S05.E07: Episode Seven

[wlk68]

:sobs: Isis!  Oh, Isis! :sobs:  I don't give a shit about the rest.  Isis!  Stupid terrorists fuck shit up for everybody :sobs:

There's been rumors that the dog playing Isis didn't get along with the dogs that belong to Lord and Lady Carnarvon so she had to go. Additionally, Isis would be at least 10 years old by now, if not older, so it's not outside the realm of possibility.  

 

All that being said, it was still very emotional. I loved that Cora and Robert put her between them on the bed. I lost one of my cats to a brain tumor last fall and I still miss her every day. Our pets are our family.

 

So tired of Anna and Bates, who used to be favorites.  Also tired of Baxter, who wanders around with the oddest expression on her face.  They seem to so want her to be a mischief maker but it's failing miserably.

 

 

I don't think Baxter is supposed to be a mischief maker. I think Thomas wanted her to be one - his new partner in crime - but she didn't want any part in it and only did the bare minimum because he was blackmailing her. Once  the thing he held over her was no longer an issue she told him to cram it. 

 

I hate the way the Bates(es?) gave her the cold shoulder. The police show up and ask her questions and she's supposed to perjure herself for them? Don't think so. 

Edited February 16, 2015 by wlk68

[persey]

The best moment was surprisingly indirect, given this show.  Tom's calling Larry Merton the worst word he could come up and it's "Bastard!" as everyone at the table does a virtual faint.  Yes, Edith, this is what's in store for your idolized Marigold and you'll have done it to her. 

 

Hate Edith.  Her dismissal of Mrs. Drewe was appalling.  Now I only want to see a story line where she decides to run the magazine herself and in three months it's bankrupt and Edith's destitute.  Heh. 

 

And speaking of Mrs. Drewe,  whyever should she be quiet?  Unless the Crawleys threaten her and her family with eviction if she talks, and I wouldn't put it past them.  Pferhaps her distinterested love of Marigold will cause her to take the high road.  I hope she engages in a litle subtle blackmail, though.

 

Finally, it's lovely that Robert is so accepting of having a Jew in the family, given his reaction to having Sybbie be baptized a Catholic.  Well I remember his smelling-a-dead-fish expression when he had his picture taken with a priest!

[Kohola3]

There's been rumors that the dog playing Isis didn't get along with the dogs that belong to Lord and Lady Carnarvon so she had to go.

 

I believe that was Pharaoh, the dog in Season 1.  Isis has been on for all of the other seasons so apparently she got along OK.

[bmoore4026]

While it won't assuage your grief, this has nothing to do with terrorists.  These were all filmed BEFORE the terrorists group emerged.

 

Really?  I heard somewhere it was because of ISIS that they had to get rid of the dog.

[wlk68]

I believe that was Pharaoh, the dog in Season 1.  Isis has been on for all of the other seasons so apparently she got along OK.

I stand corrected. :)

[SusanSunflower]

You remind me, I remembered "little Sybbie" recently and the bruhaha about religion, has little Marigold been baptized? Was that covered at some point?  

It's quite perplexing how financial matters, I.e. money, is never  mentioned. Somehow, there is money for Edith's year-long sojourn abroad and she has the wherewithal to pay for trains and hotels in her running away -- an allowance? or simply trading on the Crawley name and credit extended? 

I've wondered this repeatedly wrt Tom as well. Whether or not he decides to run away from home, does he have money to buy a steamship ticket and travel with or without daughter, to America or anywhere else? If he has money, where did it come from and does he have control over its administration? 

[Llywela]

Really?  I heard somewhere it was because of ISIS that they had to get rid of the dog.

That was just what fans presumed when the storyline about the dog being sick first emerged.

I've wondered this repeatedly wrt Tom as well. Whether or not he decides to run away from home, does he have money to buy a steamship ticket and travel with or without daughter, to America or anywhere else? If he has money, where did it come from and does he have control over its administration? 

Tom has been working for the Crawleys as estate manager for about three years now. It's a salaried position and I doubt he's paying rent, so he'll have been able to save a bit.

[Avaleigh]

Really?  I heard somewhere it was because of ISIS that they had to get rid of the dog.

That was just a rumor.

 

The best moment was surprisingly indirect, given this show.  Tom's calling Larry Merton the worst word he could come up and it's "Bastard!" as everyone at the table does a virtual faint.  Yes, Edith, this is what's in store for your idolized Marigold and you'll have done it to her. 

 

Hate Edith.  Her dismissal of Mrs. Drewe was appalling.  Now I only want to see a story line where she decides to run the magazine herself and in three months it's bankrupt and Edith's destitute.  Heh. 

 

 

Ugh, Edith's treatment and attitude towards Mrs Drewe is just appalling. She didn't once try to put herself in that poor woman's shoes. 

 

 It's quite perplexing how financial matters, I.e. money, is never  mentioned. Somehow, there is money for Edith's year-long sojourn abroad and she has the wherewithal to pay for trains and hotels in her running away -- an allowance? or simply trading on the Crawley name and credit extended? 

She went with Rosamund and it has been stated that Rosamund is rich. Edith also has money from her grandfather's trust and from working at the paper. 

[Andorra]

There's been rumors that the dog playing Isis didn't get along with the dogs that belong to Lord and Lady Carnarvon so she had to go. Additionally, Isis would be at least 10 years old by now, if not older, so it's not outside the realm of possibility.  

 

 

No, that was "Pharao", the dog from first season. Isis was played by "Abby" and according to Allen Leech she is the "stupidest dog in history" and he has "no idea why it has a job". He described in a very funny way how "Isis" behaves during filming and that she never does what she is supposed to. The most funny thing is though that Abby absolutely has a crush on Allen and followed him around on set all day and he was told not to pay too much attention to her, so she wouldn't adore the chauffeur too much in her scenes instead of her supposed master Lord Grantham.

 

 

Really?  I heard somewhere it was because of ISIS that they had to get rid of the dog.

 

No, that's just BS. The episodes were written AND filmed before ISIS even appeared in the news. The truth is that they probably just got sick of hundreds of tweets every season on social media that "Isis is too old!" "Isis is the oldest dog in history" even though if people had paid attention they would have known that Isis was first in the series in 1916, so she is no probably only 9 years old which is old, but not very old!

 

I bet Robert is going to have  new yellow Lab in season 6.

I think usually the girls got an allowance once they were 21. Edith will have her own money and we know Tom and Sybil lived from her allowance for a while in Ireland when he got paid so badly as a journalist.

 

I think he will now probably save Sybil's money for Sybbie and he has a good job as estate manager and probably not many costs, so I guess he probably was able to save quite a lot of money during the last 4 years.

[Constantinople]

I'm surprised that Mary hasn't figured out, or guessed, about Edith and Marigold.  I wouldn't say Mary is particularly bright, but there are plenty of clues and people like Mary can be clever in a viscious way when they want to think ill of someone.

[bmoore4026]

To all those who corrected, thank you.  I actually had no idea that people were complaining about Isis' age.  Nor did I know about the dog's problem with other dogs.  Total diva.

 

Wonder what these people are thinking about The Dowager Countess's age?

[Avaleigh]

To all those who corrected, thank you.  I actually had no idea that people were complaining about Isis' age.  Nor did I know about the dog's problem with other dogs.  Total diva.

 

Wonder what these people are thinking about The Dowager Countess's age?

Maggie Smith is 80 and the Dowager Countess is about 82. Also, the dog who plays Isis wasn't the dog that had problems with Lady Carnarvons dogs; it was the male dog who played Pharoah as Andorra mentioned and that's why the dog was recast with a female and given a new name.

[Crs97]

I read an interview with Laura Carmichael talking about how Edith understands what Mrs. Drewe is going through since they are both mothers and maybe one day they can get together and apologize to each other and I thought, "What in the world does Mrs. Drewe have to apologize for?" and "Why in the world didn't you bother to play Edith that way because she seriously is treating Mrs. Drewe like the gum under her shoe instead of the woman whose life and family she destroyed?"  This storyline makes me see red and hate Edith with a blind passion.

 

I hope Mrs. Gregson manages to claw her way out of the institution and claim her inheritance rights.

[Andorra]

Wonder what these people are thinking about The Dowager Countess's age?

 

Well according to Allen Leech Maggie Smith told him lately on set: "I must be 186!" LOL So even she is sure about her character's age.

Edited February 16, 2015 by Andorra

[lucindabelle]

80 or 82 is not that old. Not when you consider that Mick Jagger is over 70. I mean.

 

It's just that those particular 80 years saw a lot of shifts, so it feels more drastic.

 

What was Mrs. Drewe trying to accomplish by going to Cora? I'm sorry, I just cannot imagine it had to do with "the good of the child." Did she want money? That said, sending Marigold back there for even one day was idiotic beyond belief. And word to "how dare you keep this from me" to "let's keep this from Robert" being hypocritical. Ugh, it's just contrived to keep everyone in the house.

 

I thought Violet was sad because of her Russian prince, not at losing Isobel, but I boubht that too.

 

mary's lack of empathy was too much. I officially loathe her now. Her selfish aspect isn't a front. Its become who she is.

[bmoore4026]

Oh!  In my mourning for Isis the doggie, I forgot that Tom's leaving,  I don't want Tom to leave!  He so super cute in those plus-fours and long socks :(

[nilyank]

 

I'm surprised that Mary hasn't figured out, or guessed, about Edith and Marigold.  I wouldn't say Mary is particularly bright, but there are plenty of clues and people like Mary can be clever in a viscious way when they want to think ill of someone.

That would require Mary to actually think about Edith and she would never do that.

 

 

What was Mrs. Drewe trying to accomplish by going to Cora?

 

It is too bad we didn't actually see that scene and we will all have to depend on our own imagination. Since I didn't care for Mrs Drewes, I am going to think she was tattling on Edith to her mother to get her in trouble. Her life is miserable because of what happens and she wants Edith to be miserable. Which is fine, she is entitled to be bitter. I just don't believe it had anything to do with the best interest of Marigold.

[alias1]

I just don't get the point of bringing Marigold to Downton, except to make Edith happy at the expense of the child (again).,  It seems to me she will always be looked down upon as a poor little orphan who had to be rescued.  I can't think she will ever be treated as equal to George or Sybbie. 

 

I thought Fellowes was trying to give the impression that Edith had been running the newspaper all this time, even though we never saw it.  We only ever saw sad sack Edith and her obsessive behavior with Marigold.  It's a problem with this show in general.  There always seems to be a lot missing. And later they can fill in the missing parts however they choose to.

[amensisterfriend]

Maybe they're deliberately setting up an arc where Mary becomes a touch more sympathetic and compassionate and Edith starts taking more responsibility for her own consistently poor choices and eventually, subtly the Mary/Edith relationship becomes a bit less contentious...? They're playing up the awfulness of both characters (especially Mary) and their relationship to an extent I don't think I've seen since S1, so I'd like to think it's for a specific purpose. 

 

...and then I remember how many other times I've thought and hoped that, only to have those dreams dashed :) 

[dahling]

Once again we were deprived of the moment of a character learning dramatic news. Cora was informed that Mrs. Drewe had arrived, so she cancelled the walk in the garden to meet with her. I was looking forward to this.

 

Instead, cut to Cora in her dressing room asking Violet and Rosamund how long they have known.  It would have been so much more satisfying to see Cora's initial reaction - disbelief, putting the pieces of the puzzle together, what she said to Mrs. Drewe, etc. But no. Not on this show.  

[jschoolgirl]

I hate the way the Bates(es?)

===

The plural of "Bates" is "Bateses".

[jah1986]

I really fault Julian for his handling of the Edith situation. Especially if Laura Carmichael has an idea of how the character is feeling, let's see that on screen. I wish there was a lot more we could have seen this episode, specifically Mrs. Drewe and Cora. Could have cut one or two Daisy scenes. I also would have liked to see Mrs. Patmore talking to Mr. Carson about the staff going to see Daisy's FIL.  I like Baxter and Moseley together. I like Atticus. I don't hate Edith and I hope everything works out for her and her daughter. Loved the scene with Tom and Sybbie, I don't think we see enough interaction with the children and their parents.

 

Lord Merton's sons were just horrible. I've never been a huge Isobel fan but that was just so unnecessarily harsh. I just wonder if they did go through with getting married and Lord Merton died how badly would his sons treat Isobel. I have no doubt they would throw her in the street.

 

I can't think too much about Isis, it's too painful. But I thought Donk and Cora were very sweet with her.

[Diane M]

I now think Mary's haircut makes her look too severe.

Considering Mary's nasty personality, I think the severe haircut suits her perfectly.

Edith hasn't been running the magazine since Gregson disappeared why does she think it can't run with her in America?

How do we know that she hasn't been making frequent trips to London to keep an eye on the business for her then missing lover?

 

I would think Edith would be much happier in London working in the business and making new friends and, basically, having a life.  However, she probably wants Marigold to be included in her family in York where she has cousins.  Edith could always take the train to London for a few days every couple of weeks, knowing that her daughter is happy and well taken care of.

 

I think Penelope Wilton did a great job showing her humiliation, while maintaining her pose.  She really didn't need to say a work.  My bet is that she will not marry Lord Merton.

[izabella]

What was Mrs. Drewe trying to accomplish by going to Cora?

 

 

She probably wanted to make sure her side of the story was told, because Mrs. Drewe has no reason to trust that Edith wouldn't throw her under the bus and somehow make trouble for them.  "Mama, Mrs. Drewe has treated me so horribly!"   "Robert, we should evict the Drewes.  They treated Edith so horribly!"  "Whatever you say, Cora."

 

Mrs. Drewe doesn't know that Edith isn't a favored child, like Mary.

Edited February 16, 2015 by izabella

[Black Knight]

I just adored the visuals of the scene at the train station. The clothes! The hair! Beautiful! I also liked how Cora and Edith keyed on Mary without even thinking of Anna, easily the bigger threat since she's so much more observant than Mary - it speaks to how the upstairs are so used to the downstairs as background they don't even really think about how the downstairs can know pretty much all their secrets without much trouble.

 

I feel for Mrs. Drewe, but I was glad this episode reminded viewers that she was going to lose Marigold anyway. If Edith had not taken her, Marigold would have been sent abroad to boarding school and grown up with no family at all. It wasn't a choice between Mrs. Drewe and Edith, it was a choice between Edith and boarding school. Edith was very unhappy about not being allowed to see Marigold but didn't make a move until Violet and Rosamunde decided on boarding school. Marigold is better off being raised by Edith as her "adopted" daughter than at boarding school without anyone.

 

I cheered when Violet smacked Mary down for her lack of compassion. And I think Mary took it somewhat to heart because she didn't make any nasty comments to Edith at the train station, and sounded somewhat sincerely concerned for Edith when she asked her if she wouldn't want to start a family of her own someday (which further carried the implication that she thinks Edith still can attract a man who'll want to marry her).

 

Anna is one of my favorites (when not around Mr. Bates) but she was getting on my nerves when she was gossiping to Mrs. Hughes, although I know that was quite realistic. But I still cheered when Mrs. Hughes put a stop to it. I love Mrs. Hughes. What Would Mrs. Hughes Do? is not a bad question for me to ask myself when I need to figure out something in my life...

 

It was nice to see Elizabeth McGovern get a few different notes to play. I quite enjoyed the scenes between her and Violet and Rosamunde, especially with Violet mentally squirming. It was amusing that Cora employed the tactic of waiting for Violet and Rosamunde to come see her, rather than summoning them immediately upon the end of her conversation with Mrs. Drewe as I'm sure they expected. She made them sit on tenterhooks until they couldn't stand it any longer. And I liked the tough honesty of the moment when Cora told Violet she'd never trust her again.

 

Poor Isobel. There was such a marked contrast between the dinner at which she announced her engagement, and the dinner with the horrible sons.

[amensisterfriend]

I totally want to lock those horrid Merton sons in a room with Sarah Bunting. I'm hoping no one would emerge alive... 

[lucindabelle]

Agreed re Mrs. Drewe. I found her hysterical and overdramatic and her going to the Crawleys to be more of the same.

It may have turned out well in the end, but that was not her intent. She did it to get Edith in trouble. Marigold's well-being? She may have told herself that's what drove her, but I doubt it.

She and her husband owe having a roof over their heads to the Crawleys. A fact she doesn't ever seem to remember.

 

I do not understand WHY Edith cares if Papa knows. At this point, seriously, who cares? Why does she even NEED his permission? I'm baffled.

 

I do think we're beginning to see a kinder, gentler Thomas, and I'm all for it.

 

Bratty Bateses annoy me no end.

[LadyintheLoop]

Cora thinks Edith has used and abused Mrs. Drewe and then turns around and comes up with a plan where Marigold is once again, although only temporary, with the Drewes.

Wish Mr. Drewe had told Cora to go suck an egg when she asked him to help them.

Once again Edith shows how much she is afraid of losing her position (such as it is) with everyone knowing about Marigold.  Wish Mrs. Drewe would take out an ad in the London newspaper and post it in every shop window in Downton Village and Ripon.

 

 

Under Cora's cover story, it would be only natural for the Drewes to maintain a relationship with Marigold. This, in turn, would give Mrs. Drewe a huge incentive to keep her trap shut.

 

Maybe Lord Sinderby will insist that Rose convert to Judaism if he's to accept the marriage.

 

 

[SoSueMe]

Couple of thoughts on this episode.

 

Too bad that the Tony/Mary situation was resolved in such a lightweight manner. I think there was a lot of room for some complex character development and plot devices like possible blackmail or even domestic violence due to Tony being rejected.

 

Merton's sons' treatment of Isobel might mean that Dr. Clarkson still has a chance. 

[kat165]

Scoobie & Eolivet, thank you for your comments. Personally, I didn't see any chemistry between Mary and either of her 2 suitors. I never did get the impression that either one of her suitors were gay though. I'm not sure Fellowes even knows how to write nuance. Both the actors were poor choices in terms of chemistry with Michelle Dockery, but I doubt Fellowes realized that even as the scenes played out. I was very surprised to see actual chemistry between Tony & Mabel Lane Fox. Although Dockery did seem to have chemistry with Dan Stevens, but I think a lot of that was just on Stevens' part. Both these suitors seemed rather asexual to me.

[Kohola3]

I'm not sure Fellowes even knows how to write nuance. Both the actors were poor choices in terms of chemistry with Michelle Dockery, but I doubt Fellowes realized that even as the scenes played out.

 

I think Fellowes must go to some sort of Actors Who All Look Alike catalog to cast the suitors, damn the chemistry.  I couldn't pick any one of them out of a line up - all bland average looking guys with lighter hair.  Even Atticus fits the mold.

 

Has Lord Merton only seen his sons for the obligatory hour a day when Nanny brought them down from the nursery?  He had no clue how horrible and mean-spirited they both are?  HE should have been the one to leap to his feet and chastise them.  A little less stiff-upper-lip (the toffs) and a little more revolutionary (Tom) would go along way to improve this wimpy group.  

 

Poor Isobel.  She looked so shocked and humiliated.  She didn't deserve to be blindsided like that.  I hope one of the kiddies doesn't pull out a knife - Lord Merton doesn't appear to be terribly protective.

[AZChristian]

 

 

Lord Merton's sons were just horrible. I've never been a huge Isobel fan but that was just so unnecessarily harsh. I just wonder if they did go through with getting married and Lord Merton died how badly would his sons treat Isobel. I have no doubt they would throw her in the street.

 

 

 

Well, the older son might inherit the title, but it seems that Lord Merton might be able to set up a trust fund for Isobel which would contain ALL of his assets.  In addition, the British entail law ended in 1925, so if we're at about that time of history, Dicky can leave his estate to whomever he wishes.  It would be fun to see Isobel kick the brats out of their home.

[Ina123]

I'm wondering why Fellowes chose to name the little girl, Marigold. It's bulky and ugly, I think, although, for the times it may have been popular. My big beef with the name is, would Edith really give her child a name that basically includes the name, "Mary"? I

doubt it.

[izabella]

I'm wondering why Fellowes chose to name the little girl, Marigold. It's bulky and ugly, I think, although, for the times it may have been popular. My big beef with the name is, would Edith really give her child a name that basically includes the name, "Mary"? I

doubt it.

 

I fully expect the next yellow lab to be named Queen Mary.

[pasdetrois]

 

what was up with the quite public display of tasteless class by Larry?  Aren't insults best served behind the back of the target or carefully cloaked in a way that the insultee would be too dense to comprehend?  It just seemed so out of character for the hoity toity of society to be so nasty to one's face.

 

Yeah, Fellowes had to clobber us over the head with the heavy-handed villainy to be sure us dunderheads would get the point. How much more delicious it would have been if Larry had imparted some Violet-style shade (not that making fun of class or ethnicity is ever OK).

 

But Mrs. Crawley, usually so unflappable, was visibly shaken at the hatred Larry spewed at her. It was one of the few times I felt sorry for a character on this series. The actress really pulled it off.

 

Robert can be insufferable but I just can't hate on a man who loves his Labrador so. RIP Isis - I'll miss your quiet scene-stealing and cheerful tail-wagging.

 

Twas nice to see Cora use her brain and assertiveness. Even though the plot is more laboriously tortured than ever. I was hoping we were done with the Marigold Drama.

 

Whoever said the Bateses were acting like Heathers made my morning. Hilarious! And so true.

Edited February 16, 2015 by pasdetrois

[PRgal]

Question: Did they really say Kin-NAY-Mah (opposed to sin-nay-mah) back then?  That's what I thought I heard.

[Constantinople]

So Tom's cousin has done well in Boston, but Tom either doesn't know what his cousin does, or declines to say.

 

Obviously Tom needs to move to Boston to join his cousin's rum running business.

 

Tom wouldn't even need to leave the show.  Remember in Season 2 how Captain Matthew Crawley set the WWI British Army record for most days spent on leave in England while technically still being on active duty?  Same idea.  From time-to-time, Tom would come back to England to check-up with his English partners.  When he's in Boston, they could do some split screen scenes.  Tom could dictate a telegram on his side while one of his Downton partners reads it on his/her side of the screen.  Tom could even bring in Cora's brother Harold as an off-screen partner in New York (unless we could get Paul Giamatti for a few more cameos).  After a season or so, Tom's brother Kiran would take over in Boston and Tom would move back to Downton.

 

So who would be Tom's partners back in England?

 

Possibilities

 

1. Thomas - Sure his black market shenanigans didn't work out after the War, but Thomas is always up for a caper, and Thomas could trust Tom.  Plus, money.  But could Tom fully trust Thomas?

 

2. Mary - I wouldn't say she'd be willing to do anything to get money for Downton, but if she's willing to roll around in the mud to save a few pigs, she might convince herself that it's one of those victimless crimes.

 

3. Daisy - Put all that book learning to good use.  Plus, how do you expect to bring about the dictatorship of the proletariat without exacerbating the contradictions of the capitalist system and its bourgeois morality?  She'd be fighting fire with fire (or at least firewater).

 

4. Lady Rosamund / Edith / Farmer Drewe - Hell no.  They're all terrible schemers.

 

5. John & Anna Bates: While their innumerable brushes with the criminal justice system may have led them to have less respect for the law, they're too priggish.

 

6. Carson - Probably not, but he's starting to think about retirement

[SusanSunflower]

Yes, Isobel is wise to let Merton simmer ... he failed miserably at that dinner, a preview of coming attractions, I'm afraid. I'm not big on chivalry but since the times and situation made it impossible for Isobel to defend herself (not her dinner table, not her invitation), it fell to Merton to control his sons (or leave with her on his arm). The Blake/Mary kiss was ridiculous (and ridiculously stagey). I saw some chemistry between Blake and Mary early on -- but yes, there's none now. I do wish he'd led her on only to drop her precipitously -- like a stone -- to go to Poland. 

 

I suspect at times some of the choppiness is when Fellowes realizes a scene "isn't working" -- since he's described as writing "under the gun" but there's no excuse and the big gaps in logic and "how real people behave" is distracting. To wit, didn't they say they had found Gregson's body? So, is his corpse to be returned, buried, funeral and crypt and all? His widow might bear a mention. In contrast to others, I found myself eye-rolling at Cora's "But, I'm her mother and I should have been told" thinking instead, "you're her mother and you should have noticed or simply wondered what you middle child was up to for the last year" Especially after she returned from a year abroad dejected and miserable. If Edith had been shown working at magazine -- occupying herself with work -- Cora's lack of commonplace conversational politeness might be excused, but she wasn't and it isn't. Oh well. Worst mother ever. 

[mac]

The scene with Mary and Granny was very good.  Granny showed us a different side and it was a side that I liked to see.  All this time I thought she was only concerned about the fact that Isobel would be a "lady", and there was rather more to her.  I especially liked it when she said that a lack of compassion is as vulgar as excessive tears.  I'm not sure if I got that line exactly right, but it was good to hear.

 

Cora is another character who has many layers.  On the one hand she shows the face of the gracious lady of the manor and appears to be powerless in the castle that her money saved.  Then, when something hits the fan, she's all steel and controlled fire.  I like that about her.

 

Isobel was absolutely crushed and PW played that scene so well.  Those words flattened her.  The spirit and sparkle came out of her, but she still managed to show a brave face to the others.  

 

Mary is now without a man.  I wonder.  Did the woman who can't manage to dress herself manage to use the contraceptive device properly?  Anna left without instructions.  Mary didn't use contraception while married to Matthew as far as we know, so would not be that familiar with things.  I wonder what Mary would do if her jaunt into wild sexual abandon resulted in a little bun in her oven.  Maybe the Stopes book spelled out the proper method.  Can't say that I liked anything about Mary's manner or disposition in this episode.

[shipperx]

Mary's haircut doesn't strike me as flattering. It gives her a fivehead.

And I wonder what the point is in emphasizing Mary's severity. Is it set up for future plot? I'm not talking of her utter disdain for Edith as that's totally normal at this point. I'm talking about the way they are having dialog pointing out negative traits. We have one of the suitor twins pointing out that she doesn't actually want Tony but she doesn't want him to not want HER either. Then there's the so wrong headed it's amusing moment where Mary completely misunderstands Isobel. Isobel never in the history of ever looked to Violet as a pattern card to follow. She and Violet have been friends because they secretly enjoy the back and forwarth, they know how not to push it too far, and they enjoy sitting on the sidelines making commentary. Isobel doesn't have an iota of subservient worship in her re the Dowager. If she did... The two of them wouldn't be friends. The alternative universeness of Mary's thought process here actually reminded me of her wacky plan to get further support from her disrespected American grandmother by thinking to show how essential they are by throwing a dinner party. Um, Mary, American Grandma lives in Newport. Conspicuous consumption isn't going to be a new concept for her. And they have the Dowager point out Mary's disinclination for compassion. That's a little on the nose piece of dialog saying the severity is deliberate. Coupled with a severe hair cut to style it up and I'm wondering whether upcoming love interest number whatever is planned to 'humanize' Mary again the way that Matthew did. They know they are painting her severe and brittle. ( a little genuine humor and not just snark would go a long way)

Re: Mrs Drewe, I agree with Nilyank that she was probably there to tattle to get Edith shamed by the family... But it's a total guess because as usual we don't get the scenes. We never do. We basically get to make up our own story because they don't show us.

For instance, I'm not sure where Mrs Drewe's reputation as a saintly Madonna comes from. We are given no scenes of her and the children on her own or of the family life, just her shewing Edith away. Rewatching last week, I still can't shake the feeling about mrs Drewe's macro complaint about Edith as Bored dilletante Being an inversion of Mrs Drewe's specific complaints about Edith being there too often or Mrs Drewe's reaction to Edith babysitting by flying into near hysterics and searching the premises as though Edith had run off with her. Contrary to her words, she was fearful of Edith being too attached and there too often. I still can't help thinking that deep down somewhere Mrs Drewe knew Marigold was Edith's biological child and that MRs Drewe was being defensive and possessive because of it. (And I still rather gasped at her shredding the birth certificate. I understand her anger and desperation but it disturbed me to see her angrily shred an important --and likely cherished-- document. )

But...

I make no claims that there's any text supporting any of this. No one has to buy the theory. I think the whole thing is written so sparely as to be a near Rorschach pattern. We see more what we bring to it than has actually been shown. We've never seen Mrs Drewe acting on her own rather than serving as an obstacle to story, therefore I hesitate to assign her selfless Madonna saintliness or overly possessive paranoia. We were never given enough information about her to draw informed conclusions about her as an individual or much if any clue to her motivations.

I don't begrudge Mrs Drewe anger and bitterness, and if she went to Cora to make trouble... Well, I can understand that.

Conversely, if I take a moment to stand in Edith's shoes, I can see why she does not have a positive impression of Mrs Drewe. The whole point of landing Marigold at Yew Tree Farm was so that Edith could see Marigold, but from the very first Mrs Drewe has been suspicious and defensive, accusing Edith of being a dilletante or resenting Edith's every arrival, often barring the door when Edith wanted to see Marigold most painfully after Edith learned Marigold's father had died ( not that Drewe knew it but that was Edith's emotional state) . There's never been a single scene where Mrs Drewe has been pleasant to Edith and this despite the fact that Edith's family went above the call of duty to allow the Drewe's the chance to assume Mr. Drewe's father's farm despite the Drewe's debt, Edith giving Mr Drewe support money for Marigold, and Edith offering yet more--this time public-- support as Marigold's benefactor, and yet never has there been a scene where Mrs Drewe was less than openly resentful.

Now, as a viewer, I do understand and sympathize with Mrs Drewe's feelings. If I were Edith, however, Mrs Drewe would appear very offputting and rude... Because that is the only attitude Mrs Drewe has shown her. Ever.

Annnnyway....

Loved Tom's scenes with both Sybbie and Robert. And his calling out Merton's asshole sons. Would have liked to have seen the scene with Cora and Mrs Drewe. Enjoyed Mosely and Baxter, and the Bates really could do with listening to Baxter for a moment. It want their best look. And as a dog lover, I totally understood Ribert's reactions even though As a TV viewer I may have laughed at his immediate 'maybe we should cancel the dinner' in the wake of it not being an option over the Gregson death announcement or Edith going MIA. I mean, I totally get it. If it were my dog dying, I'd be an emotional wreck and wouldn't have the dinner either. I get it. But the juxtaposition amused me. Poor Isis. I want puppies!

Overall I thought this one of the better episodes of the season. It seemed a bit more balanced with airtime for a variety of characters.

Edited February 16, 2015 by shipperx

[Constantinople]

To wit, didn't they say they had found Gregson's body? So, is his corpse to be returned, buried, funeral and crypt and all? His widow might bear a mention. 

 

Since Gregson left everything to Edith, I'm pretty sure Mrs Gregson would have died by now from starvation or lack of medical attention after being evicted by the asylum for lack of payment.

[shipperx]

I don't think they said Gregson left everything to Edith. I think they said he left her the newspaper. I'm not 100% positive bit that was the impression. Regardless even if he left Edith the bulk of it there's no reason to believe there isn't a trust for the wife. Since we've been told she's incompetent and institutionalized her finances would most likely be controlled by a trust and a lawyer or executor.

Edited February 16, 2015 by shipperx

[lucindabelle]

Merton stood at the other dinner, so maybe they just wanted to give someone else a chance.

That said "you bastard" wasn't the right thing to say. it should have been "you scoundrel/cad/bounder" or even "you sir are no gentleman, how dare you."

 

bastard just sounded a little silly.

 

I did like cora shutting Rosamund done with her America snipe.

[teddysmom]

My Dearest Lord Grantham

Late last week my dog awoke with a stiff neck and a slight limp. He was at the vet before noon that very day. Apparently he had just slept wrong, and with one or two mild pain relievers he was back to his old self the next day.

THAT IS HOW YOU TAKE CARE OF YOUR BELOVED DOG!!! YOU DO NOT LET HER LAY AROUND FOR WEEKS AND THEN FINALLY TAKE HER TO THE VET WHEN IT'S CONVENIENT.

Sincerely,

America

[CeeBeeGee]

If Edith wasn't such a wet noodle all the time and told Mary to f* off, I think she actually would. 

 

She did, last episode, when she tried to leave during Mary's flaunting of her haircut.  Mary made some snippy comment and Edith took her up.  I don't think anything Edith says or does will change Mary's behavior--I keep thinking of Edith reaching out in the aftermath of Sybil's death, saying "can't we be more like loving sisters?" and Mary essentially rejecting that.  It just seemed so obnoxious--if you can't cherish family bonds when you've lost your sister, there's something lacking in you.  I actually really do like Mary but not when she acts that way.

 

I find Cora's solution to Marigold a bit dubious BUT Edith has demonstrated that she's devoted to that girl, and she's also clear that she doesn't want her father to know, and I imagine it's better for Marigold to be raised with Sybil and George on equal terms. I did love them finding Edith at the publishing business, and Cora referring to "your employees." Cora is oblivious most of the time, but when she's made aware, I do like how she reacts much of the time. I liked that she immediately identified Edith's dilemma with Violet and Rosemund's solutions as she did NOT want to be separated from/lose her child, I liked that she would have been supportive if Edith had gone to America (this episode re-emphasized that Edith is NOT Sybil when it comes to standing up social convention), and realizing Edith wanted to keep an eye on the publishing business, came up with the ward/nursery solution. I find it so odd that Edith is living a completely unconventional life, but emotionally speaking, doesn't own it. She's running a publishing business and writes a column. She had an affair with her boss and kissed him in public. She's worn some very daring clothes (and looked gorgeous last night). She learned to drive when almost nobody knew how to drive. She does these things, but emotionally, doesn't appear to embrace what it means, even though she enjoys it. She still wants the approval she doesn't get.

 

Cee's response (I have a hard time with the reply function!):  "She wants the approval she doesn't get"--this makes total sense to me psychologically.  She's been starved of the kind of freely tendered approval that Mary and Sybil received, and is torn between trying to live her life as though she doesn't want it and doesn't care, and living the life of Lady Edith, daughter of the house.  Because when Robert DOES reach out to her on his infrequent way, it's intoxicating.  Intermittently given rewards are the best reinforcement of all.

It was nice to see Elizabeth McGovern get a few different notes to play. I quite enjoyed the scenes between her and Violet and Rosamunde, especially with Violet mentally squirming. It was amusing that Cora employed the tactic of waiting for Violet and Rosamunde to come see her, rather than summoning them immediately upon the end of her conversation with Mrs. Drewe as I'm sure they expected. She made them sit on tenterhooks until they couldn't stand it any longer. And I liked the tough honesty of the moment when Cora told Violet she'd never trust her again.

 

I adore Cora--I loved Elizabeth McGovern ever since Ordinary People, I think she's a terrific actress who is given NOTHING to do in this series.  I always love it when she finally gets scenes with some grit in them--getting rid of Pamuk's body, her treatment of Robert in the aftermath of Sybil's death, she always does them justice.

 

Agreed re Mrs. Drewe. I found her hysterical and overdramatic and her going to the Crawleys to be more of the same.

It may have turned out well in the end, but that was not her intent. She did it to get Edith in trouble. Marigold's well-being? She may have told herself that's what drove her, but I doubt it.

She and her husband owe having a roof over their heads to the Crawleys. A fact she doesn't ever seem to remember.

 

I want to give Mrs. Drewe the benefit of the doubt but I cringed when she flipped out a few episodes ago, running around the farm, convinced Edith had carried off Marigold.  Just ridiculous.  Well, regardless of her motives telling Cora (and yes, the Drewes do owe the Crawleys although I imagine this cancels the debt), the end result is that Marigold is ensconced at the Abbey as she should be, with her family.

 

Edited to add:  I sobbed out loud at Cora and Robert putting Isis between them on this last night.  So, so sweet.  How loving, and a sweet way to send off such a good dog.  It's so hard to say goodbye.

Edited February 16, 2015 by CeeBeeGee

[ZoloftBlob]

I dunno what is happening but this is the second time I've had a quote attributed to me that I totally don't remember.....

 

Maybe I am more clever than I thought?

[Kohola3]

Poor Robert : he was just carrying Isis around the whole time like a lost little child. He was even thinking about canceling the big dinner get-together due to Isis' failing health. That solidifies Isis as his favorite daughter for sure. I wouldn't be surprised if he dressed in full mourning clothes next week.

 

Why wouldn’t Isis be Robert’s favorite daughter???  No whining, no tantrums, no skulking off mysteriously.  If she invites someone to dinner, kibble is cheap and easy for Mrs. Patmore to fix.  No extra footman needed to serve it.  And with Isis, no NEED for proper cutlery.  No need for ANY cutlery.

 

No expensive dresses, only a collar.  And she can dress herself. 

[izabella]

want to give Mrs. Drewe the benefit of the doubt but I cringed when she flipped out a few episodes ago, running around the farm, convinced Edith had carried off Marigold.  Just ridiculous.

 

 

I didn't see it as riduculous at all.  She obviously knew there was something very wrong with what was going on with Marigold and Edith, and she was most certainly correct.  She just didn't know exactly what was the problem.  And, in the end, Mrs. Drewe was 100% right.  Edith did come back and carry off Marigold.

[CeeBeeGee]

I dunno what is happening but this is the second time I've had a quote attributed to me that I totally don't remember.....

 

Maybe I am more clever than I thought?

 

Zoloft, I I had intended to respond to your question about Matthew not receiving any of the subsidiary titles--namely, because he was the heir presumptive, not the heir apparent--and by the time I'd gotten through the thread, a bunch of other posters had responded so I tried to delete it.  Unsuccessfully!

[lucindabelle]

 

I didn't see it as riduculous at all.  She obviously knew there was something very wrong with what was going on with Marigold and Edith, and she was most certainly correct.  She just didn't know exactly what was the problem.  And, in the end, Mrs. Drewe was 100% right.  Edith did come back and carry off Marigold.

Oh, what was wrong?

She knew Edith didn't want the family to know. (from her husband, who didn't even want HER to know) In my opinion she did it JUST to be cruel.

 

Edith didn't come back to carry off Marigold. She already had Marigold. And it was Edith's baby, to whom Mrs. Drewe had not one single solitary legal right. I'm not sure what you're getting at.

 

I haven't seen any reason to like Mrs. Drewe. Maybe I'd feel differently if Fellowes had written that scene, or even one scene showing her interacting with marigold instead of acting rudely to Edith.