S05.E10: Them

[catrox14]

Because it doesn't fit with all the episodes since Beth went missing. NOW suddenly Maggie cares, it's like they have her or she is putting on this act because now they need her to show feelings when we're supposed to forget how she's been for so long now.

 

Going to the bathroom isn't the same in this scenario at all. We saw Maggie's reaction when Glenn went missing, did we not? We also saw Maggie's lack of reaction when Beth went missing. When anyone is taken/killed/missing we see reactions from the crew. 

 

Maggie hopped on the bus left for DC without a second thought about Beth, she spent all that time searching for Glenn also. But now she's going to be rude to Gabriel, say she's giving up. Acting like now suddenly Beth was so important in her life? Maggie's first priority was Glenn, she stopped at nothing to find and search for him. Beth? Total opposite, so the writers trying to pull this grieving act now comes across as really fake and not fitting of the past season and longer of Maggie's actions and treatment of Beth.

 

It's like they're throwing it in there episodes and episodes after the fact to show see, she did care because of all the criticism they got over the writing.

 

You know what line of dialogue they could have swayed me with? Maggie just outright admitting that she is crying because she feels guilty for not mentioning Beth's name ONCE after she went missing and guilt for acting like she never existed at all.  I mean how in the hell do you never speak your sister's name. Or wonder aloud to someone, anyone or to the universe.....where's Beth? And if she really thought she was dead, why not have a memorial service for her?  

 

It's contrived to make Maggie look more sympathetic NOW because they messed it up to begin with. I think maybe they were thinking of making Beth look more sympathetic by having Maggie seeming to not give a shit what happened to her sister.  To make Beth even more ALL ALONE OUT THERE and to make Daryl more important to Beth's story because he was the only one that seemed to care what happened to her. 

[madam magpie]

I think people at least wanted to see a scene of Maggie admitting that before Beth died. To at least acknolwedge her loss. Just one comment like "Glenn, I really can't talk about Beth right now, becuase if I think about it, i'm going to fall apart, and I just can't. I can't".

Just that.

So melodrama, less subtlety? I can't speak for everyone, obviously, but I never doubted Maggie's sadness about Beth...or her father. I just figured she was burying it all for the sake of survival.

I don't think Maggie feels guilty for not mentioning Beth, but I do think she feels guilty for being unable to protect/save her. That's why she said nothing. She couldn't cope, so she ignored it outwardly. That doesn't mean it wasn't always there. We're so used to being told everything in a TV show that I think it sometimes puts off an audience if they have to empathize and figure things out for themselves. Sure, it's possible those of us who got what Maggie was doing we're wrong and she was just cold-hearted. But she told us this episode exactly what she'd been feeling. I have no reason not believe her.

Edited February 16, 2015 by madam magpie

[bosawks]

They should've stuck Mr. Heatmiser next to the fire in the cabin. The reflected light would be equivalent to the sun.

Of course toxic fumes could be a concern....

[AndySmith]

 

So melodrama, less subtly?

 

One line isn't melodramatic. And it's a decent amount of subtly, as opposed to outright ignoring the issue completely.

Edited February 16, 2015 by AndySmith

[ghoulina]

Reagrding this guy Aaron, if I'm in the group I'd be suspicious of him (of course) but mostly because I'd look at my group and think "What do we have to offer?". They have little in the way of supplies, certainly nothing worth stealing or going to any elaborate ruse for. They have themselves and that would be enough for cannibals like those in Terminus so you'd be leary but this guy looks too clean and well kept to be low on supplies. I suppose there's always slavery or using our numbers to bolster those of the other group.

So, what would he want with my group?

 

Exactly. It was a whole different ball of wax when they were in the prison. What would anyone want with this exhausted, bedraggled group? The only thing I could think of, was a group of men like Tony and Dave, wanting the women. But yea, CDB has nothing to offer. So are YOU seriously coming to offer US something? Because the last time a group was actively trying to bring in new people.....they were cannibals. 

[kj4ever]

Hmm. This one was interesting for me, and I think it was needed. I think the thing that bugs me about the Maggie/Beth situation is when Maggie found out Glen wasn't on the church bus after the fall of the prison she was dead set on finding him. Daryl tells her that her sister is alive and was possibly kidnapped and she's all "cool! let's go to Washington!" I don't know what the production schedule is and I highly doubt there was enough time for the writers to throw stuff in there but it sure seems like her little speech was thrown in for good measure.

Loved the Carol/Daryl interactions. She was like his sweet Aunt giving him that kiss on his forehead, and I think she really got through to him. I know the whole burning of his hand was stupid and random, but I think it was powerful.

I really, really wanted Michonne to beat Sasha's ass.

[lamadeleine]

I actually enjoyed this episode;  I liked seeing the group struggle with the basic, essential tasks of finding water, finding food, and just making it to the next mile marker.

 

 

I don't think Maggie feels guilty for not mentioning Beth, but I do think she feels guilty for being unable to protect/save her. That's why she said nothing. She couldn't cope, so she ignored it outwardly. That doesn't mean it wasn't always there. We're so used to being told everything in a TV show that I think it sometimes puts off an audience if they have to empathize and figure things out for themselves. Sure, it's possible those of us who got what Maggie was doing we're wrong and she was just cold-hearted. But she told us this episode exactly what she'd been feeling. I have no reason not believe her.

I  agree with this. I think the writers did not do Maggie any favors last season with how they handled the Beth situation, but I got what I needed from Maggie in this episode.

 

I was, however, totally bothered by the sloppy storytelling surrounding the zombies trying to break into the barn. The barn door scene was very dramatic and symbolic, but cutting from barely keeping the hoard of walkers at bay to everyone peacefully sleeping the next morning...whaaa? I think they were trying to tease us with a "was it all a dream or wasn't it" so that when Maggie went outside, we could have the full dramatic impact of seeing that not only did the events of the night before happen, but apparently there was a "zombie apocalypse miracle" in play that helped save their lives. Fine, I'll bite(no pun intended), but it didn't really make sense.

[bosawks]

Exactly. It was a whole different ball of wax when they were in the prison. What would anyone want with this exhausted, bedraggled group? The only thing I could think of, was a group of men like Tony and Dave, wanting the women. But yea, CDB has nothing to offer. So are YOU seriously coming to offer US something? Because the last time a group was actively trying to bring in new people.....they were cannibals.

I don't know, apparently non-psychos seem to be at a premium in the ZA.....

[uoflfan]

Why haven't these people learned that when Michonne says "stop", you best stop? Michonne is so over everybody's bullshit. Michonne rules.

[Ohwell]

I didn't get upset about them eating the dogs (as opposed to eating humans) because you've got to do what you have to do to survive.  My only concern was, since the dogs probably ate zombie meat, wouldn't the dog meat be tainted, like when the cannibals ate Bob's leg?   

[diebartdie]

 The barn door scene was very dramatic and symbolic, but cutting from barely keeping the hoard of walkers at bay to everyone peacefully sleeping the next morning...whaaa? I think they were trying to tease us with a "was it all a dream or wasn't it" so that when Maggie went outside, we could have the full dramatic impact of seeing that not only did the events of the night before happen, but apparently there was a "zombie apocalypse miracle" in play that helped save their lives. Fine, I'll bite(no pun intended), but it didn't really make sense.

The way I'm taking it is maybe the series is making a big change in the story telling overall. Last episode was so trippy and surreal, now this one has this droopy, dreamy sort of fuge-like feel throughout that the final barn sequence just played out like a nightmaredream, it did make sense that the strong, healthy trees would be the sacrifice, the destroyer of ghouls, Tree Heroes making a stand for our puny heroes, there there give them rest now just a moment still a dream though yes must be has to be because there's ghostbeth again now a plastic twirlygirl in a pink box grinds stops ping always going to be singing to us my girl beth

 

So then Aaron shows up, all sparkly clean, full face, hydrated rich beyond the telling of it in that mean world why would such a man even approach our feral band of heroes? Know what else I wonder? Why dont more people in our group bicker? You always have at least one obnoxious jerk in any group, we used to have Merl but all we really have is Abe's hair. Anyway, a little tour of Lost-land via zombieapocalypse Im all for it bring it on please

[HalcyonDays]

I didn't get upset about them eating the dogs (as opposed to eating humans) because you've got to do what you have to do to survive.  My only concern was, since the dogs probably ate zombie meat, wouldn't the dog meat be tainted, like when the cannibals ate Bob's leg?   

 

I'll fanwank that because dogs have a superior sense of smell, they can tell the difference between zombies and humans - and know to stay away from the zombies. That dead deer that Daryl found could have been attacked and eaten by dogs (though I though it was to show the drought's impact on everything). It's a good point though.

[Muffyn]

I didn't think it was a dream, but I did think it was terribly unrealistic. What, one minute zombies are almost breaking down the doors - next minute they're all gone? And EVERYBODY says, "Ok, then - guess we can all go back to sleep." SERIOUSLY!?!?

You would think at least a few people would be up guarding the door, not just Daryl sitting as far from it as possible.  Does no one worry about stragglers?  

 

I love how everyone is supposedly so worn down and tired from walking in this heat but no one collapsed or fainted after the zombie fight. And Maggie, Rosita, and the other girl all have perfect hair without a single sign of frizz LOL.

Sasha's hair is starting to look a little frizzy, but she keeps it tightly pulled back.  In a weird way, I appreciate that filthy mop on top of Daryl's head.  I definitely look at him and believe he is caked in filth.  As to Abraham's head of horror, I am hoping they find walkers are attracted to it's fiery brilliance and they have to shave his head so we don't have to see it anymore.  The shot of him was the most startling thing in this episode.  

[Ohwell]

I'll fanwank that because dogs have a superior sense of smell, they can tell the difference between zombies and humans - and know to stay away from the zombies.

Yeah, but even if they could smell the difference, I would think at some point they'd get so hungry and say "fuck it" and eat the zombie meat.

Edited February 16, 2015 by Ohwell

[AndySmith]

What I want to know is who skinned, gutted, and cleaned the dogs before they put them on the grill?

[Maverick]

 With all the crazies this group has encountered, you think they'd be able to see that signs that THIS IS NOT A GOOD AREA TO BE IN.  Houses burned, bodies deliberately cut in half, symbols carved into foreheads, dead frogs and symbols in the mud, someone tied up and left for dead in a trunk, attack dogs, mystery people offering gifts.  It seems pretty clear there are some major sickos running around, probably worse than Terminus.  What do these people need?  For Judith to start talking and yell "Run, FOOLS!"?

 

 Daryl can get bit at any time; so over him.

 

 I thought it was fairly clear Aaron and/or his group has been watching CDB (how else would they know they need water and where to leave it) and that's how he knew Rick's name.  Aaron's appearance definitely gives off Lost vibes (which is not a good thing) but even The Others knew to have a dress-down wardrobe for interacting with others.  Instead this dude looks like he just jumped out of a Land's End catalog.  And as anyone who's had the misfortune of getting their email address on their list knows, they won't leave you alone. 

[XtremeOne1]

I don't get the complaints about Maggie. Yeah, I complained about her lack of grief in the first half but she's grieving now and to me, that's what is important. Lauren is doing a good job with it, it's giving Maggie something to do besides being "Glenn's wife"(which I don' get why Glenn, boring boring boring Glenn, is still alive. Please, put him out of our misery), so yeah I'm happy. Sure, it's late but I don't think it's a "little too late"...They tried to explain it away with some bad writing but eh, I like the character enough to move on. 

 

It was also nice to see the Sasha/Maggie interact that way they did. It makes sense why they'd be closer, given they want through post prison. But it's nice...This show use to be so male-centric, with female characters being not even a second though(barely even a third), so it's so nice to see this shift in focus where we have all these great female characters.

 

Saying that...can we kill rest of the DC Bus Crew(Tara, Hot Shorts, Stupid Beard Face, Mullet Head and Glenn). I just don't care about them.

[pasdetrois]

It never occurred to me that Maggie was dreaming. However, when there was an abrupt shift from frantic door-defending to everyone sprawled out asleep I wondered what the hell happened. Also, Daryl and Maggie moving silently to brace the barn door made absolutely zero sense. Why didn't they sound the alarm?

 

Norman Reedus always looks like he's coming off of a bender. Those slitty eyes with the huge bags underneath! And the hair doesn't help. Too much Emo Daryl is not a good thing, but I appreciated his little moment to remember his buddy Beth.

 

When the downpour unleashed all I could think was 1) drink 'til you bust and 2) get clean. Instead they raced to the barn.

 

Andrew Lincoln looks so very different than when he played the character in "Love Actually."

 

I just la-la'ed with closed eyes and muted sound when they killed the dogs. Although I grinned when one of them was happily wagging its tail as it "ferociously" barked. I imagined its trainer standing off to one side, with the dog knowing a treat was coming.

Edited February 16, 2015 by pasdetrois

[BrokenRemote]

i guess my perception is really off - maybe from watching on our nonHD TV, heh- but I thought the barn doo attack was Maggie's dream, wrong, I now know, and I thought Abe smacked the bottle away from Eugene intending to scold him that he wouldn't get to be the hero.

One thing I know after many years living in tornado alley is that a barn like that would have looked a lot worse after a storm bad enough to knock down healthy trees.

Where I used to live, in a small town with small grids of streets, we once watched a tornado march down our street, take out utility poles on both sides, miss the houses. Then it turned 90 degrees and picked up stacks of lumber in the lumberyard next door. There were swirling stacks of two-by-fours about six feet from my window. Our house was untouched.

I assumed that the reason nobody called out when they saw what was happening with the barn door was that they thought if the walkers had no confirmation there was prey inside, eventually if the door never gave out they'd give up and move on. I also assumed that after the pushing on the door and the noise went away, the group peeked out and saw the danger was past. Maybe they didn't get hit with the full picture until morning, but no way they'd go to sleep unless they knew the herd was gone.

Why haven't these people learned that when Michonne says "stop", you best stop? Michonne is so over everybody's bullshit. Michonne rules.

Yeah, but there was a time when people had to put up with Michonne's bullshit because she was shut down and grieving. She put Andrea in danger because of it. I don't get why Sasha doesn't get a few days of slack. Yes, she endangered them at the bridge. But I feel like Michonne goaded her into it. How would Michonne have felt if someone had said to her, during her weeks and months of lashing out and being hostile in her grief, that her dead family were stupid and she was just as stupid?

[Black Knight]

I can't stand Rick's beard. It looks beyond terrible, and the group clearly has enough access to tools that keep hair from getting too long or full-on beards from developing, so for Rick to have that beard is just looking like affectation on Andy Lincoln's part. And I don't buy it. Rick isn't in crazy-Rick mode currently, so he'd want to look a little more together for his kids.

 

The problem with Maggie's claim that she just shut down all thought of Beth and assumed she was dead is that she didn't do the same thing with Glenn. If I hadn't watched her be hyper-determined to find Glenn, then it wouldn't fall so flat for me. Instead this just feels like the writers hearing all the criticisms and lamely attempting to tack on an explanation after the fact, but it's too late. They can't rewrite the past so that Maggie put "Glenn and Beth" on those signs, or decided instantly that Glenn must be dead, or anything like that, so the show needs to just move on. They screwed up the writing in regards to Maggie/Beth, but now that Beth really is dead I don't need to think about it anymore if the show would just stop reminding me Beth even existed.

 

The tied-up walker in the trunk was just horrific. I want so badly to believe that she was already a walker when she was put in there and whoever put her in there was a loved one who couldn't accept yet that once someone turns walker, there's no coming back.

 

I thought Abraham slapping the water out of Eugene's hand was sort of a tacit - not apology exactly, but relenting towards Eugene after almost killing him before. Eugene lied, but Abraham wouldn't even be alive if not for that lie, so it's natural for him to have conflicting emotions.

[BrokenRemote]

With all the crazies this group has encountered, you think they'd be able to see that signs that THIS IS NOT A GOOD AREA TO BE IN. Houses burned, bodies deliberately cut in half, symbols carved into foreheads, dead frogs and symbols in the mud, someone tied up and left for dead in a trunk, attack dogs, mystery people offering gifts. It seems pretty clear there are some major sickos running around, probably worse than Terminus. What do these people need? For Judith to start talking and yell "Run, FOOLS!"?

Daryl can get bit at any time; so over him.

I thought it was fairly clear Aaron and/or his group has been watching CDB (how else would they know they need water and where to leave it) and that's how he knew Rick's name. Aaron's appearance definitely gives off Lost vibes (which is not a good thing) but even The Others knew to have a dress-down wardrobe for interacting with others. Instead this dude looks like he just jumped out of a Land's End catalog. And as anyone who's had the misfortune of getting their email address on their list knows, they won't leave you alone.

Well, they're 40 miles from Noah's town. Rick said D C was 100 miles away from there, and they confirmed in this episode they had about 60 to go. So they're not really in the same area as the mutilated bodies. And 40 miles can be a long, long way when you're walking.

[minamurray78]

Here's hoping Aaron's a keeper, so that he can use his grooming skills on Daryl. Those emo bangs need to be gone by yesterday, and Daryl's hair dye doesn't even match Norman's whiskers.

I was also tsking when Rick was carrying Judith face straight to the sun. Come to think of it, why were they all walking in the middle of the road under the direct sunlight when they could've been using the shade of the trees right next to the road?

[candall]

Did Cher survive?  I need Daryl to Snap out of it!  He's evolved into such a great character--no one wants to see Daryl draggy-assed all season.  I don't think anyone out here adored Beth as much as the producers.

 

Real life :  hunters "harvested" >242,000 deer in Virginia last year.  Either CDB would be surfing whitetail waves by now or the walkers should look more fat & happy.

 

****************

Dog lovers:  I think we're going to live-chat Westminster tonight.  It's in the forums under Miscellaneous TV Talk/One Shots.  (I'm a hybrid-vigor fan myself, but I make an exception for Westminster.  Even the commercials are heartwarming.)

[Samx]

I was annoyed with Maggie's Beth-apathy at the time but her 180 in this ep didn't bother me. Even if she wasn't worried about Beth before, seeing her dead body would have an adverse impact and I'm glad we got to see it, and I think Lauren did a good job with what she was given. OTOH, Sasha's grief annoyed me to the extent that it made her reckless and put everyone else in danger. Michonne was right to try and keep her in check. 

 

I like the Maggie/Sasha relationship and the way they moved in unison at the end when Aaron showed up reminded me of when they instinctively went back to back in fighting formation in that Maggie/Sasha/Bob episode (can't remember the name of it). I like when the show reminds us that these people have become a family and unit of sorts.

 

Daryl: Kind of felt like the writers were making up for the lack of Daryl in the premiere but I didn't have a problem with it. When he burned himself with the cigarette, I thought that it probably wasn't the first time he'd had a cigarette burned into his skin and might be his traumatic childhood manifesting itself during this time of grief/hopelessness. We've seen how self-destructive he can be so it wasn't out of character.

 

I thought I heard strong wind noises during the last scene (indicating that a tornado was hitting) but I am a little annoyed that we didn't get to see how that whole thing actually played out. 

 

Just generally, poor Judith. Poor poor Judith. Get that baby a hat.

[Anela]

Didn't Maggie actually EXPLAIN why she hadn't been talking about Beth before this episode in this very episode???  I mean, that's exactly how I'd been reading her behaviour over the last season and a half and then she said it.  

 

Sasha's scene with Noah at the campfire, then Maggie and Gabriel as he throws his collar in the fire - not going to lie, got a little teary.  Something about it just moved me.  Nice work all around, actors, writers etc, all on the ball.  

 

She just assumed she was dead, but Glenn, who was extremely ill the last time she saw him, must have been alive? I would have been thinking differently, no matter how much of a fighter Glenn had been in the past.

 

I LIKED this episode. I felt bad for Maggie, but she didn't have to add to what the priest is carrying.

 

[CletusMusashi]

Personally, I was glad the gang was able to enjoy a little Korean barbeque. 

Yeah, I kept waiting for Glenn to point at somebody and say "Don't even go there!"

[NorthstarATL]

Yeah, but there was a time when people had to put up with Michonne's bullshit because she was shut down and grieving. She put Andrea in danger because of it. I don't get why Sasha doesn't get a few days of slack. Yes, she endangered them at the bridge. But I feel like Michonne goaded her into it. How would Michonne have felt if someone had said to her, during her weeks and months of lashing out and being hostile in her grief, that her dead family were stupid and she was just as stupid?

I don't recall Michonne doing that. Michonne was very reticent to speak back then, but when she spoke she clearly warned that Woodbury and the Governor were sketchy. She's been  fairly consistent as a character (except for the insane notion about going to Washington).

    I liked the episode a lot. I really wish the group would take up Tara's suggestion of finding bikes, or some sort of wheeled vehicles that don't require fuel. It wouldn't look as "cool", but it would certainly show that they were thinking.

      I've not liked that Maggie forgot Beth until she was dead, while we saw her resolute quest to find Glenn, but what stuck out to me was Rick talking to Daryl about how he "lost someone", when that "someone" was his daughter's caretaker for much of the time they were in the prison. In fact, taking care of Judith is something Tyreese and Beth had in common. I wouldn't be volunteering to babysit any time soon.

[Donny Ketchum]

I want Maggie, Michonne, Sasha, Glenn and Daryl to stay alive.  I figure Rick and Carl are safe for the moment.

 

Abraham, Eugene, and Gabriel the sooner they die the better.

And what about Carol, Tara, Rosita, and Noah?

[Boofish]

I bet Noah wishes he had never checked out St Dawn's Hospital and Check Cashing Emporium. Once they cooked Cujo I would have just stepped in front a zombie and said "dinner is served" 

[Anela]

So melodrama, less subtlety? I can't speak for everyone, obviously, but I never doubted Maggie's sadness about Beth...or her father. I just figured she was burying it all for the sake of survival.

 

 

Her obsessive hunt for Glenn, and writing messages to him with walker blood, was melodramatic.

 

kj4ever: yep. Daryl told her that Beth was alive. Walkers don't drive cars, so I don't understand why she would continue to think she was dead, unless she thought the termites had picked her up. That, I would understand.

 

I had Lost vibes when they started off the episode, zoomed in on Maggie's eyes. All they needed after Aaron's appearance, was this, only with The Walking Dead written there instead:

 

[madam magpie]

Hope that Glenn was alive was all Maggie had at that point before Terminus. She thought Beth was dead after the prison. Her father had just been killed. She's back on the run. So she became single-minded in her determination to find her husband. Since this is TV, she got lucky and found him, but it sounds like basic human psychology to me.

Her obsessive hunt for Glenn, and writing messages to him with walker blood, was melodramatic.

Yes, it was. It was also hysteria. So what you're saying is the show needs more of that? I just don't agree. I prefer more subtlety and less melodrama. Edited February 16, 2015 by madam magpie

[Anela]

Beth was stronger than Glenn, at that point, and had a weapon. It still bugs me, but I don't hate Maggie.

[catrox14]

 

Yes, it was. It was also hysteria. So what you're saying is the show needs more of that? I just don't agree. I prefer subtlety.

 

So Maggie screaming and crying and throwing herself on the ground when she saw Beth's body was subtle?

 

They overcorrected in that episode and with Maggie's explanations here to the point that this became melodrama and none of it makes any sense at all.

[BrokenRemote]

Here's hoping Aaron's a keeper, so that he can use his grooming skills on Daryl. Those emo bangs need to be gone by yesterday, and Daryl's hair dye doesn't even match Norman's whiskers.

I was also tsking when Rick was carrying Judith face straight to the sun. Come to think of it, why were they all walking in the middle of the road under the direct sunlight when they could've been using the shade of the trees right next to the road?

I also wonder why they walk in the heat of midday, instead of walking in the early morning and in the early evening, taking shelter in the shade when it's the hottest.  It would conserve their energy, and they'd sweat less, so it'd conserve their water.

 

I don't recall Michonne doing that. Michonne was very reticent to speak back then, but when she spoke she clearly warned that Woodbury and the Governor were sketchy. She's been  fairly consistent as a character (except for the insane notion about going to Washington).

    I liked the episode a lot. I really wish the group would take up Tara's suggestion of finding bikes, or some sort of wheeled vehicles that don't require fuel. It wouldn't look as "cool", but it would certainly show that they were thinking.

      I've not liked that Maggie forgot Beth until she was dead, while we saw her resolute quest to find Glenn, but what stuck out to me was Rick talking to Daryl about how he "lost someone", when that "someone" was his daughter's caretaker for much of the time they were in the prison. In fact, taking care of Judith is something Tyreese and Beth had in common. I wouldn't be volunteering to babysit any time soon.

Yes, she said Woodbury was sketchy.  But she had real, factual reasons why it was dangerous, and she refused to open her mouth and tell them to Andrea.  She was basically saying "if you don't believe me on nothing but my say-so you can just stay here in danger".  She was supposed to be Andrea's friend, but she couldn't expend the effort to speak two or three sentences about the things she'd seen at Woodbury?   I never took that as 'reticent to speak', like she was shy or something.  I took that as being closed off in her grief and her anger. 

 

I think she's been the exact opposite of consistent.  She started out as practically mute, as angry with herself and the world, as shutting people out and refusing to let anyone in.  She'd lost everything, and she wasn't going to let herself get hurt anymore.  And then she had the breakthrough, after the prison fell, when she saw the walker that looked like her.  She smiled, she bonded with Rick and Carl.  That smile on her face when she came up to the house where Rick and Carl were hiding out and she realized she'd found them?  That moment when she changed her mind and decided to follow their tracks instead of going off on her own again as she'd originally planned (deliberately ignoring their tracks)?  Incredibly moving TV, at least to me.

 

Can you imagine the Michonne we have now seeing Aaron out in the woods killing innocent people and just telling Rick and the group "He's dangerous" and refusing to explain why? I certainly can't.  Because she's bonded with these people and she cares about them.  She was happy to leave Andrea with the Governor because Andrea wouldn't take her five or six words as gospel without any kind of explanation.  Sasha is wracked with grief, and blind to the fact that she's endagering the others.  They should absolutely point that out to her.  But god, why does she have to trash her brother to do it?  

 

Why even say "Tyrese was pissed, and he was stupid, and now you are?"  Why not just say "You're pissed, and it's making you do stupid things"?  Why bring her just-dead brother into it at all?  I figure there was about a 100% chance that wasn't going to go down well with Sasha. It sure wouldn't have gone down well with me.  All I'd have heard was "Your dead brother was stupid," and the real message, the risks she was taking/causing, would have been lost in the outrage.  I'm really surprised that nobody has a problem with that.  Would everyone feel the same if she'd been going on about how stupid Beth was as a means of trying to lecture someone?  Is it because everyone was ready for Tyrese to die anyway?

 

I love Michonne, and her character arc and the way she's grown is a major part of why.  But I know she was pretty wrapped up in grief and willing to push the world away when we first saw her.

Edited February 16, 2015 by BrokenRemote

[CletusMusashi]

I'm calling it now: Aaron is a television executive.

"Rick Grimes, I have here a list of complaints we've been receiving from viewers of your television series."

[BrokenRemote]

Or a health inspector: "I have a warrant for whatever might be living in your beard".

[The Mighty Peanut]

Why haven't these people learned that when Michonne says "stop", you best stop? Michonne is so over everybody's bullshit. Michonne rules.

I thought Michonne's choice of words in calling Tyreese stupid were interesting given that she was really down on herself and called herself stupid when she almost got killed before being let into the prison after a run. It was in her talk with Beth, who said she wasn't stupid and that (paraphrased) no one can anticipate the ZA, so I assume that's significant to Michonne's inner turmoil. I think it was the episode she held Judith and had a panic attack. <3

There was a TWD animated parody on college humor a few years ago called something like "walking dead in our dreams" (there's another for Game of Thrones where every character living and dead murders Joffrey horribly) and there's one line I remember the most: "Guys, Michonne is drunk and telling her backstory!", cut to Michonne, "The year was 1791..."

Edited February 16, 2015 by The Mighty Peanut

[AndySmith]

the real message, the risks she was taking/causing, would have been lost in the outrage.

 

I think Michone's message was "Don't be an idiot like your brother, because that's what got him killed. Stay focused". Or something along those lines.

[pasdetrois]

The reason I think the trunk-bound walker was kidnapped pre-ZA was because her mouth was gagged.

[Tippi Blevins]

To conserve energy, they should start living like sloths. Eat plant material, hang around in trees, move very slowly. Rick is already growing the algae in his beard like sloths do in their fur.

[Grace284]

Beth- continuing to drain the life and intelligence from better characters even after her death.

I enjoy the episodes when we get a real sense of life on the road. Nice to see different characters interacting too.

[CletusMusashi]

How is Aaron carrying all that water around unless he's got people with him? If a car was nearby, they would have heard it.

Unless maybe it had Woodbury 2.0-style Governor mufflers.

[Boofish]

Aaron is representing Intervention - 

 

Rick your beard has affected me negatively in the followings ways

Carl your hat has affected me negatively in the following ways

Father Pee Pants your uselessness has affected me negatively in the following ways

Tara the fact that you are the last surviving member of Woodbury the Sequel has affected me negatively in the following ways

Abraham, Euguene and Rosita your presence on this show has affected me negatively in the following ways

[jonesingjay]

I think the poster was referring to Rosita and just got the name wrong.

 

I should've known that! LOL. Thanks. 

[Ocean Chick]

My own head-canon for Kidnapped Walker was she was kidnapped by some rapey guys and stashed in the trunk after all hell broke loose.  The rapey guys ended up in that traffic jam and the walkers were upon them, leaving poor Kidnapped Walker to die an agonizing death by dehydration, leaving her a walker in the trunk, poor thing.  She had the WORST luck.

 

So now Maggie assumes that her weak, still ill husband is alive after the prison, but she assumes that her healthy young sister is dead until informed by Daryl that she's alive?  Why?  I mean, there's ret-conning and then there's ret-conning.  And why, after finding out she was last seen alive, would she not spend as much time and energy looking for her last blood relative as she did her husband?  Was the trip to Washington THAT necessary for her?  I mean, she told everyone who tried to tell her that her chances of finding Glenn where nil that she had faith that she would find him.  Why didn't she have that same faith in regards to finding Beth?

 

I'm glad they had Michonne rag on Sasha about her anger - it shows that Michonne is human and can err just like the rest of the group.  She's not perfect.

[Straycat80]

Sorry if anyone mentioned these:

What are they feeding Judith? I can see adults going several days with no food but not a one year old baby.

Doesn't anyone have a razor they can loan Rick? The other guys are somewhat clean shaven. Rick is starting to look like Grizzley Adam's twin brother.

When Sasha went crazy stabbing zombies she knicked the red haired guys arm. Wouldn't he get infected by the zombie blood?

[CletusMusashi]

So am I the only one who actually thinks Rick's beard looks healthier when it's all grown out like this? At least all the hairs point downwards now, They aren't just randomly spiking all over the place like they were not so long ago. I've got the same problem Andrew LIncoln does. My beard looks good when it's trimmed, or when it's very long and fluffy, but when it's medium length it just bristles all over the place because every single shade of grey in it has a different texture and growth rate than the others. So keeping it nicely trimmed is close to impossible. Until I was about 35, I could just smooth the whole thing down evenly with a comb and razor, but now that I'm older any attempt to do that just results in a sort of "survival of the coarsest" where the soft hairs cut too readily and the others have to be battled one at a time with scissor-tips. Keeping it longer than I used to is my best option at this age.

Edited February 17, 2015 by CletusMusashi

[Boofish]

 

So now Maggie assumes that her weak, still ill husband is alive after the prison, but she assumes that her healthy young sister is dead until informed by Daryl that she's alive?  Why?  I mean, there's ret-conning and then there's ret-conning.  And why, after finding out she was last seen alive, would she not spend as much time and energy looking for her last blood relative as she did her husband?  Was the trip to Washington THAT necessary for her?  I mean, she told everyone who tried to tell her that her chances of finding Glenn where nil that she had faith that she would find him.  Why didn't she have that same faith in regards to finding Beth?

 

Maggie saw Glen get on the bus but not off. She had no idea what happened to Beth. She went looking for the bus and once found and she realized he was not on it she assumed he escaped and was looking for her. It's ZA logic so it has to make no sense. No one saw Beth get away. When Maggie was talking to FPP it just sounded to me like it was easier to assume Beth (and everyone else no one saw) was dead. I think if she spent too much time being sad she would get the "shut up and get over it" treatment

[natyxg]

I've never understood the complaints about Maggie. It's the zombie apocalypse. What's she supposed to do when her father is killed and her sister disappears? Sit around crying? Go to therapy? Talk about it endlessly? She has to survive. That she'd bury how she feels until she can't anymore seemd perfectly normal to me. Everyone copes differently. Maggie coped by shutting down in relation to Beth. I get it.

 

Maggie shutting down and burying her feelings is an actual action, an actual beat, that they didn't bother showing. Ways to show those beats? A small conversation with Glenn, when he wants so talk to her about how she is after everything and she just ignores him or answers something that implies that she is, in fact, supressing her feelings because she can't afford to let herself feel it. Actually focusing on her when Daryl said Beth was alive, and showing us in her reaction all the crap that she mentioned last night about thinking she had died, and then hoping she was there and whatever. A small mention of her sister to someone before remembering that she will never see her again, and shutting down on the topic.

 

Imagine seeing NO reaction from Rick and Carl to losing Judith. They didn't dwell on it over and over and over, but it was acknowledged.  Or better yet, look at Sasha's plot last night. She wasn't sitting around crying after losing her brother and bob, but she had a reaction. She was pissed off and reckless. And it was acknowledged in a way that made sense, just after it happened. But it took them like a season to do it with Maggie, I guess because they decided to throw all the Beth related stuff to Daryl and just forgot or something.  I think the criticism they got for the oversight was spot on. I want to think that it was scripted but just got cut out in the editing room or something.

[nodorothyparker]

I don't really have a problem with Maggie's story that she abstractly had to believe Beth was dead and gone and therefore couldn't talk about it while she was hyperfocusing on her search for Glenn because I think it's plausible in the aftermath of seeing Herschel murdered and the destruction of the prison.  To keep going, she could only make herself focus on the one person she believed capable of surviving out on his own and it wasn't Beth.  Until Daryl said otherwise, for all she knew Beth never made it out of the prison.  After Terminus they didn't have the first idea of where to even look for her and really nothing they could have done had Daryl not seen the conveniently timed car with a white cross driving by.  

 

But at the same time, it feels like the show is trying to have it both ways.  The one person closest to Beth who knew her best and knew what her skill set was believed her too weak to live outside the protection of fences.  (And to be fair, it seems unlikely she would have had Daryl not been there to save her over and over.)  Yet the show continues to insist on fluffing her character as being so tough and strong right up to the point she brought cuticle scissors to a gunfight.

 

I do wish the show had done a better job of at least cluing us in that this was where Maggie's head was at because she did seem awfully quick to ride off into the sunset with the comic book trio and awfully chipper for someone who was shutting down inside.  But if it's a choice between a Maggie who's finally interesting again or a dead character I never cared much about and yet another round of Daryl's manpain, I'm going to go with the former.