S30: Vince Sly

[Donny Ketchum]

Hi.  Anyone else think I kinda look like a younger version of Coach?  Or think I'll probably be just as annoying?

[Hera]

I'm not sure about the Coach resemblance, but I do love that his occupation is "coconut vendor". Also, I don't think we've seen anyone with hair that remarkable since Shambo.

[CletusMusashi]

I've been watching their videos first and then coming here afterwards. And, yeah, halfway through the video I was wondering if he was Coach's nephew. Either that or he's a bastard son of The Most Interesting Man in The World and some shampoo model.

In and of himself, I had a hard time figuring him out. At first he seemed like somebody who is smarter than they seem to be, if that sentence made any sense. But as the humble boasts piled up higher and higher and higher, my bullshit meter started to go off, and I started to wonder if he had any idea what he sounds like. Yet I might actually like him. As long as he provides decent gameplay (without voting off all the female eye candy, please,) and interesting interviews, then I can forgive a few tall tales. Hey, I might even enjoy listening to them.

Someone could even collect all his stories and write a book about them. "See Vince Sly. Lie, Vince, lie..."

Edited February 22, 2015 by CletusMusashi

[Lamb18]

Speaking of Dr. Seuss (in someone's post under another contestant):

Can Vince lie in a hut?

Can Vince lie with a coconut?

Can Vince lie to his tribe?

Can Vince lie with no bribe?

Can Vince lie with shiny long hair?

Yes, Vince can lie anywhere!

(Of course, I have no idea if Vince is a liar or not. We'll find out soon.)

[EverCat]

Coconut Vendor Vince for the win! Except going by my previous predictions (except for Sandra and Brian), it can only mean he will be voted off first.

[sadiegirl]

I hope he is voted off first.  So far, I'm finding him very annoying.

[LiveFromKevin]

Yikes, just yikes.

[Jobiska]

The jealousy and the demand for a hug...ugh, just ugh.  May he go soon.

[Gweilo]

Between him and John Travolta at the Oscars, I've had my fill of creepy men with questionable hair trying to touch women inappropriately.

[cooksdelight]

He's already got an IMDB profile. If he's not an actor, he's an actor wannabe.

[ProfCrash]

uggghhhh I think the feathers in his hair are some secret language and spells out stalker. He is just all sorts of wrong

[fuzzed]

He was giving off a strong Silence of the Lambs Buffalo Bill vibe.

[jenrising]

Somehow Coach and Brandon Hantz had a baby, and here he is. Ugh.

[scowl]

He's not very good at "human to human" interactions. 

[Special K]

He's not very good at "human to human" interactions. 

 

You mean he's better at "human to coconut" interactions?  :)

[Kromm]

Wow.

Psycho much, Vince?

[Donny Ketchum]

Somehow Coach and Brandon Hantz had a baby, and here he is. Ugh.

Coach's appearance and Brandon's crazy.  Terrible mix.

[Miss Scarlet]

Run, Jenn, run!!!!

[Kromm]

Run, Jenn, run!!!!

He exhibits a lot of obsessive/stalker behavior, so yeah...

It usually ends badly with these guys. Inevitably the object of the obsession disappoints them, and they turn on them. Frankly we saw the beginnings of it in almost record time with this guy.

[Miss Scarlet]

I was so uncomfortable watching his interaction with Jenn from the safety of my own home. I can't even imagine how creepy it must have been on the island. 

[Tryangle]

I thought at first he was that guy from Couples Retreat who was doing the touchy-feely yoga with the ladies.

 

Creepster vibe level: 1000.

 

A bit of a shame, because I liked the "coconut vendor" job title - heck, on Survivor that's actually a more useful skill than what most people are bringing to the game

Edited February 27, 2015 by Tryangle

[cooksdelight]

Is Sly his real name? Or his stage name?

[kakiphony]

I see less Coach and more younger, hotter Nicke Nolte Gary Busey...

Edited February 27, 2015 by kakiphony

[millennium]

Supposedly he sells coconuts on the beach.

 

"Thank you, ma'am, for buying my fresh and humble coconut.   I hesitate ... but I need to ask you a question.   A human, human question.  Earlier today I saw you purchase an orange from another vendor.   Do you feel yourself drawn more to the orange vendor than me?   Because I really thought I sensed something there.   Between you and the orange vendor, I mean.   A connection, a frisson, call it what you will, but it was there.   I really think I need some reassurance.   Oh my God, hug me.   Hug me and never let go ..."

[seacliffsal]

Just so creepy and with an entitled air about him.  I think he's suffering from both the 'special snowflake' syndrome as well as the about to turn into a stalker syndrome.  I know that many of us are concerned about Jenn, but I'm also concerned about Joe as Vince probably sees him as the obstacle to not only his true love but his true destiny (to be the favored leader of the tribe...).  I think Survivor can often lead to paranoia in the game (are they going to vote me out?  does she like Joe better than me?) but in his case it may happen even faster.  I hope that he is just interesting to watch and not dangerous.  

[scowl]

Just so creepy and with an entitled air about him.  I think he's suffering from both the 'special snowflake' syndrome as well as the about to turn into a stalker syndrome. 

 

That should lead to a "They don't understand me! No one understands me!" breakdown. 

[Gianthambeast]

Hopefully, a Tyson-like figure will emerge to dispense some home truths when Vince has his breakdown:

 

"Dude, don't wear feathers in your hair..."

 

"Dude, don't tell stories about your coconut-selling prowess--people just laugh at you..."

[Kromm]

Yeah, but Coach, when he seemed creepy, just seemed to be a kind of cult-leader middle aged crazy. Which is bad enough, but not particularly focused on one person.

Vince just comes off like a classic stalker. Which to be fair may be being skewed by editing, but what we DID see was pretty damning.

[Calamity Jane]

It astounds me a little how many people are defending this guy's behavior as within acceptable norms.  Normal people do not behave this way.  If you want to understand why he's scary, read The Gift of Fear.  He went way over a bunch of lines in really frightening ways.  It's not "romantic," it's not even acceptable.  Women are just conditioned to accept overstepping by males, to their own detriment and often to their peril.  Even if he isn't dangerous, he is operating the way extremely dangerous people do, and he should not be given a pass for it. 

[BK1978]

Is Sly his real name? Or his stage name?

 

I was actually coming in here to ask the same question.  That cannot be a real last name...can it?

 

 

It astounds me a little how many people are defending this guy's behavior as within acceptable norms.  Normal people do not behave this way.  If you want to understand why he's scary, read The Gift of Fear.  He went way over a bunch of lines in really frightening ways.  It's not "romantic," it's not even acceptable.  Women are just conditioned to accept overstepping by males, to their own detriment and often to their peril.  Even if he isn't dangerous, he is operating the way extremely dangerous people do, and he should not be given a pass for it. 

 

I have yet to come across anyone who has defended him but there are always some folks who will stand up for people that do wrong things.  The racist chick from Big Brother had her defenders so reading you say that there are people that are defending him does not shock me. 

[KimberStormer]

Yeah, but Coach, when he seemed creepy, just seemed to be a kind of cult-leader middle aged crazy. Which is bad enough, but not particularly focused on one person.

Vince just comes off like a classic stalker. Which to be fair may be being skewed by editing, but what we DID see was pretty damning.

Coach was pretty creepy towards Candace in a very similar way, really. And later towards Sierra. While these days I don't think Coach would hurt a fly, at the time it was pretty scary.

I don't mean to defend Vince, if I've given that impression. I just think that other dude (Rodney?) is far far scarier.

[Donny Ketchum]

I have yet to come across anyone who has defended him but there are always some folks who will stand up for people that do wrong things.

Actually, @himela and @Winston9-DT3 are doing so in the episode thread.  And pretty pathetically, I might add.

Edited March 5, 2015 by Donny Ketchum

[ProfCrash]

Different people see things differently and it is an editted tv show so we only see what we see. I am highly uncomfortable with what I have seen. They are not condoning his behavior but saying it is not as bad as others see it. Robb C has blown off the behavior as well on Rob Has a Podcast.

[peachmangosteen]

Actually, @himela and @Winston9-DT3 are doing so in the episode thread.

 

This has nothing to do with the topic at hand, but how are you getting the @ mentions? I keep trying to do them and they never work!

 

I think Vince is pretty creepy, but I do agree with you, KimberStormer that Rodney is way scarier. There is literally no doubt in my mind he's at least borderline misogynistic, while I think Vince is more just run-of-the-mill weird and possessive.

Edited March 1, 2015 by peachmangosteen

[fishcakes]

See, I think Rodney is more of a posturing idiot but (probably) harmless, whereas I find Vince to be truly scary. If a woman rejects Rodney, I could see him calling her a bitch a few times and moving on, but if a woman rejects Vince, I think he'd drive past her house once a month for the rest of his life. But the larger point for me is that when reasonable people can disagree on which of these two guys is more likely to snap and attack one of his tribemates with a machete, then people who cast this show need to do better. I mean, good Lord, remember when the worst kind of villain was Jerri Manthey? Bring back those days, show.

Edited March 1, 2015 by fishcakes

[Kromm]

I agree.  Misogyny isn't pleasant, but it's fairly straightforward.  Obsessive behavior (if that's indeed what we are seeing from Vince and not a bent portrayal) is much more dangerous.

[Dewey Decimate]

But the larger point for me is that when reasonable people can disagree on which of these two guys is more likely to snap and attack one of his tribemates with a machete, then people who cast this show need to do better. I mean, good Lord, remember when the worst kind of villain was Jerri Manthey? Bring back those days, show.

Heck yeah, that takes me back! Now she was a villain you could set your watch by. I do not enjoy the sexual/gender-based overtones of some of the current crops. When you make Coach look like a genuine, caring, respectful suitor, those are bad days indeed.

[peachmangosteen]

But the larger point for me is that when reasonable people can disagree on which of these two guys is more likely to snap and attack one of his tribemates with a machete, then people who cast this show need to do better.

 

Yea really. How awful. And yet I keep watching.

 

Also, you make good points on Rodney vs. Vince. Basically they both suck and I'd rather not see either of them again.

Edited March 1, 2015 by peachmangosteen

[Donny Ketchum]

This has nothing to do with the topic at hand, but how are you getting the @ mentions? I keep trying to do them and they never work!

Oh, that's easy.  Just type a bracket, then put in "member=" before following it up with the member's username.  Then, put in an end bracket.

Edited March 2, 2015 by Donny Ketchum

[peachmangosteen]

Oh, that's easy.  Just type a bracket, then put in "member=" before following it with the member's username.  Then, put in an end bracket.

 

Ah, well then! I could not figure it out. I thought you just had to type the @ symbol before the username. Thanks!

Edited March 2, 2015 by peachmangosteen

[BC Mama]

i think anyone who owns up to using the tragic death of their sister and laughs about it, lacks a serious ,oral compas, making them far scarier than Featherhead!

[Calamity Jane]

I'm mulling over why Vince bothered me so much more than the guy using his sister's death to hit on women. I think it is because I perceived/reacted to weird tattoo guy as inept and seriously clueless about acceptability, but not overtly menacing.  And at first, I just chalked Vince up as a typical alpha-male Type A personality masquerading as a laid-back beach bum and laughed a little about his toddler tantrum over the construction of the hut and not getting his "collaborative" way about it.  

 

After the bizarre interactions with Jenn, though, my danger-radar started pinging so loudly it made me seriously uncomfortable.  This is exactly what Gavin De Becker describes as the gift of fear -- you get that warning from your mind, you don't know exactly why, but women especially are acculturated to ignore it in favor of a more benign interpretation because they can't explain it rationally, which is what a psychopath depends on to lure in his prey.  Tattoo guy did not set off my danger alarm, don't know why, just my ewwww, wouldn't date in a million years reaction.  Vince, for whatever reason, made my skin crawl.  Obviously different people can have different reactions, and I can't rationally explain why Vince bothered me so much, but I would never, ever, in the real world, ignore it.  

[CletusMusashi]

The most benign thing  I'll say about his behavior is that the isolation of the island probably increases his neediness to a level that he's not used to feeling. He seems like he might be one of those clueless guys who get rejected by 20 girls in a row but still hook up with number 21, because they're simply not introspective enough to accumulate any sense of self doubt from the other rejections. But when the dating pool is more limited, he can't just keep accepting "no" and moving on, because, to who? So tries his usual strategy, which is keep trying, except this time it's still being shoved at the one girl who he thinks he might theoretically have a chance with. In RL, when he does get rejected by absolutely everybody, he can still at least call up his friends and smoke a doobie with them. On Survivor, he neither has a crowd to mix in and out of, nor any kind of actual social support network.

All of to which I say: get the fuck over it, Coconut Boy. 

[Ms Blue Jay]

Calamity Jane, I came to this thread specifically to discuss Gavin's book.

 

I would strongly encourage everyone, especially women, to read The Gift of Fear by Gavin DeBecker.  It is one of the most valuable things I've ever read and I only wish I read it years and years and years earlier.  This book was very famous in the 1990s, and for good reason.  Unfortunately my generation and later ones might have missed it since.

 

My heart is warmed in seeing that most people are able to read the red flags though.  I don't speak from paranoia.  I speak from experience.  

 

https://www.google.ca/webhp?sourceid=chrome-instant&ion=1&espv=2&ie=UTF-8#q=the%20gift%20of%20fear%20by%20gavin%20de%20becker

Edited March 4, 2015 by Ms Blue Jay

[Calamity Jane]

Calamity Jane, I came to this thread specifically to discuss Gavin's book.

 

I would strongly encourage everyone, especially women, to read The Gift of Fear by Gavin DeBecker.  It is one of the most valuable things I've ever read and I only wish I read it years and years and years earlier.  This book was very famous in the 1990s, and for good reason.  Unfortunately my generation and later ones might have missed it since.

 

My heart is warmed in seeing that most people are able to read the red flags though.  I don't speak from paranoia.  I speak from experience.  

 

https://www.google.ca/webhp?sourceid=chrome-instant&ion=1&espv=2&ie=UTF-8#q=the%20gift%20of%20fear%20by%20gavin%20de%20becker

So sorry about experience being the teacher, Ms Blue Jay.  :-(

Women (and men) should be much more educated about behavior that crosses the line being an immediate red flag that needs to be noticed and watched.  I guess we've all analyzed and debated and pounded this one to a pulp at this point, and can't really go any further until we see how the season unfolds.  It's just really, really unusual for me to have such a visceral reaction to a situation, so it's been on my mind a lot, that's all.  

[Special K]

Thanks for mentioning that book.  I loathe the whole, new-age "ignore your fears, they are holding you back from your true self" nonsense.  Yes, sometimes fears are unfounded, and artifacts from past trauma, but fear itself is an evolutionary advantage!   We have it for a reason!

[Ms Blue Jay]

The book talks so much about this too, as women are encouraged to smile, be nice, be polite to total strangers that we owe nothing to.  This is sometimes to our detriment.  Anyways, I could go on forever.

 

I agree with other posters who sympathize with Jenn as unfortunately she is not on the street, being harassed by a stranger, where she can simply say "Fuck off"; she is 'stuck' in the game of Survivor, where she is fighting for a million dollar prize.  It's akin in a strange way to being 'at work' and how assertively can you really act, to reject a man who doesn't want to hear it, in the workplace?  You are tied to your salary; you are trying to make a living.  You are 'stuck' there and prescribed to acting a certain, polite way to 'get by' in these situations.  You also don't want to trigger the person, because you're trapped there.  It's just unfortunate all around.

 

And, I don't blame women who don't see the warning signs, or wouldn't immediately walk away, or wouldn't assertively say "back off".  I would just strongly advise them to -- from now on -- be as educated as possible about things and people like this and then learn to act accordingly.  That book I recommended, and learning about assertiveness in general, just helped me so, so much.

Edited March 5, 2015 by Ms Blue Jay

[Gianthambeast]

I'm getting a Matthew Von Ertefelda vibe from him now.

[Donny Ketchum]

I'm actually kind of surprised that he was dispatched so soon.  But at the same time, it goes with the points @CletusMusashi and I made on Joaquin's thread regarding getting rid of big, strong men early.

 

@CletusMusashi had said:

Keeping a strong untrustworthy guy around for challenges doesn't make the same sense that it used to. These days, tribal shuffles are the norm, not the exception, so he may well end up working against whatever team you're on.

And I had said:

I think it's worth noting that when TWoP was still up and running, nearly everyone came down hard on Kass, Tasha, and J'Tia for blindsiding Garrett, a big, strong man, early in Cagayan.  But as much as they wanted to keep him around, Garrett was trying way too hard to control the whole tribe, keeping everyone from talking and forming strategies, and Tasha and J'Tia knew it.  They eventually realized that they couldn't trust him and got Kass to see that he wasn't trustworthy.  So they took matters into their own hands and voted him out second.  Not good for their muscle, but they got a new lease on life with the swap, anyway.  (Or Tasha and Kass did, anyway.  J'Tia's own uselessness got her voted out the week before the swap.)

Last season had a similar situation on Coyopa, when Josh decided he couldn't trust John Rocker and got Alec, Wes, Jaclyn, and Baylor together to blindside him out of the game, despite him also being a big, strong man.  The very next week, Natalie and Missy got Kelley, Julie, and Jeremy to betray Drew, another big, strong man, because he way-too-openly targeted the women of Hunahpu, costing said women any trust they could've had in him.  And sure enough, Hunahpu didn't suffer for it much, as the tribal swap came up next, and they got some more big, strong men on their tribe, anyway.

Point being?  @CletusMusashi is right that an untrustworthy guy being kept around just because he's strong is nonsensical.  If you feel a tribal swap is coming or may come soon, then don't hesitate to drop him.  Just like those I listed above did.  A swap just might mitigate any potential dangers like it did for them.

Sounds like Joe, Jenn, Hali, and, to an extent, Will were willing to take that bet.  Nina, however . . .

 

In any case, glad Vince is gone, because he'd have annoyed the crap out of the way the way Coach did in Tocantins.  Glad that was nipped in the bud.

[Kromm]

The most benign thing  I'll say about his behavior is that the isolation of the island probably increases his neediness to a level that he's not used to feeling. He seems like he might be one of those clueless guys who get rejected by 20 girls in a row but still hook up with number 21, because they're simply not introspective enough to accumulate any sense of self doubt from the other rejections. But when the dating pool is more limited, he can't just keep accepting "no" and moving on, because, to who? So tries his usual strategy, which is keep trying, except this time it's still being shoved at the one girl who he thinks he might theoretically have a chance with. In RL, when he does get rejected by absolutely everybody, he can still at least call up his friends and smoke a doobie with them. On Survivor, he neither has a crowd to mix in and out of, nor any kind of actual social support network.

All of to which I say: get the fuck over it, Coconut Boy. 

I'm sorry, but I don't think this fits at all.  It not only excuses his creeper behavior, but it also doesn't fit the situation in the game.  He wasn't trying and trying to reach the girl--he just assumed that she bonded to him, because that's how he WANTED it to be.  That's classic stalker behavior.  Even if verbally she was being non-commital at times, her facial expressions, tone of voice, and particularly her body language were just SCREAMING that she was humoring him at best, and seriously weirded out at worst.  

 

I know there's a specific psychological condition where certain people can't read facial expressions, but I don't think that's quite it, because he couldn't read her body language or tone of voice either.  Maybe there's a condition that combines an inability to perceive ANY of that.  I know it's a common result of autism/aspergers, for example, but that's certainly not the only people that have this, I bet.  Or maybe he CAN read those things (for example, he seemed to be able to read her activity later on from a distance as flirting), but he's got some ego thing going on where he selective ignores "input" that doesn't agree with the conclusion he wants to come to.