S05.E10: House Of Cards

[CaughtOnTape]

Some people think that if Kyle is going to take on the babysitting and guardian task of Kim, that she should do it fully.  They also might think that Kyle should relieve herself of this self-appointed obligation.  Best way to get Kim to take ownership is to be consistent and let her own it.  Not easy.

 

This didn't answer my question.  But thanks.

 

And I also don't understand why we're still going round and round about the wine tasting.  Kim stated she didn't have an issue with it...multiple times.  The point of contention is poker night.  Where Kim perceived some slight by Kyle.  

Edited January 22, 2015 by CaughtOnTape

[Mozelle]

I'm confused.

 

I'm hearing that Kyle needs Al-Anon to let go of her need to fix everything for Kim and that Kyle enjoys having to clean up after Kim because it elevates her martyr status.

 

And then I'm hearing the same people comment that Kyle or the hotel or some peeon production assistant who has no clue that Kim is an addict and simply wants to do his/her 8 hours and go home should have made adjustments because God forbid Kim get put in a situation with alcohol that she cannot handle.

 

So....when exactly does Kim's addiction become her problem that she needs to worry about and deal with on her own?

 

Ma'am. Just as I was saying in the First Look thread last week after the preview for this week's episode aired, Kyle will get the brunt of it because it makes it easier to treat Kim as though she's a paper doll with no agency whatsoever. That's the "price" Kyle pays for having her shit together, I suppose.

 

Can someone clarify what Kyle did to Brandi to "justify" this whipsaw hatred? One episode they're hiking together, and the next thing I know Brandi is attacking her. (And don't tell me it's concern for Kim.). In Brandi's tortured mind, does she think tearing down Kyle will endear her to Lisa V?!

 

I ordinarily side eye claims of envy between HWs (well, between women actually), but I have to wonder if that's the case with Brandi as it pertains to Kyle. Kyle has a husband who Brandi thinks is attractive (she said as much in the season where Brandi hosted the party at her friend's Malibu home) and she has a close relationship with her daughters. 

[ryebread]

I'm confused.

 

I'm hearing that Kyle needs Al-Anon to let go of her need to fix everything for Kim and that Kyle enjoys having to clean up after Kim because it elevates her martyr status.

 

And then I'm hearing the same people comment that Kyle or the hotel or some peeon production assistant who has no clue that Kim is an addict and simply wants to do his/her 8 hours and go home should have made adjustments because God forbid Kim get put in a situation with alcohol that she cannot handle.

 

So....when exactly does Kim's addiction become her problem that she needs to worry about and deal with on her own?

 

My thoughts are simple and hopefully not too confusing.  Kyle has the ability to make adjustments, if she chooses.  Change of venue, check.  Don't call her sister an alcoholic on TV, check.  Quit this show, check. But if she doesn't want to/can't do those things, she needs to let it go and stop trying to fix things for Kim*. 

 

Come what may with hell to pay.

 

*if fixing things for Kim is what she's really been trying to do

[haydensterling]

The spa?  This isn't filmed in real time. Each scene has to be set and staged.  Kyle (since she is the host for the trip, I am mentioning her), could have asked the spa manager to bring food and explained that she thought it was wine with meal and not a straight up wine tasting.   I don't fault her for going with the flow.  It's extra effort and perhaps she was tired of requesting accommodations. 

 

I'm just going to share very briefly my experiences.  I worked for MTV in NYC (old Viacom) from 1994 to 1999 and then based out of LA until 2009 for various Viacom owned channels.  On set, as a member of crew, while tape is rolling.  I was a set decorator and for a very brief period, designer in art department, but you'd be surprised at how much tweaking there is even on reality shows, two of which I worked on while I was at MTV.  That wine tasting room was lovely, but I can guarantee you that things were brought in to fill camera space.  Anyhow.

The person who is going to decide if things are going to be adjusted, or to 'have food brought in' or anything that has to do with what occurs on the company's dime is a producer.  Not Kyle.  Because time is money, and you don't waste time.   The one person who may have some clout in this regard is Lisa, but that would have to do only with VP, not RHoBH, as she is (to my understanding) an executive producer on said program.   I'm sorry, but from my time in the industry I can't agree with your statement.

[LotusFlower]

I'm confused.

 

I'm hearing that Kyle needs Al-Anon to let go of her need to fix everything for Kim and that Kyle enjoys having to clean up after Kim because it elevates her martyr status.

 

And then I'm hearing the same people comment that Kyle or the hotel or some peeon production assistant who has no clue that Kim is an addict and simply wants to do his/her 8 hours and go home should have made adjustments because God forbid Kim get put in a situation with alcohol that she cannot handle.

 

So....when exactly does Kim's addiction become her problem that she needs to worry about and deal with on her own?

My posts on Kyle have been on 1) the Kyle who I'm sympathetic towards, who, imo, desperately needs Al-Anon or counseling of some sort, because she has been so distressed over her alcoholic sister since season 1; and 2) the Kyle I see, who I'm less sympathetic towards and pretty frustrated with, since she plays up the martyr role and continues this dance with her sister. Frankly, if Kyle learned how to set boundaries with Kim, they wouldn't even be on this show together. But since they are, and Kyle was the supposed organizer of the spa get-away, she could have dealt with the wine tasting differently. It wasn't a big deal, but her passivity and then her "are you ok?" question bothered me. I don't think the two are mutually exclusive.

[Cherrio]

First post here, so please excuse if this has been covered already.

         I see Kim, Kyle and older sister Kathy as coming from a very messed up family.  Big Kathy the mother was a strange person who schooled her daughters in marrying rich and pushing show biz.  

         Kim by many accounts supported her whole family working as a child.   I think that is where the love/hate between the two sisters stems from. Kim resented it, Kyle was jealous of Kim's stardom and the list goes on and on.

          I think Kim was damaged by her childhood, so my little bit of sympathy goes with her.  I think Kyle's concern is an act for the show. 

[ryebread]

The person who is going to decide if things are going to be adjusted, or to 'have food brought in' or anything that has to do with what occurs on the company's dime is a producer.  

 

How difficult would it have been to remove the wine?  You get iced tea!  And YOU get iced tea! 

 

Bottom line is, Kim said she wasn't affected.  (Although we know she's poppin' pills the very next day. Hmm.)  Kyle was obviously concerned because she asked Kim a couple times if she was okay.  If she had a concern about her alcoholic sister and it wasn't possible to move to a part of the resort that, wasn't a bar, then there are other smaller requests she might have made.  Maybe she did and production said no.

[Lola16]

I'm just going to share very briefly my experiences.  I worked for MTV in NYC (old Viacom) from 1994 to 1999 and then based out of LA until 2009 for various Viacom owned channels.  On set, as a member of crew, while tape is rolling.  I was a set decorator and for a very brief period, designer in art department, but you'd be surprised at how much tweaking there is even on reality shows, two of which I worked on while I was at MTV.  That wine tasting room was lovely, but I can guarantee you that things were brought in to fill camera space.  Anyhow.

The person who is going to decide if things are going to be adjusted, or to 'have food brought in' or anything that has to do with what occurs on the company's dime is a producer.  Not Kyle.  Because time is money, and you don't waste time.   The one person who may have some clout in this regard is Lisa, but that would have to do only with VP, not RHoBH, as she is (to my understanding) an executive producer on said program.   I'm sorry, but from my time in the industry I can't agree with your statement.

Last time I was on set was 2012, before I switched careers and then went back to school.  I've worked with actors and non-actors.  I've been on both sides of the camera.  I've held many positions.  The only absolute is there are no absolutes.  I did not have the same experience you did.  And I know personally about accommodations made for participants and those on the business side.  Could Kyle (or anyone) have requested?  Yes.  Would they have been accommodated?  Maybe.  One thing I think all can agree on (maybe) is that Bravo likes alcohol fueled parties.  It's all about the drama and ratings for them.

[haydensterling]

I guess we'll have to agree to disagree, then, Lola16. The industry must have changed dramatically from 2009 onward with regard to talent and what they are allowed to request from production. 

Edited January 22, 2015 by haydensterling

[Persnickety1]

FULL DISCLOSURE:  I'm behind in my usual caffeine consumption for this time of day so maybe I'm missing something.

 

Kim said she was fine with the wine tasting event.

 

Kim had what appeared to be a very upbeat (juvial, even!) outing with Kyle shopping and lunching and again expressed her lack of displeasure at the wine tasting event.

 

Kim appeared to be lucid, coherent, and normal (for Kim) during the shopping trip.

 

Fast forward to the poker game.

 

Kyle and Brandi arrive after Lisa and Kim.

 

Kim hugs Kyle in greeting.  

 

Now, can someone please tell me how Kyle was supposed to divine that Kim would be 50 shades of Fucked Up City when she arrived at the poker night?

 

I love you all like a fat kid loves cake but I just can't follow all of this shade Kyle's way.

 

It appeared to me she was just as taken aback by Kim's condition as the viewing audience was and reacted to it.

 

Like, you know, a regular human being would.  Wait, is my sister really fucked up or is it me?  Wait, is my sister actually mad at me for something?

 

I'm just not following how Kyle somehow masterminded this into a storyline.

 

Forgive me whilst I go consume more caffeine and try to wrap my head around it.  

Edited January 23, 2015 by Persnickety1

[Lola16]

I guess we'll have to agree to disagree, then, Lola16. The industry must have changed dramatically from 2009 onward with regard to talent and what they are allowed to request from production. 

I think it's more of a case that not all productions of every show are the same.  Though I would hazard to guess that the RH are pretty crappy across the cities based on what has been leaked about the NJ and MIA crews and all the underhanded BS.

FULL DISCLOSURE:  I'm behind in my usual caffeine consumption for this time of day so maybe I'm missing something.

 

Kim said she was fine with the wine tasting event.

 

Kim had what appeared to be a very upbeat (juvial, even!) outing with Kyle shopping and lunching and again expressed her lack of displeasure at the wine tasting event.

 

Kim appeared to be lucid, coherent, and normal (for Kim) during the shopping trip.

 

Fast forward to the poker game.

 

Kyle and Brandi arrive prior to Lisa and Kim.

 

Kim hugs Kyle in greeting.  

 

Now, can someone please tell me how Kyle was supposed to divine that Kim would be 50 shades of Fucked Up City when she arrived at the poker night?

 

I love you all like a fat kid loves cake but I just can't follow all of this shade Kyle's way.

 

It appeared to me she was just as taken aback by Kim's condition as the viewing audience was and reacted to it.

 

Like, you know, a regular human being would.  Wait, is my sister really fucked up or is it me?  Wait, is my sister actually mad at me for something?

 

I'm just not following how Kyle somehow masterminded this into a storyline.

 

Forgive me whilst I go consume more caffeine and try to wrap my head around it.  

I don't think Kyle masterminded anything.  I do think Lisa R texted Kyle about Kim's behavior in the limo.

[motorcitymom65]

 

 

What I took away from Sincerely Yours post is that last minute adjustments could have been made.  Because with this group of bitches, the wine tasting could have turned into one big fat disaster, which I'm thinking Lisa Vanderpump might have rawh-ther enjoyed, darling.

Oh, I get it.  I honestly thought I must have missed something. There has been so much talk about the wine tasting, and in the context of a real ho'wife show, it went really well. No real drama there to speak of. Kim said the only thing that made it awkward for her was that folks kept checking in on her. I am assuming having the entire event moved would have bothered her more.  It was actually nice IMO to see everyone behaving themselves in this instance. Kyle showed concern for her sister, the other gals did as well, and Kim actually handled this one thing with grace and humor.  All around it was a pretty good showing. 

[Persnickety1]

I think it's more of a case that not all productions of every show are the same.  Though I would hazard to guess that the RH are pretty crappy across the cities based on what has been leaked about the NJ and MIA crews and all the underhanded BS.

I don't think Kyle masterminded anything.  I do think Lisa R texted Kyle about Kim's behavior in the limo.

 

Thanks, Lola16.

 

Yeah, if I followed it right in the previews, Lisa had texted Kyle that Kim didn't appear to be feeling well.

 

Which was clearly a tactful and diplomatic understatement but Kyle might not have read between the lines.

 

LisaR was probably more subtle than I would have been.  I'd have just texted, "Kim's all sorts of fucked up...Suggestions?"

 

I can't wait to see tonight's first look, although I doubt it will clarify a lot but at least it's a teaser!  

[zoeysmom]

The spa?  This isn't filmed in real time. Each scene has to be set and staged.  Kyle (since she is the host for the trip, I am mentioning her), could have asked the spa manager to bring food and explained that she thought it was wine with meal and not a straight up wine tasting.   I don't fault her for going with the flow.  It's extra effort and perhaps she was tired of requesting accommodations. 

Shouldn't Kim be the one asking if it bothers her?  WTH is Kyle suppose to intervene?  The place is big but I think they all probably get direction at the same time.  Kyle offered to leave with Kim and stated the wine tasting was cut short.  Again the term host is used pretty loosely in these situations.

[SoCal4Us]

Kyle said it in her blog.

 

Sorry here's the quote from Kyle's blog:

"However, being put into a situation where we are supposed to be interacting, like a wine tasting where she couldn't even participate, felt awful. I never would have intentionally put Kim in that situation. In fact, I offered to leave but Kim insisted she was fine. We didn't stay long and got out of there."

Edited January 23, 2015 by SoCal4Us

[zoeysmom]

Can someone clarify what Kyle did to Brandi to "justify" this whipsaw hatred? One episode they're hiking together, and the next thing I know Brandi is attacking her. (And don't tell me it's concern for Kim.). In Brandi's tortured mind, does she think tearing down Kyle will endear her to Lisa V?!

Pretty much sport.  Brandi and Kim want to take over the show because of their special brand of humor and they need to humiliate Kyle early and often to let her know how much they despise her.  It also pretty good practice for when these two set their sights on Lisa V..  I do think Brandi didn't think this through Kim has been known to drop out of sight at moments notice. 

[Lola16]

 

Lola16, on 22 Jan 2015 - 5:02 PM, said:

    The spa?  This isn't filmed in real time. Each scene has to be set and staged.  Kyle (since she is the host for the trip, I am mentioning her), could have asked the spa manager to bring food and explained that she thought it was wine with meal and not a straight up wine tasting.   I don't fault her for going with the flow.  It's extra effort and perhaps she was tired of requesting accommodations.

Shouldn't Kim be the one asking if it bothers her?  WTH is Kyle suppose to intervene?  The place is big but I think they all probably get direction at the same time.  Kyle offered to leave with Kim and stated the wine tasting was cut short.  Again the term host is used pretty loosely in these situations.

Anyone or no-one could.  I explained why I mentioned Kyle by name.  No bigger meaning.

[LotusFlower]

Oh, I get it.  I honestly thought I must have missed something. There has been so much talk about the wine tasting, and in the context of a real ho'wife show, it went really well. No real drama there to speak of. Kim said the only thing that made it awkward for her was that folks kept checking in on her. I am assuming having the entire event moved would have bothered her more.  It was actually nice IMO to see everyone behaving themselves in this instance. Kyle showed concern for her sister, the other gals did as well, and Kim actually handled this one thing with grace and humor.  All around it was a pretty good showing.

This is an honest question since I'm not an alcoholic, but can something like this be a trigger? In other words, is it possible that even though Kim looked fine at the wine tasting, and said she was ok with it, and no drama ensued, is it possible that it triggered something that resulted in an eventual relapse? (I also want to say that saying she's ok and being ok are not always the same thing. In this instance I felt bad for Kim, because her "yes, I'm fine" was probably more about not wanting to call attention to herself and her addiction vs. the truth).

[zoeysmom]

TONIGHT AT 9:39 First Look-it should be the rest of the fight.

[CaughtOnTape]

This is an honest question since I'm not an alcoholic, but can something like this be a trigger? In other words, is it possible that even though Kim looked fine at the wine tasting, and said she was ok with it, and no drama ensued, is it possible that it triggered something that resulted in an eventual relapse? (I also want to say that saying she's ok and being ok are not always the same thing. In this instance I felt bad for Kim, because her "yes, I'm fine" was probably more about not wanting to call attention to herself and her addiction vs. the truth).

 

Of course it is.

 

But again, that's Kim's responsibility to tell Kyle she had an issue with it.  

[haydensterling]

Quick question: do we have a definite "yes" that the poker game took place one day after the wine tasting debacle--which has somehow become the most fascinating thing about this entire episode?

 

My timeline is Spa Day, Eileen leaves early.  Bus ride home, Brandi makes creepy fantasy comment.

Kyle and Kim have lunch to discuss what happened at Spa Day.  Kim assures Kyle there is no trouble, says she laughed it off.

Lisa leaves for Cabo?  Sometime around here?

Poker Night, Kim is apparently shitfaced by the time she arrives at Lisa R.'s place and Lisa R. is sure of said fact after a few minutes in the car with Aggresso-Kim.

Things go to hell in a handbasket rapidly.

 

Since the board implication seems to be that Kyle's behavior on Spa Day is somehow a triggering incident for Kim to relapse--correct me if I'm reading this wrong, I may very well be--then it might be interesting to know if Poker Night was in fact the very next night.  Also, wouldn't that have meant that Kim and Kyle went to lunch earlier that same day?

 

Also, editing.

[LotusFlower]

Of course it is.

 

But again, that's Kim's responsibility to tell Kyle she had an issue with it.

Right. Kim is responsible for her sobriety, and she needs to know what her triggers are. But I think Kyle could learn that Kim isn't necessarily being truthful when she says she's ok with this unexpected event centered around alcohol. Notice the first thing Kyle said when she went to check on Kim was "I feel bad." She needed reassurance that her "lunch" was ok, and Kim, on the defensive, told her it was. She might have been telling the truth, but she probably wasn't. It was just a quick in-the-moment answer to feeling awkward, and not wanting everyone to look at her, let alone change venues. But Kyle, hearing Kim was "ok," gets to not "feel bad."

[zoeysmom]

How difficult would it have been to remove the wine?  You get iced tea!  And YOU get iced tea! 

 

Bottom line is, Kim said she wasn't affected.  (Although we know she's poppin' pills the very next day. Hmm.)  Kyle was obviously concerned because she asked Kim a couple times if she was okay.  If she had a concern about her alcoholic sister and it wasn't possible to move to a part of the resort that, wasn't a bar, then there are other smaller requests she might have made.  Maybe she did and production said no.

I think Kyle covered this in her blog-she offered to leave with Kim.  Kim said she was okay, it seems the rest of the women then all had to take turns asking Kim if she was okay and they folded up shop and left.  So from the sound of it, they as a collective decided it was uncool to engage in a wine tasting that Kim could not participate in and left production looking like drooling idiots who drove for two hours each way to get about 8 minutes of usable film, five of which was asking Kim if she was okay and filming Kim on the phone.  So apparently the cast, production or the hotel was either unable or unwilling to move the lunch or cancel the wine tasting portion of the event.

 

One can only hope they got some food to go.

[beesknees]

Kyle definitely has a history of being a big martyr and playing up how hard this is for her. But Kyle really wasn't doing it there at all. Her story all along--the same story all the other women seem to agree on--is that she arranged a thing at the hotel and the hotel offered something in the wine tasting room that they all thought was a lunch with different wines paired with courses. When they got there they saw it was literally a tasting with people sitting down and sniffing and tasting wine. 

 

And Kyle did feel badly about this--it left Kim completely out of it. She apologized, she asked Kim if she was okay, she told Kim and other people that she felt bad. Really, a person would probably feel bad about that even they didn't care about the person's sobriety, because you don't want to invite somebody to something that they can't participate in at all--the wine pairing wouldn't have left Kim out. 

 

So she said she felt badly about that and wouldn't have intentionally arranged a thing that was completely about alcohol that Kim couldn't drink. She praised Kim for handling it well, assured her that she knew she was strong enough to do what she needed to do (iow, didn't take the role of the only personal capable of keeping Kim sober, but as a sister apologized for arranging something Kim wouldn't enjoy when she wanted to do the opposite), and that was that. There was no problem with Kim or Kyle at the wine tasting. 

 

Later, at Eileen's, there were huge problems, and it had nothing to do with the venue. Kim got high at home on her own without any alcohol as far as we know. Kyle taking responsibility for where she brought Kim was irrelevent.

 

This is a beautifully summed up post.  Thank you!  (Oh, and I'm tipping my wine glass to you).

[WireWrap]

I figured that last year.  I don't expect that she should show every step of her recovering but it was obvious that Kyle had never heard one word or action that indicated Kim was sorry for the damage her addiction did to others.  I had hope when she was praying that it was a twelve step since that requires a belief in a higher power but now I don't think so.  Interesting since I know that there are programs that do not follow the 12 steps and I assume they have a success rate.  Kim should look into one.

There was a scene with Kim and her "lifestyle/spiritual healer person where he told Kim to keep working on her 12 steps. Kim was to do the steps but IMO, she did not. Her choice as she does not like to admit her own responsibilities, ever!  

 

Kyle is the one who said on WWHL that if she knew it was for wine tasting she would never have put her sister in this situation.  To me that "never have put her sister in this situation" tells me she believed it was wrong.

 

I believe Kyle knew it was a wine tasting event and felt exactly like you. They are adults and should make their own decisions. I have a different opinion and if it was my sister the last place I'd want a recovering alcoholic would be at a wine tasting in front of a million viewers...to me that was at the very least morally wrong.  I understand there are many points of view on this subject...probably just as many as there are stars in the sky. 

Kim excused herself, stepped outside and handled it like an adult. There was no issue at the wine tasting., NONE

 

I think the cut, cut motion was interesting and it made me think. I wonder, though, is this what Brandi was doing? And is that what they really do? Would they stop filming if someone asked them too in the middle of filming? If so, wouldn't folks be using slashing symbols all over the place on these shows?  Maybe she was motioning to someone else. Maybe saying to Eileen or her husband that she thought Kim was done, or something? I don't know. Didn't one of the gals say once that the best way to get them to stop filming was just to say, "stop filming", because they aren't going to record and show you saying that? 

 

I have almost come along to the thought that Brandi might have legitimately been trying to protect Kim, or at the very least trying to stop Kyle from having a moment. But what happened to the Brandi in the limo with Kyle, listening with a sympathetic ear to Kyle talk about how hard it had always been, to make her become the Brandi at the poker table? Just booze? It seemed like she wanted to make Kyle go there, as she was being as annoying and vicious as Kim was. It almost seemed like she was trying to provoke Kyle in some manner? Is it possible that Brandi knows you cannot stop filming just by giving them a sign, but she wanted to do it anyway just to show that she was trying to shut it down? I love to hear thoughts, because my Brandi hate can sometimes get in my eyes. 

There were reports of Yolanda stopping filming last season and Brandi was present when it occurred, I think all or most of the HWs were. Brandi knows that she needs to verbally say "stop filming" for them to actually stop. The throat slash was just her trying to make herself look good while never really wanting to stop filming or really trying to protect Kim,

 

Can someone clarify what Kyle did to Brandi to "justify" this whipsaw hatred? One episode they're hiking together, and the next thing I know Brandi is attacking her. (And don't tell me it's concern for Kim.). In Brandi's tortured mind, does she think tearing down Kyle will endear her to Lisa V?!

Kyle made up with Lisa V. That is the crux of Brandi's desire to target Kyle now.  

 

I think it's more of a case that not all productions of every show are the same.  Though I would hazard to guess that the RH are pretty crappy across the cities based on what has been leaked about the NJ and MIA crews and all the underhanded BS.

I don't think Kyle masterminded anything.  I do think Lisa R texted Kyle about Kim's behavior in the limo.

Texting Kyle that Kim is "not feeling well" would not indicate to anyone, even Kyle that Kim was as high as a kite.

[FozzyBear]

I think the thing with the Richards Sisters is that there is stuff they should do (on both ends) and then there is the fact that they both grew up in the same dysfunctional house and share some of the same piss poor conflict management skills. Both have a tendency to sort of explain away their less desirable behaviors (Kim's an addict, Kyle's the sister of an addict, that how they were raised, Big Kathy made them promise, etc...) as if finding an explanation is the same as actually solving a problem. They both also have a strong tendency to want to have their cake an eat it too. Kim wants everyone to leave her alone, except when she wants to be babied. Kyle wants to have boudaries with Kim, except for whenever Kim disagrees with her about how to make potatoes. They both have a tendency to talk as if they have no options(or to not acknowledge options they don't like) and they both expect everyone else to be on the same page about their relationship (whatever that page may be) as they are. So yeah Kim needs to focus on her sobriety, but she won't. Kyle isn't responsible for Kim, except that she keeps volunteering for the job. They just aren't very introspective people so I think changing patterns is really hard for them.

[Higgins]

 I don't think for a second that wine tasting has anything to do with her relapse. The only thing that bothered me about that was how they all made a big deal about it. I'm sure that would get old. Kim uses drugs because she wants to. For whatever reason, she wants a brain change. Whatever combination she uses really makes her act strange. I think that if Kim was a stoner, we wouldn't be having this conversation.

Edited January 22, 2015 by Higgins

[Almost 3000]

Was Kim implying something about the size of Mauricio's member? If so that should/would cause total terror on Kyle's face. Was her out of control sister going there?

Yes! and I can't believe we haven't nit picked that one to death. Kim what a nasty bitch she is.

[RedheadZombie]

I did notice when all the ladies we getting into the limo-van, Lisa said something to Eileen like "Oh, I see you are wearing my glasses." Referring to Eileen's sunglasses. It did sound a tad bit "chilly" to me.

 

Lisa V. reminds me of "I don't like you 'til I like you" Caroline Manzo.  Lisa is reserved with newbies until they've efficiently sucked up or bowed down.  Eileen is reported to be the highest paid housewife on this show, and rumored to have been cast as a challenge to Lisa's power.  Lisa is very media savvy, and there's no way she doesn't know this talk is out there.

[VanillaBeanne]

I do think that the wine tasting could have contributed to Kim's relapse. Sometimes addicts are just looking for any excuse. I believe Kyle didn't know there would be a wine tasting. Even Brandi and Kim aren't saying otherwise.

As to jealousy, I think Brandi is jealous of a lot of people, not just Kyle. Her nastiness to Joyce last year was all jealousy-driven.

I don't think young Kyle was jealous of Kim because of Kim's success. Kim was not that huge and Kyle had lots of acting roles. I think she may have been jealous of Kim because Big Kathy seemed to focus and coddle Kim, but leave Kyle alone to drive herself to acting jobs.

I'd eat my hat if adult Kim is not jealous of Kyle and her life (young kids still at home and great hubby).

Edited January 23, 2015 by VanillaBeanne

[SuzWhat]

 

I think there is also a part of Brandi that wants to be able to tell the other women that their husbands are cheating on them because they came on to her. It doesn't matter in her eyes that she came on to them first, just that they responded back and wanted to take her up on her offer. She would be most pleased if 1 or more of the marriages ended because of cheating so she is not the only one that was cheated on.

100% agree. You said it better, exactly what I was thinking.

[RealityTVSmack]

FYI...what space does The Bacara Resort & Spa mention on their web page where lunch could be served in addition to restaurants:

 

Our Indoor Event Venues

 

Bacara Ballroom

This spacious, luxury venue is an expansive 11,300 square feet and features 23-foot-high ceilings with beautiful sculptured details, gilt-framed mirrors and six balconies. The Bacara Ballroom also offers a direct-access loading dock. It’s our largest venue at Bacara Resort & Spa, which can accommodate up to 1,100 guests for larger special events in Santa Barbara.

Ballroom A, B and C

The Bacara Ballroom can be divided into three separate areas, each 43 feet by 87 feet. Each venue can accommodate up to 350 guests for a dinner reception set-up. Offering the same gracious details, it’s the perfect venue if you’re looking for a smaller venue than the Bacara Ballroom.

 

Additional Bacara Ballroom Space

The Bacara Ballroom also features 8,700 square feet of additional event space, including a light-filled, vaulted foyer with a fireplace, an adjacent ocean view terrace and a sprawling lawn area.

Rotunda, Terrace and Balcony

The 1,734-square-foot, circular Rotunda atop Bacara’s main lobby features a sun-filled space, complete with views of the ocean, gardens and adjoining terraces. Wood-framed windows, a vaulted 20-foot ceiling and a dramatic wrought-iron chandelier add to the Rotunda’s warm ambience. The Terrace offers an alfresco venue, while the Balcony provides beautiful ocean views. This luxury venue can accommodate up to 180 guests for your special event in Santa Barbara.

 

Santa Ynez Room and Terrace

At 2,072 square feet, the Santa Ynez Room is ideal for midsize dining events, with a two-story vaulted ceiling and exterior terrace with ocean views. Santa Ynez Room and Terrace can accommodate up to 220 guests for a reception dinner set-up.

 

Six Salons

In close proximity to the Rotunda and Santa Ynez Room are six smaller salons, excellent for breakout sessions or social gatherings. Each salon has its own private patio, and they all share a wide foyer for registration or other functions. Salon 1, 2 and 5 can accommodate up to 50 guests, while Salon 3, 4 and 6 can accommodate up to 100 guests for your special event.

 

Wine Cellar

Bacara’s wine cellar features an impressive display of 12,000 wines from around the world, along with a private dining room that seats up to 40 persons. It’s the perfect space for one-of-a-kind culinary events.

[WireWrap]

 I don't think for a second that wine tasting has anything to do with her relapse. The only thing that bothered me about that was how they all made a big deal about it. I'm sure that would get old. Kim uses drugs because she wants to. For whatever reason, she wants a brain change. Whatever combination she uses really makes her act strange. I think that if Kim was a stoner, we wouldn't be having this conversation.

I don't believe that Kim's main addiction was/is/has ever been alcohol, IMO she is a pill popper/snorting. Her behavior fits that type of addiction far better than booze. Also, there is no way you can hide wine in a travel coffee cup and no one figures out it is not coffee in there. Wine smells, it makes your breath smell far different than coffee. Now had Kim said she drank vodka in a travel mug, at least common sense would have said that was a possibility as plain vodka does not smell. That is why Kim has had no real problem being around anyone drinking from the get go.

 

Lisa V. reminds me of "I don't like you 'til I like you" Caroline Manzo.  Lisa is reserved with newbies until they've efficiently sucked up or bowed down.  Eileen is reported to be the highest paid housewife on this show, and rumored to have been cast as a challenge to Lisa's power.  Lisa is very media savvy, and there's no way she doesn't know this talk is out there.

Lisa V was standoffish with Brandi in the beginning as well and was with Carlton/Joyce.  She knew Lisa R before joining the show so there was already a connection. I don't think Lisa is a closed off to newbies like Caroline Manzo is but she is hesitant. I do not think Lisa is worried about Eileen's paycheck or loosing fans/status to her either. Both women are polite to each other without fawning over the other. Lets hope they develop a friendship, I think they would be funny together. 

[mwell345]

 

I'd eat my hat if adult Kim is not jealous of Kyle and her life (young kids still at home and great hubby).

 

I think that's essentially it. But I think the relationship is very complicated.  Remember the limo conversation from a few seasons back when Kyle outed Kim as an alcholic? 

 

Kim made the comment that Kyle "stole her house".

 

Kyle said that Mauricio had been helping Kim financially.

 

Kyle also said something about their mother dying and leaving her (Kyle) with this (Kim).

 

Kim probably did support the family (or contributed much to it) when she was acting. Kyle, while also acting sometimes, probably had a more normal childhood. They Kyle marries Mauricio, a successful businessman and for all intents and purposes has a great life while Kim has fallen apart.

 

I think Kim resents Kyle on many levels. When she gets drunk or high, she tends to takes pot shots at Kyle.  She did the same thing in Hawaii at Mauricio's dinner party (but not as bad, just little digs).  But with Brandi enabling and instigating at the Poker party, it got ugly fast.

 

And Brandi knew exactly what she was doing.

[RedheadZombie]

I definitely see envy on Brandi's side when it comes to Eileen though. I don't know what it is about actresses (and pageant queens) but they seem to rub Brandi the wrong way for whatever reason. 

 

Replying in Brandi's thread.

[haydensterling]

Yes! and I can't believe we haven't nit picked that one to death. Kim what a nasty bitch she is.

 

Let's start picking, I'm over TasteGate. /grin

 

I thought that initially Kim was referring to Mauricio, but then I was wondering if it was something even worse.  Kyle's face in that moment was such a blend of confusion, horror, sadness, fear--it could be almost anything.  Like I said before, I really think these sisters have a way of holding secrets over the others' heads in order to guilt them or shame them into staying in line.  A nice trick Mommy taught them.

I just hope Kim wasn't referring to anything abusive that may have happened to Kyle in the past.  My mind instantly went there for some reason, and I don't know why, but if it had to do with cocks, I'd rather it be a nasty joke about Mauricio's dick size than something else.  Addicts can bust out with some very hurtful stuff.  I don't know.  This whole episode was insanely confusing and just plain weird. 

[Almost 3000]

First post here, so please excuse if this has been covered already.

         I see Kim, Kyle and older sister Kathy as coming from a very messed up family.  Big Kathy the mother was a strange person who schooled her daughters in marrying rich and pushing show biz.  

         Kim by many accounts supported her whole family working as a child.   I think that is where the love/hate between the two sisters stems from. Kim resented it, Kyle was jealous of Kim's stardom and the list goes on and on.

          I think Kim was damaged by her childhood, so my little bit of sympathy goes with her.  I think Kyle's concern is an act for the show. 

The Kim supporting the family part is not totally true. Big Kathy married and divorced fairly well a couple of times so she didn't need Kim's money. Now she may have used it but she didn't need it. The schooling of her daughters to marry well part and be models/actresses has been reported by several sources.

[Cherrio]

I do think that the wine tasting could have contributed to Kim's relapse. Sometimes addicts are just looking for any excuse. I believe Kyle didn't know there would be a wine tasting. Even Brandi and Kim aren't saying otherwise.

As to jealousy, I think Brandi is jealous of a lot of people, not just Kyle. Her nastiness to Joyce last year was all jealousy-driven.

I don't think young Kyle was jealous of Kim because of Kim's success. Kim was not that huge and Kyle had lots of acting roles. I think she may have been jealous of Kim because Big Kathy seemed to focus and coddle Kim, but leave Kyle alone to drive herself to acting jobs.

I'd eat my hat if adult Kim is not jealous of Kyle and her life (young kids still at home and great hubby).

Actually, Big Kathy's focus was little Kathy, who was considered the prettiest and most likely to marry rich, which of course she did.      Kim was quite well known as a Disney star and had many fans.

     We really have no idea how great or wonderful Mauricio or any S.O. is.    I think in real life the sisters lead very separate lives, but Kim seems close to older sister Kathy.  

 I just hope Kim will be ok after Monty passes away, has some real friends who will protect her from Bravo and other bad choices. 

[VanillaBeanne]

Look at Kyles's imdb. she was most active from 1977 to 1986. She did twenty episodes of Little House and 40 of a TBS sitcom, plus movie and tv roles. Not that she was required to support herself as a child, but Kyle definitely contributed her share.

Also, Kyle was like 8 when Kathy landed her Hilton, so by that time Big Kathy moved on to Kim's career.

Edited January 23, 2015 by VanillaBeanne

[RealityTVSmack]

Yes! and I can't believe we haven't nit picked that one to death. Kim what a nasty bitch she is.

I guess the sisters share a lot of personal stuff...stuff that Kim was hinting at about her sister's personal life and needs.  Brandi won the poker trophy and Kim was awarding Kyle the container as a trophy.  Talk about editing...that should have been removed by Bravo. It adds nothing but to explain the horror on Kyle's face.  Makes you seriously wonder.

 

Kim's head is always in the dumps...one time, at a store she held up a electric toothbrush and alluded to additional uses.  Even devoid of drugs and booze the woman is pretty sketchy.

Edited January 23, 2015 by RealityTVSmack

[ryebread]

Now had Kim said she drank vodka in a travel mug, at least common sense would have said that was a possibility as plain vodka does not smell. That is why Kim has had no real problem being around anyone drinking from the get go.

 

Years ago I reunited with an old friend who had gone through rehab for a cocaine addiction.  I invited her on our boat.  "Will there be alcohol there?"  "Yes."  She declined.  Even though her addiction had nothing to do with booze, it was a trigger.  Which I don't pretend to understand but there it is. Even if pills are Kim's only problem, doesn't mean being around wine isn't a trigger for her vice.

 

For some ex- cocaine addicts, hearing someone chopping vegetables on a cutting board is a trigger for them.

[LotusFlower]

So she said she felt badly about that and wouldn't have intentionally arranged a thing that was completely about alcohol that Kim couldn't drink. She praised Kim for handling it well, assured her that she knew she was strong enough to do what she needed to do

This is part of what bothers me - Kyle's contention that that Kim is "strong enough" to do what she needed to do. She's not. Most addicts are not, that's why most relapse. It isn't Kyle's responsibility to bolster Kim's strength, but I feel like she's complicit in Kim's lie that she's doing well with her sobriety. I mean, come on! Even viewers can see that's she's not. And hasn't been since, well, this entire time.

In a sneak peek for next week, Kyle is driving home with Lisa R., who very directly asks about Kim's sobriety. Kyle covers for her. I think Kyle still feels a lot of guilt over exposing Kim's alcoholism, and going along with Kim's sobriety storyline is part of a pact she made with Kim, maybe even a subconscious one.

[Avaleigh]

Love of air time?  Hater of happy people?

A little from column A, a little from column B.

 

Brandi seems to have jealousy issues in general. I wouldn't be surprised if she's a touch jealous of Giggy.

 

In a sneak peek for next week, Kyle is driving home with Lisa R., who very directly asks about Kim's sobriety. Kyle covers for her. I think Kyle still feels a lot of guilt over exposing Kim's alcoholism, and going along with Kim's sobriety storyline is part of a pact she made with Kim, maybe even a subconscious one.

 

 

Kyle covered for Kim with the nonsense in Paris as well. Kyle was excited about the opening of her store and she ended up having to take time away from that so she could film a scene with Kim where Kim gets to give the audience that absurd water pill excuse. 

 

The people in Kim's life, not just Kyle, need to stop making excuses for Kim because it isn't doing her any good and we can see that she isn't any better than she was in season 1-2. 

[RealityTVSmack]

Let's start picking, I'm over TasteGate. /grin

 

I thought that initially Kim was referring to Mauricio, but then I was wondering if it was something even worse.  Kyle's face in that moment was such a blend of confusion, horror, sadness, fear--it could be almost anything.  Like I said before, I really think these sisters have a way of holding secrets over the others' heads in order to guilt them or shame them into staying in line.  A nice trick Mommy taught them.

I just hope Kim wasn't referring to anything abusive that may have happened to Kyle in the past.  My mind instantly went there for some reason, and I don't know why, but if it had to do with cocks, I'd rather it be a nasty joke about Mauricio's dick size than something else.  Addicts can bust out with some very hurtful stuff.  I don't know.  This whole episode was insanely confusing and just plain weird. 

Kim's mind is in the gutter and whatever she's hinting at, I agree, there was terror on Kyle's face...she left the table to end the conversation.  These sisters should not be on the same show...it's insanity. 

 

The way Kim talked to LisaR was truly scary and she hardly knew her. It's as if she getting off on playing mind games with Kyle. Looked like a lot of pent up hostility spilling out or just plain spite and malice.  Just like a cat playing with a mouse :(

[sistermagpie]

Right. Kim is responsible for her sobriety, and she needs to know what her triggers are. But I think Kyle could learn that Kim isn't necessarily being truthful when she says she's ok with this unexpected event centered around alcohol. Notice the first thing Kyle said when she went to check on Kim was "I feel bad." She needed reassurance that her "lunch" was ok, and Kim, on the defensive, told her it was. She might have been telling the truth, but she probably wasn't. It was just a quick in-the-moment answer to feeling awkward, and not wanting everyone to look at her, let alone change venues. But Kyle, hearing Kim was "ok," gets to not "feel bad."

 

 

But there's nothing else that's really an issue there other than Kyle's feelings. She can't just discount Kim when she says she's fine without totally babying her and controlling her life and making decisions for her. In a normal situation, if someone invites someone to something that winds up being unenjoyable for them, they're going to feel bad. There's nothing else for them to do but express remorse and say they feel bad. Of course it is possible for the hostess to be insensitive about it and make it about their feelings instead of the person wronged, but sometimes the hostess is far more mortified than the guest is hurt.

 

I just hope Kim will be ok after Monty passes away, has some real friends who will protect her from Bravo and other bad choices.

 

 

I think Kim's pretty much said she has no friends. The only friends she ever really picks up on the show are other people with similar problems like Ken and Brandi. And probably Monty. But at the same time, she's a terrible friend to others.

 

This is part of what bothers me - Kyle's contention that that Kim is "strong enough" to do what she needed to do. She's not. Most addicts are not, that's why most relapse. It isn't Kyle's responsibility to bolster Kim's strength, but I feel like she's complicit in Kim's lie that she's doing well with her sobriety. I mean, come on! Even viewers can see that's she's not. And hasn't been since, well, this entire time.

 

 

I think there's two slightly different things going on with that. I do think that Kyle is way too Sally Sunshine about Kim's sobriety and still hasn't really stopped lying for her and allowing Kim to tell everyone how she's doing when she's clearly not doing that well. That's something Kyle does that's really not healthy--and Kim kind of demands it as well. But in that particular scene, at least, it seemed like the right thing to say. In talking to Kim's face telling her that you "know" that she's strong enough to handle a day with alcohol seems a much better idea than implying she's not and giving her an excuse to relapse. Even not reassuring her that you just know she can do it seems like an opening. So I took that particular line more as something you'd say to support the person.

 

But with the Lisa R scene it seems like she's covering for her, which I do think she does. It's like she's admitted that Kim has a problem but still hasn't admitted the whole problem. She still doesn't seem to be seeing (or admitting to seeing) the sister she actually has, who has a history of pretending to be a superstar rehab person when she's still using. One look at Kim's blog makes that clear. And Kyle seems always ready to swear to Kim's sobriety when even as a TV viewer I don't buy it. Sometimes it seems like she's doing it to keep Kim from coming at her again about the limo. (It's funny, actually, that Kim and Brandi both seem to have "outed" Kyle as an alcoholic as well, only nobody takes that as a terrible thing to do because nobody believes it.)

 

It's kind of like Kim's "one pill" confessions. She admits to a little thing to keep from admitting to the truth. In Kyle's case it's like she's thrilled to be able to come out and say Kim has a problem but after that everything is fixed and perfect now!

 

FYI...what space does The Bacara Resort & Spa mention on their web page where lunch could be served in addition to restaurants:

 

 

If they have restaurants they can serve lunch anywhere if they arrange it with the TV show. This wasn't just a bunch of women wandering into the room and looking at a menu. It was something set up in production for them that happened to use that room.

Edited January 23, 2015 by sistermagpie

[Umbelina]

Quote

Yes and then you stated that Kyle had a moral obligation to find out what was going to happen and shield Kim from it.  I'm asking you why she has this obligation?

 

My thing is that if Kyle is going to react the way she does to Kim and her behavior, put herself in a position where she needs to be sympathized with and as the one that has this big burden in her life than yes I do think that Kyle does have some responsibility towards her sister and what situations they go into together. Kyle also acts out in these sort of situations, whether it be a certain amount of anxiety or worry or awkwardness that in effect puts a spotlight on Kim and her struggle with sobriety so I think that Kyle does have an obligation to do her best when it comes to smoothing these sort of details out and taking control over things as they come up.

 

Especially if she is the "organizer" of the event. I mean if Kyle is going to have the reactions she has to Kim then wouldn't it make sense, for her own peace of mind to contribute whatever she can to keeping things from veering off course? The fact that Kyle does in fact run with the whole "woe is me" routine when Kim falls off the wagon aggravates me. I guess it's the level of pain and suffering that we see Kyle express about Kim but then why wouldn't you take the extra precautions for your sisters sake.

 

Hey, I don't think it's Kyle's job. No way no how but the only reason I hold Kyle to certain things is because she has accepted the role whether begrudgingly or not. So if you're gonna milk the martyr angle then by golly step your game up. This wasn't rocket science. Just a small amount of effort and looking into would have revealed the pit falls and even if it wasn't noticed until the last minute there were definitely adjustments that should have been made easily and yes by Kyle.

 

Why not Kyle? She's the one who, besides Kim, is significantly invested in Kim's continued sobriety. Hello it's not just about bashing Kyle because she's not doing a good job being her sisters keeper it's about Kyle doing a poor job having her sisters back when she knows damn well she'll be the first one crying about, being embarrassed by or speaking on how worried she is about Kim. So then, for the things that are within your power to adjust, control, somewhat tweak or downright help correct then why wouldn't you?  And that's my problem with Kyle.

 

No I don't think Kyle is supposed to fix her sisters life for her but it seems like all she does is wait for the mess then "cleans up the mess" and then cry about being the one that has to clean up the mess instead of ummmmm I don't know help keep the mess from happening at all. I don't see a lot of support from Kyle. I see tolerance. Tolerance isn't the same as support. Actually tolerance can be somewhat offensive because there is a superior/inferior implication when it comes to tolerance and for all the tears and the love I do see from the sisters I see more of a tolerance coming from Kyle more than I see a true desire to see Kim through.

I'm adding some spaces to your post to make it easier to read, because I agree with all of it.

 

I'll go further and say that I believe Kyle ADORES her martyr role, and it's a "SEE, I am the best sister after all!  I win!" endless game those 3 poor girls have played since dear old dead mom started it.  They are all examples of child acting and stage mothering at it's worst.  Not to mention Big Kathy's insistence that they all marry rich men while they were VERY young and start popping out kids. 

 

For me, it's not about "Who was the worst?"  Kim, Kyle, and Brandi were all assholes last  night. 

 

I'm tired of Brandi's rudeness and drunkeness and same old sex as shock conversations.  Dusty, musty, and lame.

I'm tired of Kim's addiction issues, turtles! and other passive-aggressive bullshit.

I'm tired of Kyle playing victim, and trying to win the gold star and redeem herself from Limo-gate. 

 

Do I think Kyle is lying through her teeth about being unaware this was all going to be centered around wine (again?)  70% yes I do.  I don't trust her, don't like her, don't buy her act about being a concerned sister.  That doesn't mean I don't believe she's gone through pain with an addict in the family.  That fact doesn't obscure her general nasty "mean girl with a smile" personality.  I think she used Brandi last year to go after Lisa, to both separate them, and "get even" as well as to take over Queen Bee position. 

 

Do I think drunken, obnoxious Brandi really was trying to save Kim from Limo-gate part deux?  Yes, I do.  I think she was trying to stop the filming because she knew exactly what Kyle would do with this opportunity.  (We shall see if Kyle succeeds next week.)  I don't blame Brandi one singe bit for shoving the grabby Kyle off of her, the second time Kyle grabbed her they were on stairs, so being off balance added to the look of it.  I would have made sure my friend got out of the range of cameras too. 

 

As for Kim, you can see her resentment for Kyle practically dripping out of her pores.  Again, I think it's so many issues that have nothing to do with this show, but from a history that began while one of them was barely out of diapers.  She's responsible for her substance abuse, but so is Big Kathy, and for that matter, Disney.  We have better laws for child actors now, but I still wonder if they are enough. 

 

Do I think Kyle wanted to HELP Kim by getting her to "talk" in front of cameras?  Or stay?  HELL NO.

Do I think Kim went back in to fight some more with Kyle, possibly because while under the influence she gets the excuse to say what she really thinks?  Yes, and Brandi knew it, and tried to stop it.  So props to Brandi for that.

 

 

The real questions are, does Maurice (as Kim calls him) really have a tiny dick, or was that Kyle's first husband?

Also, did Maurice steal Kim's damn house?

[WireWrap]

Years ago I reunited with an old friend who had gone through rehab for a cocaine addiction.  I invited her on our boat.  "Will there be alcohol there?"  "Yes."  She declined.  Even though her addiction had nothing to do with booze, it was a trigger.  Which I don't pretend to understand but there it is. Even if pills are Kim's only problem, doesn't mean being around wine isn't a trigger for her vice.

 

For some ex- cocaine addicts, hearing someone chopping vegetables on a cutting board is a trigger for them.

I am not saying that Kim did not abuse alcohol, most likely she abused anything she could get her hands on but I believe her main addiction is pills. She seems to have gotten the booze part under some control, she has been to several parties where there was alcohol served and no issues, she did not look uncomfortable once. I don't know what her triggers are but I suspect she has major psych triggers, emotional needs not getting met, too many responsibilities, not being needed enough and the biggest....being alone with her demons.

[GreatKazu]

Kim's triggers could be anything from the real to the imagined. I was remembering when the report came out about her child being naked in the street, having a mental breakdown of sorts, and being put in a mental health facility on hold. I wonder if Kim has mental issues which may have started her on her spiral downward? I have also wondered if she and Kyle have been victims of sexual abuse? Being young girls in the industry, there are plenty of opportunities for adults to take advantage of child actors.

 

 

 

after Kyle took care to see that Kim was alright, Lisa Rinna made a grand show and then...did anyone notice Lisa Vanderpump come scurrying up to offer her (fake) concern?

I was waiting for Brandi to tell them to "STFU" much like she did when Adrienne showed concern when Kim cried at the Ojai dinner.

 

 

 

Addicts can only hold you hostage if you let them.  They can also hold you hostage if you've lived with their manipulative behavior all your life and are completely stuck in a shit pattern yourself.  Sometimes, they can hold you hostage in conjunction with the bizarre mother who was by all accounts a very peculiar woman w/r/t her daughters.  Or, if you've never really addressed the problem because it's incredibly painful for you, no matter how your actions appear to others.

I agree. It is similar to domestic violence and why victims just can't walk away. There is way more to removing yourself from the addict's emotional clutches.  

 

Kyle needs to set boundaries and cut ties, but she needs help from a professional. I know it isn't easy (been there), but when it is done... wow! The feeling of not having that boulder on one's shoulder is so liberating. I know Kyle is not at that level yet. It is different for everyone. There is no set time for people to just throw in the towel and be done. Much like how each addict has reached their "bottom", each co-dependent person has their "enough".

 

I could not help but think how similar poker night was to game night at PamDana's house. Back then, it was the Richard Sisters against Brandi. This time, it was Brandi and Kim against Kyle. At game night, Kyle was trying her best to protect Kim, doing her best to get her glammed up with make-up, making sure Kim was sober enough to hang out, and then be all buddy-buddy with her sister as they ganged up on Brandi and called her names. This time, Brandi is all buddy-buddy with Kim, as they both go at it with Kyle, while Brandi calls Kyle "stupid".  The only difference? Eileen had food, whereas PamDana had crappy appetizers.

Edited January 23, 2015 by GreatKazu

[Persnickety1]

I don't believe that Kim's main addiction was/is/has ever been alcohol, IMO she is a pill popper/snorting. Her behavior fits that type of addiction far better than booze. Also, there is no way you can hide wine in a travel coffee cup and no one figures out it is not coffee in there. Wine smells, it makes your breath smell far different than coffee. Now had Kim said she drank vodka in a travel mug, at least common sense would have said that was a possibility as plain vodka does not smell. That is why Kim has had no real problem being around anyone drinking from the get go.

 

Lisa V was standoffish with Brandi in the beginning as well and was with Carlton/Joyce.  She knew Lisa R before joining the show so there was already a connection. I don't think Lisa is a closed off to newbies like Caroline Manzo is but she is hesitant. I do not think Lisa is worried about Eileen's paycheck or loosing fans/status to her either. Both women are polite to each other without fawning over the other. Lets hope they develop a friendship, I think they would be funny together. 

 

I've always felt that way, too.

 

That scene of her crawling around on a dirty bathroom floor at the motel looking for "something" (which Ken instructed her to NOT put into her purse) before the SUR event a couple of seasons ago and her equally curious behavior digging through plastic baggies in the limousine looked much more like the behavior of a pill/powder addict than an alcoholic and was all sorts of freakish.

 

I think in the Richards' sisters minds (and probably in a lot of people's minds) being an alcoholic is a more acceptable addiction because alcohol is a legal substance.  

Edited January 23, 2015 by Persnickety1

[bichonblitz]

I'm still in a bit of shock over how mean and nasty Kim was starting in the limo ride and all night long at Eileen's. Reminds me of an ex-boyfriend I once had. His personality would immediately go to the dark side after his very first drink, he was a severe alcoholic. It was so scary. I completely understand why Kyle excused herself to go to the bathroom. You never know what the hell they are going to do or say to hurt or embarrass you.