin were the black sheep for being younger and were destined to go first.  Hm.

 

 

I am with you on the, Hm.  This rarely happens; the old generally go first.  Is she saying that Joaquin goes early, too?  Hm.

[SlackerInc]

That is what the blue team members did and their tribe didn't believe them!

Yes, and I had a feeling that was a danger while I was watching. Perhaps intentionally, the PTB made the "Honest" (and I to bemoan the lack of parallelism between "Honest" and "Deceive") bag of beans not all that impressively full--although the other one was so small as to just be no reasonable choice at all.

I still think the smart play there is to choose "Honest" but then deceive. (Even smarter, of course, is not to put onesself in the position of being one of those two people in the first place.)

[wonald]

 

So sounded a little bitter about being on a tribe of six, and felt she and Joaquin were the black sheep for being younger and were destined to go first.  Hm.

 

 

It made me go Hmm because she is freakin 30, not 21. Shirin is also 30. Tyler is 32/33. So that makes 4 out of the 6 (the majority) in their late 20s/early 30s. She sounded delusional and bitter in her exit interviews. Good riddance.