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SilverStormm

Erin and Chad: Fifty Shades of Pink

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I like Erin and Chad. We don't know much about him yet, but he seems to genuinely love her. I always thought she was very talented with her music and was happy to see that she did complete college (I know there was some talk about it not being accredited, but still a better choice that the online College Plus program). Does she teach students the piano? I thought I had seen this in the Bates family blog. Hopefully they'll be able to find out what's going on with her since she's had 3 miscarriages in a year. Same thing happened to my mom over 50 years ago (actually it was 4) , who went on to have the 3 of us in the 60's. By the time my sister and I were expecting our first kids around 20 years ago, it turns out that both of us had very low progesterone and had to take it throughout our pregnancies...my sister did almost miscarry her oldest daughter, now 26, until the doctors discovered this. I'm hoping it's just a simple case of hormone imbalance for Erin too and she'll be able to have no further problems.

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I'm pretty sure that Crown College is not accredited BUT that doesn't really matter for certain career paths. I'm sure that Erin figured the most she would ever be doing with a music degree would be at church or in her home or maybe in a Christian school, where nobody cares about accreditation.

 

Didn't Kelly get progesterone shots in her later pregnancies? If low hormone levels is genetic, that could be Erin's issue.

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Erin's first miscarriage was an empty sac so not a progesterone problem.  The second two we haven't been told, but most OBs I've known would have checked hormone levels on the third pregnancy. 

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No matter what they say, I feel like all these fundie families will be a bit smaller in the next generation mostly because they have seen the financial hardship of having so many kids to support. Chad is one of 10 kids. With families likely getting smaller in the next gen and with the issues they're having right now -- I bet he'd be happy with 2-4 kids. I realize 2-4 is a lot to think about for a couple that is struggling to conceive their first, BUT she's able to get pregnant and not stay pregnant. I have to imagine there are drugs that'll help keep her pregnant. Given that they seem miserable -- even Chad looked near tears in the interviews every time he said "it's not easy" and looked SO down at the baby shower -- and they're still young, I'm shocked that they don't stop trying for a while. It'll allow them a chance to get a physical work up, to mentally recover, to have "fun" with the -- we're not trying, if it happens it happens mentality. Who knows maybe that way they get pregnant and stay pregnant. But if they don't -- then after a yr or two of not thinking about it, they can go back to the dr., get whatever drugs may be needed and try. I completely understand why they're so sad, but I feel like they may be pressuring themselves as if they're 40 yrs old and saying -- we must conceive NOW because we don't have time left.

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I think that both Erin and Chad seemed more relaxed and happier in this episode. It might be that they're still getting used to being in front of the camera, but overall it looked like the dinner she made with her siblings looked like fun (and the younger ones were cracking me up, all talking at once). They seemed relieved once they visited the doctor, too.

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Erin has a clotting disorder called PAI. It is a recessive-gene condition, so some of her sisters could also be afflicted with this somewhere down the line (obviously, Alyssa is in the clear). I read that part of the problem is that embryos have trouble attaching to the uterus, or staying attached once there. With this knowledge, it would seem her miscarriages were very, very early; I can see getting a positive pee stick, but an empty sac at the first doctor's appointment. She was told to take Folic Acid (have to take that anyway during the first trimester) and low-dose aspirin (obviously must be stopped before her positive pee stick dries because: birth defects). This won't guarantee that she can maintain a pregnancy (from what I read, miscarriage rates are still pretty high), but gives them *something* to cling to. 

 

Knowing this, it's safe to say she's going to have a ton of miscarriages, but only a few kids. I'd be surprised if she had more than 3 or 4 (ie. an Alyssa-sized family).

Edited by Sew Sumi
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I think what the doctor was saying was that she had AAS (antiphospholipid antibody syndrome). It's a clotting disorder wherein the body recognizes the embryo as foreign and clots in response. Usually, an aspirin can help, but in severe cases, daily shots of heparin are necessary to keep the pregnancy viable.

A surrogate wouldn't be necessary and, no, low dose aspirin does not cause birth defects. The heparin therapy used for the most severe cases is only stopped around 35 weeks, so mom doesn't bleed excessively post delivery. Aspirin is chemically too large to pass through the placental barrier.

Edited by wanderwoman

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I think what the doctor was saying was that she had AAS (antiphospholipid antibody syndrome). It's a clotting disorder wherein the body recognizes the embryo as foreign and clots in response. Usually, an aspirin can help, but in severe cases, daily shots of heparin are necessary to keep the pregnancy viable.

A surrogate wouldn't be necessary and, no, low dose aspirin does not cause birth defects. The heparin therapy used for the most severe cases is only stopped around 35 weeks, so mom doesn't bleed excessively post delivery. Aspirin is chemically too large to pass through the placental barrier.

I'm not a doctor but that sounds like a long road to me. Hopefully she has a "mild" condition that can just be managed with daily aspirin to give them several healthy pregnancies. If it got down to needing daily shots to keep a pregnancy viable, I realize they just teach you/your spouse to give yourself the shots, but I don't see how the couple can do that for more than 1-2 pregnancies; it would almost be too much "pressure" and if any little thing went wrong, I could see Chad beating himself up for life about -- it's my fault, I gave her the shot 15 later yesterday than normal; as he does seem pretty emotional on the pregnancy issue and re seeing Erin upset.

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I have AAS and I don't think that's what Erin has.  It's similar though.  I take a baby aspirin every day and all seems fine.  I definitely lost more pregancies than I carried to term though.  When you know there is a reason for the miscarriages, for me it became much easier to get over them.  It's like keep trying until the odds are in your favor.  The shots really aren't a big deal for most people that I've known.

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I just watched the episode again. The doctor specified PAI as well as saying "plasminogen activator inhibitor." eta: Here's what Mr. Wikipedia has to say (the other articles I found were for the medical community and contained far too much jargon): 

 

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Plasminogen_activator_inhibitor-1

I'm not her doctor, so if that's what he said she had, then I'm in no position to argue with his diagnosis. I do, however, think it's sort of an unusual diagnosis given her symptoms. Of note, also, is that APA results from the same genetic mutation, on the same allele. For one, PAI1 effects the second and third trimester pregnant woman's body. Was Erin that far along? The chemistry of the disease would hit Erin's liver and cause toxicity, not miscarriages (typically). There seems to be a recommendation for patients with this disease to start taking Lenovox, aspirin, and a long acting insulin, as well as progesterone in early weeks to help get you to the 12 week mark. What's interesting is that we know Kelly required progesterone and, in fact, was hospitalized with liver and bleeding problems, as well as developing a palsy during her final trimester. All of these are consistent with the syndrome Erin was diagnosed with. You'd think, with that sort of maternal history, they would be cautious about pregnancy. You can read more about it here:

http://m.clinchem.org/content/49/7/1081.full

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Awww....Erin posted this to Instagram today. Aside from the "spiritual leader" bit (I hope he also considers her a "leader" and that their marriage has some sense of being egalitarian), it melted my cold, cynical heart. :)

 

http://instagram.com/p/xzjyCHFUDZ/?modal=true

 

eta: That was the doctor's diagnosis and it's on tape. If she got as far as the second trimester, it only happened once (and they never announced the pregnancy).  We know she had three miscarriages in the span of about 8 months (first D&C happened in March, doctor in November). I don't know what information the doctor had to make that diagnosis, but the bottom line is that he did. 

Edited by Sew Sumi
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I always thought the pink bedroom was about growing up with 18 siblings and having tight finances and never getting what you personally wanted because you had to compromise with so many others. Chad "let" her have the pink bedroom -- i.e. he didn't fight about it -- she got what she wanted, she probably realized she had had enough of the baby girl pink and got it out of her system in a year and now they're moving towards a more normal look. Worked out for the best for them without Chad pulling the "I'm the headship, I won't sleep in a room like this," and instead just saying -- it matters more to her than to me, so whatever.

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Ok, I have to admit a couple of things.  I have a pink room.  It's the guest room, but it's my "girly girl" room.  I'm the only female in my house & I have lots of fancy tea sets & yes, dolls & special (to me) stuffed animals.  Instead of having a girly theme everywhere, I contained my pink fluffy fetish to the guest room.  And yes, it has frilly curtains, but they are red, not sheer. 

 

Also, my house is pink.  And yes, that was absolutely a plus selling point for me.  As hubby says, I got my pink house & he got an acre of land & it was a fair trade. 

 

and nope, I wasn't deprived of pink as a child.  I'm the only girl & always had a pink room growing up.  I just frigging like pink.  lol

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Awww....Erin posted this to Instagram today.

I looked through Erin's Instagram photos and I will agree that Chad's notes were sweet. But am I the only one that gets bugged by all the hashtag run-on sentences that she uses (and other people do it too)? I know it's trendy, or whatever, but why put another 2 or 3 thoughts in a hashtag? Why not just add them as regular sentences to the comments? All the cutesy hashtags somehow come across as bragging or smugness, IMO. I also notice fundies often talk about how blessed they are, but for rather trivial or material things - like #cracklingfireplace #myhouseissocozy #blessedbeyondmeasure. Or #lovemyhubby #Godisgood. It just strikes me as boastful rather than grateful and humble. Am I just being a crotchety old curmudgeon?

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I always thought the pink bedroom was about growing up with 18 siblings and having tight finances and never getting what you personally wanted because you had to compromise with so many others. Chad "let" her have the pink bedroom -- i.e. he didn't fight about it -- she got what she wanted, she probably realized she had had enough of the baby girl pink and got it out of her system in a year and now they're moving towards a more normal look. Worked out for the best for them without Chad pulling the "I'm the headship, I won't sleep in a room like this," and instead just saying -- it matters more to her than to me, so whatever.

 

I totally agree... I also think that knowing now about how she likes to redecorate, it wouldn't surprise me if Chad suggested it, knowing that she'd always wanted a pink room, but that he wouldn't have to see it for very long.

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I looked through Erin's Instagram photos and I will agree that Chad's notes were sweet. But am I the only one that gets bugged by all the hashtag run-on sentences that she uses (and other people do it too)? I know it's trendy, or whatever, but why put another 2 or 3 thoughts in a hashtag? Why not just add them as regular sentences to the comments? All the cutesy hashtags somehow come across as bragging or smugness, IMO. I also notice fundies often talk about how blessed they are, but for rather trivial or material things - like #cracklingfireplace #myhouseissocozy #blessedbeyondmeasure. Or #lovemyhubby #Godisgood. It just strikes me as boastful rather than grateful and humble. Am I just being a crotchety old curmudgeon?

I think that's just the way some people do hashtags. For many (most?) they may be bragging, but from reading Chad's blog and looking at their IG and knowing their backstory, I really think they are both trying to remind themselves of the blessings they already have -- a loving spouse; a nice home; a good job that Chad likes; etc. It may be small stuff not worth mentioning or "bragging" about, but it strikes me as that religious think that is true in lots of faith including Christianity -- when you are thankful for the blessings you already have, instead of just looking at what you don't have -- God blesses you with more. So for them it may be -- we don't have a baby yet, but look at everything God has done for us in the last year. Now does all of this need to be on social media -- well I think that's just a sign of the times for many people in this age group where they do share private thoughts that people didn't share a decade or two ago.

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I cringe thinking about trying to fit 2 people into that bed.  Double beds aren't very big.  Are they smaller/bigger/same size as a full size bed? 

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I just watched the episode again. The doctor specified PAI as well as saying "plasminogen activator inhibitor." eta: Here's what Mr. Wikipedia has to say (the other articles I found were for the medical community and contained far too much jargon): 

 

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Plasminogen_activator_inhibitor-1

Here's an article about PAI deficiency - http://www.orpha.net/consor/cgi-bin//OC_Exp.php?lng=EN&Expert=465

 

Here's what I don't understand - you would presume this would be obvious in someone long before they had children.  It would have a similar appearance to conditions like hemophilia, Factor V Leiden mutation, vWF factor deficiency, and a lot of other bleeding disorders where you have a problem with clotting - so it would show up as easy bruising, heavy menstrual bleeding, prolonged bleeding time with minor cuts, prolonged bleeding during dental procedures (wisdom tooth extraction), etc.    

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Here's an article about PAI deficiency - http://www.orpha.net/consor/cgi-bin//OC_Exp.php?lng=EN&Expert=465

 

Here's what I don't understand - you would presume this would be obvious in someone long before they had children.  It would have a similar appearance to conditions like hemophilia, Factor V Leiden mutation, vWF factor deficiency, and a lot of other bleeding disorders where you have a problem with clotting - so it would show up as easy bruising, heavy menstrual bleeding, prolonged bleeding time with minor cuts, prolonged bleeding during dental procedures (wisdom tooth extraction), etc.

Exactly what I was thinking. That's why I think it's more likely to be some other AAS syndrome. AAS almost always is triggered by pregnancy. Most people don't have issues until they get pregnant and they miscarry. The PAI is something you would think would have come up before. Of course, we know the Bates kids haven't had the same access to healthcare as the Duggars. Maybe there was never a time when Erin needed a high level of care until now.

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#ImgladForThisBlog  #Idon'tGetUPasItIsn'tOnMyPayCannels.

Lol! This made me laugh for a while. People do this ^ on Facebook and it makes me irrationally angry.

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#ImgladForThisBlog  #Idon'tGetUPasItIsn'tOnMyPayCannels.

 

#improperuseofhashtags :) (I do that to Mr. DVD when he uses one improperly which is mercifully rare. I mourn the death of what hashtags were originally supposed to be)

 

I think the #blessed is just a push from the general conservative Christian populace to be grateful for what they have and remember that, or something. It kinda makes me want to barf also.

 

Regarding the double bed, Chad and Erin are both not particularly wide people, so I think they could sleep in a full/double comfortably.

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Regarding the double bed, Chad and Erin are both not particularly wide people, so I think they could sleep in a full/double comfortably.

 

If/when Erin has a successful pregnancy, that might become an issue...

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I think they'd be thrilled to have the problem of needing a bigger bed to accommodate Erin. Chad's a pretty handy guy -- build a whole deck behind the house -- so I'm guessing it would be no problem to put together a queen size bed frame and then they'd hit 1800 Mattress or whatever is in the next big town to get a mattress for it. How rural are they -- does anyone know? Is it like 30 min from  small town/city or 30 min from a place like Knoxville or Nashville? Can't really tell as it looks really rural -- esp when they were showing where trace had the car crash.

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I am very happy for them, but what drives me crazy is the hypocrisy.  We're going to have has many children as god gives us with no planning or medical stoppage; oh wait, I keep having miscarriages, time to go to the doctor and see if science can fix the problem. 

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I hate to say "I thought so", but the twice daily shots of heparin to maintain placental flow and stop an autoimmune clotting issue points to AAS. The good news is that, now that they've figured this out, her odds at a safe delivery are pretty good. I'm happy for them.

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I really like them and am really happy for them, but am I the only one who feels like this has been a little over the top? People on this site are saying that she must be 15-16 weeks and Chad's blog says they waited longer than normal to tell because they're high risk -- so I think she's probably into month 3 or 4. Just FOUR episodes ago, they were both on SO teary about how "this hasn't been easy" and they're heartbroken at not being able to be parents and looking generally miserable at Z+W's baby shower -- particularly Chad. I get it -- I'm sure the losses hurt A LOT. BUT before that episode was to air -- just one month ago -- they knew they were pregnant. Couldn't they have gone to TLC and said "we need to tone down our interviews a bit, yes we were sad but not THAT sad and hopeless and things have worked out now." IIRC Zach had a Christmas time wedding and they were 1-2 months before that. That means if they married in Oct 2013 and right now she's 3 months along -- she was pregnant around Oct 2014. Is it THAT big of a deal that it took a WHOLE year to conceive?? People face these kinds of challenges and it isn't pleasant, but they act like they're 45 and if they don't have a baby ASAP they may never have a family. To act like it was SO traumatic for them and then to announce a month later -- yeah it's all worked out -- seems like a slap to women (including fundies) who may be watching and not be able to conceive at all or have it take 3 yrs or 5 yrs or whatever. Knowing a pregnancy announcement was coming -- they could have just changed episode 1 to take the tone of -- yeah it's been hard but we've decided to relax and enjoy behind newlyweds and when it happens, it happens -- oh look, it happened.

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Couldn't they have gone to TLC and said....

 

It's not a TLC show and even if it were, no they couldn't. Production decides what is shown/said etc for all talking heads.

 

ETA: I also think for them it is a big deal. Partially due to their religion and partially due to age. Plus, I think a miscarriage is hard on anyone, let alone 3.

Edited by KarmaG
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I hope they're 15-16 weeks along. Waiting "longer than normal" to announce could mean anything- seems like a lot of their friends and family announce as soon as they find out, which would only be around 4 weeks. I would hope they wouldn't announce to the world until they were past the 12 week mark.

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Family life is so important to this extended family.  It has been expressed more than once that children are very important to them  Erin's desire to become a mother is part of her DNA and she should be commended for it.  Having three miscarriages in a row had to shake the couple to the core.  Thinking about her mother having one child after another, Erin must have thought she would be able to do the same.

 

If there is any criticism to be doled  out, it should be TLC for they way they edit.  Perhaps  it is TLC that used a serious situation to their advantage. They create the story lines with their interviews and filming.

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People have also mentioned that these episodes seem to be air horribly out of sequence so who knows how much time it was between the one baby shower and those TH's to these current ones. 

 

Or maybe they were told to play up their sadness.  Who knows.

 

It does seem like a very dramatic TH turnaround but only the people at UP know how these were edited. 

Edited by gunderda
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