S05.E10: Growing Up and Moving Out

[Higgins]

I thought Maddie was just going away to college like Mariah and Logan did. I didn't see any indication that she was told to run by Janelle or that she was choosing to go to college to escape Meri or the other wives. Of course she said she wouldn't move back home, I said that when I went to college. Most kids don't move back home unless they can't find a job or have some financial difficulties. I think it is good that she is embracing her independence, but to me she seemed like every other kid going away to school.

That's not what I meant. I get the feeling from the attitude all three of her oldest. They seem over it. They aren't drinking the koolaid and I suspect that comes from their mother telling them that she was wrong. I don't think Janelle buys these beliefs anymore.

[Castina]

I think it's not so simple to say Janelle should get over something that happened 20 years ago because it is probably still ongoing. We will probably never know the full extent of the issues between the two women and how Kody dealt with them and probably added to them. He is pretty immature today so I can only Imagine how much worse he might have been in the beginning. His own friends have said they thought he chose the lifestyle because he liked to be the centre of attention.

I recall an episode where Meri apologizes but I think it's hard to maybe accept and really believe if you still see signs of the same behaviour. Cuddling with Cody on a couch watching tv while Janelle sits in her own is what they allow themselves to share with us BUT it seems to me one if their main agendas is to present themselves as a loving functioning polygamist family. And in most ways they are. But we see through the facade and see the strain and the cracks and the insecurities and the jealousy. So we know in the beginning Meri marked her territory in regards to the three of them. We know there were major issues in the kitchen. The make light of it by talking about how people like to load the dishwasher their own way but I don't think it's unreasonable to read between the lines and guess that Meri was likely abusive in her treatment of Janelle. Janelle was probably made to feel a second class citizen in that household and I hunk things were uglier then they will ever publicly acknowledge.

We could write it off us jealousy BUT Meri also chose the lifestyle. I've seen documentaries about polygamy where children have said that the first wife and her children often put themselves on a higher level and can be mean to the others. In these documentaries they see typically the type who lived in compounds but I think the jealousies and resentments that fuel the "firsts" in those strict polygamist communities also fuel the Browns and the other TLC show. If Meri was resentful and cruel to Janelle then how did she treat the children? I think it must be hard to love the children of a woman you don't get along with. Does this possibility play into the fact that Janelle's three oldest children seem the least enamoured with this life.

I think Meri still comes across as entitled and demanding. Tantrums over wet bars and colleges and cars for Mariah and equal share of the budget MUST make it really difficult for Janelle to get over it because how much does an apology mean if the behaviour remains the same?

Having said all that (sorry for the novel. I've been reading for awhile and finally signed up ) I think the fact that this is a storyline is for production. They seem to take criticism they read online and turn it into a storyline so they can control the narrative. I expect this to be an issue all season and in the end Meri and Janelle will head off on a retreat with tears and laughter.

[Palomar]

 

Kody is probably correct that they go long stretches with little interaction between them. When they're not filming, they probably go a whole week without seeing each other. Christine said at one point that her kids go 6 days or more without seeing Kody

 

But, how could this be with the "rotation" of moving to a different wife every night?  Theoretically, each wife would be having Kody spend the night in "her" house every 4th day. Or, does "wife de jour" get more than one night if that is Kody's preference.  True, not really our business, but this is the kind of stuff that you wonder about, especially as far as jealousy and relationships between the wifes go.  On My Five Wives they are pretty open about their "rotation".  Really, this would be a much more interesting topic than whing about My Sister Wives Closet!

[Madding crowd]

I think Janelle may be the most religious of all of them, and I haven't seen any indication she no longer believes in their religion or practices. If she no longer believes in polygamy, maybe she would understand that Kody is legally married to Meri and that her addition to the family caused natural jealousies and insecurities.

If Janelle has had conversations with her kids in which she tells them she no longer believes, it has not been shown on the show. It would be speculation until we hear her say it. I do think all of the Browns are supportive of their children having their own identities, but that is not unique to Janelle.

[ghoulina]

I can easily guess what Kody is doing to not see his kids for a week at a time, but it's really unexcusable.  They live either next door or across the street from each other.  Even if he wants to avoid the wife, he should see the kids daily.  He doesn't have much else to do.

 

It really is ridiculous. It sounded like they were basically saying that when there's not a party going on, it could be days, or weeks, before they all see each other. Then what in the actual fuck was the point of buying those God-awful McMansions all in the same cul-de-sac??? At least with the Williamses they have family dinner together nightly and you can tell the moms and kids interact daily. That's a family. Kody is just some dude who knocked up the whole neighborhood. 

[Absolom]

It would be quite easy to see ongoing problems with Meri getting the same share of earnings and only having to cover one child when someone else has six to feed and clothe.

[ghoulina]

But, how could this be with the "rotation" of moving to a different wife every night?  Theoretically, each wife would be having Kody spend the night in "her" house every 4th day. Or, does "wife de jour" get more than one night if that is Kody's preference.  True, not really our business, but this is the kind of stuff that you wonder about, especially as far as jealousy and relationships between the wifes go.  On My Five Wives they are pretty open about their "rotation".  Really, this would be a much more interesting topic than whing about My Sister Wives Closet!

 

See, and the fact that they DON'T talk about it just leads me to speculate that there IS no rotation. Kody just goes wherever he feels like that night - which, my guess would be, mostly Meri with some Robyn thrown in. I think the shine is wearing off with Robyn. She's no longer the peppy validator she was in the beginning. She's constantly bitching and moaning about MSWC and having another baby. There are 4 kids in the house - one who has special needs, one who is a toddler and just needy, and the one who is a drama queen with all of her emotional needs (Robyn's clone, basically). I bet Kody likes to just go chill out in Meri's empty house. 

Edited January 7, 2015 by ghoulina

[Higgins]

I think Janelle may be the most religious of all of them, and I haven't seen any indication she no longer believes in their religion or practices. If she no longer believes in polygamy, maybe she would understand that Kody is legally married to Meri and that her addition to the family caused natural jealousies and insecurities.

If Janelle has had conversations with her kids in which she tells them she no longer believes, it has not been shown on the show. It would be speculation until we hear her say it. I do think all of the Browns are supportive of their children having their own identities, but that is not unique to Janelle.

Yes, it is speculation. Just like most of what is here.

[Adeejay]

See, and the fact that they DON'T talk about it just leads me to speculate that there IS no rotation.

 

I remember Christine telling Kody that she would “allow” him to use half the space in her garage for a gym, if he’d agree to spend more time with her.  I don’t believe she would have had to resort to that, if like the Williams, they had a rotation schedule.  I am willing to bet that Kody sleeps wherever he wants.  When they first moved to Vegas, they all lived on different blocks.  Janelle was the only one who didn’t have a problem with that arrangement.  The others claimed that the kids wanted to be closer to each other.  In reality, I believe the other wives just wanted to keep tabs on Kody’s comings and goings.

[VioletNevermind]

I'm amazed as I'm reading this and I think there's some validity to the notion of Kody deciding largely on the fly where he'd like to spend his time.  I just assumed that the Brown families had a rotation like the Williams clan.  That would certainly be more fair than allowing Kody to pick and choose night by night.  The rampant favoritism would explain why they have such interpersonal drama.  What an unapologetic ass he is.  Next week's episode should be interesting.  (Kody: "And now I'm pissed!")

[purpleflowers]

I think it's not so simple to say Janelle should get over something that happened 20 years ago because it is probably still ongoing. We will probably never know the full extent of the issues between the two women and how Kody dealt with them and probably added to them. He is pretty immature today so I can only Imagine how much worse he might have been in the beginning. 

 

Janelle did say in the book that Kody would take Meri along on his business trips and not her, and that Meri ridiculed her for makeup she was wearing one day. There was probably much more that went on that we don't know about. It seems to me that Janelle was quiet for a long time about the resentment she had towards Meri and has started to be more vocal about it since she gained some confidence when she started shedding weight. She does seem more outspoken nowadays, even in this episode. But yes, I agree that at the end of the day, there is some manufactured drama for desperately needed storylines for the show. 

[AndreaF]

I'm sorry, but I just don't buy that Meri was this big villain.  The ink was barely dry on her marriage license and her brother's WIFE was trolling her marriage and horning in on her brand new husband, allegedly having secret meetings and offering up her ample uterus as her godly dowry.  Did Kody think about Meri at all in this situation?  Nope.  He was super excited to have sex with his own step-sister/sister-in-law!  (What happened to the "ick factor" back then?)

 

As far as jealousy goes, I think that the women were probably both oozing with jealousy.  Meri for obvious reasons, but Janelle... Well, if it's true that the 1st Wife spot is so revered, so desired, then what would the second "wife" want more than anything?  My guess is: to be 1st wife!  After all, she's sooo close! 

 

And how would the second woman become the 1st woman?  By getting rid of the legal wife, in any way that it took.  Maybe even by being difficult, lying, manipulating, scheming, using ANY and EVERY means possible to get Wife 1 to leave so that #2 could slither right into that that coveted legal spot. 

 

To make matters worse, Meri had pretty serious infertility issues.  What could be more horrible than to not be able to provide the most children to Kody?  Especially while Janelle was popping babies out like Tic-Tacs.  I think that Meri probably had her issues rubbed into her face quite a bit.  But I also think that Meri was Kody's first love, so I think that the deal was his other women would have the children, but she would still be 1ST wife, and she would get treated (at least) equally.  That means money-wise, too.  I think he had Meri convinced that he loved her and barely tolerated the others, but that he needed them for procreation purposes.

 

When the third woman came along, she was not only Plyg Royalty, she was probably also smart enough to take stock of the situation, see the strife between 1st and 2nd, and easily try to maneuver into the favorite spot.  Then... BAM!  Hello, Robyn. 

 

I mean, most of us have read how the AUB or FLDS wives treat each other.  The Brown women were still those AUB/FLDS wives, at least back then they were -- only now they're on tv!  Of course they're going to tone it down and not tell the whole story.  My opinion is that they were trying desperately to cherry-pick the best of themselves and their relationships, leaving Robyn to take the brunt of being the cause of all the drama for the show.

 

They underestimated their viewers, though.  I've learned more about their cult over the last 5 years than I ever thought was possible, and I've only touched the tip of that particularly creepy iceberg!  I think that their main goal now is to make their lifestyle a normal and accepted fact of life, and I think that the AUB/FLDS agreed to this happening, especially after all of their scandals and crimes, but that's a whole 'nother subject!

 

Anyway, that's why I dislike Meri the least of the women.  I think that if she could have had more children, she would have, but that she shouldn't be treated as less because she was physically unable to do so.  It just seems like a wet bar is a small consolation to have in comparison to what she actually wanted. 

 

But believe me... I also completely understand why other people can't stand her!  Hahaha!  :)

Janelle did say in the book that Kody would take Meri along on his business trips and not her, and that Meri ridiculed her for makeup she was wearing one day. There was probably much more that went on that we don't know about. It seems to me that Janelle was quiet for a long time about the resentment she had towards Meri and has started to be more vocal about it since she gained some confidence when she started shedding weight. She does seem more outspoken nowadays, even in this episode. But yes, I agree that at the end of the day, there is some manufactured drama for desperately needed storylines for the show. 

Oh, man... You posted this while I was typing!  Mine wasn't related to this post, though the subject matter is the same!  lol! 

[Taylorh2]

I don't understand why one great big house wasn't built ? Zoning ?

[shoovenbooty]

I was so distracted by Robyn's eyelashes going back and forth from being short, to spindly spider legs, and back to short in the next shot.  I had to keep rewinding to listen to what they were saying about Dayton's surgery (I did notice his eye looked different last season, and I chalked it up to being something adverse related to aspergers, which I admit to knowing little about). They must have dressed Kody and Robyn in the same clothes and got some more shots of their TH, since her eyelashes were literally different every other shot.  The spider legs were not a good look.

 

Christine has lost quite a bit of weight!  I dare say she's smaller than Meri now, who has gained a lot since the first season of the show.  And Janelle's weight loss is a non-story.  She needs to realize that exercising daily won't change much if she's still eating too many calories.

[purpleflowers]

Even if it were allowed, I highly doubt these ladies would want to live under the same roof again. 

[SometimesBites]

Janelle is smart, but she's also a martyr

Yep. Being a martyr is Article I in the Sisterwife Bylaws. Showcasing your victim status is essential to this lifestyle, to keep reminding your bed-hopping husband that you're making a sacrifice for him and for The Faith.

[Taylorh2]

Do they really own those houses or does TLC ? I'm assuming the houses will be  'sold' once they move back to Utah ?

 

I'm just assuming they will move back since the heat is off.

[camom]

I think a mortgage company owns the houses, and once the TLC money dries up, then they'll be moving back to Utah because of the foreclosures.

[Absolom]

The builder worked out some creative financing for them.  They're doing something like paying interest only.

 

ETA:  Ratings are in.  1.679 M viewers and a .7 rating.

Edited January 8, 2015 by Absolom

[Marigold]

That is a good point.

We have never seen a schedule or heard reference to a schedule, have we?

So, without a fair division of time, that would certainly cause a lot of jealousy and hatred between the wives.

[MonicaM]

 

I was so distracted by Robyn's eyelashes going back and forth from being short, to spindly spider legs, and back to short in the next shot.

 

I wondered if anyone else was driven crazy by this!!!  

 

Don't get me wrong, this family doesn't need any more children.  However, I don't get why Robin's excessively busy, heavy workload precludes another pregnancy?  (Not that i actually buy that she works even forty hours a week.)   Plenty of us have had children while working 10 to 12 hours a day five or six days a week.  Oh, that's right, Robyn is SPECIAL.  

[spidermiss2426]

I wondered if anyone else was driven crazy by this!!!  

 

Don't get me wrong, this family doesn't need any more children.  However, I don't get why Robin's excessively busy, heavy workload precludes another pregnancy?  (Not that i actually buy that she works even forty hours a week.)   Plenty of us have had children while working 10 to 12 hours a day five or six days a week.  Oh, that's right, Robyn is SPECIAL.  

 

Not to mention, couldn't she and Meri divide up the time?  I know Meri is in school, but when Meri isn't in school or doing homework, isn't she supposed to be helping out with the kids?  Aren't they considered her kids too?  Not to mention, Kody said Christine is working on My Sister Wife's Closet more these days. So.... if that is true, it isn't falling all on Robyn.  Plus, Solomon and Truely seem to be quite the pair.  Christine and Robyn could trade off watching Solomon, and then the only really young one Robyn would have to worry about is the baby.

[Snarklepuss]

See, and the fact that they DON'T talk about it just leads me to speculate that there IS no rotation. Kody just goes wherever he feels like that night - which, my guess would be, mostly Meri with some Robyn thrown in. I think the shine is wearing off with Robyn.

 

The only time they alluded to any kind of rotation was when they first moved to Las Vegas and were living in the rental houses and Kody was talking about how he ran every night to a different house.  They showed him with his little overnight bag running from house to house like an idiot.  But other than that they have not been specific about how his time is divided.  I don't necessarily think this means there is no rotation at all or that he goes wherever he wants, just that their rotation might allow for a night off for Kody where he might spend one evening per week basically alone.  In addition, at times there might be an extra night (or nights) when Kody is off on business or going out with guy friends like they showed on one episode and staying over with them.  He might spend his "alone" night at Meri's house because after all, there are a lot of empty rooms, and no one has ever explained just exactly how they use all of them or adequately justified why Meri should have that big house all by herself.  He just may not spend that night off with Meri specifically, but vegging out or with his nose in some kind of project or another.  It sounds weird but what about their entire arrangement is any less weird than that?

[Snarklepuss]

I'm sorry, but I just don't buy that Meri was this big villain.  The ink was barely dry on her marriage license and her brother's WIFE was trolling her marriage and horning in on her brand new husband, allegedly having secret meetings and offering up her ample uterus as her godly dowry.  Did Kody think about Meri at all in this situation?  Nope.  He was super excited to have sex with his own step-sister/sister-in-law!  (What happened to the "ick factor" back then?)

 

Not that I don't agree that Janelle went trolling for Kody, but wasn't it Meri that pushed for polygamy with him in the first place?  That's what I remember reading and hearing on the show.  So technically, she asked for it and it wasn't like Janelle engineered the whole idea herself.  I thought Janelle knew at that point that they were open to adding another sister wife to their marriage and she was just throwing her hat in the ring very outwardly.  And by responding to it, Kody was doing what Meri wanted him to do.  So I don't see Janelle as a big villain either.  What I do see as villainous is Meri asking for a polygamous relationship and then acting like a complete bitch all territorial and making Janelle feel like the odd person out and second class citizen.  Obviously she wasn't willing to walk the walk and let her jealousy take control.  That I will never be able to forgive her for until I hear out of her mouth that she is genuinely sorry for it.  As much as I get down on the Williams women, at least Pauli has publicly said that she never meant to make Rosemary feel bad.  Even if she's being less than sincere, she has taken responsibility for it to some degree.  Where Meri is concerned I don't remember ever hearing her adequately acknowledge or validate Janelle's feelings about what happened when they were younger, and I doubt that she has opened up to Janelle about it either.  Because of that I don't blame Janelle for in some sense never getting over it and don't think she is grinding any old axes that should be buried.

[3girlsforus]

I thought I remember Meri saying she agreed to polygamy because she knew it was the only way she could get and keep Kody. So while she might have pushed it, it doesn't sound to me like she wanted it. Of course that's not Janelle's fault. She only knew they were planning to be a polygamist couple. So Meri is still on the hook for asking for polygamy and then being all bitchy when she got it. I think she still considers herself superior because she's the real wife. The problem with that in polygamy the way the Browns present it, they are all real wives so Meri shouldn't get an 'I'm special' sticker. Even though there are two other wives, Meri probably blames Janelle the most for Kody following through on being a polygamist since she was the first 'extra' wife. Unless that attitude changes there will probably continue to be stress and conflict between them. 

 

I'm not sure I can even wrap my head around the idea that Meri, or anyone, agreed to polygamy just to get Kody..... had she never met any other guys???

[DakotaJustice]

I thought I remember Meri saying she agreed to polygamy because she knew it was the only way she could get and keep Kody. So while she might have pushed it, it doesn't sound to me like she wanted it. Of course that's not Janelle's fault. She only knew they were planning to be a polygamist couple. So Meri is still on the hook for asking for polygamy and then being all bitchy when she got it. I think she still considers herself superior because she's the real wife. The problem with that in polygamy the way the Browns present it, they are all real wives so Meri shouldn't get an 'I'm special' sticker. Even though there are two other wives, Meri probably blames Janelle the most for Kody following through on being a polygamist since she was the first 'extra' wife. Unless that attitude changes there will probably continue to be stress and conflict between them. 

 

I'm not sure I can even wrap my head around the idea that Meri, or anyone, agreed to polygamy just to get Kody..... had she never met any other guys???

According to the book, Meri never dated or had a boyfriend or even a guy interested in her until Kody.

[Katjoy26]

I'm guessing Maddie has a job doing landscaping/maintenance on campus, before the deluge of students arrive at the end of the summer. My cousin had a job like this at her university, and it was NOT easy work.

She could be doing that. Or she could be a receptionist answering the phone in the math department or whatever. There are many different types of campus jobs even in the summer. They really didn't give any hint what kind of job she was doing.

Edited January 8, 2015 by Katjoy26

[3girlsforus]

According to the book, Meri never dated or had a boyfriend or even a guy interested in her until Kody.

 

As much as I dislike Meri, it's really sad to think that her self-esteem was so low that she'd agree to share her husband just to have a guy. That's the crux of the problem with polygamy. It requires women to either have no self-esteem and allows the man to be an egomaniac 

 

She could be doing that. Or she could be a receptionist answering the phone in the math deparent or whatever. There are many campus different types of campus jobs even in the summer. They really didn't give any hint what the job was she was doing.

 

Resident Assistants often are there for the summer as well. There are lots of possibilities. It's also possible she started school in the summer. I think the key part to the story is that whatever she decided to do, she did it to get out and get out fast. Most kids her age are eager to head off to independence but she seemed more vocal than most about really wanting to get out.

[AndreaF]

I know that Meri did agree to polygamy in order to keep Kody happy, but wasn't she blindsided by Janelle approaching Kody, their secret lunches planning the giant "new addition" to the fledgling family, and how quickly it all happened?  It seems like the lunches alone showed that Janelle was willing to begin the relationship in a sneaky way. 

 

That's not even addressing the weird angle of Janelle's marriage to Meri's brother.  If my sister-in-law approached my husband for a relationship, I'd be blindsided and QUITE angry.   

 

As I said, I don't hold Meri blameless.  There's an old saying, "be careful what you ask for", and she's a prime example of that -- she chose to stay and that's all on her.  I just don't think that she's a villain for saying that Janelle's makeup looked like crap (it still does, imo), or for Meri snuggling with her still-new husband in front of Janelle because Janelle also got what she wanted (be careful what you ask for!).  I think that Kody had a lot to do with Janelle feeling left out and with her bad relationship with Meri, because it seems to me that he had Meri convinced that Janelle was there for business/baby reasons and not love. 

 

Now that I think about it, I'm not sure that any of these people really understand the concept of thinking something through before they say or do things.  Especially when it comes to major life decisions!

Edited January 8, 2015 by AndreaF

[VioletNevermind]

Forgive me if someone has already said this, but I recall from one of the early episodes that Kody very plainly said that his relationship with Janelle was and is largely platonic.  That leads me to believe that her only role in the family was to work and pump out babies, both of which she did until the reality show train rolled into town.  Another slap in the face for Meri, who has fertility issues.  Not that I'm supporting Meri at all, but I think that explains a lot.  I'm sure Kody's ham-fisted handling of the situation didn't help at all.  If anything, he probably enjoyed watching the two women duke it out, in competition for his love and affection.  (I. Hate. Kody.)

[ghoulina]

I'm not sure I can even wrap my head around the idea that Meri, or anyone, agreed to polygamy just to get Kody..... had she never met any other guys???

 

The thing is, I'm sure their communities are very small, and there aren't a lot of options. Especially if you want to be first wife. Kody looks ridiculous now, but (God forgive me for saying this) I think he was pretty decent looking back in the day. It's mostly his crazy hair and werewolf facial scruff that harms his appearance now, IMO. When you see the older pics where he has a regular, short hairstyle - he doesn't look bad. And there is A LOT that drives me crazy about Kody, and I'm not saying he's a great husband or father, but again - looking at what she had to work with, I don't think he was that bad. There are a lot of men in these communities who are much more misogynistic and even downright abusive. I definitely think Kody shows favoritism and has really hurt some of the wives over the years, but there's a lot worse behavior that goes on in other plyg homes. So I think for Meri, wanting to enter into a plural marriage, picked an alright dude. 

[CentralTexas]

When Princess Mariah was leaving for college, Meri said that she would never send her to Utah without a car.  Unless I am mistaken, Maddie wasn’t accorded the same consideration.

YES!!!! Thank you for that reminder.

Poor Maddie is going to be fending off rapists at ever turn, every single day according to her Douche, way to make your kid paranoid before leaving her alone for the first time.

I hope they also discussed other topics with her, you know like grades, enjoying the experience, less morbid crap, geez!

I love how she could not wait to get them the hell out of her place, she's heard all of our "Run Janelle" cries, too bad her mother hasn't.

What does Meri need to apologize for ?

Her tighter than tight jeans, her hair, her shitty attitude, wet bar-gate, the dress she wore to the re-commitment ceremony...oh wait, did you mean to Janelle? ;)

[DakotaJustice]

The thing is, I'm sure their communities are very small, and there aren't a lot of options. Especially if you want to be first wife. Kody looks ridiculous now, but (God forgive me for saying this) I think he was pretty decent looking back in the day. It's mostly his crazy hair and werewolf facial scruff that harms his appearance now, IMO. When you see the older pics where he has a regular, short hairstyle - he doesn't look bad. And there is A LOT that drives me crazy about Kody, and I'm not saying he's a great husband or father, but again - looking at what she had to work with, I don't think he was that bad. There are a lot of men in these communities who are much more misogynistic and even downright abusive. I definitely think Kody shows favoritism and has really hurt some of the wives over the years, but there's a lot worse behavior that goes on in other plyg homes. So I think for Meri, wanting to enter into a plural marriage, picked an alright dude. 

 

His old photos kind of remind me of a male cheerleader, and I have to say I still laugh at the white tux he chose to wear on their wedding day. HA!

[Adeejay]

The thing is, I'm sure their communities are very small, and there aren't a lot of options. Especially if you want to be first wife. Kody looks ridiculous now, but (God forgive me for saying this) I think he was pretty decent looking back in the day.

 

I agree.  Kody was quite the catch.  I believe Janelle set her sights on him when she was married to Meri’s brother.  And Christine admitted that she rebuffed every suitor who approached her father because Kody was the one she wanted.  To this day, I don’t believe Meri has ever forgiven them.

[Galloway Cave]

Prior to marrying Kody, Janelle was LDS and a monogamist. She had no idea what a plyg marriage was all about. She just wanted to be married to Kody. Kody and Meri and their families were practicing AUB members, who are not the salt-of-the-Earth plygs like they want us to believe (stroll on over to The Principle blog for the real scoop on these people). I'm sure she was stunned to be in a real polygamous marriage and subjected to the reality of that kind of a marriage. Kody and Meri probably didn't think it was all that bad, since that was a norm for them (I know Kody's immediate family had only recently converted back to polygamy but his grandparents and extended family were/are all polygamous). It sounds like the Brown marriages were more like normal polygamous marriages until TLC came knocking and they decided the storyline of equal, closely bonded marriages was the way to sell the family. Make them seem normal for America. But that isn't what polygamous marriages are about, and after five seasons we are seeing the wives getting tired of putting on the act. Janelle is the one verbalizing the problems of polygamous marriage the most.

[3girlsforus]

I guess you guys are right that Kody was the prize in their circle. That's even more depressing. For me it's not really about how he looks, although he's not my type at all. His ego is just so revolting. There is no way he wasn't like that 20 years ago. I guess the reality is that pretty much all men in polygamy are probably egomaniacs. You'd pretty much have to be to think you deserve multiple women committing only to you while you spread your seed around. So I guess obnoxious egomaniac is better than violent egomaniac. 

 

That said, while I don't think Kody is violent, I do think he's got a mean streak. We've seen small glimpses of it. He's more than just an obnoxious guy who acts like a teenager. He is manipulative and pushes buttons to hurt and control. 

[spidermiss2426]

This song wraps up what the adults in this family do to each other.  Replace all the internet references with Polygamy references, and you have it perfectly:

 

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=oRI5nrWtWv8

Edited January 8, 2015 by spidermiss2426

[technorebel]

I think the women who choose this lifestyle have an idealized version of polygamy in their heads.  They think they're going to have some kind of enlightened and deep relationship with their sisterwives and aren't prepared for the natural feelings of jealousy and such that always rear up.  If they grew up in a polygamous household, their father's wives must have succeeded at hiding the ugly parts of the Principle.  It's too bad no one ever told them the truth because they might've made different choices.

 

I don't think Kody and Janelle were creeping around.  I think Meri was actually in favor of marrying Janelle since they got along so well as sisters-in-law.  She just didn't realize how those feelings would change once Janelle was sleeping with Kody.  And all of them in a small trailer as well. 

Edited January 8, 2015 by technorebel

[VioletNevermind]

This song wraps up what the adults in this family do to each other.  Replace all the internet references with Polygamy references, and you have it perfectly:

 

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=oRI5nrWtWv8

 

HA!  You could plug this song into any number of situations and interactions.  "My Five Wives" is also absolutely RIFE with butthurt.

[kelm]

Reading different POV's about meri & janelle has been really interesting!

[Galloway Cave]

 

I think the women who choose this lifestyle have an idealized version of polygamy in their heads.  They think they're going to have some kind of enlightened and deep relationship with their sisterwives and aren't prepared for the natural feelings of jealousy and such that always rear up.  If they grew up in a polygamous household, their father's wives must have succeeded at hiding the ugly parts of the Principle.  It's too bad no one ever told them the truth because they might've made different choices.

If a non-polygamous woman is choosing this lifestyle, they might have an idea that sister wives are like the ones on TV and are unprepared. But for the majority of women that grew up in the FLDS and other polygamous sects, they know exactly what they are getting into. The reality is polygamous marriages are single women raising the children, with little interaction with the other wives and sporadic visits from the husband. Wives may live in the same house (if it is one of those large compound homes) but on different floors. More often they are in separate houses. The amount of control and abuse is well documented.

 

And a lot of them don't have a choice. They are married off by their fathers or church leaders whether they want it or not. Or they make bad marriages to avoid even worse ones to older men. It is really only in the last few years that women in these sects are getting a chance to leave/escape with the help of anti-plyg groups or those that have already left. The amount of negative media has also helped move to improve the over-all community situation in places like Short Creek. If anything, I think shows like Sister Wives and M5W do a disservice to the individuals who are still suffering in the polygamous communities.

[DakotaJustice]

Prior to marrying Kody, Janelle was LDS and a monogamist. She had no idea what a plyg marriage was all about. She just wanted to be married to Kody. Kody and Meri and their families were practicing AUB members, who are not the salt-of-the-Earth plygs like they want us to believe (stroll on over to The Principle blog for the real scoop on these people).

Link to the blog please?  I'm not finding it :(

[ghoulina]

Prior to marrying Kody, Janelle was LDS and a monogamist. She had no idea what a plyg marriage was all about. She just wanted to be married to Kody. Kody and Meri and their families were practicing AUB members, who are not the salt-of-the-Earth plygs like they want us to believe

 

I thought Kody was raised by monogamist Mormons as well. I thought he decided to go for plural marriage all on his own as an adult. Didn't his father choose it late in life as well? Someone correct me if I'm misremembering, but I thought the only ones raised in the lifestyle were Meri, Christine, and Robyn. 

[Galloway Cave]

His parents switched to polygamy when he was 19 but his family on both sides go back many generation in polygamy. Both sets of his grandparents practiced polygamy, so not sure why his parents started out as monogamists (his grandmother on his mother's side I think is an Allred).

 

The Principle: http://politicsrusprinciple.tumblr.com/

Edited January 8, 2015 by Galloway Cave

[technorebel]

If a non-polygamous woman is choosing this lifestyle, they might have an idea that sister wives are like the ones on TV and are unprepared. But for the majority of women that grew up in the FLDS and other polygamous sects, they know exactly what they are getting into. The reality is polygamous marriages are single women raising the children, with little interaction with the other wives and sporadic visits from the husband. Wives may live in the same house (if it is one of those large compound homes) but on different floors. More often they are in separate houses. The amount of control and abuse is well documented.

 

And a lot of them don't have a choice. They are married off by their fathers or church leaders whether they want it or not. Or they make bad marriages to avoid even worse ones to older men. It is really only in the last few years that women in these sects are getting a chance to leave/escape with the help of anti-plyg groups or those that have already left. The amount of negative media has also helped move to improve the over-all community situation in places like Short Creek. If anything, I think shows like Sister Wives and M5W do a disservice to the individuals who are still suffering in the polygamous communities.

 

Everything you say is true.  I just don't know how they (as young women) can see the reality of polygamy when they can only filter their perceptions through their religious beliefs.  Their own Doctrine & Covenants tells them that they will be destroyed if they don't embrace polygamy. They believe that God himself lives this lifestyle, and that, in order to progress in the afterlife, they have to live it too.  That gives them some very powerful incentives to ignore any drawbacks they see.

 

I remember when Christine was participating in a panel that her aunt, Kristyn Decker, was on also.  Her aunt eventually left polygamy and wrote a book "Fifty Years In Polygamy".  Christine insisted that her aunt was just married to a bad man.  She just won't hear that there might be something wrong with the institution of polygamy or her religion.

 

So, while I think they might see that all is not well, they just push it to the backs of their minds and don't think about it.

[kassa]

I paused my tivo at one point and when I came back took a good look at the screen.  The image was one of the early photos (wedding photo?) of Meri, Kody and Janelle, and over it was a banner “Is my husband gay?”  Apparently this was a promotion for another show on the network, but the timing could not have been better!

 

Janelle's honesty re: her mortification at Kody and her sister wives' boisterous outbursts.  I relate to Janelle more than any of these poor women.  Kudos to her for refusing to participate in the ridiculous dance routine.

 

 

I’m of two minds – I definitely recognize the “no, don’t make me do that!” panicky feeling, with people trying to coax you into something and wanting to flee.  However, she didn’t have a problem doing the video.  So she could have come up with a dance compromise – walk in at some point, deadpan, hit a triangle, and walk back out. That would be funny and not require her to make a fool of herself.  You know, beyond the whole marriage to Kody thing.

 

I don’t think Maddie suddenly got happy in Las Vegas.  I think she used her desire to get the fuck out of Vegas as the impetus to do whatever would get her the best and quickest way out.  Activities to impress colleges, good grades, etc. for scholarships.  I think she decided she was on her own and what she made of her life was up to her, so she might as well start now.  Of course that’s a form of maturity, but a far cry from the “golly, I think I’ll join student council and not be a sad sack anymore” storyline her parents are telling themselves. She made it happen and good for her. (I'm open to the theory posted above that Janelle instilled that drive to get out in her older children)

 

So 5 kids have now moved out. The 4 large houses are emptying out pretty fast. If they really do have mortgages, what a ridiculous waste of money and space.

 

 

Interest only loans.  They’ll abandon them in a year or two when it’s time to pay up or get out, and will have had the full use of them for several years.  They’ll declare victory and go back to their house in Utah with many fewer children. And possibly one less wife, if Janelle gets a job and can support whatever minor children she has left at that point.   I don’t know what Janelle believes, religiously, any more, but I do think she truly loves him, more’s the pity.  That doesn’t mean she wouldn’t leave and see him on the side.  
 

She has enough education and job skills that she could leave again if she wanted. She only has 4 kids left at home, and Kody would have to pay some kind of child support.

 

 

Is he listed as the father on the obligatory forms, or is father “unknown”?  Presumably she would qualify for more benefits as a single mother.  That’s how I assumed they rolled.

 

[RedheadZombie]

Not that I don't agree that Janelle went trolling for Kody, but wasn't it Meri that pushed for polygamy with him in the first place?  That's what I remember reading and hearing on the show.  So technically, she asked for it and it wasn't like Janelle engineered the whole idea herself.  I thought Janelle knew at that point that they were open to adding another sister wife to their marriage and she was just throwing her hat in the ring very outwardly.  And by responding to it, Kody was doing what Meri wanted him to do.  So I don't see Janelle as a big villain either.  What I do see as villainous is Meri asking for a polygamous relationship and then acting like a complete bitch all territorial and making Janelle feel like the odd person out and second class citizen.  Obviously she wasn't willing to walk the walk and let her jealousy take control.  That I will never be able to forgive her for until I hear out of her mouth that she is genuinely sorry for it.  As much as I get down on the Williams women, at least Pauli has publicly said that she never meant to make Rosemary feel bad.  Even if she's being less than sincere, she has taken responsibility for it to some degree.  Where Meri is concerned I don't remember ever hearing her adequately acknowledge or validate Janelle's feelings about what happened when they were younger, and I doubt that she has opened up to Janelle about it either.  Because of that I don't blame Janelle for in some sense never getting over it and don't think she is grinding any old axes that should be buried.

 

I look at the situation a little differently.  Janelle has always said these issues were early in the marriage.  She's never even implied that the problem is ongoing.  Meri has apologized over and over, and has not made excuses for her behavior.  Janelle has said she was cruel as well.  Paulie Williams is a different story.  According to Rosemary, Paulie has purposely preyed on her over the years, and deliberately calls Brady away on Rosemary's nights - we saw her attempt to do it on camera.  Paulie says she's sorry, but in a dulcet trembling voice that implies - you misunderstood because you're so insecure.  Paulie never admitted to doing anything, so it was a non-apology apology.

 

I think part of the problem between Janelle and Meri would have occurred if they were college roommates, and not competing for the same male.  Meri is anal, bossy, and very neat, but also somewhat extroverted and touchy-feely.  Janelle is introverted and comes off as very stand-offish.  Her house is often messy, and I've never seen her touching someone else's child.  We've seen the other three wives loving on someone else's kids, but not Janelle.  She might be the type of woman who only loves children when they're hers.  I can see Meri just naturally bestowing physical affection on Kody, and Janelle allowing it to intimidate her away.  The Brown family is very strange in that way, unlike the Williams and Darger family. 

 

I think that tone was set with the first two wives.  So Meri let Janelle know that this is how we do the dishes, and this is how we fold the laundry (meaning do it like me), and Janelle eventually retaliates by rubbing her incredible fertility in Meri's face.  I used to think Janelle and Christine were really tight, but it looks more and more as if Janelle joined forces with the new girl to gang up on Meri.  I now understand why Meri wanted a fourth that she could be close to.

[MarysWetBar]

I wondered if anyone else was driven crazy by this!!!

Don't get me wrong, this family doesn't need any more children. However, I don't get why Robin's excessively busy, heavy workload precludes another pregnancy? (Not that i actually buy that she works even forty hours a week.) Plenty of us have had children while working 10 to 12 hours a day five or six days a week. Oh, that's right, Robyn is SPECIAL.

Oh i hate the look of those lash extensions.I don't get it cus they aren't attractive on anyone. They are always going in six directions and there are always ultralong ones randomly sticking out.

[ghoulina]

Speaking of the older kids moving out - does anyone know the current story with Aspyn? I cannot remember. I know that Logan goes to UNLV and lives on campus. Or did....didn't they show him getting an off-campus place with some friends last year? Either way, I know he definitely fled the plyg sac. Mariah and Maddie - both went out of state to college. But where did Aspyn go again? And is she living outside the home? I only ask because I saw her in this week's episode, sitting in Truley's room with her mom, and she looked like she was in jammies or very casual clothing. Is she still living at home? I just hope she's able to focus on what she wants to do, and not continually sucked back into being the second parent around Christine's house. 

[Granny58]

"I guess the reality is that pretty much all men in polygamy are probably egomaniacs."   To my understanding (please anybody correct me if I'm wrong) it is the man who is saved and the wives only get to heaven by tagging along.  And he also gets his own planet.  It's very male-centered...so yeah, I think that would breed a huge ego in somebody susceptible to it.  I do know a lovely mainstream Mormon couple and though I think they have the same theology, he's not a dick about it.  As I said, if one is susceptible to it, it could be a power trip.  

 

3Girls - I agree with your mean streak comment.  Not abusive, but I think we've seen glimpses of profound petulance and I'll bet you he does something passive-aggressive to "get back at" the offender.  Just a vibe.