Traveller519 February 5, 2015 Share February 5, 2015 I enjoyed the rounding out of Thompson's character in this show. We know he's a good agent, but still generally an ass. Remorse over his war record and dealing with some PTSD support why when he can be in control of a situation he grasps it, because he sure didn't like not being in control of a situation. I was bummed that they had to trot someone else out to be the Hapless SSR Agent who gets shown up by Peggy. I'm not buying that the dedicated code breaker the SSR locked up post war was smart enough to recognize the cypher used but forgot to think about translating from the language the code was being sent from. Hopefully he and last weeks scientists all burned themselves up by not bothering to translate the label on some dangerous chemicals. The mutual respect looks likes it going to give way to some pretty hurt feelings next week. Link to comment
rozen February 5, 2015 Share February 5, 2015 I enjoyed the rounding out of Thompson's character in this show. We know he's a good agent, but still generally an ass. Remorse over his war record and dealing with some PTSD support why when he can be in control of a situation he grasps it, because he sure didn't like not being in control of a situation. I was bummed that they had to trot someone else out to be the Hapless SSR Agent who gets shown up by Peggy. I'm not buying that the dedicated code breaker the SSR locked up post war was smart enough to recognize the cypher used but forgot to think about translating from the language the code was being sent from. Hopefully he and last weeks scientists all burned themselves up by not bothering to translate the label on some dangerous chemicals. The mutual respect looks likes it going to give way to some pretty hurt feelings next week. Yea, that part kind of sucked. Then again, Carter didn't have Thompson and whatshisname leering over her shoulder in a recreation of every highschool bullying afterschool special. Link to comment
Jodithgrace February 5, 2015 Share February 5, 2015 (edited) My favorite part of the episode was the second cartoon they showed, the one with the subliminal messages. It was a very bizarre cartoon I remember from my High school days, starring Tom, Dick and Larry, aka The Dover Boys. The girl they all admire, Dora, is kidnapped by the evil Dan Backslide, and that's the scene they were showing in the episode. I don't think I've seen that cartoon in 40 years! The rest of the episode was good too, though I also missed a few key scenes because of the train crash. Edited February 5, 2015 by Jodithgrace 3 Link to comment
stealinghome February 5, 2015 Share February 5, 2015 Watching Peggy show up the codebreaker guy by translating the message was the typical "Peggy proves her worth but none of the men care" but I loved that it led to her insisting she go along on the mission in the field. I appreciated that for once, the boss--even if it was behind closed doors--both recognized that she was competent and treated her as if she was competent. I think mr carter is an open question, depending on if we get more shows or a movie out of this...but I still like Sousa for the role. He's cute and a war hero and obviously a smart investigator and basically decent guy. I don't see the problem. For me, Sousa would be...okay...as the Future Mr. Carter, but he just doesn't have enough spark/charisma for me to actively want it. The character (maybe actor) comes across as bland, and not really Peggy's equal. imo, Sousa seems like a Dollar Discount Steve Rogers--whereas I want Peggy to either have someone on Steve's level, or radically different. 3 Link to comment
Snarkette February 5, 2015 Share February 5, 2015 That. Is. Not. How. One. Time. Pads. Work. What do you think it is? A first edition of the Iliad for god's sake? 6 Link to comment
scarynikki12 February 5, 2015 Share February 5, 2015 The character (maybe actor) comes across as bland Enver's got charisma coming out of his pores, so I think he was instructed to dial it down for Sousa so that he fly under everyone's radar a bit. 12 Link to comment
NorthstarATL February 5, 2015 Share February 5, 2015 Something stupid was bugging me in Dottie's training flashback. It says 1937. Being a bit of a Disney nerd, that seemed too early for them to have Snow White on a film reel. I googled it, and sure enough, the film had it's premiere on December 21st. 1937. Since they do not look dressed for winter, this means they are watching the film before it is even released... I know it isn't important, just a nitpick as the MCU is usually better at continuity. Also; between this and the Age of Ultron trailer, they are getting a lot of use from their partnership with Disney... Just goes to show you how evil they were! They even managed to steal a Disney flick before it was released in Amerika! 11 Link to comment
Rocket February 5, 2015 Share February 5, 2015 Fan Wank on the one time pad is it is a one time pad that Peggy got set of and memorized them all, way out there especially as this is an unknown organization something was left out of the description. But if one time pad the agent would have had it somewhere in the room or on his person they could have handled it that way, the code sheet was sitting on the table where she was decoding just that no one had been able to use it as it was in Russian showing that the expert they brought in was incompetent. I actually think that was the way the writers wanted the scene to go but it got botched in the filming. To bad this show not getting the promotion in advance and good word of mouth it needs as it is excellent. 1 Link to comment
Izeinwinter February 5, 2015 Share February 5, 2015 The only way to break a one time pad is to *have* the pad. That specific pad. They are not reused, hence the "One Time" part, so the implication is that they got the pad along with the typewriter, in which case decoding it is within the abilities of a moderately clever 9 year old. So appears the cryptographer couldnt even recognize plain-text russian when he tried that. That's painful, The Soviets did use one time pads as a standard measure, however, so that's historically accurate, and while the NSA did eventially crack a tiny fraction of those communications due to agents being morons about the one time part, mostly they never got anywhere. Because it's not breakable. 1 Link to comment
shapeshifter February 5, 2015 Share February 5, 2015 Thompson's predicament is even more affecting when you remember that IJA troops in World War II had a long and storied habit of faking surrender or injury before they launched suicide attacks on American troops. It is also believable if that the army (or Navy in this case) was fine with him killing them, doesn't mean that he doesn't still feel some guilt and it eats at him that people see him as a hero when he does not....Both of these leave room for the character of Thompson to have a personal revelation should the show get picked up for more episodes in spite of the poor ratings. 1 Link to comment
Llywela February 5, 2015 Share February 5, 2015 My one complaint about an otherwise spectacular episode was the contrivance of Sousa seeing the scars on Peggy's shoulder, digging through her war records, and only THEN breaking out the magnifying glass to find the same scars on the mystery blonde. If they'd just briefly shown him poring over the photos and noticing that detail as an identifying mark at the start of the episode it would have made a lot more sense for him to zero in on that feature when he got the two second glimpse of Peggy and get suspicious afterwards. As it was, "Hmmm, my co-worker who spent two years in Europe fighting the Nazis has gunshot scars--she must be the woman I've been investigating!" just doesn't make much sense To be fair, we have seen him poring over those photos repeatedly over the last few episodes, enough that I can believe his seeing the scar on Peggy's shoulder would set alarm bells ringing. It is a pretty distinctive mark. 5 Link to comment
Amethyst February 5, 2015 Share February 5, 2015 For me, Sousa would be...okay...as the Future Mr. Carter, but he just doesn't have enough spark/charisma for me to actively want it. The character (maybe actor) comes across as bland, and not really Peggy's equal. imo, Sousa seems like a Dollar Discount Steve Rogers--whereas I want Peggy to either have someone on Steve's level, or radically different. ITA. Sousa is nice, but he has yet to wow me. I know it's hard to be in Capt. America's shadow, but Sousa is so dull and I can't see Peggy ending up with him. I don't think they have any chemistry. 3 Link to comment
Raja February 5, 2015 Share February 5, 2015 How much did I love this? So, so much. It was great to see Peggy in the field, and learn more about Thompson, although I agree with this review: http://www.avclub.com/tvclub/marvels-agent-carter-iron-ceiling-214761 That CMM is playing a time period archetype rather than a specific character. If I'm going to actually care how he feels about Peggy he needs to become someone specific. But what I really liked about this one is well it fits the historical context. For a comic book show, it fits really well into the actual historical period (apart from the MCU's decision to totally ignore segregation, of course). Based on the past episode, it's October 1946 and the Cold War is just beginning. I've seen people wonder whether the show will feature a supervillain behind the theft, but it seems more and more like the enemy here is the real life supervillain known as Josef Stalin. It IS strange that the show never uses the words "Soviet Union" or "Stalin" since things were getting very tense in Eastern Europe about this time. The time period also fits for the theft of superweapons. In the real world, the Soviets were stripping East Germany bare, dismantling whole factories and shipping them back to Russia to help rebuild their war-devastated industrial capacity. This is the era when the US had a legitimate superweapon (the Bomb) and the Soviets didn't. It makes sense for the Russians to go to great lengths for a deterrent. I doubt Leviathan wants an attack on US soil - but whoever Leet Brannis was selling them to definitely did. Why? They set the mode in The First Avenger when they set the focus on Hydra and deemphasized the Nazis. Now we have a Strategic Scientific Reserve who had no mission, it was just a new cop agency until the suspicion was thrown on their WWII contractor Howard Stark. Sitting in their New York office and running missions/investigations reminds me of dare I say it the NCIS formula. We have SSR trying to find the one bogeyman in Stark in the states. Perhaps with European SSR agents still working with a deployed 107th Regiment to run down Hydra suvivors but as far as I can tell has no ideal that there is a Soviet counterpart out there. Perhaps by a second series or the end of this one the focus will shift from Stark to the Soviets. Link to comment
fastiller February 5, 2015 Share February 5, 2015 That. Is. Not. How. One. Time. Pads. Work. What do you think it is? A first edition of the Iliad for god's sake? Yep. A quick read of Leo Mark's Between Silk & Cyanide (a great book, btw) would've told 'em that! 1 Link to comment
paigow February 5, 2015 Share February 5, 2015 Just goes to show you how evil they were! They even managed to steal a Disney flick before it was released in Amerika! Disney was probably going to release it that summer, but pushed back the release date when they discovered the theft and received threatening letters.... 6 Link to comment
Sakura12 February 5, 2015 Share February 5, 2015 I love seeing Peggy in action and getting the respect she deserved. I loved the Howling Commandos just going with Peggy being in charge even when Thomson said he was. I still think Thompson's an ass but I'm glad he saw that Peggy wasn't just sitting behind a desk during the war and that she was on the battlefield with the rest of them. She also got some respect from her boss. Thompson being in Japan takes him out of the husband pool. While Sousa hasn't done much, he is the only one that would believe Peggy was capable of being a double agent. I'm interested to see what happens with them in the next episode. Dottie is crazy and either wants to kill Peggy or be her. Either way it's kind of flattering for Peggy that she's seen as a threat. It was nice seeing the Red Room and the beginnings of the Black Widow project. It would be interesting if they made the little girl Natasha. 2 Link to comment
Ottis February 5, 2015 Share February 5, 2015 Yet another episode where Peggy is minimized because she is a woman, she kicks ass better than the men, Stark dropped a bit of mystery (not in person this time, but through the presence of the 'Stark" blueprints), and the butler seems caught in some kind of web we don't understand, yet. But this time, they added on the "seemingly confident, successful guy who minimized Peggy is harboring a secret that undermines his seeming confidence, success" hoary device (so not only is he a jerk, he is a hypocritical jerk and a coward - but Peggy handles him juuuuust riiiiiiight). And next week, it appears to be the "Peggy is framed as a bad guy!" cliche (who will believe in her when the chips are down?!). At least Souza and their top boss were able to show that they were able to do something halfway intelligent. Meanwhile, I am not even sure what they accomplished on their mission aside from getting some guys killed. The squee I guess came from meeting the 107th (who I don't know, since I don't follow the comics). This show is slow and seems hellbent on putting Carter on a pedestal to the detriment of everyone around her. I'm out. Link to comment
Raja February 5, 2015 Share February 5, 2015 (edited) Meanwhile, I am not even sure what they accomplished on their mission aside from getting some guys killed. The squee I guess came from meeting the 107th (who I don't know, since I don't follow the comics). This show is slow and seems hellbent on putting Carter on a pedestal to the detriment of everyone around her. I'm out. I don't know if the 107th are in the comics or just the cinematic universe. In real life the 107th Infantry regiment was one of the New York National Guard Units with the 369th being the "colored", Black and Afro Latino, infantry regiment. Captain America's best friend Bucky Barnes enlisted in the 107th and was captured in Italy when Captain America on a war bond tour he went awol and rescued Sergeant Barnes in his first combat mission. At that point the 107th Regiment seemed more or less assigned to the Strategic Scientific Reserve, an OSS like outfit and key members of the 107th who were from many nations and outfits before becoming prisoners, with Sergeant Barnes became the special operations team the Howling Commandos lead by Captain Rogers/America. The promos would have said Howling Commandos because of Dum Dum Dugan the bowler wearing Neal McDonough who was also in The First Avenger, the other members seen in this episode where not shown with Captain America in the movie and presumably were replacements for the veterans after the war. The show in Peggy's voice however said 107th edit to add in some of the shorts and sequences on Agents of SHIELD we know Agent Carter lead the Howling Commandos on some missions after Sergeant Barnes and Captain Rogers were lost and presumed dead. Edited February 5, 2015 by Raja Link to comment
that one guy February 5, 2015 Share February 5, 2015 Where did you get October from? I've been wondering exactly when in 1946 we are, and given how glitchy my DVR was last night, I very well may have missed something. It wasn't in the episode. When Dooley is interviewing the Nazi Muller, he says that Wilhelm Keitel was hanged "yesterday" and it took him a long time to die. Keitel was a real war criminal, and was hanged on October 16, 1946. Therefore Dooley's interview with Muller occurred on October 17. 1 Link to comment
Snorfbat February 5, 2015 Share February 5, 2015 My favorite part of the episode was the second cartoon they showed, the one with the subliminal messages. It was a very bizarre cartoon I remember from my High school days, starring Tom, Dick and Larry, aka The Dover Boys. The girl they all admire, Dora, is kidnapped by the evil Dan Backslide, and that's the scene they were showing in the episode. I don't think I've seen that cartoon in 40 years! The rest of the episode was good too, though I also missed a few key scenes because of the train crash. If Jodithgrace is right then the film was apparently the 1942 Chuck Jones cartoon "The Dover Boys at Pimento University", which slipped into the public domain because United Artists didn't renew a copyright. The summary on Wikipedia says that after the villainous Dan Backslide kidnaps the Dover Boys' fiancee, Dora, "while she and the Dover Boys are playing hide-and-seek, spiriting her away to a remote mountain lodge. But Backslide soon discovers that despite appearances, Dora is anything but dainty; she proceeds to administer a sound thrashing to the villain, all the while acting the damsel in distress—crying for help and pounding on the door (with the locks on her side) and on Backslide—until he is himself crying out for help from Tom, Dick, and Larry." Sounds like a great film for young murderesses. You can watch it at https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=dpOPyjmB8SI 3 Link to comment
chaifan February 5, 2015 Share February 5, 2015 The only thing that disappointed me about this episode is that I was really hoping Thompson and his guys would get to see Peggy kick a little ass. Yeah, the fact she can shoot was probably a bit of a surprise, but I was hoping for a fistfight where she didn't need to be rescued by one of the boys, or better yet, would have rescued one of them. That would have gotten the guys back at the office talking! 1 Link to comment
ChelseaNH February 5, 2015 Share February 5, 2015 the villainous Dan Backslide kidnaps the Dover Boys' fiancee, Dora Dora is engaged to all three Dover Boys? Hmm, were cartoons not subject to the Production Code? Link to comment
Jodithgrace February 5, 2015 Share February 5, 2015 She is always referred to as "their" fiancée. 1 Link to comment
Vapor February 6, 2015 Share February 6, 2015 The thing about Sousa not being worthy of Carter's affections is interesting. We chiefly remember her as having a romance with Captain America, but really, she had already begun falling in love with Steve before he ever got that title. When he was a scrawny, little man who was shorter and weaker than she was. It was his heart that moved her. His sense of justice. His respect. His willingness to fight even though it was obvious that he would be killed in two seconds if ever put into a real battle. Now, Sousa is most definitely not Steve Rogers. But I guess I never expected Carter's husband to be like that anyway. As unromantic as it sounds, I just assumed that the guy she ends up marrying is simply not as good as him. That she would love him, and see herself with him forever, but if Steve magically came back into her life, it would complicate things severely, because she just plain loves him more and no one will ever fully compare. It doesn't mean she can't be happy, and have a full, complete life with someone she cares for. Sousa doesn't have to be amazing to be the future Mr. Carter- he just has to be a decent man. Unless he's evil. Or just a good friend. Or whatever. 9 Link to comment
crabbypants February 6, 2015 Share February 6, 2015 Sitting in their New York office and running missions/investigations reminds me of dare I say it the NCIS formula. I feel like NCIS did a better job characterizing their agents. I never had a problem telling DiNozzo from McGee. I can't differentiate one SSR guy from another, aside from Sousa. 1 Link to comment
Raja February 6, 2015 Share February 6, 2015 I feel like NCIS did a better job characterizing their agents. I never had a problem telling DiNozzo from McGee. I can't differentiate one SSR guy from another, aside from Sousa.To be fair the SSR main cast is smaller. There is no DiNozzo, Ducky or Abby. Just the Cheif/Director, Thompson/Gibbs, Carter/Kate and Ziva and Sousa/McGee.What the office is tasked to do when local police and the FBI exists is the real similarity that I am seeing. Link to comment
Danny Franks February 6, 2015 Share February 6, 2015 I feel like NCIS did a better job characterizing their agents. I never had a problem telling DiNozzo from McGee. I can't differentiate one SSR guy from another, aside from Sousa. So you mean you can't tell the difference between Thompson and Dooley? I don't find them similar in any respect, really. But those are the only three 'characters' other than Peggy who work there. The rest are extras who might have names. 4 Link to comment
crabbypants February 6, 2015 Share February 6, 2015 (edited) So you mean you can't tell the difference between Thompson and Dooley? Not really. I think Thompson is supposed to be blonder but they're pretty interchangeable to me. ETA: I read the recaps to see who did what. Edited February 6, 2015 by crabbypants Link to comment
Kel Varnsen February 7, 2015 Share February 7, 2015 Great episode, but they totally should have given that reporter guy an eye patch. He could have been Phil Sheldon. Link to comment
Terrafamilia February 8, 2015 Share February 8, 2015 Disney was probably going to release it that summer, but pushed back the release date when they discovered the theft and received threatening letters.... Hollywood was filled with commies, dontchaknow, Apparently they were also busy with the film piracy long before the Chinese. :-) Link to comment
benteen February 8, 2015 Share February 8, 2015 They set the mode in The First Avenger when they set the focus on Hydra and deemphasized the Nazis. Now we have a Strategic Scientific Reserve who had no mission, it was just a new cop agency until the suspicion was thrown on their WWII contractor Howard Stark. Sitting in their New York office and running missions/investigations reminds me of dare I say it the NCIS formula. We have SSR trying to find the one bogeyman in Stark in the states. Perhaps with European SSR agents still working with a deployed 107th Regiment to run down Hydra suvivors but as far as I can tell has no ideal that there is a Soviet counterpart out there. Perhaps by a second series or the end of this one the focus will shift from Stark to the Soviets. I'm glad I was the only one who noticed they haven't used the words Soviet Union. They did use the word "Reds" once. Link to comment
Kel Varnsen February 8, 2015 Share February 8, 2015 (edited) I'm glad I was the only one who noticed they haven't used the words Soviet Union. They did use the word "Reds" once. I also find it interesting that at least so far, the levithan seems to be a completely different orginization than HYDRA. I.can't remember, does this season take place before or after Peggy and Dum Dum raided that HYDRA camp in Agentd of Shield? Edited February 8, 2015 by Kel Varnsen Link to comment
Raja February 8, 2015 Share February 8, 2015 I also find it interesting that at least so far, the levithan seems to be a completely different orginization than HYDRA. I.can't remember, does this season take place before or after Peggy and Dum Dum raided that HYDRA camp in Agentd of Shield? I think it is different, but that doesn't mean Hydra would not have done the same to Leviathan, AIM, Oscorp (if the deal goes through).... that it did to SHIELD. After all The Nazis fought on two fronts long before the USA entered WWII. Link to comment
KirkB February 9, 2015 Share February 9, 2015 I imagine the Hydra camp Peggy and the Commandos raided was at the tail end of the war, before she was rotated home. As for Hydra's infiltration, while I agree there is no reason they wouldn't jump all over an organization like Leviathan (assuming it's not one of theirs in the first place) I got the impression from Winter Soldier that Hydra didn't start doing any of that until well after the war, when Nazis and Hydra agents got recruited through Operation Paperclip and the like. Link to comment
Raja February 9, 2015 Share February 9, 2015 I imagine the Hydra camp Peggy and the Commandos raided was at the tail end of the war, before she was rotated home. Over on Agents Of SHIELD there are extensive scenes showing Agent Carter with SSR insignia on her uniform that is dated 1945. So after Captain America was presumed dead and before working in plain clothes in 1946 New York. Link to comment
theatremouse February 11, 2015 Share February 11, 2015 At first, I felt bad for flashback Dottie, having to kill her new found friend. And then I thought, what if she intentionally gave the girl bread to weaken her mentally, if she knew they were fighting that day? Dottie scares the crap out of me.I might be recalling it incorrectly, but I thought the bread exchange went the other way around. So they set it up so we'd assume she had a twinge of guilt killing the girl who was nice to her to begin with, but nope, ruthless.When Dooley is interviewing the Nazi Muller, he says that Wilhelm Keitel was hanged "yesterday" and it took him a long time to die. Keitel was a real war criminal, and was hanged on October 16, 1946. Therefore Dooley's interview with Muller occurred on October 17.This is interesting because now we're in the awkward position of assuming they got the dates right on that bit, but not on when Snow White was released. Normally I'm ok ignoring a minor continuity error as TV handwavey "oops", but then when the same show relies on other such details the conflict bugs me more. Sigh. Link to comment
Taryn74 February 22, 2015 Share February 22, 2015 I'm going to have to go back and watch the bit about the girls and the bread. I assumed they were friends (as much as they could be, anyway) and that's why it was so shocking when Dottie (?) snapped the girl's neck with no hesitation. Link to comment
Chas411 August 15, 2015 Share August 15, 2015 Watching this in the UK and I agree that this episode is one of the strongest. I knew they were going to round out Thompsons character at some point and though I like his banter with Carter I do think they're setting up Sousa to become the eventual husband. Link to comment
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