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Spoilers With Speculation

SueB

By SueB
in Supernatural

ohjoy
Message added by ohjoy

Please keep your speculation and comments on the end of Supernatural in the Supernatural Ending topic. Use this topic here or the Bitter Speculation topic for discussion of the upcoming season only. As always, keep Bitch vs. Jerk discussion in its own topic.

Thank you.

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Bobcatkitten

Bobcatkitten

2 hours ago, gonzosgirrl said:

This is not a spoiler, just a speculation. I noticed that Gen's location is Vancouver. Could a Ruby revival be on the horizon? I'd almost be more surprised it if didn't happen before it's over.

 

hmm.JPG

Yeah she's been there a few days. I absolutely expect her to pop up. Jared even said he wants her to.

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PeterKahlke
PeterKahlke

NEXT ON SUPERNATURAL Sam and Dean search for the yellow-eyed thing that killed their mom.

devlin
devlin

I don’t care who JA is going to be playing. I could seriously watch this guy read the phone book and be completely enthralled. I am just looking forward to some powerhouse acting full of nuances by wh

gonzosgirrl
gonzosgirrl

So, so over it. You're a big boy - if you don't agree, put up or shut your judgey piehole.

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Jonesy

Jonesy

(edited)

I read a review of the last episode which stated when Sam let go of the orb and Chuck smashed the orb at the end--he freed Cas of the Mark.  I'll have to watch it again because i'm fuzzy on that point.  Is this true--is Cas free of the Mark now?   I'd be super pissed if they had Cas go mad from the Mark in the end and get all boxed up.

Edited by Jakes
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SueB

SueB

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4 hours ago, Jakes said:

I read a review of the last episode which stated when Sam let go of the orb and Chuck smashed the orb at the end--he freed Cas of the Mark.  I'll have to watch it again because i'm fuzzy on that point.  Is this true--is Cas free of the Mark now?   I'd be super pissed if they had Cas go mad from the Mark in the end and get all boxed up.

Yes.  It's similar to when Sam almost had the Mark.  As soon as Amara overpowered Chuck and didn't get locked away, the Mark that was forming on Sam's arm disappeared. And Sam didn't start to get the Mark until Amara was starting to be forced into her prison.  I don't think Cas actually had a Mark, I think the Mark would form as Chuck was sucked into his trap (which he wasn't).  In short, no Mark. 

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Jonesy

Jonesy

13 minutes ago, SueB said:

Yes.  It's similar to when Sam almost had the Mark.  As soon as Amara overpowered Chuck and didn't get locked away, the Mark that was forming on Sam's arm disappeared. And Sam didn't start to get the Mark until Amara was starting to be forced into her prison.  I don't think Cas actually had a Mark, I think the Mark would form as Chuck was sucked into his trap (which he wasn't).  In short, no Mark. 

That's great news--thanks for the info!

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catrox14

catrox14

10 hours ago, SueB said:

Yes.  It's similar to when Sam almost had the Mark.  As soon as Amara overpowered Chuck and didn't get locked away, the Mark that was forming on Sam's arm disappeared. And Sam didn't start to get the Mark until Amara was starting to be forced into her prison.  I don't think Cas actually had a Mark, I think the Mark would form as Chuck was sucked into his trap (which he wasn't).  In short, no Mark. 

So then Cas could still take on the Mark down the line.

Aeryn13

Aeryn13

7 minutes ago, 7kstar said:

Not that it matters really with LOL cannon, but why couldn't Dean take the mark twice.  Wasn't it some kind of thing that you had to be worthy of the mark?  How was Cas worthy?

They already pulled that nonsense in the Season 11 penultimate episode. No explanation for why the Mark can't be carried twice, just more along the lines of "eff it, it's in the script".

However, I don't think anyone will take any Mark. The "seal away" idea seems one and done. My guess would be Jackie-poo sucks his powers like a vampire, becoming the new God and leaving Chuck as some schlub without powers.

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Myrelle

Myrelle

(edited)
2 hours ago, Aeryn13 said:

They already pulled that nonsense in the Season 11 penultimate episode. No explanation for why the Mark can't be carried twice, just more along the lines of "eff it, it's in the script".

However, I don't think anyone will take any Mark. The "seal away" idea seems one and done. My guess would be Jackie-poo sucks his powers like a vampire, becoming the new God and leaving Chuck as some schlub without powers.

IA.

I also don't feel that the question of whether Chuck was lying to Sam by showing him the future will ever come up again either.

As Aeryn mentioned in the episode thread, the teflon was applied when Dean said that Sam's feeling that it was truth, was good enough for him(Dean).

I think they will be moving on to the NougatBaby being the answer after this next comedic episode. 

I am worried about them now turning Sam into the tragic hero of the show once again a la S5 by his having been "broken" in last week's show and with Eileen leaving and with Dean and Cas having made up(even if the Destiehellers were denied their kiss 🙄).

I keep trying to figure out how we'd get Amara possessing Sam...

Maybe Chuck's appreciation of Dean's meatsuit while Dean was all up in his face and those side notes from the demon quarter of how Chuck is perving over Dean will have Chuck looking to trade up as far as his vessel is concerned and maybe he'll want Dean's body. 

And if they have the NougatBaby waiting in the wings to take Chuck's place, Chuck would be obsolete wherein we would get Amara possessing Sam as the only way to get someone close enough(who would also be powerful enough to get the deed done) to Dean/Chuck in order to take Chuck out.

And if we lose one of the brothers in that way, even Chuck's ending would come to pass also.

Edited by Myrelle
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Castiels Cat

Castiels Cat

(edited)
2 hours ago, 7kstar said:

Not that it matters really with LOL cannon, but why couldn't Dean take the mark twice.  Wasn't it some kind of thing that you had to be worthy of the mark?  How was Cas worthy?

According to Chuck's future he wasn't worthy because he went mad and had to be locked in a Malak box. And Chuck was probably lying about the one mark to a customer rule because he lies. Why didn't they bring a bag and grab more than one flower and test this out by making multiple balls. Dean actually did pretty well with the Mark considering ...i think he would rock it if people would support him.

Edited by Castiels Cat
Castiels Cat

Castiels Cat

(edited)
On 1/15/2020 at 1:03 PM, Jakes said:

Eh, the interview was fine.  Don't think Dabb was saying only Sam was God-like, it's clear to me Dean would be included in that statement if he was in that part with Sam.  Also don't think the episode will only be the Sam part--the Dean and Cas part will be significant too. 

Dean literally slept in Purgatory. Despite being the one to kill Dick and Eve he was of no interest to the Leviathan. He didn't even grab any flowers despite sleeping amongst them. From this I speculate that the writers had absolutely no interest in him or his experiences in Purgatory and Dabb is full of it.

Dean apologized to Cas who was of interest to Eve who the Leviathan were working for despite the fact that previously they had referred to her as a mongrel breeder. He escapes off screen after being roughed up off screen. I speculate that Cas is of marginally more interest to the writers than Dean.

The majority of the episode revolved around Chuck and Sam. Eileen was Chuck's puppet. Sam was Chuck's dupe. Chuck directly manipulated Eileen literally and he manipulated Ssm to as in playing him. The writers are using both characters to make a point.

Sam was also a dope and ruined the plans to lock Chuck up which opens the way for Just Jack...  we know this is whom we are supposed to be excited for because of SM marketing and of course Eugenia believes that the audience is that Riverdale crowd. I speculate that his storyline will get the bells and whistles however because he is superpowered all he has to do is wave his hand or scream or somesuch. It will be boring and ridiculous like the end of Ouroboros. 

Dean stands tall and strong and continues his streak of playing by his own rules which irks and intrigues Chuck. The majority of fans signed up for human heroes being badass in Jeans. I speculate there will be too little of this.

It's odd that the writers care so little for Dean that the have him sleep in Purgatory and kill Benny off in a sentence off screen yet they give him such power over Chuck to defy the WORD.

I speculate that it will be a long eleven episodes.

 

Edited by Castiels Cat
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Castiels Cat

Castiels Cat

16 hours ago, SueB said:

Yes.  It's similar to when Sam almost had the Mark.  As soon as Amara overpowered Chuck and didn't get locked away, the Mark that was forming on Sam's arm disappeared. And Sam didn't start to get the Mark until Amara was starting to be forced into her prison.  I don't think Cas actually had a Mark, I think the Mark would form as Chuck was sucked into his trap (which he wasn't).  In short, no Mark. 

I agree. 

Harleycat

Harleycat

49 minutes ago, Castiels Cat said:

It's odd that the writers care so little for Dean that the have him sleep in Purgatory and kill Benny off in a sentence off screen yet they give him such power over Chuck to defy the WORD.

I speculate that it will be a long eleven episodes.

 

As long as Jensen keeps bringing it in his delivery of these nonsensical scenes I don't care what they have him do. He made the entire episode. It makes sense to me that they wanted to give Jared an opportunity to step up his acting by not having Jensen around to blow him out of the water. But the thing is Jared still was as bland and forgettable as ever all by himself. He looked especially like he wasn't even trying next to the guy who plays Chuck who was obviously giving it his all.

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hunenka

hunenka

8 hours ago, Castiels Cat said:

He didn't even grab any flowers despite sleeping amongst them.

I was bothered by this too, but on rewatch of the scene where he wakes up, I noticed that all the Leviathan blossoms in the field were burned -- the Leviathans probably figured that if Dean and Castiel were looking for these flowers, it would be best to destroy them.

So at least it wasn't a case of Dean being written as so dumb that he doesn't even get what he needs when it's right in front of him.

(Not that it changes anything about your point of the writers having no interest in Dean, or his Purgatory experience.)

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Castiels Cat

Castiels Cat

14 hours ago, hunenka said:

I was bothered by this too, but on rewatch of the scene where he wakes up, I noticed that all the Leviathan blossoms in the field were burned -- the Leviathans probably figured that if Dean and Castiel were looking for these flowers, it would be best to destroy them.

So at least it wasn't a case of Dean being written as so dumb that he doesn't even get what he needs when it's right in front of him.

(Not that it changes anything about your point of the writers having no interest in Dean, or his Purgatory experience.)

Oh thanks. I missed that.

Casseiopeia

Casseiopeia

On 1/21/2020 at 7:52 AM, ILoveReading said:

Gen was in Vancouver so I'd say between that and this there is a strong possibility we will see Ruby again.

Or since Walker is being filmed in Austin maybe a small part on the new show?

2 hours ago, Jakes said:

DJ Qualls being interviewed--seems like this episode is likely the goodbye to Garth.  By how DJ talks about it...i'm almost 100% sure Garth ends the show alive.  Good--I like Garth.

https://www.tvguide.com/news/supernatural-season-15-episode-10-dj-qualls-garth/?UniqueID=65D01798-3D50-11EA-B90F-95B096E8478F&ServiceType=twitter&TheTime=2020-01-22T19%3A50%3A10&ftag=COS-05-10aaa3b&PostType=image

Bergamot

Bergamot

1 hour ago, Casseiopeia said:
4 hours ago, Jakes said:

DJ Qualls being interviewed--seems like this episode is likely the goodbye to Garth.  By how DJ talks about it...i'm almost 100% sure Garth ends the show alive.  Good--I like Garth.

https://www.tvguide.com/news/supernatural-season-15-episode-10-dj-qualls-garth/?UniqueID=65D01798-3D50-11EA-B90F-95B096E8478F&ServiceType=twitter&TheTime=2020-01-22T19%3A50%3A10&ftag=COS-05-10aaa3b&PostType=image

This is the part of the interview that caught my attention:

Quote

Jensen and I are asked to do something that neither one of us can do. It's a really specific skill that we had to learn, so it's a big surprise in the middle of the episode for the audience. It's a great surprise and it's beautifully shot and so fun, but we're both crapping ourselves because it's a really, really hard thing they've asked us to do. I had a sneaking suspicion that Jensen would sort of muddle through the learning of this thing when I was with him and then show up and be amazing — and he was. So I was so glad that I spent so much time in my hotel room knocking over things and doing whatever I had to do to learn this skill. We showed up and we both killed it, and it's a really funny, sweet moment in the show.

Any guesses on what this "skill" is? My guess comes from that shot in the "Drowning" video where we see Dean in the white suit and hat, standing in a spotlight as curtains open. Maybe, for some bizarre reason, we see the two of them dancing? Because, okay, now I want to see Jensen doing some sort of soft-shoe tap dance!

I have to say, his description of Jensen "sort of muddling through" as they were learning, only to then "show up and be amazing", sounds just like Jensen. He continually amazes me at how he manages to be good at so many things! 

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PAForrest

PAForrest

10 hours ago, Bergamot said:

This is the part of the interview that caught my attention:

Any guesses on what this "skill" is? My guess comes from that shot in the "Drowning" video where we see Dean in the white suit and hat, standing in a spotlight as curtains open. Maybe, for some bizarre reason, we see the two of them dancing? Because, okay, now I want to see Jensen doing some sort of soft-shoe tap dance!

I have to say, his description of Jensen "sort of muddling through" as they were learning, only to then "show up and be amazing", sounds just like Jensen. He continually amazes me at how he manages to be good at so many things! 

It is dancing. When I was in Jensen's Jaxcon M&G, he showed us all a picture on his phone of he and DJ dressed in white tails and top hats. He didn't tell us how it comes about, but my guess is that in one of the promo shots we see Garth doing dental work on Dean, so it probably happens then. I'm thinking Garth uses the gas on Dean and it's all one of those drug-addled hallucinations you get in that situation.

Jensen seemed psyched about it, and after reading DJ's interview, I'm really looking forward to it, even though I'm sure the sequence won't last very long.

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gonzosgirrl

gonzosgirrl

I read some spec that the babies are Garth's children and that he named them after the brothers. No clue if that's accurate or fanfic. I've seen two versions, that they are twin boys named after Dean and Sam, or, they are twin boys named Sam and Cas and the older girl is named Deanna. First I rolled my eyes because yeah, Dabb would think it's funny to name the girl after Dean, but then I immediately head-canoned it into Garth naming his first born after Dean. But then my actual brain wondered why Garth would name his kid Cas. Does he even know Cas?

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Aeryn13

Aeryn13

(edited)

Well, there were these rumors of baby!Sam and baby!Cas a while back for this episode. So maybe that was legit, just not as de-aged version but as Garth`s kids. Wouldn`t put it past Dabb to have no child named after Dean. However Cas? Weird. Because nope, I don`t think Garth knows him. Maybe he is an avid reader of Chuck`s books. 

Since DJ Qualls said Garth will be the one dropping some wisdom here, with the premise I can`t even begin to make sense of it. I mean, Chuck writing them as failures for his petty pleasure? Make sense. Chuck "revoking their hero card" is nonsense and makes it seem like they have no skills, just only ever what Chuck gave them.

Sure, they are struck with "normal problems" in a way that heroes are but you just don`t see in stories. Like you don`t see them using the toilet and stuff like that. For example, I doubt they never had a cold once in their lifes ever. What wisdom of "Garth" is supposed to help with that? "We normal folks do this all the time". Despite everything, the Winchesters ARE normal folks. If Chuck writes them one way, though, what are they supposed to do about it? Concentrate real hard and overcome colds and cavities?     

Edited by Aeryn13
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Castiels Cat

Castiels Cat

(edited)
1 hour ago, gonzosgirrl said:

I read some spec that the babies are Garth's children and that he named them after the brothers. No clue if that's accurate or fanfic. I've seen two versions, that they are twin boys named after Dean and Sam, or, they are twin boys named Sam and Cas and the older girl is named Deanna. First I rolled my eyes because yeah, Dabb would think it's funny to name the girl after Dean, but then I immediately head-canoned it into Garth naming his first born after Dean. But then my actual brain wondered why Garth would name his kid Cas. Does he even know Cas?

They do not know the show's canon. It's likely they assume that they met when the closest experience was that they were in the same parking lot in The Spear except that Garth was locked in the trunk.

In s 7 the Leviathan were disdainful of Eve with Edgar calling her a mutt when the alpha tried to claim kinship to him althrough it appears that now they worship her.

Edited by Castiels Cat
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Binns

Binns

I’m legitimately wondering if there’s a way for me to continue watching this if tonight ends up being about Chuck having manipulated their actions this whole time. Like is next week supposed to be they regain their skills by some magic ritual or whatever? Because they learned how to do all of these things from John, Bobby, Pastor Jim, Caleb, etc. Maybe tonight was actually Chuck putting his fingers on the scale and forcing them into “forgetting” their skills? I can’t bear to think that Dabb is trying to say that everything they’ve done has been manipulated by Chuck, especially when we know that Chuck has been absent for loooooong stretches when the boys have been active. Like, years and years of time that he wasn’t around. So in my mind he can’t have been manipulating them into success this whole time. Someone agree with me so I can get some sleep tonight. 

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gonzosgirrl

gonzosgirrl

2 minutes ago, Binns said:

I’m legitimately wondering if there’s a way for me to continue watching this if tonight ends up being about Chuck having manipulated their actions this whole time. Like is next week supposed to be they regain their skills by some magic ritual or whatever? Because they learned how to do all of these things from John, Bobby, Pastor Jim, Caleb, etc. Maybe tonight was actually Chuck putting his fingers on the scale and forcing them into “forgetting” their skills? I can’t bear to think that Dabb is trying to say that everything they’ve done has been manipulated by Chuck, especially when we know that Chuck has been absent for loooooong stretches when the boys have been active. Like, years and years of time that he wasn’t around. So in my mind he can’t have been manipulating them into success this whole time. Someone agree with me so I can get some sleep tonight. 

Well, canon changes from week to week so you never...

Nah. It's fucked.

Sorry.

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BabySpinach

BabySpinach

1 minute ago, Binns said:

I’m legitimately wondering if there’s a way for me to continue watching this if tonight ends up being about Chuck having manipulated their actions this whole time. Like is next week supposed to be they regain their skills by some magic ritual or whatever? Because they learned how to do all of these things from John, Bobby, Pastor Jim, Caleb, etc. Maybe tonight was actually Chuck putting his fingers on the scale and forcing them into “forgetting” their skills? I can’t bear to think that Dabb is trying to say that everything they’ve done has been manipulated by Chuck, especially when we know that Chuck has been absent for loooooong stretches when the boys have been active. Like, years and years of time that he wasn’t around. So in my mind he can’t have been manipulating them into success this whole time. Someone agree with me so I can get some sleep tonight. 

Personally, I'm not sure that 15.11 is necessarily going to resolve with them finding a Big Shiny that somehow restores their "luck" against the will of God Himself. Maybe the whole "Dumbo never needed the feather to fly" is being reserved for next week. Sam and Dean are definitely going to restore their mojo at some point, the only question is how.

But since the writers care squat about the basics of story progression, I'd say maybe a 10% chance of them not shitting the bed in round 2. The canon and story rules right now are looser than the bottomless orifice that Dabb pulls his terrible ideas out of. 

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Binns

Binns

4 minutes ago, BabySpinach said:

Personally, I'm not sure that 15.11 is necessarily going to resolve with them finding a Big Shiny that somehow restores their "luck" against the will of God Himself. Maybe the whole "Dumbo never needed the feather to fly" is being reserved for next week. Sam and Dean are definitely going to restore their mojo at some point, the only question is how.

But since the writers care squat about the basics of story progression, I'd say maybe a 10% chance of them not shitting the bed in round 2. The canon and story rules right now are looser than the bottomless orifice that Dabb pulls his terrible ideas out of. 

Ugh, we’ll see I guess. I don’t like the idea of “restoring mojo” one bit bc you’ll never convince me that they don’t have their skills and all of that legitimately. But who knows what drivel will come out next week. I feel bad for JP/JA but mostly I feel bad for the fans. And I hate feeling this way, because I wanted to go into this season with low low expectations and just hope that they wouldn’t actively ruin my show. 

Bali

Bali

Now it's is time to address the "Next week we go to Alaska" nonsense! Do the idiot writers think we're even a bit nervous because some no name bad guy woman says she's going to take their lives if they lose? (I know I've seen that woman in other shows, but can't place her.) In my dream episode, she says, "If you lose I take your lives." and then one of two things happens. They laugh hysterically and say, "Bitch please- God is gunning for us, so take your shot. It will end this all earlier and it will probably be less messy. But there are still some episodes left in the season, so I don't fancy your odds." OR- Rowena shows up and smites her to nothing and says, "No one messes with my boys." But I prefer "Bitch please".

 

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Binns

Binns

30 minutes ago, Bali said:

Now it's is time to address the "Next week we go to Alaska" nonsense! Do the idiot writers think we're even a bit nervous because some no name bad guy woman says she's going to take their lives if they lose? (I know I've seen that woman in other shows, but can't place her.) In my dream episode, she says, "If you lose I take your lives." and then one of two things happens. They laugh hysterically and say, "Bitch please- God is gunning for us, so take your shot. It will end this all earlier and it will probably be less messy. But there are still some episodes left in the season, so I don't fancy your odds." OR- Rowena shows up and smites her to nothing and says, "No one messes with my boys." But I prefer "Bitch please".

 

I’m concerned that they think they can play well considering according to Dabb all of their skills have been taken away and were never theirs in the first place. I thought last night was supposed to be a one off and I was REALLY bitter when I realized the bullshit was carrying over into another episode. I don’t want to be hate-watching one of my all time favorite shows. 

Myrelle

Myrelle

(edited)
1 hour ago, Aeryn13 said:

I think this episode will be pretty much a replay of the poker episode from Season 5. Minus Dean getting aged. But other than that? Yup. Which means somehow Sam gets his "mojo" back and Dean either not really or as an addendum by default or something.  

Yup. IA.

IMO, They've been trying for years to tell us that, in their minds, there's only one Hero on this show and while, yes, he has an older brother, that brother is only the sidekick in this story.

 

Edited by Myrelle
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Castiels Cat

Castiels Cat

Do Purgatory Monsters have bodies?

They are dead souls and that's all Cas sucked in yet Dean fought them. He used a spell to suck Benny into his arm.

--------------

But didn't Lovecraft use the same spell Cas used? That spell pulls them in to whomever is on the other side. They all went into Cas. In Lovecraft's case she went into a woman who was there and they stopped. They rushed through the interesting stuff for that wretchedHumpedty Sam episode.

The fact that they need a vessel here implies they are souls. In season 7 the Leviathan needed vessels.

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Castiels Cat

Castiels Cat

4 minutes ago, ahrtee said:

Lovecraft didn't use the same spell.  Cas's spell required the blood of someone from Purgatory.  IIRC, Lovecraft didn't even know it was Purgatory he was trying to get to, just a door to "another dimension".  

I had forgotten that. But they are souls not corporeal because they are dead and Cas absorbed them. Lovecraft's writing is weird and talks about interdimensional doorway in some works.

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Castiels Cat

Castiels Cat

14 hours ago, ahrtee said:

Lovecraft didn't use the same spell.  Cas's spell required the blood of someone from Purgatory.  IIRC, Lovecraft didn't even know it was Purgatory he was trying to get to, just a door to "another dimension".  

I read your thoughtful comment in All episodes... too.  

If anyone came back in Cas it would be Eve. She would be the only one that would make sense given that she apparently is in charge in Purgatory now, wanted Cas specifically and we were shown a future overrun with Monsters. 

Now why would Dabb clutter up the last 10 episodes with another storyline... it's his schtick x 2. He throws extra nonsense in a lot and he wanted monsters for both of his spin-offs. He might still be angling for a backdoor spin-off since the Originals managed one based on monsters.

Lol... as if.

Jack will negate any future that Chuck showed them. I imagine Eve may have been working with Chuck much like Lilith was and Eileen unknowingly. Plan thwarted and/or Eyes on the inside.

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Castiels Cat

Castiels Cat

14 hours ago, catrox14 said:

So, how are the boys going to get across the Canadian border to get to Alaska.....I mean given they're shit out of luck situation now....how does that happen. Surely they'll get captured by the Canadian border patrol?

They must have mounted police id's in their bags somewhere, eh? 

Wanna take bets on a 30 Days of Night/Strange Brew Mash-Up. Barrow, Alaska is the setting for the former and gun toting,,beer loving Americans sneaking into Canada evokes Strange Brew.

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ohjoy
Message added by ohjoy

Please keep your speculation and comments on the end of Supernatural in the Supernatural Ending topic. Use this topic here or the Bitter Speculation topic for discussion of the upcoming season only. As always, keep Bitch vs. Jerk discussion in its own topic.

Thank you.

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