LaChavalina January 20, 2015 Share January 20, 2015 So true. No one is decluttering the Abbey. Weren't those souvenirs from Russia tucked away for 49 years? *Chortles at the thought of someone finding Lady Mary's used diaphragm on a bookshelf after 49 years* Honestly, as someone else pointed out, why would you just go handing a used diaphragm off to anyone? Gross. I suppose servants really are only allowed to be human on their days off... 5 Link to comment
helenamonster January 20, 2015 Share January 20, 2015 I feel like the window of opportunity has already closed re: Edith and Mr. Drewe telling Mrs. Drewe the whole truth about Marigold. Mrs. Drewe has clearly fully bonded and considers herself Marigold's mother. If she found out Edith was her biological mother, she'd probably be even more afraid about losing Marigold to her. They should have taken their chances and done it from the beginning, honestly. 7 Link to comment
Kohola3 January 20, 2015 Share January 20, 2015 I wonder if Thomas is off rounding up the nefarious footman to bring him to Downton and fill Jimmy's position. Not quite sure why he wants to torture Baxter like that except that he's seriously peeved that she fessed up to Cora and blew his blackmail scheme. Kudos for Molesley being the voice of reason and supporting Baxter. 3 Link to comment
stopeslite January 20, 2015 Share January 20, 2015 I would bet Fellowes thinks he's writing Mrs. Drewe as a terrible lower-class obstacle keeping Edith from true happiness, who we're supposed to root against. Yet what he's really done is show a woman who took an orphan in and loves her and is being punished for it. 10 Link to comment
LilyoftheValley January 20, 2015 Share January 20, 2015 I would bet Fellowes thinks he's writing Mrs. Drewe as a terrible lower-class obstacle keeping Edith from true happiness, who we're supposed to root against. Yet what he's really done is show a woman who took an orphan in and loves her and is being punished for it. ITA. I feel way more sympathy for Mrs Drewe than Edith. I do not get Edith at this point. She is basically a spinster and she has nothing going for herself. Just claim the child and raise her in the house. Lie and say she eloped with the father or something. I get it would be a scandal, but I really do not see what Edith has to lose at this point. 4 Link to comment
RedHawk January 20, 2015 Share January 20, 2015 (edited) I do wish Edith would just tell her family, plop Marigold down in the nursery with her cousins, and get on with her life. Quite a scandal but they'd all live through it somehow. Don't even care if Gregson returns at this point. Maybe old Anthony Strallan would step in and marry poor Edith and adopt her child. Robert and Violet would be glad enough to see him then. He might even claim he fathered Marigold during a bout of makeup sex with Edith or something. Whyever not? Edited January 20, 2015 by RedHawk 4 Link to comment
moonb January 20, 2015 Share January 20, 2015 I'm pretty sympathetic to the Drewes as well - after all, Edith did set up this situation (and I'm generally an Edith fan and fairly sympathetic to her). Everyone's in an impossible situation; we're just not supposed to think of the Drewes anymore after things blow up in Edith's face. They're a means to an end for the story, I suppose. The used birth control device does make me cringe....but servants are used to literal dirty laundry, dead bodies, used menstrual supplies, and all kinds of other discarded employers' items. But yes, that Mary can't just lock in a drawer is unbelievably stupid. 3 Link to comment
LilyoftheValley January 20, 2015 Share January 20, 2015 I mean eventually it just is no longer worth it. Yes, it would be a scandal to the family, but in 1924 the scandal would have blown over eventually. Sybill is dead and Mary is a widow. There is no longer some young virgin in the family out in society for the first time - Rose can just go home in the event of scandal. Edith can raise her daughter herself and her daughter gets to be a member of the family. Again, due to poor writing, the viewer is having trouble getting why this is such a big deal. I get that times were different back then, but I am sure that plenty of families had their scandals regarding bastard children and managed to live through it. The problem is that the writers did not give Edith a life with that much at stake. Okay, so maybe in the world of GOOD writing, Edith could be running a magazine for ladies that focused on upper-class, old school "lady" stuff and the magazine's whole success was tied up in the fact that Edith was a virginal lady from a good family, and Edith feels that the magazine is the greatest thing that ever happened to her and it gave her a level of happiness and respect that she never could get at Downton. And so coming out with her bastard daughter really would be the end of her. Also, the writers have set up life at Downton to be too easy. Everyone would be shocked and upset for one dinner and one breakfast and then Cora would smooth it all over by tea the next day. So the audience cannot invest themselves in stories like this because we know that Downton never faces the theoretical consequences that it could 8 Link to comment
LittleIggy January 20, 2015 Share January 20, 2015 I don't know why Edith didn't say she found this dear little baby in a Swiss or whatever orphanage and decided to be her guardian. 2 Link to comment
LilyoftheValley January 20, 2015 Share January 20, 2015 I don't know why Edith didn't say she found this dear little baby in a Swiss or whatever orphanage and decided to be her guardian. Or that she ran into whats-his-face in Switzerland and they eloped and she had his - her husband's - baby. Yes it would be a scandal, but not that bad, as she was married. Seriously, this was the dumbest solution she could have come up with. 4 Link to comment
helenamonster January 20, 2015 Share January 20, 2015 I watched the after-the-episode clip on YouTube, and even Laura Carmichael is like, "Yeah, these are not the actions of a rational, sane person." I think most of the actors are extremely aware of how their characters come across. Like Michelle Dockery knows Mary's a grade-A bitch, etc. That helps me, as a viewer, to know that the actors aren't so deluded by their characters as to portray them as sympathetic, likable, etc., in situations where they just aren't. So like when Mary sends a zinger Edith's way, I know that MD intended it to sting and doesn't want it to come off as anything other than nasty. And now with Edith, I feel like we are supposed to see her as unreasonable, as LC certainly does and presumably attempts to portray her that way. 1 Link to comment
RedHawk January 20, 2015 Share January 20, 2015 I think Cora is also onto Edith, which means about half the women connected with the house now have that situation sussed out, plus probably Tom. Cora gave some knowing looks as she observed Edith, and she's not really as stupid as she seems. She knows her daughter and she also has a mother's instincts. It's all a big soap opera now, but I still enjoy it. Can't believe how much I like Rose now because I detested her when she first came on the scene. She's a bit of fun, and yet, where are all her male admirers? Wasn't she the belle of her debutante season? Did she turn down several proposals in hope that her jazz man would change his mind? If cold-fish Mary can keep a couple of eligible men on the boil for a year, why not vivacious young Rose? 4 Link to comment
CleoCaesar January 20, 2015 Share January 20, 2015 (edited) Why is portraying Russians so painfully difficult for U.S. and British TV shows and movies? Uh, Count Rostov and Prince Kuragin?? Julian Fellowes clearly read War & Peace (or heard about it, is my guess) and slapped on the last names of two of the most famous characters on his crappy soap. Because it's hard coming up with something yourself. Secondly, WTF were those fake Russian accents? They sounded like leprechauns. I wouldn't put it past Fellowes to have the Dowager reminisce about banging Rasputin or something equally stupid and cliche, so maybe we should count our blessings. Bunting is such a cow. She meets a man whose entire family was either killed or exiled, who has lost his entire fortune and ability to ever return to his native land, whose country went through a civil war in 1917-1922 that killed hundreds of thousands of people, and WITHIN 45 SECONDS of meeting him manages to go on a socialist rant and insult him? Bitch, shut. up. Edith, I like you. I really do. And I sympathize. But you are functioning on your last handful of brain cells. I have zero patience for plots that have me yelling "JUST HAVE A GODDAMN CONVERSATION LIKE THE ADULTS YOU ALLEGEDLY ARE!" at my screen. The Marigold-Tim-Edith-Mrs.Drewe plot is just chock full of stupid. Edited January 20, 2015 by CleoCaesar 13 Link to comment
blackwing January 20, 2015 Share January 20, 2015 Opening scenes with Mary in the hotel. Wow she looked so incredibly flat chested. Does Michelle Dockery always look like this and the clothes just hide it? Was some kind of "squash the breasts flat" binding popular back then? I continue to dislike Edith, and that's one thing that's been consistent for me throughout these five seasons. It's been ten years at this point, has she really not been able to find any man her own age who will look at her? Even though she won't come into money, she is still an Earl's daughter and I would have thought that counts for something. Why does she just sit around all day kvetching about things? This thing with Marigold is beyond ridiculous. Penelope Wilton has been one of the best things about this season. To think I hated her so much during the first season, and now Isobel is one of my favourites. How is it possible that Wilton is not a Dame? I saw in the New Years Honours that the Queen named Kristin Scott Thomas a Dame. Seriously? Kristin Scott Thomas? Apart from The English Patient and a bit in Gosford Park, I can't think of anything else she has been memorable in. Definitely drawing a blank on anything remotely recent. Maybe she has a long stage career. But if she's deserving of Damehood, surely Wilton is! Link to comment
CleoCaesar January 20, 2015 Share January 20, 2015 I saw in the New Years Honours that the Queen named Kristin Scott Thomas a Dame. Seriously? Kristin Scott Thomas? Yes, definitely Kristin Scott Thomas. She's an incredible actress. And has been in over 80 films. I thought the problem was that Mary didn't feel any itch around Tony. That's the way I read it at least. It seemed to be the most passionless courtship, and while she apparently got a good many hours sleep after their, um, endless nights of love, she clearly hadn't fallen in love with him. Yeah Mary's "huh...so that happened..." expression the morning after was hilarious. Tony clearly did not rock her world. Frankly I just hope he gets home in one piece. The Mary Crawley Vagina Death Count currently stands at 2, with a 100% morality rate, after all. 3 Link to comment
Kristen January 20, 2015 Share January 20, 2015 The GIFs in this particle are hilariously on point, I must say. Link to comment
Lillybee January 20, 2015 Share January 20, 2015 The one character that I really care about is Daisy. It looks like she only was in school until she was eleven. I would think that she started being in service at that age. I wonder why thee is never a mention of her family. I love the fact that Daisy is learning that a life outside Downton Abby may be possible for her. 2 Link to comment
RealityTVSmack January 20, 2015 Share January 20, 2015 (edited) Or that she ran into whats-his-face in Switzerland and they eloped and she had his - her husband's - baby. Yes it would be a scandal, but not that bad, as she was married. Seriously, this was the dumbest solution she could have come up with. Edith's problem was that Michael Gregson was married and went to Germany to divorce his wife in a mental institution. He could not divorce her in England at the time. Then he was missing. It appears she didn't have a whole lot of options, though her wanting to adopt a child may have given her some cover. She probably didn't want Mary calling her an idiot again at the breakfast table, lol. After all Mary protected herself with the diaphragm...not Edith. They made a rather nice couple. Edited January 20, 2015 by RealityTVSmack 4 Link to comment
RealityTVSmack January 20, 2015 Share January 20, 2015 Bunting is such a cow. She meets a man whose entire family was either killed or exiled, who has lost his entire fortune and ability to ever return to his native land, whose country went through a civil war in 1917-1922 that killed hundreds of thousands of people, and WITHIN 45 SECONDS of meeting him manages to go on a socialist rant and insult him? Bitch, shut. up. I agree CleoCaesar...can't stand Sarah Bunting either. Words can't describe what a "shit stirrer" she's been written to be this season. Link to comment
Llywela January 20, 2015 Share January 20, 2015 Ok, the dates on the threads is confusing me. First time it ran in UK? Yes, the episode threads are dated for and contain discussion from their original UK airing. Link to comment
MyAimIsTrue January 20, 2015 Share January 20, 2015 Ok, the dates on the threads is confusing me. First time it ran in UK? Correct, it's the original UK air date. Link to comment
Jodithgrace January 20, 2015 Share January 20, 2015 Opening scenes with Mary in the hotel. Wow she looked so incredibly flat chested. Does Michelle Dockery always look like this and the clothes just hide it? Was some kind of "squash the breasts flat" binding popular back then? Yes, as a matter of fact. Large busts were extremely unfashionable during the roaring 20's, as odd as that seems now. Women did flatten them with brassieres or camisoles designed especially for that purpose. I remember that from Thoroughly Modern Millie. 6 Link to comment
Andorra January 20, 2015 Share January 20, 2015 Someone mentioned that we never hear Matthew's name. It becomes even more notable because we hear Sybil mentioned in almost every episode. For example this season: Robert mentions her in episode 1. In episode 2 she's mentioned by Sarah Bunting and by Mary. I don't remember if she is mentioned in episode 3, but we hear her name almost every episode. Link to comment
lottiedottie January 20, 2015 Share January 20, 2015 The only problem with Edith inventing some cover story to say she adopted (or whatever) Marigold is that at some point, isn't someone going to notice that Marigold kind of looks just like Edith? 1 Link to comment
ShadowFacts January 20, 2015 Share January 20, 2015 Why is portraying Russians so painfully difficult for U.S. and British TV shows and movies? Uh, Count Rostov and Prince Kuragin?? Julian Fellowes clearly read War & Peace (or heard about it, is my guess) and slapped on the last names of two of the most famous characters on his crappy soap. Because it's hard coming up with something yourself. Secondly, WTF were those fake Russian accents? They sounded like leprechauns. I wouldn't put it past Fellowes to have the Dowager reminisce about banging Rasputin or something equally stupid and cliche, so maybe we should count our blessings. I love to start out my day with a laugh, so thank you CleoCaesar. And why did they have the refugees milling around the front entrance hall? Couldn't they have taken them to the dining room or library right off? That seemed odd, but I don't know the ways of the aristocracy in their cavernous showplaces. 2 Link to comment
Constantinople January 20, 2015 Share January 20, 2015 Why is portraying Russians so painfully difficult for U.S. and British TV shows and movies? Uh, Count Rostov and Prince Kuragin?? Julian Fellowes clearly read War & Peace (or heard about it, is my guess) and slapped on the last names of two of the most famous characters on his crappy soap. Because it's hard coming up with something yourself. Considering the Crawley family name is straight out of Vanity Fair, and JF is one of the writers crediting with adapting it for the 2004 version of the film, this isn't surprising. Yeah Mary's "huh...so that happened..." expression the morning after was hilarious. Tony clearly did not rock her world. Frankly I just hope he gets home in one piece. The Mary Crawley Vagina Death Count currently stands at 2, with a 100% morality rate, after all. Even though they never anticipated their "secret" engagement, sometimes I think Patrick Crawley should be added to the list. Not sure if there's a theory which accounts for Lavinia as well. 5 Link to comment
Avaleigh January 20, 2015 Share January 20, 2015 (edited) Maybe old Anthony Strallan would step in and marry poor Edith and adopt her child. Robert and Violet would be glad enough to see him then. He might even claim he fathered Marigold during a bout of makeup sex with Edith or something. Whyever not? I would say there are a bunch of reasons why not, mainly that he treated Edith abominably and having her wanting to be with him after he treated her in such a way would make her seem ridiculously pathetic at this point. I can't see Robert or Violet all of a sudden being happy that Edith would choose to marry* him out of the blue when the guy embarrassed the entire family with his behavior. Edith has experienced love with a man who saw something special in her and gave her a life, I can't for a moment even in her current circumstances think that she would be satisfied with taking Strallan back or having him as a stepfather to her child. I feel like for Edith it would be too much of a come down from Gregson. In any case I can't see Strallan "stepping in" because he seems like he would lack that sort of courage. Someone mentioned that we never hear Matthew's name. We heard it at least twice in the season 4 Christmas Special. Was some kind of "squash the breasts flat" binding popular back then? They were indeed. MD has an ideal body type for the period. A "boyish" look was what a lot of girls and women were going for in terms of figure and corsets were often used to achieve it. People think that corsets went out of existence after the war but many women wore stays for various outfits and would continue to do so into the 1930s and beyond. Again, due to poor writing, the viewer is having trouble getting why this is such a big deal. I get that times were different back then, but I am sure that plenty of families had their scandals regarding bastard children and managed to live through it. The problem is that the writers did not give Edith a life with that much at stake. Okay, so maybe in the world of GOOD writing, Edith could be running a magazine for ladies that focused on upper-class, old school "lady" stuff and the magazine's whole success was tied up in the fact that Edith was a virginal lady from a good family, and Edith feels that the magazine is the greatest thing that ever happened to her and it gave her a level of happiness and respect that she never could get at Downton. And so coming out with her bastard daughter really would be the end of her. Nice ideas. This would have been great to see. So many missed opportunities on this show. I'm glad to know that Laura Carmichael has gone on record saying that Edith's behavior just fails to be rational at this point. I saw in the New Years Honours that the Queen named Kristin Scott Thomas a Dame. Seriously? Kristin Scott Thomas? Kristin Scott Thomas is a fabulous actress so I'm glad to know that she has been made a Dame. Not only has she been in over 80 films as CleoCaesar mentioned, but she's bilingual and some of her best work has been in French films like I've Loved You So Long/Il y a longtemps que je t'aime. In the audio commentary for Gosford Park Julian Fellowes talks about working with Kristin and mentions her having trouble with a line where she kept naturally going into French for some reason. I thought she was one of them best performers in that film and it was quite an ensemble. Edited to make sure people know that I mean 1930s as opposed to women being in their thirties. Oh and Mary and marry aren't the same thing. ;-) Edited January 20, 2015 by Avaleigh 3 Link to comment
JudyObscure January 20, 2015 Share January 20, 2015 Fellowes really is awful at names isn't he? I did a little research on popular English baby names of the 1920's just to see if Marigold was quite common at that time and we just didn't know it. No. It wasn't on any list I found and the idea of Edith wanting to name her daughter anything that sounded like "Mary" is hard to imagine. I did notice that their were lots of names that did not start with E so Fellowes had no excuse for his Ethel, Edith, Edna thing either. The only problem with Edith inventing some cover story to say she adopted (or whatever) Marigold is that at some point, isn't someone going to notice that Marigold kind of looks just like Edith? That's why I think a story like, "We visited our distant cousins in Germany whose daughter had died in childbirth and the grandparents were getting feeble so I decided to adopt little Greta and doesn't she fit right in?" 4 Link to comment
txhorns79 January 20, 2015 Share January 20, 2015 I'm now actively rooting for Cora to have an affair. Robert is just that awful. And you know what, no Robert, despite what Cora said later right before that Russian party, you had no right to be cross with her. She did nothing wrong. I also would like all the Downton actors to study the scene with the Dowager when she see the Russian prince. She barely says anything, but you see her face go through about fifty different emotions. It's wonderful acting, and it is something they should all strive for. 7 Link to comment
saki January 20, 2015 Share January 20, 2015 Fellowes really is awful at names isn't he? I did a little research on popular English baby names of the 1920's just to see if Marigold was quite common at that time and we just didn't know it. No. It wasn't on any list I found and the idea of Edith wanting to name her daughter anything that sounded like "Mary" is hard to imagine. I did notice that their were lots of names that did not start with E so Fellowes had no excuse for his Ethel, Edith, Edna thing either. I wonder if this is an accent thing - to me (and I have a very RP English accent - much like Edith's!), Mary and Marigold really don't sound that similar. Ethel and Edna were quite unhelpful, though, particularly because both were servants - I didn't mix them up with Edith particularly. Link to comment
RedHawk January 20, 2015 Share January 20, 2015 Fellowes really is awful at names isn't he? I did a little research on popular English baby names of the 1920's just to see if Marigold was quite common at that time and we just didn't know it. No. I did the same thing! And no, it wasn't even in the top 200 girl's names! I wonder if someday Edith will explain... or if it's some inside joke of Fellowes'. This show. 1 Link to comment
teddysmom January 20, 2015 Share January 20, 2015 The disposable contraceptive sponge was a wonderful thing -- It's back, now called "Today" -- I think it was called "Today" back in the 90s when it first came out. In fact there was a Seinfeld episode about it. Elaine found out they were being discontinued and she bought a case of them from the drug store. Then Susan found out and made George go to Elaine to borrow some. They were absolutely the best. Link to comment
Avaleigh January 20, 2015 Share January 20, 2015 I also would like all the Downton actors to study the scene with the Dowager when she see the Russian prince. She barely says anything, but you see her face go through about fifty different emotions. It's wonderful acting, and it is something they should all strive for. I so agree. I thought it was a nice little scene. To me it was almost like seeing time freeze for a fraction of a moment. That was what I meant in an earlier post when I said it felt like they were the only two people in the room. Her face did go through a bunch of different emotions and I felt like they were both basically experiencing flashes of memories from their time together. On the show Mad Men Don Draper has a line where he says "It felt like somebody turned on the oven in here" and I sort of thought that the characters who were surrounding Violet and the Prince were having similar thoughts. Even Robert who is oblivious to damn near everything caught it--I think they all did. Regarding the name Marigold--isn't it just the flower thing with JF? The flower names pop up in his books too, I think he just likes them. I would have gone with something like Lily but maybe he was trying to be different for a change? He tends to reuse the same names in all of his work but Marigold is probably the most original name he's ever used. (J.K. Rowling is another writer who liked to use flower names to the point where there were characters with names like Lavender, Pansy, Petunia, etc.) I guess we should be thankful that it wasn't something like Gladiola Gregson. Considering how much JF likes E names I'm surprised he didn't go with something like Emma or Eleanor or even some variation of Elizabeth. 2 Link to comment
RedHawk January 20, 2015 Share January 20, 2015 I've started imagining that the naughty lads in their gentlemen's clubs must by now have named a drink "Lady Mary's Poison Pussy". Also, considering all the deaths (or missing presumed possibly dead) by extension, they warn each other, "Sex with the Crawley sisters? Someone always dies!" Perhaps that explains Tony's refusal to give up until he got Mary into bed with him -- he did it on a dare or a bet. And speaking of, I loved how Maggie Smith delivered the lines (paraphrased) "Do you have any hope he will marry you?" to Mary. She's a treasure and sure keeps this show a notch above. 4 Link to comment
LaChavalina January 20, 2015 Share January 20, 2015 I realized as I was going to bed last night that there really was a nice theme to this episode regarding the women. As silly as it seems that Mary--who's already been married and had a child--was running around in secret with a man she was considering marrying, she had a great deal more freedom than Cora (who caught heat for dining in public with a man who wasn't her husband) or Violet (who, evidently, couldn't even accept a fan from a stranger when she was swooning from heat). So, nice narrative arc there. Also, big kudos to Tom in this episode. I wanted to stand up and applaud when he told Mary he'd guessed at the real purpose of her trip, then he laughed it off like it was nothing. So cute, that scene. 3 Link to comment
ZoloftBlob January 20, 2015 Share January 20, 2015 Re: Matthew's name being used We heard it at least twice in the season 4 Christmas Special. Agreed, and I heard Edith use it in Episode one of this season but a friend of mine made the point while we were watching the scene of Tony chatting up Isobel, that if someone was new to the show this season, they'd never know what Isobel's relationship is to the rest of the Crawleys. 4 Link to comment
txhorns79 January 20, 2015 Share January 20, 2015 (edited) I realized as I was going to bed last night that there really was a nice theme to this episode regarding the women. As silly as it seems that Mary--who's already been married and had a child--was running around in secret with a man she was considering marrying, she had a great deal more freedom than Cora (who caught heat for dining in public with a man who wasn't her husband) or Violet (who, evidently, couldn't even accept a fan from a stranger when she was swooning from heat). So, nice narrative arc there. In fairness, you are comparing a widow's behavior to the behavior of two married women. With Violet, it was clear the fan actually indicated real romantic interest, which made the gift inappropriate. With Cora, she was pretty free to do what she wanted (obviously, short of initiating an actual romance with someone else). It was Robert who acted scandalized and insisted that the only reason a man would have an interest in her was for romance, rather than actually caring about her opinions. Edited January 20, 2015 by txhorns79 1 Link to comment
MaryHedwig January 20, 2015 Share January 20, 2015 (edited) Also, big kudos to Tom in this episode. I wanted to stand up and applaud when he told Mary he'd guessed at the real purpose of her trip, then he laughed it off like it was nothing. So cute, that scene. I wondered if Tom guessed right because it was easier to imagine frigid Mary in an illicit love affair than to imagine Mary, or any Crawley sister, having a friend. (Mary's cover story had been that she was going on a sketching trip with a girlfriend.) Edited January 20, 2015 by MaryHedwig 3 Link to comment
Andorra January 20, 2015 Share January 20, 2015 The Tom and Mary friendship is the highlight of the series for me. The only scenes where we see a nicer and more open side of Mary. I like it how they confide in each other and how open and comfortable they are with each other. Link to comment
SoSueMe January 20, 2015 Share January 20, 2015 Penelope Wilton has been one of the best things about this season. To think I hated her so much during the first season, and now Isobel is one of my favourites. How is it possible that Wilton is not a Dame? I saw in the New Years Honours that the Queen named Kristin Scott Thomas a Dame. Seriously? Kristin Scott Thomas? Apart from The English Patient and a bit in Gosford Park, I can't think of anything else she has been memorable in. Definitely drawing a blank on anything remotely recent. Maybe she has a long stage career. But if she's deserving of Damehood, surely Wilton is! Penelope Wilton is terrific, great range. I loved her in Shaun of the Dead (with Bill Nighy, :) ) 2 Link to comment
mightycrone January 20, 2015 Share January 20, 2015 (edited) I think it's telling that so many of us are a bit gaga over the Tom/Mary scene, which, while short in duration, was long in context. Count me in that club, but, it seems like we're gobbling crumbs at this point. As viewers, it's not a lot to ask for to have two main characters sit down for a minute and talk, albeit in their typical, guarded (coded) Downton way. Am I mistaken, or did the earlier seasons have more of this type of exchange? Edited January 21, 2015 by mightycrone 2 Link to comment
ZoloftBlob January 20, 2015 Share January 20, 2015 Am I mistaken, or did the earlier seasons have more of this type of exchange? No, this happened a lot more often in earlier seasons. Part of it is that Dockery and Leech do play well together, and it shows, especially when we get a lot of scenes where Mary is supposed to be showing some chemistry with her man of the day and isn't. 1 Link to comment
ShadowFacts January 20, 2015 Share January 20, 2015 I so agree. I thought it was a nice little scene. To me it was almost like seeing time freeze for a fraction of a moment. That was what I meant in an earlier post when I said it felt like they were the only two people in the room. Her face did go through a bunch of different emotions and I felt like they were both basically experiencing flashes of memories from their time together. Did I get this wrong, or did Violet recount her time in Russia as having been with her husband? Did she really have a dalliance while married? Or was she there previously? I thought I heard her say, or maybe Robert, that she was only there once. I cannot re-watch it right now. If I am not mischaracterizing it, then what she did was a bit more scandalous than widowed Mary and her test run. 2 Link to comment
helenamonster January 20, 2015 Share January 20, 2015 (edited) The only problem with Edith inventing some cover story to say she adopted (or whatever) Marigold is that at some point, isn't someone going to notice that Marigold kind of looks just like Edith? My mom has a friend who adopted a little boy who looks strikingly like her, despite the fact that he's from Pakistan and my mom's friend doesn't have Pakistani roots. People could just brush it off as a coincidence. Fellowes really is awful at names isn't he? I did a little research on popular English baby names of the 1920's just to see if Marigold was quite common at that time and we just didn't know it. No. It wasn't on any list I found and the idea of Edith wanting to name her daughter anything that sounded like "Mary" is hard to imagine. I did notice that their were lots of names that did not start with E so Fellowes had no excuse for his Ethel, Edith, Edna thing either. Daisy and Ivy will always be the worst for me. I know he uses a lot of plant-based names (Violet, Marigold, Rose...even Rosamund has something of a floral root), but the two kitchen maids having those names always irked me. It is very JK Rowling of him, as someone pointed out upthread, but JK Rowling seems to have put a lot of thought behind her more strange names, usually in how certain characters related to each other (Lily and Petunia were both flower names, but were sisters; Sirius and Regulus were brothers and named after the brightest stars in their respective constellations; Hagrid and Dumbledore had first names meaning red and white, respectively, and were supposed to represent two different types of father figures in Harry's early days at Hogwarts; etc.). I'm now actively rooting for Cora to have an affair. Robert is just that awful. And you know what, no Robert, despite what Cora said later right before that Russian party, you had no right to be cross with her. She did nothing wrong. I'm rooting for this too, but I don't think it'll happen. Cora just doesn't seem like the affair-having type. But I'll enjoy their little walk-and-talks while I can. Rewatch notes... Anna: "I feel like I'm aiding and abetting a sin. I hope I won't be made to pay for it." Y'all, the anvils are dropping fast and heavy and they are terrifying. And she still totally thinks Bates killed Green. Edith's headscarf game is still strong. At least she has that going for her. I also realized that she's probably spending more time with Marigold than Tom and Mary are with Sybbie and George. Huh. I loved Carson's "Are you quite well?" after Mrs. Hughes asked him to put Archie's name on the memorial. And Mrs. Patmore's "Sympathy butters no parsnips." She always has some of the best turns of phrase. I wonder of Mrs. Drewe has put five and seven together. When Mr. Drewe came to talk to Edith, he almost seemed like he was telling her to stay away for her own good as much as for Mrs. Drewe's. Maybe she threatened to start spreading the rumor if Edith kept popping up and disrupting their day. Edited January 20, 2015 by helenamonster 3 Link to comment
lovinbob January 20, 2015 Share January 20, 2015 I haven't read any intel about Fellowes and whatever anger he may harbor about Dan Stevens departure, but I hardly think Matthew has gone unremembered. Mary mentions him frequently, if not by name by invoking her marriage, their love, and her passion for him. The whole storyline of Isobel's grief and discomfort sharing happy times with the other Crawleys feels like a big love letter to Matthew. And while I couldn't swear by it, I feel like Mary brings up his name frequently enough. Tony Gillingham's solicitude with Isobel wasn't necessary--if Fellowes wanted to cast Matthew's memory aside he wouldn't have chosen to write that moment. I don't think Tony's necessarily bad in bed; to me this showed that despite her protestations to Granny, Mary needs both sex and love. I know this is an unpopular notion, but I'd love to see some kind of relationship with Tom explored. At least to have them acknowledge how much they do care for one another, even if a relationship wouldn't work. Edith breaks my heart but I'm quite impatient with her. She made her bed. I was cheering for her when she defied Rosamund by bringing Marigold back, but indeed Rosamund was right! Mr. Drewe is an insensitive jerk. I wouldn't be surprised if he did have some kind of design on Edith. I love the Cora storyline, and hearing about her life before Robert. 2 Link to comment
Maya January 20, 2015 Share January 20, 2015 I can't figure out how to quote right now, but I too can't figure out why everyone thought it was so delicious and funny that their grandmother had an extra marital affair. Is that not what was implied? Link to comment
MyAimIsTrue January 20, 2015 Share January 20, 2015 I wouldn't say I found it delicious or funny but if Violet did in fact have an affair then how can she judge and chastise an unmarried Mary for sleeping with Gillingham? 3 Link to comment
SusanSunflower January 20, 2015 Share January 20, 2015 (edited) Anvil alert -- Violet's "dalliance" in Russia parallel to Cora and what's-his-name?? ETA: I actually didn't see it until the last few posts, but ... It's Fellowes. Question: Were Robert or Cora among those smirking? Edited January 20, 2015 by SusanSunflower 1 Link to comment
Kohola3 January 20, 2015 Share January 20, 2015 I don't know if it was truly an extramarital affair based on the gift of a fan in a hot room. But perhaps others read more into it than I did. 5 Link to comment
SusanSunflower January 20, 2015 Share January 20, 2015 Oh, I think it was probably just a flirtation -- but who knows? I don't find marital infidelity amusing or even terribly interesting as a plot device, but obviously I'm in the minority given the popularity of stories that revolve around same. My guess is that like Cora, Violet was "technically" and in reality blameless, forced to keep a "guilty" secret to avoid the appearance of impropriety -- Caesar's Wife 6 Link to comment
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